/vr/ - Retro Games

>>9656503
Censorship of any kind is a no go for me, I dont care if you can mod it out or personally agree with the politics that forced the change. Also most of these remakes just copy mods that fans have already made so you’re paying them for nothing but the changes for a “modern audience”.

>>9656503
>but you won't be able to say you've beaten the original

Did you have a present father during your development?
Why do you feel like you have to prove yourself to grognards online? If the remaster looks and plays better, then play it and call it a day.

>>9656503
I dont think anyone really cares if you beat the original FF8. it's not like it's an action arcade game or anything.

>>9656513
I've played both. A lot. If anything was censored it was so innocuous and irrelevant it had no bearing. I do agree that censorship is terrible, but I'm going to need the example anon. Also, I just beat my personal best of beating Ultima weapon at level 13, and beating omega at 21. I might load up my other file and go beat Omega at 13 as well. Just depends.

>>9656513
Why do you assume censorship? Remasters have existed for a long time, old games had remasters on GBA and PS1 way before any censorship got popular.

>>9656514
Is that why you assume people prefer to play originals? I think it's because they want to know the history of the genre or the series. But you went for "prove yourself to a father figure" instead. Interesting

>>9656532
Tell me more about these "people" who prefer originals. Most remasters make originals completely obsolete and there's no reason to go back unless it's a game like FF7 or RE2.

>>9656537
>Tell me more about these "people" who prefer originals
I think a lot of them tend to be on the /vr/ board of 4channel.org and they seem to actually prefer old games to new ones. Very strange

>>9656530
>>9656532
It’s very mild but I don’t want to support it, just the usual adding clothes to female models and changing “problematic” lines here and there.

>>9656537
>Most remasters make originals completely obsolete
I can't think of a single one that makes originals obsolete. No matter what you change, you end up changing art direction with it, or game pacing. Even in the case of FF8 a lot of people prefer the more realistic look of PS1 models. And in the case of FF10 I myself can't stand the updated models. You can't just make a classic game obsolete with shiny new graphics

>>9656540
Sarcastic nignug go back to plebbit.

Is having to mod the game so the world map isn't completely fucked graphically a QoL feature

>>9656503
Who cares what people here think about whether you've beaten the game

Why did they use his Dissidia design?

>>9656770
i don't see the difference

>>9656503
Play the game to enjoy the game not to get some kind of nerd cred that doesn't matter in the end.

>>9656551
You asked me to tell you more, I did. What's sarcastic about that

>>9656770
Seems perfectly in line with the CGI from 8 to me. Now Yuna from 10 Remaster, that's a problem, she looks like she's from KH

>>9656798
But there is something to enjoy in playing original games in chronological order and seeing the changes over the years. Don't you agree? Isn't that part of what makes retro gaming interesting?

>>9656503
I think it depends on the game and what kind of improvements there are. I generally don't like remasters that change the mechanics of the game, but it depends. If it's just making the game more convenient to play, like removing load times, then I don't mind it.

So for FF8 in particular, if I had liked the updated graphics (which I don't, I think the updated graphics look so sharp that they appear soulless. It becomes more apparent that the models can't move their faces etc, while in the original you can't see shit so your imagination fills in the gaps making the graphics look slightly more alive) then I would probably have liked the remaster. I like FF8 but those GF summons could get tiresome to watch after you'd seen them a few times, so it'd be nice with the speed-up option.

>>9656824
Best of both worlds is playing original in emulation, then you can rewind at any time.

>>9656825
Yeah emulation is great that way. I don't use rewind, but fast forward is a life saver. And I'm saying that as someone who grew up with a C64 with nothing but a tape drive.

>>9656503
I’ve become a big originalfag. If I like it, maybe I’ll try another version next time I play it.

>>9656904
I totally missed this >>9656815 post. This is my view now. I’m actually currently working through some big series I’ve never gotten around to in release order.

I prefer shittier graphics. not even joking

>>9656503
I think its important to keep the original versions available or we'll lose sight of the past.
One example is the original Baldur's Gate being removed from sale after the 'Enahced Editions' came out. Now there are many people who play this new version who beleive that the game played in 1990's was actually like that when the original version is signifficantly different.

>>9656537
remasters and remakes arent the same thing.

>>9656815
I've been doing that for years now on mulitple different series (FF, DQ, SMT, Mother, RE, Castlevania etc.). Currently going through the "Tales of" Series and I'm on Abyss now. Huge step up from Legendia that's for sure and Abyss is already tied with Symphonia as the best in the series for me so far.

