/vr/ - Retro Games

>>9883682
It's really not. Playing ToTK made me realize how good OoT is.

>>9883690
How is OoT good? Literally a puzzle game for 7 year olds.

Dunno. Never played it.

I like shooting shit with the Hookshot. I always keep that thing equipped.

Another quality thread on 4channel.org.
Truly a site only for the most brilliant thinkers of the internet. No other site can compete with these hard-hitting titans.

>>9883682
Here is you're problem. This is one of those games for the Nintendo cultists, it is safe to disregard.

My major problem with OoT is that it's not actually a puzzle game (as much as people say it is). Myst is a puzzle game. Monkey Island is a puzzle game. Those are games where you actually have to use your brain to find the solution to a thoughtful, creatively designed puzzle. Ocarina of Time "puzzles" by contrast are completely procedural. You walk into a room and see a button on the ground. The solution to the "puzzle" is immediately obvious by design: you have to hit the button. And so the puzzle itself ends up being a redundant waste of time.

I legitimately cannot for the life of me understand how people can actually enjoy this game design.

>>9883708
Try Breath if the Wild then. The Shrines have various ways to complete puzzles, making you use your smarts than making you feel smart.

>>9883708
The reality is most people don't like puzzles, unfortunately.
Zelda is a mixture of combat, exploration, puzzles, and socialising.
Basically, it's an all-rounder.
You could get better combat from Souls or DMC
You could get better exploration from Super Metroid
You could get better puzzles from Riven or Fire 'n' Ice
You could get better socialisation from basically any multiplayer game.
The idea is to blend all of these elements together to create something greater than the sum of its parts.

>>9883708
>My major problem with OoT is that it's not actually a puzzle game (as much as people say it is). Myst is a puzzle game. Monkey Island is a puzzle game. Those are games where you actually have to use your brain to find the solution to a thoughtful, creatively designed puzzle. Ocarina of Time "puzzles" by contrast are completely procedural. You walk into a room and see a button on the ground. The solution to the "puzzle" is immediately obvious by design: you have to hit the button. And so the puzzle itself ends up being a redundant waste of time.
That's really a misnomer, it doesn't have to puzzle you to be a puzzle, it just needs to engage you enough to make you utilize its mechanics and see through all of its various permutations. Eventually your skill set expands and you have to consider various skills in combination with each other to solve more complex puzzles, while collecting important items that assist you or some NPC outside the dungeons. The main character even sort of evolves from being an average Kokiri spelunker, to being a technician, to becoming a Hylian social insider capable of mediating between various groups. Dungeons in MM are a better example of how puzzles could scale upward as Link's identity and skillset becomes as complex and fractured as his timezone. And it's kinetic, animated puzzle-solving, not a point-and-click picture of people talking.

It's justly rated though.
And even without the historic context it's still an excellent game.

>>9883682
>le contrarian

>>9883682
>Why is it so massively overrated?
Emperors new clothes syndrome and a fanboy cult. This applies to nintendo in general and especially mario and zelda. The fact is they are not very innovative, original and are usually low tier technically at the time of release and the hardware they run on is relative to other systems bottom tier, cheap to make and not that good. For example, Mario was not anything special, its just a side scolling platformer ripping off games from the early 80s, it utterly unoriginal. Zelda has always been a technically backward unoriginal back and forth puzzlegame. Even now its is graphically ass compared to other things going on. However there is a notoriously censorious cult that is completely opposed to any form of honest free speech in relation to Nintendo. The fact is that saying zelda/mario/nintendo after the snes is nothing special, not very good IS calling emperors new clothes and those who have been pretending the emperor has beautiful clothes and is heavily invested mentally in doing so will become extremely angry at anyone who points out their foolishness. There is a really nasty cult like aspect to this.

>>9883835
Well I dunno Mario has always been the best 3D platformer and there are practically no games with similar gameplay formula to Zelda. If you don't like it then you don't but lots of people do
> the hardware they run on is relative to other systems bottom tier
This is also fucking bullshit if we are talking about /vr/ specifically and you know it

>>9883840
He's gonna reply with some mental gymnastics and claim you're being one of the aforementioned cultists.

>>9883840
>> the hardware they run on is relative to other systems bottom tier
>This is also fucking bullshit if we are talking about /vr/ specifically and you know it
>>9883835
>usually low tier technically at the time of release
>>9883835
>at the time of release
>>9883840
>>9883840
>Mario has always been the best 3D platformer
Mario started off as a side scrolling platformer and it was a rip off of early 8 bit side scrolling platformers. Utterly unoriginal.
>>9883840
>Mario has always been just another best 3D platformer
FTFY and there are MANY of them and infinite platformers in all shames and forms including isometric and 3d and first person etc etc.
>>9883841
Everyone who loves games has encountered the cultists being referenced and knows what they are like. Don;t pretend they don't exist. They know absolutely nothing of the games or systems outside their cult either so have nothing to compare with.

>>9883682
It’s a game for children. Even your grandma can play it.

>>9883869
Well, seeing as you're not a cultist. Surely you can list some really good platform games that came before Super Mario Bros.

It was the first 3D game in the series, on the title starved N64, had massive hype and I think it was the first game many modern fans played. It did a good job of gracefully bringing the series to 3D with Z-targeting and auto jump and whatnot. Link's prettyboy redesign was also really popular.

All that being said, I dunno if I'd call it massively overrated, but my go-to controversial nerd opinion is that it's not even a top 5 Zelda game.

>>9883902
I always like asking this to people who like Zelda games, but what's your top 5?

>>9883682
it's essential for the american millenial childhood experience

>>9883902
Not those anons, I get these reasons are good enough that kids playing Zelda at this time would have been impressed. N64 just couldn't compete with mid tier 3d PC hardware of the day if you came in just a little older. From the get-go OoT just felt like a long boring walk through unexciting landscapes with what was rapidly looking like low end visuals

Mystical Ninja 64 was an all-around better game.

>>9883903
Sure.

1. BotW - The focus on exploration in a massive open world captured how I felt about the original game. I love the crafting and cooking systems, the bite sized dungeons, everything.
2. MM - The Groundhog Day structure, masks and the focus on solving people's problems over dungeons (though this has some of the nastiest dungeons in the series) along with the creepiest aesthetics in the series really help this installment stand out.
3. ALBW - It's Link To the Past but you can do the dungeons in any order with the item rental system. I was really skeptical about this one but it quickly became one of my favorites.
4. AoL - I know it sounds real hipster contrarian here but this is one of my favorites and play it once a year. I think the combat and platforming is actually a lot of fun and I've played the game enough now that I have a sort of metagame going where I try to level up Link as efficiently as possible. There's some nostalgia bias at work here as well.
5. LoZ - Once again, I like the exploration and combat over poooozles. It's fast, fun and I can beat it in a couple of hours.

