/vr/ - Retro Games

cool story. anyway

>posting something obvious as if it's insightful and worth dedicating a post to

But they're a lot cheaper, so... eh. I'll just end up emulating them when they eventually become unusable anyway.

>>9684469
>I think
Do you? Really?

This was a bad thread but not because of its point but because it was phrased poorly.

I should have just challenged everyone to find a defense for optical media outside of data storage. My mistake.

Guarantee OP would not have made this post if Nintendo used CD during the 90s.

>>9684481
Data storage makes up for all the shortcomings really. And loading times were rarely a problem. Neo Geo CD was awful in this regard, but many other consoles were not.

>>9684483
Unless they made a drive system that is resilient to age and breakdown it'd still be indefensible.

And you'd still be contending with the load times regardless.

>>9684485
The lack of damage resistance is still a huge bugbear of optical media. Only Blu-Rays seemed to have cracked the problem (and even then I've never really tested its limits, I've just been told BDs are better about handling scratching than older generations of optical media).

Defend N64 using cartridges first
>awful textures
>awful music and sounds
>awful fmvs is any
>limited ingame content

>>9684490
>And you'd still be contending with the load times regardless.
Any examples of loading times being such a problem that someone would trade game content, quality music and cutscenes for instant loading?

>>9684469
well, maybe you will be glad to hear that now discs are just used as installation devices

>>9684469

>>9684469
maybe i heard wrong, but isnt CD read speeds not that slow compared to cartridges, and it only appears slow because it's so much more data to read?
As in, a 700mb cartridge would be slower to read? Sort of proof in the Switch?

>>9684512
IT STILL TOOK THREE DISCS, THOUGH.

>>9684469
>more space
>cheaper to make
>better sound quality
>can be played in cd players
>easy to store
>higher quality in everything
op is a retard and disc rot is a meme

>>9684492
and they also use battery saves lmao

>>9684521
How many cartridges is that worth?

>>9684538
...

Shut up.

>>9684538
100000

>>9684469
Nintendo Switch provides plenty of good arguments as for why carts aren't the final solution you think they are.
First off, price. Switch carts cost a lot more to produce than PS4 discs, and additional capacity is even more expensive. Remember all those "This game requires a download and a microSD card" games?
This was even worse in the N64 days. Even the smallest N64 cart cost some twenty times more to produce than a PS1 disc. Multiply that by print runs in the hundreds of thousands and it gets real expensive.
Second, speed. Plenty of loading in those games. Even some PS5 games have loading times in them and the SSD in that ain't cheap.
With the introduction of CDs games got bigger way before either cart speeds or sizes could catch up.
As for reliability, I've had more cart slots die on me than disc drives. CDs age perfectly, of the thounsand that I personally own not a single one has disc rot. On the other hand I do own some dead carts with no visible damage of any kind, it happens.

>>9684534
>n64 battery saves
are these things in the carts or the controllers or both? i never had one, but it seems really dumb considering they had a slot for ram in the console and no slot for a memory card as far as i know

>>9684553
>are these things in the carts or the controllers or both?
both, depends on the game, some had a battery inside the card and some didn't
>no slot for a memory card as far as i know
there is one on the controller but the memory card also uses batteries.
I tell you the n64 is the most retarded console ever made

>>9684551
How the cart interfaces with the system plays a significant role in load times.

Ever since the DS cartridges were just glorified SD cards; SD cards are notorious for being slow as shit despite being solid-state, hell even slow laptop 5400rpm hard drives can run circles around them. The cartridges of old connect directly to the system bus and can be directly accessed by the CPU in most cases which can explain the near-instant load times.

>>9684578
The PS2 memory card interface is fast enough to act as a loading gate for games.

>>9684581
Mate, it's competing with a DVD drive. Almost anything beats a DVD drive.

>>9684594
It's slower than the dvd drive

>>9684605
Better than using the USB ports.

Though not as fast as the 1394 port, if your PS2 has one.

