/vr/ - Retro Games

It will last ages.

depends entirely on the condition and run time. i lucked out and got a 14 inch pvm with low run time and near perfect geometry for 200€ just a couple years ago.
buying from some scalper that has probably amassed a warehouse worth of those and knows exactly who he is selling to is just a waste of money. he sells the units for 1.2k a pop, but what guarantee do you have that you get one in good condition? his units could be all over the place, from near mint to barely working garbage. you dont know and ge certainly doesnt care. he will likely sell the worst condition units first and then jack up the price once he only has good condition units remaining.
you are better off just getting a regular consumer telly. PVM is nice but not $1200 and getting ripped off nice.

>>9851443
They seem in good dentition, they've been refurbished and gone through geometry testing, tested for burn in, tubes have been tested aswell....these are electronic hobbyists selling them, not some average Joe who just found a tv out of a dumpster

>>9851407
DONT DO IT! dont waste your money on pvmemes. Get a consumer tv they look better seriously and they are much cheaper.

>>9851407
>not even a multiformat
that shit isn't worth more than $100

>>9851504
What's a multiformat?

>>9851510
means a monitor that can handle signals besides just 15khz (480i/240p), like 480p.

I agree with the sentiment that if you're going for a 15khz display, just get a consumer set. PVMs are nice, but they aren't 1000 dollars nice. That's a retarded price.

>>9851510
A multiformat like the PVM-20L5. They are ridiculously overpriced online and have humongous thick scanlines because the high tv lines that make the image look like shit.

>>9851407
I have 3 pvmemes but I've been recommending AGAINST them since like 2016. Prices aren't worth it. Just get a nice consumer set, preferably with component, and a transcoder.
PVMs and BVMs look better, but theyre not worth dropping a grand or more

>>9851543
>humongous thick scanlines because the high tv lines that make the image look like shit.

Love mine. Got it for $120 in 2012. Seeing fags say they're ugly is pretty funny because you showed up late to the party.

>>9851407
Would not recommend at current prices. I made fun of my friends for getting them at $350 in 2014.

>>9851575

>>9851575
I like it, but it's valid to prefer a softer look. People just get too caught up in trying to justify their preferences.

>>9851617
Preference is one thing, but there's a lot of sour grape anons that just shit on them for (you)'s.

I grew up as an arcade rat, seeing scanlines was a normal thing for me and rgb, don't care what people call 'definitive' experience. If that were the case those fags should be playing shit through RF.

>>9851575
I don't care about the cost...just guarantee me this shit will last long

>>9851632
Need low hours, it will depend on the model, but some service menus on these RGB monitors will display the lifetime hours they have.

These will generally last around 80,000 hours before needing maintenance. But a lot of these were manufactured in the 80s and 90s and have very old capacitors that need replacing.

>>9851639
This one has 19k hours

1/2

>>9851639
2/2

>>9851665
$1200 for a monitor that can't do multi resolutions

Seems shit unless you really really want it and only plan to play classic 16 bit consoles on it.

>>9851624
The whole "scanlines aren't authentic, you only see those on RGB PVMs while sitting half an inch away!" argument I constantly hear is such a cope. I have pics from couch-distance of my 32" trinitron from 1992 displaying my SNES via fucking RF and even in the photos, the scanlines are clearly prominent

>>9851667
My understanding is that it can do multi resolution but just not natively? So would get 480i not 480p for ps1 games? I want a crt for ps1 and ps2....if not this then what do I look for?

Hoew about this one?

>>9851632
They won't, it's a fact. Spending more than $100 on something that's literally dying every time you use it is retarded. Good luck finding someone to service your CRT when it inevitably gets damaged in shipping, you almost certainly can't do it yourself, and you will NEVER have perfect geometry.

>>9851713
I have a similar model, and they're great monitors but not for 3000 AUD, that's a scam. Probably got it for a few hundred the greedy cunt.
It doesn't do 480p, but most ps2 games are 480i anyway. All ps1 games are 240p/480i. 480i actually looks better on CRTs with less TVL because the flicker is less noticeable. It's not too bad on this monitor though.

>if not this then what do I look for?
Just any decent looking consumer crt you can find mate. Sony, Panasonic, Phillips are good brands.

>>9851790
Cheers

>>9851624
Those aren't PVMs in arcade cabinets. They aren't even trinitrons. They're (mostly) consumer grade slotmasks over RGB. That's why that combination is my preference since it's literally what was in the arcade. An actual arcade monitor would theoretically be better but those often have way more hours on them which at this point is probably the most important detail. PVMs don't look "bad" but calling it sour grapes that people prefer consumer sets is silly. Plus they're fucking small. I'll take a 36" Toshiba over a 20" PVM any day of the week and yes I've seen both. I have personal friends who are PVM guys and the silliest ones are when people sit on the floor indian style like an 8 year old inches away from a 9" Ikegami and call it prime gaming. An NEC XM29 would be nice but those are legit rare. PVMs are better for TATE thanks to the chassis and they're a comparative dream to carry than consumer TVs for the same reason, but there's very few reasons to recommend them.