Ocarina is good, especially for it's era but it's basically LttP in 3D(and I like LttP better) and TP pretty much does everything Ocarina does but better. I don't really care for some of those DS games but the only mainline Zelda title I kinda hate is Skyward Sword which is the Zelda "formula" at it's most tedious.

>>9884105
Respectable taste, and good reasoning behind each. LoZ1 is pretty high up there for me as well, I actually find the original Zelda's combat to be fucking fantastic, and I've spent many, MANY hours playing a lot of custom quests with Zelda Classic.
Link's Awakening is another personal favorite of mine, partially from a lot of childhood memories with it being my first game with my gameboy I got for my birthday at the age of like, 5 or 6. But I also love the game for how snappy it is and the weird, dreamlike and sometimes sad setting and tone.

I just like Zelda.

>>9884105
To emphasize >>9884126 , you have respectable tastes. Tho I'd still put OoT over ALBW, I particularly like to see someone else giving some love to AoL and LoZ.

Also had the same feeling on BotW, it captures the feeling of exploration very well.
And fuck Skyward Sword.

On a side note, what is both of your opinion about Oracles games ?


To answer OP, I'd argue that the game is still standing as a good game in today's standard (apart from graphisms, tho they are not nasty like other games of the time), which should be speaking for a N64 era game.
Probably a lot of nostalgia bias for me however, I'll admit it.

>>9884156
I prefer Seasons over Ages because of the greater combat focus, but both games are great and a good expansion to the Link's Awakening style of gameplay. The ring system is incredibly novel and I wish it'd make a return in some way.

>>9884169
I see we have a lot in common, I have the same feeling on those games. I love the ring system and find it saddly under-used in the game. In a way the equipments effects in BotW had a similar output on gameplay, which was nice to see.

Oracle of Seasons was actually my very first Zelda game. I still find it, with ages, to be very interesting in the serie, both have so much interesting uniques features.

>>9883682
Because it doesn't do anything special but there's a contingent of vocal fans from the bottom of the industry to the top of it that insist it's the greatest game ever made (that's its tagline)

>>9883682
It isn't.
It's rated just right.

>>9883708
You never played past the first tutorial dungeon.
Try the Master Quest version of OoT and see what you think of it.

>>9883682
If anything it’s underrated. Go play one of my ps2 favorites in Dark Cloud along side an OoT run through. It’s insane how far ahead OoT still is a generation earlier.

>>9884293
I’ve beaten OoT and many other 3D Zeldas. At least 50% of the puzzles in those games are of the “enter room and hit the button variety.” Sometimes the button is on top of a ladder. Sometimes it’s an eye in a wall. Sometimes it isn’t even a button, it’s some other simplistic chore. But at the end of the day that’s all it is. A chore, that doesn’t require any creativity or any thought whatsoever to solve.

Zelda games are for children and BOTW saved the serie

>>9884631
>Zelda games are for children
Based.
>and BOTW saved the serie-ACK!
Cringe.

>>9884650
I'm ESL, what the fuck does '-ACK' mean? I keep seeing it everywhere now

>>9884675
Idk i see it on 41% of threads and dont know neither

>>9883682
It's essentially Baby's First Open World game.

>>9884650
>>9884681
Go back to your containment board.
>>>/v/

>>9883682

And yet ANOTHER "I hate popular thing" shitpost!

Just make an unpopular opinions thread to contain these sperg-outs.

>>9883708
Why are so many contrarian takes on the internet like this?

>my major problem with popular well liked thing is it doesn't fit into this arbitrary category I made up for it

It's not a puzzle game, it's an action adventure game. Puzzles are a small part of it, the main focus of the game is adventure/exploration/story. Monkey Island meanwhile is a straight narrative adventure game so they're able to focus on puzzles more since getting stuck on a puzzle won't keep the player away from combat or exploration.
Like I don't understand arbitrarily assigning a designation to a game to criticize it. It'd be like talking shit about Mario for not having good combat. Makes absolutely no sense.

>>9884839
>it's an action adventure game
And succeeds at neither.

>>9883682
OoT isn't overrated, people just don't 100% understand why they love it or why it's good, so they make a bunch of retarded claims that are bound to trigger some people.
OoT has 1 (one) quality that makes it legendary, and that's it's presentation. Presentation meaning the unique intro animations for each boss, or how Hyrule Field was a large plain instead of a small hub world. How dungeons are fully-realized structures instead of simplistic & repetitive approximations, or even the little musical cues that happen whenever you hit an enemy.
Everything else that faggot video essayists love to bloviate about is mere window dressing. If the presentation wasn't on point, very few would've been impressed with anything else OoT had to offer, because everything else only exists to compliment the presentation.

>>9884839
How DARE you, stupid gaijin. Zelda is ONLY puzzles because i say so.

>>9883682
Mario Kart 64 and Mario 64 are excellent games. Zelda OOT/Mask and Goldeneye are both examples of nostalgia and terrible graphics and control schemes.

>>9883835
Go to bed Auster.

>>9884865
>OoT isn't overrated
Now this is a contrarian post.

>>9884941
I understand where OoT detractors come from to an extent, because I don't really get immersed in games anymore and mostly play solely for the fun aspect.
Still, if games like OoT and FFVII can bamboozle the majority of the gaming populace into thinking they're complex & expansive, even though they're practically on-rails, it doesn't really matter what I think does it? 1998 proved that presentation is the single most effective aspect a videogame can get right.

>>9885052
>OoT
>on rails
literal actual retard

I get the criticisms of the puzzles being pretty simple, but that retard comparing Myst to OoT? That's like comparing Escape from Monkey Island to Dragon's Lair.

>>9884574
No.

>>9884105
>TP pretty much does everything Ocarina does but better
You only think this because you are a contrarian and you won't allow yourself to objectively analyze 'the most popular one'. Twilight princess is a shallow retread of ocarina. The only thing it has over ocarina is a more enjoyable companion character.

>>9885227
Yes.

>>9885137
Beat me to it lmfao

>>9883827
>le approved goyslop

>>9885313
i'll never understand why fags pretend OoT is linear when it's easily the most non-linear outside of Zelda 1 and probably 2. the first thing you do in the game is choose between getting the sword or shield first, and you can explore the whole kokiri village and lost woods. then as soon as you beat the deku dungeon, a good 70% of the world is open to you, and you can do the adult dungeons in almost any order. not to mention sequence breaks.

kill yourself hide thread

>>9885343
>OoT isn’t linear!!
>posts the most linear dungeon in the history of the Zelda franchise
OoTfags everyone

OoT is awesome. It and Mario 64 are probably my only two examples of games where I came in with massive expectations, and then they totally lived up to those expectations. That never happens for me.

