/vr/ - Retro Games

>>9935529
The boss battle in the first level of Battletoads was in second person.

Spider-Man had this "boss" with a similar idea.

>>9935529
To me second person games are just another way of referring to a sidescroller/beltscroller, while third person is 3D

>>9935594
but that's wrong

>>9935529
>How would you define this concept
Viewing the player character from the perspective of another in-universe entity, and not through an ethereal camera.
Super Mario 64 probably does this in the most literal way.

>>9935610
Can't be, I'm always right

>>9935536
>>9935565
So is a "2nd person game" one in which the players see the game from the point of view of a character different than the one they control ? That would make SM64 the preeminent example of this concept, though of course you kind of control Lakitu as well somewhat.

>>9935654
>>9935659
Why isn't the view swaying like the camera

>>9935665
Software-based stabilization, like in IG's Hyperlapse. Koopa tech was ahead of its time

>>9935659
>from the point of view of a character different than the one they control
That's the best definition of second person I can think of in gaming.

is this 2nd person?

>>9935529
Siren, but even then its only partially 2nd person.

>>9936443
no this is second rate

>>9935529
>How would you define this concept
You don't.
It only works for literature.

>>9935529
retarded phoneposter second person has an actual definition it means (You)
>>9936583
this

>>9936583
>>9936624
You have to use a language they understand.

>>9935529
https://www.tiktok.com/discover/2nd-person-perspective-writing?lang=en

Here you go, bruh.
I got you.
You finna find a video that's straight bussin.
Then, you gon be an expert on 2nd person perspective, no cap.

>>9936624
>>9936734
Appropriately, projection is all about shuffling around grammatical persons till you end up with the story you want lol

>>9936583
Blame the choice to use First and Third person as a term in this context to begin with, since they don't really make sense anyway in an interactive narrative context: technically almost every game would be a "second-person game", since the unfolding narrative amounts to what YOU are doing. Otherwise if you're referring to visual point of view and not storytelling, why draw a parallel from linguistics at all if you can only partially match the elements that comprise it?

>>9936996
A game's narrative follows the actions of the character. You, as a player, are just tagging along. It's not you who's writing the book you're reading.

>>9937035
Not necessarily; plenty of games allow the player to drive the direction of the plot based on actions and choices, even if for some reason you don't consider the core tasks that the player needs to undertake to that make even a linear plot advance relevant at all. Not to mention that after all, literary "second person" narratives aren't written by the reader either.

>>9935659
You dumb fucking ESL faggot do you know what the term "SECOND PERSON" MEANS?

>>9935683
No, it isn't. It's literally wrong, if you're a native English speaker. And when I say "literally" I mean that literally.

>>9936583
>>9936583
>>9938158
stfu when you dunno whatya talking bout, kids

Night Trap? You're watching everything through security cameras.

>>9938158
Do ignorant self-absorbed idiots like you actually believe that grammatical persons are only relevant to the English language? I'm not sure about the ego entrenchment baseline to qualify for vocational ESL-policing so I'm actually asking unironically.

chase em up

>>9938219
But you are the chasee, not the chaser.

>>9938201
>Me ESL
Yeah, I know.

>>9938237
Good for you. A room temperature-approach to personal worth does sound convenient, in the short term at least.

>>9938292
>dripping with rage and seethe because it doesn't understand the English language
lmao
maybe you should have gotten an education instead of fixating on autistic video game trivia

>>9935529
>Any good examples?
The cop chase after the timer runs out in Thrasher Skate & Destroy on PS1, where you control the skater while looking through the eyes of cop. Strange no one has posted it yet, the game was pretty ahead of its time.

>>9938295
Yikes.

>>9935529
Chase camera. Crash is still in third person and not enough about these levels are changed to make them anything other than a platformer.

>>9935659
2nd person is from the perspective of someone in a story who is not the protagonist
3rd person is the audience or narrator.

>>9938161
Nope. You're wrong. Both figuratively and literally.