>>9851510
Something to ignore. If you want 480p there are better ways than a pvm.

>>9851575
>>9851581
Too bad you have to turn the lights entirely off or the image looks like a 2002 LCD.

>>9851486
They literally do not look anywhere near as good. How retarded can you pretend to be before you just don't submit the comment? Next time choose to not click submit and go back to lurking.

>>9851797
20"-27" is good imo. Anything I can't carry by myself is too big a pain.

>>9851813

>>9851813
Not sure what you’re even talking about here

>>9851407
PVMs are too perfect for me. I need a shittier CRT that's kind of blurry and has some color bleed. Otherwise what's the point?

>>9851820
You have a PVM and HE is the retard?
LMAO OK.

>>9851407
There's better retro shit to invest your 1k into imo, like you could buy a Steel Battallion controller, or a Sega Naomi with Netboot, or anything but a damn TV and still have some money left. Also, if you really want thick scanlines that much you can buy some late CRT TV like Sony WEGA or a CRT monitor (don't know if they support 240p with scalers/adapters, they do with RA though) for much less.

>>9851824
I hear ya. I love a 32-36" but you have to treat it like a piece of furniture.

OP has probably already bought it by now but crt monitors won't last. They have a shorter service life than lcd/oled and as soon as a component in one of thlse things goes you will pay out of your pocket to get it repaired. You are paying around $1000 for something which has niche utility and questionable long term use. Just pay for an oled and slap a filter on it and save the money OP

>>9852025
>Crt have a shorter life than lcd
Nah, CRTs can basically be left on 24/7 and nothing will happen....average flat screen has to be replaced after only a few years. I've gone through half a dozen lcds in the last decade....arcade CRTs are still running

>>9852025
if OP has the money no problem enjoying it while it lasts, even if they're being price gouged. That said, it goes a long way if you can repair these things yourself.
Overall I agree though, shaders look amazing these days and the ease of use means that I end up playing a lot of games on my flatscreen instead of a CRT.

>>9852025
Op here, Lol, I don't want to get ripped off so I'm in no rush.
However this just popped up now, I asked if they turn on, if so I'll take them and see what I can do

>>9852039
Whoops, forgot pic

>>9852037
I can afford it but that doesn't mean I'm willing to be ripped off....although id rather pay extra if it means the product is likely to last longer/a long time

>>9851841
>>9851825
black levels are shit in crts
always have been, I used to come home from school and close myself in total darkness in the living room in the middle of the day to watch cartoons and play videogames, otherwise it looked washed out

>>9852029
crt service life averages around 30k hours while lcds average around 50k

>>9852042
like >>9851443 already said, paying more doesn't necessarily mean better condition.
They're all going to fail eventually, find one that has low hours, seems to be in decent shape and has been kept by someone who cares vs a hoarder. Learn how to repair them and you'll have more peace of mind.
Personally I'd look for a consumer Trinitron, JVC D series or Panasonic unless you luck upon a 20" or larger PVM and want to spend the money.

>>9852048
Service life does not equal longevity. Service life relates to maintenance, CRTs require more maintenance true...but they are repairable....if an lcd panel is fucked you gotta throw it all in the bin

>>9852025
CRTs were made to be used far more than your average retrogamer uses them. If you find one in decent condition it will last a long time (provided you take care of it). You don't need to pay an exorbitant amount for one either.

>>9852039
The real issue is that PVMs are arguably a rip off now in general. People forget that what made them attractive a decade ago was that you could get them for a song. Now that they're $1000+ but regular consumer sets are still largely free or close to free, you have to decide if it's worth it. Can PVMs look "better" than a consumer set? Sure. But do they look $1000 better? As someone who's seen them side by side, they definitely do not.

Personally I'd suggest anyone who is in the market for a PVM to try to see one in person first and decide if you even like the look. Because they really do look different, especially if you're in BVM territory which look very emulator-like. If that's what they want then they should go for it. But I think a lot of people approach this as if it's a straight hierarchy when in truth it's very taste specific and depends a lot on what you want out of your display. Hell, for most people I wouldn't recommend a CRT at all. At this point an OLED with a good scaler will get you 90% of the way there.

>>9852047
You do know one of the main criticisms LCD has had thrown at it since its introduction is black and light levels when compared to a CRT? Its why OLED was such a big deal when it was made available commercialy.

>>9851407
Uh I don't know about taking a pill. Do some research first if you haven't already. Is this really an investment you want to make? Maybe take a look at pictures of various models with the appropriate inputs for your needs with various TVL counts and screen sizes to see which you like best.

>>9852052
How does one even become a handy man with tv repairs? Or console repairs for that matter? Surely there's some electrician course in how to deal with consumer electronics.