>>9684485
>Data storage
yeah, storage for all the videos, voice acting, licensed music and other bloat to cover up shallow, boring games
Discs were the death of gaming

>>9684490
Never once given a shit about load times.

>>9684521
That's fucking sick though.

>>9684618
but dude, the offspring! ya ya ya ya ya!

>>9684618
Explain how such cartridge-based system as N64 has a higher percentage of shallow, boring games then

>>9684627
huehuehuehuehue

>>9684631
It has no JRPGs so you're wrong

>>9684638
Quest 64

>>9684653
anon said rpgs

>>9684618
I have to assume that people who say this are completely incapable of enjoying anything which isn't an arcade game. If you looked at something like Oblivion and said that the voice acting there was bloat, I'd agree, but there's lots of games which made great use of it.

>>9684618
this is cope, and I'm sorry
https://youtu.be/qTlZQUnsSAQ
https://youtu.be/J-7IIIIlyLw
https://youtu.be/lol2z1aL5UA
https://youtu.be/z6c-K2nXYVk
the n64 was a mistake

>>9684945
I play with music off, don't care

>>9684976
thats not based, thats gay

>>9684985
your moms gay

>>9684469
>more space
>cheaper to manufacture, thus lowering COGS and allowing more and better games
such a backstep

We haven't had "carts" since the GBA anyway, and even that is arguable if the last cart system was actually the N64 and not the GBA. They are just "cards" nowadays, which function at a fundamentally different level. Carts actually connected directly to the system bus, mapped directly to memory, and because of this it was possible to have expansion hardware in the cart like so many SNES games did as well as have that "instant" loading since the data was being mapped directly to memory.

Modern "carts" are glorified SD cards, they aren't mapped to shit, they just load data from them no different than they would load data from any other storage medium, and systems like the DS, 3DS, and Switch all have loadtimes because the way they are accessing the game isn't much different from if there was an optical drive in there instead, just faster.

>>9684469
Ya but a lot of the games are actually good in comparison to carts

(for most genres)

>>9685038
DS cartridges could support additional chips

>>9685068
As far as I am aware only like 2-3 games ever added anything, and it was an IR sensor.

>>9684481
>I should have just challenged everyone to find a defense for optical media outside of data storage.

What's to defend. Data storage was one of the most vital factors at the time.

>>9685035
bet you'd like steam greenlight or itch io

>>9684512
I don't think it was any coincidence the airships/gardens in FF8 (the first FF made for the PlayStation from the beginning) were powered by huge spinning discs.

>>9684481
>outside of data storage
lower cost

>>9684512
Unbelievably beautiful game.

>>9685076
>>9685068
flashcarts can have additional CPU's

>>9684581
So is USB, according to you. You've already established you're ok with, slow loading and stuttering cut scenes.

>>9685641
Yes but that's internal processing just to make sure the cart can replicate a real cart correctly, not to add functionality to games like so many SNES games did. The CPU on the flashcart of those "card" based systems isn't adding additional functionality to the game for the system.

Yeah we got fucked hard. We got the technology to store way more data on carts just a year or two after we all switched to optical, it's so gay.

>>9686358
No we didn't. Solid-state storage was still in the couple of megs range during the PS1 and even PS2 era. We didn't start hitting 2GB SD cards until the later mid-00s, the PS2 could already do 8.5GB DVDs in 2000.

Even today, there were only about two Switch games ever released on 32GB carts even today, and those still can't compare to the 128GB max a Blu-Ray can hold, a format that debuted in 2006. Only reason we are STILL using Blu-Ray is because optical media for music and PC software is pretty much dead compared to digital/streaming and even for movies it's a fraction of what it used to be. Sony has had an optical format that holds in the Terrabytes for years in the enterprise market, they just have had zero reason to introduce it in the consumer market considering that Blu-Ray tech is still enough for 4K movies and 99% of even PS5 games, and how the vast majority of PCs no longer have optical drives.

