/vr/ - Retro Games

I don't have adhd

Play on hardware without it.

>>9636142
Just don't use it? I never knew rewind was a thing until I saw people talking about it. It seems more cheating than using save state.

>>9636142
typically if i have to enable cheats to have fun with a game i'd rather play something more well designed. if it's well designed and it's still a game where i die a lot, then i'm having fun, and i don't really care how much IRL time it takes to beat it. I don't have a timeframe that i'm required to beat a game in, it's supposed to be fun. It's a game, not "content"

>>9636171
this
no memory chads

I just don't do it.

>>9636142
Never use save states, however I will abuse quicksaves if they are in the game

>>9636142
The consoles I play on don’t have those options, so it’s pretty easy to not use them

>>9636142
>rewind
Resist? Racing games have started removing it because of many complaints.

i dont. i embrace it. i dont have any original hardware anymore and im just autistically playing the same games as always over and over and i dont care anymore

Because I'm not autistic, so I play games for fun instead of just to get them over with as fast as possible so I can cross them off my checklist of games I can pretend to have beaten.

>>9636142
By setting rules for my playthroughs. The moment I start using them, it becomes a "cheated playthrough" in my mind.

Mike Matei scolded me, and I've never considered using it since.

>>9636142
Unbind the button if you can't control yourself.

>>9636217
Based. If Mike Matei doesn't think I beat the game, I didn't beat the game.

>>9636238
He owns Sapphire for PC Engine CDROM2

>not creating personal checkpoints to maximize the experience you found personally fun

motherfuckers in this thread play pokemon without fast forward for some feeling of authenticity and internet validation

>>9636297
Why bother playing JRPGS then? They don't have special story or anything. Its about the journey zoomie. When I use fast forward it doesn't feel like my journey.

>>9636297
I can see fast forward for really braindead rpgs like pokemon. In more involved rpgs, it is more fun to play without fast forward. Playing without fast forward involves mixing up your strategy, knowing monster weaknesses, buffing to take the least amount of damage, crowd control to shun off groups of enemies, it requires attention and decision making. If you play with fast forward, it's just spamming physical attacks and then healing when you are almost dead, it takes all the fun away.

>>9636142
I don't

>>9636142
Maturity. Took me a while.

>>9636142
I use them when the game makes me mad.

because it makes me feel like i actually beat the game when i don't use them. i've noticed that a ton of rereleases include rewind/savestates and it feels so cheap to me, like the company doesn't even stand behind it's own product.

>>9636142
Discipline is really just the only way. I used to save way too often playing Doom, and I realized it was increasingly cramping my fun, so I moved towards saving less. So, like at the start or end of a level, optionally right after a tough as nails fight, optionally right before one's coming up.

Determination is your key.

>>9636146
I envy you, that shit is like a witch's curse.

>>9636323
>They don't have special story or anything
A JRPG without a good story is about as worthwhile as a summer ant.
You might as well watch TV.

>>9636142
i don't :^)

>>9636142
By not being a faggot.
Next thread!

>>9636142
>rewind
never, mainly because i forget it even exists, and save states make more sense to me
>save states
i use them if i start chimping out at a particular part of a level, because then im not having fun. outside of that, i just play normally,
self-control is a virtue worth cultivating.

>>9636297
Anyone who's played Pokemon Stadium has played sped up Pokemon on actual hardware

>>9636374
When I played R-Type on my family's Sega, when I got mad at the game I'd use the invincibility code and go destroy everything and be like "Hah, take that, game!"

>>9636142
I used them when I first got emulators because it was novel and fun, but quickly went back to beating games normally. Much more fun that way.

>>9636297
speeding up the game on monotonous tasks to save time and rewinding back before you got hit so you can get hit a million more times are not the same thing. it's not about validation, authencity, or anything like that.. if you rewind before you got hit.. did you really learn how to dodge that attack? are you getting better? oh that's not fair, that was cheap, i deserve another go, sure if that's the way you want to play then just say so. that's disingenuous. you and i think differently.