BTW, what are your thoughts on thos mini sony pvms? They go for a semi reasonable price

>>9852057
Newbie here, but From what I've seen so far pvm colours are brighter and more saturated and the image is more crisp

>>9852054
Yes but crts is a technology which is becoming more and more unsupported with the lack of fresh replacement parts. You can buy a new lcd but you may not be able to buy a new tube or flyback that is compatible with your crt. Even if you did it wouldn't exactly be cheap or be in the best condition

>>9852052
I don't think we got JVC crts in this part of the world. They were owned by Panasonic though right? I'd imagine they're similar.

>>9852052
https://www.retrorgb.com/interview-with-open-source-crt-chassis-creator.html

I'm very interested in this custom chassis project. Of all the points of fail in a CRT, the tube is least likely to be the problem. Unless there's burn-in, you could theoretically strip out the tube of a junked RF-only set, drop it into this chassis, and suddenly have a multisync monitor with every input and toggle under the sun.

PVMs have finer masks/grilles and phosphors that can't be reproduced with this sort of thing, but everything else they have going on with them absolutely can be. New tubes will never be manufactured again but a custom chassis like this would instantly raise the usability of the ones that already exist. Just grab some shitty RCA off the street and drop the tube into a new chassis. Suddenly it's 90% of the way to a professional grade monitor.

>>9852063
Why do you need a course when the internet exists? Adrian's Digital Basement is a great YouTube channel to watch to learn how to repair stuff because he is very systematic about troubleshooting and regularly works on CRTs.

>>9852071
Saturation isn't always a good thing. I'm not the best person to ask about this though because I prefer consumer slot masks to everything else. It just looks to my eye as more natural. Trinitrons were king back in the day (as in the 1970s) because they were so much brighter than everything else. But by the time most of us were playing video games we were using 90s tubes, which at that point modern shadowmasks "caught up" to Sony's aperture grille leaving the most noticeable feature of trinitrons what looks to me as red push and an overall, for lack of a better word, "harsher" image.

>>9852063
The internet, my boy. This board has a CRT general with knowledgeable people, there's Reddit's CRT community (which has former /vr/ trips and other resources like RetroRGB.
>what are your thoughts on thos mini sony pvms
huge scam, I'd play games on a handheld with OLED over a baby PVM any day. They're novelties that are also overpriced.

>>9852052
>JVC D series
Or any JVC for that matter. What made the D-Series special was their speakers. The tubes in the D-Series are the same half dozen or so tubes that JVC used in their non-D sets.

pvms are overpriced goyslop, just get a trinitron computer monitor lol

>>9852087
You know, I watched over 20 videos in how to repair my ps2 and still wasn't able to do it

>>9852110
I see

>>9852127
skill issue

>>9851575
i am super jealous as a a crt enthusiast, though i do like the softer look off consumer sets. you got a great deal and these other anons are salty bitches

>>9852047
lol

It's worth pointing out that a PVM will be more susceptible to glare than consumer TVs and monitors will because they deliberately don't have coatings or specially tinted tubes since their original purpose was spot on color reproduction in windowless production studios and those features, while great for the living room, would interfere with a PVM's job.

>>9851407
>I'm willing to fall for the meme
Then why have you not already impulse bought it?

>>9852048
And the average IQ is 100, yet yours is much lower

>>9852263
Larger ones have anti-glare sheets applied to the screens. I have two different 20 inch models that have them. I peeled that shit off though.

>>9851813
>too bad
Wrong Pablo. This is with my room light on.

>>9852047
Your CRT was not calibrated correctly for your whole child life

I bought a 1341 a few months back but unfortunately I am going to have to recap it, since I dont think there is anyone near me that repairs PVM's that is even remotely close to where I live

>>9852025
>crt monitors won't last.
I have a Trinitron TV from 1974 that still works fine. No monitor made today will still be working in 50 years.

>>9852103
Ikegami master monitors use rounded, shadowmask CRTs so retain those qualities while having phenomenal build quality and a billion pro adjustments to tweak. I was lucky to get my TM20-80rh before the hype, shipped for a little over $100 on ebay after I saw a YT review and was impressed at the build and jog wheel tray...now they are near a grand.

>>9853218
Are those slot type shadowmask though? I thought they were dotmask like PC monitors. I like the slotmask look because arcade cabinets used them but also because I like the subtle textured effect they have. Calling it "woven fabric" is too extreme a comparison but it's the best I can describe.

>>9853559
Hmm, I guess they are somewhere in between as they do use high resolution tubes that are considered shadow mask, but not slot. The 900 line resolution will definitely look different than a TV.

>>9851407
>$1200
>for something to play snes on
Fucking why?

>>9853606
And that's nothing. I think they are paying like $10k+ for the 32 inch BVM now...just to play games.

>>9851407
>couldn't afford an 8k AMOLED and retrotink
fucking poorfag lmao

Bros....these just got listed and sold in 1 hour before I could pick them up....you reckon they worked? I messaged the seller but they sold as soon as I asked the question...if they worked I'd be loosing it

>>9853641
>Deep scratches on the glass.
>Dented speaker.
>Still covered in cobwebs.
>Missing Sony badge.
I don't think you missed out on anything worthwhile.

