/vr/ - Retro Games

>>9642534
the pokemon in blue are basically all better, if you have to pick one go blue

I have red because when I went to Target right when the game came out they had a whole shipment of Red and no Blue. Blue was always my favorite color so I was bummed out about it.
I didn't understand that blastoise was the easiest starter, either.

>>9642534
red version
but trade your friend for blue for her vulpix, if you know what i mean- YEAH BABY YEAHHhHh

Red Eclusives:
>Ekans/Arbok
suc
>Oddish/Gloom/Vileplume
suc
>Mankey/Primeape
Okay
>Growlithe/Arcanine
okay
>Scyther
Cool as shit.
>Electabuzz
okay


Blue Exlusives:
>Sandshrew/Sandslash
suc
>Bellsprout/Weepinbell/Victreebel
okay
>Meowth/Persian
okay
>Vulpix/Ninetales
suc
>Pinsir
suc
>Magmar
suc

tldr; It won't matter at all, you steamroll everything with Nidoking with both of them.

Could have sworn only one of them had Starmie, which would have actually mattered, but I guess that's only for the remakes.

>>9642534
Personally I had Blue and then Yellow. Never ever played Red.

I like the color palette of red on the game world better than blue or yellow.

>>9642534
is there a hack where you can catch all the pokemon without trading?

>>9642587
This
Pokemon fucking sucks

>>9642587
>oddish
>suc
>meowth
>okay
confirmed shit list
>steamroll everything with Nidoking
then why not just steamroll with the starter?
confirmed retard

I prefer the version exclusives of Red.

Arbok > Sandslash
Vileplume = Victreebel
Primeape > Persian
Ninetales = Arcanine
Scyther > Pinsir
Electabuzz > Magmar

The one thing in favor of Blue is that the hardest pokemon to obtain - Porygon - only costs 6500 coins while in Red it costs 9999

>>9642534
I've always been a bluser and always will be.

>>9642534
picked blue because it's my favorite color

>>9642608
>not playing in the Super Game Boy palette

>>9642587
meowth persian are actually fuckin great in these games and vulpix / ninetales have high special and learn flamethrower early so are also really useful

Blue, for Ninetales

You say Ninetales is shit? Meet me and I'll punch your lights out.

Blue, for Ninetales

You say Ninetales is shit? Meet me and I'll slice your neck.

>>9642661
There are tons. I don't remember the exact name but I had a rom randomizer that had a setting to make sure everything was obtainable and changed link cable evolutions to level up ones. Compatible with all games up to gen 5

>>9642587
Pinsir is fucking awesome you retard.

>>9642534
Red because it was the last copy they had at the Software Etc. 30 minutes from my house in late 1998

>>9642537
Fpbp

>>9642534
Teach Blastoise ice beam and the game is piss easy. You can kill plant Pokémon and the rival can’t do a damn thing to you.

>>9642553
1. Blastoise isn't a starter, Squirtle is. It evolves into Blastoise, but you don't start with Blastoise.
2. Bulbasaur is the easiest starter.

>>9642608
>color palettes in a monochrome game on a monochrome game system
u wot

>>9643386
If you play them on a GBC it gives you color pallete(s). Yellow gives you a different pallete to match each town's color theme and I assumed Red and Blue did the same, but maybe not.

>>9643152
Ninetales is the gay kid's version of Arcanine

>>9643520
>Yellow gives you a different pallete to match each town's color theme
This is apparently exclusive to the western release of Yellow since the GBC was already out by then. The games before that default to a color matching the game's version.

>>9643383
>Bulbasaur is the easiest starter
Why does everyone say this? Because the first two gym leaders are weak to grass? Bulbasaur doesn't get an actual grass move (leech seed doesn't count) until level 13, Charmander with Ember can take Brock before that because his two mons have shit Special and have no Rock moves. Bulbasaur is absolutely the worst one.

>>9643520
Red/Blue on GBC don't have different colors. GB games on GBC use one color for sprites and another for backgrounds (usually red/blue, but there were different ones you could select by pressing buttons on the boot screen)

>>9643619
>leech seed doesn't count
Yes, if you ignore all the grass moves it learns then it surely never learns any.

>>9643626
leech seed doesn't do direct damage, it just saps HP. It doesn't hit for super effective and won't take down his pokemon any faster than just wailing on them with direct damage moves.

>>9643628
Fair enough. Honestly, I'm okay with it anyway because that just means my favorite starter wasn't easy mode after all. I always have to defend choosing Bulbasaur because I like it the most but everyone else calls it easy mode.

