/vr/ - Retro Games

>>9692993
SotC is Aonuma's favorite game and that's exactly what they did with the titans in BotW, funnily enough

>>9692993
the first mainstream movie game

I feel like it needed one more year

>>9692994
>SotC is Aonuma's favorite game
Outside of Nintendo games

>>9692993
I agree, maybe after the tutorial one, have colossi 2-7 available. then the arena one as a sort of midgame chokepoint. then colossi 9-15, then the final one

>>9692993
>It's literally made for nonlinearity
The world is so interesting and mysterious you still want to explore it even when you know where to go next
>>9692994
Funny how you mention BoTW in a SoTC thread because the first time I stumbled upon one of the flying dragons I knew I was playing a masterpiece

>>9692993
>>9693005
Would also make it way, way, way more replayable

>>9692993
You aren't supposed to explore. The plot of the games assumes the character rushed the boss gauntlet in 2/3 hours.

>>9693008
You explore inadvertently when looking for the shitty crevice in a mountain

Why is he such a jobber?

The remake could have attempted that instead of just making Wanda ugly. Also no forced respawning in the shrine after defeating a colossus so you can beat them back to back. Imagine the fun

>>9693007
Time attack and it's multitude of actually unique rewards was made for replayability.

>>9693006
>The world is so interesting and mysterious you still want to explore it even when you know where to go next
this, the game doesn't need in-game rewards to motivate you to explore, the exploration and discoveries are their own reward.

>>9693018
Remake looks great dunno what you are about.

>>9693028
Not enough challenge to the action in the game, once you know the puzzle it becomes too easy. I replayed this game 3 times and I feel like I won't play it ever again because it just became too trivial over the years.

>>9692993
That would require a much bigger world, in current one you'd run into a colossus pretty much everywhere you go, randomly. If only 1 is active at a time you have to actually go looking for it.
>>9693008
There's nothing about the story that would require him to do so, you don't know how far away civilization is and how fast they can reach you.

>>9693057
>There's nothing about the story that would require him to do so,
He only had a few hours of head start over the shaman and the fact they chase him is the main motivator for him to be quick.

>>9693057
Maybe the best way to do it would be to have some kind of puzzles in the world that you would need to find and solve, and by solving each you release the associated colossus. That way you'd be free to explore but the world wouldn't be filled with roaming colossusisisi that you would run into randomly

>>9693074
>He only had a few hours of head start over the shaman
How do you know that? The riders went back for backup, this is a forbidden land we could be days away from civilization.

>empty spaces, quiet scenes and vast maps make you fill in the gaps of suspense and wonder with your own mind
its genius and its a big reason why we talk about the game. but its pacing is the real star. ico has this in different increments. lots of nothing, exploring, some chasing, then a giant dramatic boss battle. you dont get clear directions so you have to use your own critical thinking instead of mindless button prompts and dumb combos, there is no handholding you throughout the battles. you just learn what works and do it.

You brought your piece of ass to the temple. Omnipotent voice tells you to seek _____ Colossi, one at a time in order. There are people after you trying to stop you. There shouldn't be time for casual exploration.

>>9693038
It looks horrendous, as expected from Bluepoint. Missing effects and animations, playdoh look, way too colorful, generic realism rather than ethereal impressionism, elfin protagonist turned into whiny, pudgy Hispanic with weirdly low hairline that makes him look proto-human in comparison, added nothing of value, all the other things people pointed out a million times. I can't even comphrened gobbling up a cheap Western rehash of a Japanese masterpiece, though

>>9693031
>the exploration and discoveries are their own reward.
>the discoveries
Lizards and a tree sometimes
>>9693089
>its genius and its a big reason why we talk about the game.
The bosses are, not mashing the x button galopping through a PS1 world

>>9693091
Sour grapes. Nothing more and nothing less

>>9693097
No, eyes in my head, standards and a minimum understanding of the creator's vision

>>9693096
no, its the atmosphere that created a lot of this games mystique. if you just fought boss after boss like the start of a street fighter match it wouldnt be the same game. what youre complaining about, the world you explore, the pacing and its feel, is a big part of the game and its charm point. people still look into it that world and explore it to this day

>>9692993
Yep. On a first playthrough it doesn't matter but it's too formulaic after 20 years.

>>9692994
loved how you can scale some of the titans freely and even sequence break a lot

>>9693108
>muh 3 autistic hardcore fans
Quite the pattern size

>>9693108
>no, its the atmosphere that created a lot of this games mystique.
The atmosphere wouldn't suffer just because you can pick from more than one titan or even run into one accidentally. If anything it would make it more atmospheric and mystical and less video gamey

>>9692993
You should've played the non-shit looking version and spent hours just enjoying the sights.