>>9885343
It’s pretty linear, anon. You may not know this but games like daggerfall/arena, frontier elite 2, star control 2, ultima 7, wasteland, fallout 1/2, baldurs gate. We’re out either before or at the same time ocarina of time dropped. So in comparison oot is actually pretty small and bare bones. I hoped you learned something today.

>>9885390
the webm is showing how to beat the dungeon without bow retard.

>>9885460
>It’s pretty linear, anon
yeah, not really, for the reasons i just stated that you chose to ignore.

>>9885463
You didn’t even read what I wrote. I said in comparison to games that were already put oot is tiny little baby game and yes it’s extremely linear. You yourself said their are “sequence breaks” which means you have to break out of the linear programming of the game for it not to be linear. Are you fucking retarded? Please tell me how linear oot is compared to daggerfall or frontier elite 2?

>>9885463
>beat the dungeon in a way that is clearly unintended
>bro OoT isn't linear at all!
Retard. I'm sure Nintendo would have patched this out if they were aware of it.

>>9885460
I learned that you have no grasp on the English language. Having less content doesn’t make the game linear. OoT is not linear, it’s adventure exploration game. I hope you learned something today!

>>9885463
>>9885463 #
You didn’t even read what I wrote. I said in comparison to games that were already out, oot is a tiny little baby game and yes it’s extremely linear. You yourself said their are “sequence breaks” which means you have to break out of the linear programming of the game for it not to be linear. Are you fucking retarded? Please tell me how non-linear oot is compared to daggerfall or frontier elite 2?

>>9885482
Jak and Daxter
Dark cloud
GTA (any of the retro ones remember not as much content as daggerfall)
Nes tmnt and dick Tracy
Alttp
Halo
Yup all these games are super linear because they fail to meet the content cap of daggerfall. Great logic.

>>9885480
Oot is linear, it has a sequence of things that need to be done in order for the story to progress. You can’t see the deli tree until you have a sword and shield, you can’t become and adult until you get the three gems, you can’t do this until you get that, etc… that is intrinsically linear, besides that it has no benefit of it’s artificial non linear relief. You can’t bring epona back and ride it as a kid or use any adult items as a kid or kid items as an adult. You get to choose which dungeon you clear first, great. You can’t skip dungeons and still get to ganon, the game was made to be linear. There is awesome side quest stuff sure, but it has no actual bearing on the story itself. It’s a story that has one storyline. It’s linear

>>9885343
You're the only one who bothered to make an argument.
> it's easily the most non-linear outside of Zelda 1 and probably 2
And ALTPP, Link Between Worlds, BOTW, etc. OoT is more open than it's many sequels that use OoT as their base framework, that's not saying much.
>the first thing you do in the game is choose between getting the sword or shield first
There's no choosing between sword & shield. You buy the shield with rupees, you find rupees doing practically anything, up to & including getting the sword.
>a good 70% of the world is open to you, and you can do the adult dungeons in almost any order
Come on now. The world is "open" to the extent that you can roll up to the entrance of Lake Hylia, Zora's River, etc, and promptly get set back because you don't have the right equipment or the story hasn't advanced to the proper point yet.
As for adult Link, you're shoehorned into doing the Forest Temple first. Your choices afterwards are fire/water temples, and after that spirit/shadow. Definitely more open than OoT's sequels, but quite constrained compared to a lot of the 2D Zeldas. Please don't say something retarded, like how you can actually do the Shadow Temple without the lens of truth if you really wanted to have a miserable time.

>>9885482
what kind of autism causes you to think this way? just because there were other games less linear than OoT doesn't mean the game is linear. all i said was it was the least linear Zelda game other than 1/2. calm down and stop acting like a hysterical woman.

>>9885497
All of those games are fairly linear though. Do you know the definition of linear?

>>9885505
>As for adult Link, you're shoehorned into doing the Forest Temple first. Your choices afterwards are fire/water temples, and after that spirit/shadow
this is all i'm going to respond to in your post because it shows that you don't even understand what you're talking about. you can do fire before forest with no glitches or exploits whatsoever -- they even added a second entrance to the map room so you could get it without the bow. you can do water before fire, spirit before shadow, and other orders as well with no sequence breaking. you are a fucking noob.

>>9885503
>a game is linear if there are progress chokepoints
no. by that definition, Oblivion is "linear" since you'll still need to do the same story quests in the same order as anyone else to beat the game. what matters is what happens in-between.

>>9885507
Yeah not really, anon. Oot gives you the illusion of linear choices because a select few dungeons are interchangeable. Mega man has more non linear aspects than oot does. Oot is not an rpg, it s linear, it’s an action adventure game (with light rpg mechanics if you really need that tacked on) . Why are nintoddlers so ticking retarded???

>>9885520
>moving the goalposts
you just want to argue.

>>9885518
Yeah oblivions main story is linear, it’s the first elder scrolls to make npcs essential so you can’t kill them, pretty much removing the non linear aspects of previous entries. Now look at new Vegas if you want a modern example of good non linear game play, but morrowind would have sufficed.

>>9885540
>Oblivion is linear because the story is linear

>>9885525
No, you don’t get to change the story or how the story flows in oot, you get like 4 choices of which dungeon to beat first. You have to beat each dungeon the same way each time, it’s completely linear. You said yourself to create more non linear gameplay you have to glitch and “sequence break”. If the game was truly non linear that wouldn’t be a thing. Having the choice to choose which dungeon you do first has no effect on the story.

>>9885549
>You said yourself to create more non linear gameplay you have to glitch and “sequence break
show me where i said this. i explicitly said you could do dungeons out of order, just that there were also sequence breaks. that doesn't make the game linear retard. also your original point was that OoT is less linear than other games, then when you realized that this has nothing to do with the discussion, you pivoted to "well uh ackshually OoT isn't non-linear at all". did you just get mixed up while samefagging or something? jesus dude.

>>9885543
It’s the first elder scrolls where you can’t kill essential npcs, it literally won’t let you deviate from the main story if you wanted to. It will always be there whenever you want to play it. I think the terms open world and non linear are being used interchangeably here. Open world games can be linear, meaning that the story doesn’t really change depending on your actions. Take grand theft auto for example, specifically the third one. It doesn’t really matter what you do, the story is the same. Now take grand theft auto 5, your actions actually do impact what happens and who lives in the story. That is an example, in the same franchise, of linear and non linear aspects in an open world game.

>>9885563
>Open worlds can be linear
most retarded thing i've ever read

>>9885562
Yea you said there were sequence breaks, I didn’t even know that term before you said it. What is the purpose of a sequence break, if I might ask?

>>9885508
Sure bud and looking at the official Webster definition same applies to daggerfall. It’s all so tiresome, linear games is a gamer term and intentionally making these claims is dishonest. This whole thread is a shit post have fun!

