/vr/ - Retro Games

Zelda II = LttP
LttP > Zelda I

I completely agree with that, OP.

I wouldn't say World is worse than SMB1, but it's definitely worse than SMB3.

by "worse" do you mean that you don't prefer them, or are you trying to appeal to an external standard that people here accept?

if so, what's that standard? what makes the NES predecessors superior?

Alright, the first two I can accept, but how in the world is the original Metroid superior to Super?

I like Top Gear 2 over Top Gear 1.

>>984751
good luck with that conversation

I thought most people agreed that Mario World is boring and rushed.

>>984783
It really was. Personally I'm not a fan of most of the retro Mario games, mostly because of the controls, but SMW is especially bad.

>Super Mario World
If you mean SMB3 is superior, then you have a point. Personally, I can't choose between the two and pick a solid favourite since they're both so damn good, but I get what you mean.
>Link to the Past
LoZ is a lot more open-ended, which I like, but only being able to move in 4 directions makes it pretty frustrating at times.
>Super Metroid
That lack of map makes me go insane, but I can see how some people like being a rat in a maze.

All in all, I'd say it depends on whether or not you like being left to your own devices or given hints now and again.

>>984705
>Zelda II
>Anything but the worst game in the series

>>984794
Yes, I´m pretty sure is so bad nobody ever played it... owait...

SMB 1, 2, 3 > SMW, SMW2
LoZ 1, 2 > LttP

>>984805

>Zelda II
>Worst game in the series
>Not Wind Waker

This is like saying 11 free beers is worse than 12 free beers. They are all wonderful games, (cannot comment on Super Metroid, never played).

>>984794
Bad controls? What is wrong with you? Are you missing some fingers or something?

>>984794
Yes, I´m pretty sure is so bad nobody ever played it... owait...

>>984812
>Not Phantom Hourglass
Step up, chumps.

>>984815
I recommend it, starts slow... but gets ridiculously better

>>984812
>>984821
Not Faces of Evil, Wand of Gamelon, or Zelda's Adventure.

>>984815
I'm not saying they're bad, I'm just saying that I could never get the hang of moving Mario around.

Conker's Bad Fur Day has good presentation elements, but is too slow and draggy. I think there's too many cutscenes.

-Super Mario World is, I think, much less polished than super Mario brothers 3. If you're basis of comparison is the original super Mario brothers I think that is a much harder sell.

>>984768
Can't speak for OP, but I think you could make a case that the atmosphere of Metroid has a science fantasy feel to it, whereas Super Metroid borrow heavily on moody scifi films like alien, yet still is kind of silly and comic booky

>>984843
I suppose that case needs to be made; I really don't know what you mean by that.

Stone Tower Temple has a cool idea, but the dungeon, IMO, has a pretty horrible design. It's actually extremely linear to get through to the end. I'm shocked that some people think it's one of the best dungeons in the series.

SMB World is indeed overrated, especialy compared to 3.

>>984828

Stop bringing that irrelevant shit up. It's like saying Turkish Star Wars is the worst Star Wars movie.

>>984843

I do think that the original Super Mario Bros. is superior to World. I supposed it just comes down to taste. But I like the levels and challenge more in the original, plus I feel like there's more mystery with cooler secrets (whereas most of the secrets in Mario World are more marked and obvious).

Mario World feels very bland to me. There's just a real lack of wonder IMO. To me pretty much all the levels feel dull until forest of illusions, which itself isn't that special. The Star World is the best part of the game and it's a secret.

>>984861
I don't know, it seems like most people here gush over 3 a lot more than World.

Metroid II > Super

>mario
agreed. 3 is a multi-layered masterpiece and in the top ten games of all time in terms of controls, physics, and level design. world was a downgrade on a massive scale that's only remembered as fondly as it is because it looked slightly better due to being on newer hardware.

>zelda
debatable, but i see where you're coming from. it really comes down to what it is that you personally appreciate about zelda games, and which game in the series showcases those elements better.

>metroid
explain yourself.

some people see link to the past as a refinement of zelda 1, but I actually see them as two entirely different games that focus on different things.