>>9643628
Following toxic with leech seed leads to some real tomfoolery, though

>>9643662
The real fuckery is Gen 1 Tentacruel/Arbok with Toxic/Wrap. I cleared so much of Pokemon Stadium with that combo.

>>9642534
fierce cannon turtle looked way cooler than the salamander

>>9643662
yes, but you aren't getting toxic before Brock.

>>9642587
Arbok gets glare, which is at least interesting. Plenty of options for poison for blue, not missing out. Sandshrew however is the best ground type pokemon in gen 1. Unless you go for speed abuse dugtrio. Cubone is solid too, but you get sandshrew earlier and it's better, so the winner Blue

Gloom getting petal dance makes it one of the best grass types in gen 1, weepinbell gets razor leaf, it's trash. Winner Red

Primeape is 2nd best fighting type in the game, getting one early in the game can be nice, persian is also possibly the 2nd best normal type, and has crit abuse and a great movepool so Tie.

Arcanine has fat stats, Ninetales has a few interesting moves, both fire, not really missing out over the other here another Tie

Pinsir vs Scyther, well, neither provide a counter to psychic. If we allow wing attack from yellow into play Scyther is the clear winner, otherwise its mostly a tie, but Id still edge scyther the winner since gets swords dance and such. So Red

Electabuzz and magmar both do the same thing. Just electric vs fire. I can't really call a winner here, so another tie. You don't get them in the same place, which is also interesting. One is in an area part of the main story, the other is not, but no major flaw or advantage on either.

Ultimately, red wins. I'll point out, if you want a grass type and you pick charmander or squirtle and play blue, you're fucked on grass, because bellsprout really sucks, petal dance vileplume is way better. Basically, scyther and vileplume clinch it for red. It's actually pretty balanced how they split it.

>>9643940
Porygon is 6500 coins at the game corner in blue vs 9999 in red. So there's that too at least.

>>9643940
>Gloom getting petal dance makes it one of the best grass types in gen 1, weepinbell gets razor leaf, it's trash. Winner Red
Razor Leaf is the best RBY grass attack by a large margin. Also:
>no mention of Persian at its absolute peak
It's like you have no idea how busted RBY crits are.

>>9642661
https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1108/

>>9643954
I now see that you did mention Persian crits, which makes your first statement that much more confounding.

Blue has better exclusives
But the red cartridge looks cooler and red's GBC palette is better

>>9643940
this post sucks. the best ground types in the gen 1 games are golem and rhydon, and they're available in both. they're dual typed but both way better than sandslash. persian kicks the shit out of primeape due to critical abuse and slash. fighting types arent good at all in RBY because their moves are terrible but if you had to pick one machamp is really your only option.

I'll give you the ties on the rest. Overall blue's mons are better imo

>>9643967
Pretty much everything he said was wrong on some level, so I'm confident it's (You) bait.

>>9643967
Primeape doesn't even learn any real fighting move in RB. Though in Yellow they gave it Low Kick, which is ok. Karate Chop, though normal type in gen 1, always crits so it's ok too. But yeah fighting Pokemon sucked before Brick Break and Cross Chop.

For me it's JP Blue, the ultimate Kanto experience

Is there a romhack that remakes Kanto in Gen 2 engine, or just does both regions fully? Maybe a bit of rebalancing?

>>9644073
Pokemon Red++

>>9642534
Red is cool for Growlithe/Arcanine and Scyther, but Blue is better for exclusives overall. I'm biased towards Red because I played it first as a kid, but I'd rather have Persian, Ninetail, and Sandslash so I'd go with Blue now.

Plus Squirtle is the best starter.

>>9644085
Thx

>>9644087
*Ninetales

>>9644045
JP Blue has 3 things going for it

>can get Golem through NPC trade
>can get Gengar through NPC trade

>can catch wild Jynx

otherwise it's inferior in every way to the western versions

>>9644087
>Plus Squirtle is the best starter.
nice try. real men choose charmander.... and then never use another pokeball again.

Meowth/Persian is the only way to acquire extra money in the game. Once you've beaten all trainers, the only money you can get otherwise is battling the E4 over and over.

The extra cash when using them in a playthrough is nice.

>>9644102
t. the glue eater kid

>>9644106
Money in Gen 1 is completely meaningless aside from buying your way to the Game Corner Pokemon.

>>9644097
>>9644045
oh and Kangaskhan can only be obtained from an NPC trade too but at least you can get it a bit earlier on iirc

>>9644110
extra cash for TMs and stuff is nice during a playthrough

>>9644120
same with Tauros, but honestly getting them on the Safari is such a pain that it's for the better

>>9644120
I don't remember ever using bought TMs in any playthrough of Gen 1. The game balance is jank enough that they're not really necessary if you know what you're doing.

