/vr/ - Retro Games

>>9713392
they look so cool, but after playing pinball for 15 minutes you quickly realize its a terrible game.

turn based RPGs.
they seem so rich in lore and story, and an open world always appeals.
but that excel tier grindy combat, I cant cope with it. its like using Microsoft Office

>>9713405
a few years ago I visited the Budapest Pinball Museum - basically just a whole bunch of pinball machines on freeplay. I spent a long time there trying to convince myself I'm having fun, but it was impossible.

now that I think about it, it really was more like walking through a museum than visiting in an arcade. the real enjoyment was from the attention to detail on everything and seeing all these faithful homages to old nostalgic franchises.

>>9713436
Ya well there's no gey porn or pedo anime there. So probably not for you

Faget

JRPGs. Everything about them except for actually playing them is cool.
Also fighting games. I just don't have the patience. I don't want to have to literally spend days or weeks learning to control all of the characters I want to play as, just in order to play competently at a beginner level. You pretty much have to have been into these since you were a kid, or you don't get to play them.

Strategy games, especially RTS games. Just do not have the patience for them. It's pretty much the one genre that looks cool to me but I really don't enjoy playing. Somehow I like AoE 2, but that's it.

I fucking love pinball though. The Budapest Pinball Museum sounds like the coolest shit ever to me.

first person shooters. one of the most normie-friendly genres but I stopped enjoying them by the time Quake 1 came out

pinball machines make a great ornament but not something you actually play

>>9713392
Pinball's fun, but it's hard to justify spending thousands of dollars on one. It's always a treat being able to pop quarters into one every now and then, or occasionally you'll run across the freeplay ones at an arcade somewhere.

Just download one of those modern pinball sims, and start hammering away at a table you like. Pinball's fun, when it isn't charging you by the ball.

>>9713495
It's this, really. The price is simply too high for most people for pinball to be much more than an occasional curiosity.

>>9713405
>after 15 minutes the adhd low skill zoomie gave up
Many such cases

Pinball fucking rules. I already look at a computer eight hours a day for work, it can be hard to want to play games on one after. But it has a steep learning curve.

>>9713405
>>9713392
>>9713436
> filtered by pinball
how the fuck does this embarrassment of a board fail so badly day after day? truly remarkable. i'm most certain if it had a picture of mario painted on the side you abject failures would post threads about it every day.

Is there a good VR pinball sim yet? I figure that'll be the thing that finally convinces me to invest in VR.

>>9713640
Yeah, imagine if that existed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewZxutyE3L4

Fucking fake pinball fan you are, m8

>>9713642
there's virtual pinball that uses actual ROMs from real machines with 3d tables and pretty faithful artwork and physics, and there's a bunch of simulators on steam, such as pinball fx.

>>9713647
Is that VR integrated?

>>9713392
Try Timeshock, one of the best original digital pinball tables.

>>9713646
> blurry ass fucking shit from a retarded american
fuck off, thanks.
>>9713646
>Fucking fake pinball fan you are, m8
your opinion is worthless, much like this youtuber's content.

>>9713651
i am unsure.

>>9713657
>actual seething because you got called out for not knowing about Mario pinball
love to see it.

>>9713654
that looks great.

>>9713640
It's because it's too expensive to own. A pinball machine like $7K to $10K. The average person can't afford that.

>>9713662
everyone knows about it. i doubt you knew it existed until you searched for it on google. when is the livestream of your suicide planned for, dunning kruger? post links when you can.

>>9713661
It is great, there was remake a few years back which is the same game but with a higher resolution.

>>9713671
>I knew about it, even though I didn't know about it

>>9713667
you don't have to own one. it's out of reach for many people. plenty of places still exist where you can go play and get good.

>>9713682
> i only knew about because i searched google
post links to the livestream when you can.

>>9713679
>It is great, there was remake a few years back which is the same game but with a higher resolution.
will have to hunt that down. thanks, anon.