>>9693103
lol
lmao
But good on you for sticking to your guns

>>9693121
>its a classic and people are still talking about its world
looks like you fit into the autistic scale as well

>>9693132
I hope you mean the emulated version or the PS3 one not the butchered western adaptation

>>9693140
Where are those people right now?

>>9693096
>Lizards and a tree sometimes
That's exactly what I mean by in-game rewards. Fruit trees and lizards are in-game rewards that will level up your character. If that's all you're looking for, then that is all you will find.

remake made it fun to explore

>>9693145
Which has definitely proven that "fun" exploration makes SotC worse.

>>9693091

>>9693145
>diversity hires shitting some shallow details, light shafts and speedtrees into a world you already know
>:O
No, the original was

>>9693141
I fear he means the latter and there is a very vocal Sony fanboy in the thread right now

Sony killed Japan Studio, so fanboys don't have much of a choice but to pretend the original is worse and a shit-tier studio like Bluepoint is somehow on the same level

>>9693146
?

>>9693152
go back to /pol/

>>9693157
>Sony killed Japan Studio
>just looked it up
jesus

>>9693006
>>9693031
Do people derive joy from pushing a stick in one direction? There is literally nothing.

>>9693158
This looks like shit, anon

>>9693158
What's there to "?"? By putting collectibles into the world and adding pretty scenes to it, they changed the entire gameplay dynamic. It's no longer a desolate world where you go from one colossus to another, it's now just another third person nu-sony action adventure game, a collectathon where you mindlessly run around collecting shiny things.

>>9693167
i wasn't talking about the collectibles...
but the original makes you grind boss fights if you want to get to the secret garden lol i hardly see how collectibles is worse than that as far as optional crap goes!

>>9693158
>go back to /pol/
Way to reveal you prefer the remaster because they made the kid brown. lol

>>9693185
>but you can replay boss fights and kill lizards that's as bad as having 79 shiny orbs to collect around the world
Come on man.

>>9693158
Can you explain what you blocked me for right after I replied to you? Where is my "troll post"? Disagreeing with you? Because I said "diveristy hires"? Really?

What kind of emotionally unstable manchildren do they mod these days?

>>9693198
>What kind of emotionally unstable manchildren do they mod these days?
Just ask yourself who would want to do it for free

>>9693084
>How do you know that?
The game shows you the hero is a apprentice of the shaman that stole the body of the girl before the burial ritual.

>>9693158
Gears of War looks like that?

>>9693208
Yes

>>9693203
>still didn't get my janitor application acceptance email

>>9692993
Still one of the ugliest games I've ever seen, camera blur and 12 FPS not doing it any favors

>>9692993
linearity is a good thing, and sotc has the best possible order of colossi. Explore at your leisure, either way you'll be rewarded more than any amount of coins on mario.

>>9693091
For all your seething you forgot to mention that out of the three versions of SotC available the only two that are in a playable state and don't run in 10fps were made by Bluepoint.

>>9693264
Finding an ugly rock isn't rewarding, stop shitposting

>>9693275
>ps2 game runs at 30 frames on ps3
actually impressive for blue point standards

>>9692993
Dunno why they made it open world to begin with, the game tardwrangles you. Could have polished it some more and only stream the places where you have to go

>>9693292
Still seething? Will you mention that the new model has facial animation this time or will you pretend it's not a thing? I've seen you spam your DeS remake butthurt on /v/ 24/7 for a weeks straight this month. Seek help.

>>9692993
This is on Saturn?

>>9693142
youre on 4chan, retard. try to keep up.

>>9693146
>Which has definitely proven that "fun" exploration makes SotC worse
thats an opinion. if everybody disagrees with you then youre the autist with too much invested in this.

>>9693327
*you're

>>9692993
>would solve the issue with the "emptiness" when there are several colossi, maybe even roaming around
I think that SotC's precursor, Nico, tried to do this but it was deemed too difficult.

I do agree with you that the colossi should be accessible from the beginning. If you could do the first 15 in any order, there would be over 30,000 permutations. I also think that the colossi should get progressively more violent after each one is felled, adding new attacks and even areas. That would add a lot of replayability to the game, which I still think is very good regardless.