Yes, 128GB NAND exists, but considering all that "mandatory download" nonsense Switch games do so they can cheap out with a 16GB, 8GB, or even smaller cart because it costs too much to spring for a larger cart, do you really think it's feasible for them to put games on 128GB+ cards?

>>9686348
It's one thing to be ignorant. But flaunting it like that is just embarrassing. There are many flash carts that add functionality to the system. Educate yourself.

>>9684618
I was about to refute this, but come to think of it
- videos: yeah, kinda. they could use in-engine scenes, and that's much cheaper in terms of storage.
- voice acting: agree. they're useless.
- licensed music: a bit dishonest putting the world "licensed" there, as music does often make a game that much better. then again most of the ones I think do used tracker and/or soundchip modules.
- other bloat: I guess textures and "included freebies", while it's not that important they do add value to the game, and they won't save a bad game from being bad anyway.

have to disagree with the statement "discs were the death of gaming", though, as the real death comes from the lack of innovation and creativity with more and more games simply made by following the established patters. the gamers themselves, mainly the change in demography are to blame for this. the bloat from most games nowadays comes from the engine itself, since they make use of a "general purpose" engine. not to mention they actually require bloated assets to work.

>>9684469
You seriously think this will make you fit in /v/ermin? Try harder next time.

>>9686348
Wrong.

discs are objectively better than cartridges.

>>9684469
of course it has, it's just way cheaper for the amount it stores, for a time it was faster and could store more audio files
but now games just install to drives and run way better

>>9685038
>which function at a fundamentally different leve
>Modern "carts" are glorified SD cards
mate, it's all flash memory, just because the method is different, doesn't change the operation

>>9686618
>>9686706
Notice how people like this never explain what is wrong, just insist the person they are arguing against is?

>>9686758
Yes it does, you think NES carts were flash memory? They mapped directly to the addressable memory space of the CPU. That's why you needed mapper chips for bigger games because the CPU can only map 40KB at a time (8KB of CHR ROM and 32KB or PRG ROM typically).

The spirit of Yamauchi lives on.

>>9684481
The laundry list of positives is too hard for you to spot? Are you retarded?
>reads OP
Yep.

>>9686375
First sentence is wrong. We had plenty of compactflash drives at 8gb by 2002. For photography and other uses.
Your whole argument can be summed up in "the drives would have cost hundreds per game" Because even 4gb drives were hundreds during the 6th gen.

>>9684581
On-paper they are, but sadly these things much use right now due to poor OPL compatibility.

>>9686864
*aren't much use right now

>>9684469
I've always felt this way, as a kid even going from cassettes to CDs felt like a downgrade. The fucking things are so fragile and huge, and these days you have to worry about the disc reading lasers shitting out on you.

>>9684469
If you wanted to do something very stupid you could mod a PS1 to take cartridges. Should not be too difficult with the devices like the X-station ODE available now. You'll just need to do a little bit of fabrication and soldering to make a cartridge slot that solders to the pins of the the micro SD slot. Then place a SD card inside your cartridge so it will make a connection when inserted.

>long loading times

But longer, high quality audio tracks.

Even on old ps1's with wrecked lenses, the music made THPS more bearable despite the loading times.

>>9686814
>First sentence is wrong. We had plenty of compactflash drives at 8gb by 2002. For photography and other uses.

I don't remember those coming in those capacities that early except for the ones that were basically mini-harddrives, but I didn't use CF much.

Regardless however, that's still less than a DVD could hold while costing as you said hundreds just for the media.

>>9686871
Wait, really? Going from a CASSETTE to a cd felt like a downgrade? Weren't those picky about having your volume levels set correctly, sensitive to magnets, easy to mangle, and took several to dozens of minutes to load?

>>9684469
But we've now moved from optical media to either magnetic storage or flash memory. Maybe your complaint was valid some 10 years ago but not anymore.

>>9684512
(>>9685621)
Unbelievably expensive and pre-rendered FMV cutscenes, you mean. They spruced up the presentation and nothing else.

