/vr/ - Retro Games

>>9657642
Alas, my friends and I missed out on it. We had fun with a lot of N64 multiplayer games, but this one slipped under the radar. Hadn't even heard of it until the Gamecube version became famous.

>>9657647
This is weird, because Smash is the fifth top selling N64 game behind SM64, Mario Kart 64, Goldeneye and OoT. It was HUGE.

>>9657642
% system and sending opponents flying is just such an awesome concept

>>9657653
>It was a commercial success, selling over five million copies worldwide by 2001,[3] with 2.93 million sold in the United States and 1.97 million sold in Japan

Looks like it didn't take off in Europe, for whatever reason.

>>9657709
Europe has weird tastes

>>9657734
Europe is gay

>>9657709
I confirm. It was hugely ignored in Europe where the series gain recognition only with Melee.

BTW SMB didn't save anything. Fighting games were still hugely popular with hits like Virtua Fighter 2, Tekken 2 and 3, Street Fighter Alpha 3 and so on...

>>9657753
Stop spamming tekken here

>>9657734
>>9657745
Good morning Sirs

Semi related, but the N64 will always be the golden era for multiplayer console games for me. We had the right age. By the time gamecube came around, it was getting harder to meet every week. And with the N64, three of us had the console, so we bought different games so we could exchange them with each other.

We had the most fun with 'Snowboard Kids'. Even more than 'Goldeneye'. Mariokart 4 player was lame, it didn't even have music in 4 player, so you had to listen to annoying buzzing sounds from the karts. Diddy Kong had the music on in 4 player, but it still wasn't very good. Snowboard Kids all the way.
Lylat Wars 4 player was barebones, but we had fun with it.
The king was the minigames on 'Pokemon Stadium'. I'd bought it and found the main game lame. But we used to play the minigames everytime, during our weekly meetup, getting drunk before we went out.
Quake II was a good one too, very underrated. And Micro Machines. Also spent a lot of time on 1080 snowboarding, not even on the twoplayer. We would time trial and then race each other's ghosts.

- Snowboard Kids
- Pokemon Stadium
- Goldeneye

Perfect Dark multiplayer was never that fun to us. Turok multiplayer was fun for 5 minutes. Smash Bros 64 looks like a game we could've had a ton of fun with. We just never knew about it, none of us three with a console had bothered to check it out.

Apples and oranges.

With smash, nintendo finally had their own console fighter. To be played in homes; that shit never made it into arcades to eat quarters.

Arcade fighters were mostly stagnant around the turn of the century. Nothing exciting 2D-wise since third strike and MvC2. Guilty Gear X had promise, but even that got more upgrades than SF2.

If an arcade didn't regularly have dance tracks blaring out of a DDR machine's speakers, it was probably about to die.

>>9657765
I'll switch Goldeneye and Pokemon Stadium though. We even played DK64 multiplayer a bunch of times, it was ok. Some funny situations here and there, but too slow to have frantic multiplayer fun.

>>9657760
it appears as tekkens superiority is causing you some discomfort.

>N64
>changing the landscape of anything
Lmfao

>>9657642
>The genre was on the brink of its death until Smash breathed new life into it
Tekken 3 had just sold like eight million on the PS1

I was playing serious game beat-em-ups like mortal kombat and streetfighter, smash brothers is for kids

>>9657873
Stop spamming tekken

>>9657765
I'd lent my friend a copy of 1080, only to get it back and see he broken every single one of my time trial scores. He didn't even mention it to me, the cheeky faggot. I saw it when I put the game in. The labour I had to put in to get my own initials into my own game again.

I like Smash just fine but that's a bunch of bullshit you just said. It didn't affect fighting games at all. All the FG franchises that existed before Smash and continued to exist after weren't influenced by Smash and didn't pick anything up from it. There's nothing Smash about Street Fighter, King of Fighters, Mortal Kombat, Tekken, etc. Smash basically created its own sub-genre apart from those games and spawned its own copycats.

>>9657642
>smash
>fighting game
as a zoomer I want to say your gay and that vf and tekken were more influential

>>9657709
Nintendo in general never quite popped off in Europe, unless you're counting the Fami-clones. N64 was semi-popular for a time because of Pokemon Stadium mostly, but yeah... That's on the company and their lackluster marketing though. The country with biggest Nintendo presence was Germany and even in Germany, you'd walk into a vidya store and Nintendo products would get a tiny-ass display rack, not an entire wall like with Sony or later on Microsoft products. Nintendo was always treated more as a Japanese and American cultural trend. Back in the day if you'd own a Gamecube, good luck swapping games with your buddies. Most of the kids at my school were into PS2 and Xbox, the Gamecube was seen more like a curiosity.

I was a monster on smash. I remember beating two of my friends 2 on 1 with nes playing against fox and mewtwo. As far as the original I used to play that with my first best friend for hours and hours and hours. We would spend hours in the test mode and blowing people up with 4 bomb-o's...good times. I miss those days alot.

>>9657709
Europe was all about Sony and Sega for a long time, nobody gave a shit about Nintendo until recently.

