/vr/ - Retro Games

so, i found a philips crt when i was dropping off some old skips at the government approved landfill/recycling dump place

how do i know if its a good television for /vr/ games?

>>974101
You hook it up to your /vr/ systems and you decide if it makes you happy or not. For reference, you can check out the pics we post of our various CRTs hooked up various ways and see how it stacks up.

Really, though as long as it's not HD it's a lot better for retro consoles than one that is.

>>974107
i've never actually used a crt before so ive got nothing to compare it to but the things so beautiful everything looks so much better than my god awful laptop screen
so excited i forgot to sleep and beat megaman 7

i cant even type properly

>>974126
Well what's the model number? Does it have S-Video? Are you in Europe or the USA? Does it have SCART? YPbPr Component? Can you post some pics of it in action?

Anyone tried Ikegami monitors?

How do they compare to PVMs?

>>974131
the model number is 28pt532b/05
no s video
europe
it does have scart
no component
not quite sure how to or what to take a picture of but heres one

Present the correction list of good crts by brand and model number.

I will save it as a file to use at thrift stores until I find one that I know is "good enough" to you crazies that have actually spent the time to care about this shit.

Inb4 aspect ratio

I love this thing. I have a question though, the pixels aren't individual like I see many other TVs having. Different type of CRT? Idk, can anyone help me out?

>>974182
no idea. They look like they have a whole bunch of settings so id say they're better than average. Do you have one?

>>974214
is that television hooked up to a ps1?

>>974219
hah! I knew someone would say that.

Actually no, I bought an old but not that old nvidia GPU and use a software tool to get lower resolutions. Right there I'm running 640x480 via svideo. I think it looks very nice, the color is fantastic, but I'm curious about the pixel shape. Here, ill post a picture

>>974228
Here's an example with contra hard corps

>>974232

There is little bit of color bleed, but other than that it looks fine.

>>974216
Model number doesnt really matter.

Any CRT with component, S-video and composite inputs. (Or SCART RGB if you are in europe) will be good enough.

The better brands are Sony, philips, sharp and Panasonic.

Also, don't get a HD or widescreen TV. they are crap.

>>974238
is that what it is? I always see these threads and catch a glimpse at >>974107 with those separated pixels

What's the difference? the input source or the crt itself?

>>974234
Do I want one with a flat front tube, or the curved tube?

>>974241
or is his photo just timed better than mine

>>974193
Well it's a shadow mask and I'm guessing you're using composite for that pic. Get an RGB Scart cable and see how sweet it looks then!

>>974232
Shadowmask. Compared to this pic, that other gut's Philips may be chromaclear. At any rate, you nood to start using an RGB breakout cable for your VGA and Soft15khzor whatever the new version is called.

>>974107
Scrooge is packing a hell of a third leg

>>974252
unfortunately the JVC monitor I have doesnt have the RGB card! Ahhhh

>>974241
It's a little bit of both but in your pic, I'd say the signal is most of the problem. You're sending 640x480 while I'm pretty sure SoTN is 240p

>>974247
How the fuck can you tell and what's a shadow mask

>>974264
The arrangement of the "pixels" and how noticeable scanlines are.

>>974245

Doesnt really matter, it's up to you.

Most TV's with component inputs would be flat screen though.

>>974259
I recently upgraded the nvidia card to support some updated nvidia drivers for stability, the lowest I can crank it, at least with powerstrip, is 640x480

on the older card I could so 240p and I saw the same result. Maybe ill mess around with that soft 15khz thing to see if lower resolutions do something

http://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/vgm/3985150577.html

should I salvage that PVM? lol

might as well post some of my shit. For some reason I've been obsessed with taking photos of CRTs.

pure RGB oh yeah baby

>>974264
Well actually upon closer inspection I think it's ChromaClear. I'm pretty sure that's what it means when it looks like a honeycomb up close. I'm still getting my eye for all these different kind of monitors but basically monitors have some kind of a "screen" between the guns and the phosphor surface to enhance the separation and increase sharpness.

Most people consider Sony's "aperture grille" aka Trinitron method to be best for gaming because its "screen" is grid shaped.

That's what my screen shots are all from, although I have multiple examples. These close up pics are from a PVM but the OP pic is two 13" consumer Trinitrons I have. One is from 1986 with composite only and the other is from 2003 with component.

here's some SNES for y'all

For some reason the RGB doesn't look quite as good as the genesis.

>>974272
A damnable lie! Only the very last generation of CRTs had available flat screens. Plenty of CRTs have component input if you just look for it andg flat screen CRTs are notoriously deeper and more fragile than normal curved front ones.

>>974290
>>974290
I've never seen a curved tube with component inputs on any name brand TV's.

Flat tubes appeared at the same time DVD players did in about 1998, and that was when component inputs became more common.

>>974291
Some models actually output RGB better than others. The mini SNES (Which has to be modded to do so) is the one that looks best.

http://www.retrorgb.com/snesminirgb.html

>>974274
Fuck yes and it's a 25" AND it comes with a breakout cable. He obviously thinks the cabinet is worth more than the monitor, too. You should offer him like $20 or $30 for just the monitor I bet he'd take it.

>>974298
I personally think 1chips look just as good and require no modding it just sucks you have to open them up to identify them.

>>974297
seriously? It's been sitting collecting dust for god knows how long.

I'll shoot him an email for $20 though

>>974298
Now that I didn't know. Still, I think if I could replace the composite sync with raw sync it should improve the quality. Maybe using that lm 1881 chip thingy...

On the genesis it was as simple as cutting a trace and feeding the raw sync from the chip.

>>974304
Yeah it's one of those ones with the cmptr port so you can't do the whole easy-mode Wii with RetroArch and composite route, you'll have to make or buy a special cable and l2rgb if you want top tier signals but it does have S-Video which will blow your mind, too. Assuming it doesn't have a bunch of burn in or failing geometry and edge focus from being used millions of hours.

>>974334
depends on if the converter he mentioned is for the cmptr port. I doubt it has many hours on it since it's for a project, but this is craigslist...

>>974343
Oh shit yeah I forgot about the converter I bet that IS what he's talking about. That cable alone sells for like $50.

>>974358
I doubt he'll want to sell the monitor alone though. He'll probably claim that it's the only one that fits the housing.

I'll tell him that whoever buys it will replace it with a 25" lcd anyways lol

>>974368
Yeah or you could say that if he sells you the monitor you'll haul the cabinet away for him and give it to a friend of yours or just push it off a bridge

Have you americans considered just importing an european TV? I mean, I know the shipping will be expensive, but it would save you a lot of trouble. You just buy the cable, plug it in and you're good to go.

Or just stick to S-Video, I don't know. Anyway, have some more RGB.

>>974397
The shipping would literally cost us as much as we're spending on our pro monitors. I've looked into it, it's ridiculous. Although if I ever visit I may try to bring one home as luggage. I'll put it in the trunk of the used Porsche I bring home with me.

>>974264

>>974468

>>974415
You could also modify an american TV to have a scart input. It should be doable.

>>974483
It certainly is doable

>>974247
don't know if you're still around but that's a wii connected with a composite cable, i do have a composite-scart adapter around, will using that just be the same composite signal going into the scart socket instead?

>>974537
Yes, you need a full on RGB SCART cable for the full glory

>>974537

SCART is just a method to combine several different connection modes into one handy plug. The same signal your composite cable has at its plug is then at one of the SCART plugs pins. A "converter" should really do nothing else than taking the signal and send it to the correct copper wire without any processing.

>>974947
Wii can't do RGB. You are beaten.

Captcha
Ignorance dirmsol

>>975097
Bullshit. my wii is hooked via RGB scart this very minute.

>>975097
Euro Wiis can; NA(and possibly JP) Wiis can't.

I managed to get my old C64 working. using it on my TV is a pain in the ass though.

Is there a CRT anyone would recommend for the C64?

>>975097
It's possible to convert YUV to RGB and vice versa, without a strong lag and quality loss.

>>975097
See
>>975123
>>975118
>>975216
NOW who's the dirmsol?

>>975264
Alright, get right on that...add SCART inputs to your US tv so that you can take the component input from your Wii and convert it to RGB so that you can convert that to SCART.

Plebs. TC-1600, a Radeon, CRT_Emudriver, GroovyUME, SwitchRes. Let me know when FBA on Wii can load a zipped ROM over 27 megs.

>>975150
Lulz, the 1702 duh

>>975274
How high are you right now?

>>974270
240p 120hz should work since it is 31khz

So what would I need to get a 480p image from my NTSC Wii to a CRT monitor with VGA in?

There are Wii VGA cables, but will these work with a CRT monitor? I can only find people using them to connect their Wiis to LCD displays. If a passive cable really is enough to convert something that normally outputs component into VGA, then why are there more expensive active converters for component to VGA?

The reason I'm asking about this is because I want to be able to play smash 480p, but without worrying about HDTV upscaling delay, or having to track down an expensive 480p CRT TV.

>>975750
I'm no expert but I think 480i is your best bet if you don't want any input lag. As far as I know even HD or ED CRTs will have inherent input lag.

>>975802
He's talking about a crt vga monitor. It should work fine with one of those didj or whatever vga cables for ps3/wii but a lot of Gamecube games are 480i which might or might not work.

