/vr/ - Retro Games

>>9681612
Search action >>> metroidvania >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2d platformer

I see "Nintendo", "Super Famicom", "Super Metroid", and "SHVC-RI". Not seeing any genre labels.

its a castletroid

it says akushon geimu not action game...

Metroidvania implies Metroid + Castlevania

Thus Super Metroid isn't a Metroidvania because it lacks the RPG elements of the -Vania part

It’s action adventure like Zelda.

>>9681612
Nips have a completely different naming convention for genres, they don't use the metroidvania. They also call VNs adventure games, strategy simulation and tactics simulation RPG.

>>9681612
It's actually called Willyvania, as Jet Set Willy invented adventure sidescroller gameplay years before Metroid came out.

>>9681696
Also it's weird to me how weebs never picked up Japanese naming conventions for genres. You'd think the kind of person who plays dating sims in Japanese would be exactly the kind of person to call them renai simulation games, but somehow that's not the case. You'd think fighting game autists would cling to the term kakutou because it sounds cool but they don't. And rhythm games isn't even a good name for a genre, otoge is much more pleasing to say and yet nobody uses it. I say weebs aren't weeb enough
Also I just put "otoge" into wikipedia and it redirected me to otome games which just shows you how low level most weebs are. Sad

>>9681612
When Nintendo says action game they just mean it's not a puzzle or RPG

>>9681698
Scrolling is required for the whole "sidescrolling" thing.

I think all genre names that directly reference the prime example of its genre are fundamentally flawed.
Remember how it was "Doom clones"? That sounded retarded, so it became "first-person shooters". Something similar should happen for "metroidvanias". Personally, I am fond of "adventure platformers" as an alternative. "Roguelikes" needs to be changed too, but there's nothing concise/brief enough to adequately describe them. "Procedurally generated permadeath dungeons" doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.

>>9681612
Why would anyone call Metroid games a Metroidvania? Games that share elements of both are called that. Metroid barely has platforming and classic Castlevania games are basically just linear platforming

>>9681847
>Metroid barely has platforming

>>9681847
>Metroid barely has platforming

>>9681632
In grey on the top left corner of the artwork.

>>9681696
VNs are adventure in the same way games like Zork or King's quest are

>>9681709
Because people in the west don't do the "first syllable of the first two words in the title" abbreviations, because we have letters.
Otoge = otome game
They extra two syllables aren't that hard.

>>9681612
dumbass, metroidvania simply means you collect items/abilities that let you progress further in an open world. action isn't as descriptive.

>>9681709
Considering how annoying videogame genre naming conventions can get, reading you ironizing on 100% direct translations makes me want to bash your head in with a hammer.

>>9681664
It was actually created to talk about Iga's games to compare them with classicvania. It's actually Castlevania + Metroid, and that's why you could say Metroid isn't really a Metroidvania.

>>9681612
must be a mistake, where's the action in super slogfest?

>>9681803
Willy 2 adds scrolling and still beat Metroid by a year. Keep coping, Nincel; Brits won.

>>9681709
Because all the true weebs are long gone and in their place is retard faggots who give to eGirls.

Metroidvania is one of the most damned faggy things i've ever heard and I blame it for subconciously being the reason I stayed away from both franchises. Way to go gaymers

>>9682261
You’re welcome.

>NOOO STOP MAKING UP NEW WORDS YOU MUST ONLY USE PREVIOUSLY-ESTABLISHED WORDS
this nigga deadass tryin' to police our language baka on god fr fr

>>9682261
>one less autist in our community
Good.

>>9681860
Platforming in the sense that being bad at platforming punishes you. The platforming in Metroid is mostly just a means to get from A to B, similar to a ladder, but not a challenge in of itself

how did “shitty maze with gear upgrades” not catch on as the genre name. really makes you think.

Castlemania

>>9681612
It's called metroidvania and everyone in the world will keep calling it metroivania, but now with 25% more spite against OP.

>>9681612
Slopvania

mazeroids

>>9684000
There are occasional platforming challenges, in that if you fall down you don't proceed and have to try again until you succeed.

They're not limited to strictly platforming, you have grapple hook challenges, wall jumping challenges, shinespark puzzles, etc.
The design of these are actually somewhat basic in Super Metrod compared to the later GBA titles, which have some significantly challenging shinespark puzzles.

