/vr/ - Retro Games

>>9734508
on that note, remember when Captain Planet seemed just weird and fixated and not an emanation of a rich old fart's political agenda? innocence was nice to have back then, wasn't it.

>>9734508
It was the hottest subject at the time.
Various strategy games were dedicated to it as-well. FF7 is also a good example of that tendency.
After 9/11 the discourse shifted towards terrorism, and Sonic happened to be one of the franchises that got affected by it the most (reaching its ultimate form in that infamous Shadow game). FPS games have been greatly affected by this, and you could see it being echoed even in games aimed at children such Paper Mario TTYD.
Games were always kinda political, but because of their nature (of being first and foremost games), and the obvious limitations older hardware had, devs didn't really went hard on shoving their political beliefs into the audience.

Can we just admit that Sonic wank is retarded?
>a bunch of 3 guys make a game about running through a dreamland
>also the character is a hedgehog because they can curl into balls and it's a unique gimmick
>also there are goofy enemies, because it's a game, and games have to have enemies

>uhhhhhhh this was actually a deep metaphor about the humanitarian ethical struggles of the industrial era or something

Why do people have to justify things they like with this type of nonsense?

>>9734569
It's not about justification, you can't deny the fact that Sonic was fighting against industrialization even though the hedgehog himself or even the devs most likely never realised that

>>9734569
>>9734582
I'm pretty sure the devs were aware, they just did it subtly.
CD is less subtle, but also more nuanced by showing that technology has the potential to aid the environment as much as hurt it. I suppose Tails also embodies this concept to a lesser extent.

>>9734508
Sonic was a punk fighting against industrial society and this was successfully carried over into the 3D games where the UN is depicted as a shady antichrist. Sonic is an allegory for Jesus, one of my friends did a presentation on this. I'll try to get a hold of the PowerPoint when I wake up

>>9734569
Bruh, If something is an allusion on something else, it doesn't necessarily means that it is a deep or a highly intellectual one.

>>9734672
I don't know if your friend is based or just a schizo, but I want to see those powerpoints. So post them NOW before you go to sleep, you'll forget about it.

>>9734569
>deep metaphor
it's not even metaphorical, dipshit. That's like saying captain planet is a metaphor. You're a deeply stupid person.

>>9734672
>>9734737
read Savitri Devi's The Impeachment of Man and you'll truly understand it

>>9734508
Sheeet, I haven't seen this image for about 20 years, it was the boxart when I bough the 3D Blast (probably fake?) I know because I learned to draw exactly this sonic, thanks for the memories

>>9734569
dumbest post so far

>>9734672
I remember seeing a parody video (from around 2017) that was called something along the lines of "Youtube video essay" which made this exact point.
The most memorable quote from that video was "Mario is pizzashit and Sonic is epic".
Can't find it though, so instead, I'll post this masterpiece by Alt Hype:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UtWbfT6Vpg
A satire that was ahead of time.

Sonic has always been that, up until SA2. What do you think Gamma's and Shadow's stories are about?

>>9734569
I miss when people tried to explain the nonsensical things in the games with silly headcannons, like Sonic being a robot in disguise or Tails being a mutant from the Chemical Plant Zone.

>>9734508
The later games still do this, just less overtly because it became completely toothless.

>>9734508
I miss when Sonic was an innocent cartoon character with an subtle edge of mysteriousness. How did Sonic become such an autistic cringe soulless corporate cash in. Every game after Adventure has been a janky broken mess. Sonic should have been treated like a classic cartoon character like mickey mouse or bugs bunny. But Sega turned him into an edgy soulless lanky green-eyed blue-armed FREAK. WTF happened? What was sega thinking?

>>9734508
Do you think Greta is a furry who became a eco chud because of Sonic? I choose to believe it.

>>9735346
I just spent 5 minutes silently contemplating how retarded that sounds, but I must admit it's believable.

>>9735394
>Legal protections for natural resources so they don't get fucked up is bad
Are you retarded?