>>9713686
I knew about it before. You didn't, otherwise you wouldn't have thought what you said was any kind of gotcha. Keep being mad and not knowing about pinball. I will not kill myself.

>>9713686
>you don't have to own one. it's out of reach for many people. plenty of places still exist where you can go play and get good.

You are missing my point. It's too expensive for most people to own. That's why it filters people. Pinball is like an acquired taste. You need to play it often enough to gradually learn to love it. That's not gonna happen with it being so expensive and only being available in very specific retro arcades.

>it's yet another dogshit Jersey Jack table that's completely unplayable unless you have every single rule and shot memorized while taking the most obnoxious approach to whatever theme it has

>>9713704
this is cope. Bemani arcade machines are too expensive for most people to play, they're still very popular nowadays. pinball is not, despite pinball machines (still) being much more ubiquitous.

just because something is acquired taste doesn't mean you're likely to start liking said thing after initially disliking it. for things like coffee and alcohol? yeah. pinball? no.

>>9713817
Bemani has alternatives to play at home. Pinball does not. Unless you count digital pinball.

>>9713640
In order to really be good at pinball you have to manhandle the machine, which makes the owners justifiably angry. So most of the time you're playing a bit and then watching your ball drop right between the paddles with nothing you can do about it unless you want to get yelled at. So people end up just not getting into it.

I think there are probably some people who don't enjoy pinball but would enjoy it if they took the time to learn some basic ball control and aiming skills.

>>9714059
I can only speak for myself, but in my case the vast majority of operators are fine with nudging. I once heard a guy get politely reprimanded by an operator for a pretty intense shake save, but other than that, they mostly understand that it's part of the game.
Also: nudging is important but not that important. You can get pretty good scores just with flipper skills and aiming.

Foo Fighters pinball:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdUOl1aVCzo

Scooby Doo pinball
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgJ_cMakebY

>>9714371

>they mostly understand that it's part of the game.
>You can get pretty good scores just with flipper skills and aiming.
I only ever focused on flipper skills and aiming. I never did nudging and didn't even know it was a thing until muxh later.

I mean sure... I thought hitting the machine could save a ball, but I never did it because I thought it was disrespectful. Plus a lot of these pinball machines are old and the companies that made them are long gone. When I found out how much the pinball community does nudging I just felt annoyance.

>>9713657
>aging boomer lashing out at a changing world
always entertaining

>>9713392
Try some of the real classics. Does George Gomez ring a bell?

T2 pinball. So many memories! One of my favourite. I liked its simplicity!

>>9714371

Operators can modify the tilt bob to punish nudging if they really want to, but it's disrespectful to players. I've been burned visiting a couple pinball bars in other cities to find out the tables are all expensive and rigged up tight enough to squeeze a penny into copper wire.

>>9714693
>disrespectful to players
Bro what? You are shaking a machine that costs thousands of dollars. it's disrespectful to the owner. Just play normally without nudging

>>9713470
Las Vegas has the Pinball Hall of Fame which is very similar, except the machines aren’t on freeplay (but admission is free). And Osaka has the Silver Ball Planet, a smaller place but a pure arcade with lots of old and modern pinball, all maintained (and again, not freeplay). I’ve been to both and they’re great, never heard of Budapest’s but would love to go if I ever do get to visit the city.

>>9713642
VirtualPinball in VR is pretty fucking sick. I used to frequent a local pinball arcade quite a bit before I moved to another city, never could get into pinball emulators afterwards but playing VR pinball just felt right. Highly recommended !

>>9713392

Pinball and arcade collector here. You missed out on getting these at "reasonable" prices by a few years. Pandemic made even the most basic stuff that was $1000 now somehow end up being $4000+. I loved getting project machines and reworking them, just because you could get some great stuff for cheap and bring it back to life, but now it's just stupid prices across the board. Plus, that's lead to new machines going from $5k to $10k in a few years for no reason.

Do what some people have done, just buy and build yourself a virtual machine with all the bells and whistles. Not far from the real thing, and you won't lose your mind repairing them.