>>975306
Fuck is wrong with you. I can't even believe that RetroArch on Wii is thought of more highly than lag-free frame- and pixel-accurate emulation via PC and custom drivers.

Can't even believe it more when I see people seriously advocating modifying a television to accept RGB through its service menu, then attaching SCART inputs to said service menu, then converting the Wii's component output to RGB, then using some arcane European adapter to convert that RGB to an SCART plug over JUST PLUGGING IN THE WII'S COMPONENT TO THE TV'S COMPONENT INPUT.

If opening your TV is the first place your mind goes even though you can already hook up your Wii with component, you're never going to get on my emulation level.

>>974483
>>974491
It depends on the TV itself. Every set is different build up than the other, so you really have to study the schematics and ic datasheets to do something.

Also pin 29,30 and 25 or 9 can be used for Component, also don't forget about the termination resistance.

>>975895
See you're combining people's posts as if they're all one post. I just assume you're some kind of troll if you seriously think anyone is advocating all those things.

Someone posted a pic of LTTP clearly using composite so we told him to get SCART since we knew he was in Europe. We were assuming he was using a SNES but apparently, euro Wiis can output RGB SCART as multiple people have confirmed.

Another Euro was posting some pics of his SCART display and was suggesting importing euro tvs but when he discovered it was unfeasible he suggested adding RGB to US TVs which is feasible and we discussed that.

Another Anon pointed out that there are cheap, lagless transcoders to convert SCART to YUV so the RGB mod isn't really necessary unless you want to experiment on a TV that has no component.

Other anons were asking about Wii VGA cables and things like that.

If your brain seriously has trouble seeing these as separate discussions and instead needs to combine them into a single absurd concept of what we're talking about here, cut the damn dose.

>>975895
It's not thought of more highly it's just much easier to do. Although, if you're outputting to VGA CRT monitors with tri-dot style displays I'm sorry but it's just never going to look entirely correct - at least not to my eyes and a lot of others' eyes as well.

I'm sorry, but to I think most of us using real TVs or video monitors with vertical separation is more important than perfect frequency reproduction.

Trinitron master race reporting in

>>976537
Holy shit dude, get a better stand.

I was reading through this thread and I thought, "Why are people having trouble with this? Don't they still make CRT TVs? I remember buying one not too long ago." And then I realized "not too long ago" was over 10 years ago. Time flies.

>>975123
NTSC Wii systems can also output RGB, it's a software switch. You need to set your system to a different region. It's just fine for RetroArch and the like.

>>976597
That's what I had thought; but I believe I read somewhere that it's physically disabled somewhere as well.

I fucking love this Profeel PRO. My SCART to JP21 converter is in the mail and I can't wait to get it. Need to order some other cables too.

>>976605
Google it, people have tried it and it works. It's just a bit wonky because of US games in 576i/p.

>>976612
Your PVM story is great. Two CRT threads ago someone posts a Japanese flier for Sony "Profeel" monitors that are clearly PVMs but none of us was aware of it so we all go off searching for this new keyword (or at least I did) but YOU lucky Dog actually had one available. How much did you pay for the beast?

I wonder if that guy in Seattle got that one out of that dude's abandoned arcade cabinet project on Craigslist yet.

>>976697
You're gonna hate me when I say this but I didn't pay a dime for it.

I was as floored as you were. I wasn't even looking for it either, I was just looking up my usual random game stuff and I don't remember what I typed but it showed up in the computer section.

>>976724
Nah we're just in the same club I didn't pay anything for my PVM either

I can't find shit out the east coast in terms of PVMs on Craigslist barring the dickbags that put up the 20" ones for $300.

>>976742
You should be able to get one on eBay for well under $200 pretty easily.

>>976748
Essentially all the 20in PVMs that have been popping up in my feed recently either have bidding starting at $100+ before shipping, lacking worthwhile inputs, or have faults with them.

I've seen a couple good 13/14in models go by, but they're a bit pricey for their size as well.

Cali/West Coast is really lucky with this shit; 20L5 for $35 in Burbank.

>>976765
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271249082179
http://www.ebay.com/itm/150946688428
Also tons of 13-14 inch ones

>>976798
I don't think I've seen the first one pass through my feed; Weird.

As for the second one, it looks like one of the composite only models.

>>976748
>>976765
>>976798
My big issue with resorting to eBay is simply not being able to see the unit before I actually purchase it. I'd really rather not spend $100+ on something that may or may not have problems, especially with the amount of hours these things were powered on for. I've never seen a PVM on eBay that wasn't sold as-is and it's really hard to judge based on the picture they show on the screen. It's never a grid so you can check for pincushioning, but always something like a shot of some movie.

Do dreamcasts really look better on PC monitors?

>>976546

I know. I've been looking for a new one for a while.

>>976985
I don't think its the fact that they are PC monitors, but because they use VGA.

>>974126
>i've never actually used a crt before
O_O

I understand that this is just going to become more and more common, but really:

O_O

>>974182
I have an old Ikegami in storage. It was in use for a loooong time before being decommissioned, apparently because it served its purpose well. Good picture, but I haven't used it in over 6 years

>>976985
Depends on the game really. I'd say the majority do, but games with sprites generally look better on a CRT.

>>977168
Sorry, I should fix that. Sprites look better on non-VGA output.

>>977160
Could you try to be less parasitic please.

I just saw a PVM on the news. :(

>>977183
Take yourself and this board less seriously.

Seriously.

>>974234
>Model number doesnt really matter.
It can actually tell you quite a bit; it's just that such lists are hard to obtain and maintain.

>The better brands are...

Sony, Toshiba, Mitsubishi, Matsushita brands, JVC, Sharp, Philips brands, Thomson brands, others

It was funny to see Sharp and Philips mentioned in the other post instead of some of these, as well as Panasonic but not Toshiba, etc.

>>974290
>Only the very last generation of CRTs had available flat screens.
Now *that* is a damnable lie, even if we're only talking about SDTVs..

>>975216
>It's possible to convert YUV to RGB and vice versa, without any lag or quality loss.
ftfy

>>975750
>So what would I need to get a 480p image from my NTSC Wii to a CRT monitor with VGA in?
Best option is a simple transcoder used with Wii component cables.

>There are Wii VGA cables, but will these work with a CRT monitor?
They should, but my interpretation of the symptoms people are reporting in the reviews for them is that they are very low bandwidth and subject to problems like dropouts. That's pathetic, frankly.

>expensive 480p CRT TV
They are almost, if not exactly, as cheap as CRT SDTVs.

>>975802
>As far as I know even HD or ED CRTs will have inherent input lag.

Feed one an HD or ED signal that requires no scaling and there is no input lag on the device's end.

>>976985
Not /vr/, but it should be, so here's a sage'd reply...

>>977170
>Sprites look better on non-VGA output.
That depends on the game too. Games with low-res sprites look bad over VGA, like Capcom fighters. However, Guilty Gear X uses hi-res sprites and looks better.

I have a Performance VGA Adapter (yeeeee!), and I switch modes going into the same TV depending on that.

>>977230
>a strong != any
If i quote someone, then i do it correctly.

Need some help /vr/:

Between a Sony Trinitron Color Video Monitor PVM 1354Q and a Sony Trinitron Color Video Monitor BVM-8021, which would be a better choice for all my /vr/ needs?

Is there any way to fix curvature issues that only effect one part of the screen? Pic related, the top right side curves inward. I've tried to fix it a couple of times but in the end I just wind up changing where the problem occurs.

>>977640
Go for the PVM just because it's twice as big.

>>977640

8 Inches is too small

>>977614
>I have no idea what ftfy means!
ftfy

>>977640
You should keep looking for a 2" super mega pro monitor. They're the absolute best.

Guy asking about Wii VGA cables again.

I did some searching and found a couple old HD CRT TVs on craigslist near me. Would these suffer from upscaling delay like a modern HDTV?

>>978464
yes

>>976612
The colors on that look fuckin nice man.

>>977812
That image makes me see black dots in the intersections where there are no black dots.

have you tried fucking with trapezoid knob or is there a degauss button?

>>978506
>That image makes me see black dots in the intersections where there are no black dots.

It's a common optical illusion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grid_illusion

>>974234
Nah dude. Those non-HD Trinitron widescreens are actually really really good. (The ones released in europe anyway)

From what I understand from these threads, component is not a true RBG signal, more similar to s-video, but I don't really understand why exactly that is. Can someone explain how SCART and BNC are different? My only desire is knowledge.

>>978848

Component is YPbPr, supposedly more bandwidth effecient than RGB for mostly the same quality

>>978859
It's actually exactly the same quality. You can see by using a Wii on a PVM that supports both. YPbPr just subtracts redundant color information.

>>978848
An RGB signal contains redundant (IOW, uselessly duplicated) color information. A YPbPr signal maintains identical quality without containing that redundant color data, saving on bandwidth.

S-video (Y/C - same "Y" as in YPbPr, aka luminance/luma) is inferior to both in that all color data (C, aka chrominance) is transmitted on one channel.

Remember that opening your CRT is dangerous...but simple to do safely.

Take an old extension cord and cut the end off without the male plug. Attach a red RCA jack to the colored (not green though) cord inside, a white to the black, and a yellow video jack to the bare/green. Plug these into the composite / audio jacks in the back (or front, doesn't matter) and the other end into the wall to safely ground the capacitor.