>>9643617
>>9643623
That fucking sucks for all of the rest of you. Yellow's pallette shifting is the most iconic part of the original experience of playing these games as a kid, its burned into my mind.

>>9642534
Blue

>>9642587
>tldr; It won't matter at all, you steamroll everything with Nidoking with both of them.
Basically this kek the three starters are powerful af as well. Pick a starter, the correct move pool and badge boost glitch - you're done

>>9644106
Pay Day is a TM in RBY, though it’s a useless move.

>>9643954
Razor leaf is not the strong and victrebell is not that fast, it's not the same as slash persian. SE is still more reliable than crits, and normal isn't SE against anything.
>>9643967
those arent pure ground, those are rock/ground
>>9643978
submission is a buyable TM in gen 1. Even without glitches you have infinite access to submission. Circling back, fighting is pretty useful in gen 1 due to many trainers have normal pokemon, which primeape is SE against. Thus he'll handle ice, normal and rock more effectively than a persian.

>>9642534
Red++

>>9644187
Not as useless as the Softboiled TM. It's literally only usable by Chansey and Mew, and Chansey learns it by level-up anyway.

>>9643967
how is pinsir better than scyther?

>>9644187
you can use it to save your ass from a softlock at least. RBY is the only game in the series where you can softlock, done by accidentally spending all of your money and selling all of your items, and then not having any money left to buy a safari pass. If you do end up in that situation, then you can use pay day and grind it against shitmons in the early game to get the cash you need to buy the pass.

Blue because starmie.

>>9644561
>Razor leaf is not the strong and victrebell is not that fast, it's not the same as slash persian. SE is still more reliable than crits, and normal isn't SE against anything.
Razor Leaf is pretty much a guaranteed crit, even from something as 'slow' as Victreebel. Which makes it effectively a 110 BP move. which is absolutely insane. You have no idea what you're talking about, and you need to stop posting.

>>9644561
Submission sucks, recoil move with only 80 BP and only 80% accuracy. I never want to use moves like that while grinding through trainers

>>9644575
Softboiled has a use in competetive, though. Pay Day does not have any use, ever. It would be more economical to refight the E4 then to repeatedly use that shit. And you don't need money for anything anyway.

>>9644594
Yellow fixed that softlock by having the Safari Zone let you in for free after you nag the gate-clerk enough times, though with only one Safari Ball.

>>9644594
Pretty sure you can softlock yourself in GSC, because HGSS specifically added an NPC who gives you a Tentacool to escape from Olivine.

>>9644627
>to escape from Olivine
Cianwood, rather.

I'm pretty sure the only pokemon I really needed were blastoise and dugtrio

>>9642587
>>Scyther
>Cool as shit.
Based.

>>9644646
Diglett/Dugtrio is actually broken since they learn Dig at level 20, and it has 100 BP in gen 1, same as Earthquake. And Diglett is fast, so you sweep through everything.

>>9643619
You must not know shit about gen 1 mechanics. Venusaur gets access to leech seed + toxic which is absolutely broken in gen 1, and also razor leaf which will give you crits almost everytime. I recently played Pokemon Red and picked Bulbasaur and out of everyone on my team he absolutely stomped through the fucking game.

>>9642534
Blue and also pick Squirtle

>>9644681
Venusaur is good, but not 'carry the entire game on your back in record time' good like Blastoise. There's a reason that speedruns used to use Blastoise, and then later Nidoking.

In any case, anything is better than Shillizard.

>>9644818
I got Red at first as a kid because Charizard and red is a more badass color, but eventually I traded it for a Blue cart because of based Meowth

>>9645195
Noice.

>>9644608
It actually is 100% critical, the base speed is relevant only for who goes first. In an in game environment it wouldn't matter. That'd only matter for competitive. It should be pointed out, Vileplume is significantly slower. Petal Dance vs Razor Leaf in-game is not that different. 165 base damage vs 105, but razor leaf has 95% acc over petals 100. In game, well, I doubt you'll really notice a difference, except on fellow grass types, low level you won't notice much of a difference really, in competitive, Venusaur makes better use of it.

Most people talking about the Persian + Slash combo don't seem to get the brokenness of crits in gen 1. That combo is really good and standard on persian, but what was even better was Persian + Hyperbeam. It's not talked about because in competitive its more balanced, in game different story. This is a brokenness beyond anything else in the game. You had a 22% chance of doing a critical hyperbeam with Persian on an already STAB normal typed move. If you knocked out an opponent with hyper beam it eliminated the recharge effect allowing you to hyperbeam again. Persian can just continuously hyperbeam its what through the game, over 1 in 5 chance of even criting on rock types to fell them. Persian, Dodrio and Fearow can just utterly blast through the game.