>>9684000
>punishes
Your punishment is having to go back and redo the platforming. Platforming challenge comes from more then just megaman spikes

>>9684000
Sometimes you fuck up and fall off or didn't reach what you were jumping for, sometimes your timing wasn't right, and sometimes an enemy pushes you off. You don't need to be killed or even injured as a consequence of failing to platform, not every situation is life and death.
Do it again.

>>9681630
You deserve a fate worse than death.

>>9681612
I call this kind of thread Retardvanias
Retard as in OP is a retard, and vania because something else, but OP also has schizophrenia

>>9681612
"Metroidvania" was coined as a derogatory term for Castlevania games that weren't linear like 1, 3, and 4.
A Metroid game cannot be metroidvania, because it was Metroid to begin with.

>>9686553
i feel some groups of people just really like the term "metroidvania" because it conflates two popular retro franchises and using it makes them seem more knowledgeable, so they use it as much as possible

>>9681612
1: The term metroidvania didn't exist when Super Metroid was released
2: The term metroidvania caught on despite the people originally coining it also hating the term. So much so thar we will never know who is responding because each blames the other.
3: genre names are all stupid if you delve into them enough, but metroidvania describes a very specific kind of exploration platformer and that's why it stuck and Super Metroid gets referred to as one posthumously.

People really just have a hard time properly explaining the distinctiveness in having level design more interconnected with progression gated by your abilities than your traditional platformer.

I hate the term "Metroidvania" but I get why it's used, it's easier to let others immediately know what you are talking about.

>>9681845
I remember when games of this type were called "arcade adventures".

Its like "Souls-like" where instead of being a genre its just a quick way to compare it to another game, which is dumb because in both instances the usage begins to expand beyond what the term was originally to compare from the game and becomes pretty much meaningless. Like how dumb is it that "Metroidvania" doesn't accurately describe a majority of the Castlevania series and some of the most popular Metroid games (Prime). Then I see tags on steam for "Metroidvania" games for shit that just happens to have a map, or even just similar genre aspects like vampires or bio-punk aesthetics. Hell you could argue that both "Metroidvania" & "Souls-like" could be lumped into the "Zelda II-type" game genre. Punishing combat? Sprawling Dungeons? Exploration-based power-ups? New Game Plus? Experience that is lost if you die before using it? All of this makes a game a Zelda II-type game.

>>9689012
>I hate the term "Metroidvania" but I get why it's used, it's easier to let others immediately know what you are talking about.
Find me a single person on Earth who has never played a video game before in their life who can hear the term "Metroidvania" and know what the fuck you're talking about. Other properly named genres like "First Person Shooters" on the other hand? Yes they will have a general idea what those games are about, shooting things in first person. Terms like "Doom clone" died out for a reason. "Search Action" is a much more logical and fitting term.

Think of movie genres as well. Drama, Comedy, Western, etc, all give you a very quick and concise idea of what the movie is about. Imagine if every single action movie was referred to as a "SchwarzeneggerStallone-Like". That's how fucking retarded Metroidvania is. "Search Action" is the proper term for this genre.

>>9689306
100% this. Metroidvania is only an intuitive genre name for people who are already familiar with both Metroid and SotN or already familiar with the term Metroidvania for some other reason. Anyone who thinks Metroidvania is an intuitive term lacks self-awareness and empathy to an autistic degree and assumes everyone has the same knowledge as themselves.

>>9689306
Beat em up and fighter. Which one is a scrolling punching kicking game and which is an arena based versus punching kicking game.

If you tell someone who has never seen video games that they are about to play a "puzzle game" do you really think they would imagine Tetris?

Why is Final Fantasy a "role-playing game" while Metal Gear Solid is action-adventure? To an outsider do you play more of a role in Final Fantasy than Metal Gear?

Not to defend metroidvania, but almost no video game genres make real sense.

>>9689345
>Why is Final Fantasy a "role-playing game" while Metal Gear Solid is action-adventure?
Because early FF is explicitly based on DnD and MGS is meant to be an interactive action movie, hence the adventure part. Easy!

>>9689345
>Metal Gear Solid is action-adventure
I'd call it a stealth action game.