Your TV is safe to open.

>>979147
That sounds real iffy.
Where did you hear that?

>>979147

>>979147
I don't know SHIT about electronics, so I really don't know if this is trolling or not, but it sounds a lot like that peanut butter fire cookies recipe to me.

>>974234
So HD CRTs are no good? Will they all suffer from the same upscaling delay as modern LCD displays, or does the fact that they're analog remove that problem?

>>979236
HD CRTs have scalers just like LCDs do.

They don't play well with 240p sources, so 5th gen and back suffer; 6th Gen+Wii games at 480p on the other hand are pretty nice on them.

>>979280
Okay I think we should try to really nail down the difference between digital HD CRTs and CRTs with sufficient vertical resolution to display HD signals, such as most of us are quite aware many PVMs and BVMs are capable of.

I believe that consumer TVs generally labeled "HD ready" also fall into this category - and I think that if the TV lacks HDMI input it's more likely to fall into this category.

Just yesterday I tried to find a home for a "HD ready" Thomson RCA rear projection from one friend's garage to another friend's dad's basement. I was given the impression that it worked but three of us moved it a couple miles only to find out that no, it didn't. I think one of their dogs peed on it. They have a husky rescue.

>>979312
>such as most of us are quite aware many PVMs and BVMs are capable of.
I was under the impression that those were "multi-sync"(in the 15khz sense).

>>979320
Don't you have a 20m4u? Plug a HD component source into it and see what happens. I'm not going to bother on my m2mdu because it only has 600 vertical lines.

>>979339
Nope, M2MDU.

>>979350
Hmmm... We got that guy with the 25" "Profeel" but I think those bigger ones with the CMPTR port don't support YPbPr. We got some other people with PVMs and shit floating around they need to try it.

When I fed 240p to my little 28" LCD HDTV I was surprised to find that it did display including "scanlines" but it was stretched to 16:9. I suspect that's what we will discover even if we get some people doing it with "HD Ready" CRTs and the difference would come down to delay and tearing, which we can't automatically trust Anon to accurately observe especially when it comes to his own tubes.

>>979369
>but it was stretched to 16:9
I would think there would be a setting in the menu to correct that.

I have a shitty Sanyo "HD"(ED)CRT down stairs; While I don't know about tearing, I have noticed a small delay when playing Melee/Brawl with a buddy of mine. It was cheap, so it's not surprising at all though.

Still hoping to find either a nice WEGA set or Multiformat P/BVM for cheap; With Goodwill and the local thrift shops no longer accepting CRTs, I have a feeling that it will only become more difficult from here on out.

>>979384
I was so stoked when I found that little 13" WEGA in the OP for 99 cents.

>>979094
>An RGB signal contains redundant (IOW, uselessly duplicated) color information. A YPbPr signal maintains identical quality without containing that redundant color data, saving on bandwidth.
wut?
An RGB signal could have his sync either on the Green channel (Sync-on-Green) or in a separate wire (VGA has 2 for V and H, Scart uses the CVBS pin for CVBS or CSync).
YPbPr has it's sync on the Y channel.
So both of them just carry analogue signals, so your statement of 'redundant' makes no sense to me. But the Bandwidth is the same, just a different color format.
The voltage of each RGB channel defines the strength each color.
YPbPr works different: Y is essential the same thing (probably higher bandwidth) as the Y/Luminance of a S-Video signal.
Pb carries the difference between blue and luma (B − Y), Pr carries the difference between red and luma (R − Y).
And converting between these formats is done by using differential high-bandwidth OpAmps and resistors.
>http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/interfaces/diytranscoder.html
>http://www.mikrocontroller.net/attachment/11797/rybyrgb.pdf

>>980189
The previous answer was simplified just to answer anon's original question, but it's correct. You can ignore all the extraneous details you mention about sync and color space conversion, because it's simpler than that: Luminance + two color difference channels requires less total bandwidth than three fully expressed color channels.

The redundancy of RGB is in the discrete green channel. It's a lower-bandwidth signal anyway, which is why SoG is more common than SoR or SoB.

There are other reasons broadcasters and CE manufacturers would use it (like convenience advantages when dealing with legacy black & white systems), but for our purposes the important thing is that there is nothing wrong with using it compared to RGB. So for example, if some part of your signal path introduces a color space conversion from RGB to YPbPr (like the console itself), you don't have to go out of your way to convert it back as long as your display can handle it.

>>980507
Or vice-versa. You can easily to semi-easily pull RGB out of classic consoles and you can easily convert RGB to YPbPr. For this reason, I'll probably stop buying PVMs now that I have the one. My next purchase will probably be a "SCART-to-YUV" adapter and if I did decide to replace one of my arcade monitors it would be with another RGB only monitor, although tti-mode. I may add a SCART-to-JAMMA harness when I rebuilt my Bally Sente into a MAME.

>>980558
>>980507
>>980189

Thanks for the details, that's pretty informative.

OP here. I have a general question about YPbPr - Is it okay to split it? Or will the Chrominance level get halved? I'm about to move these two little 13s into their final positions flanking the HD in the living room. I'd like to use the 03 as a component preview.

I'm sure it's okay to merge them as long as only one is live at a time so I could just hook a switch box up backwards to choose if the signal is going to the 13" or the HD but if they can be split I could use the switch box the right way around and bee playing one system in the HD and one on the 13 simultaneously, which won't be possible the other way around.

>>981145
Almost any Monitor/TV has a termination resistors (75ohm it should be, but on my TV it is 82ohm) on their inputs (RGB,Y/C,YPbPr and CVBS).
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_termination
Now the only exception are professional/studio monitors, those have two connectors for each signal and switches to activate the termination resistors with the purpose to 'daisy-chain' the same signal to multiple monitors.
The result of double terminating is a too weak/dark signal (usually the half as bright).
The result of a not terminating is a probably too strong/bright signal (i don't know, what will really happen).

>I could just hook a switch box up backwards to choose if the signal is going to the 13" or the HD
With this you have the right termination.

>I could use the switch box the right way around and bee playing one system in the HD and one on the 13 simultaneously
With this you probably have a double terminated signal, it will be darker than it should be and you have to adjust the contrast on both.

>>981145
>I have a general question about YPbPr - Is it okay to split it?
Splitting video the right way involves amplification. You want a distribution amp.

>Or will the Chrominance level get halved?
Yes, you attenuate the signal and you introduce reflections that lead to ringing.

>I'm sure it's okay to merge them as long as only one is live at a time so I could just hook a switch box up backwards to choose if the signal is going to the 13" or the HD
You would only want to do that with a physical switch that has been impedance-matched.

>but if they can be split I could use the switch box the right way around and bee playing one system in the HD and one on the 13 simultaneously, which won't be possible the other way around.
Two outputs? Do you have a matrix switch or are you using the CVBS+stereo RCA jacks on a hybrid switch as a second set of inputs and outputs? Be careful if you're doing the latter, as video requires better internal connections than audio, and cheaply-made equipment may not be up to snuff (for HD especially).

>>976537
What's the advantage of a Triniton anyway

my father has one in his basement, he said he got it years ago but never used it, and I could have it if I wanted it. Probably going to take it anyway, but what's the advantage of one, seems like it's regarded as "the best" from these threads

>>981326
It has a cool name.

>>981326
It's Sony's trade name for aperture grille displays (which they invented), which offers high sharpness and increased maximum brightness over older display types.

>>981312
I actually have a sick YPbPr distribution amp so suck on that but I'm planning to use it to send the satellite box signal all around the house not just to make my Wii and 360 equally bright and yes, of course it's a physical switch box I have like seven of them, I went through a phase where I bought any one I saw that had Component+SVideo. Unfortunately my little Wega lacks SVideo for some reason. If I could have split it, I would have hooked it up forward (several inputs, output split to both the Wega and the HD) but since I have double, confident sounding confirmation looks like I'll have to hook it up backwards (all signals physically merged to one input, output switching between the Wega and the HD).

>>981297
Yeah, see you know what I'm saying much better plus you have a more self-confident tone plus you were inb4. While both of your information is shooting above my head yours seems more technical and accurate. I have a 20" pvm but I don't think my wife would tolerate it up on the main bridge, it's going to have to stay down here on the battle bridge. So far she thinks 13" CRTs are "cute" (knock on wood) but your point about passthrough is again giving me the urge to get a PVM-13xxxx. They pop up a bit more often and are cheaper to ship but I think they may be too deep for my current application... The Wega is pretty surprisingly deep already though.

>>981326
I found a German article about the Trinitron from 1972, it has a nice comparison pic.
>http://www.fernsehmuseum.de/die-trinitron-bildroehre-1972.html

>>981349
>so suck on that
What?

>>981349

You have a very strange attitude when it comes to requesting and receiving help. Both reply posts are accurate and neither seems malicious in any way.

>>981360
I want to know what I said that made him go angry-confused-mode.

>>981326
It's because of the shape of the "screen" that the beam shines through on its way to the surface of the tube. See my posts up here
>>974468
>>974473
The left pattern on both images is what most CRT TVs use, shadow mask. It's sort of a honeycomb shape and when you have real sharp signals with visible scanlines it makes sort of multicolor bumps on top of and below your "pixels".