Even though it takes ages to get through the series and play the "best ones" I still prefer doing this as you can enjoy all the references to older games in music, characters, enemies etc.

I rarely decide to play a game out of order unless I'm forced into it from it being a multiplayer title or it's the newest hotness right now and I want to see what it's all about/have no games for the system.

>>9657304
>Now there are many people who play this new version who beleive that the game played in 1990's was actually like that when the original version is signifficantly different.
It makes it very easy to talk past each other too when discussing a game when you played different versions.

>press a button to maximize stats and acquire all magics
>press another button to disable encounters
>>>>"QoL"

It's called a cheat. And in this case indeed, you didn't beat the game.

>>9657304
>Baldur's Gate
>when the original version is signifficantly different.
What major changes were there? I have not played either version yet.

The true answer is to play what you want and don't bother trying to discuss it here.

>>9657794
>>press another button to disable encounters
I mean in FF8's barely a cheat since you can get the actual means to do so once the Dollet mission ends.

>>9657980
Yes, but in order to do that you need to
>beat Diablos
>grind. A lot. To unlock the skill
>assuming you knew the skill was there to begin with

In other words, once you do get the skill, you've earnt it, which makes all the difference.

Your point is like saying
>getting 100 Quake with the press of a button is barely a cheat because you can do that on your own in the game with lot's of grinding

>>9658008
>>9657980
and btw on my first playthrough I definitely couldn't beat Diablos as soon as he's available. And out of everyone at my age at school I was the one that knew best how to play the game.

>no analogue movement, which was present in the original
>battle menu works at 15 fps, as opposed to 60
I thought it was supposed to be remaster and not a fucking travesty.

>>9657965
The major difference is that it runs on a different engine. It uses the Baldur's Gate 2 engine. Its more than it seems: for all intents and purpouses it IS Baldur's Gate 2 with all the different class options, balancing, changes to magic, monster balance and behaviour, spell effects, sound effects, UI; all that stuff, but with the original Baldur's Gate campaign haphazardly stretched over it.
The original campaign was not intended to be played with all of Baldur's Gate 2's changes. Forcing them in makes the game a horrible, unbalanced thing that much less challenging, much less engaging, and much less fun.

>>9657794
>It's called a cheat
What about rebalancing game to make it easier, isn't that a cheat too? Most old FF remasters are like playing with cheats then

>>9658012
Cast Blind on him. Now he can't kill you, or at least can't wipe your party. He even carries Blind after a certain level, in case you don't have it yourself.
After blinding him, don't bother healing, and keep attacking.

>>9658238
This is pre-GameFAGs era, zoomer. Not every kid in school had access to the internet and knew about these communities nor writters had fully decoded the best strategies to deal bosses. Even if you followed magazine guides, most times they would lock you on Adel because most strategies were basically spam GF to defeat bosses instead of properly teaching you how the junction system worked and how to fully exploit enemy/boss weaknesses.

>>9658371
If it was the pre GameFAQs era, why were their guides for the game on the site back when it was new?
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ps/197343-final-fantasy-viii/faqs

>>9658008
>grind. A lot.
just 10 t-rexes

Who cares about cheating if it makes the game better? Main reason I played those jrpgs are the vibes, not the minute long random encounters that you beat by spamming attack.
Had great fun playing chrono cross as light adventure game, by auto winning any encounter. I wish it was better written though.

>>9656503
The easier a game is, the less rewarding it feels to beat.
Tedious stuff that gets fixed by QOL improvements sometimes is what makes games feel that much more engaging.
Overall, the original usually is the better experience but you still have to judge each remaster on its own to see if it's the better game.

>>9658371
>>9658458
>zoomer larping gets outed as such
Why do they always try so hard and always get caught

>>9658702
>Main reason I played those jrpgs are the vibes
Sounds like watching a walkthrough would've been just as good for you

There are some remakes that are better than the original, but there aren't many
>Book 1 of Mystery of the Emblem, which is a remake of Fire Emblem 1
>SRW OGs over OG1/2
>DQ 1+2 for the SNES, unless for some reason you really like grinding
>Live A Live (though the localization could use a little work)

>>9656503
>>remaster of it with a bunch of QOL features that make the experience better, but you won't be able to say you've beaten the original
If they drop the bad parts of the old game, that's good. It's all about having fun.

>>9660080
It is the nature of the zommer

Very few of these remasters are worth it for me, gotta go case by case. The 3D FF remasters have shitty audio and strange glitches compared to the original on real hardware.