>>9885568
>doesn't even understand the discussion he's having
lol, have a good night kid

>>9885567
Prove me wrong then

>>9885574
why are you purposely being retarded?

>>9885512
>dismiss the whole argument due to a single instance of autistic hair-splitting
Sasuga. Also, I asked you nicely not to say anything retarded. If you roll up to Fire temple I guarantee Navi will try to direct you back to the Forest temple. 99% of people went through the dungeons in the same order.
>you can do water before fire, spirit before shadow
Which is exactly what I meant by "fire/water" and "spirit/shadow"

>>9885584
>dismiss the whole argument due to a single instance of autistic hair-splitting
no, stop right there faggot. you hinge your entire argument on the alleged linearity of a game that you haven't even played enough to discuss. that isn't hair splitting, that's you not knowing what you're talking about.

>>9885570
Daggerfall has consequences to the storyline if you do things wrong, you can literally delay or skip parts depending on where you go and who you side with. You can literally just not do the main quest and fail and still go to every single part of the games world. Besides that daggerfall has five different actual endings that can be gotten to a multitude of different ways. Nice try, bud, but you have absolutely no arguments to stand on.

>>9885579
Why can’t you give a valid argument?

>>9885596
there isn't a valid argument for someone claiming that a game where you can go anywhere at any time is "linear". you're mentally ill.

Story- 0/10
Frame rate - 0/10
Controls- 1/10
Graphics 0/10

Only nintendrones think oot is gud and that's because of nostalgia

Totk is super mario world compared to mario 3 (botw) - faggots will love it but it's just shit DLC

>>9885608
>Controls 1/10
at least there must've been something you liked

>>9885603
Eel that’s not exactly true tether, is it. “Open world” definitely has restrictions… well some open world games do. Grand theft auto is a great example. You can’t go to every area until you unlock them, that’s linear stranglehold on the whole term “open world” many games have that including oot.

>>9885608
While I'm all for shitting on Twinks of the kingdom, and all the other legend of androgyny games I would prolly say smw was a liiittle bigger than a shitty dlc.

>>9885589
>I didn't play OoT because I didn't do the fire temple first
Again, 99% of people didn't do the fire temple first. The fact that you're hinging your whole counterargument on
>well you can actually go B/A->C instead of A->B/C
Just proves everyone's point in that your view of adventure games is hopelessly narrow & limited. You're one of these people who get hoodwinked by presentation into thinking OoT is much bigger than it actually is.

>>9885613
Sonic 1 is a linear game. Oblivion is not a linear game. you are being retarded. man, i need to take a break from this place.

>>9885616
>I didn't play OoT because I didn't do the fire temple first
this is literally entry level knowledge dude. if you want to discuss the game from the perspective of a retarded 9 year old, then maybe reddit is more your speed. you made a demonstrably untrue claim and now you're backpedaling by poo-pooing the game that you've already proven yourself to be unfamiliar with.
>You're one of these people who get hoodwinked by presentation into thinking OoT is much bigger than it actually is.
you're just a faggot who goes online to talk shit about things he doesn't understand.

>>9885624
I said Forest, then fire/water. If you want to go a roundabout sort of way where it's fire/forest then water it still doesn't disprove my argument. Instead of being shoehorned into the Forest temple you're now shoehorned into the Water temple.

>>9885624
One time I did the fire temple first as a kid and I still don't think the game is special as an adult I was just looking to waste time because I had nothing else to play.

I think there's genuinely a major difference in opinion from people who played OoT v1.0/1.1 and 1.2 - the uncensored version with the original fire temple music has some of the best atmosphere of any game of all time, while the later censored versions cheapen the whole game by making it sound like the shadow temple, meaning that no longer is every dungeon a distinct location with its own unique atmosphere (which is the thing that hard carries OoT)

>>9885631
i don't know what else to tell you. if you didn't even know that you could do fire first, then you aren't prepared to have an informed discussion about this. even if we pretend you didn't make this little bugaboo, your argument is no less worthless because you're conflating a game having linear story segments with the game itself being linear. the minute you get to hyrule field, you could play the game for 3 hours without ever going to a dungeon, and have a completely different experience than someone else who did the same. you'd have different items, have done different quests/minigames, and found different secrets. that's non-linearity. if you want to discuss how these choices impact the overall experience, then that's a different story. the fact remains, the game affords you plenty of opportunities to do things in a variety of ways, and to explore off the beaten path. i'd wager you don't even know about shit like the skulltulas you can only find by going back to dungeons you already beat, or how you can get the fire arrows before beating water temple -- there's dozens of things like this. i'm sorry, but you are a noob.

>>9885662
>how you can get the fire arrows before beating water temple
eh
did they just not check that the water actually filled the lake before you shoot for the sun?

>>9885662
There are like 3 "sidquests" in OOT and they're mostly collectathons why are you glazing OOT so hard? It's a mid game! Big whoop! They mostly were!

>>9885663
no, they put a scarecrow location on the pedestal where you obtain the fire arrows that you can only activate by playing the song when the lake is empty. they thought of a lot of things you wouldn't expect.

>>9885665
>reduction to absurdity
glad you finally admit you don't know anything about the game.

>>9885670
Different Anon, Glazer.
No seriously, please google and tell me I'm wrong.

>>9885678
>tell me i'm wrong
you're very wrong

>>9885682
Oh rad i'm right!
Go home glazer.

>>9885662
> if you didn't even know that you could do fire first, then you aren't prepared to have an informed discussion about this
Does this mean I'm not allowed in the speedrunning discord with you guys?
Items/powerups off the beaten path and collectibles like skulltula tokens exist in every genre of game. OoT having non-linear elements in the same vein as a Sonic or Mega man X game is not the slam dunk you think it is.

>>9885690
brb gonna edit that wiki to say you've had sex. but back in reality:
>biggoron sword
>skulltulas
>all of the upgrades for slingshot, bow etc.
>masks
>running man
>fairy fountains for spells
>bottles
>epona
>magic beans
>gerudo training ground
next you'll tell me how these entirely optional activities that give you rewards are not ackshually quests.

>>9885695
>OoT having non-linear elements in the same vein as a Sonic
lol

>>9885567
you're a smoothbrain retard, progression can be linear even if the world is open.

>>9885714
if a game is open world, it isn't linear. that's the entire point of being "open world". if a giant world is rendered and you can't access it independent of the main story, the game is linear. that's not open world. i beg of you, please stop being an aspie.

>>9885707
Collectathon after collectathon.
These are entirely optional activities that give you rewards, and they are not ackshually quests, glazer.