Ocarina of Time has better sidequests than Majora's Mask.

Unpopular? These are all pretty reasonable.

>Super Mario World
Awesome game, but, yeah, 1 and 3 are definitely superior gameplay and challenge.

>Link to the Past
Okay, that's unpopular, but I agree.

>Super Metroid
Wait, nevermind, you're certifiably insane.

>>984798
I actually enjoy the lack of map. It's a feature.

But Super is better, despite.

>>984859
I think it is the best dungeon in Majora's Mask (not saying much). I also really enjoyed the events leading up to it. Getting the water wheel turning, the castle, ect. I've been playing it recently trying to get everything. Eight more heart pieces and I'm at 100%.

>>984805
Really? You honestly think Phantom Hourglass is a better game than Adventure of Link?!

>>984768
Well, for one thing, the original Metroid actually allows you to get lost instead of arbitrarily locking large portions of the game off with different door and block types.

For another, the original Metroid actually puts up a fight.

>>984835
I want to be as reasonable as I can, but I cannot understand at all how that's possible.

While there are a few exceptions, JRPGs (including FF6) are shit.
P&P RPGs requires human players and human DMs and WRPGs are ruined by their constant striving (and inevitable failing) to be P&P RPGs on computers.

>>984861
>>984867
>>984885
>>984889
These are not unpopular.

>>984918

you're crazy if you don't think the last one is unpopular

>>984824
i just got finished on the left side of the map/world where the ship crashes.

still slow but i'm hoping for it to become good.

>>984910 .

>arbitrarily
I don't think you know what this word means. The cut off points in Super are very purposeful, and designed to force you to find key power ups so you can move through these spots, or be otherwise creative. Feel free to hate that, but it is absolutely not arbitrary. Which, again, makes me think you didn't mean to use arbitrarily, or you just don't know what it means.

>>984923
Thinking Majora is better might be unpopular (it certainly isn't here).

Thinking Majora had better side quests is completely common and accepted.

>>984929

he said OoT has better sidequests.

>>984889
This is actually a very interesting point of view, and one that I partially agree with. I consider OoT to be a far better game then MM, the biggest reason being that it does a much better job of integrating its quests and secrets into the world at large and letting you discover them as part of an organic world. MM is far more contrived and most things are tied to specific schedules and events or constrained to a specific part of the world. There are exceptions to this (for instance, the jam session and ??? hand quests), but MM overall isn't anywhere near as fun to explore and lacks that carefully constructed atmosphere of OoT.

>unpopular opinions about games developed by Nintendo

always thought this was funny

>>984938

I think OoT's Hyrule might be the best world created in a Zelda game, because it feels so cohesive. It feels smartly put together, but also not ridiculously labored over.

I think this opinion is unpopular, and I know I will get yelled at. Conker's Bad Fur Day is one of the best games of all time, and it is largely held up due to its writing. The writing blows away pretty much everything else in gaming (save for a select few). People think of CBFD as just movie parities and shit jokes, but at its core it is this post-modern take down of 3D Platformers at the time, while also having a strong absurdist quality to the plot.

Alright, flame me now.

>>984938

I don't get exactly what you mean, and I'm interested. How does OoT intergrate its quest in a way that MM doesn't, and how is it more organic? I do like OoT, I'm just curious why you would think those things. And how is the jam session an exception?

I have nothing good to say about this game.

>>984987

I actually just started playing the game...And I really got a kick out of the "context sensitive...sensitive to context" part. I don't know, I thought that was just hilarious or some reason.

I didn't initially believe it was uncommon until now, but I found SMW better than its predecessors. There were many fun secrets that I could eventually figure out without a guide, it was faster, more colorful with better music, more varied level terrain as well as design, more gameplay options (spin jump, yoshi, punching climbable fence openings to traverse to other side of fence, etc) which allowed for more creativity for gamers as well as level designers, and half the game cannot literally be skipped by the special items you are spoonfed, forcing you to improve your skills.

I think the metal gear solid games are boring

>>985037

The music is actually one of the things that annoys me about SMW.

