/vr/ - Retro Games

>>9646856
if you play it 30 years too late then you wont get it

I don't think I really care for Zelda games or games that try to emulate its formula.

>>9646856
Yeah it's nice but it's massively overrated. And the faxt that the whole series is so formulaic makes the titles even more lame.
But since this i a ndroid board you'll probably get banned for making this thread.

>>9646856
It does insist upon itself 2bqh

>>9646856
It's a good 3D conversion of the ALttP formula considering the time it came out. Not my favorite game ever, but I like it.

>>9646856
I think that the first two dungeons are a fucking slog and that's coming from someone who doesn't mind the beginning section of Twilight Princess. OoT is still a masterpiece in my eyes but it honestly doesn't get good until Jabu Jabu

>>9646856
>wish that I could play this game for the first time again
>realize that I would probably feel the same as OP
guess I should be happy that I experienced it the way I did

>>9646860
>if you play it 30 years too late then you won't get it
That's basically what I did, playing it for the first time at 28, and I was nauseated by how boring it was. If your game relies on Nostalgia, with a capital N, in order to be appealing, it's not a good game. I have a soft spot for Clayfighter, that doesn't make it suddenly amazing.

>You don't get it (you will inevitably respond)
>likely implying it has something to do with capturing the magic of childhood itself
Yea yea yea, all that pseud-crap is fascinating and all, but I've played games that do this, such as in Pajama Sam, and those games were quite alright and pretty fun. Ocarina is a fucking fun vampire. I'm sure that the boss battles are thrilling once you get to them, but I don't feel like spending 3 hour periods wandering around being unhappy, to spend 10-20 minutes having fun beating a somewhat interesting boss, then spending another 3 hours unhappy, rinse and repeat.

>>9647036
Pajama Sam games are pretty atmospheric even if you are an adult

>>9647036
This so much kek

I have to say the 60 FPS version looks a lot better, though. It's faster and more fluid

>>9646856
>>9646880
>>9646891
>>9646961
>>9646982
>>9647036
>>9647056
>>9647042

Why does this thread get posted every other day and still get dozens of replies each time

>>9646860
>>9646880
>>9647036
The "problem" of Ocarina of Time is the problem of anything that is so good it sets the new standard of the medium. Every single adventure game made since 1998 has taken what OoT had and either copied or elaborated upon it. It's like with some movies regarded as classics, such as Citizen Kane. Every single new innovation or stylistic risk the film took has been copied so thoroughly that it's simply a part of the standard language of cinema now. Star Wars is another example; you'd find the original film boring if you've seen good sci-fi films made since then.

If you weren't there when it came out, in order to appreciate OoT you have to educate yourself on what else was available at the time it came out and compare it to then. Obviously you'll never be able to experience the ground-breaking effect it had upon release, but you can at least gain a historical appreciation for its contribution to the medium.

>>9647070
I remember when there were SM64 and Sonic Adventure threads like this too but it's only OoT now

>>9647081
That's not even remotely true. The only thing that Ocarina did which was innovative was Z-targeting. Nothing else it did was new or innovative and done before it.

>>9647081
>Star Wars is another example; you'd find the original film boring if you've seen good sci-fi films made since then.
It's actually ALWAYS the other way around. Star Wars 1977 is better than anything that takes inspiration from it including the sequels. Same with RE4 and TPS games that came out after it

>>9647084
Super Mario 64 I will say has more than just nostalgia appeal. People pretend it had good controls at the time, which it didn't, which I lay at the feet of the N64 controller itself. When it got ported to the Switch, with controls designed for human hands, then it really showed how good it played.

>>9647091
>including the sequels
Empire Strikes Back > Star Wars 1977.

The reason for this is simple; Empire Strikes Back took the generic, cloned, "Flash Gordon but gritty" aesthetic of Star Wars, and gave it drama, weight, and prestige, through the lens of a much better director who knew who how to make people actually care about what was happening on screen rather than just being mesmerized by special effects.