Aperture Grille, found in Trinitrons uses straight vertical rails, so the edges of "pixels" end up looking more square.

The other kind of tri-dot method is what most CRT monitors use. The "pitch" of those dots can be very small and the smaller, the sharper the edges will be but it'll never look like a real TV.

Most of us consider the Trinitron to be the best of both worlds.

>>981365
I just didn't like your "you need pro equipment" tone plus my question had already been answered. Really, he also was advocating pro equipment but he just was more likable about it. I wasn't confused. Don't take my jabs personally, I'm just trying to keep a little 4chan spice in the conversation.

>>981386
>"you need pro equipment" tone
Distribution amps are easy to come by. Ever been near an electronics store that was liquidating? I would have given you 4-5 more if you lived nearby, I literally have more than I need and I answer posts here to be helpful anyway.

>plus my question had already been answered
The other post didn't appear until after I refreshed the page. This is a slow board, do you think in 4 minutes I should have refreshed before posting while my post is just sitting right there in the comment box?

>he just was more likable about it.
>Don't take my jabs personally, I'm just trying to keep a little 4chan spice in the conversation.
You're fucking retarded, and you sound like you expect coddling when people answer your questions, but don't take that personally because I can only see what you do and I don't know you personally.

I'm not offended, just annoyed. Mission accomplished...?

>>981409
>Mission accomplished...?
Yeah pretty much. I know my distribution amp is worth over $100 I didn't know there were cheap little ones. Want to recommend a really cheap one that will do 2-way with a <5' run or are umad?

>>981409
You should definitely use auto-refresh. Yes.

>>981360
>>981365
>>981386
>>981409
I just posted, because it seemed that nobody wanted to answer his question.
And forget to mention that i explained signal termination, the reason behind the need of distribution amps.

>>981431
It's not impossible of building a amp yourself.

>>981445
>And forget to mention
*not forget

>>979147
Confirmed, just tried. Adjusted potentiometers while inside.

>>981352
Wow that is German as fuck. For a second I thought that pic of a PVM at the top of the article was from 1972 like whaaaaat? Any idea how much more expensive Trons were back then? Because the superiority has never since been so obvious.

>>981431
Seriously? You want to challenge my temperament into helping you more?

>>981436
Done, thanks. I'll try it as the default, so we'll see how that works across a bunch of tabs.

>>981445
Nobody's blaming you for anything, bro. Dude just assumed ill will on my part and acted like an entitled botch about it. My help wasn't welcome and that's fine, there won't be any more of it. This board is full of people who *want* to help, so he'll get replies anyway. I'll just make sure not to correct any mistakes I see; I'll leave that to you.

>>981517
>About the comparion pic
>http://www.fernsehmuseum.de/die-trinitron-bildroehre-1972.html
>Anmerkung: Dieser extreme optische Unterschied mag in 1972 zum Zeitpunkt dieses Artikel noch vorhanden gewesen sein. In den Jahren danach wurde zumindest an den europäischen Farbfernseh-Röhren kräftig weiter entwickelt. Die Qualität der Trinitron Röhre wurde nach Meinung des Autors gr dieser Seiten jedoch nie erreicht. Rechts im (Vergleichs-) Bild ist übrigens ein uralter amerikanischer oder japanischer Farbfernseher mit überholtem Trommeltuner zu sehen.

short translation
Notice: This extreme visual difference in the time of 1972 was there. But in the years allot of improvement was done in the European color-CRTs. But the quality of the Trinitron tube was never reached according to the author gr of these pages. The right TV in the (comparison-)picture is a very old american or japanese color television with a obsolete *drum-tuner.

*i don't know if this is the right English term for it

>>981564
Yeah, I know what you're talking about. We call them dials. Is it saying the comparison TV is also 72 vintage or is it saying "very old" even compared to the Trinitron. I like German magazine articles they know their shit and when foreign stuff is equally good or better, they acknowledge it. Not /vr/ but I love the pictures you can find of LeBarons being driven around by smiling upper middle class Germans like they're Mercedes.

>>981531
>Seriously? You want to challenge my temperament into helping you more?
Yeah I thought maybe I'd get a twofer. I don't believe you're going to be able to resist correcting people, though.

>>981531
You think we really care about a trimask screen? Frame rate doesn't matter. PVM and a Wii is best

>>981431
>umad

Well it's been a good run /vr/, but we all knew it would go to shit eventually.

So long.

>>981735
You do know you're contributing to the problem by complaining, right?

>>981735
If you think there's no trace of 4chan culture on /vr/ then you haven't been to a shaders/filters thread or a flash cartridge thread or even any of our crt threads before we managed to get rid of the xrgb marketer. Get a thicker skin we got a reputation for being grown ass men here.

>>981664
>I don't believe you're going to be able to resist correcting people, though.
Might be tough. But maybe I'll be lucky and things will go the cow2beef.exe route to everyone's enjoyment.

>>981708
I think you mean to reply to someone else.

>>981735
lel

Discussing CRTs on /vr/.
What could possibly go wrong?
Also bump.

>>983354
That SCART?

>>983362
Yes it's a European 21inch Sony KV-C252(1D) Made in West Germany 1991

>>983367
That's cool I really wish I could find a SCART TV here in the states just for reference. AFAIK the only one is the RCA Dimensia. I could have had one but it was a 3 hour drive and the stupid thing is a console TV with too much extra cabinet.

Just out of curiosity, how do old school systems look on HDTVs that have native SCART? I could afford to import one of those but shipping on tubes is too high.

>>983397
>how do old school systems look on HDTVs that have native SCART?
They won't get 240/288p right. But other than that it looks "okay".

Also Pic is my battlestation on wheels.
Almost everything can do RGB, can you guess which one can't?
Below the TV is a first generation DVB-S receiver DSR5003 (aka Coship) and a Sony DVP-NS38 DVD player but i mostly use the TV for gaming.
And yes the power strip on the bottom right belongs to the battlestation.

>>983426
I don't need to guess to know that NES can't do SCART unless I'm guessing it doesn't have a PC10 PPU in it and it's not French (but that's just fake RGB anyway)

>>983438
Exactly and the N64 is PAL and RGB modded.
Also the TVs Y/C input doesn't look so nice like RGB, it looks more like Composite without dotcrawl.
Should i post the back of the TV?

>>983426
I can pretty much visualize it but protip: any picture of a Trinitron with native SCART will make USAbros drool unless they've discovered SCART-to-YPbPr transcoding

>>983470
That's why i posted it in the first place.

Can any anons speak for the Trinitron WETA flat-tubes that were made in 16:9 aspect ratio? It would be hilarious to play a 360 or PS3 game in 1080i on one.

>>983486
They look better than LCD HDTVs. The luminance and color temp are a lot like a plasma. Sometimes they have their own unique problems when it comes to scan width, which of course isn't a problem with fixed horizontal resolution digital HDTVs.

Overall they compare very favorably with most HDTVs they're just big and heavy and aren't available any bigger than forty-some inches but they're not /vr/

>>983486
I have one.

>It would be hilarious to play a 360 or PS3 game in 1080i on one.
If I owned either system I'd probably be doing that very thing. People do that all the time. Just be sure to fix overscan in the service menu.

I'm typing this on an HTPC connected to another CRT HDTV, but this one's 4:3.

>>983501
Also, as long as you're not scaling/deinterlacing, you will have CRT-level response time, and you will generally have the same advantage over LCDs that plasma users have.

I have the opportunity to get a 27" FD Trinitron KV-27FS13, would this tv be recommended? I have yet to see any PVMs or anything nice like that in my area so I'm thinking this might be the next best thing.

>>984341
It's as good as you're going to get out of a consumer TV and in all reality, for the prices people pay for relatively simple SCART-to-RGBS breakout cables you can buy a SCART-to-YUV transcoder and get the same performance out of that Wega, in theory.

I believed this whole heartedly but then somebody posted close up pics of their Wega supposedly displaying 240p over component and it had heinous color bleed but then I got a Wega of my own and the video quality is practically identical to my PVM from the same 240p over component source.

Bottom line, assuming it's like $30 and it's the size you want I say definitely go for it and spend your PVM money on a SCART-to-YUV transcoder and some SCART cables for your systems.

>>984341
it has an s-video input and three composite inputs. it's a beautiful tv

>>984618
i actually have 4 nintendos hooked up at once

I picked up a 20" Emerson yesterday. Removable glass cover and separate video input, despite being quite old. I quite like it.
15 bucks marked down from 30

>>984636
aw, you had me excited thinking you had a NEC branded tv most consumer models they made had glass plates like that.

how classy would it be to have a NEC tv with a NEC console hooked up to it?

>>984645
About as classy as a PlayStation connected to a Trinny.

>>984601
>>984618
Thanks for the advice, waiting to hear back for a time to go pick it up. I'll keep you guys posted, should be a nice step up from my older Sanyo tv.

I can't believe nobody has reverse engineered these things or came up with a DIY alternative, no way am i going to pay $60 for one, especially when i will have to also buy SCART cables for all of my consoles as well.