>>9657976
The Snes got a huge surge in popularity where I lived when they did a pricedrop and combined it with Super Mario All Stars. I only had one friend with a Mega-Drive. Nes and Master System where 50/50. I think Goldeneye moved more consoles than 'Ocarina of Time' even though 'Ocarine of Time' got on the news as 'The Videogame Of the Century'. Playstation was a bit like the Wii in the sense that it had very good marketing but most who got one weren't that interested in games. Xbox was a dudd. But it had some good games and was a quality console especially for a first try.

So when you say Nintendo never quite popped of in Europe, I experienced differently with the Nes, Snes and Gameboy. It was only with the N64 and Gamecube they cornered themselves through shit marketing. It's also the only company who's made money on every single one of their consoles from day one. The other ones were prepared to sell theirs at a loss, just to get more of a footing in households. At least that's how I remember it. Sega's probably been a moneydrain since day one, with their arcade games keeping them afloat. And The Megadrive, which was only succesful in regions.

>>9658005
You got a PS3 at 599 dollars and it cost probably around 900 dollars to make. But they were competing with Microsoft over HD-DVD and Blu Ray. So it had very little to do with gaming. They were willing to sell under the price that it cost to manufacture the consoles just to get footing in households. Willing to take a big financial hit. Nintendo realized they could never win this war, because their pockets weren't as deep as Sony or Microsoft. So they went with 'Blue Ocean Strategy'. They made the Wii. And it worked. And how. They sold a last generation console with a remote gimmick and it sold like hotcakes. Zero cost, maximum profit. I consider Nintendo to be the last gaming company around though. But now they are 'branching out'. Fucking telephone games, movies, online. Before you know it, they too, will release unfinished games. But for now, Nintendo is still a seal of quality. You buy a finished product. To the console and cartridges down.

>>9657976
Bullshit. In the Netherlands Nintendo was huge. Europe isn't a country for the millionth time.

>>9657642
I like Smash but this is all bullshit. Smash Bros isn’t really even a traditional enough fighter to be compared to the games you’re talking about. I mean Smash is in it’s own kind of king of the hill, don’t go offscreen genre.

I wouldn’t compare Virtua-On to the games you mentioned either. I’d compare it to Custom Robo and other arena fighters. What other games are in the Smash Bros genre even? Also Soul Caliber and other huge fighting games released afterwards have nothing to do with Smash Bros.

>>9657642
>1999
>genre was on the brink of its death
What. DoA and Virtua Fighter in 96, Tekken 3 in 97, Soulcalibur in 98, DoA 2 in 99. Yeah clearly it was Nintendo who saved this dying genre. Jesus

>>9657642
Not to mention, Smash64 is the CEO of SOVL

>>9657873
It's bait, like pretty much everything on this site nowadays. People would rather get attention by making others angry rather than having conversation.

>>9658271
What's the point baiting on a slow board

>>9658281
Some people are just that dopamine-addicted, I suppose.

Smash was almost as big as SF2. It really ushered in a new era of fighting games after all the stale SF2 clones of the 90s. Thanks to smash the fighting game genre survived until SF4

>>9658284
Are you baiting or is that really the bubble you live in

>>9658289
you probably wasn't old enough when Smash came out

>>9658203
To this day, I still find it baffling that the format wars were going so hard, we as consumers, got technology available to us under the manufacturing cost. Who remembers HD-DVD? Nobody. So Sony won that one. Microsoft has always been more about installing a central hub that controlled your household than gaming. There was a story going around about Gates trying to buy Nintendo and 'Hiroshi Yamauchi' told him to suck 'his little yellow cock'. And Gates went on record saying: 'Nintendo have always marched to the beat of a different drummer.'. Then Microsoft bought Rare, but ended up just buying the name, all the talented people had left or were leaving. Which resulted in the shitpile that was Perfect Dark on Xbox360 on top of the red circle of death.

Timesplitters on PS2 has some of that Rare feel. But it wasn't quite the same.

>>9657642
>saved
You mean ruined.
Before Smash there was casual fighting game players. You'd go over to a friend's house and play a few rounds of Street Fighter just for fun.

>>9658297
>Who remembers HD-DVD? Nobody
At this point, who remembers Blu-ray? Kind of a hollow victory considering everything went digital. I wonder how much money they sunk into that

>>9657642
Anon, this game came out a year before Marvel vs Capcom 2, one of the most popular arcade fighting games ever behind the early franchises. KOF02 and Soul Calibur 2 both had arcade scenes, too. It helped that DDR had reignited interest in arcades around that time.

>>9657873
>Tekken 3 had just sold like 80 million piracy copies on the PSX
Fixed

>>9657642
It's honestly hard to tell if this is bait or stupidity. Smash has had almost no impact on the genre of fighting games, which is why it remains an outlier and sort partygame/fighter with few games inspired by it.

Good net code allowing online play that was good enough to be used for serious play is what saved fighting games as a genre.

I remember having a decent amount of fun when Smash first came out, get a group of people and it's a fun time.

>>9658336
What's stopping you from doing that now?

>>9658447
Can confirm, owned one as did everyone I know. Sales don't mean shit when you've got so many modded consoles around. PSX and Tekken 3 were KING.

PS. Smash was fun though.