>>9647081
OoT isn't the problem at all. Its the same reason normal fags can't into black and white movies. Once tech advances, they simply cannot go back. They physically last the ability. Its why you have a whole camp of "people" who claim games age.

>>9646860
I hated it even back then. I just gave up after a certain point from getting bored. I genuinely cannot understand why people rank this game so highly.

>>9647085
You're really underestimating how influential the contextual button mapping was. See? You're doing it yourself. Contextual button mapping is so prevalent, so absolutely bog-standard that you've forgotten almost no games before it had that feature. But that's just the raw mechanics, which your autist brain is stuck on. There's also the story, the game progression, the item functions, the NPCs, everything else. OoT set the standard for all of that. The hookshot was fucking NUTS when kids first obtained it, a good portion of many a playthrough for many anons was spent just shooting everything with it to see where they could go. But nowadays? Like 1000 games have had a hookshot-type item to navigate a 3D environment. Even Doom Eternal has one.

>>9647091
No, if you were born post-2000 and grew up on post-2000 sci-fi movies, Star Wars is very boring. Stuff like the Death Star trench run was absolutely unique when it came out, but since then countless movies have done something similar, some even with more skill. Star Wars still has a great story and timeless themes, but visually it offers absolutely nothing for a modern audience. The aesthetic of Star Wars has been replicated everywhere, even in games.

>>9647104
>once the tech advances, they simply cannot go back

That's a cope. As someone who can watch black and white movies with ease, and go back and play C64 games that I never even saw until 30 minutes ago, I can quite readily say, I've tried to play Ocarina on 3 separate occasions. All 3 had me quit before the tutorial area was over. The game's a fucking slog. Even the awkward style of play of Daggerfall had me playing longer than Ocarina.

>>9647120
You might just not like the 3D adventure genre.

>>9646860
nope, it sucked just as bad 30 years ago. this game is a massive cope from kids who the 64 was their first system and they were already indoctrinated to worship the zelda name irregardless if the games were actually good or not. fans of the earlier games stopped playing this series when zelda64 released

Wow what the fuck, calling Star Wars '77 generic is like saying that Dragon Quest is the worst RPG series. People need to learn to enjoy the brilliant simplicity of some things

>>9646856
No you are not the only zoomer with ADHD

>>9647070
Because samefagging with your phone is a thing which a fanboy who really hates Nintendo has demonstrated doing

>>9646856
It's only boring if you are dumb and get stuck in the dungeons. Otherwise it's quite fast paced with a lot of control over what is happening. If it's just too easy, I recommend Master Quest or a 3 heart run

Picrel were other games of that generation

>>9647117
>Contextual button mapping
Tomb Raider did it first.

>The story
Generic and a pastiche of Western fairy tales.

>The game progression
Virtually bog standard by 1998.

>The item functions
Not sure what you're referring to.

>The hookshot
You mean that gameplay mechanic that was literally done almost a decade before it in Bionic Commando?

>Even Doom Eternal has one
Yes, I know, Bionic Commando was quite innovative.

>>9647131
>calling Star Wars 77 generic is like

It is, it is quite LITERALLY Flash Gordon. Lucas originally wanted to make a Flash Gordon movie but couldn't get the rights, so he made Star Wars.

>>9647097
>through the lens of a much better director
Ehhhh, I mean besides Robocop 2, ESB is the only film of his I'd say is good.

>>9647157
I liked Never Say Never Again

>>9647132
>No you are not the only zoomer with ADHD
Funny, your retarded parents were claiming you had ADHD for liking video games.
Now your retarded generations is claiming people have ADHD for not enjoying them
Retardation through the generations, kind of cool to see
Retard.

>>9646856
yeah it's not very fun or interesting

>>9647070
probably because the constant masterpiece threads pushed people to try it and realize it's not very good

>>9647146
Everyone says it's Flash Gordon but I view it as a sci-fi samurai film. George Lucas himself treats it as such as evidenced by Vader's helmet. It's anything but generic and the special effects is not the only reason it became popular

>>9647163
>because the constant masterpiece threads pushed people
It's funny to watch. Remember when /v/ considered new vegas perfect in every way?