>>9885727
>collectathon
yes, please tell me more about the "horse racing" or "playing music for dead woodland children" """collectathons"""
>not ackshually quests
name 3 games with ACKshual quests

>>9883682
it's alright mostly I think because they did a good job bringing zelda into 3d. twilight is better now why that's underrated is a real question

>>9885618
Sonic 1 is not an open world game though it’s a platformer. Do you only think in absolutes like a sith? Just extreme left to extreme right without even pondering what’s you’re saying. More than one of these things can be true at the same time. And for that matter, sonic 1 has more linear approaches in its level design than the dungeons in oot do. Look, if it was relevant and mattered to the story in some way which dungeon you do first, (which you’re pretty much pigeon holed to go linear until you’re an adult and even then you can’t just Willy Nilly go to any dungeon), then I’d give you some leeway. As it stands, the dungeon thing is just not enough to say the game is non linear. The story never changes. It’s all just an illusion, you have to play each dungeon pretty much the same way, each time. Give or take not grabbing the map or compass.

>>9885803
Non linear approaches*

>>9885460
>daggerfall/arena, frontier elite 2, star control 2, ultima 7, wasteland, fallout 1/2, baldurs gate
Those all have significantly weaker gameplay.

>>9885762
>name 3 games with ACKshual quests
Well for starters, Castlevania II: Simon's Quest, I mean it's right there in the title... uhhhh,... two more.... fuck....

auster-troon thread

>>9885343
>sequence breaks
Tranny speedrunner opinions don't count.

>>9885343
>OoT is the most non-linear outside of Zelda 1 and probably 2
Zelda 2 is completely linear.
ALTTP is more non-linear than OOT.

>>9885818
That wasn’t the argument, moron. Do you just live off of logical fallacies? Either way, that’s arguable. I quite enjoy flying around space and planets in frontier elite 2 and I also enjoy daggerfalls combat more than oot (it’s really not bad at all, it’s actually ten times better than morrowinds combat and going around punching and kicking vampires in the face after mastering unarmed is fun af. The bows work quite well, there’s a shit ton of crazy spells and you can customize to your play style.), not by much though. Oot has good combat flow and fun items.

>le linear = bad retard logic
a good linear game is always better than a shitty open world one

>>9885248
I don't know, Anon. The Zora tunic in TP is really fucking cool, and binding the iron boots to a face button works out much better, though Wind Waker did that first.
The ball and chain and dual clawshots are also pretty cool, though I feel that's about the extent of the items, because the spinner is so limited in its use, same with the dominion rod.

My personal biggest gripe with TP is how many missed opportunities were present, that and climbing vines fucking sucks.

>>9886092
The most frustrating thing for me is the fact that literally all they would need to do to make the spinner awesome is would be to have it keep going even when not running on a track. Dominion rod is fine just because it's still not cane of pacci level retarded, even if it's limited in use.
Other than that, it's a masterpiece and rivals ocarina with its art style, soundtrack, dungeons and emotional appeal through its characters and ending.

>>9883682
It's not. It might not seem revolutionary but its genius is in how tight and polished it is.

>>9883708
I definitely remember getting stuck plenty of puzzles in Zelda games growing up.

>>9885273
Such thrilling arguments, both of you! The pinnacle of Internet discourse, truly.

>>9883759
This anon gets it. OOT is a cohesive masterpiece.

>>9883840
>Mario has always been the best 3D platformer
Eh, Kirby Super Star gives any 2D Mario a run for its money and A Hat in Time blows the 3D games out of the water, so Idk about that. That's not to say Mario's bad per say, but not always the cream of the crop either. At least it has that Nintendo polish.

>>9885248
Nah TP has plenty going for it on its own. It's not a "retread" anymore than any sequel in any game series that's not a reinvention is a retread.

>>9884105
Jesus Christ this is a terrible ranking, aside from MM. I see a pretty strong trend of "non-linearity is king" in here, aside from AoL, which I can't fathom the inclusion given how unapologetically awful it is.

>>9886230
I don't agree with the order or with Botw being top 5. It's funny how all those games still mog the shit out of OOT. I hope you're not this faggot >>9886079
because non-linearity is what makes an adventure game.

>>9886174
I just wish it was harder than OOT. I understand why WW is easy since it's more cartoony and you're a kid in it, but TP should have been more difficult than OOT since you're a grown man through the whole game and the art style and mood are more gloomy. It just would've been a better fit.

>>9883690
Botw and ToTK are the first actual 3D Zelda games. OoT and OoT inspired games, regardless of their quality, are like Zelda reboots. The new games take the original idea of LoZ, AoL, LTTP, Oracle games, and LA into 3D. Games which prioritizes exploration in an overworld as opposed to just dungeons.
OoT diehards need to recognize OoT would be x10 better if the overworld was completely gone and if they had done the original idea of a small castle hub world connecting each dungeon, which is the real meat of the game

>>9886267
>OoT diehards need to recognize OoT would be x10 better if the overworld was completely gone and if they had done the original idea of a small castle hub world connecting each dungeon, which is the real meat of the game
Jesus christ, imagine being this autistic and ADHD brained.

>>9886270
It's not ADHD brained, it's just that OoTs overworld sucks. It exists for 2 reasons,
1. Show off new tech
2. Every Zelda game prior had an overworld
What does OoT really gain from having a large field you need to spam roll over and over in besides making your adventure seem more grand (because you wasted a lot more time)
It's why every Zelda game after OoT puts tons of shit into the overworld or just makes it much tinier. BOTW and ToTK just decided to go back to the roots and address the problem by making the fun of the game exploring a massive overworld

>>9886274
You don't just "spam roll", you unlock the horse and traverse it quickly. At any rate, "overworld" =/= "hubworld". Other overworld areas in OOT include the Lost Woods, Death Mountain, Lake Hylia, Zora's River, and Desert Colossus. If you can't see what the game benefits from having all of these areas + Hyrule Field tying them all together instead of just a series of dungeons, I think you might just be a soulless autist.

>>9886282
Not that guy, but you can play through the entire game without ever getting Epona.
I personally think OoT's overworld is just fine, it's just big enough.

>>9886282
I like Lost Woods, Death Mountain, Lake Hylia, Zora's River, and Desert Colossus but Hyrule Field is a bunch of nothing. You're right Epona lets you skip it, what does that tell you about how even the devs feel about it.
Why not give me the horse from the start so I can just traverse this area quickly, or just make it tiny like Majora's Mask. EVERY GAME ONWARDS tries to fix the overworld because there's little if at all benefit to it, why not just bring me to a map select after leaving each area to just make it more streamlined. It's just also emblematic of a lot of OoT and 3D Zelda's issue which is just a lot of waiting and padding. Which the game series known as 2D Zelda doesn't have and which Botw and Totk dont have

>>9885503
>You can’t see the deli tree
>deli tree
What you are saying is true, but you're still a dumb phoneposte

>>9885563
>your actions actually do impact what happens and who lives in the story.
lmao imagine using GTA 5 as a positive example for literally anything except showing greedy execs how to milk a playerbase of bumbling retards

>>9883682
This and Wind Waker are THE games that "girl gamers" pretend to like for clout. They never actually play them though.

