/vr/ - Retro Games

>>VMU gimmick
nigga is this supposed to be a selling point?

>>9857371
Not enough of a big graphical leap, DC looks like a N64 1.2.

Shadow Man is actually better on N64.

the genesis was lightning in a bottle. they ruined their mindshare with all their retarded add-on plus the saturn. no one was getting fooled again, despite the fact that the dreamcast was actually a good console.

9 million sales in 2 years is a good number. Also the library isn't solid, it was mostly arcade ports and time delayed multiplats. You HAVE to be someone who wants arcade games to like the Dreamcast.

>>9857405
>9 million sales in 2 years is a good number.
Not when you realise many units were sold in 2001 when the console was in the bargain bin.

15 minute arcade ports for $40.

>>9857371
it's library was good but it was not a library that was geared for commercial success.

Arcade style games were on the way out and they have stayed that way. Dreamcast could have done better but the library held it back extremely, SEGA would basically need to act like a different company and start pushing cinematic games and JRPGs if they wanted the DC to actually live.

>>9857371
magazines were bought by sony

>>9857371
They burned people with a shitty addon that was discontinued after a year, and burned people AGAIN with a shitty console that was discontinued after 2 years. At this point anyone with 2 neurons firing would have reservations about buying another Sega console.

>>9857371
32X, Saturn, PS2. Without those Dreamcast would've stayed around for longer.

consumers were told that 2d games and arcade experiences are worthless. you can blame sony like usual.

>>9857371
the console race was very tight in the 90s. Saturn failed hard in the West, selling just around 3 million units in US+EU. that was a fatal blow to Sega. by the time DC came out, they were almost written off. no one would give them second chances.
DC wasn't a bad console. What killed it was Saturn, PS2, and terrible timing. If Sega started with something like it in 1994 and switched from arcades to home market, things would've been better for them.

>>9857402
This, it was a sins of our fathers scenario. Tendiefaggots have shown that consoles can exist outside the norm and do well, the Dreamcast didn’t fail because of “too much soul” which is a common trope on here. It failed because sega fucked up time and time again and burned their consumers with a mix of greed, retardation, and looking completely disorganized on the public stage. The Dreamcast didn’t fail, sega failed and the Dreamcast was a casualty of it.

>>9857415
They were not, don't talk about subjects you're guessing at. Dreamcast regular sold at the rate it was shipped. Consoles rarely get manufactured at a rate significantly faster than sales, and the Dreamcast was not an example of that. In fact the only console since the 90s that did that was the PS3 at launch. Even consoles that performed much worse than expected like the GBA micro, PSP, Xbox One (at launch) never significantly manufactured more than the rate of sales.

>>9857394
>DC looks like a N64 1.2.
do tendies really?

>>>9857405
>>>9857415
9 million in 2 years isn't that great either. we're talking GC-level sales, and that's before 6th gen truly hit when DC would've been demolished. the key market for Sega was the US, so not only they were against PS2, they were against XBox which was made for America. no wonder they quit, they'd be a dead 4th place behind GC.

>>9857534
>Dreamcast didn’t fail because of “too much soul” which is a common trope on here.
KEK What retarded line of thinking is even used to justify of that being the case? This "muh soul" meme has really tainted people's brains.

You tell, op.

That picture is laughable.
Bad arcade ports
Weird experimental japanese games no one cared about at the time
FPS games with shit controller
Some really bad games
ps1 ports no one needed twice

>>9857371
Gamecube sold 10 million in its first two years, despite not being axed 16 months in -- consider for a moment just how bad that is, it's like tying with a paraplegic in a race.
>>9857529
>9 million in 2 years isn't that great either. we're talking GC-level sales
No there really is no comparison there unless Gamecube production was halted very quickly.
>no wonder they quit, they'd be a dead 4th place behind GC.
lol

It was fine, but Segas financials were in the shitter and the PS2 was hyped and ready to dominate. Also, it didn't help a parts shortage stunted a release that was otherwise pretty well received.