>>9647182
>It's anything but generic
Most people who say its generic can't understand the difference between classic and generic

>>9647182
>George Lucas himself treats it as such as evidenced by Vader's helmet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnOL8Fx3Tvc

>>9647195
You know you can reference more then 1 source, right? Lucas has admitted to Flash yeah, but he's also admitted to samurai too.

>>9647195
Flash Gordon influence is undeniable but Star Wars is literally The Hidden Fortress in space.

>>9647121
I went back and played through Tomb Raider 1 through 4, so I doubt that's the issue.

>>9647136
>pic related were other games of that generation

Ah yes, a barely-known franchise that only took off in the west decades later when the developer became known as the Soulsborn developer.

Can we stop meming pretending anyone knew King's Quest existed outside of the Japanese market?

>>9647136
>pic related were other games of that generation

Ah yes, a barely-known franchise that only took off in the west decades later when the developer became known as the Soulsborn developer.

Can we stop meming pretending anyone knew King's Field existed outside of the Japanese market?

>>9647136
It's really amazing how far Wizardry influenced Japanese gameplay design. That gif looks like a 1-to-1 3D render of early Wizardry gameplay.

>>9647131
>people need to learn to enjoy the brilliant simplicity of some things
Did I say Star Wars 77 was bad? I said it was generic in comparison to Empire Strikes Back, which it is. Star Wars 77 was noted primarily for its special effects. It's like going back and calling Avatar 2009 "generic", which it is, it merely impressed people with its incredible special effects. I never said it wasn't fun to watch, so you can quit trying to gaslight me by saying that criticizing it for something it can obviously be criticized for means I can't enjoy it.

People really need to learn to stop dick-sucking media.

>>9647138
Yeah you're right, OoT wasn't a huge hit and everyone knew about everything in the game before it came out.

Fucking idiot

>>9646856
Even with today's standards, its level design is one of the greatest ever made.

We barely ever got good 3D level design actually taking the 3rd dimension into account. The only studios still trying are From Software, Arkane and Nintendo. Everyone else just do big arenas to fight on, verticality is just for dressing.

If you can't see how even the Deku Tree is something you don't really see elsewhere (easy 5-floor dungeon with an emphasis on verticality) you haven't understood how good the game is and how much of a classic it still is.

>>9647290
>He didn't know because he wasn't around at the time.

>>9647548
>gets proven objectively wrong
>decides to pull a red herring fallacy and throw in a follow-up ad hominem for good measure

lmao, absolutely seething tendie.

>>9647138
I find umihara kawase to have the best hook implementation in any game

>>9649096
>We barely ever got good 3D level design actually taking the 3rd dimension into account. The only studios still trying are From Software, Arkane and Nintendo. Everyone else just do big arenas to fight on, verticality is just for dressing.
Yea, let's just ignore all those games that do, like Mirror's Edge, Portal, Halo, Tomb Raider, Spider-Man, DMC5, Titanfall 2, Jedi Fallen Order, and Sunset Overdrive. You're totally right dude, Ocarina of time is the only game to ever actually take the 3rd dimension into account. You're totally blowing my mind right now. Just wow.

>If you can't see how even the Deku Tree is something you don't really see elsewhere (easy 5-floor dungeon with an emphasis on verticality)
Yea, I mean it totally wasn't done in Soul Reaver at the Silenced Cathedral.

>>9649246
tomb raider did actual 3d level design better than ocarina, 2 years before ocarina, and honestly hasn't been surpassed. Ocarina teaches you to look up to spot eye switches, Tomb Raider teaches you to look up to see the rest of the world.

>>9649105
I'm 31 years old, I was around at the time and nobody who had a playstation had King's Field. You can quit LARPing now, zoomer faggot.