>>9645420
Petal Dance in RBY is 70 BP. So not only are you doing less damage than Razor Leaf by 35 BP, you are locking yourself into a move that you can't switch out of, and then becoming confused. There is no way that you can possibly think that this is a good thing, so I will just tell you to shut the fuck up and stop trolling for (You)s like a 14-year-old with emotional problems.

>tfw Gengar was your favorite Pokemon but you didn't have anyone to trade with
Haunter's sprite looked way cooler in Gen 1 anyway.

>>9645427
Holy shit, you really don't get it, you are not taking into account the opponents you will fight. Legit you will not notice much of a difference in 35 base power in a play through. Confuse and locked isn't that big of a deal on trainers with 2-3 pokemon. I supposed you have no idea about nidoking speedruns if you think this is so debilitating. Thrash, Petal dance, they are totally worth using in game. Again, vileplume is bad in competitive like I said, if you could read. I am not trying to linger in the competitive scene by point out actual gen 1 play throughs. You're talking like use thunder over thunderbolt, which really as you out level the storyline of the game you don't need thunder, thunderbolt is fine. In an even playing field what you'd be saying is true, like in competitive, but the main game is not an even playing field. Stop being a fucking r-tard and play the game.

I used to take Ice Beam and Blizzard against the E4, specifically against Lance. When I played JPN Blue romhack I realized Ice Punch is more than good enough.

We were robbed of a cool mon by having Jynx locked behind an NPC trade. Good thing they fixed that in JPN Blue and gen2.

>>9645574
Playing with Gengar in JPN Blue was tons of fun

>>9642534
Yellow.

>>9645905
>We were robbed of a cool mon by having Jynx locked behind an NPC trade.
Yeah, I always hated using NPC trade pokemon because I couldn't name them and they always came with stupid all caps names I couldn't change. I just got them for the pokedex and boxed them.

>>9645420
It's cool that there's a lot of broken stuff I didn't know about despite playing these games many times. Aside from using my starter like almost everyone else, I would just pick up Zapdos and Articuno and you can easily clear everything. Then I'd get a Dugtrio to learn earthquake for Agatha.

>>9642534
Electabuzz is still my favorite Pokemon.
Red wins.

>>9646451
both Electabuzz and Magmar are in JPN Blue, so Blue still wins

>>9645646
i think you are autistic because you're really locked into a stupid fucking argument you can't seem to see past. your original post was saying gloom + vileplume were better than weepinbell/victreebel because of petal dance. when it was pointed out that petal dance is worse in literally every way than razor leaf in gen 1, you've somehow moved to "you will barely notice if a move is literally 50% stronger than another while not locking you into using it repeatedly and confusing you." this is objective, man. I'm not even the person you replied to. i think you're just stupid

>>9643619
Because he resists to the first three gyms

>>9646458
JP Blue != EN Blue

>>9646516
>thrash is trash
watch a speed run some time.

>>9646532
Bulbasaur does not resist rock, but brock doesn't use rock moves anyway. Bulbasaur can tank Misty, surge and Erika pretty well. You can skip Surge and Erika for a while though, you really only have to do brock and misty to keep moving on. I'd say it goes Squirtle, Bulbasaur, Charmander. Brock is not that much harder or easier for Bulbasaur or Charmander.

>>9642534
They're basically the same game.

I think its interesting how all three starters have different playstyles that all manage to have different pros and cons so that none of them truly feel hard if you play different ways. even beyond the "Bulbasaur resists the first three gyms, Charmander is weak to the first 2(possibly 3 if you grind him to Charizard before Lt. surge)
Bulbasaur is great for defensive and stat changing/stalling play. Just the fact that he reissts a lot of common types and has a big spongey HP makes him perfect for the typical G1 grind method of "weak Pokemon first turn, then switch". also has a surprisingly high Special/attack, which means it can hold its own.Just solid for learning game mechanics.
Squirtle is a nice balanced middle ground between defense, special and attack, learns the biggest variety of moves and can cover most types buy itself.
Charmander feels the easiest to grind with because so much of what you encounter are bug types and Pokemon witha weak special stat ; while his attack/special aren't actually higher than the Bulbasaur line his move pool centers more around stronger attacks early on. Feels geared towards players who just want to use damaging moves.

You can beat the game largely with just one of any of them, sure, but I'd say Bulbasaur is the easiest to build a team around early on, Charmander is good for grinding through the early game if you just want to muscle through with attacks until you can take advantage of mid game Pokemon that become available, and Squirtle is best if you largely want to focus on one -three Pokemon. But you can easily use Charmander to solo the game, or Squirtle to build a team around.
Personally, when I want to not use a starter I usually go with Charmander to grind through with ember, get a nidoran as a support until I can lean more on him and get to Cerulean and have access to all the Pokemon around there.