>me
if i'm playing any kinda game and i'm biting big wind, it's because i'm playing bad. i eventually learn to beat it because i'm picking up on stuff and applying learned muscle memory to this difficult situation.
>you
if you're playing any kinda game and you're just absolutely fuming to the point of loading states at a feverish at an attempt to turn the tides, that's you and only you. you're your worst enemy. not the enemies, cheap stages, or bosses. just you.

now eat this fucking crow. say grace. chew and swallow every bite. praise the lord.

>>9636776
Based. Sometimes you have to show the game who's boss.

>>9636297
>pokemon without fast forward
holy shit, do they really?!

>>9636238
Is this a meme?

>>9636792
>if you rewind before you got hit.. did you really learn how to dodge that attack?
Yes, because if you don't learn how to dodge it then you'll just get hit again and become stuck in a rewind loop until you learn how to not get hit. It's actually a much faster way to learn.

Without rewind, you either take the hit without dying and keep moving forward having learned little-to-nothing until next time or you die and restart the entire stage and have to replay until you get to the part where you died and try not to die.

With rewind, you get hit and then immediately rewind so you can analyze what hit you and why, then keep rewinding until you know exactly how to avoid it. It's the same practice loop as above, just done immediately instead of spread out over a long period of time.

>>9637396
i wonder if abusing rewind might make you a more capable speedrunner eventually

>>9637417
It's literally how speedrunners practice. They practice individual segments through savestates and hacked roms, not just by restarting the whole game every time.

Who cares?
Now I have way less free time to play, so I use savestates when I feel like there could be something ahead and I don't want to play 10 minutes to reach that point again if I die.
I now also usually speed up rpg.

>>9636142
Because it is a hobby and I have no hurry, even if free time is less year by year.
Save states and walkthroughs will just ruin my enjoyment.

>>9636209
>>9637542
This. Zoomzooms will never understand what playing video games is actually supposed to be like.

>check walkthrough for a game
>>okay so this part is really easy!!!
>no real explanation given
>find out later on in the guide the writer uses savestates and assumes you will too

>check """longplay""" on youtube
>beats the game in less than 20 mins and hardly ever gets hit
>>wow this guy got good!!
>author of the video pats himself in the back and says he's glad his skills help other players

>find out in comments the guy uses savestates, it's a goddamn TAS
>turns out 99% of """longplays"""" do this too, as admitted by "World of Longplay" admin

>all the zoomies now use the videos to claim old games are shit and be beaten in 15mins

Fuck. Save.States.

>>9636142
It's pretty easy. If I find the game is more fun if I use save states or rewinding, it's usually an indicator that it's a shitty game overall. Sometimes I'll save scum through the rest if it has neat looking graphics or something, but usually I just drop the game and play something else.

>>9637635
I don't understand wanting to watch people play games via video on YouTube, but why does it matter to you if they used save states or whatever to make a coherent video? Isn't the purpose of a long play to watch a full playthrough of a game? Correct me if I'm wrong, I have no clue and never watch these, but that seems like the point.

So then why would you want to sit through someone dying a bunch and replaying parts you've already seen? Is it meant to be a showcase of skill more than a showcase of the game's levels? Honest question, I have no idea why anyone would want to watch either, I just don't know which is the real reason.

>>9637635
>savestates
At least that's SOMETHING, a lot of arcade longplays use fucking invincibility cheats.

>>9636142
I’m not a retarded shitter nigger.
It’s really that simple

>>9637656
I think the real problem comes in when zoomers use that playthrough out of context to make judgements about the length or difficulty of a game they've never played for themselves.

>>9636238
Based. I only played Zelda 2 because Mike Matei said “if you like video games you’ll like Zelda 2” and after he said that I really enjoyed the game and it was like my 4th attempt trying to play it.
I’m not joking at all

>>9637882
Zoomers use savestates themselves anyway, the game would be equally long and difficult if they played themselves.