>>9686776
>Notice how the grownups here never spoon feed other peoples babies
Yeah. So wierd amrite!

>>9686776
If the ROM's not stored in flash memory, what's it stored in?

>>9687226
Don't act like you're in the right here.

>>9687238
NES cartridges were MROM or sometimes EPROM
flash memory is a type of EEPROM

>>9687487

>>9687360
>Don't act like I'm not entitled to come here and bullshit and then demand that people educate me
No one's acting like that's how it is. That is the way it is. Apply yourself.

>>9687587
>you're wrong but you need to figure out why

How does that prove your point? That just sounds like someone saying shit to be contrarian from the person whose being addressed.

>>9687487
Wasn't EPROM generally just for development/testing purposes since it can be erased by sunlight? Every NES retail cart I ever saw was MROM, the only time I saw EPROM was in dev carts and prototypes.

>>9686981
Just being randomly angry makes you look insane

>>9687767
ad-hominem attacks are not arguments.

>>9687803
You got mad about FF7 and made an obviously wrong statement that no one agrees with

>>9686940
ps1 load times arent even long, that is just n64 cope.

>>9687591
>Why do you not feel the need to prove yourself to an ignorant child on the internet?
Same reason I shoo the pigeons in the park off the chess board instead of playing chess with them.

>>9684481
>I should have challenged everyone to find a defense for optical [DATA STORAGE] outside of data storage

>>9687226
>I come on discussion boards not to discuss things, but to posture and pretend I'm well versed in subjects I have zero knowledge of
retard

>>9684469
>obviously superior in main constraint on game design
>has periphery issues that wouldn't likely make themselves known until long after the gen has been over
I'll take a console maybe breaking down 10 years later over every piece of software made for it being gimped.

>>9688304
>I come on discussion boards to bullshit and then cry when I get called out for bullshitting

>>9684469
CDs were preferable to cartridges during the 90s and early 2000s just for how much more shit they could store. Now that we've moved on to an era where you just install the games you play anyway it doesn't matter on what games are stored.

>>9684492
And despite all that the N64 has all the defining games of the 5th generation.

>>9688832
Not if you're not a massive nintendo fanboy

>>9684469
consoles were never meant to "age well"

they're a disposable product for putting under a christmas tree and only need to last until you buy new disposable product

>>9688838
>best action-adventure
Zelda
>best platformer
Mario
>best fps
Goldeneye or Perfect Dark
>best kart racing game
Mario Kart
>best racing game
F-Zero X
>best shoot'em up
Star Fox
>best fighting game
Super Smash Bros.
>best party game
Mario Party

This is well documented, so youre either misinformed or a contrarian.

Aw, OP took of his shallow disguise, turns out it's just an n64 fanboy thread. Always seems like they're trying to cause fights huh? Easily the worst fanbase people have to deal with here.

>>9688847
>No MGS
>No FF7
>No GT2
>No Silent hill
>No symphony of the night
>Inferior port of RE2
>Pretending these games weren't defining titles of the 5th gen
>Implying the first smash bros was better than tekken 3
>Implying f-zero was better than wipeout
>Implying mario kart was better than CTR
>Implying anyone gives a shit about party games
The N64 had 3 gen defining games, OOT, Goldeneye and Mario64. Anything else is just cope.

>>9684492
The random-access nature of cartridges made it possible to use lots of pre-rendered sprites in Mario Kart 64

>>9688847
star fox 64 is one of my favorite games ever, but its a rail shooter not a schmup.
Smash bros is fun but you're delusional if you think its even close to the best fighting game
Also what about rpgs?
>>9688854
this

>>9688856
Just about every storage medium except for tape is random access.

