/vr/ - Retro Games

Not dev intention

>I DON'T LIKE BLACK BARS

>>9873006
why yes, I don't. and you?

>>9873003
What are the implications of this?

>>9873024
I'm not autistic and can ignore the negative space.

Widescreen is more gimmicky than 3D.
It's a hack that has to be done per game and it usually breaks things like sprite spawn calls if not done meticulously.
No, it doesn't really modify difficulty.
An SNES Mini can run them through RetroArch but not with the native Canoe emulator last I checked, which was several months ago.

>>9873032
Your mothers a slu t

>>9873056
Have any such meticulous patches been made? Super Mario World?
I don’t see how it’s gimmicky, I think it would be a neat way to re-experience a game

>I like the idea of soulless SNES games
fify

>>9873107
>widescreen is "soulless"
Ghouls 'n Ghosts is pretty wide and that's an extremely soulful game.

>>9873084
Super Metroid has one, works pretty well. F-Zero has native widescreen in bsnes-hd.

>>9873035
>not autistic
>browsing /vr/
cope.

>>9873003
don't care

>>9873084
>I don’t see how it’s gimmicky,

its gimmicky because most havent taken the time or effort to consider the things >>9873056 laid out.

>>9873128
the one shown previously for SM doesn't work very well when the widescreen reveals secret rooms that the squarescreen doesn't pan to reveal in several cases. How do you even fix that? its a design paradigm level problem.

gimmicky for many games, or poorly implemented.

>>9872996
>Does it break the difficulty by being able to see things further out?
Not just that, in SMW many entities trigger when they come onscreen, so widening the play area significantly alters the movement patterns, and trivializes most "trap" type encounters.

>>9872996
Beat super Mario World widescreen and it was fun.

These shit talking niggers have never even tried.

The pc ports of Chrono trigger and fantasy vi seem to handle widescreen well, no?

Games that work well with HD widescreen hack:
F-Zero
R-Type III
Super Mario Kart
Super Mario World
Super Castlevania IV
Albert Odyssey 2
Alien Vs. Predator
Ancient Magic Bazoo! World of Magic
Arcade's greatest hits: The Atari Collection 1
Archer McLean's Super Dropzone
Ardy Lightfoot
Art of Fighting
Axelay
Battle Racers
Binshin Densetsu Zoku
Biometal
Blackthorne
BS The Legend of Zelda: Ancient Stone Tablets
closequote
Darius Twin
Death and Return of Superman
Demon Child Zenki - Battle Raiden
Demon's Crest
Double Dragon V
Dragon Ball Z - Hyper Dimension
Dragon Ball Z - La Legende Saien
Dragon Ball Z - Super Butouden
Earth Defense Force
Earthworm Jim
Earthworm Jim 2
Equinox (Solstice 2)
Esparks
F1 World Championship Edition
F1-ROC II - Race of Champions
Fatal Fury
Fatal Fury Special
Fighters History
Fighters History - Mizoguchi Kikkippatsu!!
Final Fight Guy
Firepower 2000
Frogger
Ghost Chaser Densei
Go for it! Goemon 2 - The Strange General McGuinness
Go for it! Goemon 3 - The Mecha Leg Hold of Jurokube Shishi
Go for it! Goemon 4 - The Twinkling Journey
Go Go Ackman
Go Go Ackman 2
Go Go Ackman 3
Gojira - Kaijuu Daikessen (black sprites issue)
Gokujou Parodius
Gradius III
Great Battle V, The
GT Racing
GunForce - Battle Fire Engulfed Terror Island
Gunpuru - Gunmans Proof
Hagane - The Final Conflict
Hook
Humans, The
HyperZone