>>9657889
you sound like a true urban champion, but are you a bad enough dude for Rise of the Robots

>>9658447
Tekken 3 spamming should be banned. Smash mogged your shitty game for good.

>>9658723
>smash mogs tekken 3
>sells 2.5 million less units despite tekken 3 being piss easy to pirate
Lolercopter

Nonsense.

At the very least, Smash served to prove you can have a fighting game which is accessible, while still making the pros leagues above the newbies. If this was your average Street Fighter after 2, or any SNK fighter, you'd be hampered by the mere execution of your special powers.

>>9658848
That along with the multiple players for matches is why it's considered somewhere in between a party game and a fighter. That is it's appeal though, the way cart racers like MK appeal to some gamers more than sim racers like GT or Forza.

>>9657642
It's a better template than traditional 2D/3D fighting games.

>>9657976
Really? Did Italians not like the Super Mario Bros. NES Trilogy? (Not including Lost Levels)

>>9659003
Better in which ways?

>>9659050
Yes, among others.

>>9659109
Is that really all you can articulate?

>>9657765
We only played golden eye multiplayer growing up. Later in life I have had great fun running through gauntlet legends with frends

>>9659050
NTA but it's objectively more accessible. One thing that a lot of 2D/3D fighting games have as an issue for newer players is giving them the ability to even do moves. Playing MK, SF, or even the DBZ games sucked for kid me going over to someone's house. I would be getting my ass clowned all night trying to helplessly memorize the button combo to perform just a couple of basic attacks. With smash you can pick up like 3 characters in a few hours well enough to manage a few casual sets.

>>9659274
Simply being more accessible isnt an inherently good thing, especially in a genre about competing directly with your opponent to prove who has more skill. I dont see how smash being retard proof is evidence its superior. Moving the stick in a quarter circle isnt hard, kids can do it, dogs can do it, some guy with no hands can do it with a pen in his mouth

>>9657642
are you seriously calling smash a fighting game? lol
let's get something straight OP
smash
-has no fighting
-is not a game
there. glad we cleared that up

>>9658996
> That along with the multiple players for matches is why it's considered somewhere in between a party game and a fighter
that should be the reason, but it isn't really. The FGC shits on smash and insists that it's JUST a kids party game, even all these years later, for no logical reason other than wanting to look down on the more popular game. When in reality, while it has a lower barrier of entry, it's even harder at top level. That's why Melee players and even some Ultimate players get into "real" fighting games with ease but never the other way around. SF 6 seems like the most smash-like SF to date, but don't let any FGC cunt hear that
>>9659297
>Moving the stick in a quarter circle isnt hard
consider the fact that most zoomers don't even use the dpad. Also consider the fact a newcomer using a dualsense is competing against people with more comfortable fight sticks (with decades of muscle memory) and super precise hit/cheatboxes. Without good, accessible guidance, the games become more about legacy than skill. That's the biggest issue with the genre. I don't necessarily agree that smash is a better template, but fg devs should've taken notes regarding accessibility decades ago. Most fighting game devs would agree with me now, that's why they're introducing things like dynamic controls.

>>9657765
Bomberman 64 multiplayer. The single player was so shit. But yeah, bomberman is one of the goats to play against friends. Bomberman took that translation into 3D very well. I only did 2 player multiplayer, but bomberman is the fucking shit

>>9657642
Actually delusional.

>>9658803
Tekken 3 was on Street Fighter 2 level of prominence in 98-99 but honestly it didn't have much competition on consoles. It took 1.5-2 years for Soulcalibur and MvsC2 to arrive.
Smash is different genre entirely.

>>9660118
Tekken 3 is pretty broken. It looked cool, but my friend had a playstation. I would go over to his place. I just rubbed my thumb over the four buttons and I would kick my friend's ass. I'm exaggerating, but that was basically it. It got him seething so hard. Until he choose Eddie and did some capoeira. But yeah, I just had to rub my thumb over the 4 buttons and I'd do a special move. That was the depth of Tekken 3. I'll take Killer Instinct over that any day.

>>9658351
I just finally got a bluray player this year (a ps3). I've been watching dvds until now. Also I still buy CDs to listen to music.

>>9660129
So, you mean Tekken 3 is broken because you and your friend are shit at it?

>>9660143
It used to be a whole undertaking, to make your own cd's. I got cd's from every bar and ripped them on my computer and made my own compilations. It was always in .WAV, which was a 40000 kb, iirc. Per song, more or less. My dad would do the same and he would use obscene pictures as cover. So I'd lend cd's to my friends and there was a woman on the cover who spreaded her asshole. Fuck, but that's just the way he was.He always thought of himself as the greatest comedian, the idiot.

>>9660129
I'm not an expert at either one but even by move list alone tekken 3 has way more depth than ki
https://strategywiki.org/wiki/Tekken_3/Moves
https://strategywiki.org/wiki/Killer_Instinct/Moves
And that not including such things as positioning, running attacks, juggles, reversals and parries.

>>9657709
The N64 didn't take off in Europe. I don't think people realise how borderline obscure Nintendo was in Europe until Pokémania sold the Game Boy. Then it was another long drought until the Wii showed signs of life and the Switch resuscitated it again.
This probably sounds like an anti-Nintendo post, but I'm from Europe and I actually had both an N64 and Super Smash Bros and it was strictly a single-player experience. Literally no one had that game here. The closest was a friend who had the Gamecube one, and I'm pretty sure it was the same deal for him.