>>9637396
You are actually really low IQ I think you should see some sort of doctor

>>9637656
The problem is not explicitly saying that it's a TAS.

If you're not using tools, you have to specify it in the video description, otherwise it's assumed it's TAS. It should be the way around.

Nah, I rewind and also play qol improvement romhacks.

>>9637945
>qol
That looks like a retranslation.

>>9637972
not him, but for Zelda 2, a retranslation is a big qol. the only problem the game has is a few too vague of hints.

>>9636142
By using them excessively and then lying about it. Simple as.

>>9638002
Why would you lie about it?

>>9637635
I think the work of editing all the state loading out of the video seems harder than actually beating the game without save states.

Anyway, I kinda miss short videos showing only actually difficult parts. Or, better yet, showing those obscure secrets. It seems that, nowadays, everyone is doing either longplays or lame reviews.

>>9637928
Which is faster for improving understanding and muscle memory:
>Repeating the same small section over and over while paying attention to what you're seeing and doing
or
>Repeating a small section 1 time while paying attention to what you're seeing and doing, then going back through an entire previous section for 5 minutes before repeating the problem section 1 time
There is an objectively correct answer.

>>9638030
Because you don't want to hurt Mike Matei's feelings. Duh!

>>9636142
I use save states on alot of games. Like if theres a password system. Im not using it. Just save at the start of the level and call it a day. If its a game with no saves or passwords than i just dont

>>9638040
Your problem is thinking that the goal is to improve your understanding and muscle memory, when the goal is actually to perform under pressure without your nerves getting in the way. The point of replaying a previous section is to make you shakier and nervous.

>>9638054
The post I originally replied to literally says:
>i eventually learn to beat it because i'm picking up on stuff and applying learned muscle memory to this difficult situation.
Which is all much more quickly learned through immediate repetition. It's the difference between improving your free throw in basketball by throwing 100 free throws each day and improving your free throw by playing an entire game of basketball each day. One gives you distinctly fewer repetitions of what you're trying to improve. You need to practice the whole game, too, obviously, but these individual fundamental skills are best improved through maximum repetition. If you want to master dodging a specific boss's attack then the best thing you can do is rewind repeatedly until you've got all the cues and timings down. Practicing the game as a whole is a separate thing with a different practice method.

I use them when I'm getting frustrated and I don't use them when I am having fun.
I'm not a autistic retard that think you should play games like they were on release, I'm also not an adhd zoomer that can't take my time and replay some sections.

>>9638040
Seriously you really should see a doctor to check you out. Retardation is significantly under diagnosed you could be liable to significant financial compensation. This isn’t a negative thing

>>9638164
>autistic retard
You play using cheats I think the only retard here is you who wants some sort of validation for playing with cheats or outright denying it. It’s ok, it’s your game and your life.

>>9637997
No, not really. The official translation is a bit caveman-English as a result of often needing to force a good deal of info into a tiny text box, but it's fairly accurate.

>>9638252
>it’s your game and your life
The entire thread can be summed into this.

>>9637972
It’s got an exp curve adjustment to make sure everything gives at least some exp and none take it away on hit

>>9636142
I think that save states are good in moderation. I use them to save progress, not cheese boss fights. It really helps on older games with lives systems.

>>9636142
You don't since there's nothing wrong with them.

>>9636142
I try not to use them unless the game is really bullshit

>>9636142
I'm not mentally ill.

>>9636171
Came here to post this, thanks anon

>>9637396
hahaha no desert until you finish the main course

>>9636323
Most jrpg have shit combat, thought. It's literslly numbers going up. So I hope thr plot is not shit.

>>9639000
I'm not admitting to being wrong because I'm not wrong. I don't think you understand what it means to eat crow. You didn't even offer a rebuttal to my point, so how could I think I was wrong?