>>9883682
there wasnt really anything like it at the time so it stuck out in a big way
kids had never really had a chance to explore an open 3D world like that, and the whole zelda "get a new item to unlock more places" sense of progression kept kids engaged the whole time

>>9883682
>Why is it so massively overrated?
Fanboyism for something that was never that good.

>>9886535
>kids had never really had a chance to explore an open 3D world like that
But they did and in ways that pushed the envelope far more than shit like Zela, Lords of Midnight released in 1984 and was open world for example and vastly more innovative. Mario and Zelda were never innovative or particularly good or deserving of the cult they developed..

>>9883878
>>9883878
>Well, seeing as you're not a cultist. Surely you can list some really good platform games that came before Super Mario Bros.

Jet Set Willy
Manic Miner
Chuckie Egg
There were many many many of them even Mario a a character was unoriginal as, pic related (1985) as there were a spate of mainetence /repair men platformers but 1985 was quite late and yes, Mario was an unoriginal platformer rip off.

>>9886628
What an utterly retarded comparison.
Protip: There's a huge difference between moving icons over a map and actually moving through an actual environment.

>>9886685
Here's technician ted another platformer featuring a maintenance man janitor house clean etc etc like big mac the mad maintenance man that came before Mario. Mario was an unoriginal rip off platformer, even the character type and slim premise. Nintendo cultists Don't actually know much about the history of games

>>9886690
>Protip: There's a huge difference between moving icons over a map and actually moving through an actual environment.
You never even looked at the game. You really are a useless anon. Its a FPS open world (yes)
There are no icons moving over maps and this was 1984.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n251r73JIxY

>>9886685
>>9886691
But are they any fun? I've seen footage of Chuckie Egg and I think that one looks pretty solid, even though the boxart is fucking hideous.

>>9886690
The only retarded thing on this board is your fanboy cultism. I can appreciate the history of gaming and many types of games and first on different platforms. You are locked into a cult and actually don't seem to know much about where Nintendo ripped its stuff off from.

>>9886697
Of course they were fucking fun. People played shit like manic miner and Jet set willy obsessively. You are trying to make out that muh special nintendo when I'm shoving the fact right in your face that even their flagship mario the platformer was a rather sad and late rip off from this era
>>9886691
>>9886685

>>9886685
>1985 comes before 1981
I knew bongs were backwards but this is ridiculous!

>>9886704
Settle down, Beavis.

>>9886706
I'm not a bong and even wahen face with this >>9886685
>>9886691
You have to cover your ears and run screaming a way because your cult would deny the sky was blue if that was part of lying about Nintendo.

>>9886691
Wait a second. This came out in 1984, and Donkey Kong debuted in 1981

>>9886706
Bing Bing whaoo fags suck and are cultists that deny reality.
>>9886707
Saw off his tweeter.

>>9886251
>because non-linearity is what makes an adventure game
there's way more important things than that, for example having good music, actually having cool shit to explore, having cool items to find/use. non-linearity is the most overrated goddamn "feature" that every faggot is willing to make the rest of the experience of adventure games worse just to have, and they still haven't figured out how to make good zelda games without some degree of linearity. if being able to do the adult dungeons in OoT isn't enough of that kind of thing for you, it's because you're probably a truly shit-eating "hurr durr muh non-linearity" faggot

Based OOT still mogging midwits and posers. GOAT, dwi. CS&D.

>>9883835
>Mario was not anything special
Fucking wrong. Super Mario Bros revolutionized 2D platformers. It was a smash hit and cultural milestone because it was actually fun to play unlike Atari. But since you're a contrarian zoomer you have to shit on it. You were born into a world already full of great platforms because of Super Fucking Mario Brothers.

>>9886806
I just did not enjoy BOTW or OOT. At all. I really tired but I found teh puzzles weak, the gameplay buts back and frothing and the styling just too fisher price and child safe. Its not like OOT was popular at the time either, the N64 was a dud. BOTW is just plebbit the game.

>>9886685
Those games control like ass

>>9886932
>Fucking wrong. Super Mario Bros revolutionized 2D platformers
Nah it didn't there were 100s written before it, probably the most common genre on shit like the spectrum, tandy, bbc, vic, Ti commodore etc. You only seem to know about Atari or Nintendo. I guess you were not alive at the time.

>>9886940
Really? Humm. I don't think you ever played them when they were released.

>>9886942
>he thinks britjank for the speccy, without scrolling and without momentum can be considered revolutionary
oy

>>9886949
Please stop trying to flame and concentrate on teh substance. There were 100s of 2D mutli room character platformers prior to bing bing wahoo. It brought nothing new. Nothing.

>>9886942
I don't give a shit about your ZX Speccy goddamn it. They controlled like shit. Everyone copied Mario's controls after it came out even the impoverished European designers.

>>9886948
I'd have to have been British and I'd rather be dead

Is it moral for you to wake the windfish and take the lives of the people of Koholint Island in exchange for yours?

I think Nintendo is overrated, especially current Nintendo, but it's impossible to deny that 80s and 90s Nintendo was awesome. They made dozens of great games. I feel like this is undeniable and yet, some people just have a much bigger hateboner than me, I guess.
You can shit on not/vr/ Nintendo without trying to pretend their old shit wasn't legendary. You can do that, and in fact you should

>>9886951
It brought good controls and solid presentation. Those adventure games were barely platformers. Mario was much more action focused, smooth, and fast. The fact you're insisting they're just as good or better in that regard is a testament to your shit taste.

>>9886951
>Please stop trying to flame
>uses /v/-style console war lingo like "bing"
Speccy britjank is not revolutionary.

>>9886952
>>9886956
I don't think you were alive at the time or have played any of these early 80s 2D platformers as a kid. You only know about Mario, which was far later and completely unoriginal.
>>9886956
I'm not a bong. You seem to know nothing about early retro gaming if you think e.g. the TI-99 was anything to do with the UK either. Stop trying o insult people and just realise that Mario as a 2D platformer released in 1985 was neither new original or innovative and just one of a bunch of 'repairman' 2D platformers, many of which released before Mario, indeed you have to consider the fact that Mario was a copy of stuff like >>9886685 and >>9886691
because similarities are so huge.

