/vr/ - Retro Games

The first pride month approved console, and you’re customer zero OP

>>9955016
Bing bing wagotta go fast.

>>9955016

>>9955016
You would have a very powerful console with extremely fast CPU, high resolution and vivid colour, sharp and crisp audio, which developers would find a joy to work with. And then you would have the SNES part of the board.

>>9955068
Pretty much this.

>>9955016
Hyperblastprocessing

>>9955068
kek

>>9955016
It would be difficult to program for.

>>9955068
weird joke to make at the expense of a console that could produce something other than farts, burps and a color palette consisting of more than brown, teal, salmon pink and green

>>9955016
Nothing, good games is what made both systems

>>9955138
We're not talking about old PCs CGA displayed games.

>>9955068
Hilarious joke! Here's your (you)! Got any more to tell?

>>9955292
Sure, here's a joke:
>2.68 mhz
>in 1990
What a fucking joke indeed.

>>9955431
Got anymore faggot?

>>9955439
You sound upset. Did I hurt you're feelings? Sorry, this is not a tendie safe space, we are allowed to criticise you're golden idol Nintendo here.

>>9955016
You'd have a neo geo or a PC FX.
But with a bunch of redundant parts that serve no purpose.

>>9955016
Assuming that "combining components" means taking the best features from each system, the closest thing I could think of would be a Genesis with hardware scaling and rotation and the increased color palette of the SNES, so the end result would likely be an improved Genesis.

9955445
So we're allowed to criticize your recurrent spamming, this is not your safe space for shitposting.

>>9955539
If super metroid looked like this I would never play it. Take your zoomer shit to another board.

>>9955562
Confirmed upset. Go play some real games sometime.
>>9955553
Indeed, though that could easily be achieved without SNES hardware, the Mega Drive being plenty fast enough to perform scaling and rotation in software, if they simply added 64 extra kbs of VRAM, then it's DMA speed and bandwidth would double, thus allowing for those effects and many more which cannot be concieved on the SNES, to be done at 60 fps. The VDP also has the ability to have more CRAM to allow for more colours, Sega was just cheap. So, it would be quite easy to have a massive improvement that would never leave one wanting for an SNES, with stock Mega Drive hardware.

>>9955583
>Go play some real games sometime.
Not him but I have. I've been playing A Link to the Past, and before that I was playing through the Golden Axe games, I still need to beat 3 though. I'm still not sure if 2 is an improvement over 1.

>>9955553
You mean the 32X CD.

Guy! I’m going to continue my save from the game Nightshade for the nes. I’ll go back to snes/Genesis later, but this bullshit point & click detective game of Nightshade is really fun.

>>9955564
Nobody asked, faggot

>>9955583
You should Google this thing called the sega CD

>>9955693
cool story bro

>>9955583
>The VDP also has the ability to have more CRAM to allow for more colours

how much CRAM was there? cant find a spec that lists it, only reference for YM7101 ram is 64k

>>9955689
Close to what I described but I was thinking of a cartridge only system, and in practice, 32X CD games were all CD games which only used the increased color output of the 32X side.

>>9955796
You can make a cartridge that uses the sega cd hardware. Paprium did it

>hyperthetically

>>9955445
>hurt you're feelings

>>9955016
>Hyperthetically

>>9955445
No, you're just a miserable faggot who is contributing nothing to the thread with your unfunny console war shit. Fuck off to /v/.

>>9955138
>>9955292
>>9955439
>>9956284
asspain

>>9955445
You look angrily gay when you unironically post that, you know?

>>9955694
I'm asking you to stop being a faggot that thinks indie pixel shit looks good.

>>9955439
Imagine calling another man a faggot because he stated the specs of a Nintendo console.

>>9955590
Alttp blows. If you must play a zelda game check out zelda 2 or 1. And Golden Axe 1 is best golden axe.

Super A'Can entered chat

>>9955016
Genesis doesnt have much of an advantage besides a stronger cpu.
The gpu and sound of the SNES is superior where it matters.
Snes could fall back to custom chips in the cart to aid the cpu, but an ideal system would be a snes with a better cpu and perhaps a 320px wide graphics mode.