>>9689009
CDs have seek time. Mario Kart 64's trick would not have been possible with optical media

>>9688808
>

>apart from data storage
yeah. nothing else matters

>>9684492
I won't defend n64 because it sucks but I will defend the 32x. It had the best version of mortal kombat 2 putting psx and Saturn to shame. 32x doom and virtua racer also smoked what Saturn got. I'm willing to bet 32x would have released a better version of Saturn daytona had it the chance.

>>9684527
>loading times in fighting games MID MATCH

>>9688847
>best Kart racing game
That would be Super Mario Kart but sure, Nintendo had the market on silly party games. I had a lot of fun with Mario kart 64 battle mode.
>fzero racing game
Lol hell no. Not even close.
>best shoot em up
Lylat Wars was a rail shooter and it wasn't even as good as Panzer Dragoon or space Harrier.
>Smash bros
Not a fighting game. I'm thinking your post was bait now. Oh well.

>>9689453
>That would be Super Mario Kart but sure
He's talking about specifically that gen. Although mario kart 64 wasn't even the best kart racer on 64, that goes to diddy kong racing

>>9684512
>Cigarette and a blindfold
What does this even mean

>>9684534
Don't most N64 games use SRAM? If a publisher was too cheap for SRAM they usually just told you to fuck off and buy a controller pack (which did use DRAM) instead of having their own DRAM in the cartridge.

>muh load times!
Just fastforward past it you retard

>>9691049
It means an execution by gunshot/firing squad, the blindfold and cigarette trope is typically from the WWII era. The blindfold was so the person being executed doesn't see it coming and the cigarette was as one last comfort, similar to the final mean we have today. Many soldiers even if they didn't smoke took up smoking during the war to relieve stress, it was seen as one final comfort for the person about to be executed and both it and the blindfold were to help relieve the massive stress/panic that would come from knowing you are about to be executed.

IIRC they were not mandatory and depending on the situation the person being executed might be allowed to reject them, I am pretty sure they were also in no way required to provide either of those to the person they were executing. It was more of a curtsey thing towards a person who was about to be killed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_by_firing_squad

>>9691142
A large chunk did, but I am not sure if I would say most. There was three main types of save mediums used on the cart, SRAM, EEPROM, and FlashROM. Only SRAM needed batteries.

The thing is though, the games that required a memory card, there were games that could also save to either the cart or a memory card (Blast Corps and Bomberman 64 among others) or games that could save some data to the cart but others required a memory card (Like the Ghost Data in Mario Kart 64) and the memory cards themselves were still SRAM and required a battery. A move I find incredibly stupid when their biggest competition at the time used memory cards that had non-volatile memory.

Also, you are thinking of FRAM, DRAM is still volatile just like SRAM.

Even with GPU RAM the enemies in games today are limited to only being alive when you are within a certain range. Ocarina of Time with the Running Man is more technically impressive than anything on consoles or PC nowadays. Imagine how many Hyrule Fields at high fidelity you could load if Nintendo went back to carts and Jumper paks today. Optical media was a mistake.

>>9684469
> Disregarding the issue at hand, everything else is moot

>>9684469
Optical media is rubbish

>>9684569
Only like 12 games use a battery to save and the controllers only use AAAs for the Rumble Pak.
It's retarded that memory cards use batteries though.

>>9684469
Well, it was the way to keep the $60 price, a $15+ fee from Nintendo for every cartridge(you had to buy your carts with the game from N*) wasn't acceptable.

>>9684469
>long load times
They're not that long and it's a good opportunity to drink tea
>the media itself is prone to damage and doesn't age well
My CDs still work without any problems, sounds like you treat your possessions poorly
Besides, it's very easy to backup CDs

>>9684481
I remember an interview with game devs (or console designers?) stating that the deciding factor to put a CD drive into a PlayStation wasn't really the storage, but very short production cycle of the CDs. You could burn and ship a batch of CDs to stores in just a few days, while it took months to do the same with cartridges. And this was important because you could easily scale, in case your game became a hit. The problem with cartridges was, that if a game became popular and sold out, you had to wait a lot of time for a new shipment of copies, and during that time the buzz around it could die off and it might become irrelevant. And since cartridges were expensive (they were basically a sneaky way to offset a part of console hardware cost onto the developers), game producers had to be very careful not to end up with a pile of unsold cartridges like ET, which was expected to be a hit, but it wasn't.