>>985938
see the links at the bottom >>980189
also the RGB->YUV transcoder in the link is designed for a DC coupled RGB (VGA) signal, you need to add a clamp for turning the SCARTs AC coupled RGB signal to DC.
Or use that one.
>http://elm-chan.org/works/yuv2rgb/rgb2yuv.png
>http://elm-chan.org/works/yuv2rgb/report.html

The OpAmps suitable for this high bandwidth are not cheap, but still less than buying a commercial one.

>>985938
Well it's actually more like $50 but you also need a SCART A/V breakout with passthrough to pull the sound out which will cost you $7.

You don't HAVE to do all that stuff, you can just use the cables you have on any old TV we're just discussing how to get the best possible signal. Considering that people are paying $50 for simple SCART-to-RGBS breakout cables to hook up to PVMs that cost way more than what you can get Wegas with component for I think it's a pretty good alternative.

>>981352
I was a bit bored, so i decided to translate the author comment on the top (blue box). It tells some interesting history (in POV of the author) behind Color-television and the Trinitron in Europe.


The Trinitron CRT - what['s] (was) so special about it?

In West Germany on the radio-show 1967 when the PAL Color-television has been introduced, the companies and dealers finally had something new !! to sell. Actually the point was - to sell. The market of black-white TVs seemed to be satisfied.

"Foreigners" (outside Europe) did not gotten a PAL license from Telefunken and the European Market was happily under it's "own" protectionist control, especially Germany West and - (almost) everyone was satisfied.

A few companies engineered and build Color CRTs and there was "defiantly" (no) arrangement about the prices. All device-manufacturers had to buy their CRTs from Telefunken or Siemens or Philips/Valvo or GTS/Sylvania. There were probably small manufacturers, but they did not stand a chance against the big names.

The time when there was a shortage, was the first time when the company Sony got some attention, they changed the complete "not controlled" television-world-market with a very special, really rectangle and extreme bright Color-CRT. *And Sony grew completely from bottom of the root, they did it quiet and secretly. *Especially the Europeans gotten a eerie feeling from this, quite fast.

*these sentences weren't simple to translate and they didn't made that much sense

>>986721
>And Sony grew completely from bottom of the root, they did it quiet and secretly.
>Especially the Europeans gotten a eerie feeling from this, quite fast.

>>986814
Just like i said, it wasn't simple to translate. I tried my best to carry the original meaning over.

>>986826
Sounds awesome to me just like it is

>>986721
Das some 80s sino-deutsch shit rite dere

>>986814
The implication is that WW2 saw the Japanese emerge silently having built a nast industrial manufacturing core and wrecking half the world while the readers of that article wrecked the other. Being written to appeal to a German audience, the irony is completely lost on the writer and audience. All they care about is blaming the Nips for Hitler's sperg-out.

Just bought this 2002 Sony Trinitron for 20 dollars at a local Habitat for humanity.

Sorry for the non-retro game, haven't had time to hook up any older systems yet

Just bought this 2002 Sony Trinitron for 20 dollars at a local Habitat for humanity.

Sorry for the non-retro game, haven't had time to hook up any older systems yet

>>989385

>REmake

Proceed...

>>989385
>Retro remake on Trinitron via composite
You may begin the training, Padawan.

If a TV says "HDTV" on it, is it definitely not a CRT?

>>989731
No. There are HD CRTs.

You should be able to instantly recognize a CRT. The screen is the end of a glass "tube" like a bulb. It'll be curved glass. The case will be very deep and heavy. Real projection and DLP also have deep, heavy cases but their screens will be plastic. Plasmas will have glass screens but they'll be thin and flat.

That having been said, even if an HDTV is a CRT it's probably still not suitable for retro games.

Also, something else I've recently discovered is that new school CRTs are often shit at receiving OTA SD UHF/VHF signals no matter how good the antenna is. This probably doesn't matter to anybody except me but I use UHF transmitters to wirelessly share SD video around my house.

>>989912
Whats with the CRTs that have a flatscreen? I have a bunch of thouse...any problem retro game wise?

>>989932
Even so-called flatscreen CRTs aren't really flat, just flatter. They're a little bit more fragile than curved CRTs and most people think they look a little better but they are functionally identical to traditionally curved ones. 100% ok for /vr/ as long as they're 4:3 SD

>>989950
>>989932
They also tend to be noticeably deeper than curved CRTs

>wake up
>look out window
>see this

the little trinny is RF only, the panasonic is way to big/heavy and the other trinny is suspiciously similar to the one i threw out a couple of months ago (poor geometry)

I posted in this thread earlier about my opportunity to pick up a flatscreen SD Trinitron(Manufactured in May 2002) and upgrade from my Sanyo tube which was made in Jan. of 2000. I brought it home today and had a chance to set it up and test it out. The colors are definitely more lush and the scanlines more satisfying, what concerns me though is I noticed when flipping through the setup that the menu was kind of vibrating in place and not sitting still. I loaded up some games and thankfully the screen seemed fine, it's just when I'm in the options menu of the tv. Anyone here maybe have an idea as to what is causing this? I got the paper booklet with it and plan on reading through it as I also noticed it kind of seems that the screen is slightly curved inwards at times but I'm not sure if that's just my brain needing to adjust from the change to flatscreen.
Thanks for any advice.

So, my search for gamecube component cables have led me to this. Not exactly what I had been hoping for, but it'll do.

The next step is to find a way to marry the D-terminal to the BNC connectors on my PVM; The guide I've found suggests slicing of the end and replacing it with a SCART adapter, but I'd rather not ruin a seemingly new cable.

What should I do?

>>990969
>when flipping through the setup that the menu was kind of vibrating in place and not sitting still. I loaded up some games and thankfully the screen seemed fine, it's just when I'm in the options menu of the tv
I'd assume that when it is the menu, it's displaying in 480i, where as it displays the game in 240p; The slight jitter comes from the interlacing.

>>990984
Why do you even want Gamecube component cables when the Wii has native Gamecube support?

>>990991
Gamecube puts out a cleaner picture than the Wii does, and the Wii doesn't support the GBPlayer.

>>990984
Not exactly what you are looking for, but would these help?

>>991000
There's a very good chance that that is exactly what I'd need. Hadn't gotten a chance to actually look it up; Bid on the item before work and found that I won it when I got home.

Now to find where the best place to order them from is.

>>991007
I have a spare that I bought from Japan, but I'm not willing to give it up so easily because it's impossible to find in America, and relatively rare in a physical store in Japan. It's a D-terminal female to Component male adapter.

>>991016
>impossible to find in America
Not impossible, just pricy ($40+).

One came with my old Japanese network DVD player, but it's of inferior quality.

>>991265
http://www.solarisjapan.com/d-terminal-female-to-component-adapter-cable-male/

This is the exact same one I have(except I paid ¥590 for it).

this is the crt i use, a 27 inch 2004 trinitron.
ill followup with a closeup picture of a snes game using "s-video" using a cheap multi-cable that i am almost certain is not pinned correctly so it's basicly composite.

>>992032
here is the snes picture. i need to retake a picture of what it looks like when i feed component into it.

Here's some good "magic" resolutions for CRT monitors

1280x240@120hz
1280x224@120hz
2560x240@120hz
2560x224@120hz
3840x240@120hz
3840x224@120hz

The first two will allow you to integer scale 256 and 320 horizontal resolutions to the full width of the screen. The second two allow 256, 320, and 512 to scale integer horizontally to full width. The last two are the same for 256, 320, and 384.

Also, really huge horizontal resolutions probably don't need integer scale due to nearest neighbor scaling errors being tiny pixels that are smaller than your monitor's dot pitch.

AFAIK not a single manufacturer makes properly wired multi av cables. They are all composite on one or both C/Y pins.

Your pic exhibits banding typical of this.

>>992060
>They are all composite on one or both C/Y pins.
Composite on the C pin shouldn't cause that much problems, because the part of the TV that converts the input to RGB is probably going to ignore the low frequency parts (Luminance) of the chroma signal anyway.

Composite on the Y pin is a total fuckup, because the color sub-carrier will be visible on the screen. And that does not look nice. The reason why Y/C exists, is to bypass the composite Luminance bandwidth limit. Which results into a quality sharper than the plain composite.

>>992036
was getting some glare but here is super metroid off of a WiiU using component cables @480i

Ah, another CRT thread.

How do you think mine is /vr/? I've seen a lot of people saying that you should not under any circumstances get a widescreen CRT. Why is that? Mine has a good 4:3 mode.

Britfag here by the way, 3 SCART ports on my TV.

>>992032
Hey bro. I've seen you a lot on /g/ recently.

>>992241

Goddamned capcha. Here's my TV.

>>992247
it is because majority of what you would want to hook up to a crt is 4:3 so it would be better to get a good 4:3 display that has a widescreen mode if you want to display widescreen.

>>992260

I can see that 4:3 is ideal for most things, but what about things that do support widescreen? Like some N64 games, DVDs and more modern consoles that still look better on CRT (i.e PS2 etc).

I mean sure, if you're only gonna link up 4:3 consoles I can see why widescreen is a no no. Otherwise it's pretty useful though.

>>992270
my 2004 trinitron supports a windowbox setting to allow support for widescreen. it's set to auto but can also be forced on if it fails to detect.