>>9714734

Watch a pro tournament, people are coming close to turning them over with how hard and how often they nudge. It's a legit strategy for keeping the ball on the playfield, and rarely is the reason something breaks. Doesn't stop me from wanting to hit people with a stick when they look like they're about to fling the machine into the wall every 2-3 seconds.

>>9714059
They need to play better

>>9714796

As much as I hate how people beat on the machines, there's no way to guarantee the trajectory of the ball once it's bounced off something. Nudges aren't meant for hitting targets, they're meant to save your ass when the ball is heading right down the middle or on the outside lanes where you can't stop it any other way.

>>9714059
Has there ever been a machine that let you tilt the entire board? Like, there are those skill games where you try and get a ball into a hole by tilting the entire playfield, it seems like something like that would be perfect match for pinball if you tweaked it for the right amount of nudge, without being able to fully control the direction of the ball and avoiding literal physical movement of the entire machine.

>>9714809

Not to my knowledge but I would not want that at all. Too many parts under those boards that would risk hitting things or coming loose from the impacts of the tilt. There may be a game that has a method I'm not thinking of but never anything with the entire playfield.

>>9714813
Raised machine on a cushioned surface where you can move entire machine, but its not slamming back down on the ground. Like imagine playing pinball in a bounce house or the machine on a giant bean bag chair.

>>9713482
Quake 3 was good.

>>9713510
Don't any of youse play pinball at the pub while waiting for your food? I love learning pinball and light guns this way. Learnt to 1cc light gun games this way.

>>9713704
This. Back in the day every kid had all their favorite pinball machines at home. Usually spares of the more troublesome ones for when they broke down. When they were new they cost bout tree fiddy and were only sold for home use.

>>9714059
>In order to really be good at pinball you have to be really bad at pinball
The literal state

>>9713704
They retain their value though. If you buy a table and after 3 years you decide you want to get rid of it you can get 100% of your money back as long as you've kept basic maintenance on it and not wrecked the thing.

>>9713704

It's become far worse lately. You used to be able to pick up a relatively decent condition game that had a recognizable theme for around $2000. Pandemic pricing hit and suddenly those machines were close to $5000. Even the project cabs that need a lot of work are outpacing what a fully shopped version of the same table cost back in 2019. Go to any arcade show and take a shot every time someone talks about being priced out of the hobby, you'll be shitfaced in an hour.

>>9714861

Yes and no. Kind of. It's hard to say because the last 3 years had that happen due to pandemic pricing, but there's no guarantee. A lot of people are clearing out their collections just because prices are insane, and don't seem to be ready to jump back in. You may be able to get most of your investment back but prices have leveled over the last year, even going down a little bit. The time to buy a table for value/investment was 2020, not 2023.

If a recession happens, I could easily see pinball machine prices collapsing.

>>9714845
There are no “pubs”, only bars with darts or pool tables if you’re lucky, most bars don’t have any other entertainment than tvs one cannot hear because music is blasting.

i really dont know how you cant enjoy pinball. i think they feel very satisfying to play. it also depends if you are playing one thats had good upkeep. and some machines have completely obnoxious magnets that really hurt it. but overall pinball is something that i think just about anyone could enjoy.

>>9714975
Everywhere I have lived in the southern hemisphere has pubs. Are you from the middle east?

>>9713392
FPS

>>9713667
First of all, you can just go to any pub/arcade/mall/whatever that has pinballs to play a few matches. Secondly, pinball games in video game format exist too. And finally, you can make/buy pinball "controller" for your PC/tablet/phone/whatever to emulate the physical pinball feeling.

>>9714371
I'm not an expert pinball player but I still love pinball games, both in physical and video game versions.

>>9713392
Sports.
I can sorta understand football Américain, but baseball is a whole other thing.

I don't find actual baseball games interesting unless I watch them in person.

>>9714975
I kinda wish I was around when organs and pianos were the only music in bars.
Now so few have them.
Actually got thrown out of a club for playing theirs.