>>9956329
I will take the bait one last time. No retard the problem isn't "stating the specs of a Nintendo console" or being butthurt that me a tendie (I'm not) is having their golden cow defiled.

It's the way this faggot stated how underpowered the SNES was compared to the Genesis that discouraged genuine discussion. Other anons in the thread has made their point about how the Genesis was the superior console outside of being able to scale graphics and having an inferior color palette in a way that does not cause a console war or a retarded chain of (you) flinging.

btw pretending to be retarded is way worse than actually being retarded.

>>9956335
Nah, revenge is better

>>9955735
You probably won't find it. Like most consoles CRAM isn't really a thing, it's just a block of palette registers. number_of_bytes_per_color*num_colors_in_palette*num_palettes
What the person you replied to is talking about is that the VDP has a pin that when asserted causes the VDP to pull color data from an external source. So you still have limitations because internally the VDP is still using the same data formats, but through the use of an external color generator you can make the palettes you have access to richer. Where the VDP default is a hard coded set of 512 colors of which you can have 61 colors on screen, with an external provider you can have in theory billions of colors of which you can have 61 on screen.
SEGA's arcade boards that used the Mega Drive VDP had this functionality enabled and that's why they have much better color. It's not a simple case of adding more "CRAM", you need a color generator chip that is programmed separately that has its own source of palette data registers.

>>9955431
3.58MHz.
2.68MHz was when the CPU was accessing slowrom which existed as a cost cutting measure for companies wanting to save money on the carts. Just like the GBA, you shouldn't execute code from slowroms because you're gimping the CPU for no reason. You should be copying code from slowrom to RAM and executing it from there. Sadly far too many devs in the 90s were lazy, incompetent or had the rug pulled out from under them where they developed all the code for fastrom and then the publisher said "oh by the way, we're using slowroms to save money" like 2 weeks before release and they couldn't afford to rework the code.
The Genesis was similarly gimped. The 68k ran at 7MHz but the bus width was wrong and so accessing ROM or RAM was slower than it should be. The reason 68K code runs faster is a combination of better instruction set and more registers. The 68K when used in higher end workstation computers is not the 68K in the Genesis which was a cost reduced version with limitations that the 7MHz clock speed only partially made up for.

>>9955016
I've wanted to somehow make a circuit to combine the video like the supegrafx does to make a game that has the best of both. I think you could get very similar to the quality of castlevania symphony of the night. For fighting games you can make one console do the characters and the other the backgrounds.

If you could upgrade vram of either consoles to 512k you could have graphics similar to the cps2 but with less processing power and resolution still.

>>9955539
PC FX has big potential for homebrew. Neo geo could have better animations in a lot of games but it just takes so long to create all the sprites.

>>9955583
I don't think scaling and rotation is really necessary, even a lot of saturn and ps1 2D games do don't it.
PC video cards had 256k but they cost over $400 in the late 80s, megadrive would have been real nice is the expansion supported more vram.

>>9956403
>I don't think scaling and rotation is really necessary, even a lot of saturn and ps1 2D games do don't it.
I pretty much agree. In the 80s/90s scaling and rotation of sprites was special because it was so hard to do at good speed. It was a technical showcase if you got your 80s microcomputer to do such fancy effects. Once hardware that could do it became commonplace we kinda decided that we didn't like the way it trashes the fine pixel artwork. It's even worse on modern indie games where the higher resolution pixel grid leads to them doing "mixels" (differently sized pixels) and "rixels" (pixels rotated as actual squares rather than fitted to a low-res pixel grid.)

>>9955068
>>9955431
>>9955445
Hey britbong, please piss off
https://varishangout.com/index.php?threads/the-video-game-preservation-retro-windows-community.1305/#post-12650

>>9956403
>I don't think scaling and rotation is really necessary
Thise mode 7 bosses show you are right, they are there because its technically possible, not because it adds something.

Only place where sprite scaling is good is the pseudo 3d like outrun or space harrier, but those are a limited type of games as well.

