CD is one of the best

[Anonymous No.10062596]

or best Sonics and I'm tired to pretend it is not.
>le Wacky Workbench bad.
I refuse to believe a zoomie complaint like one of the last levels being kinda tricky is worth acknowledgement. like that's it? "I'm nearing the final level damn there's difficulty now". Plus, its use of two-paths is interesting, with navigateable blocks that pop up below,etc.
>le level design bad
This is so pseud it fails to even mean anything.
There are enemies and obstacles why do you care how the level looks? Sounds pseud to me.
Besides, the level design GOOD. It continues things that S1 did, like being a platformer centered on momentum with surreal places (its bonus level), by having platforming with more momentum mechanics like the pinballs and being even more surreal with the levels.
Its bosses have cool puzzle, it is kino. These are hallmarks of good design in every way. Sonic is not about going fast.
btw, the peel-out looks cool and lets you GO FAST. This makes it the BEST game since in 2/3 you can't go as fast, like aren't they sonic games? you got to go fast.
The only thing lacking is knuckles and 2p tails, but I hear they're adding characters so w.e.

[Anonymous No.10062604]

Well you see, the CD allowed them to create much larger and complex levels and they did, but if you don't know your way already through the levels then you're at a real risk of hitting that 10 minute time limit unlike any other 2D Sonic game.

Anons who hate Sonic CD and Sonic 1 just want Sonic games to be a case of "hold right on the D-pad to win" and ultimately just want the game to play itself, maybe with some opportunities to press jump to get over some bottomless pits to still feel like they're doing something, but in any case exploration is NOT what sold them on Sonic 2, 3, &K, having loops, corkscrews, springs and go faster plates that force the character through a level very quickly is plenty gameplay for them. It's kind of like jingle keys for Anons who don't have a sense of direction or the ability to memorise previously traversed paths.

[Anonymous No.10062623]

The level design is very vertical but this is unfortunately achieved through springs instead of Sonic's unique physics

[Anonymous No.10062646]

>>10062596
Wacky Workbench is just excessively frustrating.
It constantly throws you to the top of the screen if you miss a platform, and it's very easy to miss a platform when you have to make leaps of faith to get back down.
The top layers of those levels are designed to be traps.

It's like, you know the moving platforms at the heights of Green Hill Zone, that reward successful platforming by getting you to some monitors or lots of rings?
Wacky Workbench is like taking that, but making it a mandatory part of level progression.

[Anonymous No.10062653]

I just thought the signs were annoying as fuck. Trying to get good or bad or whatever is just too invasive to the experience of getting through the level. There are so many games to play, I don't see the fun in learning the levels to do all that shit with the good and bad outcomes for the worlds. I know it's added replay value but it's truly aimless and boring

[Anonymous No.10062657]

>>10062646
GHZ is the start of the game, WW is the end of the game. Asking why WW is harder and jumping through the same hoops as GHZ only rewards you with completing the level is incredibly, impossibly dumb.

Basically you're asking why the difficulty in Wacky Workbench isn't optional, implying that it should be as easy as GHZ if you want it to be.

[Anonymous No.10062669]

>>10062596
Yeah CD is good, shame it failed because its platform sucked. Sonic CD was the best selling game on the Sega CD and it still bombed. Sega really should have ported it to the Saturn to give the system a proper Sonic title and to give a larger audience a chance to play it, since it was always the least known classic sonic game.

[Anonymous No.10062705]

>>10062596
It is still my favorite SEGA CD game. The Special Stages are super fun, both soundtracks are superb (though I'm partial to the US one), and the race against Metal Sonic is unfortgetable. Most of the complaints I've heard either have something to do with the Time Travel mechanic or Wacky Workbench, which are both valid to be fair, but it's still a great game regardless. Maybe my favorite 2D Sonic at this point.