>>9715129

When a bar has a piano and doesn't let people play it, that bar deserves to fail. I'd rather risk 5 bad players to every 1 guy that puts on a great show than tell all 6 they can'tTMWA0 play.

>>9715129
>Actually got thrown out of a club for playing theirs
Why they have a piano then in the first place? They could at least put a warning label or something in front of the piano.

>>9715086
They don't give you a participation trophy if you lose all your balls in 30 seconds. Many don't even give you a pity ball when you suck that bad. If you can remember 9001 years ago when you played your first game you likely shot your first ball and it went straight down the middle. If so you probably said "that's bullshit. I better do it different next time" Today's children just have a meltdown and need to curl up in a ballpit with their emotional support animal.
Even the flashing arrows that literally tell you where to go like in a bing bing wahoo game are useless, because it requires dozens of minutes of practice to gain the skills necessary to direct the balls to that location. Do you even know how many tiktoks you could watch in that amount of time? Any game that any idiot can't begin and instantly start winning is completely unenjoyable to modern children.

>>9715247
Cry harder old faggot

>>9715115
Any suggestions on some good pc controls? Have a bunch of pinball games i want to replay, but only know about some of the old controllers from the 90s designed for pinball games.

>>9715125
This for me. Its the rules that filter me and they feel like fighting games or something. Like id probably play them if they offered a tutorial mode explaining how plays in football games worked or the nuances of club picking in golf games or just the basic terms used. I guess they expected those playing to know how the real sports work and terminology, which i do not.

>>9715343

Either build a kit (easy to do, just get a USB arcade controller and make a faux control box) or just use your keyboard. Look into Future Pinball, Visual Pinball X, and PinballFX. Each has their ups and downs but a combo of all 3 gives you tons of options including some amazing custom tables.

>>9714848
The hell are you talking about? Expert pinball players dance with the machine as much as they're tapping the paddles.

>>9715125
Kinda agree. I have zero interest in sports sims, but I like arcade sports games despite not being interested in sports at all.

>>9715417
>The hell are you talking about? Expert pinball players dance with the machine as much as they're tapping the paddles.
Is that anything like how you try to dance around your bullshit with that cope? Just embarrassing. I have no doubt you need to fly into a tard rage and manhandle any game you suck at. But that doesn't make you an expert. Just an angry little sperg.

>>9713679
RTX ON

>>9715343
I just use the Pokken Switch controller mapped to VPX with AntiMicro. It's great and there are thousands of tables to download and play. I assigned the flippers to L and R buttons, tilt to the d-pad and the rest of controlls to the other buttons

>>9716341
>It's great and there are thousands of tables to download and play
Where, like that Evira table isn't on vpforums.

Been playing pinball for a few years now, recently struck a deal on a Simpsons Pinball Party for significantly less than the wild amount people want on Pinside for it. If you’re looking to get into the hobby, there’s a map that tells you exactly which machines are in your area and you’ll probably find there’s a regular group that plays there, especially if they’ve got 5+ machines. Competitive players can be a quirky bunch but overall (in my city, at least) it’s a nice social community; also a great way to get a good deal on a home machine if you ever want one, it’s how I got mine.

>>9713392
Apple II / Commodore 64 / Amiga / NEC PC / early DOS games.

They look pretty interesting for me and they usually have amazing visuals, but then I remember the gameplay is usually stiff and simplistic. I'm not saying they are bad games, I just don't usually enjoy them.

>>9716347
That one I got from vpuniverse:
https://vpuniverse.com/files/file/7336-elvira-limited-edition/

>>9715932
I realize physics probably escapes you but there is a literal object inside a pinball machine that is subject to momentum and gravity. Even virtual pinball games as far back as the NES have a nudge button to imitate the effect of bumping the machine. You can learn more about it here:
https://www.generationgenius.com/videolessons/newtons-laws-of-motion-video-for-kids/

Turn-based strategy games, specifically Shouzou Kaga's games.