>new thing bad

>>9873240

Jikkyou Oshaberi Parodius
Joe & Mac
Joe & Mac 2 - Lost in the Tropics
Justice League Task Force
Kamen Rider SD - Shutsugeki!! Rider Machine
Kat's Run - Zen-Nihon K-Car Senshuken
Killer Instinct
Kirby Super Star
Lamborghini American Challenge
Langrisser, Der
Legend of the Mystical Ninja, The
Legend of Zelda, The - A Link to the Past
Lennus II - The Apostles of the Seals
Mario to Wario
MechWarrior 21:9
Metal Combat - Falcon's Revenge
Mickey Mania - The Timeless Adventures of Mickey Mouse
Mighty Morphin Power Rangers - The Fighting Edition
Mobile Fighter G Gundam
Mobile Suit Gundam Wing - Endless Duel
Mohawk & Headphone Jack
Mortal Kombat
Mortal Kombat 3
Mortal Kombat II
Musya - The Classic Japanese Tale of Horror
Mystic Ark
Nigel Mansell's World Championship Racing
Ninja Gaiden Trilogy
On the Ball
Operation Logic Bomb - The Ultimate
Oscar
Paladin's Quest
Parodius
Phalanx
Pilotwings
Pinball Dreams
Pinball Fantasies
Plok
Pocky & Rocky
Pocky & Rocky 2
Primal Rage
Prince of Persia 2
Putty Squad
Q-bert 3
Raiden Trad
Rival Turf!
Run Saber
S.O.S - Sink or Swim
Samurai Shodown
SD F-1 Grand Prix
Search & Destroy
Shijou Saikyou League Serie A - Ace Striker
Skyblazer
SOS (Septentrion)
Soul Blazer
Space Megaforce (Super Aleste)
Spindizzy Worlds
Stone Protectors
Street Fighter Alpha 2
Street Fighter II Turbo
Street Racer
Super Air Diver
Super Air Diver 2
Super Back to the Future Part II
Super Double Dragon
Super Formation Soccer 95 - della Serie A

Super Mario All-Stars
Super R-Type
Super Turrican
Sutte Hakkun
Tetsuwan Atom (Astro Boy)
The Adventures of Batman and Robin
Thunder Spirits
Tin Star
Tiny Toon Adventures
Twisted Tales of Spike McFang, The
Umihara Kawase
Wild Guns

>>9873229
>the one shown previously for SM doesn't work very well when the widescreen reveals secret rooms
It's probably not for first-time players. Outside of that it's quite good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV60aFKDbSM&t=129s

>>9873267
>It's probably not for first-time players
that's not an excuse
it breaks level design, sprites spawns and many more glitches. it's game breaking

>>9873267
>video
God that is such a joke.
>shitty music
>broken transitions
>bad spriting
>secrets ruined
And even the elevator is faster, lol. Yeah, let's just ignore all the tension building of the original because impatient little zoomie starts to shriek and squeal if he has to wait more than 2 seconds without bing bing wahooing. lmao

>>9872996
Mario World Widescreen looks fucking weird. Almost makes me feel like I'm playing Mario Maker because of the SMW theme in that.

>>9873309
No it doesn't.

>>9873339
There was no tension. It's an easy game and you're autistic.

>>9873339
>reveals secrets
OH NO! MUH BOMB EVERY SQUARE!!!

>>9873369
It looks like a port to switch.
Which is a good thing.

>>9873035
the contrarianism on this board is something else.
imagine some game has 2 native modes, widescreen and 4:3 with black bars. which would you choose? black bars because "that's how muh devs intended?". devs probably thought, "too bad he screen is so crammed, we wish you could see further".
but no, worse = better, you must play in 4:3 on real hardware on a CRT or else people like you will get butthurt about it.
I guess I grew up with PC, so just switching a resolution / screen aspect in a game is a norm to me. no one ever thought "Quake / Starcraft / etc was only made for 640x480 CRT screen". only on /vr/ you will find a circlejerk of autists who will screech because someone is playing in larger resolution than the "devs intended".

>>9873035
i don't get it, what if i were autistic, and i didn't like the black bars. would you somehow "win" ? that would be pretty autistic too.