>>9853605
There's not really any "in between." The original color TVs were dot trio shadowmasks with the three electron guns in a triangle. Sony introduced the Trinitron which blew early shadowmasks out of the water with an inline electron gun setup. The slotmask style shadowmask was developed to close the gap and became the norm for consumer TVs. Computer monitors kept using dot trio because it was better for certain things like rendering fine text.

>>9853682
Ah interesting, so the Ikegami tubes are a direct descendant of the very first color CRT technology, just high resolution and inline electron gun instead of delta configuration.

>>9853692
https://youtu.be/0aFhzGEBQlk

I'm glad I have an excuse to post Technology Connections.

>>9851575
>Got it for $120 in 2012
>I made fun of my friends for getting them at $350 in 2014

You cockmonglers all overpaid. I got my 14M4U for $20 in 2011. Nobody had a clue that these things existed, I only found out about them because someone on /a/ was posting his PVM in a Steins;Gate thread and I thought "huh, that looks cool". The $100+ prices didn't come until 2015-2016, once people started figuring out that retro faggots were willing to pay a huge premium for shit that they previously regarded as e-waste.

>>9852047
Maybe for a rear projection? Regular CRTs have great black levels, though yeah, turning off the lights is often preferable regardless.

>>9853723
>compares a 14M4U to a 20L5

lmao

>>9853661
Good to hear

>>9853218
I have an Ikegami, I think it is just the R model (it lacks the tray). I similarly grabbed one probably close to a decade ago after seeing some guy on YT hooking his Saturn up to one. It does look nice, and is what I use for 8-bit consoles, since I prefer larger sets for later games, especially 3D ones.

>>9853748
I think that's the same video. I was impressed at how well made they were just from the video, with stuff like the frame around the CRT a solid metal casting.

Pro monitors were practically e-waste at that point and priced accordingly and thanks to that video I got my only broadcast monitor, as I would never pay more than the princely $100 that one cost me.

>>9851407
>How durable/reliable will it be in future do you think?
Whenever I play my 13" Panasonic Consumer I'm genuinely concerned it's going to break. I've had like half a dozen bedroom TVs break as a kid. Although most were cheap off-brand ones like Orion and Emerson.
When I play games on my PVM I feel confident running it for hours at a time.

>>9854068
Why are you concerned it's gonna break? It's probably just in your head mate.

>>9851407
$1200

I'm not. If I want a period-accurate experience with real hardware I'm just gonna use a shitty TV like whatever my parents could afford back in the 90's/early-00's, and if I want better picture quality I'll just emulate or use a scanline converter.

>>9854068
Yeah, I mean consumer sets are durable as fuck so you'd think the Sony pvm crts would be even more so

>>9851407
If you buy this then you are part of the problem

>>9854142
Don't worry, I most likely will not....I'd pay 500 for it tops

It's really incredible to me that nobody can manufacture new CRTs given what people are willing to pay for old ones.

>>9854258
you severely overestimate how many people are into this niche hobby

>>9854258
CRT technology was a market of scale. The factories and infrastructure to produce them was insane. LCD panels were way cheaper, which is part of the reason they rapidly replaced CRT once it became viable.

>>9854760
https://web.archive.org/web/20230204083932/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVLVaoA-fic

My favorite video illustrating this got deleted.

>>9854260
Not to mention that a TV isn't something you buy once a month. A lot of people who are into CRTs already have their setup and that's that.

>>9854258
You really don’t understand the cost of manufacturing something like that

Don't overlook the non-Sony alternatives. High TVL count shadow mask monitors still look great and are much cheaper. I've got a 14" Panasonic RGB monitor that's akin to playing on an incredibly high quality Arcade monitor, and I got it for incredibly cheap before the PVMeme blew up.

>>9855920
True, the dot mask panasonic model I have is beautiful. However, that ship has sailed too. They're still cheaper than Sonys, but they're no longer the super good deal that everyone was sleeping on

>>9855987
I'm noticing that the PVM craze has trickled down to all Sony Trinitrons which has trickled down further to any CRT period, with certain notable brands like JVC D-Series and I'Art getting the brunt of it.

>>9855998
Same shit happened to console collecting, SNES was most expensive and you could get TG16/Megadrive shit cheap

then it spread

>>9854760
> which is part of the reason they rapidly replaced CRT once it became viable
That's the official narrative. The truth is very different.

>>9851632
Low hours is ideal, but pretty much every CRT will need to be recapped at some point, the caps degrade even when not in use. If you don't live in SoCal or TN I wouldn't recommend a PVM unless you want to spend several hundred on shipping/recapping sending it to the handful of people who bother offering a recap service for PVMs. I'm lucky to be be SoCal and have several within driving distance.

>>9851407
Why?
We live in a world where you can solder together a scale for 40 bucks, or emulate fucking everything on a cheap amd apu and use a nice shader.
Stop fueling this gay ass market, hoarding old shit won't fill the void inside you.

>>9856248
>Stop fueling this gay ass market, hoarding old shit won't fill the void inside you.
I use mine to play games, people that hoard should be shot.