>>9713976
What about mini pinballs?

>>9716456
>maybe if i pseudcope even harder i'll look less foolish
Has that ever worked for you? It literally had the exact opposite result in this case. Can you really not see how absolutely ridiculous you look trying to backpedal on your bullshit by pretending you're not a clueless child?

>>9716413
Not liking them for their stiff controls is understandable? But for being simplistic? Wtf! That's the charm of the best retro games (and not only).

You people have no idea the kind of abuse pinball machines get in an arcade setting. Especially nudgers who claim it's okay. It's not. You are lowering the life expectancy of the pinball machine.

Pinball machines get HAMMERED in arcades. I do contract repair work for an arcade that's only open Thurs to Sunday. Yet the pinball machines are abused hard. Imagine hundreds of people shifting and abusing a machine from opening to closing.

For one machine alone... I've had to replace both VUKs, coils in one of the back boxes, completely replace the eject coil, several transistors, numerous switches, and I had to repair the ramp. And yesterday it developed a tilt problem. The arcade owner has tried to tell players to go easy on the machine, but has decided to sell a bunch of the older and vintage machines to private collectors. These machines are now leaving the public setting, and won't be available for the public to use anymore.

I'm sure these older machines will be okay in a home environment, but they can't handle the hammering and absolute abuse of a public arcade.

Treat pinball with some respect. A single machine costs more than most people's cars.

>>9716795
Well, there is a difference between games that are considered pioneers and games that came after all that innovative mechanics were implemented and improved through the years. For instance, Wolfenstein 3D is not the same as Hovertank 3D, and Jazz Jackrabbit 2 is not the same as Jazz Jackrabbit 1. All these games are retro but these changes make the early games somewhat unplayable.

Yes, games like PacMan and Galaxian are great and I enjoyed them a lot back in time. But today when I try to play them I get bored after 15 minutes. That's the problem I have with many 80s/early 90s games.

>>9716546
What are you even trying to say? That people who are good at pinball don't nudge the machine? Is someone pointing out that nudges are a thing people who are good at pinball do really cope? Really? That's the angle you're going for here?

>>9717040
>Yes, games like PacMan and Galaxian are great and I enjoyed them a lot back in time. But today when I try to play them I get bored after 15 minutes. That's the problem I have with many 80s/early 90s games.

Not the anon you replying to but that's because you have too options in front of you. If you only had 80s and 90s games to play with, then it would be a different story.

I took my kids to a video game museum and arcade. One of the rules I made was no ipad or cellphones during the visit. I made them leave their cell phone at home (I still had mine). I would take any photos they wanted. But I wanted them to pay attention.

They whined at first but then they SERIOUSLY got into the groove after about 20 minureses. We stayed their for a few hours. They started playing all the big hit games from 70s, 80s, and 90s.

By the end, my son and daughter didn't want to get off the Neo Geo Arcade machine they had set up. I practically had to drag them away because it was closing time. But they wanted to keep playing in the 80s/90s theme arcade the museum has setup.

Kids are very adaptable. Of course they like new stuff, but they will also play the retro games. You just gotta set up the right environment for it. Take away distractions. Limit their options sometimes.

Do the same for yourself. Impose a rule where you won't think about modern games for an hour. If you can, Put all your retro stuff in one room that solely dedicated to retro 80s or 90s games. Don't have any newer tech inside it. Not even your cellphone.

>>9717089
Well, they are kids after all. I used to go to arcades and had a MAME emulator at home as a kid, and I still enjoyed both retro games and modern games from that time.

>If you can, Put all your retro stuff in one room that solely dedicated to retro 80s or 90s games. Don't have any newer tech inside it. Not even your cellphone
Maybe it will work. I usually go to an arcade with some friends like 2 or 3 times a year and we have a good time there. I think the hard part is to play them at home with all the available options, lol. Thanks anon.