>>9873483
yeah idk what that other anon means it looks weird, it looks really good

>>9873240
>>9873245
Did you ever try any of these?
Because I just tries a few and it worked like shit.
Just like genesis plus gx hd.
I hope at least mario world works.

>>9873610
Mario World uses a patch. The others have settings you have to mess with.

Its not for lazy people.

>>9873624
Show me a video or an image with gradius III running in 16:9

>>9873114
the Darius franchise is insanely wide and it's based af

Widescreen breaks most games but the majority work fine with an 8:7->4:3 hack. Helps some games with large sprites feel less cramped.

>>9873339
god i hate zoomers

>>9873473
yes it does. A lot of games has the enemies and objects not move until they come up on screen or close off screen. A widescreen hack will have to change this in some way or another, possibly breaking the timing the dev have intended for the enemy to become active making some encounter possibly easier and break other kinds of intended timing

>>9873635
I could send you a group excel file for widescreen settings, but i think you faggots would just vandalize it.

>>9873659
This is case by case you fucking faggot. That's why there's a list.

And this is not the case with super metroid with the patch, which is what you replied to, esl retard.

>>9873267
The game suddenly shifting back to 4:3 for certain areas like at 3:18 is jarring though. And there's something about the sprite sizes that make it feel off. Like there's now TOO much negative space. It's nifty, don't get me wrong, but it's not an improvement. It's more of a side gimmick to fart around with.

>>9873667
How convenient

>>9873670
And then people pointed out it ruins secrets and you see plenty of weird off tile shit
This is pointless, play normally

>>9873003
In itself an unimportant concern.

>>9873056
>No, it doesn't really modify difficulty.
I'd say that'd depend on the game in question. Any game where the camera is locked on the player and the only way to see further is to move in that direction, should be expected to need at least tweaks to enemy AI, because there's countless things where encounters are designed with the player's line of sight in mind.
Looking at Diablo 2, that's a game designed around 4:3, if you force it into 16:9 you'll see a lot of monsters standing at far sides of the screen doing nothing at all, waiting for you to come into their defined range. This obviously gives the player countless advantages and just looks awkward and bad, and they had to tweak this behavior for that remaster.

Stuff like first person shooters, or real time strategy, where you have an inherent freedom in perspective and enemies aren't constrained to operating within your field of view, are a million times less sensitive to this kind of change.

>>9873339
>And even the elevator is faster, lol.
You're not a true gamer if you don't hold the ~ key in ZSNES every time you step on an elevator in Metroid. I value my time.

>>9873856
>In itself an unimportant concern.
>proceeds to explain why dev intention is important when it comes to games designed around 4:3

>>9873495
>which would you choose
Third option, hack the game to render a larger viewport without black bars.

>>9873681
The tiles are fine.
Secrets? That's just less time bombing every square.

No, not going to play normal ever again. Fucking faggot. You type like a troon.

>>9873856
Is a tiny change that ultimately doesn't amount to a whole lot, so i don't give a fuck.

It can also make games slightly harder. One of the mario world levels will have more bullet bills since the canons are on screen.

And this too, is not that big of a deal. So i don't give a fuck.

>>9873107
>>9873241
>>9873481
What a bunch of utterly worthless posts. A pox on your prostates.

>>9873495
Widescreen isn't the exact same thing as resolution, you can increase resolution without going from 4:3 to 16:9, and you can have 16:9 at a very low resolution.

>Quake
>Starcraft
Well, no, of course not, you have virtually complete control of where you're looking at all times in those games, any advantage conferred by going to 16:9 for those games is going to be really subtle. Starcraft has Fog Of War in addition to letting you mouse around wherever and whenever, so it's of zero concern. Quake is first person 3D, and 16:9 doesn't make anything any easier or harder.

>>9873862
Because it can sometimes be accommodated for with the right effort. Again, this really varies by individual games.