>>9660250
My first console was a Master System and it shits all over the Nes and I stand by it. But to say Nintendo didn't take off in Europa until Pokemon is retarded. Just go on wiki, it's just a click away, before you spout shit like that.

>>9657642
I never gave a shit about any fighting game until smash and I still don't but I do remember it very clearly how after the SNES era and marvel vs capcom and king of fighters the genre kinda died, I just didn't hear or see it anywhere
I think the first time I heard about it coming back out of nowhere might have been with street fighter 4
never really made a connection between smash and the genre's resurgence but it's an interesting theory

>>9660260
No, I wouldn't say Nintendo didn't take off per say. I had a SNES too (I was a spoiled little shit so I had both consoles up until the PS2). It wasn't ordering-from-a-catalogue tier unavailable. But it had nowhere near the market dominance it apparently did in North America. I was quite shocked myself to see the hard facts because most of my friends had at least one Nintendo something or other, and most of us had N64s. And by any standard that console bombed hard.

>>9660243
KI depth mostly comes from chain combos but yeah, Tekken 3 depth was only second to VF3 at the time. I think Tekken 3 has even more states to consider during the match (like bounce off the ground) but it is less balanced because of this.

>>9658525
Faggots always want to play Smash instead.

>>9660286
The difference is that VF3 discouraged you from button mashing right away and made you either take it seriously or fuck off. With Tekken 3 you could see brainlets like this >>9660129 playing it against other brainlets and thinking they are good.

>>9660129
Your friend sucked and was a scrub.
All you have to do to beat people like you and him is back up and punish.

>>9660276
You draw conclussions from your environment, I guess. I had 4 people I knew to exchange Master System cartdriges with. Nes, was less popular, I had a cousin, who had one. The Snes was very popular where I lived. As I said, after the price drop and it was bundled with Mario All Stars. I only had one friend who had a Megadrive and one friend who had a playstation. N64 was very popular where I lived. Everyone had a PS2 because of GTA. And A pricedrop. I'm curious about the Switch, but I'm not paying more than a 130 euros for a console combined with a game. So, I'm shit out of luck because the Switch is still at 300 euros. If they would drop it to a 130, combined with two games, it would take the world by storm.

>>9659368
Part of the point with traditional fighters is it's not just a game of timing and strategy, but also player skill based on practice. Special and super moves are intentionally more difficult to do than basic punches and kicks to balance their usefulness and power. So say, doing Zangief's spinning pile driver. It's one thing to be able to do the move while practicing, but it's another to be able to do the move consistently at just the right time and under the pressure of fightingyour opponent. That is one of the displays of skill at the heart if these games and which makes sense because they're based on martial arts which are 99% practice in most cases.

So taking that aspect away or minimizing it the way smash does, has the effect of making it more accessible, but it also removes a level of skill. It's very much like in cart racing games where the player's ability to win is based more on the meta game of power ups and attacks rather than precise driving in a more sim based racer. So it's not bad, it's just different.

It would be like if you took basketball but gave players the ability where if they are within a certain range of the basket they can hit a button and have the ball automatically go in. It lowersthe barrier of entry for people who want to play basketball because they don't have to practice getting the ball in the net, just running around on the court. And while there is still a game there and skill to that aspect, in the end it's a very different experience.

>>9657642
>saved the genre
kek. keep smashing bros. fighters never died out. still tons in arcade and home console. virtua fighters, tekken, street fighters ex, mortal kombat 4, doa, soulcalibur, ext. classic nintardos. "mewtwo king saved evo you guys"

>>9660575
>Part of the point with traditional fighters is it's not just a game of timing and strategy, but also player skill based on practice
smash has that too without sacrificing accessibility, especially that initial "hook". You can enjoy the game as a beginner and get into training mode if/when you want to get good.
> Special and super moves are intentionally more difficult to do than basic punches and kicks to balance their usefulness and power
combos in smash are intentionally more difficult for that reason as well. There seems to be a huge misconception in the FGC that combos in smash don't exist, aren't hard to execute and/or don't matter, when in reality they're just intuitive, all else still applies. You're nothing without your B&Bs with most characters. A combo considered "easy" in smash: in a specific percentage range, with Mario, grab, throw downwards, and right as the opponent bounces from the floor, shorthop -> up tilt -> up tilt -> up B. The opponent can escape the combo with DI, so you have to follow the direction where he moves as you execute the combo, and you may have to turn that up b into nair or something else. This is WAY harder than a combo you would call easy in SF. People confuse intuitive with easy.
> It would be like if you took basketball but gave players the ability where if they are within a certain range of the basket they can hit a button and have the ball automatically go in.
not really. Hell from our perspective, this is how traditional fighting games are, since with command inputs the character does everything for you as long as you have those inputs memorized. Smash is, like basketball, easy to get into but hell to get good at, and is much harder to predicts. The ball doesn't just. get in the basket if you throw. There's always variability with aim, momentum, etc. I like traditional fighting games, but there's a reason why so many smash players do well in fighting games with 0 previous experience, but not the other way around