>>992270
here is a picture that shows what i was talking about

>>992279
shit, sorry i forgot to set it as jet force gemini isn't auto detected. here is the 16:9 mode when i manually set it and widescreen set in the options

>>992290

Ah shit, that is pretty cool. I've never seen a 4:3 screen that can manually do that before. I guess you could say that makes the screen smaller but with a TV that size that wouldn't really matter.

I heard someone say that widescreen CRTs upscale everything to 480i, but that sounds like crap to me. Any ideas as to what this guy was on about?

>>991974
Nice, but that's shipped from Japan. I was talking about the U.S.

>>991974
Haha, interesting. Someone else knows my friends site?

>>991974
Right now it seems as though my choices are either ordering from there, ordering from http://www.goldenshop.com.hk/AI-trad/Misc_htm/m_d2comp.htm , or tearing apart the cable.

>>992396
The adapter in that link won't work, it has a D-terminal male. D-terminal couplers are also really rare. You want a D-terminal female.

>Old one's on it's last legs.
>Might as well start a new one.

Why, may I ask? Why do we have to have a CRT thread at all times? How much can possibly be said about CRTs that the conversation must be endless?

>>992397
Shit, you're right. Could have sworn it had said female.

>>992403
KyaDash, what are you trying to do? You can accept RGB signals, why bother with component? Find a good Radeon HD 4xxx card and output a real RGB signal. You can make your own cable with nice BNC connectors and external sync for your holes.

The computer can do everything you want. Don't bother with Soft-15khz, you need the Radeon. The Groovy guy claims he's the only one he's ever seen to have gotten PowerStrip etc. to work with emulation. CRT_Emudriver, cables are irrelevant, you make your own. The hardware store has BNC connectors, easier to get than new RCA jacks.

>>992739
CRT_Emudrver in this confusing sentence is meant to be the be-all-end all.

Cables are what is irrelevant, not CRT_Emudriver. The computer is more powerful than any console. I'd also like to see the NES through real RGB outputs through Nestopia / RetroArch on the PC with a Radeon.

>>992739
Dolphin doesn't have shit on actual hardware when it comes to compatibility. If we were talking about SNES or even PS1, you'd have a very good point; but not with Gamecube.

>>992743
>I'd also like to see the NES through real RGB outputs through Nestopia / RetroArch on the PC with a Radeon.
I'd like to see that compared to what this eventually results in:
http://universalppu.com/?page_id=10

>>992759
I didn't realize this thread was for discussion of the Gamecube.

>>992759
So the problem is that you're unaware of the fact that the Wii is fully backwards compatible with the Gamecube?

>>992818
It's for CRT discussion, and by extension how to get the best possible signal from a system.
Since I don't live in Europe, that just so happens to be component.

>>992825
see
>>990997

>>992826
Did the moderators decide that we were allowed to get the best pictures out of our Dreamcasts on this board now, let alone Gamecubes? Are you in personal contact with the site's administration? Are you in fact one of them, forging your own tripcode and handing out rules about what this board is for? Go ahead and ban me then.

>>992915
Only way to play actual GBC games on a TV.

I'd also like to do a comparison between the MMX games on SNES, and their gamecube ports in the MMX collection.

>>993052
>Super Game Boy
>Japan only Super Game Boy 2

>>993064
I'd actually like to get a SGB2 at some point.

Accuracy and all that jazz.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RGB-Scart-Cable-for-Sega-Dreamcast-Saturn-Super-Nintendo-Gamecube-DC-SNES-XBOX-/161034622565?pt=US_Video_Game_Cables_Adapters&hash=item257e695665
Worth the risk?

>>990984
Putting a chip on this cable that handles RGB instead of within the system was such a massive dick move by Nintendo.

>>993301

It's because Nintendo thought the world was going to go YPBPR instead of RBG.

>>993301
Wasn't it to cut costs?

Take something not many people would make use of and place it into an optional accessory.

>>993297
I've considered it myself but it omits the Genesis/Megadrive my number 1 highest priority for RGB.

>>990984
>>993301
>>993412

Also, all the original reviews I read about the D-Sub cable mentioned ghosting issues. It is honestly cheaper at this point to just buy a Wii and run your GCN games through it than to hunt down a component cable.

>>993448
But it's not D-sub, its D-terminal, a connection that's used only in Japan. And if a D-terminal cable has ghosting issues, then there's an issue with something else because it outputs the exact same signal as the 3 RCA cable component cables, just in a different port. I got my cable from Japan where it's about 5 times cheaper than in America, so getting a Wii is more expensive.

>>993052
>how to get the best possible signal from a system.
Is the best signal for a GameBoy Color a CRT display?

>>993764
Yes.

>>993764
Sure, why not.

>>993764
No, a backlit AGS-101 model SP is.

>>993793
This looks more faithful and accurate to me.

>>993793
>>993807
Scaynloins

anybody use plasma monitors for emulation? input lag is basically nonexistent and I scored full points on the pixperan readability test without any trouble on a 2011 model panasonic

>>994481
My primary desktop PC is hooked to an old 42" plasma. Native resolution is low so text is a little bit headachey but damn the color intensity and response time (I play 360 on it too) are tits.

I was recently given a sansui television it works well enough except for one issue, the right side of the image looks distorted like it's curved upwards. Does anybody know what's wrong or how I can fix it? Sorry about the terrible picture.

>>995165
It's a geometry issue. See if you can find a service menu.

>>995330
There's no service menu, is there any other way to fix it?

>>995452
Well, you could smack the TV around but you'd probably make it worse instead of better. Are you sure there's no service menu? They're usually hidden.

>>995454
Before there were service menus, the geometry was set via resistor trimmers on the circuit boards and can be mostly accessed by opening the TV.

>>994481
>plasma
>input lag is basically nonexistent
Plasma is digital, you do have input lag.

>>994815
>response time
This, plasma has a very fast response time.

>>995454
Turns out there is a service menu, what should I look for now?

hunterk 2013-08-01 14:11:39

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Posts: 673

@thelostskeleton
Some games use SRAM as scratch space, so there's no way for RetroArch to know whether that's happening or if it's writing a save, so it only writes to file when you quit. However, there's an autosave option you can enable via RGUI that will write to file periodically (every 5 seconds or so, maybe?).

SNES on Wii, accurate to the last.

>>995556
Fix your problem

>>995578
Sorry, that was rude.

1. Look up the service manual and familiarize yourself with each of the settings.
2. Write down all default values before even thinking about changing them.
3. Change the appropriate setting in the service menu by very small increments at a time.

>>995480
Plasma broadcast monitors are in some ways the pallbearer for crt monitors, all video processing is optional so you get a clean feed and the lag factor is lower than any non-crt. If they would drop the price to 750 I would get the TH-42PF50U tomorrow

>>995669
True to a degree, but even those have to scale non-native resolutions or process analog signals because of discrete pixel addressing. OLED will serve a similar purpose.

Nothing besides another analog technology could ever possibly replace CRT. Even SED wouldn't have because it was digital.

>>995669
ok this interests me greatly, the pdf manual mentions 120hz support but how is that possible at 1080p? I thought there was bandwidth restrictions

120hz support is a requirement for frame sequential 3d

you probably have to use a dual input board to get around bandwidth limitations

How do I change the geometry on my PVM?

>>995784
Service menu

so authentic

I don't think I can play F-Zero X on an LCD again, but I don't want to bring two large TVs to school, especially when one is bulky. Are there any good small options for a CRT, preferably easily obtained locally from thrift stuff? Columbus OH for the record.

>>996798
1. Go to thrift store
2. Find a Trinitron with component and/or s-video

>>996798

There are many 13-14" CRT laying around in Thriftstores, and most of the time, there's a trinitron or two with them.

>>996798
>>996810
>>996934
13" Wegas are rare as hell I've only ever found one of them but it definitely belonged to a guy in Columbus at one time. That LOVEcinema sticker on it makes it pretty clear.

There are more Samsung brand 13"s that have component inputs. There was some guy on the Columbus Craigslist a few weeks back with three for sale. Wanted like $25.

I've had the best luck at Goodwills. Stay away from Ohio Thrift their CRTs are overpriced. There's a big Goodwill and a decent sized Salvation Army on Morse near Easton. I've also had good luck with the Goodwill on East Broad.

YMMV

>>997059

Well I don't have to get a WEGA model to have RGB as most of the Trinitron here in Yuroland have a SCART input that support this type of signal.

>>997121
Columbus, Ohio is not in Europe but yes it's nice that in Europe TVs all the way back to even the mid80s (in France at least) had high quality video inputs. It doesn't help the guy heading for OSU though.

>>997129
>(in France at least)
80s TVs in Germany had also RGB capable SCART.

>>997135
I believe that. That German article from 1972 about Trinitrons from earloer in the thread was pert interesting.

Here in the US, my parents STILL think RF is just fine.

Saw this today at the local YMCA.

Trinitron XBR 36" or 40"?

Weight a ton. The guys working there said it ran flawlessly still, and they just swapped it out for a new LED TV.

I didn't take it because I am already have 4 or 5 HDTVs, and don't need something this big for retro gaming.

>>997494
>I didn't take it

It hurts

>>997496

Is it a decent TV then?

>>997507
Assuming it has component, which after googling it, it seems to, yes, very.

>>997532

Neat..

Well if it remains homeless by nightfall some indian children will find it and put a brick through it. Hopefully a retro gamer will find it first.