I use save states to practice, then do 1ccs without them

>>9637635
>check """longplay""" on youtube
Please, someone, help me. How the fuck can i erase "longplay" from my searchs? I get that damn shit in every game search i make. I have never clicked in one of those but once. Saw that was a retard making retarded choices and going in circlets to make his run longer. Now i can not get rid of this cancer.

>>9636209
This. I used to save scum the shit out of FF Tactics Advance to always get a hit even if I miss. Probably took the fun out of it for me.

Not save states or rewind, but there is one time I will almost always cheat in a game. When they expect you to do casino shit. Fuck casinos, fuck spending 3-10 hours waiting for slot machines to spit out enough tokens. Usually it’s not necessary to beat the game, but there have been a few games where it was and it was a complete waste of time. I’ll cheat for the tokens now.

>>9639886
Valid. I've done that kind of practicing with the game muted with this looping in the background.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p44G0U4sLCE

>>9639904
It's as simple as adding -longplay to the search querry. Using the - to deduct terms and phrases these days is also pretty much necessary to use Google to find anything which isn't a popular product or on a Wiki somewhere. Use just - for omitting single words, and then use quotes for omitting by phrase, such as:
>Castlevania -longplay -"let's play" -"niggers tongue my anus"
etc

I hate Google a lot, and I hope that one day they get struck by a comet which is just big enough to level their headquarters and kill all the staff inside, but leave everything around it unscathed. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

>>9636142
I don't know the keybinds, and I'm too lazy to figure them out.

>>9640816
>now I am become bussin

>how do you resist using cheat codes?
Uhhh because they take the challenge and authentic experience away? Really not that hard to see.

>>9639886
Your 1CC is invalid because you cheated to acquire the knowledge required to perform it. You will never be able to un-learn that knowledge, too.

Congratulations, you robbed yourself of the victory you were seeking.

>>9637396
The mental gymnastics lmfao

>>9636792
Excruciatingly based

>>9636142
I don't resist anything, I just don't like to use it

>>9640856
Is it mental gymnastics to say that throwing 100 free-throws in a row is better free-throw practice than playing an entire game of basketball? The latter will take significantly more time but offer significantly fewer chances for a free-throw. If you want to practice beating one specific section of a game, it's better and faster practice to repeat that section over and over than to restart the entire game each time.

To use a more video game oriented analogy, competitive fighting game players go into practice mode and repeatedly practice inputs for the same move or combo repeatedly for long stretches of time. That way when the pressure is on during a real game they're less likely to drop their inputs. Playing a whole match is also practice, but if you want to practice one move the best thing to do is just repeat it over and over, same goes for rewinding a single segment repeatedly until you have it down.

>>9636142
In the case of the Chrystler Tower in Parasite Eve, I don't. Fuck only being able to save every 10 floors when it's a randomized maze with no map function.

>>9636297
>not creating personal checkpoints to maximize the experience you found personally fun
That's mostly a relic of back when you could only have so many saves on a memory card. Not really relevant anymore when shit like the PC version of FFIX gives you enough save slots for literally every save moogle in the game to get its own slot.

Resist? Why would I resist it when the game starts wasting my time? If I get good enough at the game to repeatedly reach the final boss but die numerous times trying to beat him, I will use save states. Double Dragon's Machine Gun Willy will never not be a terrible boss fight, then again the game's generally just a pushover until that section anyway.

>>9640884
Git gud.

Why do zoomzooms always blame the game for them sucking at it?

>>9636142
I use save states when playing the GBA Fire Emblems and I still feel like I win the games fair and square

Just call me Jared Leto's The Joker.

>>9640949
It's not cheating, you're just saving up time

>>9640949
Might as well just increase your ruppes via hex edit in game.

>>9636142
By playing on original carts and original hardware.

>>9640884
Don't forget the running speed like you're trudging through water.

instead of using them, I don't use them
when I play and the game tells me to push A or left or whatever and it doesn't tell me to push F5 or F7 or whatever, then
I push A or left
that is how

>>9640935
I beat Maya, I don't think I can get much better.