>>9689345
Not that anon, but...
>Beat em up and fighter. Which one is a scrolling punching kicking game and which is an arena based versus punching kicking game.
I like the term "tournament fighter" for the latter genre. I think with that distinction the difference is very clear, as "tournament fighter" conjures a mental image of structured 1-on-1 fights while "beat em up" conjures a mental image of, well, just beating people up in a much less organized way.
>If you tell someone who has never seen video games that they are about to play a "puzzle game" do you really think they would imagine Tetris?
Tetris is an "action puzzle" game, or even commonly called a "falling block" game which has become a genre unto itself due to the popularity of Tetris. Again, I think both of these terms are pretty straightforward.
>Why is Final Fantasy a "role-playing game" while Metal Gear Solid is action-adventure?
Final Fantasy takes after pen and paper RPGs and as such is part of a genre named in a similar way. Metal Gear Solid isn't an "action-adventure" game, I'd call it a "stealth action" game.
>Not to defend metroidvania, but almost no video game genres make real sense.
You're just not approaching them correctly. Better terms exist, you're just not using them.

>>9689306
Your fucking retarded though because if I said "Search Action" to anyone it wouldn't tell them anything about the genre. Metal Gear Solid, Chrono Trigger, Pokemon, Banjo Kazooie, and Legend of Zelda all have searching & action. All genre names require some kind of precursor knowledge, otherwise it'd be very easy to say Metroid is a Dungeon Crawler and Legend of Zelda is a JRPG.

>>9689306
>>9689430
Exploration Platformer > Search Action

>>9689353
>Find me a single person on Earth who has never played a video game before in their life...
...who is suppose to know...
>...early FF is explicitly based on DnD and MGS is meant to be an interactive action movie

Side-scrolling Action-Adventure

>>9689438
I mean that makes more sense but still describes stuff like Banjo Kazooie. I think "Metroidvania" gets thrown around a lot, but its still useful. That's just how language works. Rogue-Like is still an acceptable term as far as I know. Let's just be honest, isn't the first thing most people do when they wanna get someone into a game is compare it to a more well known game?

>>9689441
So Zelda II, Final Fight, and Yoshi's Island?

>>9689440
If a DnD fan played FF1 and didn't pick up on all the obvious references, I'd have to assume they're some kind of idiot.

>>9689458
Yea of course but that comes with precursors game knowledge, pretty much all vidya genres are not as self-explanatory as some people here are claiming. "First Person" & "Third Person" being in reference to camera POV isn't something people know intuitively know without having played games. Action, Exploration, & Adventure are very broad terms that could really describe all games unless you already knew why they aren't used interchangbly. Without having played DnD or some other tabletop, Role-Playing doesn't just intuitively let people know the game will have leveling, class & party systems, etc. A lot of this discussion is kinda tainted by the Curse of Knowledge, that people can't possibly think of what it was like before they knew what is well-known and obvious to them now. I know if I tried to tell my mom a game was a "metroidvania" vs a "exploration platformer" she'd still be just as lost.

>>9689012
I despise the term "Metroidvania" because it's an outright fucking lie 99%
>hear game is a metroidvania
>expect to have elements of both games
>99.99% it only has the Metroid progression and exploration without SOTN's lite RPG elements and loot drops
Fucking cum guzzlers. Call it a Metroid-like or even a Jet Set Willy Walker if you aren't putting anything from the Vania part and stop wasting my time.

>>9689379
>I like the term "tournament fighter" for the latter genre
That's nice. No one else cares or recognizes that as a thing.

>Tetris is an "action puzzle" game, or even commonly called a "falling block"

Nice ner zoomed terms you're brining up. Kinda proves the point...

>Final Fantasy takes after pen and paper RPGs
Which the person we are talking about would not understand. Is any of this sinking in yet?

Metroidvania is a stupid term, bit it's on par with the others. This isn't a defense of the term Metroidvania, it's pointing out that almost non genre names really make sense if you are unfamiliar with the culture.

If you have a better term for those kinds of games then be my guest and try to spread them. But given how quick the term caught on and to the point that the people charged with coining it always try to say they didn't makes me think you have a tough debate to make.

>>9689345
Final Fantasy is not a "role-playing game", but a "console role-playing game", a console game that plays like a (tabletop) role-playing game.
And role-playing games are called that because each player plays a defined role as opposed to a huge army, like in war games.

It's not really that complicated, as long as you get what the words are supposed to mean.