[Anonymous No.10062710]

>>10062596
It's probably the best SEGA CD game, though I wish people would also play other SEGA CD games to see that it's not just FMV games and memes. There's a lot of fantastic games on there. Feels like a more pure SEGA experience than Saturn imo

[Anonymous No.10062956]

>>10062657
to play devils advocate because i personally love cd i think what many sonic players expect from cd is a top path that allows them to mostly circumvent the crazy stage hazards if you have enough skill to go for it, which cd kinda has in some levels but not in a form as clear and defined as the other classic games where the top path is pretty much always the fastest

[Anonymous No.10062967]

Agreed. CD is one of the best Sonic games, period. Being able to travel back and forth between 4 different variations of every level adds tons of replayability that is unfortunately wasted on all the "gotta go fast" nerds. Getting the best ending this way is always a good time.

[Anonymous No.10064074]

>>10062596
CD is indeed one of the best.
I still prefer 2 and 3&K to it, if anything CD levels are often too short.

[Anonymous No.10064369]

It's a very unique game. Unfortunately, the typical Sonic fan does not like mazes in their hallway running simulators or physics when it doesn't allow them to break the level. The game has a couple low points, but overall, I'm glad that it exists.

[Anonymous No.10064372]

>>10064369
>or physics
That's the thing, where is the physics? CD is mainly springs and block platforming

[Anonymous No.10064403]

>>10064372
Collision Chaos and Stardust Speedway are rich with ramps and tons of spots for time travelling, more than any other zone in the Genesis games for sure. They're my favorite zones in the game. Tidal Tempest, Wacky Workbench and Metallic Madness (the later not always) are only blocky to complement their themes and make time travelling more challenging, the other 4 levels make up for it.

[Anonymous No.10064454]

>>10064403
>rich with ramps and tons of spots for time travelling
The thing is in other Sonic games you use the physics for traversal; in CD, you use springs to find halfpipes where you can then use the physics, allowing you to get to the robot generator by way of spring

[Anonymous No.10064712]

>Favorite game of all time gets praised instead of Shat at
Today is a blessed day

[Anonymous No.10064745]

I liked the first game way better, perhaps it's nostalgia, but I have my reasons to dislike Sonic CD. If you were alive in the 90s and early 00s, you should know how much hype Sonic CD had, since it was the "lost" Sonic game that many missed because they didn't have a Sega CD. When I finally emulated it, I was dissatisfied with the amount of slowdown and how the level design was all over the place, as if they wanted to cram as much stuff as possible.

The time travel wasn't to my liking either. There was no reason to go to the future, there should've been only "past" plates, and in act 3 you would see which future you got depending on your deeds. Travelling when you didn't want because the plate stuck on you was most unfortunate. I'd rather have better control of when or if I wanted to travel.

Anyway, it's not a bad game. It just didn't click with me. I like Sonic 1 and 2 a lot... And that's it. Only two games, but what can I do after all?

[Anonymous No.10064932]

>>10064745
I played the remastered version recently, with the time travel overhaul, and enjoyed it quite a bit. It gets rid of all the sign-related frustrations, making the levels actually fun to explore. Might be too easy, since now the future signs don't even have a purpose as an obstacle, but fuck it, it's still far better this way. Even having the non-shitty spindash turns exploration from a chore to something fun.

[Anonymous No.10065170]

>>10062956
The reason why they expect that is likely because of Sonic 2, as Sonic 1 didn't have that set in stone yet and only had it in Green Hill and arguably Starlight. I understand why they see it that way, but to knock the game down over this is not fair, as it went in a different direction.
>>10064745
The level design, despite being incoherent to a new player, is probably the most coherent of any 2D Sonic once you learn it (aside from maybe some Sonic 1 stages). I haven't played the game in a while and I still remember the routes for getting the good future in almost every stage. Games like Sonic 2 or 3 do a better job at directing the player towards where to go, but many of their stages are really hard to memorize, particularly Sonic 3 which has stages so big and bloated that sometimes it loses any sort of coherency. Even Wacky Workbench, as annoying as it seems, can be beaten consistently quickly.

