/vr/ - Retro Games

>>9701787
The PS2 from what I know has very similar architecture to the PSP, and the PSP furthermore has a better CPU than the PS2. Yet, PSP emulation is so amazing that you can play a 3D PSP game for hours on an ARM device and only use 30% of your battery

Emulating the PS3 remaster of Kingdom Hearts 2 is smoother on my PC than emulating the PS2 original. It's pretty funny.

>>9701790
does it though? in that case, you'd expect PS2 to be piss easy to emulate too.

>>9701787
Both their architectures were designed by overconfident apes.

Saturn emulates fine now (mednafen/beetle saturn) but needs a strong cpu indeed.

Pssx2 is improving, not 100% yet but very playable.

Just shows what a shitshow of a hardware design both were.

>>9701787
I was emulating the Saturn using SSF on a 3.2 GHz dual core Pentium 4 back in the mid to late 2000's. Sure the compatibility wasn't perfect but there were plenty of games I managed to play to completion.

i don't remember having any issue emulating the saturn with mednafen on retroarch

>>9701790
>very similar architecture to the PSP
Only superficially. PS2's GPU is more complex and has more programmable components.

accurate emulation is notoriously expensive no matter the architecture, on top of that it's something that people only think they want, not what they really want.

Both had notoriously complicated components to actually emulate properly, so it's only fairly recently that certain devs have cracked the code more and more to getting both consoles having great emulation. It's mostly stenzek who worked on the PCSX2 backend to get it running as smoothly as it does these days and the Mednafen dev is just a savant anyway so I'm not surprised they were able to create the best Saturn emulator out of thin air.

>>9701826
I was able to run the Saturn module just fine on a 4th gen i5.

>>9701787
Saturn = too many processes in parallel, in-order execution is too slow, also poorly documented hardware and address spaces
PS2 = too highly specialized to be emulated well, can't easily emulate a 2560-bit bus on a platform that never had bandwidth that high, hacks must be developed, combine that with scratchpad, one-of-a-kind gpu behavior that isn't well understood but can do obscenely advanced things that pc didn't really catch up to and still struggles with the things it excels at (alpha effects)

>>9701975
>pc didn't really catch up to and still struggles with the things it excels at (alpha effects)
Can we not mystify the PS2?

>>9702004
>Can we not mystify the PS2?
PS2 has Atari graphics. HAHAHA!
Gonna go play Saturn now…
I actually play more ps1 than ps2.

>>9702004
I'm not
I'm waiting for modern consoles and PCs to stop choking with alpha effects because the PS2 sure did not

Dolphin absolutely pantsing PCSX2 over the last couple of years with performance improvements has finally kicked PCSX2 into gear.

>>9702037
After stenzek joined the PCSX2 team and when it got its Qt6 update the nightly branch basically became the go-to. Using the stable PCSX2 branch makes no sense these days.

>>9702004
>“When the [PlayStation 2] came out, one unique characteristic of that system was that the screen fill rate was very fast. Even looking back now, it’s very fast. In some cases, it’s faster than the PS3. There, we were able to use a lot of textures. It was able to do that read-modify-write, where it reads the screen, you take the screenshot, and you modify it and send it back. It could do that very quickly.
>“I don’t know if anybody remembers, but when the PS2 first came out, the first thing I did on that was a demo for the announcement. I showed a demo of GT3 that showed the Seattle course at sunset with the heat rising off the ground and shimmering. You can’t re-create that heat haze effect on the PS3 because the read-modify-write just isn’t as fast as when we were using the PS2. There are things like that. Another reason is because of the transition to full HD.”
This is the reason people think that. PS2 only has 4MB VRAM so shitty textures and generally interlacing but at least it has better effects than PS3... What a stupid thing to prioritize.
Keep in mind quote doesn't even mean that it was better than PS3. It also mentions the reason they might not have created the same effect might have been because game runs on higher resolution overall.
Before people bring this up GT4 never rendered at 1080i. It only upscaled it to 1080i.
>>9702042
That's true for any emulator. Never use the stable version.

>>9701787
The PS2 having non-standard floating point means that its not fundamentally possible to emulate it correctly with current cpus. They are just not fast enough, and since single threaded performance has stalled may never be.

>>9701791
>Emulating the PS3 remaster of Kingdom Hearts 2
Just get the PC port, dummy.

>>9702619
This was prior to the PC port releasing.

>>9701887
Cpu requirements rise exponentially with accuracy.