>>9857371
They were appealing to a dying demographic and ran out of money. If they had been smart, they could've nabbed the GCN's target market and stayed around a little longer, but instead they focused on arcade and multiplayer stuff in a time when "epic" games like OoT and FF7 had already been out for years and made this shit seem archaic and shallow (even if that isn't the case). It had bigger games like Sonic Adventure or Shenmue too, but it wasn't enough. You had a company posting 200m dollar yearly operating losses while hemorrhaging money on dumb shit like edgy advertisements, celebrity endorsements, and producing a thousand peripherals for a DOA console that 1% of owners ever bought. This is to say nothing of other bizarre things they were doing like giving away free Dreamcasts to people who signed up for SegaNet or slashing hardware prices by $50 every year. The DC was an amazing console, partly due to this complete disregard for business accumen that allowed for risks to be taken and innovative features to be added; but it was doomed from the start.

>>9857394
>Not enough of a big graphical leap, DC looks like a N64 1.2.
Is this bait? The only games that look better than the shenmue games are the best looking games on the next gen like mgs 2/3 and FF10. The only way your comment would make sense is if you only played last gen rereleases on the DC. Shenmue 2 on xbox didn't feel out of place at all.

>>9857402
>>9857534
DC had one of the most successful launches in history. You two are thinking of the saturn. SEGA were just unable to maintain the popularity in face of the competition.

>>9858909
Which is exactly what I said, that the Dreamcast didn’t fail, sega did.

>>9858935
>Which is exactly what I said
You said it failed because of the genesis era mistakes losing consumer confidence. That's not what happened, that's what hurt the saturn along other things, but the DC was very popular until the competition just offered a better deal, or at least convinced people they did. The PS2 being a DVD player was a big deal and they had managed to convince people that the thing was military grade technology. Not to mention after the success of the ps1, they hype from that alone was enough to blow anything else out of the water.

So in short, consumers didn't shun the dreamcast because of SEGA but because they felt there was a better deal elsewhere.

>>9858651
>No there really is no comparison there unless Gamecube production was halted very quickly.
DC was going vs 5th gen. GC was going vs 6th gen. DC had an advantage over competition during its 2 years, it'd get wrecked by actual next gen hardware.

>>9857371
A lot of good answers in this thread. Basically the Dreamcast is like a 9/10 girl that couldn’t keep a boyfriend to stay with her. You think they’re all stupid until you actually date the girl and realize all the little flaws that make her a complete mess. Basically the Dreamcast was a hot girl with a borderline personality disorder.

>>9857371
It sold 10 mill in less than 3 years, that's pretty good
Dreamcast was pretty popular in its heydey but then the PS2 rolled around to make it irrelevant. SEGA blowing money on Shenmue probably hastened their exit too

>>9859029
Physical arcades would've died anyway but with any other company I think DC would've survived as budget hardware, after all it nearly beat the Wii U in its 2 years. The original Wii for example may be better hardware but the DC has a better library of physical games, ideally DC should've turned up on the virtual console.

Think about it from the perspective of someone who bought into the Mega Drive add ons and the Saturn. Should I risk Sega fucking me over a fourth time, or get a PS2 which can play all my PS1 games and includes a free DVD player?

genius usually isn't understood in its own time

If you didn't buy the PS1 then you probably wouldn't have much interest in buying a new full price console to play PS1 games 4 years later

>>9857371
Dream cast was a premium console. I remember I couldn't afford it when it came out which is probably the exact reason why it failed.

>>9859341
What a crazy fucking idea I'm sad this never worked out. Would be cool to see Sega partner with nintendo more and crank out some new arcade port type stuff for Switch, but that would require them trying, or caring, or releasing games people want, or comping up with new ideas, or not buying mobile game companies, or or or etc.