The Future plates exist because both the bad and good future are unique in their own way. I am pretty sure that aside from the visuals and broken versions of enemies, the bad future also has some unique gimmicks and segments exclusive to it, same for the good future. I think Tidal Tempest was a good example of that. Aside from that, they're also an obstacle if you haven't destroyed the generator and hologram in the past, but they aren't a very good obstacle so they are sort of pointless if you look at them like that.

[Anonymous No.10065174]

>>10062657
I don't refute that later stages of a game shouldn't be more challenging or more difficult.
Wacky Workbench is just frustrating in its execution and isn't on a good curve. It has too much push-back compared to Metallic Madness which is better executed in its placement of hazards and navigating them.

To give a similar example, in Chakan there's a fire elemental plane level, that involves hopping from platform to platform in a lake of lava. Missing one jump is a big setback as it forces you to restart the entire level, and the platforms are also unreliable to land on. It's the same kind of frustration that is more disruptive than it is challenging.
These jumps aren't blind though, they often are in Wacky Workbench due to the verticality of the stage, and the difficulty in judging the movement of the platforms to jump onto.

One of the worst things you can do to players it take away their feeling of control. That should never been justified as "challenge" such as a punishment for failing a challenge.

[Anonymous No.10065181]

>>10062596
Damn I literally just finished a playthrough and was about to make a very similar thread. It was great, I have so much to say.
I played the game on the Gamecube collection years ago and I didn't care for it at the time. I'm going through all if the games right now and I just finished CD and it was such a blast from start to end. It literally takes everything that's great about Sonic 1 and cranks it up to 10 and then adds some great ideas on top of that. And speaking of great ideas, there are some neat ideas in this game that we never saw again afterwards which is a shame.
I think the Gamecube version had the US soundtrack? I remember thinking it was bad when I played it. But I just played with the original soundtrack and wow it's awesome. I love the music for Tidal Tempest, Quarts Quadrant, and Stardust Speedway.
Did you know that the opening music was written by Yuzo Koshiro for the Master System/Game Gear version of Sonic 1?

The people who don't like this game are probably the same people who get filtered by Marble Zone in Sonic 1. I love the diversity in play style between the levels. I love Sonic 2 and 3 as well and I love their style of gameplay, but the stop-and-go play style of 1 and CD feels more like proper platforming and I really like it. That would probably explain why my favorite levels in Sonic 2 and 3 are the ones that a lot of people seem to hate (Lava Reef, the desert one that I can't remember the name of with the ghosts, Metropolis Zone, etc).

I just don't understand why the game wasn't included in Sonic Jam. Has there ever been any mention regarding that?

[Anonymous No.10065441]

>>10065181
They rebuilt all the games from the ground up in Jam, presumably they could've thrown in Sonic CD or just ported that instead but decided not to. And then for whatever reason it wasn't in Mega Collection either but Ristar was. We had to wait until 2005 to actually play it on a console again.

[Anonymous No.10065558]

>>10064745
>There was no reason to go to the future
I see this often mentioned when discussing this game and don’t know why. The levels are designed to be more or less difficult depending on the time period you’re in, with the bad future being the hardest rendition of a level and the good future being the easiest. Getting the good future earns you a safe passage through the rest of the level while being reckless and going to the bad future (which is easier since future signposts are less hidden) is punishing. Of course it’s all optional and you can choose any path for any reason, but that’s the intended takeaway.