There are a couple other things, like the beam of light, which was fine for its purposes, but I think it would have been better if Dormin whispered riddles about where your supposed to go by referencing landmarks and the topography to take advantage of the so-to-speak wideshot "cinematography" of the game. Alternatively, he would whisper the locations of items or maybe some riddle about how to attain, like how in Ocarina of Time you have to shoot an arrow at the sun. I think saving items for after the game for some weird arcade mode was a mistake.

Finally, I think a day and night cycle along with rain that would affect slippage would have been cool to have been available outside of the Malus fight. You could pass the time at the resting places.

>>9693330
>video game critics disagree with you so you're wrong
When pretending to be retarded goes too far

>>9693097
>Sour grapes
How does that make sense? Anyone can buy a PS4 and a PS2 or PS3 and have both versions.

>>9692994
I'm surprised people don't bring up SotC more when talking about BotW, it feels like one of the biggest influences on that game. Shame they didn't do colossus fights for the divine beasts desu.

>>9693957
the biggest letdowns for me was how crappy horse riding was in botw and that you couldn't freefall like in Skyward Sword. Fortunately it looks like the next game will have freefalling... making it even more like Just Cause.

>>9692993
>would make it rewarding instead of boring and frustrating to come across such places while looking for your "right one"
Why would you even need all of these extra things cluttering the world when realistically the only incentives for you to go out and explore things is to either upgrade your stamina and health or just exploring for the sake of it. I'd argue that giving the player the option to complete certain optional objectives in the world and rewarding them with nothing would be even more frustrating than just having nothing there in the first place unless you want to add unnecessary shit like gear with stats.

The world of SoTC serves it's purpose both in terms of it's story and gameplay. Adding more pointless shit to it would just make the game unfocused

>>9693878
>There are a couple other things, like the beam of light, which was fine for its purposes, but I think it would have been better if Dormin whispered riddles about where your supposed to go by referencing landmarks and the topography to take advantage of the so-to-speak wideshot "cinematography" of the game
outside of performance this is the one major weakness of the game I'll recognize. It's a very stripped down, basic game, premise only has access two or three gameplay pillars. When there's no minions to fight, and very little in the way of collectables, you need interesting navigation to fill out that empty space. The light sword basically makes that component moot.

The game IS kinda linear, OP. The world was quite small for me because I was used to later open-world shit, or evne stuff at the time like the early GTAs, so I was underwhelmed by how it was just some paths and a few cool secret areas. I know that they wanted to do more with the world in the early builds, and I bet there is some build out there with those beta mountains fully explorable and everything, but Sony has it locked up somewhere, but yeah, I would've liked it to have a little more meat on it for sure, even if some of the collossi were a bit repetitive (I see that as a sort of Japanese perfectionist thing for the director to say that)

>>9694059
sorry what I mean is that the game itself was designed to be pretty linear, I feel like. It wasn't really trying to be that long because Ueda is kind of the type of guy who would rather people not spend too much time on a vidya, just having his game pass by you like a movie, without you needing to dedicate yourself that much.

>>9693957
> people don't bring up SotC more when talking about BotW
People who aren't shitposting and have actually played both games bring it up all the time. Every Zelda fan knows that Aonuma likes Team Ico stuff and you can see the influence starting from TP
>“I was too busy in 2016, so I couldn’t play a lot of games [laughs], but I did play The Last Guardian,” he continued. “[Fumito ] Ueda and I go back, so when he completed that game he sent a copy to me. It was actually a really busy time so I shouldn’t have been playing the game, but I just couldn’t resist, and it was really good.”

>>9693305
More isn't always better.
>>9693275
PS3 version's time trial is nearly impossible to beat.

>>9693305
>facial animation
yeah, the dead_emotionless_vacant_stare.bvh applied to an ugly model that completely misses the original style while not introducing anything worthwhile of its own is really improving the game

>9694582

>>9693006
>the first time I stumbled upon one of the flying dragons I knew I was playing a masterpiece

I hope you didn't keep thinking that after you realized they don't do anything and only serve as target practice for stupid crafting items

>>9693934
>everyone in this thread is a vg critic
>cant see where he went wrong with this stance

>>9692993
Great gimmick game but overhyped out of proportion. Most games by that dev are also meh

>>9693091
The remaster just isn't art anymore. Games literally used to be drawings (really creative textures, prebaked shadows and highlights). Now it's bump maps and shaders and tesselation everywhere, which isn't impressive because we can see how crudely it's slapped onto the game's facade

There is a reason many of us not only come here to talk retro games but to forget about newer games, like when people treat RR4 like the best RR even though 7 exists, or Namco games in general

It's almost like old Disney cartoon vs ugly CGI

>>9694551
Yeah somebody brought that up awhile back about the time trials. Said it was nigh unbeatable but if I didn’t mind that ps3 version was fine.