>>9643619
Bulbasaur is the best one not just because of the early game but also because Razor Leaf is literally busted and also there aren't any better grass types than Venusaur in the game. Blastoise is good but you'll be drowning in superior water types by the end of the game.

>>9647656
2/2
That said I do pick Squirtle in nuzlockes because his better defense makes it easier to win the first rival fight, and him learning Bubble early makes Brock less of a chore

sandshrew's in blue so

>>9647662
>win the first rival fight
I've never done a nuzlocke and somehow it didn't cross my mind until now that losing that very first fight would cause a reset.

>>9647726
Yeah it sucks, with Squirtle it's surprisingly consistent though. Just a couple tail whips and then switch to tackle and you can win pretty much every time

>>9647656
Exeggutor and Victreebell

>>9643940
>Arbok getting glare
Highly underappreciated, paired with fissure it's a decent gimmick, good enough to forgive arboks stats
>Sandslash the best ground
Based, even just having slash and Dig (100power in gen 1) on a sandshrew is amazing
>Gloom better BC of petal dance
Nah you smoking crack on that one, anything that can't be leafed can at least get smacked with body slam/hyper beam or wrapped, you could even go to the extent of setting up swords dance. Glooms poison moves do come handy in some scenarios throughout the game ill give it that
>Primeape 2nd best fighting
Agreed, but in my heart he's #1. too bad fighting as a whole is a terrible type in gen 1
>Arcanine vs ninetails
It's splitting hairs but ninetails edges out over arcanine. Arcanines huge attack doesn't benefit it's movepool, both dogs will have to 2 shot anything using physical moves. Ninetails better speed plays better for crithax and higher special ends up making it bulkier than arcanine while dishing out more damage.
>Scyther vs pinsir
Pinsir hits like a truck and scyther has speed/Crit hax. Both are pretty awful at the end of the day all things considered
>Magmar vs buzz
I only wish they made electabuzz a little more accessible, same with jynx idk why it doesn't permanently reside in seafoam islands

>>9647985
Tangela is really late game, but I always thought he was really cool. Still mad, all these years later, he from 100 special but then in GSC 100 sp.atk and 40 sp.def..... WHAT THE FUCK?! Why did they dump it's sp.def so hard? Should have been 80, would have been fine.

Parasect is also a grass type. Yea it's X4 weak to fire and flying, but flying is pretty rare in R/B/Y and fire is pretty easily avoided. Bug beats poison in R/B/Y. Leech life really eats on grass/poison types. Plus its one of the few things that beats psychic.

>>9648116
Once you know how to exploit minor things like the pokedoll /Pokemon tower thing, no pokemon in the game besides Moltres and Mewtwo is too late, really. Koga can be your third gym and you can get surf before tackling Silph Co or most of the routes leading to fushia. If you avoid trainers(which is cheap, but eh), you can go back and harvest all that EXP with all those late game pokemon you find at level 20-35 that tend to be hard to catch up. It makes the game really appealing to go back and replay to me, moreso than FR/LG or Gen II.

>>9646771
speed runs revolve around grinding one pokemon to a comic level so you can one shot everything, and thrash is good in that sense because you learn it immediately upon evolving nidoking so it's stronger than even most early STAB moves. it doesnt make petal dance good. your knowledge of speedrun strats only confirms your autism, speedrunning pokemon games (or any RPG) is the biggest waste of time i can imagine

>>9647613
i think bulbasaur is by far and away the best starter choice just because it makes it more fun to play with different teams. there are a huge number of water types in this game compared to others and a lot of them are great. there are a ton of water types that are better / more fun than blastoise. i can't say the same about grass types and venusaur

Bulbasaur is clearly the best, but not because any of the shit you have mentioned, simply because Sleep mechanics are absolutely busted in Gen 1 and sleep powder is game breaking on a pokemon with decent stats

>>9649051
>speedrunning pokemon games (or any RPG) is the biggest waste of time i can imagine
>your knowledge of speedrun strats only confirms your autism
And yet you claim to know more about it than me.....? Have fun wasting your time with that knowledge.

>>9649051
>The biggest waste of time is playing the game as quickly as possible
Yea it's a retarded way to the play the game but your equally as retarded

>>9649768
>practice for hundreds or even thousands of hours to do one run that takes 10 minutes
>not a huge fucking waste of time
>calling other people dumb

>>9649768
what he said was logically sound. people don't pick up games and one shot a speedrun, typically, speedrunners spend their entire lives figuring out glitches and optimizations to make the speedrun possible in the first place. some people speedrun a single game for literally decades. the retard here is y -

>your

nevermind it's bait

>>9649796
>nevermind
Is this also bait?