[Anonymous No.10065580]

I like this pretentious implication that getting to the end of the level isn't the main goal in a 2D platforming game. It takes a true midwit to believe that getting good endings doesn't clash with the normal sonic gameplay at all. It's a good game but there's absolutely nothing to get up on a high horse about here

[Anonymous No.10065594]

>>10065580
You call it pretentious and I call it an evolutionary need to conquer. If we all had the same philosophy as you, we'd be swinging on vines instead of using electronics

[Anonymous No.10065603]

>>10065594
Holy shit I was right on target with midwit. I like the game though if it makes you feel better. It's just gimmicky

[Anonymous No.10065607]

>>10065594
The hell? It’s a weird mechanic and is crazy clunky. Instead of making these weird ass alternate stages they could’ve just had different acts or something. It’s clunky as hell. How can someone be this up their own ass about Sonic CD

[Anonymous No.10065631]

>>10065603
>>10065607
No Protestant Work Ethic. I don't even like Sonic CD but the appeal is obvious

[Anonymous No.10065632]

>>10062596
It's a great game once you learn it, but therein lies the problems:
1. If you don't read a manual, you have no idea what the time travel mechanic is all about. This is incredibly disorienting.
2. It's easy to fuck yourself due to the verticality of the level design.

[Anonymous No.10065673]

>>10065631
You don't even know what the fuck you're talking about you're, just in here schizo posting for no reason. Put down the pipe Jamal and play some sonic CD, maybe come back to the thread once you've finished it

[Anonymous No.10065686]

>>10065603
>bad taste
>self-congratulatory, low IQ babble
Name a more iconic duo.

[Anonymous No.10065687]

>>10065673
404 Protestant Work Ethic not found

[Anonymous No.10065689]

>>10062604
>if you don't know your way already through the levels then you're at a real risk of hitting that 10 minute time limit
What? Never in my life has this been a real risk in sonic cd, and I only play it like once every few years so I definitely don't know the level layouts

>unlike any other 2D Sonic game.
t. never played S3&K

[Anonymous No.10065690]

>>10065580
>normal sonic gameplay at all
"Normal" Sonic gameplay is kinda shit. They should've made more obvious that you did NOT beat the game if you didn't get the good ending. They should've straight up locked you on the level until you got the generator plus a better save feature.

[Anonymous No.10065705]

>>10065686
Go on and tell me all about how the gimmick that shows off Sega CD audio is a total game changer for sonic, smart guy

[Anonymous No.10065715]

>>10065705
Your point?

[Anonymous No.10065730]

>>10062596
>Wacky Workbench bad is a zoomie complaint
Oh fuck off, that complaint is literally as old as Sonic-CulT. Thanks for helping to make "zoomie" lose all meaning though.

[Anonymous No.10065742]

>>10065730
Yeah Wacky Workbench's level design has always been a valid complaint imo, it is the single level that pretty much forces you to take the bottom path

[Anonymous No.10066046]

>>10065715
That "Toot-toot Warrior" is better than "Sonic Boom".

[Anonymous No.10066064]

>>10065580
>It takes a true midwit to believe that getting good endings doesn't clash with the normal sonic gameplay at all
Literally all of the classic Sonic games have a good and bad ending. Getting the good ending in Sonic 1-3 requires finishing the game with all of the chaos emeralds by collecting them in the special stages. To get a good ending in Sonic CD you have to collect all of the time stones which you collect in the UFO special stages.
It's literally exactly the same as all of the other classic Sonic games.

[Anonymous No.10066215]

>>10065558
The bad future was never that bad, it was always the past version that was the hard version. Bad future was always filled with broken enemies who didn't have all their attacks.

[Anonymous No.10066223]

>>10066215
Bad futures do tend to compensate by having more traps and environmental obstacles tho iirc

[Anonymous No.10066235]

>>10062604

Nigg, what are you talking about. You can finish most of CD levels under 30 sec without any special speedrunning training. That's one of the problems of this game: without exploring and time travelling for good ending, levels are very short.

[Anonymous No.10066385]

>>10065558
The levels are like 30 seconds long and really easy. Going out of your way to travel to the good future is infinitely harder than just traversing the level normally.

[Anonymous No.10067206]

>>10066385
I think we both know you’ve never beaten a single level of this game in 30 seconds.

[Anonymous No.10067259]

I love classic Sonic