>>9658371
You should have just said a lot of people didn't have internet access back then. GameFAQs went online in 95 bro

>>9656503
>you won't be able to say you've beaten the original
You can only say that you've beatenthe original if you went and found the game designer and beat him over the head with original hardware
So no, none of the /vr/etards ever beat anything original

>>9656503
>you won't be able to say you've beaten the original
and who's gonna stop me pussyboy

>>9658012
>I definitely couldn't beat Diablos as soon as he's available

You can beat him at pretty much any level since his primary attack is a gravity spell. It'll drain your hit points quickly but since its damage is percentage-based it shaves off less HP every time and can't actually kill you. You'll spend the fight with alarmingly low HP but that just means you can use limit breaks on every turn which actually just makes it much easier.

He *can* physically attack and kill weakened party members but he doesn't do it often and it only ends the game if he hits the MC. If you saved the game like they told you to before using it the worst case is you reload and beat him the next time. I always beat him as soon as I get the lamp and I'm always at extremely low levels. It's a fight designed to let you win because, again, his main attack cannot kill you and you will get to use limit breaks as much as you want.

>>9656503

>>9656513
I respect this point of view, but I don't draw my line in the sand that far. If a the censorship is minor enough I'll just shrug it off.
I think the most minor case of censorship in a game I'm aware of is the Japanese version of Gyakuten Saiban. There's a bit character in one of the games who is never seen on screen named 看護婦, which means "nurse". In the DS remakes her name was changed to 看護師, which is a slightly more polite word for nurse.
I just don't feel it's worth playing the GBA version over the DS version for that one word difference.

Another example is Masoukishin, one of the early Super Robot Taisen games. My understanding is that in the DS and PSP remakes four lines of dialogue that implied that a character was a former Islamic terrorist were changed.
By playing the original over the remakes, in exchange for those four lines of dialogue, you are giving up:
>The ability to play the game on a portable system
>The ability to make a temporary save whenever you want
>96 save files
>Voices
>Very pretty art, one of the best looking games both on DS and PSP
I mean, at some point, I'm willing to look up what lines were changed and replace them with the original in my head.
I definitely wouldn't want to pay money for a game that was censored, I don't support that. But Winky Soft went out of business seven years ago so at least for that game it's a moot point.

>>9656503
>picrel
awful art in the remaster
play the PS1 original at 4K, with warping fixes enabled

>>9658012
If you just draw cast Demi on him he'll cast curaja on whoever did it, so you can just chip away at his health while he full heals you every turn like a dummy.

>>9661753
>that implied that a character was a former Islamic terrorist were changed.
It was more that he used to shout AHALLU AKBAR when he killed enemies and the decision was kind of a "maybe....maybe not have him say that, that phrase has a different context now in the world than it did in the 90s, especially since he's supposed to be an unambiguous good guy"

>>9662482
>different context now in the world than it did in the 90s
It doesn't though, they've been blowing shit up way earlier than that. It's just that until Americans got bombed nobody was super sensitive about all that bombing. In FF7 you play as terrorists and nobody gave a shit. And then Americans got bombed and remake had to censor the terrorism

>>9662749
>remake had to censor the terrorism
?

>>9662750
Shinra blows it's own reactor in the remake, your bomb doesn't do shit

>>9662753
That's not censorship since the crew still has terroristic intent and celebrates the aftermath. All that's different is the government didn't stop it and actually enhanced the outcome just like real life

>>9662760
>intent
Having intent to kill civilians and actually killing civilians is pretty different. I would say it weakens Avalanche's tragic story arc but then they're all implied to survive in remake anyway so the arc got cut I guess. They did nothing and nothing happened to them. A story nobody will be offended by.

>>9662769
>Having intent to kill civilians and actually killing civilians is pretty different
Funny thing is, under the common law you will still be charged with terrorism for failing to carry out a terroristic act

>>9662749
>, they've been blowing shit up way earlier than that
Not that much earlier, the first suicide bombing in the middle east was only 1981 in Beirut, believe it or not. The Japanese didn't make the connection between those words and terrorism in 1996 because it was just this thing that happened in the middle east that you didn't really hear much about. They probably heard about the WTC bombing in 1993 but didn't see it as related.

Regardless, the God is Great phrase wasn't something associated with terrorism in common conciousness in 1993, but now it is and when you want to make Ahmed be one of the good guys, maybe don't have him say the phrase that people today associate with terrorists.