All the levels have the same song, it's just a variation in tempo. And it's not even that good of a melody to begin with. The best music (IMO) is the map theme for Forest of illusions.

>>985024
....get out.

>>985050

Not him, but Secret of Mana is mediocre shit.
So is SD3.

>>985024
I really can't get into this game at all. I thought SD3 and LoM were both better.

>>985062

what's SD3?

>>985072
Seiken Densetsu 3. The next game in the series.

>>984925
>The cut off points in Super are very purposeful
You are analyzing Super Metroid from a designer perspective, not a player perspective. To a player, the cut-off points are completely arbitrary and serve to piss off someone who wants the freedom to actually explore.

>and designed to force you to find key power ups so you can move through these spots
Which is why Super is inferior to the original. The original allowed you to access areas you might not be prepared for. It was a test of survival.

resident evil is the biggest pile of shit I've ever played

>>985037
yeah but you don't have to replay everything in smw every time you turn the console off, you can save your game. whistles serve the same function.

>>984690
Do...you actually have that opinion?

I just finished Rondo of Blood. Dracula X was better.

I just -don't- like Chrono Trigger. I tried. I actively looked for positive things to say about the game, but found very few. The music here and there was pretty decent. I played up to the point where you're in some kind of...either far-in-the-future time or...whenever, and there's like a massive chain connecting a floating city to...shit...I don't know. I just couldn't continue and finally dropped it.

I'm sorry, /vr/, but Chrono Trigger just does NOT appeal to me.

Neither do any of the Final Fantasies after 8, which I preferred to 7.

A Link to The Past was good as all fucking fuck.

>>985461
The original allowed you to enter areas in which you could not jump high enough to get any farther than the door.

Earthbound was incredibly dated even for the time it came out.

>>984821
>Not Spirit Tracks
Step up, chump.

There is no game that deserves a sequel more than Ogre Battle, aside from Final Fantasy Tactics, which deserves a PROPER sequel.

>>985498
The only room where that was actually a problem was the room that leads you to the Varia Suit, and you could just bomb jump your way up there anyway.

>>984690
spoiler because it always enduces a raging shitfest

i dislike all mario, zelda, metroid, FF games and consider them severely overhyped

>>984828
Correct.

Amen.

>>985571
You dislike them because other people like them?

/v/ much?

>>984690

Super Mario Bros. is nearly a perfect game, and SMW is only great. So yes, I'll agree there.

LOZ and LttP seem about a draw in terms of quality and advancement. Zelda is the right difficulty, but to me LttP defines SNES gaming.

Super Metroid might have needed to be harder, and feel more like a maze, but otherwise it improved on the original in every way.

>>985571
agreed on the FF part
even BOF2 felt better
zelda was a love/hate for me on the snes
I've got nothing against mario though

>>984783
>>984794

>>985037

SMB3 sold more copies (I think), but to this day I see and hear people talking about SMW *much* more than SMB3. I don't think it's an unpopular opinion at all.

>>984690
Your opinions aren't necessarily unpopular.

They're just wrong.

SMW has considerably less varied environments than SMB3, which can lead to boredom. However, the ability to replay most levels is a huge, huge boon, and its power-up system actually makes sense, rather than being a contrived, chaotic mess like SMB3s, the overpowered cape nonwithstanding.

Overall, I'd give the nod to SMW, albeit by a slim margain.

LttP isn't exactly a great Zelda game - the first truly great Zelda is Link's Awakening -, and dumbing down the combat to LoZ levels when AoL introuced mechanics that wouldn't be surpassed until the Wii was a huge disappointment, but it finally stepped away from the dungeon crawling and NOTHING ELSE of its predecessors, adding charme and a sense of humour that'd been sorely lacking until then. The loss of AoL's massive overworld was kinda sad-ish, but on the other hand, getting rid of xp = good. It's massively superior to LoZ, and I'd give it the nod, however slightly, over AoL, too.