>>9734508
When I was a kid I read a sonic comic about him smashing robots and freeing the birds/small animals inside, it was peak comfy artwork
But there was this page where his mum INSISTS he has a big pile of flapjacks first

>>9735394
Stuff like this is just framed to look weird by people who don't want to be regulated.

Sega should lean back into the Sonic Kaczynski theme

It would be a big controversy if a Sonic game was environmentalist nowadays. It would sell worse as a result, I think

>>9737376
I don't think it'd be controversial. Even Sonic Forces leaned into it in places (Green Hill being filled with sand due to Eggman industries, Sonic's speech at the end has shades of it, etc).
It's just that there's no way modern Sonic Team is capable of pulling off a story like that without it being laughable.

>>9737376
no way, all you need to do is show animals fleeing while robots bulldoze the forest to make room for eggman buildings. you don't need to use words. it would be refreshingly simple compared to most sonic plots

>>9734523
>Games were always political
I am growing to strongly resent this line of thinking. It’s as if to say “everything you ever loved and enjoyed in an innocent way, the things that made you feel lighter: those were actually all cynical if you look at them from the “correct”, modern, Media Literate(tm) perspective.”
Well no. Some things genuinely ARE more innocent and lighthearted. And there are malicious people out there who want you to believe “everything is political”, because they want you talking about *their* politics: either falling in line with their views or taking a preconstructed side against them in a false debate which gives them political power.
The emotion of Sonic wanting to save his animal friends is a simple, childlike one, that everyone of any age can understand and appreciate. It’s one of those feelings that you feel in the core of your body, rather than your head.
To apply political analysis to this is to utterly miss the point.
Sonic saves animals from the evil Dr. Robotnik because that feels right for him to do.

This post is nothing against you, anon, personally, just this line of thinking I’ve been encountering lately.

>>9734569
>Why do people have to justify things they like with this type of nonsense?
Insecurity over being 18 plus years old and still enjoying a franchise for children and not having the balls to admit they enjoy for it is, so they make some bullshit literary excuse for why it's "deep". Can be seen with many other franchises as well, Nintendo ones especially.

In Sonic's case, devs were just thinking
>hmmmm, our bad guy needs a motive I know let's have him mechanize everything because mad science
>good idea, and the hero will be an animal that stops that mechanization and preserves nature
>alright back to tweaking the levels so I can maybe get a one hour nap in before another 36 hour shift and these Americans can leave us alone
>insecure retards who overthink everything: WOOAAAH ITS CLEARLY SAYING THIS THING ABOUT THIS TOPIC ITS SOO SMART AND THEREFOR I AM SMART ADULT FOR NOTICING

>>9734523
>Games were always kinda political
>didn't really went hard on
Learn to English, then go the fuck back to retardera.

>>9737404
>back to retardera.
Besides parroting the false “everything is political” meme, it was a decent post. What anon is saying is right.

>>9737393
but preserving nature is environmentalism anon

Sonic adventure 2 was the peak of story, soundtrack, and aesthetic

>>9737419
>peak of sonic story
lol ok
>soundtrack, and aesthetic
no

>>9737412
No.
“environmentalism” is a political word applied to an apolitical, non-verbal reality.

>>9737392
>>9734523

There was always some form of what we would look back on now as propaganda, but it was more innocuous, at least on the surface.
>retro-games were anti-animal cruelty and anti pollution
Fine and dandy. Which of us would want to be cruel to animals, or pollute?
>post-retro, classic games were anti-terrorism
Fine and dandy, whom among us would support terrorism?

Issue now is that current games are anti-sex, and anti-white. That is frightening.
Sex is natural, and hating someone for the way they are born is wrong. At least that's what we were taught for a very long time. Now suddenly that's not the case, so shut up and go with it. Stop asking questions. Get mad at anybody that does.

I think that's why there's a massive blow-back against "politics in video games" and it's not because they suddenly occurred. It's because they've become so glaringly obvious, and downright scary that people are beginning to lash out against it.