>>9660872
and to clarify, I'm not saying that fighting games don't require skill. Just that their problem of accessibility has nothing to do with skill. I just got into traditional fighting games, and initially it felt impossible to play due to my shitty dpad. Got a good controller and read up on what people use - now what initially felt impossible feels trivial with ZERO practice. That's legacy, not skill. I had to immediately jump into training mode and memorize the b&bs cause fighting games don't really have an accessible beginner pipeline. there's no items mode on to play with experienced players so we all have fun (while in basketball I played a ton of "throw here, then from 3, then half-court" games with my more experienced friends), the inputs can't really be learned on the fly (as you would learn basketball or football or boxing), you have no choice but to commit to the game before you even see what it's about. Unless you've played fighting games before, there's absolutely no reason why a quarter circle -> punch would throw a projectile. It's just not intuitive. That's legacy, and that's the sort of learning path that would've made sense in the arcade days were people met face to face and you could get tutorials IRL. This is why SF 6 will have things like dynamic controls to mitigate this problem - beginners will still lose to the better player, but they can test the waters and maybe even learn a bit.

Executing inputs is not even something I have to think about anymore, now it's all about memorizing them. Where the actual skill lies is in the actual fight - how do you handle neutral, how do you optimize your advantage/disadvantage, which attacks are "safer", how do you read/predict your opponent's habits, how do you mix up and become unpredictable, how do you safely space your attacks, is aggression or defensive play better, etc. All of which is present in Smash, so the skill is the same except without the added complexity of Smash's analog inputs and DI.

>>9660939
>>9660872
None of the complexity you mentioned is any more than most fighting games though. I think that is what you are missing.

>>9660998
>None of the complexity you mentioned is any more than most fighting games though
that hasn't been my experience. Analog inputs will always be harder than inputs that can be piano'd. Plus platforming, which adds things that things like recovery, ledge trapping, edge guarding and more. I'd go as far as to say it's objectively more complex, but I'm too tired and sleep deprived to make a convincing argument so I'll just leave it at that. In any case, my point wasn't that it's more complex than fighting games, but that it definitely is at least as complex, which proves that you can make fighting games accessible without sacrificing skill-based gameplay

>>9657647
strange, i hated n64, didnt own one, tried to avoid playing whenever i could, and still mustve played this game fifty times.

>>9661008
That's fair and we can disagree on that aspect, but you would agree I am sure that Smash would have an even higher skill ceiling if it incorporated more complex movements like other fighters have on top of it's other things though.

Smash was the first fighting game that was actually fun. Autistically memorizing ridiculously long and convoluted button combos is not fun and never has been.

>>9661970
Autistically going
>holy shit that's Mr Potato from Potato Densetsu XV DX!
is the entire appeal of Smash. Like Sonic, it's a game with a 100% autistic fanbase

>>9661985
For some people maybe, but the gameplay is fun. Actual fun, like something you and your friends can pick up and immediately feel good playing. Not the "study the manual and practice holding the controller awkwardly in order to the do the button combos" type of fun.

>>9661970
>Autistically memorizing ridiculously long and convoluted button combos is not fun and never has been.

Do you honestly think that's what fighting games are?

>>9662023
Every fight game is like that. Pick literally any decent one, sit down with a friend and the manual and you're in for a great time.

>>9662504
You don't seem to understand this is the reason why smash replaced them.

>>9657873
Tekken > SMASH
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iSlXJ191-M

Smash is all about mind games and fundamentals while capcom fighters are about memorizing move inputs and combos

>>9662696
But smash hasn't replaced them. Not even close.

>>9663356
At this point I genuinely can't tell if this is bait or you genuinely believe that.

Holy shit. Go back to discuss which gimped port of SF2 is the least worst, this is way too stupid.

>>9663817
What do you have against SF2?

Smash has a lot more autism at a high level, and a lot more advanced memorization. You don't have to really remember strings or combos, but you will be still memorizing a lot of things. Its really not as pick up and play as people make it out to be, its only really that way on a low level and so are fighting games (just pick a character and hit buttons and see what they do)

But its not a fighting game, its a party game like mario party. Its kiddy bullshit that shouldn’t be compared alongside real fighting games.

>>9657709
>>9657753
I can corroborate this as well, I didn't know a single person who had SSB for the N64. In fact I only learned of that game's existence shortly before the Gamecube's release. Mario Kart? Goldeneye? Mario Party? Pkmn Stadium? Those were all huge.

>>9657642
Imagine bringing this game to your mates house when it came out, bringing your N64 and all controllers and then they refuse to play it at all.

Pearls before swine. Glad I stopped hanging with them after I puked on their rug. I went round and cleaned it up though, I'm not an animal.

>>Smash forever changed the landscape of fighting games and saved the genre.
>doesn't contribute to, and dissociate, the genre at all

>>9657642
Smash didn't change shit. Smash 64 was a under the radar release that got popular though word of mouth.

What works for Smash wouldn't work for any other fighting game.

>>9665738
Yeah if Smash had changed things then fighting games would have disappeared and old series like Street Fighter changing to clones of it. In actuality almost the opposite happened.