Developer intentions don't need to be good, by the way. An example of shitty dev intentions is the use of the mouse with Doom's original .exe inherently tying tying back and forth movement to it, with no option of using just mouse turning without that. This worked great for Wolfenstein 3D, but is a bunch of slippery and finagling bullshit when Doom has things like inertia and variable terrain and height. It was terrible at the time and there were hacks and tricks to let you play it in a sane manner not long after launch.

>>9873861
I take that time to stretch my back or my arms, crack my knuckles, or take a swig of water.

>>9873670
There's a list, but is there a log which defines what needed to be tweaked to make the game work properly in widescreen for each example?

There's a lot of resulation in this thread. I'm going to wreck these digits.

>>9872996
I want to see gba games in 4:3

>>9873862
it's so tiresome arguing with autists

>>9873937
>>9873937
Yeah, mainly Layer 1 layer 2 Layer 3 and Window FX, which varies by game based on how they coded it.

>>9873642
Not gonna lie, a 4:3 hack for some of the games that were zoomed in compared to the Genesis versions like Earthworm Jim and Lion King would be very welcome.

>>9875195
Just play the fucking originals you idiot

>>9875310
I mean, sure, but a hack that fixes the gimped SNES versions would be welcome.

>>9873035
16:9 is objectively better for side scrolling games because the extra width is useful. The original Sonic games are way better in wide-screen for example.

I'd argue that purposefully ignoring improvements because it's not developer intended is the purest form of autism there is.

>>9873937
>oh shit, the elevator, better crack my knuckles

>>9873032
these games run on weak hardware. most entities aren't active unless they close to the player. widening the screen can cause odd things to happen that may break intentions.
for instance, OPs image shows a part of SMW where the timing of when the koopas show up and start moving is based on where the screen is. in this case, the koopas will start moving too soon and be out of the intended position when you interact with the P switch and star. it's not a major problem here, but it's unavoidable, and there are other places where it's more severe.

>>9873924
The mouse moving you forwards and backwards in the original doom is great though. It allows for micromovements like with an analog stick and you can go faster when you combine it with WASD too.

There are better examples you could have picked for bad dev intention. Having to go into the menu to change boots in OoT is the first one that springs to mind for me. If that was all that OoT redux did, I'd recommend it just for that (and you can use it just for that thanks to custom patches). Fast text too because of the differences between English and Japanese text and they forgot to speed up the text (that or they thought that westerners are retarded, that wouldn't surprise me either).

>>9875434
I beat the whole game with this hack. It didn't matter.

>>9872996
Depends on the genre. RPGs and racing games could benefit from it. You're generally breaking game design with other genres.
>>9873495
One aspect ratio isn't better than other. They have different advantages and disadvantages regarding to use case. Still wider is generally better for 3D games.
>imagine some game has 2 native modes
They don't. They were designed for 4:3. You are destroying game design.
>Quake / Starcraft
In both games you can control the camera. Don't be a retard there is obvious difference between a game in which you can control the camera and a game where you don't. Only 3D game that gets affected badly by widescreen are MGS games.

>>9872996
The enemies would trigger at the wrong time and that would fuck up the flow of a bunch of levels.

>>9876105
like Super Mario? where the screen fucking scrolls? and as such you can simply display more screen at a time, btw

>>9877476
You can see traps early on.

>>9876105
>They don't. They were designed for 4:3. You are destroying game design.
please go ahead and prove that a large part of the challenge in SMW is about not seeing too far, and losing it destroys a significant part of enjoyment from game (more than widescreen adds). I'll wait.
Inb4—the burden of proof is on you, not me. You're the one implying the game is affected by the screen size as much as picrel.

>>9878759
You're retarded if you really need me to prove anything. Go ahead and give SMW widescreen hack a try. Seeing more than intent is always going to hurt game design zoomie. Try reading about history of aspect ratios. And why stop at 16:9? I'm using ultrawide You can pretty much see the entire map on ultrawide hacks.
Keep in mind 4:3 has great advantages compared to 16:9 and 21:9

>>9878843
>You're retarded if you really need me to prove anything.
nice proof buddy. if it's so easy, you should have no difficulty proving anything. still waiting btw
>Seeing more than intent is always going to hurt game design zoomie.
another great argument here, not dogmatic at all. no proofs as expected, just "how muh devs intended". greatly argued post.
>And why stop at 16:9?
slippery slope
>Keep in mind 4:3 has great advantages
such as? let me guess, SOVL and being how the devs intended?