All "politics" do not equal all "politics"
It's not equal, and it's not relative. Some ideas are simply wrong, and evil. And it's never OK to agree with them, no matter how many people in charge say it is. Why would I want to hate someone for being a different race than me? I wouldn't want to do this any more than I'd want them to do it to me, so why is it so one-sided? Why are we so anti-sex and anti-sexuality, unless it's homosexuality? If '-phobia' is wrong one way, it's wrong both ways.

Eye for an eye is not wrong, it's the most correct moral viewpoint ever. Simply put; if you want to keep both of your eyes, stay away from both of mine. We either are both allowed to exist, or none of us are. And if some are allowed to pick and choose, then we all are.

I come here to get away from these arguments for a little while. Sorry for putting this here, but I feel like it should be said. We're going insane, or our culture is. Either way; something isn't right anymore.

>>9737463
>I come here to get away from these arguments for a little while.
>Sorry for putting this here
You should be.
Anon, that's what I was trying to point to with this post >>9737392
It is possible for people to exist without dragging everything down to the level of politics, which is soft warfare. Right now, with your post, you are trying to win a propaganda war over me and other anons. I might not even disagree with you; but notice the fact that you're doing it. We can live our lives differently than this.
You think certain modern games are propaganda you don't like? Play other games then.
Play and talk about games you do actually like. Be a propagandist yourself: promote what you like.
This takes a lot of skill, frankly, and it does demand that you have your wits about you: but as soon as you notice a modern game or its fanbase pulling you towards a conversation that's annoying or maybe even malicious, realize that it's best just to focus on stuff that feels right to you instead.

>>9737429
i like it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we8MYuZ6fEQ&ab_channel=DeoxysPrime

>>9737412
environmentalists are mentally ill

>>9737527
I disagree completely.
Shutting up solves nothing. As much as it sucks, if things are bad, then discussion must occur. Nothing was ever fixed by buying your head in the sand.

>>9737376
Only because modern media companies have no concept of nuance which may be intentional as consoomers seem to get dumber over time.

>>9737527
Sticking your head in the sand doesnt help anything. By your reasoning, if you don’t like his post you should find another thread or go read a book.

>>9737748
>>9737775
No.
You need to promote things you do like. Reframe the conversation to one you actually like having.
Whining on 4chan about how the media is "anti-white" accomplishes very little. Are you mad about demographics changing? Go out and get a partner of your preferred race and change the demographics yourself: if you allow the media, or twitter, or 4chan, to control how you feel and what you talk about you're an absolute loser.
Turning your attention away from what you want to avoid, AND towards what is good to you, both observing and creating it, is a crucial skill to develop if you want to overcome being manipulated.

>>9737854
It's not my fault demographics are changing. It's not my fault white people are hated. I have no power to change either.
No, I will not stop noticing that things are rough, nor will I stop pointing it out.

>>9737856
>"instead of doing anything worthwhile, making myself into an interesting person, creating anything worthwhile, or changing how I live in order to change my world into one that is better to me, I will cry like a bitch on an anonymous public forum about how I am an oppressed minority"

>>9737867
What is Straw Man?

>>9737854
If you dont like this thread make one you do like instead of responding. Do something positive instead of whining about replies on 4chan like a loser.

>>9737881
I like this conversation because you people are easy to manipulate.
>>9737880
>"waaaah the internet is oppressing me"

>>9737886
>>9737867
I'm sorry Anon. I would like to formally apologize. I realize now what I have done and it was wrong. I engaged in a bad vibe, when all you wanted to do was play with your toys and watch your media.
My bad. I forgot how lucky it is, and how grateful I should be for the bread and circuses that are available to me. :)

>>9737881
His whining is okay, my whining is bad.
Bad things don't exist until they affect him personally.

Born to Consume
World is a Fine.
He is Low Empathy Man.
3,084,734 sympathies unfelt.

>>9737906
Its whats known as “hypocrisy”. Its also pretty entertaining to watch you get upset while trying to convince everyone how calm and level headed you are.

>>9737927
What is Projection?