>>9692954

explains why ps1 is full of experiment broken shit, everyone trying to make a quit buck and paranoid about what the next fad would be. when you look at n64s classics they didnt need to worry about fags because they built up a long term reputation for quality which would spread by word of mouth and made it very easy to predict production numbers

>>9692954
I forgor to add - the reason delivering cartridges was so slow was not only because it required physical assembly and literal overseas shipment (if you wanted them cheap), but also something very relevant to what's happening today - chip shortages. Mainly memory chips shortages, but if your game utilized specialized chips, like the popular SuperFX (in starfox) it became even more difficult

>>9692957
I wonder, if that's the reason why FF7 became so popular and not FF6

>>9692957
>explains why ps1 is full of experiment broken shit
I mean, kinda? Investing in producing a game with a cartridge was way more risky. With CDs you could always scale down. So some studios released small, funky games one after another in case one of them became a hit.
Also, it explains why there were so many titles for PS - not just the junk/small games. More studios considered making games for PS since it wasn't such a risk for them

>>9692954
Sorry champ, but those "game devs (or console designers?)" were larping children. Commercial games weren't burned. Can you imagine how long that would take, burning at the lowest speed and all. Mastering, tooling up for, and beginning production of a PS1 CD, for example, took quite a while as well.

>>9693234
>Commercial games weren't burned
You're nitpicking too much. I meant the mastering and pressing process, but I couldn't find the proper word.
>took quite a while as well.
Well, they claimed it took a few days

>>9684469
>talking about optical media in the present tense

Millennials fr don't even realise how old they are at this point

>>9693560
no cap

the main defense of cartridges over discs is shelf life, but this is only a point for archivists. cartridges easily last a century but CDs last at best two or three decades. I got rid of all of my old disc games recently for this reason.

we do have m-discs now though.

>>9684613
Problem with the Firewire port is that all PS2s that have it also have the IDE interface which is even faster.

>>9693570
>but CDs last at best two or three decades. I got rid of all of my old disc games recently for this reason.

You're an idiot, professionally pressed CDs last minimum 75 years unless you treated them like shit, most are expected to last over a century. All of my retail disks still read just fine. It's burned cds that are expected to die in a few decades, especially cheap ones, not professionally pressed ones.

>>9694320
I have only seen a Firewire port on a PS2 and the back of a Sony TV and I have no idea what the fuck it's supposed to be used for.

>>9695096
Some games let you play local multiplayer on multiple consoles when you connect them using this port. Remember that the original PS2 models didn't have ethernet ports.
It was also commonly used in early digital cameras for connecting them to PCs, I remember one of my relatives using it for that purpose. It was probably faster than USB at the time.

>>9695164
Now that you mention it I guess I did see system link in manuals but it's been forever so I forgot about it.

apart from the monumental advantage that was worth sacrificing everything else for, yeah optical storage was pretty pointless they should have known better.

>>9684469
Modern silicon storage has made disc storage completely obsolete.
I don't know why they don't sell 4K HDR movies on cards these days. Bluray can't really compete.

>>9695321
Because you will own nothing and be happy. Subscription services will replace all manners of ownership permanently.

>>9695321
because stamping a blu ray still costs like a dollar for 50GB of storage and no one wants to come up with a new format just for the last 7 physical movie collection hold outs

>>9695397
>the last 7 physical movie collection hold outs
Oh come on, it's 8 now. I've got into UHD BDs just a few months ago.
On a serious note, physical wins every time when stacked against streaming in terms of quality. Only Apple TV and Bravia Core stand a chance (though I haven't tested the latter myself), everything else is a steaming pile of shit. But I guess normalfags love eating shit and have made for us a really shitty future.