Genesis would've benefited the most from more colors on screen, bigger color pallete and a controller with more buttons.

>>9956351
> sound of the SNES is superior
Only for 80+ year olds who have lost most of their hearing. The muffled sound of the SNES is quite painful for people with normal hearing.

>>9956541
>muffled
Oh look, it’s this anon again

>>9956351
You're forgetting that the Genesis has an extra CPU the Zilog Z80 which was primarily used as a way to control the sound hardware but could also potentially be used in a variety of ways
It also has the SMS PSG soundchip on it too

I wouldn't say the SNES is superior in terms on sound, just different.
Also despite the superior PPU SNES games had lower resolution at 256x224 compared to most Genesis games being 320x224

>Snes could fall back to custom chips in the cart to aid the cpu
So could the Genesis
The SVP was an example that of that

A SNES/Genesis fusion would be amazing and in the right hands you could make amazing games with it

>>9956403
>combine the video like the supegrafx does
Wut?

>>9956308
You have no taste and everyone hates you

>thread dies after >>9956470 is posted
Hmmm

>>9956335
I like all three Zelda games for different reasons.

>>9956621
Its quite amazing how the two platforms can trade blows so much.

Genesis has stronger cpu, 320px wide resolution and is generally much easier to develop for.

Snes has a weak cpu with a stronger ppu (but lacks 320px) with its higher color depth, more background layers and mode 7 (games that make good use of it are better off with it, mostly racers. Just compare steeet racer between the two platforms)
But in general it's harder to develop for.

I'm still willing to give the sound advantage to the snes, due to ease of development for that part at least, making most commercial titles sound better on the snes.

>>9956976
Who the hell is that? I thank God I’m not enough of a freak to obsess over that website holy shit

>>9956352
Instead of acting like a passive aggressive faggot maybe you could have stated why the genesis sucks or why the SNES doesn't suck, hell you could even make a funny meme for your point.
Instead you acted like a bitch and let some random anon walk all over you.
I think picrel is more your speed kiddo.

>>9955695
The Mega CD neither adds more DMA bandwidth and speed as I described, nor does it expand the colour capabilities.
>>9956284
>>9956352
>c-c-c-CONSOLE WARRIOR!!! muh DISCUSSION!!!
The premise for this discussion is idiotic. The Mega Drive was already categorically better than the SNES from a hardware perspective. Why would you want to ruin that by bolting on a bunch of bottlenecked SNES hardwares? A much more legitimate idea is to simply expand the Mega Drive hardware, which it easily accommodates.
>>9956391
Many misconceptions, 3.58 mhz is only what is allowed when using the cartridge fastROM expansion, it does not count as stock hardware, additionally, the SNES is incapable running code from RAM at 3.58 mhz, as the RAM, like the rest of the stock system, is capable only 2.68 mhz, and finally, the 68000 found in the Mega Drive is completely regular, the exact same variant found in other 68000 based hardwares such as the Neo Geo, X68000, and Amiga, it is not a cost reduced version nor limited in any way aside from it's relative clock speed.
>>9956549
>SNES 32 khz
>Mega Drive 52 khz
>TWICE the sample rate
It's muffled as shit.
>>9957021
>stronger PPU
Not with the litany of bottlenecks it suffers, which include many limitations on sprites, lower quality colour DAC that struggles with vivid and saturation, and lower resolution. The more one investigates, the more one finds the Mega Drive dealing blows, and the SNES receiving them.
>>9956470
>>9956976
>>9957058
I don't know who this is, but it's funny that pointing out the deficiencies of the SNES hardware makes these people so upset that they leap through these hoops for me.

>>9957090
Both consoles are good. Both have good games. Hardware doesn't matter, the games do.

>>9957153
>Hyperthetically, if you were to combine the components of the Sega Megadrive and Nintendo SNES on to one board what would the system be capable of?
Why the fuck are you in this thread then? That isn't even correct anyway, as the Mega Drive's superior hardware enabled games that the SNES could only dream, pic related. This is why more are waking up to that the Mega Drive's library far outclasses what was on offer on the SNES.