>>9666241
And "(crossover) platform fighter" wouldn't be its own class

>>9664913
>then they refuse to play it at all.
based

>>9666972
If he had to bring his N64 not just the game then his friend probably had a PSX and likely some iteration of SF Alpha, Soul Blade or Tekken sp it's easy to understand his palpable disinterest.

>>9664705
"real fighting games" are more casual than modern "party games" at this point. You are coping if you still holding on to this belief that fighting games are some hardcore genre.

>>9668184
Describe in detail what you mean, which games and in which ways and how fighting games now are more casual than them. I am interested to hear you make this case.

>>9657642
I thought it was cool when I first played it. My dad got me an N64 with Smash and Banjo Kazooie for Christmas, and I played it for 10 hours straight. Unfortunately, I didn't have any friends, so I could only play multiplayer a few times a year when my cousins visited. I mostly just played the story over and over.

>>9668463
What a sad story, why didn't you have any friends?

It's crazy about innovative this game felt when I first played it in its day. Namco kinda Xerox'd themselves by never porting The Outfoxies home.

>>9657709
N64 games were quite expensive back then. In germany they cost about 130-140DM (65-70€). Adjusted for inflation its slightly over 100usd.

>>9666935
Yeah that would be a whole genre if Smash had been influential, not only a dozen or so games over 20 years which most gamers not into them specifically would never even have heard of.

>>9669482
I moved around a lot. Then, when we stayed somewhere for a while, I really didn't know how to interact very well. I did kind of become cordial with other kids, but they never came over or anything. Then I was home-schooled after fifth grade. Socialization is important for young kids. It wasn't fun.

>>9658723
sorry your faggy little autistic psuedo beat em up cant be everywhere, all the time

>>9660129
button mashing is pretty effective in t3. i think that made it accessible

>>9657642
Smash didn't change anything about or impact fighting games in any way whatsoever.

Those of us who played fighting games never considered Smash to be a fighting game. Smash was popular, but it wasn't popular with the people who were into fighters, it was popular among Nintendo fans.

>Smash Bros
>Fighting game
It's not

>>9661970
Smash isn't a fighting game, it's a party platformer vs. beat em up

>>9661970
>memorizing ridiculously long and convoluted button combos
The best fighting game in history has multiple characters where you don't have to do that. And several of them are top tier.

>>9668245
auto combos and "modern control schemes" aren't the biggest, but they are the most obvious in current fighting game design philosophy. Also gutted movesets, more and more of slowing down the gaemplay, more reliance of comeback mechanics, the list goes on and on and on.

We aren't in the early 2000s anymore, let it go.

>>9671223
>noooo only VF clones with restricted af movements so nogs can understand the gameplay are fighting games
Always makes me kek

>>9671591
And that makes them more casual than party games? Come on now.

>>9670869
Still mad about Smash outselling Tekken 3?

>>9657709
We had Tekken 3 and grew up to like adult 3d women.
Pity us

>>9672230
Fighting games are fighting games. This includes 2D fighting games which were spawned by SF and 3D fighting games spawned by VF, largely, Smash is just a party platform game that happens to be a vs. mode.

Smash is no more a fighting game just because you fight in it than Street Fighter is a wrestling game because you can use grappling moves, it's a different genre.

>>9672507
What are you talking about? Tekken 3 sold 2.5 million more copies than Smash, and that was on a system where piracy was rampant. I don't like Tekken 3 or think it's a good game which is part of the point. Smash was barely anything even compared to that trash fighting game.

>>9657709
Too busy playing Chuck Egg and Dizzy

>>9672507
>>9672693
>Smash schizo argues with himself to make a point against Tekken 3
Meds, now.

>>9672716
You're retarded.

>>9672716
More people play Smash than Tekken

>>9672869
More people listen to Justin Beiber than they do Mozart.

>>9672716
Found Maximillian Dood subscriber. Tekken 3 ever being good is a meme that only he and his subs believe.

>>9672869
Do you mean over the course of time since each series release, or when both were new? Tekken is only one fighting game out of a huge pool whereas Smash is one of the only successful games in it's genre so...

>>9672903
They are the same genre retard

>>9672894
Yeah. Tekken 3 is a trash game. Even it outsold and was more popular than Smash. Is any of this starting to sink in yet? Even the bottom of the barrel trash fighters do better than Smash.

>>9672894
Who? Sorry, I'm a 90's kid.

>>9672907
>fighting game
>party platformer
Huh?

>>9672891
Can you explain what makes fighting games so much better than Smash. What is someone doing in them that is so much more challenging and sophisticated?

>>9672907
Lol no they're not.

>>9672907
Explain this then >>9665564

>>9672923
It's never been about better or worse as much as just different. Smash players desperately want it to be considered a fighting game, but it's simply not that kind of game. You'd have better luck trying to get it included as a wrestling game since if anything that's closer.

It is the insecurity of the smash player who perceives real fighting games as better then wants theirs to be part of that which is the issue. Enjoy you party game, it's all good. But trying to call checkers chess just makes you come off as stupid and childish.

>>9672923
Well, it's more a preference thing rather than it is one being better than another, but fighting games do require more skill and finesse to master while Smash is a very casual game, it's made to be on the same level as Mario Party or Pokemon Stadium.