>>9649267
I'm 30 and we all had kings field (kf2 in the west) and there was even autistic pc gamer boys who said it was the only good console game (at the time!!! don't get angry!!! AT THE TIME!!!!!!!) because it reminded him of ultima underworld

>>9649271
Again, nice LARP.

>>9649316
Thanks but I really am 30 and this is the internet not real life so LARP makes no sense here you dumb faggot holy fuck you're bad at this

>>9649334
Calling me the dumb faggot when you're the inbred nigger-tard who's larping is rich.

>>9647081
This is cope. New generations are still able to enjoy Space Invaders, Super Mario Bros, Doom, Halo, etc. The problem with OoT isn't being outdone by its protege (especially when its contemporaries and predecessors were more fun); the problem is being a mediocre game.

Nobody has still been able to answer why exactly they think Ocarina of Time deserves to be a contender for the best game ever made—I know it's certainly not because of the combat or the young Link dungeons.

>>9647036
>I played a game that was made for a completely different demographic than me, and I didn't like it. How could this have happened to me?
(Autism beam noises)

>>9649271
And then everyone clapped

>>9649359
>game gets touted as the best game ever made
>play it
>think its shit
>"REEEEEEEE, IT WASN'T MADE FOR YOU"

Okay, fine, whatever dude.

>>9649363
His argument is entirely retarded too, because it would imply that retro games in general should be considered bad because of demographics. This is obviously not the case and OP obviously doesn't hate old games; he just doesn't like OoT.

>>9646856
Ditto. Played it for the first time like 5 years ago. Honestly, my favorite part was the water temple and the shadow link fight (and a couple of ganon fights), outside of that it was pretty boring

>>9649267
When I first got a Playstation 1, the very first game I ever rented was Kings Field (KF2 Japan) from a Video Update store if you remember those. I remember the game terrified me and my friends with the diminishing lighting and death scream in particular.

I forgot the name for years afterwards and it was insanely hard to figure out on Google a good 10+ years ago when I rediscovered it.

>96' Born

>>9649365
OoT is by far my favourite N64 game, you fucking mongoloid.

>>9649341
look up the definition of larp before accusing people of doing it on the internet

>>9649252
>>9649246
>This level of contrarianism
I can give you Portal, but the rest is just not true. Zelda dungeons include puzzles requiring to mentally map each dungeon, something that platformers don't do. The only thing Halo teaches you is to shoot the baddies before you, it's visually good, but the levels are just arenas.

Most of the games you're mentioning have their levels consisting in arenas. Mirror's edge is a nice game with good shortcuts and some out of the box thinking going on, but it's a platformer, it's mostly linear paths.

Can you redraw the map of a level of Mirror's edge or Halo without looking? Can you redraw a full level of tomb raider?

Because I certainly can for almost all dungeons of OoT, excepting the few late game ones, almost the entirety of Dark souls 1.

>Yea, I mean it totally wasn't done in Soul Reaver at the Silenced Cathedral.

I took Deku Tree as it's the first dungeon and even if it's not complex there is already a lot going on
>Central web in the ground floor which can be broken from jumping off the last floor
>Cylinder main trunk you're climbing with spiders requiring the sling to get further up.
>Mechanics are organically taught, you're aiming with the sling, keep looking around
>The game teaches you what can be done with fire and deku sticks, you open a shortcut in the second half so you can burn the web blocking the final stretch.
>Boss requires using aiming, locking, just like the level taught you

It's simple and yet brilliant.

But you don't want to see that, you just want to shit on the game because it's too popular for your taste.

>>9646856
you're not

Recently started OoT, after playing all of the 2D Zeldas. Got as far as finishing the Water Temple before I gave up. I think I played enough to judge it. I actually liked the dungeons, but everything outside of the dungeons was annoying. Like an Infocom game - I can understand the appeal - but poorly written, and with a big empty field in the middle of it to slow everything down.
All the OoT fanboys seem to hate TP for being too "derivative" of OoT, so I tried out TP. I'm liking it lot more. I like the wolf sections. I like Midna. I like all of it. It's just a great game all around.
Things I find genuinely confusing:
>claims that OoT is the greatest game of all time
>claims that OoT is the best Zelda
>claims that OoT has amazing or even good graphics
>claims that OoT has a revolutionary control scheme
Have these people played any other game? Even any other Zelda?