This thread is kind of going of the rails so I'll ask
If Sonic never got modernized, how do you think the franchise could have gotten ? Any game ideas you wished happened ?

>>9738213
when did sonic become modernized?

>>9738262
Adventure

>>9738262
I mean, if it never had the aesthetic and style switch it had since SA2.
>>9738297
Although SA1 had the whole design change, it still felt like a continuation to the classic games.

>>9734508

Corporations realized teaching kids to reject consumerism and consumption ended up hurting their profits.

>>9737419
For me it's Sonic 2. Before the final battle with Robotnik on the Death Egg he has to fight Uncle Chuck (Sonic's uncle who was turned into a robot). Sonic makes it off the egg, but Chuck was never seen again. It was the Empire Strikes Back of the Sonic Trilogy.

>>9738213
It would have probably ended up being a small curiosity from the 90s, like Ristar and Earthworm Jim. SEGA would come up with something else to highlight the Dreamcast. Sonic Mania would've still happened whether it would be official or not. All considered, maybe it would've been a better world that way.

I think the GBA games in that setting would've been more interesting. I wish there were more games where old SEGA characters like Ristar and Alex were in the spotlight.

>>9735319
he isn't edgy now. you just can't project muh fag mickey mouse headcanon onto him anymore. he was at his edgiest in muh cd with all his frowny stoicness. if you painted him black with red stripes sonic cd would suddenly be a bad game.
>muh autism
>boo hoo his eyes are colored

>>9738358
sonic games didn't really do that...overtly. casino night zone is a happy bright magical place full of opulence and glamour where the house can instantly take all your rings in one swoop. just keep gambling those rings sonic!

>>9734737
Sorry, I forgot. I've sent a message, in the meantime I just have a photo of the first slide

Sonic was the best way to get ppl interested in climate change. Not a single word... Just showing green hills turn into that oil hell was enough

Sonic was truly a special game

>>9738213
>>9738297
don't tell me you fell for the sonic generations retcon AGAIN, knucklehead.

me? what about your green eyes?

I'm the OP of that post (9734523), and I see that most people misunderstand my intentions.
No, I did not mean to say that "everything is political", however some media was inherently under the influence of what is the hottest provocative subject of the time.
>>9737463
The pollution example is good, however I'd argue that there were always people who believed that terrorist actions are justified in certain context. Remember CoD's "No Russian" controversy?
Games were gradually moving from a fully interactive format to a story-oriented structure, but the technology still wasn't there until the late 90s, when most story-oriented games were still told in the rather formulaic RPG format.
Gradually both because of audience demand and developer desire, stories were incorporated into every possible game genre, so nowadays most games are "movie games" to a degree.
Mother 3 can have its anti-capitalist, pro-traditionalist agenda, but it's an RPG only a certain audience will engage with. Now it's an industry standard for most games to have "RPG-length" stories.
And pushing an "anti-white" agenda for example would seem very out of place in the early 90s, because it was yet to become popular with the global media, and most of the games fixating on pollution were created in the pre-cinematic era.

>>9734512
the jews make some pretty soulful entertainment, I'll give em that

>>9738368
Kek

>>9738812
My friend will look for the PPT later today, but for now I am Australian and will once again sleep...

>>9740060
Anon you better fucking deliver

>>9741015
>>9740060
my friend will have access to the PC this weekend. Hold on a little longer, yeeeaaaayeeeeeeah
Hold on a little tighter, oooooooWOAAAAAAAH

>>9734569
based
sonicfags destroyed

>>9737568
That's right, eat the microplastics, drink the PFAS breathe the smog!

>>9734795
>Savitri Devi
Nay.

>>9742514
Yes anon, take the vaccine! Bask in the 5G! Consume the onions!

Sonic is about the struggle between Christian morality and Financialism. Sonic himself is a native inhabitant of a woodland utopia being invaded by cold , mathematic, scientific capitalism, (embodied by a caricature of the imperialist Teddy Roosevelt). Sonic restores Mobius to nature, and destroys the man-made hell scape created by Eggman. He fights for the common creature (flickies) and defends them against an encroaching human elitism that seeks to enslave and eventually eliminate nature.