>>9876984
The Super Mario World widescreen hack wasn't just a simple widening of the display area using an emulator hack.
It uses the re-engineered SA-1 version as a base for performance improvements, and re-implements logic that uses the screen boundaries for enemy behaviour.
Things intended for a single screen display are adjusted. For example, in the final boss fight against Bowser instead of widening the footing, it becomes possible to fall down with no screen boundaries you keep you in.

https://github.com/VitorVilela7/wide-snes

It does require use a special emulator called bsnes-HD with the goal of enhancing SNES games with functionality not possible on real hardware, but following a standard that would allow hacked and re-engineered games to run in proper 16:9 or 16:10.

>devs inten-ACKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK ACK ACK ACK ACK ACK

You aren’t friends with the devs you don’t know their intent. If you met the dev IRL they’d probably say who’s this fat fucking gaijin screeching about aspect ratio. Quit larping as a developer *or* a developers friend.

>>9873003
the devs intended for you to shut the fuck up

>>9878927
>>You're retarded if you really need me to prove anything.
>nice proof buddy. if it's so easy, you should have no difficulty proving anything. still waiting btw
>>Seeing more than intent is always going to hurt game design zoomie.
>another great argument here, not dogmatic at all. no proofs as expected, just "how muh devs intended". greatly argued post.
Read original message I've posted. >>9876105 For some genres wide aspect ratio comes with no negatives and they are a direct improvement.. Yet 4:3 is still better for other genres.

>>And why stop at 16:9?
>slippery slope
Why "slippery slope"? I have 21:9. What makes 16:9 better than 21:9?
>>Keep in mind 4:3 has great advantages
>such as? let me guess, SOVL and being how the devs intended?
As I've already told you read history of aspect ratios for an actual answer. There are many research available online regarding aspect ratios.

>>9878987
>Seeing more than intent is always going to hurt game design zoomie.
>You are destroying game design.
> You're generally breaking game design with other genres.
never you made any real argument, you just imply what you say is true.
>As I've already told you read history of aspect ratios for an actual answer. There are many research available online regarding aspect ratios.
what the fuck do you even mean? how is this related to SMW in particular? what exactly it is about the history of resolutions that makes widescreen SMW bad? how about you give one actual argument in this whole goddamn thread?
if you can't give evidence or argue your point, then you should stop posting.

>>9879002
You can see traps easily. You can stop running forward much earlier on. Just play both 4:3 and 16:9 and compare it. If you've already played it before it becomes less of an issue which is because you already know how map works. Even at the very beginning of the game with low ground and bullet speaks for itself. You are panicking if you don't know how it works with wider aspect ratio that part of the level becomes irrelevant as you can already see low ground before bullet. You are destroying the game design.
>history of resolutions
Aspect ratios. Wider isn't always better and when it is, there is no reason to stop at 16:9.

>>9873003
Yes it was. They all explicitly wanted the widest screen possible. I personally interviewed every one of them. Not my fault you don’t have my sources.

>>9879038
Seems like a good thing. I can see the bullet earlier.

>>9879038
>You can stop running forward much earlier on.
Mario doesn't test your reflexes much like that anyway. And yes, I've played SMW a lot like half of this board.
>Even at the very beginning of the game with low ground and bullet speaks for itself.
that's about the only case where I agree, and there aren't many reflex tests like this one in the game. i recall sleeping guys fly like this in ghost houses, but in general enemy movement in SMB is mostly slow, you don't have bullet bills flying around all the time, and frankly stuff like this always feels a bit cheap (though this is subjective). this isn't some shmup where stuff flies at you full speed.

>>9878613
Whoopdie doo