Does anyone think there would be a market for an anologue pocket style console that basically cloned the dreamcast? the same controller layout with VMU support and maybe an online functionality? I know Id cream for it, but I might be in the minority. I know some people would say emulate, but the games just feel different with the real controller and even though most games didnt really use the VMU I kind of like it

>>9857371
>Sega spent way too much money fucking around with stupid shit like the 32X that did nothing but cannibalize Saturn sales
>Sega also spent too much money on niche hardware like a bulky handheld Genesis called the Nomad which was not profitable
>Sega spent too much money on bleeding-edge arcade games mass-produced with state-of-the-art military simulation hardware (these games were very successful, but not globally like Sega may have anticipated)
>botched Saturn launch by having a higher price than the PS1, having a surprise day-and-date release with E3 years before viral marketing was a viral business strategy with the advent of social media and pissed-off retailers and devs in the process
>Saturn never really recovered from its poor launch since there was no killer-app with mass-market Western appeal, while Sonic X-Treme crashed and burned like the Hindenburg and Bernie was like "lol the Shiturn fucking sucks, don't buy one" at E3, losing Sega tons and tons more money in the process
>Dreamcast did not have a DVD player like the PS2 did, making it a less-enticing long-term investment like the PS2 was to normies in spite of its weaker software lineup up to that point, and the Dreamcast would need to be the fastest-selling console of all time just to break even and recoup Sega's losses from their mid-90's hardware which was unrealistic to say the least
>Sega also spent way too much money on the incredibly-ambitious Shenmue which was not profitable regardless of your feelings on the game itself it's a very good game imo but it didn't have much mass-market Western appeal

Part of me admires Sega's willingness to take risks, but they were far too reckless and arrogant with their business decisions to the point they likely would've crumbled like a futon even if the PS2 didn't exist and people would just blame Nintendo or the Xbox instead.

>>9857371 (OP)
>Sega spent way too much money fucking around with stupid shit like the 32X that did nothing but cannibalize Saturn sales
>Sega also spent too much money on niche hardware like a bulky handheld Genesis called the Nomad which was not profitable
>Sega spent too much money on bleeding-edge arcade games mass-produced with state-of-the-art military simulation hardware (these games were very successful, but not globally like Sega may have anticipated)
>botched Saturn launch by having a higher price than the PS1, having a surprise day-and-date release with E3 years before viral marketing was a viable business strategy with the advent of social media and pissed-off retailers and devs in the process
>Saturn never really recovered from its poor launch since there was no killer-app with mass-market Western appeal, while Sonic X-Treme crashed and burned like the Hindenburg and Bernie was like "lol the Shiturn fucking sucks, don't buy one" at E3, losing Sega tons and tons more money in the process
>Dreamcast did not have a DVD player like the PS2 did, making it a less-enticing long-term investment like the PS2 was to normies in spite of its weaker software lineup up to that point, and the Dreamcast would need to be the fastest-selling console of all time just to break even and recoup Sega's losses from their mid-90's hardware which was unrealistic to say the least
>Sega also spent way too much money on the incredibly-ambitious Shenmue which was not profitable regardless of your feelings on the game itself it's a very good game imo but it didn't have much mass-market Western appeal

Part of me admires Sega's willingness to take risks, but they were far too reckless and arrogant with their business decisions to the point they likely would've crumbled like a futon even if the PS2 didn't exist and people would just blame Nintendo or the Xbox instead.

>>9857371
>Sega spent way too much money fucking around with stupid shit like the 32X that did nothing but cannibalize Saturn sales
>Sega also spent too much money on niche hardware like a bulky handheld Genesis called the Nomad which was not profitable
>Sega spent too much money on bleeding-edge arcade games mass-produced with state-of-the-art military simulation hardware (these games were very successful, but not globally like Sega may have anticipated)
>botched Saturn launch by having a higher price than the PS1, having a surprise day-and-date release with E3 years before viral marketing was a viable business strategy with the advent of social media and pissed-off retailers and devs in the process
>Saturn never really recovered from its poor launch since there was no killer-app with mass-market Western appeal, while Sonic X-Treme crashed and burned like the Hindenburg and Bernie was like "lol the Shiturn fucking sucks, don't buy one" at E3, losing Sega tons and tons more money in the process
>Dreamcast did not have a DVD player like the PS2 did, making it a less-enticing long-term investment like the PS2 was to normies in spite of its weaker software lineup up to that point, and the Dreamcast would need to be the fastest-selling console of all time just to break even and recoup Sega's losses from their mid-90's hardware which was unrealistic to say the least
>Sega also spent way too much money on the incredibly-ambitious Shenmue which was not profitable regardless of your feelings on the game itself it's a very good game imo but it didn't have much mass-market Western appeal

Part of me admires Sega's willingness to take risks, but they were far too reckless and arrogant with their business decisions to the point they likely would've crumbled like a crouton even if the PS2 didn't exist and people would just blame Nintendo or the Xbox instead.