When getting SCART cables should I stay away from these cheap cables with multiple console inputs?

>>997592

Yup, also, some cheap SCART cables just carry composite signal through the cable and don't use the RGB pins, stay alert.

>>997592
>>997603
Not only that, most cheap 3rd party cables for Nintendo consoles are made of thin unshielded wires.

So i opened the one that i own and soldered shielded wires from the plug to a little box where i can enable the resistors or capacitors and switch between RGB and Y/C and CVBS on the SCART socket.
Also the SCART cable in the pic is a old high quality one (note how thick it is).

so, do you guys pronounce it "skart" or "s-cart"?

>>997702
>skart
Yes.

>s-cart
wut
I never heard it like this, and i was a former TV technician. All my coworkers, customers and i always pronounced it as skart (some people like to call it 'euroskart').

When people play in tate mode do they just use a normal 4:3 CRT?

>>997710
heard "S-Cart" from my broadcasting professor when he was discussing analog signals in class

>>997702

Here in France we call it "Peritel"

Is a PVM / Ikagawa Trinitron RGB video monitor worth acquiring if it's from a television studio? Will it have been left on for weeks at a time with an NTSC color test pattern burned in? With white broadcast metadata burned in?

Experiences?

>>998198
It's very possible. It depends if it was used for production or for control.

>>997567
Unfortunately circumstance dictates these things but I am sure you will see another one...big crts don't get picked up too quickly (due to that very reason).

>>998198
>Ikagawa
Yeah, keep an eye out for one of those. Don't stop looking!

>>998198
>>998619
>Ikagawa
Ikegami?

>>998625
Not like he wouldn't have picked up on that on his own eventually, but you ruined my thoughts of having somebody going around looking for an Ikagawa.

>>998635
Sorry about that.

>>974085
glorious PVM-2530 master race.

>>998658
So you got an RGB monitor to use an AES on?

>>998686
i made a scart connector for the 2530. it just so happens that my AES has a scart cable.

>>998704
You could probably trade that AES with Shodown 4 for an MVS with a 161-in-1

>>998774
actually I just sold my 2 slot mvs with a 100 in 1, and bought this AES on a whim.

>>998806
argh

>>998934
wut

>>998954
well, I don't want to brag but I bought it for $20 with the game.

>>998945
Please tell me you got a crazy deal on that MVS

>>998957
lol well that's hardly a whim. Are you that guy who got it at a yard sale from some divorcee?

>>998961
funny story, I bought it from a guy on craigslist who tried to do an overclock mod on it, he fucked up the mod and sold it to me as non working. needless to say it was an easy fix. best $20 i have ever spent in my life.

>>998968
What an idiot the controller alone is worth twice that. Do you use a keyword craigslist watcher program or were you just browsing?

>>998972
just found it by pure happenstance, i was looking for my own posting (the 2 slot MVS) and found this aes, was going to shell out $200 bucks until he told me it was fucked. talked him down to $20. I guess good guys catch a break every now and then.

>>998983
lol how do you talk someone down from $200 to $20?

>>997702
>>997710
Yeah because Luma/Chroma is pronounced svideo like Svedka vodka, right?

>>997728
Because your prof wasn't some degenerate tech school TV repairman, he was a real man.

>>999004
SCART is an acronym S-Video is an abbreviation.

Are any of the 14" Trinitrons good or were they all just budget TV's?

I need something that i can sit on my desk next to a computer monitor.

>>999024
I just recently found a 13" Wega. It's the one on the right in the OP.

>>998658
Can you check the back of that PVM-2530 and see if it has an unusual 8 pin, square RGB connector with slanted pin holes and two groups of 3 and the other 2 pins off to one side?

If so, what do you know about this pin? I'll need to make a custom breakout cable.

>>974232

Looks like Sonic 1, Zone 2 but it could be just me.

Does anybody know a thing about PVM-1910s? I can possibly get one for about $100 but I can't really find out any specific information about it. I've heard they're basically the same as the 20L5 but those can do 480p and I can't find any confirmations about the 1910 being able to do that. Also, looking at the back of the unit, the RGB inputs only note that they're RGB and not component. I'd be using component for the most part so if they don't support it then I'm kind of shit out of luck.

>>999125
Fuck component that thing has 23 / 25 pin RGB Amiga style. Hook a Radeon card to it with CRT_Emudriver pumping out flawless signals.

>>999143
The question is can it accept a 15 to 31 khz signal on the 25 pin VGA or just 31 (480p)

>>999151
My money would be on 15 only.

Do NOT pick that up. $150 is a horrible price for a 19" PVM and I recommend against PVM's ingeneral. While theyare nice for S-Vid/composite/component inputs and have the convenient casing and amps, their picture quality is just not as good as arcade monitors. I have compared my finest PVM (2950Q) along side my 25" wells and the image on the wells isSIGNIFICANTLY better. Thatsaid,ifyou still want a PVM you can get 25"ers shipped off ebay for that$150

What's the best/cheapest way to connect a PVM-2130QM to a pc? Just a buy a shitty old graphics card with s-video out? What about usb graphics cards? Do they introduce any lag? I'm pretty sure I've seen some with s-video out.

>>999209
Graphics card with s-video or scart to vga adapter.

>>999079
you mean this right?

What's a fair price for a fully functioning 26" Trinitron TV with component input and a remote? Someone on CL is offering $50 which seems pretty outrageous, I was thinking $15 or less would be reasonable/standard but don't want to come off as lowballing.

>>999559
$15 is about the most I would pay at a thrift store but private party values are different. $50 for a 26" pvm would be reasonable but probably not for a Wega.

Is a CRT monitor good for emulation?

>>999585

Yes, if your emulator is good too.

>>999220
>>999209
/vr/ at it again

>>999585

Yeah. You can do 240p at 120hz

>>999209
Oh and I'd stay away from USB graphics cards unless you have USB 3.0 ports on your PC.

I doubt you're still here but I was reading through foolz and noticed somebody back in June posted about an American CRT with SCART in Pottstown. I live there and if you're lurking I'm really interested.

I don't use a CTR. I'm not a pleb.

So, which one do you prefer?

>>999759
Enjoy your artifacts

>>999737
That was me. It was the one and only US SCART TV that I know of, the RCA Dimensia. I almost went after it myself but it was just too damn far.

Let me see if I can get the contact info out of my history but the prognosis is grim. I think it might have been a Craigslist only temp email and the listing is long expired now.

>>999809
I'd prefer not to emulate.

>>999759
Go back to /v/. Don't ruin this board.

>>999737
Sorry I'm not finding it. Maybe try posting a want ad yoursrlf. It looks like the poster had listed it in December of 2012 also because someone on Facebook was discussing it.

>>1000107
Oh well. I appreciate either way. Never even knew a TV like that existed. I'll probably end up posting the want ad like you said. Hopefully it wasn't tossed out by now.

>>1000107
>>1000241
Big one of those not that far from here. Seller talks up its "authentic-looking hardwood case", it's clearly from the 80s.

The question is, if it's a 1987 model, does it have a comb filter that you can't turn off?

>>1000310
It probably won't have a comb filter at all. Most of us want it for native SCART and it definitely won't have one there.

>>1000338
Well, the 1987 model is also the line that began to integrate the SCART connector.

You don't seem to have a lot of experience with SCART televisions. GroovyMAME experts using more expensive SCART televisions find a ton of digital artifacts from the processing filters. Having SCART doesn't mean that they're not going to screw your signal up.

>>1000352
>>1000338
As you can see, the Bang & O model compared to the simpler Lowe television (both SCARTS) with proper GroovyMAME setup proves that the more expensive B&O has a filter destroying your pixels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67-zRVsHhjk

>>1000358
Another lesson for you: televisions are televisions, monitors are monitors. There's a reason one always cost more, and we're not talking about PC monitors.

>>1000358
the horror

>>1000352
I live in the US. The RCA Dimensia is the ONLY SCART TV and I don't have one.

>>999630
I'm stupid and at it again

dis shit don't stop

>>999647
Having the ports isn't enough, you need devices designed to take advantage of them.

This is why a lack of picture processing is as important as RGB inputs.

>>1000362
Part two of the lesson: figure it out. I may as well not post anything at all, you know.

>>1000380
Someone's upset that his advice to plug a fixed 720x480i S-video signal from the PC to the TV is the way to get perfect emulation fidelity on a CRT was made to look inadequate and foolish. Perhaps you were made to look and feel this way by extension?

>>1000397
Either way, what an idiot.

>>1000376
Why speak from a position of false authority and assert that the Dimensia has no comb filter when it's easily proven that it does?

1987 features

27"TV screen
Comb Filter(for better quality picture)
Parental Control
SAP Channel[7]
Automatic Light Sensor(measured light in room were TV was and adjusted picture and brightness automatically to match room brightness)[8]
Sleep Timer
Two-antenna inputs
On-screen Time Display

The picture of the SCART inputs is then captioned on Wikipedia by noting that these inputs appeared on the 1987 model. I still feel that this is not desirable, as backed up by the above pictures.

>>1000398
That's pretty much the point, isn't it? Why post useful information if it's going to be serially ignored.

>>1000407
This guy's right. Thus endeth the lesson bitches.