>>9649796
>speedrun strats have no viability in a casual playthrough
That's the actual logic here. If the argument is which pokemon is better and trying to argue niche uses of said pokemon, then things that work in speedruns are relevant. Otherwise fuck the red and blue pokemon all together, no debate, just use anything. If you're gonna argue an optimized persian, why the hell would another optimized pokemon not matter? That's some cherry picking. At the end of the day though, scyther and electabuzz are cooler and blue fags are blown the fuck out.

>>9649982
>scyther and electabuzz are cooler
Scyther may be the coolest bug type, but Ninetales is cooler than Arcanine, and if you wanted a cool electric type you'd use Raichu or Jolteon

If you're using glitches (why the fuck would you play gen 1 without glitches) then go for Blue since the only red exclusive that sucks to get with the mew glitch is Bellsprout. Pretty much everything else is trivial to get, especially Scyther, Scyther is like one of the first mew glitch pokemon you can get.

>blue pokemon game>

>>9650189
>Ninetales is cooler than Arcanine
Preening faggot. Nobody thinks this.

>>9650626
Ninetales has a dark edgy story and pure red eyes, Arcanine is just described as a "beautiful dog", and foxes are infinitely cooler than chows either way.

>>9650626
Ninetales has a dark edgy story and pure red eyes, Arcanine is just described as a "beautiful dog", and foxes are infinitely cooler than chows either way.

>Very smart and very vengeful. Grabbing one of its many tails could result in a 1000-year curse.
Vs.
>A Pokémon that has been admired since the past for its beauty. It runs agilely as if on wings.
Yeah, Ninetales is just cooler both as an animal and in terms of it's story.

>>9650189
yea but fire type sucks period and blue gets another one. Electabuzz + vaporeon is a way cooler combo than magmar + jolteon.

>>9650720
The fluff doesn't matter. Ninetails looks like a bitch and Arcanine looks cool.

>>9644675
And you catch Dugtrio extremely overleveled.

>>9645646
>Confuse and locked isn't that big of a deal on trainers with 2-3 pokemon.
What about the trainers with more than 3 pokemon? Do you 40 base power mega drain? 80 attack body slam? Either way that's awful.

Thrash on Nido is really only useful when it's one shotting everything without needing a boost early. Towards the mid to late game runners always switch it out for other TMs with more coverage.

What's the earliest you can get a Leaf Stone? If it's not until Celadon then that alone makes Vileplume completely useless.

>>9650830
are doing a vileplume solo run? You're making up issues you shouldn't have.

>>9650849
by that same account, so is victrebell

>>9650720
>foxes are infinitely cooler
do you mean irl? Because foxes are nothing but a nuisance in many places. They fuck with your trash. We have a dog to sort them out.

>>9650782
>Electabuzz + vaporeon is a way cooler combo than magmar + jolteon.
Neither Electabuzz or Magmar are cool and Jolteon is the coolest Eveelution, even today only Umbreon rivals it
>>9650783
>Ninetails looks like a bitch and Arcanine looks cool.
Shit taste desu, domesticated show dogs are not cool. Foxes and wolves are cool.

>>9651053
I'll give you flareon is not thought out well, believe me, I wish flareon was cool, but yea its high atk is neat, but mostly wasted and bad, bu t vaporeon is pretty neat in gen 1 and 2. Jolteon is neat to, pin missle, double kick, it's got interesting stuff. Vaporeon is one of the only mammal like pokemon in gen 1 and it's tank like build is more.

If Magmar isnt cool, neither is arcanine or ninetales.

>>9650849
Keep in mind you can get to Celadon just two badges in, you'd only need to have beaten misty and gotten HM cut from the SS anne.

>>9651112
>If Magmar isnt cool, neither is arcanine or ninetales.
Why do you think that? To me, Magmar just looks stupid, much like Electabuzz, to me they both always looked dumb. They somehow managed to pull off "humanoid duck" and make it cool one time with Golduck, but Magmar is just pushing it.

>>9650720
>Arcanine is just described as a "beautiful dog"
It's literally called THE legendary pokémon and it's considered magnificent and majestic. People fear and respect it, yet can't help wanting to witness its beauty.
Meanwhile Ninetales is just a fox pokémon that has some stories made up about it and those stories make it sound old and bitter enough to hold a grudge. People want to avoid it.
(I actually like both, variants included. Arcanine is just a bit cooler.)