>>9702004
This

The PS2 was a poorly designed piece of shit. All the other 6th gen consoles were easy to develop for except for that monstrosity of the PS2.

Sony fucked up hard, especially after the ps1 which was actually really well designed for its time.

I really don't see the point in 1-to-1 perfect emulation save for the sheer novelty of it.
Why wouldn't you just play on original hardware at that point?
This is where you'll tell me you can't upscale/downscale, use non-standard controllers, etc etc but the thing is, if you're doing that then it's already not an authentic experience.

>>9702652
>Sony fucked up hard
>the best selling console ever
Uh huh

>>9703094
They had momentum from PS1 and got lucky with Dreamcast quitting early on. It really was a shitty console. Read interviews from devs from that era. Capcom 5 happened for a reason.

>>9703116
>best selling console ever
>they got lucky

At least PS2s practically grow on trees and are super cheap to soft mod, I just can't bring myself to pay what it costs to buy even a Japanese Saturn and a cartridge for the handful of exclusives I want to play (yeah the arcade ports are neat but 90% of the time I'm just going to emulate the arcade version directly, and I have a JRPG backlog far too deep to start worrying about untranslated Saturn games)

>>9703132
A lot of Saturn games are getting translations recently with more on the horizon, which is nice

>>9703116
Nintendo paid for exclusives because that's what everyone does. Funny how PS2 is such a mess yet most games run at 60fps and look great yet the easy to develop for 360 rarely went above 30.

>>9701787
Since this thread is full of uneducated rubes guessing at explanations and thinking that’s actually a satisfying answer, I’ll give you a partial answer I pulled from Google:

The PS2 code has fairly extensive use of self-modifying code; Naughty Dog in particular will frequently load parts of the executable in and out of memory on both the PS2 main processor (the EE) and the PS1 processor (the IOP), and rely on the synchronisation between these two separate processors to be fairly tight. Trying to make the EE and IOP separate threads running simultaneously breaks this synchronisation, so the EE and IOP have to run on the same thread.
Additionally, the PS2 has two vector units; VU0 is associated with the EE (it can be used as a floating-point SIMD unit in the EE instruction stream) and VU1 is associated with the GS [the PS2's GPU, the Graphics Synthesizer] Interface (GIF) (it can directly output primitives to the GS). This means that VU0 needs to run on the same thread that the EE runs on (because there is instruction stream interlocking), and VU1 needs relatively tight synchronisation to the GS (it is feasible to put it on its own thread, but games can be quite picky with timings)

>>9703149
They run using interlacing. Those jaggies exists on PS2 for a reason. And they try to run at 60 fps. They don't hit the mark.

>>9701787
Saturn was hard for a long time but it's very good now. It's better than most 3D consoles were ten years ago let alone in 2003

>>9702662
You are very short-sighted.
These emulator devs are archiving the systems hardware and games for all eternity. People 1000 years from now can play emulated systems and its game when all the systems are gone

>>9703239
Except after people stop giving a shit they will have to emulate the hardware the emulator runs on.

>>9701787
Nonsense hardware. The Saturn in particular had like 8 different processors (not cores) inside it.

>>9703149
> PS2
> 60fps
bruh most every PS2 game is 30FPS or worse, WTF console are you playing?!
Ridge Racer V is a smooth 60. ...What else?

>>9703408
You're autistic and nobody wants to hear the stupid things you say

>>9703423
That was an unnecessarily hurtful thing to say.

>>9703423
...this is exactly why we fought against 6th gen

>>9701787
>in 2003 that by 2023 Saturn and PS2 would still be pretty hard to emulate
Everyone keeps saying PS2 emulation is still bad but is it? I've been playing all sorts of weird stuff on pcsx2 and pretty much every problem can be fixed by just using the software mode. There are some weird bugs here and there but those are rare. For example Japanese version of Dirge of Cerberus can't be beaten because the jump is lower in that emulated version that it should be for some reason, you can't jump over a curb close to the end of the game

>>9702652
PS1 was not well designed. At all.

Inking a deal with Jap developers because everyone hated Nintendo's shady practices was the real smart move

The namco deal made the PS1

>>9703445
wut

it didn't need to be an engineering marvel. it just werks.

at least it didn't have a unified architecture with a single fucking channel to memory in 1996 like another console i won't name

>>9703445
It's by far the best console of it's generation but I think they got lucky with PS1. On paper it has big issues but given we are talking very primitive low poly it's issues don't stick out.

>>9703230
>>9703408
tons of games, do you just not play anything?