>>9855998
Yup. It used to be back in like 2012 that all PVMs were dirt cheap. Then the sony branded ones started shooting up, but you could still get identical models to sonys like from olympus that are just rebranded for medical use. Then people found out about the good deals on those, and those prices shot up. But you could still get pro monitors from other companies like panasonic and ikegami, then those shot up too.

>>9851504
multiformat is a meme. If you're doing 480+ just use a PC monitor

>>9856774
Useful for atomiswave/naomi and Wii.

If I want a CRT for GameCube only, what should I be looking for/buying?

>>9857161
Something with component or a VGA CRT

>>9857161
something with progressive scan support but good luck finding one. Honestly component cables at 480i looks pretty good, at least on a Wii playing GC games.
You could also get a VGA monitor and emulate, that also gets you AA, internal upscaling, etc.

>>9852652
Not as low as someone who buys thirdworld tech for visual quality

>>9857184
HD CRTs aren't that hard to find. In fact you'll likely be able to get them free if you're patient because they're fucking massive and people just want someone to take them off their hands. That's the good news. The bad news is they're fucking massive and you have to take them off people's hands.

>>9857880
They also have a shit load of input delay.

>>9857886
If he's asking for Gamecube specifically then it's not much of an issue. You wouldn't want to use them for SNES but for PS2/GCN/Xbox/Wii they're pretty damn good.

>>9851407
Nobody tell him or coomlector niggers that pc Trinitron monitors with BNC inputs give the exact same result

>>9858186
They don't.

>t. one that 2 27" wegas RGB modded, a 20L5 and BVMD201FU

>>9858190
They do. I owned a multiscan 520gs, it supported 320x240 from 59hz to 165hz. And had perfect scanlines. The only thing you "lose" is that you can't have the same horizontal resolution as a real pvm but who cares honestly.

>>9858186
implying those aren't ridiculously expensive now too

>>9858195
They aren't nearly as sharp, they still look great and I agree with you there, but I guess you've never seen a 20L5 or a 20D1FU in person. It mogs the shit out of a wega.

>>9858227
Also oops, I just noticed you said PC trinitron, my bad, I've never seen one of those. You could be right then.

>>9858212
I got mine for free a long time ago.
Was forced to donate it tho sadly.

>>9857886
It takes some shenanigans but you can use a RetroTINK-5X to get lag free "240p" on an HD CRT with excellent results. They don't lag with 1080i because it doesn't have to scale anything so you feed it a 540p signal, which to the TV means the same thing. You have to mess with the raster to correct the aspect ratio but the results are pretty spectacular.

>>9851407
>I'm willing to take the pvm pill
Don't be an idiot. Sony's CRT's have massive problems with convergance and geometry.
They may have been the gold standard 30 years ago but now they are all warped to shit by magnetic fields.
Get a consumer set, peferable non sony (LG is fantastic for example).
>700 USD
Absolutely insane

t. owner of 2 sony's, an lg, and a wells gardener arcade monitor

>>9860040
You can get a better result not being a retard and just using an emulator + shader.

>>9861476
PS -
And fixing geometry in a sony isn't easy. If you change one single parameter (there are bloody dozens of them), it also effects other parts of the screen and then you have to go and readjust half a dozen other parameters as well.
Fixing convergance is a bigger nightmare because you have to apply magnetic strips to the back of the tube while the bloody thing is opened up and switched on.

>>9861479
>you get emulator input delay by doing emulator + shader
no thanks
>just use run-ahead
Yeah, just use cheats to get rid of input delay. No.

>>9861490
Frankly I'd recommend finding a sweet spot and then leaving it alone regardless of what CRT you're using. Geometry and convergence tweaks are a black hole that end up becoming a hobby in and of itself if you aren't careful. I'd say a person should boot up 240p Test Suite exactly one time, make basic changes that cover the most egregious issues, and then never touch that ROM again. Because it becomes a last mile thing. Most any display can get you 90% of the way there but if you let that 10% that you wouldn't even have noticed had you not been looking for it live rent free then it becomes an eternal battle.

>>9861508
>Yeah, just use cheats to get rid of input delay.
Yes?

>>9861476
I see

Where can I steal one?

Seeing retards being worked by le CRT meme always makes me laugh

>>9861476
>Sony's CRT's have massive problems with convergance and geometry.
First I've heard of this. Not had an issue with mine.

>>9851407
They were built for extended use, however by this point in time some serious maintenance will be needed to have some acceptable level of performance. I too recently spent way too much to have one, but I do not have the skills/equipment/knowledge to fix/solder/calibrate the screens. I was thinking about visiting a lot of retro gaming conventions or something to acquire some names and capable people able to repair these monitors. What is a reasonable price for the work that needs to be done? Know of any good people or repair technicians? How could I make sure they are not scams/thieves?