>>9692993
That would be nice but the much bigger problem is it's way too easy, almost to the point where it has no real gameplay besides repeatathon. When the tiny enemies are the only dangerous ones in a game about colossi you know you got a fundamental problem

>>9693275
Because porting a game is literally nothing compared to remaking it. But oh well, western devs are so retarded they can even fuck this up as evidenced by Silent Hill HD Collection

>>9695014
Right one is clearly better

>>9694582
Dead stare and head bobbing is the state of the original. There is no defending that considering From wanted to do facial animations but didn't have time and budge for them up until Elden Ring. You can see them attempt it already in the original Demon's Souls and later Dark Souls 1 but always failing on every conceivable level. The remake only added what From always wanted to do.

>>9695716
That's not how it works. Created work might have different ideas thought its development. What matters is what makes the cut. That and you're forgetting BluePoint really is incompetent. I don't agree with remake is always bad crowd but for Blue Point it really is the case.

>>9695724
Dude there are LITERALLY characters that have facial animation and ones that don't in From games. There is no deep artistic reason for that. It was simple budget and time constraints.

>>9695724
Problem with people that criticize Bluepoint remakes is such that they can't cry about gameplay because all their remakes run the original game logic underneath a new rendered so they resort to nitpicking about game lighting or models not looking low poly enough. It's so silly it border on mental illness.

>>9695759
Why should I play a game that look much worse when gameplay is the same?
>>9695727
see >>9693292 results speaks for it self. Also Wander is lacking many facial animations on SotC remake.

>>9695763
Bluepoint remakes address actually the most significant aspect of the games the remake. Framerate. The games simply play better due to not running in 10fps in the case of SotC or 15-25 in the case of DeS.

>>9695802
Emulation also does that. Also they managed the fuck up the boss fights in PS3 version. You know main combat of the game and didn't even notice it.

>>9695838
You cite emulation but the ps3 physics being bad is the effect of running the game above 20fps. So your emulated version will expirience the same bug if you try to run it in higher fps.

>>9695853
>the remakes are better because they run at higher framerate
>but it breaks boss fights
>well that's because it runs at higher framerate
I don't hate BP like schizos in itt but come on.

>>9695861
It brakes it because the Bluepoint ony creates new renderers for old games. If you want to blame anyone blame the original programer. Blupoint dosen't change games beyond new assets and renderers. Collisions, physics, etc are all on the original engines.

>>9695876
But they fixed timing issues in the PS4 version

>>9695890
IRC they finally got the source code for the game from japan studio or something.

>>9695916
To add to that in the ps3 version they had to emulate the ps2 original on one core and the rest do the rendering. On the ps4 the game runs the physics native.

>>9695759
The problem is they simply look like shit and there is no reason for graphics updates of good looking 6th gen or let alone 7th gen games

SotC looked incredible for 6th gen, the remake looks mediocre for 8th gen and like nothing special

>>9695606
You might have serious issues if you believe that

>>9695590
>When the tiny enemies are the only dangerous ones in a game about colossi you know you got a fundamental problem
If you mean the 11th, that's just a danger because of shit reasons like attacking you right when you recover and you can't do shit about it sometimes

>>9693031
Wat? It's literally anti exploration. Best example is the gate in the tower that's magically closed so you walked up all the way for nothing. It's just dead ends everywhere and nothingness

>>9693119
>elephant
Perhaps the best level design ever put in a game and SotC definitely had some influence

>>9695916
I think it's obvious they didn't play test their game properly. They even implemented trophies for that. They would have contacted Sony otherwise.

>>9695876
They obviously do change things, they added the orbs and the new sword that has new gameplay effects. They don't just change some models and textures, what are you talking about. They change literally everything from lighting to foliage to level design and the only thing they try to preserve 1 to 1 is the core gameplay. Surely preserving PS2 quirks is a bit silly though.

>>9696026
The village pic is the clearest. Left one is just blurry, the colors blend together in an unappealing way. The right one has shadows that pop out, sharp details, striking colors, etc.

>>9696124
>4 very interesting and unique dungeons (5 if we count DLC)
>each of them arguably as good as the ones seen in Majora's Mask
>everyone still somehow mad
If Nintendo read the fan criticisms on the internet like Sega they literally would not be able to understand what they are doing wrong

>>9696632
They weren't good. We've seen every gimmick they use in previous Zelda games.