>>9703557
> tons of games
Weird because i remember playing Kingdom Hearts 1&2, Katamari Damacy, Burnout: Takedown, Need for Speed Underground, Timesplitters 3: Future Perfect, Simpsons: Road Rage, NHL Hitz 2003, God of War, Shadow of the Colossus and all 3 GTAs and they were all sucking wind at 30FPS, and if they tried for 60 they sure as hell didn't maintain it.
So please, tell me, where are these "tons of games" that run at a smooth 60FPS that you are referring to?

So why is Xbox emulation lagging behind? Is it just because of lack of interest, or is it even more complicated than PS2 and Saturn?

>>9701787
this was the final generation before tech started to converge. they are fairly unique machines.

>>9703615
>Shadow of the Colossus
More like 15 fps

>>9703615
tony hawk 3-american wasteland
every ssx
downhill domination
mgs 2
sky odyssey
ace combat 4-0
ape escape 2, 3
sly cooper1-3
ratchet 1-whatever they go up to
jak 1-x
18 wheeler
sub rebellion
both contras
dmc1-3
no games that gen hold 60 locked from beginning to end, pointless measuring stick

>>9703664
> no games that gen hold 60 locked from beginning to end

>>9703673
drops frames.

>>9703674
under extreme pressure, like 4 pairs of ice climbers and a ton of items on screen, but it really doesn't.
also Metroid Prime.

>>9703682
just play on hyrule castle 1v1, it drops frames constantly
prime also drops frames and looks very flat and dull. really the gamecube isn't a good example for what you're trying here. Neither is Xbox. PS2 still has the most 60fps games of the generation and if your metric is "holds 60 from beginning to end" you're playing a losing game because there will be nothing to satisfy you that generation.

>>9702219
That's weird because GT3 is playable on PS3

https://youtu.be/WiILbhENrds

>>9703690
>hyrule castle 1v1 drops frames
No it does not lol. Hell, load up 4 players and a bunch of items and try it right now.
Fountain of Dreams drops frames with 4 players because of the reflections, but the cases where Melee is not 60 are few and far between, and it's safe to say Melee is a solid 60FPS game if 99.9% of the time you play it it's a rock solid 60.

>>9703692
god damn i fucking love this game

>>9703230
Literally every console connected to a TV ultimately outputs interlaced. Rendering progressive internally just wastes fill rate and video memory as half the lines will never be seen.

>>9703705
it can drop pretty frequently on a real cube, I can't test it tonight because I play all my games on a wii which does a good job of fixing the pathetic performance of most gamecube games

>>9703615
>I literally played 10 games on a console with 4300 games so nobody could possibly have had a different experience than me
Burnout 3 is not 30fps either. NFS is one of the few major racing games on PS2 that is. Most relevant platformers are 60fps, even a surprising amount of RPGs like SO3 and some of the Tales games are 60fps. ZoE and Armored Core but all of those drop frames like a motherfucker, but ZoE is just like that and and From has never made a console game with stable performance.

>>9703728
>Literally every console connected to a TV ultimately outputs interlaced. Rendering progressive internally just wastes fill rate and video memory as half the lines will never be seen.

>>9703634
relatively new starting point but it's made a lot of progress in the last few years

>>9703094
You can fuck up hardware design and still be a best seller. How dumb can you be?

The wii outsold the ps3/x360, so the wii is the superior machine.

>>9703445
Goven the timeframe and compitition it was the easiest to work with

In retrospect they are all shit and were surpassed by PCs fairly early on, especially once the 3dfx cards came out. But still an interesting generation where everyone did something completely different on a hw level.since nothing was sandardized yet.

>>9701887
People were also emulating mario64 in 1998 or something. But accurate emulation is so much more expensive

>>9703116
>They got lucky with Dreamcast quitting early on.
ok Bernie

>>9703132
>At least PS2s practically grow on trees
yeah let me guess, half of them have fucked lasers?

>>9703991
>fuck up hardware design
>more than 4000 games made for it
Wanna keep trying anon

>>9704029
Stop trolling, nobody can be this retarded to think that the two have to be correlated

Also the majority of those 4k titles are chink majong clones and other garbage.

Keep trying

>>9704020
It's cheaper to use OPL than disks anyways.

>>9702631
Oh. Carry on then.

>>9704037
The only troll here is you, saying it’s bad hardware

>>9704062
Its hardware is overly complex, especially when compared to the compitition. Early ps2 looks worse than dreamcast while on paper the ps2 is far superior. It took developers a long time to make the best out of it but even then it cannot compete to the gamecube.