>>9738213
I wish Adventure was made without the forced RPG/modernization aspects and just focused on being a 3D version of a Genesis Sonic game. On that same note, I’d like to have seen concepts from CD or even Chaotix make a return in 3D. Would be cool to have time travel within adventure style stages or multiplayer with a large roster of cool characters.

>>9744062
No lies

>>9734508

dont complian, sonic is now better than ever

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0bmz6JHz9M

>>9743227
the vaccine and 5g aren't why you feel like a woman nor relevant to the topic at hand

>>9744073
the only rpg part i can think of in the final game are the hub worlds and those are fun with sa1's physics.

I love oil ocean zone and wish it was real

>>9744810
Why do people hate SA1's hubs? They're so comfy, and like you said you can mess around with the physics

>>9744810
There’s also hunting for keys and upgrades, which really adds nothing to the game besides padding. The hub worlds are mostly inoffensive on repeat playthroughs, when you already know where everything is, but I would never want to go searching for keys in mystic jungle for the first time again. SA2’s straightforward stage progression was a welcome change.

>>9734508
No toes

>>9746649
Keys and new tools to access new areas is literally an Adventure genre trope, you're probably one of those fucking retards who argues the Zelda games are RPGs.

>>9734569
It's because they're japanese. gfy

Everything IS political, retards. However, you don't have to be autistic about it. Ultimately all you're really saying is I don't wanna talk politics, which is fair, these subhumans leading the conversation don't deserve oxygen.

>>9747804
What are the politics behind Sonic's inclination towards chili dogs?

>>9747814
I will not talk about a serious topic with a disingenuous faggot like you

>>9747824
You didn't answer the question, presumably because you dislike your own potential answer.

>>9744073
>concepts from Chaotix in 3D
Literally Sonic Heroes.

>>9737392
There's something to be said with how (if you progress the levels in the original intended order) Sonic goes from pure nature in the form of Green Hill until you see the zones gradually get influenced by man until you reach the industrial hellscape that is Scrap Brain

>>9738358

This. You can't make a profit if people stop buying shit. That's why big businesses no longer preach Captain Planet style "saving the planet begins with you" shit.

>>9746649
what the fuck? the windy hill key is just right in front of where you fight the egg hornet and it literally shows you where the icecap one drops in station square. they didn't even count as puzzles to four year old me.

>>9747967
Oh they still preach environmentalism, it's just in the form of symbolic platitudes with no actual productivity or desire to see things happen

>>9747950
Advance 3 had a partner thing too, surprisingly fleshed out too with lots of different special moves you get from the various combinations

>>9747824
Where is the answer

>>9748056
I’m referring specifically to the one in Knuckles story. The others are time wasters at best

>>9747950
The engine ruined it. The idea was good

>>9746715
SA1’s devs referred to them as “RPG elements”, I didn’t introduce that term to the discussion. Regardless of your semantic newfaggotry, those aspects don’t belong in the game.

>>9734508
Nowadays he'd be called woke for doing that.

>>9751776
He’d be called racist for beating up Knuckles

>>9736668
>Satan sayz

>>9751770
>those aspects don’t belong in the game
I liked them

>>9738812
Friend has been tending to a knee injury, not sure when I can get the file

>>9737386
>there's no way modern Sonic Team is capable of pulling off a story like that without it being laughable
I want them to go full balls to the walls 2000's crackhead retardation with the next script

>>9734663
How did you extrapolate that out of the Good Future stages? They just look fancy/pretty and devoid of Robotnik's influence and rule. There's no indication tech is now helping nature, the art is too abstract to arrive at that conclusion. It's only called "Good" Future because Robotnik is out of the picture. Society on Mobius still has the capacity to fuck up the planet with unchecked ambitions.

>>9754608
there's no indication except an ocean of oil's worth
>Mobius
ofc the guy ackshually-ing about sonic canon is talking about satam