>>9717078
I'm saying you should just take the L and stop coping. You don't need to "manhandle the machine" to "be good at pinball". No amount of backpedaling is going to change the fact that you made a very stupid and embarrassing claim. You should just listen to the kitty and stop posting. But the power of autism compels you.

>>9718095
Yes you fucking do. You are literally just lying out of your ass right now. If you don't bump the machine you're not playing pinball properly.

>>9718095
What backpedal, by the way? I'm calling you a liar and no amount of meme posting is going to cover for you.

>>9715247
>brings up participation trophies
Man, are you like 60?

The reason "the kids" aren't into pinball isn't because they're all just pussies, it's because where the fuck are you going to find a pinball table these days? There's probably not just one sitting in your local bar like there was in the 70's, when you were 25. There are far less arcades in general. I've genuinely seen like two pinball machines in my life, ever.

>>9716870
As someone who actually knows what he is talking about, how feasible do you think this anons idea is >>9714836 using a type of cushioned surface large enough for an entire machine? Probably not in an actual arcade, but for prolonged home use if one had a machine.

>>9718328
I can't imagine a heavy piece of equipment on four legs would be safe to put anywhere other than on a solid floor. The weight distribution might get all out of whack and one of the legs could fail.

>>9718053
>Well, they are kids after all.
>Maybe it will work. I usually go to an arcade with some friends like 2 or 3 times a year and we have a good time there. I think the hard part is to play them at home with all the available options, lol. Thanks anon

The key is to remove distractions. I'm not sure if you are aware, but we not have a new trend of "no cellphones" come up.

We have weddings where guests must leave their cell phone with a designated staff member before going in and guests aren't allowed to keep it during the wedding ceremony or reception. The bride and groom want people to be focused and not distracted. They also don't want a ton of people having their cellphones out in pictures when they hire a wedding photographer.

I went to a wedding where it was held outdoors in the country and I had to leave my cellphone with a staff member before I was allowed on the property. It actually turns out for the better.

Some in-person meetings at companies require people to leave their cellphones before going inside.

Many "Escape rooms" require you to leave your cellphone with the front desk before going inside. They don't want cheaters and people unfocused.

It's not just about kids. Its all about removing distractions and keeping the human mind focused. If I told you that your cellphone and computer weren't available, then you would adapt and learn to enjoy it. You wouldn't have a fallback option in the back of your mind.

>>9716446
Thank you anon, I didn't realize that was just a re-release of Party Monsters but it's Party Monster so it's still great and the new art is really nice and amazing for a modern Stern table.

It appears that pinball is suffering from the same malaise that modern vidya is in terms of too many remakes and the overuse of boring "safe" concepts for new machines.
If you look at what sort of things came out in the 80's and 90's you'll notice that in between the licensed movie designs, there are a whole ton of bizarre and unique machines based on concepts that seem to be too much for the current era.
Can ingenuity in pinball design be revived, or is the industry forever destined to pander to private collector nostalgiafag boomers as it dies even further?

>>9718759
>Can ingenuity in pinball design be revived
No but recent tables have returned to drawn artwork and there are some innovators like Weird Al's Museum of Natural Hilarity

>>9713642
Yep, VPX is pretty amazing. Way better than making your own cab.

Tons of tables, including most of the classics have been converted here: https://vpuniverse.com/files/category/107-vr-virtual-reality-pinball/

>>9718759
>If you look at what sort of things came out in the 80's and 90's you'll notice that in between the licensed movie designs, there are a whole ton of bizarre and unique machines based on concepts that seem to be too much for the current era.

Pinball was cheaper back then and there were like 20 different pinball companies in the USA back in the 80s.

Now there's only like 1 or 2 major ones left in the USA.

>>9718107
>>9718110
>In order to really be good at pinball you have to manhandle the machine
Keep coping kiddo

the problem with pinball is that the designs look cool, attractive and/or nostalgic but all of them play the same.

>>9718280
Nah. I'm only 54 and a half.
Sure. You're not going to find a pinball table on tiktok or at the bottom of a box of tide pods. So a legit problem for the kiddies.