>>9957171
You just ousted yourself as a console warrior with this comment, good job, smartboy.

>>9955016
I personally prefer the FM chip of the Genesis to the SNES's PCM sampler. I would love to hear some of the iconic snes soundtracks on the genesis's hardware

>>9957090
The SNES's cpu might have been slowest in terms of Mhz, but it was also more efficient per clock-cycle. It took developers a while to learn how to take advantage of this. Later SNES games were pretty competitive performance-wise. Though not regarded as a shmup system, it did have games such as Super Aleste (AKA Space Megaforce) which is just as busy, smooth and fast as anything you'd find on a Genesis

As for the SNES's ppu, it can display more background layers, display more colors on screen from a bigger overall color palette and supports actual translucency.

And yet you are claiming its strongly inferior to the Genesis.
You keep talking about bottlebecks in the ppu that do not show in actual games.

>>9957090
>muh chip potential
Fuck I hate this person

>>9957350
90% of the best games for the SNES use the enhancement chips for a reason. It has shit performence otherwise.

>>9957435
Nah

>>9957435
Mario Kart uses the fx chip?

>>9955068
Lmao. Kek

>>9957495
Mario Kart uses the DSP-1 chip.
>>9957350
>more efficient per clock-cycle
When will this myth die? No, it was actually WORSE in a per clock basis, when you look at which instructions are actually useful. The Mega Drive, thanks it's 16 general purpose registers, compared the SNES mere 3, could easily perform data migration and arithmetics in as little as 4 clocks, whereas on the SNES, in order to achieve the same operations, takes at least 5 clocks, this in addition to the THREE TIMES faster clock rate, it becomes very apparent very quickly why the Mega Drive is so easily able to run utter circles around the SNES.
>Super Aleste
Tons of dead air, very little enemy variety, and it's still a flickering mess. Not impressive compared MUSHA Aleste.
>You keep talking about bottlebecks in the ppu that do not show in actual games.
On the contrary, the bottlenecks severely limit the sorts of games that can be done on the SNES, the numerous bottlenecks actually being the cause of there being no beat them up's even remotely to the same league as the Mega Drive's Streets of Rage 2, Paprium, or many others that have several times more enemies than you ever saw on SNES games in the genre.

>>9957594
>Paprium
Huh?

Look, we know the SNES is hard to develop for, but so was the PS1 and PS2 and they still killed the competition

>>9957021
>I'm still willing to give the sound advantage to the snes, due to ease of development for that part at least, making most commercial titles sound better on the snes
That's mostly due to most western Genesis games using the GEMS sound driver instead of SMPS
You could make good music with the GEMS sound driver but you'd have to put in a lot of work

>>9957090
>Mega Drive 52 khz
>TWICE the sample rate
I don't know why you always say this
Pretty sure no audio system out there can accept 52 khz

>>9957792
pretty sure it's irrelevant anyway as both SNES and MD output 16khz and increasing that makes majority of games sound like shit

>>9957090
When it comes to good games, yep your Genesis blows cos the SNES was receiving them. Better let your buddies at Sega know quickly, before they go broke and stop making technically superior consoles. Whoopsie.

finished your aneurysm console warring faggot? I made this shit up cos you seem to love seething and talking shit

>>9955016
If only life were that simple anon. I imagine the console would be so expensive nobody would buy it and the game industry would become a black hole large enough to leave a shadow sized gap in our corner of the milky-way. But that's just a guess

the saturn so it would be shit

>>9957594
>16 general purpose registers
This really makes a big difference in anything but trivial code. The SNES cpu might have a slight edge moving bytes around, but the 68000 crushes it for anything more complex.

>>9957971
the only bad SEGA console was the 32x

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hOhOl5XdWI

>>9957350
>The SNES's cpu might have been slowest in terms of Mhz, but it was also more efficient per clock-cycle. It took developers a while to learn how to take advantage of this.
t.youtube

>>9957072
I will accept the bugs.

>>9958001
Sounds like fucking garbage. Why was the SNES so soulless?