>>984805
>>984812
>mfw people hate on Zelda 2 simply because it was different than Zelda 1
>mfw I liked Zelda 2 better than Zelda 1 because it has far less flaws and less annoying
>mfw I liked Majora's Mask better than Ocarina of Time
>mfw I liked the Oracle games better than Link's Awakening
>mfw I liked Wind Waker
>mfw I think Phantom Hourglass is the worst game
mfw anybody doesn't believe that Link to the Past isn't the best Zelda game

>>984690
Agree with Zelda 1 being best. I want to believe original Metroid is better than Super... I just can't ignore how perfectly put together Super is though... But it is close. And original Mario is good for nostalgia and setting a high bar. But theres so much more play value in World.

>>984690

I disagree but I can see the case for all of those except Metroid.

>>985729
Majora's Mask is the best Zelda game

Also there are plenty of reasons to dislike Zelda 2 on it own merits apart from it being different from the sequel.

>>985729
>mfw I hate Zelda 1 and 2 equally

>>986159

Zelda 1 is a game that is more fun on subsequent playthroughs.

I can't get into the original Duck Tales. I played the sequel when I was a kid and loved it. I emulated it years later, and liked it enough to 100% it. Then I tried the original, and I can't ever bring myself to play it more than 20 minutes.

I thought the Nintendo controller was easy to use.

Donkey Kong Country is boring.

Its power ups are meh, its pace is meh, and it was only liked for its graphics. In its time there were so many better sidescrolling games to play that playing it was a waste of time when Megaman, Castlevania, Sonic, Mario, Earthworm Jim, etc were options. It wasn't bad just horribly average.

Ocarina of Time wasn't even that good then.

Its not bad, but the camera is wonky even with centering and the auto-jump shit sucked ass. The running around was sometimes annoying and felt less interesting than previous games. There were a lot of other games at the time better at the whole 3D thing and plenty with more interesting environments.

I catch shit for those opinions but hey I can at least name games to compare.

>>986194
>Donkey Kong Country is boring.
>Its power ups are meh, its pace is meh, and it was only liked for its graphics.
But DKC doesn't have any power-ups whatsoever.

>>986248
I would consider the animals you can ride to be power ups.

They give you special abilities and slightly change gameplay. Worked better in Kirby.

Pokemon RBY hold up very well to this day. The glitches are not a big issue tot heir gameplay and in fact make the game more interesting if you do choose to exploit them, like Super Mario Bros. The fact that almost every Pokemon is useable in a serious battle makes the mechanics more interesting than the improved mechanics of later games that renders most of the Pokemon useless outside of tiers.

>>985591
the "you just don't like them because others do" is what actually makes me beyond mad, not the games themselves (which otherwise i would just ignore)

>>985472
thank you god I totally agree

>>985024
i... actually sorta agree.... i got it for super nintendo expecting a masterpiece.

Aside from a few exceptions, Japanese games are infantile trash.

>>986665
looks like you havent played many japanese games...

>>986665

Aside from a few exceptions, your taste is shit

This game is better than smb3

>>986665

>>984690
You are wrong on Super Metroid, but right with the others. SMB3 is better than world and alttp is worse than both NES titles.

And here is mine: turn based rpgs that are based on combat are utter shit. I kinda like rpgs like Dragon Quest because the main point is the exploration (but even then I am not too big on them), but I can not play rpgs like SMT or Might and Magic no matter how much I try to see good things in them.

>>985502
This is more of a fact than an opinion.

Still love the game regardless

>>985571
While I don't dislike any of the games you mention, I agree that there is too much hype surrounding them. Games like Super Metroid, SMB3, LTTP, or FFVII are great games, but they aren't the end-all be-all of gaming, and often people praise them without balancing it with either the games faults or by properly explaining what kind of experience it offers. I imagine a lot of these games get played because of the constant word of mouth and then are completely underwhelming.

>>987049
>I imagine a lot of these games get played because of the constant word of mouth and then are completely underwhelming.
This happened to me with many, many popular games. At least it is awesome when the opposite happens.

The Virtual Boy was pretty rad.

>>986665
Aside from a few exceptions, most games are Japanese

>>987058

Especially for those who like migraines in their games.