>>9886969
Donkey Kong came out before those though

>>9886963
But you are lying, the controls on all these home computer platformers were fast and responsive neither did they have one control system, they could also use joysticks but you don't even know that because you are just flaming at me and don't even know anything about what is being discussed . Mario was completely unoriginal at the time of its release as a 2D platformer and nothing special,
>>9886965
Apparently it was as were all the other home computers just not for you because you ere not alive at the time..they were hugely important

>>9886969
I had a NES and I had DOS computer no red blooded American kid played your esoteric British shit

>>9886974
Mario's scrolling and momentum based controls made the platforming in the other games at the time look barely functional, you're an idiot

>>9886970
sure but it is not a mutlilevel multi room platformer in fact you CAN if you want to look at miner49er or others as wellas all the early 80s multilever 2D platformers. Mario as a 2D platformer released in 1985 that is REALLY late to the party and I honestly ahve always considered it a clone ( and quite justificably) of the many home computer multilevel 2D platformer repair games. Again See
>>9886691
>>9886685
Zelda was far from original either, see Ultima III which came far before it.

>>9886938
>Its not like OOT was popular at the time either, the N64 was a dud
nigger you literally weren't there

>>9886984
You never played them. Why are you lying? It does not come across well it makes you seem disingenuous and insane. Mario brought nothing to 2D platformers on release in 1985, nada, zilch, zip.

>>9886974
>they were hugely important
lol

>>9886986
>but it is not a mutlilevel multi room platformer
You seriously have never played Donkey Kong?

>>9886990
yeah I was. Playing doom and unreal on a PC and enjoying a PS1/PS2 and writing software you know...on a PC and other systems. The N64 did not do well. Are you trying to rewrite history or something?

>>9886974
>the controls on all these home computer platformers were fast and responsive

>>9886994
yeah they were as were the x86 AT PCs at Apple 2e and CPM machines. FAR ,more important than crap like Mario or Zelda.

>>9887000
Yup they were. Why are you trying to pretend otherwise since you have never used one and were not alive at the time....

>>9887003
>>9887007
microputers guys having hateboners against famous Nintendo games are always funny, and sad at the same time.
Try to convince people that your jank euro platformers are important, guy, just try.

>>9887014
You're back to trying to be xenophobic against anon when you don't; even know where anon is from because you have no argument and don't know much about retro games and almost nothing about digital computing and consumer hardware evolutions outside of lying in defense of a brand that could not give a fuck about you that released some fairly meh and unoriginal games that had already come out on a variety of home computers in the US and Europe.

>>9887030
Grow a pair.
Western devs were good at other kind of games, like sims and the like. 2D platformers by western devs were always janky, with the exception of PoP, which is "cinematic" style platformer.

>>9887036
Mario was not original. It was a rip off of 'western devs' Video games and digital computing were relatively late arrivals in Japan.. Again, Mario as a 2D multilevel platformer in 1985 was completely unoriginal and indistinguishable from the multilevel platformers (100s of them) that preceded it on home computers or even your beloved Zelda when Ultima III existed long before it . Nintendo's contribution to the evolution of digital computing is virtually nothing aside from a bing bing noise. You just sound like a tard who knows nothing, lies a lot like Nintendo cultists

>>>/v/ is the bait board, OP.

>>9887050
I love how Nintendo totally breaks your mind.
Enjoy having nostalgia for bad eurojank that nobody cares about in 2023, because it was never revolutionary or important.
>Ultima
now that's better, still not quite like Zelda, though. Hydlide is more like Zelda, though that's very janky in terms of controls.
>b-b-but muh nintendo hateboner!
lol

>>9886996
>The N64 did not do well. Are you trying to rewrite history or something?
literally the only one from that console generation that didn't do well was the sega saturn

>>9887069
But anon, you don't understand, the PS1 sold more, so that means the N64 was a total failure that left Nintendo in red numbers, okay?

>>9887065
I'm just stating plain fact
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFHpuc4yqzk
This is 1983, this is Ultima III on a PC The first Zeda was not released until 1986 and if anything does not even equal Ultima III in 1983 but looks like a poor clone of an Ultimate play the game but nearer something like Atic Atac on a spectrum. There is nothing original about mario or zelda and if you are so obsessed that you need to try and erase the importance of machines like the VIC, Commodore, Spectrum, PC x86 etc your're fucked up and you are also lying all the time, all these platforms were packed with great and truly innovative games long before mario or zelda but they also made important innovations in digital computing and hardware design. You're just a cunt and that's nothing to do with nintendo, just you.

>>9886993
your seething is palpable. why deny Nintendo's influence? you're not convincing anyone other than yourself

>>9887065
Are you so stupid and lacking in knowledge that you don't even know that Commodore was a US company and that the Ti99 was made by texas instruments? What's sad is you are trying to give off this vide of being the ultimate nintendie shitting out nonsense and you don't even know what the 6502 is or what its connection to the NES is or what macvhines it was in (the same ones you are trying to dismiss). Its just fucking sad watcjhing retarded fanboys like you who were not even alive at the time bullshitting on for (yous). Why don't you fuck off an learn something about early gaming and retro gaming instead of spamming. neither mario or zelda were original and the processor that powered the NES came from work at Motorola another American company.

>>9886986
>never made it to level 2 in donkey kong

>>9887095
You really know almost nothing about retro games, the origins or the origins of gaming and digital computing. All you do is spam this board with utter bullshit about nintendo. Why don't you fuck off and actually learn something about retro games because neither zelda or mario were original in any way but poor clones of games that were written in the preceding years so if you love them so much why not go and find out about their actual origins oh and the processor that powered the nes as well and its origins...?

>>9886685
>looking at the gameplay of all those games
literally nothing even close to mario, all black background simplistic zx spectrum games where the character doesn't gain and lose momentum the way mario does

>>9886938
>Buzzword buzzword buzzword
>Styling just too fisher price and child safe
lol You mist be the guy this anon was talking about.

>>9886251
I'm not them, but they're right.

i think if it had come out on almost any other console at any other time it'd definitely be a lot less highly praised. there was a concerted effort to prop the n64 up with hype and i know because i was there.

still, even the hyperbole around it is a bit crazy, it's not hard to understand why it was and is popular. it's a game wtih very broad appeal and a good attempt at capturing that sort of magical fairy tale quality. also one of the few first-party nintendo games that didn't feel excessively childish.

>>9886685
You're kinda right anon. But I think you have to know when to pick your battles /vr/ is not well disposed towards microcomputers and it never will be. Its a shame but I think it's just because the average age here is almost all people who played nintendo/sony/sega and the bias runs too deep.

>>9889106
How is he kinda right though? Donkey Kong predates all of the games he posted by 3 to 4 years. His claim of Nintendo ripping those games off is baffling.

>>9889102
>and i know because i was there.
You certainly weren't.
But please, just out of interest, tell us a bit about Final Fantasy VII.

>>9884105
>OoT is 3d lttp
Zoomerest of zoomer takes. I am inclined to believe that you have not played either game

>>9883708
>I can solve the required dungeons easily
>What do you mean there were secrets?
Children.