>>9651053
>Foxes are cool.
They are pitiful disease-ridden vermin. Throughout history, humanity has thought of them as untrustworthy liars and cowards.
>Wolves are cool.
Agreed on this, which is exactly why humans wanted to domesticate them instead of foxes.

>>9652051
Magmar is a dynamic monster, arcanine and ninetales are just dogs with fire powers. If you're gonna argue the need for a fire type on your team it shouldn't matter which you use, mostly, you don't need fire period .

>>9643962
Razor Leaf has high crit ratio
Venusaur and Victreebel can get big crits with Razor Leaf

>>9644594
RSE you can softlock in Pacifidlog Town
there’s some tiny island in the DPPt postgame where you can softlock too

>>9644675
>>9650808
don’t forget about Slash

>>9642534
both, gotta catch em all.

>>9652202
I mean Ninetales' supernatural element is even further implied by the fact that it learns a ghost move. If Ninetales was made with a second typing back then, fire/ghost would fit it, while Arcanine would probably be most fit for fire/normal.

I think we can just agree we have different ideas of what is cooler or not. Arcanine might be considered majestic or regal, but Ninetales is dark and mystical...which is much cooler to me.

>>9652685
I think both Arcanine and Ninetales are cooler than Magmar, I think Rapidash is cooler than Magmar, I actually think Magmar is the least cool fire type in gen 1. Magmar might be more of a strange "kaiju" type of monster design and if you prefer that to mythical animals that's fine, but it's just a dorky one to me, not a cool one like say Nidoking. Electabuzz is similarly goofy looking to me, but it is saved from being the least cool electric type since Voltorb and Magnemite are both the least cool type of Pokemon design aka "constructs"/living objects.

>>9643383
>1. Blastoise isn't a starter, Squirtle is. It evolves into Blastoise
AKCHUALLY it evolves into Wartortle, which then evolves into Blastoise

>>9652826
N

>>9642587
Both versions got great exclusives. I like all gen 1 mons design wise. Maybe they aren't the best but I always have a soft spot for those first gen mons.

>>9642534
>anything but Turok

Gen 1 was the final gen to have three good starters

>>9654095
?

>>9650849
I thought Vileplume evolved from trading

>>9654095
Was this in the wrong thread? I love Turok, based game, but it's so wildly unrelated here

>>9644121
it's way better.
The rattata for a poliwag early on is really nice too. As the game was limited on water types, it was basically grind a magikarp, rush to eevee with a water stone, or pick squirtle. Being able to use an level rattata to transfer to poliwag is really nice.

Blue

>>9655148
Gen 3 and 4 starters are all great

>>9655148
Who's the third person

>>9659731
the abandoned female player character, who was adapted for the manga.

>>9642661
you can do it in the base game with trainer fly glitch and ditto special abuse

>>9659731
Green

>>9642587
>>9643940
You faggots are missing the forest for the trees here.
It doesn't matter which exclusives are stronger.
The only thing that matters is which ones you think are COOLER

>>9655148
>red has grass type
>blue has fire type
>green has water type
wtf were you thinking sugimori?

>>9642534
These games are criminally underrated :(

>>9661403
It's because Blue and Green's named were flipped for international audiences.
Green is supposed to be the rival boy, and Blue is supposed to be the girl (who never actually shows up in the games anyway).
You could say Blue should have a Squirtle, but from a Japanese perspective, he should be using a Bulbasaur.
But if Red used the Charmander and the rival used Bulbasaur, that wouldn't make sense either, because the rival always chooses whatever Pokémon has an advantage against Red's choice of starter.
It's actually a pretty fucked up image.

>>9661396
apparently you don't get that it is splitting hairs, so it IS what I think is cooler.

>>9644097
>otherwise it's inferior in every way to the western versions
elaborate

>>9646458
false. electabuzz is exclusive to red and magmar is exclusive to green/international blue.

>>9655148
Bulbasaur and Squirtle are cool, Charmander is fucking shit

>>9661947
contrarian Charmander shitting is so played out.

>>9662159
>noooo stop making fun of my potbellied manlet dragon! It heckin’ breathes fire!!!

>>9642587
>oddish
>sucks

Literally the most useful early pokemon, what is wrong with you

>>9642534
The Soulful Deluxe version

>Oddish
>sucks

>>9661920
Outside of the cool NPC trades and having Jynx in the wild (in a late game location mind you), the selection of mons is just worse than either of the original 2 versions; and as a whole JP Blue just doesn't have enough unique content to warrant a new version, unlike Yellow which has new cutscenes and changes quite a lot of battles throughout the game.