*mic drop*
*strut off the stage euphorically*

>>1000405
Indeed, a label of idiocy can be applied to anyone who denies the importance of either vertical or horizontal sync; also to anyone who clamors for RGB above all yet goes looking for the TV out on his video card when he wants to get into emulation.

>>1000414
tis true, my fedora of many colors should be enough for all to recognize the truth. Don't hate, appreciate.

I'll say nothing of TV encoders. This is an exercise for the reader. Just don't expect me to wait for the class to catch up.

>>1000420
Nothing should be said about TV encoders in this thread. Perhaps your amateur parody would be better appreciated at /tv/

>>1000431
No comedy is complete without the false authority of an adversary.

TV encoders are the cause of quite a few topics of interest in this thread. Mayhaps one should be studying a little bit more. Additional research should prove...interesting.

>>1000432
If you want to prove to everyone that you were wrong to be humiliated for suggesting their use to someone and initiating your massive impersonation samefag campaign, it would behoove you to speak of the facts that make these items relevant to emulation.

>>1000438
Until you start to recognize the illusions under which you have been operating and the assumptions that you've been making to compensate for unseen inadequacies to everyone's detriment, I find it beneath me to recognize any of your accusations.

Someone, mayhaps thine own self, mentioned one item of particularly delicious interest. Intriguing, and quite relevant to emulation. I'll leave it to the group to identify and ponder.

>>1000445
Google didn't turn up much?

what the fuck is this shit

>>1000451
*sigh*

you're at it again

>>1000452
The guy who told someone to hook his PC to his television using the S-video cable here >>999220
was mocked by an individual using the 15 name here >>999630

This caused the mocked individual to flip out and attempt some sort of smear campaign against an essentially anonymous poster.

>>1000467
more assumptions, more wasting of everyone's time

easy to confirm, hard to grasp, impossible to believe

>>1000000

Sure got /g/ in here

>>1000467
/vr/ just hates the concept of 15.7 Khz horizontal sync rates. It means they'll actually have to work on software and apply critical thinking in order to get perfect RGB signals out of their PCs and to their PVMs.

Seeing a personification of this concept manifest on the board, it is the natural compulsion to impersonate this individual in an attempt to make the rest of the CRT thread hate 15.7 Khz horizontal sync rates as much as he does.

He doesn't use a name, but you know him by his trademark posts -- black frame insertion, 120 Hz vertical sync, PC monitor master race, he cries. He is 31 Khz and he despises 15.7 Khz. He has taken the name 15.7 Khz for himself in order to hasten the decline of /vr/ and increase acclaim for his inferior CRT setup.

Can we get a mod in here?

>>1000482
You just might be speaking from a position of true authority on this matter, but I'll let the mystery linger.

Unlike this gentleman, who is clearly speaking from a position of false authority:
>>1000467

I've never seen someone get so upset as this guy apparently >>1000404 when he was told that he was speaking from a position of false authority.

This individual >>1000486 is now upset

These threads sure are getting autistic

>>1000503
>autistic

you are no better

>>1000498
Oh, the guy he was replying to, >>1000376 The >>1000404 was what sent him into rage mode. That and the comparison pictures proving that his claim >>1000338 that SCART televisions have no comb filter were "from a position of false authority" have sent a powerful /v/ troll down amongst you.

>>1000507
He just ordered a shipping container of 1980s RCA Dimensia TVs from Oregon. He was set to become a /vr/ millionaire. Hopes crushed by a simple comparison picture.

>>1000505

Sorry but this dickwaving over stupid bullshit like scan rates is autism, pure and simple

>>1000512
The issue is only about someone getting really mad and taking it out on someone who wasn't anonymous and therefore open to his rage.

Two things made him mad, nothing to do with scan rates:

1) being mocked for suggesting someone defile a PVM by hooking it to a PC using the video card's TV out

2) claiming that SCART televisions have no digital processing then being proven wrong

Neither of these things have anything to do with scan rate. He would have acted the same way if it did, though.

>>1000482
>black frame insertion, 120 Hz vertical sync, PC monitor

What's wrong with this setup?

>>1000518
Nothing in itself, it's just that people who commit to that sort of modern compromise tend to overcompensate and "hate on" people who seek out "retro" technology like older TVs and monitors. You see it a lot in these CRT threads, it's one of the only explanations for why he'd hate someone so much based on a scan-rate name.

>>1000523
Three types of /vr/ posters:

Conservatives: PVMs, editing monitors, 15 Khz rgb monitors, arcade monitors

Liberals: 120 Hz, PC monitor, black frame insertion

Futurists: refuse to play games until they own an OLED; constantly preach about how it will change the world

>>1000525

Does line doubled 480p fall under Liberals?

>>1000520
Down one road, you'll find mystery and false authority.

Down the other, more tangled path, you'll find wisdom, brought about by self-education.

I can hope for you, but I can't decide for you. Choose wisely. Don't just go at it again, and to thine own self always be true!

>>1000520
Just report him.

>>1000527
Windows can't line double so if it involves Linux then it involves SDL paging and about 3 frames of input lag. So more information is needed about what's doubling whose lines. If the point is to avoid input lag there may be better solutions.

>>1000532
Is your critique that I don't spoonfeed you information or something? There are only so many ways one can point people with RGB displays to arcadecontrols.com and try to explain that the information there is the only way to get perfect emulation in all ways.

When I get my RGB display I'll take pictures of the whole process, even making the cables. A full scratch build. How's that? I'll even put the name back on for you.

>>1000536

>Windows can't line double

wat

Then what is it doing when it outputs 640x480?

>>1000548 (You)
No.

You're at it for the fist time.

>>1000564
>You're at it for the fist time.

Responding with a threat?

>You have reached your report limit for the day.


OH BOY

IT WOULD BE GOOD TO HAVE SOME MODERATION IN HERE

eat shit moot you fucking cocksucking nigger

>>1000571
You can be at it for the palm time, I won't judge.

>>1000554
I think it's just outputting a 640 x 480 signal at 31 Khz horizontal and whatever horizontal you set it at. 60 or up. That's why RetroArch's options only go down to 640x480 at the minimum for your video window.

>>1000523

For general PC emulation use, a CRT monitor is your best bet because it doesn't require special drivers, and you can do the 240p120hz thing to get authentic looking output.

Only reason you should bother trying to output 15khz from a PC is if you have a PVM you want to connect to your PC or you're building an arcade cabinet with a 15khz CRT display.

There's no reason to hate on either approach though.

>>1000585

I've gotten RetroArch on Windows to output everything from 1280x960 to 3840x240 to 256x224.

>>1000593
I think that reflects a worldview that is inherently narrow. One can have anything from the above mentioned RCA Dimensia, to a Mitsubishi commercial monitor television and giant size, to a Commodore 1084 clone knocked off by Hitachi, to a modern Sony flat tube television and a Crescendo transcoder, to an Apple IIGS monitor and get out of it an amount of joy exponentially related to the effort one puts in to it.

A shooting game fan will set the monitor up in his living room. Maybe he's heard good things about the PVM-1910 because of its handles and easy rotateability. He will set it up in the living room, connected to arcade controls of some sort -- perhaps even a Neo Geo joypad.

You play how you want to, in a living room or standing up at a cabinet. I'm planning to put a 13" PVM in the bathroom. Cat-5 cable can carry control inputs and RGB signals flawlessly for up to 50 feet.

I will build several small PCs based on Radeon HD 4xxx cards. They will run Windows XP and the cards will be driven by CRT_Emudriver. The PCs will be capable of delivering hundreds of custom resolutions to the monitors at their exact framerates, obviating the need for vsyncing or hard syncing. As a result, with GroovyUME input lag will match that of a console or arcade PCB.

All systems will be easily emulated. Automatic resolution switching will be in place for all arcade games and most computers and consoles; some consoles will require manual switching in order to take advantage of other emulators like bsnes. All ROMs will be accessed from a central location via samba shares.

Any tips on waterproofing a 13" PVM for use in the bathroom?

>>1000609
But I'm willing to bet that you didn't get Windows to line double that 256x224 resolution after RetroArch sent it for output.

>>1000392
Left image is composite SCART, right is RGB SCART. It would be totally retarded to ruin RGB through a comb filter.

Now whether the SCART on an RCA Dimensia has true RGB is currently an unknown.

>>1000619

If I wanted to do that, I'd do 512x448 instead.

>>1000620
Wow, that's really not true and you know it isn't. If you watched the linked-to video you'd know that's through VGA-to-SCART cable hooked up to a PC running GroovyMAME.

>>1000615

Umm what about people who want to use the same CRT monitor for retro gaming emulation and modern PC games?

>>1000639
I imagine people with a level of dedication to CRTs such that they maintain one for their PC would still want a gaming space for another CRT, as has always been. I never played a console on a computer monitor, I wasn't one of those Commodore people I guess.

>>1000615
>Any tips on waterproofing a 13" PVM for use in the bathroom?
Maybe put the PVM in a big sealed cubic container where one side is made of glass.
But the condensation on the glass could hinder the view or the PVM could overheat.

>>1000654
Ducted intakes and outtakes with an inline duct fan solves that.

>>1000654
Anyone know what sort of plastic they use to cover arcade monitors in cabinets? I saw this Latino gentleman try to shatter the screen in MK1 once with the edge of a quarter, it didn't even blink.