>>9672915
Yeah. I don't get the shilling.

>>9672940
>skill and finesse
>implying tekken requires any skill and finesse other than button mashing

>>9672230
>>9665564

>>9672923
Have you consider the fact they're not made by someone who hates competitive fighters?

>>9672946
I'm not a big Tekken player, but from what I know of Tekken it's pretty easy to jump into but hard to master. Smash on the other hand is easy to jump into and easy to master.

Not that they are really comparable, it's two totally different styles of gaming.

>>9672943
It's strawman misdirection. They try to compare it to Tekken which is one of the main series widely regarded as low tier for the genre so they can try to make a better case for Smash.

They are basically trying to get regular gold and mini-golf considered as the same game by pointing out thar someone with a regular gold course made it stupid easy and put up novelty windmills.

>>9672943
It's strawman misdirection. They try to compare it to Tekken which is one of the main series widely regarded as low tier for the genre so they can try to make a better case for Smash.

They are basically trying to get regular golf and mini-golf considered as the same game by pointing out thar someone with a regular gold course made it stupid easy and put up novelty windmills.

>>9672943
It's strawman misdirection. They try to compare it to Tekken which is one of the main series widely regarded as low tier for the genre so they can try to make a better case for Smash.

They are basically trying to get regular golf and mini-golf considered as the same game by pointing out thar someone with a regular golf course made it stupid easy and put up novelty windmills.

>>9672958
I mean, Tekken 3 shilling here. It is retarded.

>>9672965
Ahh yes, shilling for Tekken 3 is always retarded but it is worth pointing out that even a game like that was vastly more well regarded.

>>9672961
I mean, Tekken 3 shilling here. It is retarded. Every single fighting game thread here has the same retards spamming it like it's the second coming.

>>9672983
Tekken fans to good fighting game players are a little like Smash fans to all fighting game players as a whole. Does that clarify things any?

>>9672954
As someone who plays both Tekken and Smash, the idea that Smash (64 and Melee especially) is more casual and easier to master is just ridiculous. Tekken has shitloads of 'stuff' to learn and certain technically demanding aspects, but you simply don't remotely have the control over movement that Smash has in Tekken and aren't mastering that in the same way.

>>9672997
Smash takes more skill

>>9673008
I also played both Tekken and Smash, and I am saying that Smash has zero technically demanding aspects, which is what makes it less easy to master.

>>9673008
>Tekken has shitloads of 'stuff' to learn and certain technically demanding aspects
This is the only demanding aspect of kekken
https://youtu.be/oJ4lmAFB7d4
Number of button presses per second

>>9673014
>Smash has zero technically demanding aspects

What the actual fuck am I reading.

>>9673024
Tekken induced brain damage

>>9673024
There is nothing that is hard to do in Smash. If you think so, it's only because you don't play fighting games, which is fair, you don't need to.

>poster count of this thread hasn't gone up in a long time
Noticing a trend here with the many Smash threads all on the board at once

>>9673028
Tekken is just a weeb Mortal Kombat - all style no substance.

>>9673012
Probably so. Picking your nose requires more skill than playing Tekken. The point is more the irony that Tekken gets shit on in the FGC for being a baby game where even people good at it are assumed to be just better at spamming some random bullshit than the random bullshit their opponent was going for. But even a low rung Tekkentard can at least say they're not playing Smash.

It doesn't matter to them if Smash is actually a more technically demanding game, they are playing Tekken a "real" fighter where they are playing something different. The mistake of both that Tekken player and the Smash player who wants their game to at least be beside Tekken is not understanding sinple differences. You can make a "real" golf course that is incredibly easy with short greens and no obstacles and then mini-golf course thar has so many turns and obstacles it's almost impossible. The person who makes a stupidly easy regular golf course so they can throw their arms in the air and declare they are awesome at golf, and the person who makes an incredibly hard mini-golf course in the hopes of saying that because it's hard it should be considered regular golf are both equally retarded. They are just retarded in different directions.

Smash really is just a light fun game where you play as your favorite kid characters, I don't know why people want to pretend it's a skillful game, but it's just a funny cutesy game designed so even your little brother or sister can play by tapping the one button.

>>9673071
Smash isn't hard though.

>>9673076
People get free pass pretending that tekken is a skillful game all the time. Why, I wonder?

>>9673071
Indeed. Tekken is just a kiddie button masher of a fighting game.

>>9673076
>>9673081
I genuinely can't believe that people like you still exist, people have been demonstrating over and over again, for over two decades, that Smash is at least as skillful as any fighter people play, and to this day no FGC pro has had any success in Smash, or offered actual grounds as to why they might claim that it's easier.

>>9673093
I mean I actually grew up in the 90's.....so like, I can say, I played Smash and Tekken quite a bit, I know newer people here don't really get it, but I was a 90's kid....and like, I can definitely say even if neither game was hard to me, Tekken was more challenging to get good at than Smash

I mean, most people who played Smash exclusively didn't like fighting games cause they couldn't figure out moves, that's why they liked it, yaknow, you just had to be there I guess

>>9673098
>I can definitely say even if neither game was hard to me, Tekken was more challenging to get good at than Smash

How 'good' are you at either game?