It's still a nice novelty to play through it if you've played the western R/B/Y often enough

>>9663523
yeah I swept Misty with a level 20 Oddish using Absorb. nothing else necessary

>>9663530
if not for glitches and general game editing, JP blue is the best solo adventure because of the in game trades. I fully agree with nicknames on them sucking and being a terrible thing that should be changeable, but having access to Gengar and Golem is great. Poliwag before rods, Safari zone mons from trade, and so on. It opens the game up more. Yellow gets machamp, but the rest are worse, much worse. You have to get rid of a rarer mon for a more common on. Mr.Mime is hilariously the in-game trade staple for all of them. As a self contained RPG, no outside trades, for tram plotting, jp blue is the best.

If you want to argue yellow for having all 3 starters, sure, but I just don't care for that. I will always fall back to it should be a choice, it helps guide your run. They're all optional in yellow anyway, and the mandatory choice in RB is too interesting to me. The rival changing based on win/lose/draw is incredibly compelling. That his eevee form is dictated by how you do against him. That is a huge highlight of yellow, something I wish pokemon used again, but I think its actually unique among the series .

>>9663523
Have fun relying on a 40 BP move until level fucking 38. There are better options for sleep.

>>9664396
what are the better sleep options then?

>>9665102
Butterfree gives it to you sooner and you immediately have a 50 BP Psychic move as well. If you want something that can actually attack for shit, you've got Haunter/Gengar and Exeggutor.

>>9665161
Oh and Jynx, if you want to ingame trade for that.

>>9662423
nah, oddish is straight up worse than ratata
>>9663802
even level 20 raticate will 1 shot all of misty's shit with hyperfang, it can also learn watergun/bubble beam and dig tms unlike oddish...

>>9665258
>this rodent brain
Post your final shot of Raticate over the E4. You crazy bastard.

>>9665258
>gotta one shot to be good
gtfo here. Oh no a battle might take a little time to win. This isn't struggle bus with magikarp, it's viable strats.

>>9665272
this was my champion rat

>>9665361
and his movelist

Why are the game characters better then show and manga

>>9665361
>>9665363
Nice. Now what compelled you to do this?

>>9665363
Fuck yeah, good shit. I got my farfetchd with a shit move set but for some reason he still wrecks. I think it's the stab of his normal with skullbash plus critical hits with slash

>>9665438
>Skull Bash
Aw, you're retarded.

>>9665448
It just works. In game that is I never meant to have a team of competitive Pokemon. More just seeing how shitty of a pokemon can still wrecks rby.

>>9665481
I mean, you can totally make shitmons work. But you're just wasting your time with shit moves like Skull Bash.

>>9665419
It was my starter basically, I restricted myself to use only weaker pokemon and in the process i discovered how powerful and versatile this rat really is. Unfortunately its low stats really do start to show at the end-game and obviously you need significant tm investment. Hyper beam or dig will make almost any pokemon pretty capable, especially normal or ground types respectively.

>>9665512
>Hyper beam
Nigger, not only do you have to waste your entire wallet on this, but it's extremely time consuming even with emulators. This 5 PP move isn't worth it.

>>9665438
Slash is the strongest move in the game besides hyper beam. Obviously it's going to be quite good even on a weaker pokemon.

>>9665515
In gen 1 it doesn't have recharge if you kill with it making it imo, the strongest move in the game.

It only took like 1 minute to buy with turbo/speedup and though it is outrageously pricey wtf else are you gonna spend that money on? protein?

>>9665534
Wrong, both Self-Destruct and Explosion are stronger. Also a STAB user of any 90+ BP is instantly stronger than Slash, even with crits.

>>9665541
>It only took like 1 minute to buy with turbo/speedup and though it is outrageously pricey wtf else are you gonna spend that money on? protein?
Speedup is cheating. I don't cheat so I can have a 5PP super move.

>>9665543
yea, Dugtrio and persian make the best use of slash.

>>9665667
Dugtrio can't do shit.

>>9665686
The only worthwhile trio is dodrio. Tri attack, fly, drill peck with stab

>>9665715

>>9665686
it's one of the fastest pokemon you retard, it's EQs have 23% chance of criting

>>9665814
He also dies when I sneeze on him.

>>9665504
Suggest a move to replace it, then.

>>9665915
he's as hardy as an alakazam or hitmonlee or something else that's a speedy attacker, he's fine.

>>9643701
What’s the point you’re making to that anon? You can just train a butterfree or something for Brock you don’t need any of the starters technically. I started with charmander and that’s how I got through it as a kid.

>>9661396
You got the fucking expression wrong what the FUCK is wrong with you how many years have you been saying it that way to people?

>>9666324
Because the original post was in regards to the first gym.