>>9684469
I could fit 20 N64 games on a Playstation disc for a tenth of the price of a cartridge. Carts may be better, when it comes to mass dissemination of video games, a medium like the CD is far better for replication.

>>9695459
The N64's library is only like 4gb total per region, you could fit it on as many discs as the Namco Museum Collection

>>9695490
And you could fit all the games worth playing on that console in under 100MB.

>>9684518
Psx could only load like a few mb into ram anyway.

Real difference was that for these older cart systems the cart was literally expanded system memory that the system could directly read. The switch on the other hand cannot (just like any disc based system) and needs to load its data into ram first before it can use it.

>>9688854
Too much cope here

People cant understand that not everyone likes the same thing?

I myself cannot imagine how anyone likes GT(2) but I'm not going into details since I dislike sim racers in general.

Only deluded fanboys makes posts like these where they claim one system crushes whatever another system does.

Just consider, if your view was objectively true then why is there so much love for the other guys?

>>9695521
Hey reddit spacing retard. Why did you decide to single out my post when he was the one that originally made the claim the N64 had "every gen defining game"?
>Only deluded fanboys makes posts like these where they claim one system crushes whatever another system does.
I didn't make that claim did I though? He did. Also anyone that claims everything is subjective and just a matter of taste are cringe faggots too scared of taking a position. Intellectual cowards if you will.

>>9693353
>You're nitpicking too much
You're coping too much.
>I couldn't find the proper word.
That's because you were just spewing madeup bullshit.
>they claimed
It doesn't matter what your imaginary "game devs (or console designers?)" said. In fact it doesn't matter what real ones said, about things that our outside their responsibilities and areas of expertise. No. You could not master, produce, package and ship CDs to stores in just a few days. inb4 cope about how if you had everything and everyone ready and standing around waiting to work on only this 24/7 you could totally do it.
What did you do? Work out how long it would take to burn a disc at the slowest speed and ship it amazon prime. lmfao.

>>9695542
>>9695542
>Hey reddit spacing retard.
Projecting much? Fuck off with your reddit comment.
Also I missed most of this thread and thats just (one of) the cope posts I ran across. Good if you feel personally offended though

>Also anyone that claims everything is subjective and just a matter of taste are cringe faggots too scared of taking a position.
There is something like taking a position (FF7 is better than OOT) and just complete shitposting (system x is completely superior to y)

>>9695380
That's fine. I unironically enjoy netflix.

>>9695657
Good for you retard

>>9695657
Biggest problem is savedata.
Playing retro via subscription is not necessarily bad, but what happens to your save data after a while?
I have that problem with Nintendo in general, there have been a lot of ways so far to get these old games (wii virtual console, classics and now switch online) but they are all in isolated environments where you cannot backup any saves

>>9694320
Unless you have a 10000 PS2 with the weird PCMCIA slot lol.

>>9695653
>Projecting much?
No you retarded newfag, that's literally what you were doing
>Also I missed most of this thread
read next time, smoothbrain
>There is something like taking a position (FF7 is better than OOT) and just complete shitposting (system x is completely superior to y)
That was the position the person I responded to took, you idiot.

>>9685038
>We haven't had "carts" since the GBA anyway, and even that is arguable if the last cart system was actually the N64 and not the GBA.
It's the other way around. GBA cartridges are memory mapped and operate quite quickly, faster than main RAM even.
N64 cartridges are technically memory mapped but about 100x slower than the system so games would just copy what they needed to RAM like modern flash storage.

>>9695710
Not him but
>retarded newfag
>Smoothbrain

Jesus fuck, and you called him a reddit fag? Just kill yourself and get it over with.

>>9695728
I think you got that in reverse. N64 is infamous for having cartridge access being faster than RAM access.

>>9695760
No, I got what I said correct. http://n64devkit.square7.ch/pro-man/pro03/03-07.htm
PI = cartridge bus.
I'm not sure where this myth comes from - possibly confusion over the difference between latency and bandwidth.