>>9864669
Op here, I don't even have a pvm, but out of curiosity I called several tv repair shops. None said they fixed CRTs....I imagine you would have to find a specialist crt handyman or hobbyist if you wanted it fixed. I'm not sure were you would find them. If you do manage to find one I'd say about 100 dollars is a reasonable price to repair it depending on whats wrong

>>9864669
I'm currently trying to upskill to be able to solve these problems myself. It's only going to get harder to find anyone who's willing to fix these things. Taking my time with it so I don't do anything stupid.

>>9864730
Just be careful if you're going to open one, they can literally kill you.

>>9861508
How is runahead a "cheat"? You sound unwell.

>>9864701
>>9864669
I do audio electronics as a hobby and I also have PVMs. If anything ever goes wrong with mine I'll fix them but I wouldn't do it for someone else. That guy RetroTech on youtube is the only person I'd trust to be any good at it.

I have a TV that works fine when using the composite ports on the front of the TV but the component ones in the back cause some weird blurriness that's sometimes corrected with a little percussive maintenance to the side of the chassis. I'm pretty sure it's just a bad capacitor but I don't want to recap the whole damn TV. I can't see any visible signs of deterioration either. Is there a way to test the caps to find the bad one without having to remove them first?

>>9851407
Use thhis sites if you need help:
https://consolemods.org/wiki/Main_Page
https://consolemods.org/wiki/CRT:CRT_Wiki

Do super large CRTs exist? Like flat screen hueg memes

>>9866939
The biggest consumer CRT I know of is a 40" Mitsubishi. But remember that 36" Sony CRTs hovered around 200lbs. There was supposedly a 45" monster made but you'd probably need a crane to move it.

>>9866954
>440lbs
I wouldn't trust this in a residential building unless it was sitting directly on the foundation.

>>9866954
>The biggest consumer CRT I know of is a 40" Mitsubishi. But remember that 36" Sony CRTs hovered around 200lbs. There was supposedly a 45" monster made but you'd probably need a crane to move it.
I vaguely recall an anon here previously posting s pic of an unreleased CRT that was as wide as modern day TVs which is why I had to ask.

>>9867001
There were 34" widescreen CRTs and that's still a common size for modern TVs. But I don't know of any that hits the larger sizes of 50" you see nowadays. It'd be impossible to move.

I have a 14 inch BVM I picked up years back for pretty cheap but I only use it for tate mode. You're better off getting a nice 27" or smaller consumer model unless you're playing pretty close to it in a dark room. Bigger than 27 is when the weight starts getting out of hand.

>>9866928
Thanks

Are you guys in here really so poor that $1,000 is a big deal at all? I just HDMI mod any consoles I want to play and integer scale them into an OLED due to not wanting to deal with CRT shit, but if I wanted to deal with CRT shit, I would just get myself a BVM or PVM and call it a day. Why would you want to buy a CRT then just get one that doesn't look the best when by now we're probably almost all at least in our mid-twenties and have actual sources of income now?

>>9868494
That seems dumb
You could’ve just gotten a mister if you wanted to do that shit
I got a 28” consumer set that takes every type of signal for free

>>9868494
>mid-twenties
You're too young to be on this board.

>>9867006
RCA and Loewe made 38" widescreen CRT HDTVs.

>>9853723
>You cockmonglers all overpaid. I got my 14M4U for $20 in 2011
I got a proper 20-inch for free in 2013, you stupid cuck, lmao.

>>9852652
> Muh hecking antiquated hardware

Lurk moar, sweaty.

>>9869084
I guess they could afford to do that since shadowmask sets are lighter than aperture grilles. A 38" RCA weighs about as much as a 34" Sony.

>>9870134
Project less kiddo

>>9854123
PVM and BVM do break and do often, from lines going from edge to edge over the screen, to bad colors, bad geometry, there's so many issues, even worse if you pay top dollar for one.

>>9864701
>>9864730
>>9866691
Thanks, one other anon here recommended I speak with the RetroTech guy on YouTube which seems to have a lot of repair videos but I've no idea how to get in contact with the person anyway, as it seems like repairs are a hobby for the person than what they normally do. There was only one famous person in New York that mods regular TVs, like late 90's Sony Wega TVs to accept RGB which I would love to have done as well but I am not comfortable transporting a large 20" BVM, Sony Wega, nor the GDM-FW900s great distances. My experience is the same with a lot of repair shops around me, as all they do are cel phone screens. I don't have the room/time/fund to even start learning to solder, so I am fully dependent on paying for skilled labor which is getting more rare by the day, since working on the old technology is life threatening. With the tech no longer needed, they are destined to die out.

At 43:49 = https://youtu.be/n224P8snMkA?t=2619

>>9873564
You could say this about any old tech though. Fiddling with retro consoles at this point requires you to be at least a little bit tech savvy, especially the more finicky ones.

>>9873564
I'd love to know what this guy's life is like. Just loiters on /vr/ all day posting pictures from his giant collection of shit for the odd virgin to guffaw at. What kijd of existence is that? Do you even work or have a family? What the fuck.