When a system is difficult to work with and doesnt even outperform the rest then yes, the hardware is bad.

Same for ps3 with it's redicilous cell processor.

>>9704072
I know you're just going to shitpost about DoA2 or LM24 (which is kind of like using MGS2 as proof the Xbox is crappy hardware) so I don't know why I'm bothering, but I wouldn't say, eg. Frame Gride is more technically advanced than Armored Core 2 or Sega GT dunks on Driving Emotion Type-S visually.

>>9703991
the point is, its not really a fuck up if it accomplished it's goal: sell a a lot and make a cuntload of money
you're just arguing because it gives you a dopamine fix

>>9704168
If the hardware design was that great, then why drop all that special shit in its successor.

Developers had a hard time with it and took a long time to get the most out of it. That eats away developer resources which could be better spend elsewhere.

Same for the ps3 cell processor. Shit got dropped hard with the ps4 and never heard from since.

Discussion here is on a hardware level alone, it's fanboys like you that feel personally attacked by this and try to justify it by counterarguing that it was a financial success, so the hw must be good

>>9704209
I wonder what world you live in

>>9704209
The SPE are just extensions of the same design philosophy, processors for vector stuff.
The AMD Bulldozer 8-core CPU in the PS4 is, again, an extension of that. The SPE are limited processors with narrow application, the x86 cores are fully featured, flexible cores.

>>9703692
>This is a PS2 game being played on a BC PS3.
It has PS2 inside.

Sony developed a PS2 emulator for the PS3 once they took BC out of the post launch models. I believe it runs a good amount of games but definitely not all of them without issues.

>>9704331
>Sony developed
Heheh
While technically true what actually happened is they 'hired this man' (the main developer) away from the PCSX2 project and worked on adapting the code to run on their console. That's why it has a lot of shared emulator drawbacks with the early versions and generally isn't super reliable even when it works.

>>9701787
> Good condition Japanese Saturns are around $100 shipped to the US from GRORIOUS NIPPON
> A cartridge that allows you to play burned games is $30-$50
> More expensive ODEs are available if you want to get serious

> PS2s are plentiful, most people probably still have one sitting in a closet somewhere
> They are piss easy to softmod now, and if you have a fat with a Network Adapter you can throw a hard drive in it, and run games directly from it, complete with faster loadtimes (you can add games by ripping them from the PS2's DVD drive, transferring .isos directly to the hard drive by plugging it into your PC, or by connecting your PS2 to your home network and FTPing the disc images from your PC to the PS2). Compatibility is also excellent. If you're desperate and don't have a network adapter (or stuck with a slim) you can even run games from a USB stick, but loadtimes are very slow due to USB 1.1 and compatibility takes a big hit. A softmodded PS2 can also run burned DVD copies of games.

Emulation is cool and all, but its not terribly difficult to play games natively on either console. The Saturn just requires a little bit of money to buy, and the PS2 just requires a little bit of time to set up.

Sadly we're past the days of people giving away free Trinitrons, but if you don't have a CRT you can still manage to get ahold of one for nothing/next to nothing if you're vigilant, and both consoles really shine on an old tube.

>>9704594
yeah I get it anon, but you could say the same about almost every single console. can't wait to buy NES + flashcart, SNES + flashcart, Genesis + flashcart, PS1 + whatever, Saturn + that cart, N64 + flashcart, modded PS2, modded GC, modded Xbox, hook them up to my glorious CRT and create a wire hell.

>>9704626
Every additional console you just listed (except for the Xbox) is easily emulatable. You don't need to buy the systems and flashcarts because you can easily emulate those systems.

The point I am making is that while the PS2 and Saturn can be a pain in the ass to emulate, it is relatively easy to play each console's games on native hardware for free (assuming you have the console itself). This is the next best thing to free emulation, and in many ways is superior to emulation.

>>9704594
Do you have a soft mod link guide you recommend for the phat ps2

Saturn isn't hard to emulate anymore and hasn't been that way for many years

>>9701787
Not sure what you mean, I was playing emulated games for both back in 2007 or so.

>>9701975
>also poorly documented hardware and address spaces
this is false, if anything, the Saturn is one of the best documented consoles out there. The only real problem with Saturn emulation is that you have 1 million hardware features to do and anyone working on it will lose interest before they finish.