>>9695760
Then explain the existence of the Expansion Pak. If devs could use the cart ROM like RAM then there would be no such need of the 8MB (or even 4MB) of RAM.

>>9692954
>>9692964
That would explain why N64 had such a small library

>>9695752
You can fuck off back there too faggot

>>9695760
Mate, code has to be loaded into RAM in order to be executed...

>>9695871
Not with memory-mapped ROM. Assuming it's fast enough.

>>9695903
>Not with memory-mapped ROM.
Whether you can execute that or not varies from architecture to architecture.

>>9684505
Video game music was better and more unique when it had to be built on traditional sound chips. And FMVs ruined gaming. So yeah, I'll take the zero loading time please.

>>9688847
dude i don't want to start a flamewar but no one gives a shit about super smash bros outside north america. hell even zelda's reach is overstated on 4chan, that game was outsold by fucking tomb raider

>>9695903
Which invariably it won't be

>>9695096
Firewire is to USB 2.0 like how Thunderbolt is to USB-C 20gbps. It's an alternative but superior port, and all it achieved was getting the USB consortium up its asses and release a newer, better USB version. Prior to Firewire, USB was this 1.5mbps port meant for mouse and keyboard. Firewire offered significantly higher speeds that made it suitable for connecting external drives, or cameras, etc. Then they made USB 2.0 which offered a max speed ot 500mbps (I think) and everyone quickly forgot about Firewire.

>>9695912
>hell even zelda's reach is overstated on 4chan
Truth. idk why internet millennials deem OoT an obvious contender for "best video game ever made", anybody who's played other games even on the same platform would make much better nominations

>>9695914
Not on N64, but most /vr/ platforms do. Basically every cartridge based platform before the N64 executed from ROM.

>>9695929
Proof?

>>9695991
If you want a non-technical demonstration, look at the difference between FastROM and SlowROM on the SNES.
https://github.com/VitorVilela7/fastrom
>FastROM allows the SNES CPU read data and opcodes from the ROM 33.58% faster compared to SlowROM.
>Depending on the game, FastROM will make the game run about 10%-33% faster compared to the original SlowROM version.
This statement confirms that the SNES executes from ROM. The result of using faster ROM is not just quicker loading but less slowdown, because the code is running faster.

If you want a technical example, just run any ROM in your favourite debugging emulator, break at a random time, and see where your program counter is. Most of the time it'll be in ROM.

>>9695991
You will immediately cease and not continue to access the site if you are under the age of 18.

>>9695089
cope. go check your old PS1 collection. a quarter of them won't work.

>>9696204
Lol, LOL!!!

>>9695164
>>9695186
>>9695096
>>9695923
Firewire had reliable data delivery where USB didn't until 3.2. When you were transferring video from a miniDV tape you couldn't buffer and wait for windows to do whatever shit it felt like instead of processing the incoming data because you can't easily have the tape wind back and try again. Firewire could transfer at 400mbit/s all day with no dropouts by design whereas USB2 relied on buffering and retransmits to operate and so even with the best will in the world it could NEVER sustain 400mbit/s (the 480mbit/s headline rate was including encoding overhead, that wasn't all usable data.) So it was naturally very very useful for synchronising game state between multiple PS2s. Whereas over ethernet your game has to do the complex and non-deterministic task of projecting forward the actions of other players and then correcting when new data comes in, firewire based games could literally just send controller input every frame and not worry about it making it infinitely easier.
It was rare to see it used as most games were never built for multi-player to start with, and if they were they usually came from a PC codebase where all the work to deal with unreliable networks was already done in some fashion.

>>9696204
I literally just ripped my PS1 collection a few months ago just fine, they still work perfectly in my PS1 as well.

>>9695773
Not if you need ram (eg to keep track of all the events in majoras mask) or if you want to use compressed data on cart which needs to be unpacked first before it can be used.
Some games like indy jones did stream data directly from cart without loading it into ram first.