>>9958001
That’s shit, here’s a better one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Qmm-c1cic8

>>9956375
>Where the VDP default is a hard coded set of 512 colors of which you can have 61 colors on screen, with an external provider you can have in theory billions of colors of which you can have 61 on screen.

thats what was thought. So, no, infact the genesis is hard limited with its video output, no matter how much you beef it up.

>>9956426
no, it was still super helpful if it was in the toolkit because you saved the memory of having to draw a rotating sprite. Thats why mode7 was great, not because the genesis couldn't do it in some situations, but because you get an entire layer of sprites you can rotate for almost no cost. in fact, the way it was used in Wing Commander was really resourceful.

but agreement on rixels in indie games, only thing worse is particle effects at even higher rez than the rest of the assets. That really pissed me off in CvSNK2


>>9956621
>I wouldn't say the SNES is superior in terms on sound, just different.
once the samples and program were loaded in, the whole subsystem ran with no cpu utilization, and had DSP effects available also for free

>>9957171
and yet despite the headstart of the Genesis by years, the more commercially successful system had many smash unique titles that had no parallels, and the best reply to that is 'yeah well the Genesis COULD have done that, too."

>>9958223
>snes sold more so it's better

>>9957785
>>9957278

yeah but FM synthesis might as well be an artform all on its own.

>>9957792
thats because its not really a sample rate that compares to the resolution of sampled audio playback; ie they are referring to 2 different things in sound design. but its kind of a mouthful to explain it clearly to people.

>>9958000
>t. Doesn't know Sega history
>>9958229
Sure it doesn't always work that way but usually...
>>9955042
This sums up the quality and content of this thread rather elegantly.

>>9955445
Based.

>>9958683
>t. Doesn't know Sega history
Enlighten me then

>>9958697
OK you want to play dumb?

These ones are contentious and I don't want to read you coping all day about unreliable, poorly made Genesis 2, Sega CD, Dreamcast, Game gear and Master System 2 because... muh games

The Sg1000 was genuinely bad. Not because of poor hardware specs or even (subjectively) the games, but an absolute bonehead decision to hardwire the retarded, Tandy-tier joystick.

A

>>9958683
>but usually
Master system also outsold nes in certain regions. Same with Saturn outselling n64.

>>9956362
Not according to the game jew. For whatever reason i can recall him singing about it "don't play this game. Don't play this game".

>>9956470
No one has the time to read this link.

>>9958746
nta you're coping to, but holy retarded reddits!

Is there some technical reason why you couldn't just make a SNES that used a 68k instead? That honestly sounds like the best of both worlds, not counting addons/3d chips.

>>9959346
A 68000 would hardly help if it was only clocked at 2.68 mhz. In order for the SNES to achieve any kind of performance, the entire bus would have to be redesigned to accommodate at least 7 mhz, and, at that point, you just have a Mega Drive.

>>9959415
Not if you're using the SNES VDP and sound chip. That gives you a huge advantage in the palette department, and arguably the sound department as well.

>>9959418
>That gives you a huge advantage in the palette department
"Palette" is the only advantage that gives you, whilst completely circumcising you're abilities for sprite management and resolution, not to mention the tenuous advantage with colour when the SNES low quality colour DAC has such a struggle with vivid and saturation compared the Mega Drive.
>arguably the sound department
"Arguably" indeed.

>>9959340
>zero possibility to refute evidence contravening your bullshit
>ad homeneim!
Do you always fold this way in the face of fact?

>>9958805
In spite of how my reply came off, I think at least the MS deserved better. Both those consoles had decent games and some hardware merit. Both were outclassed in some way by the victor of their respective generations though.

>>9959346
Unfortunately its not that simple. Nintendo was definitely sticking to the CPU it had because of existing familiarity with NES, at the very least and possibly for backward compatibility that didn't eventuate (just speculating) without diving into the differences in actual architecture that may have caused issues

>>9959441
Having actually worked with the Genesis' colors, having extra shades of colors would be an enormous help, especially when you're trying to make white skin.