>>9649376
Who are you calling a mongoloid? I'm agreeing with you

>>9649395
>The only thing Halo teaches you is to shoot the baddies before you
Halo is literally a platformer, oh but you didn't get good enough at the game to realise this. Funny how people like to call X game or Y game shallow whilst refusing to even humour the mechanics

>>9649392
I looked it up, it's time to stop being autistic.

>>9649395
>The only thing Halo teaches you is to shoot the baddies before you, it's visually good, but the levels are just arenas.
Absolutely laughing my ass off. The game revolves entirely around huge open levels, such as the Silent Cartographer and Assault on the Control Room, and Truth and Reconciliation, with plenty of vehicles, ascending large structures, and flying aerial vehicles. You have no idea what you're talking about and look like a down-syndrome retard.

>but it's a platformer, it's mostly linear paths.
Moving the goalposts. The game revolves entirely around verticality. Cope and dilate, tranny.

>Can you redraw the map of a level of Mirror's edge or Halo without looking?
They are far larger and more complex than anything in Zelda, so no. I'm sure you could easily draw Zelda's maps, because they're simple and straight forward.

>listing all of that nonsense
Yes, games are designed, amazing.

>>9649441
Wow, you had urbandictionary updated to support the use of the word that only you yourself use?

>>9649402
>like an infocom game
>poorly written

What the fuck are you talking about? Are you outing yourself for never having played one? That was one of the key factors that made Infocom games stand out so much, their excellent writing.

>>9646856
yea it's boring af

>>9647120
>All 3 had me quit before the tutorial area was over.
So you barely played the game anyway. You could at least get past that part and play a few dungeons or so before being this opinionated on a Zelda game.

>>9649423
>an argument between a guy that claim Halo is linear and a guy that claims Halo is a platformer
The amount of retarded shit people say on /vr/ just to be contrarian. The level of UMMM ACTUALLY on this board is absolutely idiotic

>>9649402
Sounds like you just don't get the appeal of open world games. Freedom itself is the reward. Wolf sections fucking suck because you don't tell me what to do, game, I need to be free

>>9649450
>more anger
There's nothing to discuss here. You're posting your monologs, saying that everyone but you is wrong.

I played Halo, I beat the game looooong ago, I remember there were long paths for vehicules, I even liked it back then, but it was never complex. It's a good game, I remember snatching a banshee in one of the final battles to go to beat the robot's ass, but I never felt like I was not following wide linear paths.

I feel like we are not even talking of the same thing here, I'm not sticking around either way. You won your internet argument, congrats.

>>9649508
You can jump 7 feet into the air in Halo and the map geometry provides plenty of application

>>9646856
Depends on what you're playing it for. The quest itself flows at a fairly brisk pace, especially after you get the Master Sword. The moment-to-moment gameplay though is on the slower side. The combat isn't particularly deep and rarely difficult, and the puzzles can involve going in and out of menus to swap items or slowly pushing blocks. If you're not sucked into what the game is, it's easy to not get the appeal. When it does click though, you're fucking hooked and you finally get it.

>>9647097
I dunno, the simplistic hero's journey story of the original Star Wars is very well executed.

>>9649589
>more anger
>there's nothing to discuss here
You're right, there isn't, especially not from disingenuous bad-faith actors who misrepresent games on purpose to win arguments.

>but I never felt like I was not following wide linear paths.
Okay, well in that case, Zelda's dungeons and progression system of the game is linear.