>>9656503
>playing remasters
>ever

>>9662837
Remasters I agree, straight up remakes can sometimes be surprisingly good because they fixed the original's kinks. Like I don't see any real reason to play the original FE over Book 1 of Mystery of the Emblem other than for novelty's sake

>>9656503
People online always going to hate. Just play whichever version you like.

>>9656513
What was censored?

>>9656503
I unironically prefer the og. maybe if everything was remastered and the backgrounds were redone. but I own like 7 8 9 on switch and the mix of half the stuff looking amazing and half the stuff looking shit is awful. I'd rather just play the original on a crt. I remember ff8 graphis looking amazing and they still look great today. that said if they did an ACTUAL remaster and redid ALL the backgrounds and 3d models and textures that'd probably be the new definitive edition.... but they literally half assed it. I haven't seen the steam version / community patches though. I could see that being pretty good in time given what people did for skyrim and junk.

>>9656503
that remaster is awful. makes him look like some kingdom hearts disneyfied fag.

>>9664119
ie the same as the original

>>9663928
Nothing, there's just a troll on this board who intentionally misuses the word. He'd consider a bugfix censorship too

>>9663928
Rinoa's HD model has a higher cut top and Siren's feather pubes are more of a weird skirt now. That's everything.

>>9664121
nope

>>9656904
Same. I always go with original. I'll consider a remake if it's by the same developers.

>>9663945
>redid ALL the backgrounds and 3d models and textures
They did redo all the 3d models and textures in the field, but none in the open world and none of the combat backgrounds. Like this car and gate on my pic. There's no way they could've redone the backgrounds though, considering how many of them transition into CGI animations, they'd have to redo all of those and that's almost an entire CGI movie. Could've remade the overworld and combat backgrounds though but I didn't mind, it was nice and nostalgic

>>9664119
Everyone focuses on main party's faces but this isn't FFX, this game doesn't have closeups, you won't be looking at those faces much, you'll be looking at NPCs and monsters and they all look way better than they used to. In FFX party faces bothered me, in FF8 not at all. Who cares, they only do close-ups in CGI cutscenes here

>>9658458
>>9660080
>>9658371
>>9660321
>Not going to the local library in the late 90's/early 00's and queuing ALL the complete GameFAQs for your favorite game in the printer, thus printing hundreds of pages for you to take home while you play educational games on the beige computer

>>9664391
>you won't be looking at those faces much
Even when there aren't closeups you still see the faces very clearly since resolution is higher.

>>9664391
You're not doing a good job of convincing me you've ever played FFVIII

>>9664492
Just finished the remaster a month ago, pretty sure I remember the game better than you anon. You probably forgot how close-up heavy FFX is. What you're posting isn't even a close-up by FFX standards, in FFX you have a face taking up the entire screen all the time

>>9664487
>>9664492
Just for you guys who are confused about what a FFX tier closeup looks like

>>9664374
The roughest differences are when you get something like Squall's classroom where the difference between the students were were 3D modeled and those that were part of the pre-rendered background wasn't so jarringly obvious back then.

>>9664519
I am not arguing whether FFVIII has tight framed face shots, I am arguing whether you "won't be looking at those faces" which is clearly nonsense when the camera is regularly close enough to not see full bodies and it zooms in every time you summon a GF.

>>9656503
You should be playing all of these PSX games that mix 2D and 3D elements via emulator, upscaling and then downsampling the image back to native resolution. Cleans up the image enormously, but doesn't make the characters pop out from the background the way they do in the FF remasters. Activate PGXP Geometry correction and Perspective Correct Textures to fix PSX wobble, as well.
(CRT shader optional, picrel is just an example)
https://www.libretro.com/index.php/new-vulkan-graphics-enhancements-features-in-beetle-psx-hw/

>>9656503
If all you did was mod the graphics, I'd still consider it "the original game." If you start changing all the gameplay mechanics, then yeah you didn't play "the original"

>>9656503
You should be playing all of these PSX games that mix 2D and 3D elements with an emulator like Duckstation that lets you upscale and then downsample the image back to native resolution. Cleans up the image, but doesn't make the characters pop out from the background in an awkward way like they do in the FF remasters.
Activate PGXP Geometry correction and Perspective Correct Textures to fix PSX wobble, as well.
(CRT shader optional, picrel is just an example)

you guys dont put the playstation disc into the playstation and play the game on the tv?

>>9664670
What settings do I gotta change to upscale and then downsample?

>>9664538
>>9664374
sigh yeah fair the inconsistency in style is weird.
>>9664670
this looks pretty nice

>>9665884
Here's the guide I followed, it worked for me.

>>9656503
>won't be able to say you've beaten the original
Who cares?