>>9859618
FPGA hardware with the horsepower needed to replicate the Dreamcast would be unfathomably-expensive. You'd more than likely get some chink/pajeet arm/android shitbox clone console running on emulation.

>>9859642
it seems like it! I was just reading an article about how the gdrom setup makes everything much more expensive. I guess the best option would be to have some kind of a mini pc with an emulator and a dreamcast clone controller.

>>9859637
>Shenmue was actually good tho..
Yeah, hiding it under spoiler tags won't save you. Not only was it the very first walking sim, it was the first game to introduce QTEs. The tech behind it was impressive, but Shenmue 3 proved that when you strip all of the Sega nostalgia and licensed arcade games out it has nothing to offer. When Yakuza came along it put Shenmue in its fucking place.

>>9859637
>"lol the Shiturn fucking sucks"

was bernie one of was

>>9859663
I can see why people don't like it, I'm just stating I personally like it for what it is. Shenmue III's problem is that it refused to evolve the series in any meaningful way (gameplay or story) despite being the first installment in nearly 20 years. It would've been kino if RGG worked on it instead of whatever Yu Suzuki's kickstarter jank team was.

>>9859682
I don't think Suzuki and his team even understood what you guys liked about the first two. They supposedly made the voice acting sound amateur on purpose, I guess to match the first game? They also dumbed down the combat for accessibility reasons. I guess they thought their target audience were millennial hipsters?

>>9859717
That's the impression I got. They just kinda threw something together based-on an original concept for the unreleased Dreamcast follow-up back when they still had a long line of installments planned with no real attempt to embrace the old games' strengths or move the game's story forward. They needed a polished, well-produced palette cleanser if they wanted any chance at moving the series forward or getting anyone else on-board with it, not a janky remake of a Dreamcast game on Soullessreal Engine 4 hinging on crowdfund money.

>>9859717
Maybe they should have had some guys on the shenmuedojo community + old devs make a game with dreamcast style graphics and gameplay. It was always a niche title anyway, I think the game would have been more sucessful.

>>9858908
Dreamcast is in the same gen as ps2 and xbox

>>9857371
>by far the best home console graphics in the 1990s
>Release date in the US: September 1999
>>9859637
Couldn't have said it better myself. Not enough people bring up Shenmue when talking about Sega's downfall.
Sega wanted another cutting edge product like Virtua Fighter or Daytona, but they ended up with a vanity project that set them back around $70 million.

>>9860228
It was the single most expensive video game ever produced until GTAIV came out in 2008. Even more expensive than FFVII which is wild to think.

I probably played this game the most on Dreamcast, more than all the other games I had put together. Granted my other games were Sonic Adventure 1, Power Stone 2, Marvel vs Capcom 2, and Ready2Rumble

was really confused when it wasn't like gundam wing on TV but eventually learned about the Universal Century timeline through it

Why do we have this same thread every month?

>>9857371
No distribution channels, was not on sale in blockbusters, could not play DVDs and was competing with a backward compatible playstation 2 that could do all these things and had a better library of games and a nintendo product that was monopolising the infant/child safe bright colours market in order to survive. Never even saw one on sale.

...didn't have COD or GTA.

>>9860717
I miss the guitar hero games. Which there would be a revival with a universal controller.

>>9857371
If Sega didn't run out of money I honestly think Dreamcast could have made it to 2004 or 2005. All those PS2/GC/XBOX Sega games would have kept the DC relevant even if it was underpowered. Sega would have probably collapsed anyway before 7th gen started but if Dreamcast had a full lifespan I could see it hitting similar numbers to Gamecube and Xbox, maybe slightly better since it was out longer.

>>9860327
Nigger, it's a retro board, we don't have new games to talk about

>>9860717
I was vaguely aware of Call of Duty but didn't realise that it was all that zoomers were really playing for a decade. Are they all a bunch of John Boltons?