>>9673081
It's a competitive game, so it depends on who you are playing against. It comes down more to how broken it is. Tekken is a low skill fighter though which is why it's the one Smash players pick as a comparison. In reality they are just different. What is "harder", tennis or ping pong? It depends almost entirely on who you are playing.

>>9673103
Eh good enough, played enough to understand the games. Neither was "my" game, I liked 2D fighters, but I played all fighting games, and Smash and other goofier vs. games like that too.

I haven't played either in years if that's what you're asking, played a little of the Smash sequels post Melee which I also played quite a bit, mainly because like girls I knew would wanna play it cause they didn't like most vs. games.

>>9673119
Agree, Tekken is just the same casual trash as Mortal Kombat. Barely even acknowledged by the FGC.

>>9673132
Smash isn't acknowledged at all by the FGC, so if that's your measuring stick, maybe get a new one.

>>9673138
I didn't even say anything about Smash. Try harder, Maximillian Dood subscriber.

>>9673154
Indeed

>>9673132
Ironically modern Mortal Kombat is actually more technical than Tekken now, but the comparison will always be Tekken over MK because at least it's taken semi seriously. If Smash players tried saying it should be included with fighting games because at least it's more complex than Mortal Kombat they know the conversion would end there because no one would be able to stop laughing.

What's most baffling to me is why Smash players are so invested in it being included in such a niche and specific genre of games. Even 2D vs 3D are basically considered different genres by most. Smash is a party game. Which is to say, it supports a bunch of players and is something almost anyone including kids who are Nintendo's traditional target audience, can pick up for the first time and start having fun with in minutes. You can do that to an extent in fighting games, but they are much more about digging into the mechanics and mastering specific skills. Shoving two such fundamentally different gameplay approaches under the same genre just because they happen to involve fighting as a theme is ridiculous sure, but more importantly it disregards what makes each special.

>>9673138
>Smash isn't acknowledged at all by the FGC
I mean that's cause it's not a fighting game though. It's a party platformer.

>>9673154
>I didn't even say anything about Smash.
You're in the Smash thread. And you're one of the people arguing since the poster count hasn't gone up in quite some time, so you're not just "strollin' on by not invested in this discussion". You were implying Smash is less casual than Tekken and Mortal Kombat.

>>9673208
>he uses poster count to make a point
Anyway, Tekken and Mortal Kombat are well know as the bottom of the barrel skill wise. Sorry to trigger you.

>>9673173
>Maximillian is the tekken 3 spammer
naruhodo

>>9673223
Ok, I don't really care because Street Fighter is my main series. Tekken and Mortal Kombat can be considered the bottom of the barrel skill wise in terms of fighting games, but Smash which isn't a fighting game, is beneath them skill wise.

Mario with a LIGHTSABRE THROWING POKEBALLS

>>9657642

It was amazing. Meeting up with friends and having 4-player matches was something never seen before. Hell, even in 2007-08 someone would take a TV, his N64, 4 controllers and Smash to med school and we'd play between classes. Such a game changer, and no other Smash Bros has done the same for me.

Still, my favorite N64 game is Perfect Dark: everything about it was pure excellency, from the single player campaign to the FUCKTON of multiplayer content. To this day I'll meet with one of my best friends and do some of the challenges.

>>9658250

Wish they'd keep that art style.

>>9657642
Literally no one owned an N64 or GameCube, so how could this shut series have saved fighting games? Fighters were dead until SF4

>>9657962
You haven't played many games then
>>9660286
>VF
>deep
Pick one
>>9660313
One of VF's mechanics has you mash buttons

>>9673487
Why are smashfags like this?

>>9673487
>VF
>deep
>Pick one

Way to show you have no clue what you're talking about.

>>9673762
It's a tech demo and a 3d masher like Tekken. There's no depth.

>>9673487
>>9673775
This person doesn't play fighting games

>>9673880
>y-you just don't play fighting games
I do, but only good ones like Smash

>>9673775
Anyone who tries to seri compare those two games in that way clearly has no idea what they are talking about. In one sentence you have proven everything people have been saying about Smash fans. You're obsessed with your game being part of a genre you don't even understand.

>>9657976
Sega was barely a thing in Northern Europe, while Nintendo was very big and their big competition was Playstation and PC.

>>9674252
You're fanboying over a glorified tech demo

>>9657642

desu I only know of Smash due to them being the butt of jokes for the FGC. Like you can tell where the Smash tournament is by the smell lol
Also I heard Nintendo shut down Project M I think.. and also tournaments and streaming. That must suck.

>>9674337
I am not a fan of either game, but I am plenty familiar enough with them to know you have either never played either to any real degree and are simply hoping if you say something randomly bad it will stick. That you don't realize how stupid you sound is the point.

>>9674372
I'm speaking objective truth here. VF is just a tech demo and Kekken is a mindless masher like every 3D fighting game out there.

>>9674387
Lol please do keep going

>>9658005
>I think Goldeneye moved more consoles than 'Ocarina of Time
Yep, I got a N64 due to Goldeneye.

>>9673990
>i do
>doesn't post a single one