>>9695916
No, Bluepoint just didn't test the PS3 version properly. They were later made aware of the problems & fixed them, but didn't release the fix because
>muh trophees
So 12 years later, we're stuck with a broken version of the game just so a handful of retarded trophy hunters from 2011 wouldn't be upset.

https://www.gamesradar.com/framerate-is-everything-why-upgrading-to-60fps-can-break-your-favorite-games/

>"Even we were once guilty of shipping a framerate-dependent bug that affected gameplay. In Shadow of the Colossus (from the Ico and Shadow of the Colossus HD Collection), we didn’t notice that a part of the game became slightly more difficult when the game ran at a stable framerate (30 fps in our PS3 version, often ~20 fps in the original PS2 version). This slight difficulty change reared its head against the third colossus when players challenged themselves to the Time Attack mode set to Hard difficulty. Our QA team was so good at playing the game that this subtle difference under these specific conditions didn’t affect them, so the bug went unnoticed.

>"[When the public got their hands on the remaster], the bug frustrated enough players who weren’t expert players like our QA team. Original gameplay on the PS2 was tuned based on the ~20 fps, and the original code didn’t properly deal with variable framerate for physics relating to the colossi shaking off the player. Once we were alerted to enough fans growing frustrated, we did identify and fix the problem. However, in the end a decision was made to not devalue the achievement of people who had managed to get the trophy under those difficult conditions, and so a patch with our fix was never released."

>>9692993
It doesn't have a problem with emptiness.

>>9696775
>Our QA team was so good at playing the game that this subtle difference under these specific conditions didn’t affect them, so the bug went unnoticed.
>This slight difficulty change
>This slight difficulty change
That's a bullshit argument. They would have easily noticed difference if they played PS2 version once. They are lying there is a huge difference when played side by side.

>>"[When the public got their hands on the remaster], the bug frustrated enough players who weren’t expert players like our QA team. Original gameplay on the PS2 was tuned based on the ~20 fps, and the original code didn’t properly deal with variable framerate for physics relating to the colossi shaking off the player. Once we were alerted to enough fans growing frustrated, we did identify and fix the problem. However, in the end a decision was made to not devalue the achievement of people who had managed to get the trophy under those difficult conditions, and so a patch with our fix was never released."
That sounds like another bullshit argument. If they really did that it speaks to their stupidity which can also be seen on their remake "improvements" I guess.

>>9696775
I remember there being an argument that the PAL version had the same issues. Is this true?

>>9696825
Slightly. As it performed slightly better than NTSC version it was also slightly harder.

>>9693097
>illiterate misunderstands basic idiom

>>9694551
What's up with that? Is it a bug? I only played the PS2 version but I've heard the problem is that the colossi shake you off more often in the PS3 release, which is supposedly related to the framerate improvements or something.
Would be cool if someone came out with a hack that fixes that, or maybe a texture pack for the PS2 version taken from PS3.

>>9696939
>you literally can't win
It appears to me that the PAL version is somewhere inbetween then? Not as hard as the PS3 one while running better than the PS2 NTSC one. Maybe it's the definitive version

>>9696939
>As it performed slightly better than NTSC version
Is the difference in performance actually noticeable?

>>9696962
They didn't change textures. Even if they did I doubt it would look better. PCSX2 at high res would probably look better as PS3 version is lacking some effects(not much but still). I think RPCS3 and PCSX2 still has trouble running it without disabling post processing.
>>9696972
Yes it's not as hard as PS3 version. PAL version also had other slight upgrades both NTSC US/JP versions are lacking. So it's the definitive PS2 version on that case as well. Also true for ICO (NTSC J version also has uppdates). Hopefully someone will eventually come up with a patch but I think emulation of it has to get better first.
>>9696987
It's been a while since I played it. I don't think it was that big of a deal. There are slight additions as I said. I'd recommend PAL version just for that.

>>9692993
Reddit: The Game

>>9696995
Does the PS3 Ico have any problems (aside from emulation issues)?

>>9697605
some art changes to fake extra detail - it renders the textures resized so they're smaller and don't show off how low res they actually are.

>>9696775
>However, in the end a decision was made to not devalue the achievement of people who had managed to get the trophy under those difficult conditions
>and so a patch with our fix was never released.
That's FUCKED up. That's that same shit excuse Nintendo uses to justify their 24/7 $60 price tags for current games.
>Oh, we don't want the early birds to feel like they're being PUNISHED for their early purchases by slashing the prices YEARS LATER!

>>9697605
No, it's pretty much identical aside from some slight lighting changes caused by upscaling but this is also the case when you play it on PCSX2 I think. It's barely noticeable