Ocarina of Time gets called overrated so much, it's almost underrated.

Same for Final Fantasy 7.

I find this game to be really dull and worse than previous games.

I love the first area though.

>>985024
Did you like the music at least?

>>985050
Sorry, Anon. I just find the game boring, clunky, and frustrating.

>>987270
Not really.

>>987250
>So overrated, it's underrated
Huh?

I'd say misrepresented. There is no way OoT and FF7 aren't overrated.

Ninja Gaiden 3 is the best in the nes trilogy

Mother 1 is superior to Earthbound.

>>987326

Yes. YES.

Fucking thank you. I can not believe how many people say "skip Mother 1 it's shit EB is better in every way it's just a prototype", even within the fanbase.

I don't understand why people hate final fantasy 8 so much, i played it for the first time a few months ago execting the most boring, dull, awful final fantasy, but i find it an extremely customizable jrpg, that has lots of ways to play.

The story maybe its not nothing special but the last part of disc 1 and the war scene in disc 2 are pretty good, maybe the only thing that i didn't like much was the characters, but graphics, music and atmosphere are pretty good too. Maybe it's not the best final fantasy but definetly not of the worst.

>>987602
Fuck, i wrote "maybe its not norhing special" instead of nothing special.

>>987297

I don't think OoT is overrated, I genuinely think it's one of the best games ever.

I would definitely say it gets too much hate on 4chan, but that's my opinion.

I feel like Zelda would be better if you didn't have to use items. It's annoying always having to press start to switch items. I feel like it disrupts the action.

>>987679
That is one of the things I have against the gameboy zeldas. Doesn't really bother me too much in the others.

SM3 can certainly be argued against SMW but Zelda's a little harder case to make, Man. I mean I appreciate Zelda 2 and am playing it right now and Zelda 1 is great but LTTP really kicked it up a notch... Should I assume you think they ignored Zelda 2 too much?

>>985461
That doesn't make them arbitrary. That's not what arbitrary means. Misunderstood or confusing maybe, but not arbitrary.

If they make it superior, that is an opinion. It does not make them arbitrary.

>>984931
Oh shit. My bad.

That's just crazy.

I'm going to agree with the sentiment that The Adventure of Link is ass.

Super Mario Bros. USA isn't a real Mario game.

>>987768
I'm assuming you meant SMB 2.

>>987773
Super Mario Bros. 2 is the game with that title released on the Famicom Disk System (the "lost levels"). Super Mario Bros. USA was the name that the altered version of Doki Doki Panic (that we received as "Super Mario Bros. 2") was released under in Japan.

>>984690
SMB3>SMW>>>SMB
LTTP>>>>>>>LOZ>LOZ2
Super Metroid>>metroid2>metroid

>>987778
thanks underage, that is common knowledge to us folk on /vr/ super mario bros 2/USA is a real mario game and a damn good mario game too.

>>987790
No, it's not a Mario game. Sorry.

>>984690
a link to the past is just overrated in general.

>>987804

by who? i've heard from every single person with an opinion on the matter (IRL and on the internet) that link's awakening and the GBC were better.

i see people say "LttP is overrated" but by who? i don't get it.

>>987801

>mario is in the game
>game is called super mario bros 2

Next you're going to tell me that Tetris Attack doesn't count as a "mario game" just because it's a reskin of Panel de Pon.

>>987778
No way. Mind = Blown

>>987830
I would consider it a Mario edition of Doki Doki Panic. That the Mario series later incorporated enemies from Doki Doki Panic, or that the sprites and story were changed, doesn't make it a legitimate Mario game. And of course we all know why Doki Doki Panic was altered for foreigners to begin with. I'm sorry if my opinion is too unpopular for you.

>>987837
I can sense your sarcasm, and I responded the way I did because I could not tell if he was being belligerent or ignorant.

>>984690
I honestly think as far as all that goes:
SMW2:YI > SMW > SMB3 > SMB > SMB2
ALttP > AoL > LoZ
Can't say anything on Metroid, haven't played.