>>9873564
You could say this about any old tech though. Fiddling with retro consoles at this point requires you to be at least a little bit tech savvy, especially the more finicky ones. The nice thing about a CRT nowadays is that you aren't really taxing it when it's just a gaming set. It's not like people are using them as their main living room television anymore and that's where the majority of hours are generated. Nobody is playing their NES for 8 hours a day.

>>9874380
I'm more impressed by his ability to access all of his shit conveniently enough to take pictures. He must be an organizational savant.

>>9874385
That's weird, too. He has thousands of games and can find like 5 random 3rd party controllers or every entry an obscure JRPG series and make a post about them within a few minutes. So fucking weird man.

>>9874395
I'm hoping he pulls back the curtain one day and makes a thread about his setup because I really want to know how he can have so much shit within arm's reach. I have fucking boxes on top of boxes.

>>9854123
>>9872970
As I said before, I've killed at least half a dozen little bedroom TVs when I was a kid. Those experiences make me not trust running them for 8 hours a day like I used to. My 2003 Panasonic I have now is probably a little better quality, but I also got it used and don't know how many hours are on it already. I don't even leave it plugged in when not in use.
My PVM gets left on sometimes when I fall asleep and I'm not really worried about it. It's a piece of professional equipment. It's also a medical version that doesn't seem to have many hours on it. Maybe I should take better care of it because the value will keep increasing over time, but so far it's my daily driver workhorse that I use every day.
If either one of them ever needs new caps I'm pretty good at soldering, the hardest part would be disassembly and reassembly.

>>9874532
>As I said before, I've killed at least half a dozen little bedroom TVs when I was a kid.
That's crazy. I'm not calling you a liar but something must have been going on for TVs to shit out on you that frequently. My family regularly bought bargain televisions to the point that I don't think I had anything that wasn't RF-only until like 1997 and all the bedroom and gaming TVs were hand-me-downs. And yet I only had one TV actually shit out and now I realize it was just a capacitor thing (random bouts of pincushion that sometimes was fixed with a good slap to the side).

>>9874532
It was probably the voices in your head telling you to larp on /vr/ that killed all those TVs

With the advent of transcoders like the RGB2COMP and the easy availability of quality s-video cables, combined with the massive divide between prices of PVMs and consumer sets I just don't understand why someone with half a brain would buy one.

t. someone who sold his 14L5 for $1300. I bought that thing for $50 10 years ago and when I saw how much they were going for I couldn't sell it fast enough. I have a 2000s consumer set and couldn't be happier. Seriously if you really want something that looks like a well calibrated PVM, buy any bullshit CRT computer monitor and run an upscaler into it and that's exactly how my PVM looked. Sharp as fuck with big thick black bars between the scanlines.

>>9851820
>They literally do not look anywhere near as good.
Lmao
They actually look better for retro since they don't show meme black scanlines

>>9851543
>have humongous thick scanlines because the high tv lines that make the image look like shit
Based

>>9851624
>sour grape
>over PVMs which can easily be emulated with shaders

>>9874532
They were all dirt cheap little TVs. Emerson, a semi-decent used Sharp that someone gave us when the Emerson broke, an Orion, last one was a Durabrand. Before that chain of failures I don't remember what they were but there were a couple more little black early 90s ones. Knowing what I know now I think they were all capacitor failures except the Sharp which was probably just a cold solder joint somewhere. I used to smack that one and it would help until one day it didn't. I specifically remember the Orion failing while I was playing PS2, it suddenly had vertical collapse and released the magic smoke.
The only living room TV that I ever had fail was a shitty RF only Sanyo that was also probably just a cold solder joint.
Also my friend had a large 89 Trinitron in his room that died a slow death. We already knew something was wrong because Sonic had wacky geometry on the background. Then it had vertical foldback and one day when I wasn't there it finally bit the dust.
I ran all the TVs constantly to have shows in the background anytime I was home. And also nowadays I've measured the line voltage at between 125V to 130V RMS. Although I do live in a different part of town.

>>9852058
LCDs have better black levels in a bright room compared to CRTs

>>9852835
Calibrating does jackshit
Phosphor will always absorb ambient light
If you don't know how this works don't get mouthy

>>9875578
To expand on this I have two screenshots. One is from my recently departed PVM, the other is a GBS-C through some random ass CRT computer monitor I picked up for free. Can anyone tell which one is which? I'll just tell you since it's pretty easy to tell with the bloom in the LTTP shot: Mario is the monitor and LTTP is the PVM. Okay, but can someone honestly believe that one is worth $1K+ over the other? When you are sitting there at a normal distance they look nearly identical.

Back when PVMs were the same price as consumer sets and S-Video cables were all shitty composite sync bullshit, it made sense for us to use them. Now that they've ascended to meme status, it's absolutely retarded.