>>9649402
>All the OoT fanboys seem to hate TP for being too "derivative" of OoT
OOT fans like TP. It's MM and WW guys that don't care for TP because they prefer the more experimental Zelda games, and see TP as stale. As an OOTfag I like TP more than MM and WW because it's a polished, well-rounded game that plays to the Zelda series' strengths and has fantastic dungeons. Its main gimmick is more of a side element rather than the focal point of the game.

>>9649453
lol!

>>9649753
Fellow OoTfag, TP is good but it has cracks in the foundation that really hold it back. Still super fun to replay for the most part, the only part that seriously drags is all the fucking collectathon bullshit at Lake Hylia, especially compared to how empty the rest of Hyrule Field feels.

>>9649252
Tomb Raider isn't fun to play at all though. The controls just suck.

>>9649853
I wouldn't say they really hold it back that much, but they're there. My thing is I just think it's not very well-balanced, difficulty wise or economy wise. The only treasure you get is heart pieces or rupees, and you never need either because the enemies do paltry damage and you automatically shield when you target them. But OOT had those problems too to a lesser extent, like you almost never need rupees in OOT and by the end of the game you're untouchable, especially once you get the defense upgrade that further trivializes everything but Iron Knuckles and Ganon.

>>9649880
>the controls just suck
>smoothbrained retard doesn't know to use a controller

Embarassing.

>>9649901
that jumping looks like floaty shit

>>9649907
It's scary but you have to press a button to jump, unlike zeld which takes input out of the equation and jumps for you.

>>9646860
>nostalgia fagging
why don't you just admit its shit

>>9646856
its kinda gay and filled with useless shit that tries to make the game feel bigger, like wind waker

>>9649880
>game got shit ton of sequels and is still alive
maybe you suck

>>9647081
Citizen Kane has never been topped. And Alttp is still fun, is it because nobody improved upon its formula? I can’t think of a better top down 2D game.

>>9649892
OoT used resource gating to make getting treasures matter more, cuz you want Bows and Bombs and slingshot pellets when you're in a dungeon without having to run out. TP messes up that balance because of the advanced combat mechanics, which while very cool, remove a lot of the utility of consumables that contribute to running low in the dungeons and finding value in treasures and pickups that restock them or burning Rupees in town to stock up.
But the bigger issue with TP is that it feels extremely themeparky which makes the world feel less alive. Castle Town is fantastic because there's tons of background detail that's just there to look cool, but everywhere else consists mostly of storyline NPCs and little else.

>>9649963
>Citizen Kane has never been topped.
This is what Americans really think, huh?

>>9649880
Wrong, it's just a slow-paced game where your every jump should be thought out. It's not a 3D platformer, it's more of an exploration puzzle game

>>9650003
this, people who can't play tomb raider are retards

>>9649963
>Citizen Kane has never been topped
It's been topped thoroughly. That doesn't mean it's been lowered, though. Our standards have risen since the film came out, and Kane contributed to that rise. Kane's lasting contribution to cinema was its innovative visual and audio techniques to tell its story, which at the time was incomparable. But since then, everyone has copied it, and made new techniques since then. (Although it didn't really gain widespread appreciation until nearly 15 years after its release).

That doesn't mean it's bad, it's still a great movie. But everything that Kane perfected is part of cinema now; interlinked montages are so prevalent even shitty comedies have them, nobody even realizes there was a time before them. A modern viewer watching Kane can obviously still appreciate its story and the overall quality of the movie, but everything they're seeing they've seen in other movies countless times. The impact of the innovation is completely absent.

Ocarina of Time is the same way. It's been copied and elaborated upon countless times since then (most famously with Dark Souls), even by other subsequent Zelda titles. Imagine you're a kid who has grown up on BotW, you'd probably be somewhat disappointed with OoT.
>You mean I can't just climb up Death Mountain? I have to take the path?
>There's no item for me to glide or fly around the map?
>Epona is cool, but I can only use her in Hyrule Field and there aren't any other mounts I can ride?
>The Biggoron Sword is a fun quest, but I really wish I could just pick up the Iron Knuckle's big ass axe
etc etc