And my unpopular opinions:
The original Legend of Zelda is the worst in the series, relatively speaking.
Ocarina of Time is nowhere near as good as it used to be.

>>987842
You're such an underage weeb it hurts. Why can't you go back to being a kid in 1988 when everybody loved it and zelda 2. Oh yeah cause you're underage

>>987867
ワロタ

>>987679
I've had this idea about the Zelda series that it could benefit from having only a few tools that can be utilized in many different ways. For example, part of what made Twilight Princess kind of meh for me was the inclusion of items that weren't particularly useful outside of the dungeon you find them in. Maybe a less is more approach would suit the series better.

This is not strictly retro, but I think that Megaman 9 is better than 2.

Super Mario Brothers 3 is the best game in the Mario franchise.

>>984690
>ITT: unpopular retro opinions
You get 99% of the same experience of retro gaming using an emulator

If you use a good controller and a good CRT you can get 100% the same experience

I don't want to create chaos, I'm not trolling, that's just the way I feel.

Sorry you guys.

>>987801
>>987842
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2011/04/the-secret-history-of-super-mario-bros-2/

Doki Doki Panic has its roots in Mario. There's having an unpopular opinion and then there's being wrong.

>>988156
>Doki Doki Panic has its roots in Mario.

Doesn't matter. The game was released as Doki Doki Panic and Mario was only added due to wanting to sell to foreigners.

Chrono Cross was a much better game than Chrono Trigger.

The first Spyro was the best one.

Final Fantasy IX is better tha Final Fantasy VI.

>>988154

There's nothing wrong with feeling that way, the problem arises when people (namely /v/) start touting things like they hate console games, but then have a wank fest over emulators or fail to recognize that some people enjoy owning physical games. Arrogance cause shit to ensue.

mortal combat never got good at all

>>988172
>and Mario was only added due to wanting to sell to foreigners.
And because of this, everything about Doki Doki Panic except for the original Fuji TV characters became a part of the Mario universe, thus making Super Mario Bros. 2 part of the series despite it being a reskin. It doesn't matter if it was released as Doki Doki Panic, what matters is that it ended up being a Mario game -- like it was developed for in the first place.

Why is it so hard to accept this?

>>987092
>
are you counting the 999999 in 1 cartridges as 999999 games?

The best games on the NES and SNES were sports games

Genesis have more 'decent and higher tier' games than SNES. Not much 2 players options though.

Genesis have also better audio output(SFM synthesis is always better than sampling)

When I see somebody with triforce tatoo i cringe internally. It's almost looks like advertisment on boxers backs written by marker.

Best DooM version is on PS1.

Worst Metroid is SNES one. But on GBA it's made right.

Why do you call this board retro when all you kids know about is nes, snes, genesis and the like?
There is no scene or retro gaming.

>>988371
There was spectrum, msx and older personal computers threads, bootleg threads, amiga/dos threads but they're not live long.

I'm going to assume nobody cares.

>>987801
Nintendo has adopted it as a Mario game, whether you like it or not. Pointing out basic bullshit about its origins doesn't help. Japanese "2" was "1" with a couple of new things and new levels. Our "2" was a retooling of what originally was a Mario game anyway. It was better than the original sequel, and Japan knows it. That's why our "2" was re-released there twice (three times if you count BS Super Mario USA) before the GBA launch-title port. Even enemies introduced in our 2 are now standard Mario enemies, like Shy Guys.
Please fuck off.

I like Super Mario Bros. 2 more than 3.

I agree with you OP.

>people who prefer World over Yoshi's Island

You've had 18 years to realize your mistakes and shift away from the uninformed popular opinion. Always champion.

>>988449
Lol, no. SMW doesn't have an objectively shit tier health system like YI's.

>>988371
You mean shit like >>987092

>>984690
The only one I disagree with is Metroid.

>>988187
I can understand collecting games for the sake of having them, but to refuse to play a game because it's not being "executed" in the original hardware. (I'm talking about some guys I know IRL)

>>988449
UWAAH

DIDIDING, DIDIDING

WEH

WEH

WEH

WEH