>>9938301
I do get what you're referring to (the clairvoyance puzzles in Psychonauts come to mind), but really calling that sort of thing or this >>9935659 "second person" gameplay seems a bit arbitrary, kind of snowballing the base problem described here >>9936996 which makes the "third person" term a bit dubious.

>>9938320
>streetshitter doesn't understand English
>entire education comes from video games
Embarrassing.

>>9935659
Second person refers to who you're talking to. So it'd be like seeing yourself from the perspective of a boss or some enemy you're engaging against. I don't think a game where the camera is exclusively locked to the enemy you're targeting exists (it must be someone you're actively interacting with, else it's just third person). It'd just be weird.

This reads like a /v/ thread.

>>9938364
I still think the notion is not separate enough from a simple third-person view game in which the "camera" may exist as a real in-universe entity (like Lakitu >>9935659) or not but that fact doesn't really affect gameplay. Something like this >>9938323 could make more sense as a truly separate style of gameplay, but I agree in that there's no particularly logical reason to call it 2nd person.

>>9938370
CRTs. Sovl. Zoomers, amirite. There, is that better?

>>9938329
You sure use a lot of green for somebody so white lol

The game Lifeline, for the PS2.
You don't control the the onscreen character - you see her through the cameras and you give her orders.

Psycho Mantis from MGS1 has a 2nd person perspective, if you press triangle.
One of the bosses from LoZ: Phantom Hourglass also lets you look at Link from the boss' eyes.
Battletoads, like said above.
Turtles in Time (SNES) has the Technodrome boss, which is Shredder looking at the Turtles. You have to throw enemies at the screen to damage him.
There's also the old Sandlot games for the PS2 (Robot Alchemic Drive, Remote Control Dandy SF), where you control various giant robots. You play as a character, and once you position yourself, you use a Remote Control to control the robot. Your character is still there, and you see the battle from his perspective, but you're controlling the robot.

>>9938184
>No argument
Get lost, retard.

>>9938135
Second person narrative in a book directly addresses you. In a game, it's addressing the character. Whatever choices you make in the game are actions that the story allows the character to take. In this manner, the narrative, the character and the player are separate entities and the latter is just an observer.
It's like being a spectator in a race - the drivers can only take the path(s) of the racetrack, while all you can really do is cheer them on. It's the driver's team leader who're telling him what to do.

>>9938483
But as a reader of a second-person literary narrative "you" don't really have personal agency really, you are just filling the role defined for you as a rhetoric tool to direct your engagement with the narrative in a particular way. Even if you argue that's not EXACTLY the same as in a videogame; it's difficult to drive the argument in any other direction than concluding that the specific (and often not that specific) form a videogame narrative takes is more conductive of the will of the audience and their (literal) input than a piece of prose.

>>9938640
>"you" don't really have personal agency
That's the thing. Even in sandbox games with multiple paths you can't really create a narrative that the devs themselves didn't allow in the game, otherwise you'd be writing and programming them yourself. It's not really inputting a narrative of your own so much as ending up in one of the "books" that narrate one of the what-if scenarios that the game has. They're just recounting events of the character's journey.

>>9938295
>maybe you should have gotten an education instead of fixating on autistic video game trivia

A monolingual retard insulting someone who speaks more languages than him. Only on 4chan do I see these types of "people"

>>9938393
...what?

>>9938329
>it cannot be done please do be stopping now
>I SAY STOP! YOU STOP BITCH I FUCK YOU!
Entering an ongoing discussion with the sole intent of shutting it down because it doesn't align with what you think you know and it makes you mad is unironically some of the most steet-shitting pseud behavior I've ever observed.
Wash your fucking hands.

Best second person game is Pac-Man 2 The New Adventures

>>9935529
Not retro but the best example is in Driver: San Francisco. There is a mission in which you are driving a car... viewed from the perspective of a driver in a different car. Very trippy at first, but manageable.