>>9689452
>Final Fight, and Yoshi's Island
those are action games, they are missing the "adventure" part, they are structured based on levels, there's no real backtracking, upgrades to discover and the world isn't interconnected, game structure and the way the game handles progress makes them intrinsecally different from adventure games
>Zelda II
it's sort of an hybrid, the adventure/exploration part is top-down but the action is sidescrolling, and when you look at the action alone, it's pretty damn close to Metroid, specially in the Temples where you also do exploration from a lateral perspective

>>9681612
It's an exploration physics based 2D platformer collectathon progressing action-puzzle vidcom

>>9689449
>I mean that makes more sense but still describes stuff like Banjo Kazooie.
That's because Metroidvania also can describe stuff like Banjo-Kazooie.

>>9689525
>No one else cares or recognizes that as a thing.
I didn't invent the term, it was somewhat common like 15 years ago. Besides, people also don't generally recognize "Search Action" so it's rather beside the point when we're talking about improving genre names, isn't it?
>Nice ner zoomed terms you're brining up.
Again, these are terms that have been used for decades. Falling block games have been a sub-genre since the late 90's.
>Which the person we are talking about would not understand. Is any of this sinking in yet?
It's a quicker explanation than Metroidvania. "Video game roleplaying games take their name from tabletop roleplaying games," versus having to give an entire mini history lesson on what Metroid and Castlevania are and why their gameplay inspired a genre name.
>Metroidvania is a stupid term, bit it's on par with the others.
No, it's far worse and you're stretching hard to insist it's not. The whole "Won't people be confused about what PLAYING a ROLE entails" thing is evidence of disingenuous stretching.
>If you have a better term for those kinds of games then be my guest and try to spread them.
I will.

>>9689537
You know that because you already know the term for table top games. The point of those examples was replying to the last post. I could have said Wizardry or Ultima, it would be the same.

>>9689379
Way to completely miss the point you retard.

>>9690109
The point is that he's stretching so far to insist that video game genres are completely inscrutable that he uses "You PLAY a ROLE in Metal Gear Solid!" as an actual unironic argument, which is absolutely retarded. It would be like if I said, "Why is this movie called a Drama? It's not taking place in a high school drama class! See? Movie genres are IMPOSSIBLE to understand!!!"

The genre is called Willybuster because Jet Set Willy was the first non-linear platformer and Dragon Buster was the first non-linear platformer to utilise RPG elements.

>>9690116
I was replying to this >>9689306 who was talking about someone who had no experience with video games wouldn't get the term metroidvania. I was simply pointing out that even though it is a stupid term, really most video game genre names would make no sense to outsiders.

Of course we know why Final Fantasy is and RPG and Metal Gear isn't, but that's because we know the terms, what they mean and where they come from. To an outsider, RPG is equallybad at describing the kind of game as metroidvania.

Also keep in mind that the term metroidvania caught on despite almost no one actually liking it. Hell, we don't even know who came up with it because the two people responsible, Jeremy Parish and Scott Sharkey have both blamed the other for saying it and neither likes it. Video game genre names are stupid, but that just is what it is.

>>9689449
>Rogue-Like is still an acceptable term as far as I know. Let's just be honest, isn't the first thing most people do when they wanna get someone into a game is compare it to a more well known game?
I'm willing to bet 99.9999% of people who play (or make, for that matter) roguelikes have never touched the original Rogue.

>>9690687
Modern roguelites probably, roguelikes you are wrong.

>>9689520
I usually just say "it's like Metroid" or "Metroid-like"

>>9691590
If you describe SotN and SotN-likes as Metroid-likes then you deserve the rope.

>>9691603
They literally are though lmao, get off IGA's dick.

>>9691608
>RPG mechanics
>random loot
>slow movement
>long flat hallways everywhere
>heavy combat focus
>melee
>enemies designed to be fought every time instead of being obstacles you can avoid
Castlevania plays nothing like Metroid. The only things they have in common is that they're both open world games with the same style of in-game map, Castlevania takes everything good about Metroid and replaces it with something worse.

>>9691625
Yeah metroidvania is specifically open platformers with rpg elements. Super Metroid itself isn't really part of the genre, it's a game that inspired the genre.

>>9681942
this, "metroidvania" was coined to describe castlevania games with metroid-style gameplay. It was never intended as a catch-all to describe metroid-style games in general.