>can't easily emulate a 2560-bit bus on a platform that never had bandwidth that high
PCs exceeded the ps2s bandwidth in the mid 00s already, early 10s if you only count low-end hardware.
the real issue there is that the PS2 does not use proper IEEE 754 compliant floating point processing, so you either get bugs or you make a low level floating point emulator. Dreamcast also has that problem.

I keep my PS3 around solely for PS2 emu. It seems to work pretty well even though I have a slim. Once that dies I will probably use my PS2 OPL (i dont use it cause I dont have a good CRT, good upscaler, or accessories to use bluetooth on it)

>>9702219
PS2 was very tightly designed around the original concept so it could have strong points like that. PS3 had a Geforce tucked on in the last minute so they can get the console out in time, so it had a ton of problems, memory access speed was one of them, in-order execution was another. You had to do a ton of tricks to get decent performance out of it, and you had to do those in a way to trick the compiler which made things more esoterical.

GT4 did use 1080i for the UI as far as I remember, but used a lower res for the polygons. or something like that.
also note that 1080i is just 540p and that's not that far off of 480p, which the PS2 had no problem doing. I wouldn't even be surprised if that 1080i was anamorphic (most ps2 480p games used something like 512x480 framebuffer and stretched it to 640x480).

>>9704671
No, I did mine years ago.

Look for guides on installing FreeMCBoot (free memory card boot, although I think there is a method for installing the softmod directly to a hard drive now) and/or OPL (Open PS2 Loader, the software that is used to run PS2 games from disc images on a PS2's hard drive).

Last I checked there were even people on various forums who would even install the softmod onto a PS2 memory card for free if you sent it to them. Seems weird, but the most you can lose is a PS2 memory card.

>>9704357
Is this just a rumor, or has there been some kind of leak?

>>9701787
The thing with pcsx2 is that it still has code from 2006, lots of hacks and workarounds.

>>9704209
>If the hardware design was that great, then why drop all that special shit in its successor.

They tried, but they didn't have enough time to get it done right. PS3 was meant to have two Cell processors, one as a CPU, the other as a GPU, on a unified xdr memory bus. They had difficulties getting the second Cell to work as a GPU.

Microsoft asked IBM (who was co-creator of the Cell) to make a similar chip but with less bullshit, and they put that in the xbox 360. Sony then had 1 year to get the PS3 out the market and they dropped the second Cell and put in a Geforce chip, which bit them really hard in the ass because Nvidia are huge assholes and also because the Cell used XDR memory while the Geforce chip used GDDR3 (I think).

>>9704729
GT4 in 1080i mode runs the game and replays at 1080i (well, at a lower resolution that is upscaled to 1080i), and the menus at 480p. It switches resolutions back and forth, which can fuck with some modern TVs and/or video adapters.

You can run the whole game at 480p as well, and depending on your screen it might look better.

>>9704779
I remember reading about some third party devs bitching because the PS3 had a hard 256MB/256MB split between RAM and VRAM, and the 360 had a unified 512MB pool that could be allocated to the CPU or GPU as needed.

This plus memory leaks from Bethesda being staffed primarily by retards is supposed to be the main reason why Gamebryo games on the PS3 are such a shitshow.

>>9701787
>by 2023 Saturn and PS2 would still be pretty hard to emulate
this isn't really accurate, i emulate both pretty flawlessly on my gaming pc and steam deck

>>9704745
This is true, I remember reading this on pcsx2 forum

>>9704779
Having a cell as gpu would've been a developer nightmare. (If sony managed to do it)
Dev studios would have to spend so many extra resources on making their shit work properly on both ps3 and x360 while adding nothing to the end product.

Glad sony couldn't manage that one.

>>9704739
Word I’ll check it out

>>9704745
You can just look at the compatibility list and see emulation bugs that continue to exist in PCSX2.

>>9704594
You can still get free Trinitrons if they're 200lbs.

>>9704594
I got my CRT for free on the side of the road about 10 years ago. 32-inch Toshiba. Loaded it into the back of my stepdad's truck and brought it home. The geometry is far from perfect, but it's been a faithful workhorse and I love it to pieces.

>>9704729
>PS2 was very tightly designed around the original concept so it could have strong points like that
What does that even mean anon? It produced worse results compared to Dreamcast. Who even cares about particle effects that much? OG Xbox is worse than both GC and PS2 when it comes to effects yet people always prefer OG Xbox version of the games. Pretty much all PS2 games have more or additional particle effects compared to others but it hardly matters when game looks like shit with low res textures and jaggies all over the place.
PS3 is continuation of their mistakes from PS2. They made even more stupid design decisions. Sony kept saying Cell over and over again. And when it couldn't deliver they added an inferior GPU compared to 360. As a result if games didn't used Cell to aid GPU 360 games looked better. There was a meeting with Apple where they presented Cell to them. Apple engineers were apparently shocked of their stupidity regarding design of Cell.