>>9854760
>The factories and infrastructure to produce them was insane.
There was nothing insane about it
Dumb zoomie

PS2 looks like shit on my BVM I much prefer BC PS3 on OLED

>>9875714
>Back when PVMs were the same price as consumer sets and S-Video cables were all shitty composite sync bullshit, it made sense for us to use them. Now that they've ascended to meme status, it's absolutely retarded.
This is the crux of it. When PVMs were being thrown out and you could get one on the cheap it was a nice little secret to exploit. But as they've gone up in price the relative value of getting one has dropped since you can still get excellent consumer TVs for free and that $1000 you'd have spent on a PVM can be spent on better things. Eventually something's cost outpaces it's value. I don't HATE Earthbound and if it were a $20 game I'd pick it up. But at $3000 that just ain't worth it. Same situation here.

>>9875716
You're retarded.

See: >>9854814

Sure, let's have hobbyists restart factories like that where the formulation for the actual glass of the screen were trade secrets and several layers of manpower were needed to QA the tubes. Trying to produce CRTs for the existing niche would mean they'd have to charge $10,000 each at 1960s quality, let alone 1990s.

>>9866964
That's the weight of two people. If you are even remotely concerned about that amount of weight then your house is not fit for habitation and needs to be condemned.

>>9876881
nta you're coping to, but your ignorance and straw manning is just embarrassing. No one is suggesting clueless hobbyists like you restart factories. I understand you feel that watching a 10 minute youtube has made you an expert on CRT production, but it just ain't so kiddo. I also understand that you don't see that technology has advanced much your first and second console. But there was only a 7 year gap between the PS4 and PS5. There have been a lot of technical advancements in the 50+ years since those first Trinitrons were made. Machines that cost millions have been replaced by machines that cost thousands, even hundreds. You could literally cut the stencils needed to produce masks for CRTs on a $500 hobbyist laser cutter. Of course, you don't even know that those are, as they weren't covered in the youtube that made you an instant expert. And that, my child, is why no one is asking (You) to restart a CRT factory.

>>9877624
>440lbs
>2 people
America is so fat.

>>9878224
You're suggesting that CRT manufacturing could come back to service a handful of people who want to play Super Nintendo but I'm the clueless hobbyist. Sure, let's go with that. You win, anon.

>>9851407
if you're using a PVM over a consumer set you may as well just use an OLED

>>9878264
spotted the sub 80 iq anon

>>9878353
>muh blacks
OLED
>muh contrast
>OLED
>...i-input lag?
You don't notice the 1ms input lag
Trying to get "good" image quality out of a CRT is a redundant exercise and defeats the point

>>9878503
enjoy your blurry motion

>>9878507
On a 240hz OLED? Whatever. I mean yeah fast-moving objects have slightly less clarity on a flat panel, but on a CRT even slow objects leave behind a persistent afterimage.

>>9878513
>Talks about PVM
>Shows motion clarity of a consumer CRT
are you retarded?

>>9878515
>has nothing to say about 240hz panels
I accept your concession.

>>9851407
Why?

>>9851624
Arcade crts use consumer TV tubes lmfao.

>>9878598
>wells gardener crt
>consumer
what did he mean by this?

>>9878513
60hz retro games are gonna benefit from 240hz oled...

>>9878629
Thats the chassis, nearly every arcade tube ended up if they didnt start out with a JVC or Panasonics TV tube.
You think there is an entierly different production line just for Arcade tubes?
Nope

>>9876864
I'd rather spend $300-$400 for a PVM that I can hook all my consoles into than that same amount for one game.
But things are worth whatever someone is willing to pay. I guess the nostalgia element is strong with some games.

>>9878232
>You're suggesting im straw manning
No. You're literally doing it
>let's have hobbyists restart factories like that
>You're suggesting that CRT manufacturing could come back to service a handful of people who want to play Super Nintendo
I never said any of that. It was all a faggot named (You). Imagine being so mad your mommy won't let you have an old TV in your room that you literally lose your mind.

>sharper scanlines
>more versatile
>nearly free
Just get a big TV for 240p and a Monitor for 480p.

>>9878661
> I'd rather spend $300-$400 for a PVM
This is not the argument, we were talking about spending 1k+ on one. Plus, you’re not finding one for that cheap that isn’t a total piece of shit.

>That same amount on one game
Which would be equally as retarded as a $1000 PVM. Your entire argument is a strawman.

>>9878513
How are retro games going to run at 240 fps?
You going to insert 3 blank frames every second or something?
Also trails are only visible on black

>>9878669
Have you picked up that pube ball and cumrag off the floor yet?

>>9878796
You could probably find postage stamp 9" Ikegami monitors for about $300, maybe $200 if you're lucky. But even that price is crazy for what you're getting.

>>9878796
>you’re not finding one for that cheap
I already did. 20L2 for $300 a couple years ago. At the time, people were on here were already complaining about PVM prices. It has been totally worth it for me. Best $300 I've ever spent on electronics.
I don't care how much the value keeps going up, I'm never selling it. If anything happened to it I would probably pay 1000+ for another one.

>>9879962
>If anything happened to it I would probably pay 1000+ for another one.
Yes, you've already established that you're retarded.

>>9879962
Same, bro. Bought a 20L5 and a D24 about 3 years ago. Best purchase I've made for video games in at least a decade. I'm amazed everytime I play games on those things.