>>9883840
Most people who've "played" ANY Mario game have completed maybe 6 levels. Like most normies, they "get bored" and never touch it again. Their review:
>It was fun, I liked it.Next!

Then there are "gamers" who "beat" Mario games. And what that really means is they got to Bowser's Castle and won. Done-and-done! Their review:
>It was awful and overrated. I can't believe I took time out of my life to OWN this game like the child's p.o.s. it is. Give me another Dark Souls.

Then there are actual fans of video gaming who enjoyed Mario games. They didn't just get to the end, no no; they beat EVERY level. Collected ALL the prizes. They probably put something like 200 hours into the game. Because they wanted to. Their review:
>Far better than ___, but it lacked some of the camp the previous titles had. Doesn't stop it from being a masterpiece, though. I'd recognize that background music in every crossover it ever appeared in, good stuff.

>>9884839
>Why are so many contrarian takes on the internet like this?
It's attention-seeking behavior.
The "internet" of today has many, many, many more people on it. And nearly all those many, many, many more that arrived are desperate for attention in any way they can get it.

>>9887118
what game was super mario bros a clone of?

>>9883708
I can't imagine a worse hell than having to solve a brand new puzzle every fucking screen

>>9890649
If the implication here is that one must play Mario for hundreds of hours to derive enjoyment, then that is a pretty damning implication for the quality of the Mario titles. If I beat a game and do not feel it is good, then it has failed to be good, and I play another game. This is easy on a console such as the PlayStation.

OoT is great and not overrated. It's the quintessential adventure. Name a game with a better sense of wonder, discovery and adventure. And content.
>inb4 dork souls
>inb4 uhh, lttp

>>9890741
>If
That's not the implication.

My desire to fuck Naboru is almost as great as OP's desire to suck cocks.

>>9885445
It's the controller, isn't it? It plays perfectly with the trident controller and I can't imagine Nintendo capitalizing on trends with another design like it. I mean Super Mario Sunshine plays beautifully with the Dual Shock, but the GC controller feels comparatively claustrophobic.

I saw this thread when it was at 10-20 posts and I thought
>surely vr is not retarded enough to take the bait and argue about oot for the 956812678126581258125812851285th time
but here we are

>>9891219
You really underestimate how braindead normies are it's the same reason why new games past 2010 have 3 hour long tutorials

>HAHA, they tricked you NORMIES into talking about one of your favourite games!

>>9883692
>Literally a puzzle game for 7 year olds.
That's not a bad thing. That's when I played the game.

>>9883708
Look I love Monkey Island but Zelda is far more of a puzzle game than Monkey Island, or any of the other Lucasarts "use item on object" games.

It's one of only two good RPGs for the system [the other being the sequel], both American and Japanese Nintentards watched the PS1 and Saturn respectively outsell their precious smeary 64 bit piece of shit, they were starved for any RPG by the time 98 rolled around. So a pretty decent, but definitely not the best of all time, 3D reinvention of Nintendo's most beloved action RPGs was exactly what they needed so bad.

>>9890621
The biggest problem with OoT's dungeons is precisely that there are no secrets beyond the skultulas, and even then only half the dungeons actually bother to hide them in clever ways.

Every chest will be marked on your map after gaining the compass. Even then, aside from the major item, the chests virtually never have anything else meaningful besides the small keys needed for completion. There is exactly one heart piece that you can find in any dungeon.

I would love it if the dungeons were better, but they are easily the weakest part of the game, and far less interesting to explore than the outside world.

>>9885460
The 'way' in which OoT is non-linear is more impressive though. You have a game that is naturally gated by your abilities, but which is designed carefully so that the devs could plan out possible routes through the game by containing the geometry in particular ways. This is completely different from the ways that Baldur's Gate is non-linear, where you happen to be able to choose to do a given quest or another at a given time.

Like, you can actually do things like completely skip exploring the well, because all it gives you is knowledge on what you can do, which can be overcome without it, even if it would otherwise seem a 'mandatory' part of the game, or explore late parts of the game early by obtaining the horse, which is otherwise completely optional. Likewise, you only need one fire generating item to complete OoT, each of which can be missed.

>>9885665
>There are like 3 "sidquests" in OOT
The games 3 biggest sidequests are the best sidequests on all gaming though.

It’s 3D ALTTP

>>9885948
2 is actually exceptionally open. You have enormous freedom from the very start and can explore most of the world and obtain a ton of spells before even entering a dungeon.

>>9891446
The only Gates there are in two is that in order to proceed through the next part of the overworld you need an item from the dungeon, but even then you can jump into a dungeon, grab the item, then move on, it's actually easier EXP wise to do that since you auto level up when you put in a crystal.

There's also a slight sense of continunity with the Zelda 1 setting being south of death mountain and the Hammer being found in the old final dungeon of one.

>>9883827
Tetris is the only goat game on that list. For platformer I'd put Sonic 2, smb3, battletoads and earthworm jim. Racing would be Daytona usa and Sega Rally, party games would be Smash and do on. Wonderboy 2 and 3 are far superior to any Zelda game but nobody ever played them compared to oot and the internet boards are filled with zoomers.

>>9884839
>exploration
Everyone says this to hype their shitty games. If you truly cared about exploration morrowind would be your first choice for GOAT game.

>>9889303
OOT is 3D LTTP. Link to the Past is also a better game.

>>9891896
I remember the first time I encountered that silly son of a bitch. I didn't survive using the Scroll of Icarian Flight either. Fucking hilarious.

>>9891391
I don't give 2 SHITS about motherfucking gay-ass RPG's. WHY THE FUCK WOULD I WANT 2D PIXELS WITH SHIT windows EXCEL COMBAT? ANYONE WHO IS NOT A WEEB KNOWS THOSE GAMES FUCKING SUCK ASS, THEY ARE PEAK BORINGNESS, CODE A PUNCH MOVEMENT, MAKE IT FEEL SATISFYING... NOOO I NEED MORE MENUS. OCARINA > any shit final fantasy that stuck on the past with gameplay.

>>9883708
I've seen people get stuck on the puzzles, so fuck you.
Plus it's never been labelled a puzzle game, it's always been an action-adventure game.

>>9891913
Nothing about this bs take is even remotely based in reality

>>9886225
I just wanted to say that this is one of the worst posts I've ever seen.

Saying that there is ANY Kirby game is better than every 2D Mario is trash taste. And this is coming from a Kirby fan.

>>9892063
LTTP being better than OOT isn't a BS take. And OOT is still 3D LTTP. Maybe if you had been there you would understand.

>>9883682
Pssh the fishing game alone puts others to shame.

>>9892943
>Better than OoT
>Still repeating nonsense
Compounding our stupidity now are we?

>>9892943
i was there and it's not