>>9705789
The main reason 360 games ran and looked better is that the 360 had a big install base lead from launching a year earlier and way cheaper so nearly everything had that as the lead platform for the first few years of the generation. Not to say it didn't have more straight forward rendering power and there's examples of PS3 biased games that still run way better on 360 like Armored Core but the gap is not so wide that other Japan focused games like Final Fantasy and Musou weren't always better on PS3 or that later in the gen when PS3 caught up in sales things didn't even out. You can just look at PS2 having the best version of many multi-plats to know that doesn't tell you everything about the hardware.

>>9705862
>You can just look at PS2 having the best version of many multi-plats to know that doesn't tell you everything about the hardware.
That's because PS2 is the best selling console of it's gen by far. Of course devs would put more time into it. That's not about PS2 having better hardware. It has worse.
Japanese games were better on PS3 because that's what they tried to pass to development towards. Musou, Final Fantasy, Armored Core, Dragon Ball all designed their engines for PS3. PS3 is also partially responsible for making PSP more popular as many Japanese devs couldn't get accustomed to Cell. There is an embarrassing Enhanced Arms for PS3. There are other PS3 games that are technically worse but given they were ported later on, has added content. So people prefer PS3 version and think it's the better version when it's technically worse. Even FF13, GT5 has been in development hell for a long time. Many small sized Japanese devs went from PS2 to PSP as a result. There is also that Japanese devs preferred 360 version generally. People were calling many of them like westaboos and weren't listening to their complaints regarding PS3's design. Anyone shit talked PS2 or PS3 was a lazy dev. Mikami and Itagaki were shit talking Sony during PS2 era. You know of whole RE4 and Clover Studio's history. Inafune looks like a lost cause nowadays, but 360 vs PS3 most likely also have influenced his views with Western collaborations.

>>9705909
>That's because PS2 is the best selling console of it's gen by far. Of course devs would put more time into it. That's not about PS2 having better hardware. It has worse.
Thanks you illiterate dipshit, now excuse me while I don't read any of your post because you clearly couldn't figure out how to read mine.

>>9701787
SSE4 and AVX versions of PCSX2 are quite good, don't know what you're talking about

>>9701956
Is the PS2 CPU then fully understood? I thought even the PSP GPU was architecturally similar, just weaker

>>9706215
Let's put it this way: The components are fairly well understood (CPU, VU, GPU). Emulating them at factory speed is also relatively easy. Separating them and running them with modern amenities (Hyperthreading for example) is hard. The vector units are so attached to the part it's hard to separate them and "scale up". The PSP doesn't have the vector units, so it's easier to separate them, put things on the GPU.
Compare to the PS3, which apart from some major idiocy with the IBM PowerPC architecture, is practically a modern PC. You got the CPU with its RAM pool, you got the GPU with its RAM pool, there's nothing especially problematic about it.

>>9705909
>Anyone shit talked PS2 or PS3 was a lazy dev.

Common thing you hear, same with saturn or n64 when it's underperforming.

The 'lazy dev' thing is a meme, it's (almost) always about having to fuck with overly complex hardware and high time pressure to get the software out the door.

>>9701787
For Saturn it's because of the lack of documentation and architecture. For PS2 it's because people are retards and think a cobbled together hackjob is okay because the five games they played worked decently.

>>9706837
>The 'lazy dev' thing is a meme, it's (almost) always about having to fuck with overly complex hardware and high time pressure to get the software out the door.

The team at Konami that handled the Saturn port of Symphony of the Night were under a shitload of time pressure, and as a side bonus at least a couple of the people had never even worked with the Saturn hardware before. Konami likely didn't give a shit since they were planning on releasing it as a budget game in one region.

The team left a text file on the disc with messages to the player from a bunch of them. Mostly its just typical developer stuff like "I worked really hard on this, I hope you like it", and some bts stuff (they were going to have an evil version of Maria in the game that would likely have been possessed by Shaft and would have been an additional bossfight), but the lead programmer wrote this weird rant about a traffic ticket he got for leaving his car parked on the street over a weekend. I think the game broke something inside of him.

>>9706904
That's rough
There was also something similar with the Hercules game on the N64. NPCs in the game even started complaining about how the game was rushed/incomplete which came from disgruntled developers