>>9691702
The problem is it wasn't coined with any real intention, it was just a silly term that developed a life of it's own and now we're stuck with it.

It's funny too cause Iga tried to get the term zeldavania going because he meant SotN to be like CV mixed with Zelda, but I guess he didn't realize that Metroid is pretty much Zelda gameplay in side scrolling form.

>>9692096
>The problem is it wasn't coined with any real intention
It was coined with the intention of separating Igavania from Classicvania in a derogatory way. "This isn't Castlevania, it's METROIDvania!" but then the style got popular and fans took the insult and turned it into a genre name.

>>9681612
Most action games aren't set in a single interconnected world that players can take multiple routes through and acquire items, fight bosses etc. in several different orders. That's a feature worth noting in the genre name.

That said Metroidvania is kind of an ugly name, and I think we could do with different names for different sorts of Metroidvanias. Some of them might have you going back and forth all over the map to unlock new items and areas, but their progression is entirely linear. Honestly I've never understood the point of this kind of game, I mean they might have good platforming or action or whatever, but if they're linear then why not just make them a straightforward progression from level 1 to level 2, level 3, and so on? It'd be nice if we had a term to distinguish these games from actually non-linear games like Super Metroid.

>>9693447
It literally wasn't though. Jeremy Parish used it in an article about SotN that wasn't derogatory but meant to be a little tounge in cheek but it caught on all over. Later he blamed Scott Sharkey for coming up with it and him thinking it was silly, but Sharkey who also hates the term never admitted to it publicly. It's just a dumb term that happened to catch on because it happened to click with an emerging genre.

>>9693941
>non-linear games like Super Metroid
I have some bad news for you, anon... Super Metroid is actually a linear game in disguise. Sure, there are multiple paths you can take at certain points, but only one of those paths is correct and the others are dead ends. There are even 2 points in the game that explicitly lock you out from backtracking to force you on the singular path forward. Metroid 1 is a truly non-linear game once you get 1 missile expansion and the bombs, but Super Metroid is quite linear for most of the game. The part where it "opens up" after you ascend the Red Tower just gives you the opportunity to backtrack for optional upgrades while the only way to actually progress is through the Wrecked Ship to Maridia, then to Lower Norfair, then to Tourian once you beat Ridley. Unless you use advanced tricks and/or glitches that no one would ever know on their first time through there is only one order to go through all the areas and bosses of the game.

Of course it's not a metroidvania, it's a Metroid game. Metroidvanias are a thing, though.

>>9694073
>Unless you use advanced tricks and/or glitches that no one would ever know on their first time through there is only one order to go through all the areas and bosses of the game.
Yeah I know full well there's an "intended" route that virtually all players will go down on their first playthrough, and I'll admit I've never deviated much from it, but the fact remains it IS possible to break out of the rails, at least partly. Players aren't likely to know about things like walljumping, bomb jumping or shine sparking initially, but if they do then they can be used to reach areas and grab items before they're "supposed" to, and these aren't glitches.

From what I recall of watching speedruns I'm fairly certain it is possible to do things out of order without glitches being a hard requirement, although they might enable you to do it faster. It's honestly a pretty unique feature, besides Zero Mission I can't think of any other games that work this way.

>>9690107
That's like saying the term "baseball game" only make sense if you know what baseball is. CRPGs are named after the tabletop games they're based on, and the tabletop games have that name because it actually IS a good description of what they're like.

For me it's action game XSIPER METROM for the Coper Famicoco

>>9681612
Back in the day we'd call this an 'arcade adventure'

>>9690035
Banjo has the right upgrade system but the wrong level design

>>9689039
>>9696584
Based

>>9681860
that guy clearly never even got to the metroid 1 escape room in sm because holy shit that's a lotta platforming, unless you wallclimb like a sane person with motor functions

Open World Sidescroller. Done.

>>9689039
>>9696584
>>9696605
fyi the term "arcade adventure" means that it's a mix of (text) adventure gameplay and reaction/timing/presicion-based gameplay, which was just referred to as "arcade-style" back in the day. These were the two big separate types of computer games at the time.

>>9696809
You're half right. The arcade part of the term is derived from action-based gameplay, the adventure part refers to the fact that it has a strong explorative aspect.