>>9641027
Eh you kinda get used to it by that point.

>>9640839
>>9640816

>>9637396
Goddamn, you "people" are beyond satire.

>>9641371
>I'm not trying to impress someone
I love how they say that after they went on the Internet to tell people they beat a video game and got butthurt because the Internet responded by saying they didn't.

>>9641371

>>9636142
If the game is not fun without those, I simply move on to something that respects my time instead.
I mean, I already have about 1k games so there's no point sticking to one

>>9636297
This one is impossible to go back to. Theres no reason to (re)play Pokemon games at their normal (slow) speed.

>>9641435
reddit is more your speed. I heard they even welcome trannies so you'll feel right a t home.

>>9641474
"Developer's intent" is just a dumb argument because even when the games were new we had non-standard controllers, turbo functions, game genie... you didn't even have to play the "intended" way back then, so why limit yourself now? People have always used the technology and conveniences available to them.

>>9641435
If you need to cheat at a hobby to have fun you should probably find a hobby you think is actually fun to begin with instead.

>>9641667
See: >>9641505
There have always been tools to bypass annoyances in games, even on original hardware before emulation ever existed.

>>9636142
The games I play don't tempt me. I appreciate fast forward sometimes.

>>9640847
>>9640848
>>9641371
>>9641667
There's no prior reason to prefer the intended/official experience. Especially not in vidya, of all things.

>>9636142
By actually enjoying games, with all the ups and downs they are designed with.

I used it to memorize the Yellow Devil's pattern in MM1. On a normal run I'll just use the pause glitch anyway so it's not like I'm cheating any less than usual.

>>9636146
Last time i abuse save states was with the shitty ass plant boss in Metroid Fusion only because of the glitchy ass floor trap.

>gambling mini game
>save state
>pick any choice
>lose
>load state
>pick winning choice
>free money

I'll never feel bad about exploiting this.

>>9640848
autism

>>9641667
What if cheating, and people getting angry because you're cheating, is what's fun to you? Espeically in online multiplayer.

Dumb, but you still have to actually learn to play the game most of the time.

>>9642095
Then your hobby isn't video game, it's making people mad.

>>9637635
I'm sorry people have lives and five people on youtube have made fun of your childhood.

You'll get over it eventually.

>>9636204
Let this be the YOU that gets your ass moving and exercising and feeling good again. Been there. It all starts with getting moving again. Small steps.

>>9641667
Playing video games isn't a hobby

>>9636142
I feel like a little bitch by using them. And I ain't no bitch. Simple as.

>>9641895
>glitchy
It's not glitchy. Water pulls you down unless you have the gravity suit, and Nettori's flowers do the damage.

>>9640941
It's the participation trophy mindset. They're used to not losing because that would cause anxiety in their sensitive souls. They literally grew up with those values. So no they feel entitled to winning everything, and if they don't they throw a tantrum and screech how you're the butthurt loser.

>>9642095
Then you need to go see a therapist for your personality disorder.

>>9642847
This basically. I dropped save states a long time ago. Recently replayed Donkey Kong Country and it's so much more intense. Knowing you'll have to do the fucking boss fight and the four levels after that again ramps up the pressure and makes you focus much better. A save state playthrough is a pale comparison.

>>9643053
>Knowing you'll have to do the fucking boss fight and the four levels after that again ramps up the pressure and makes you focus much better.
That just means you suck at the game and didn't figure out how to farm infinite lives on the first level. The only reason you'd ever have a game over is a lack of time spent farming 1up balloons from the treehouse. And since you can farm lives unlimitedly with only time as a cost, why not just use rewind or savestates to save yourself that time?

/vr/ is exploding.
Boombaboombaboombaboom
Not much time left.
Boombaboombaboombaboom
It's gonna be gone.
Boombaboombaboombaboom

if you can use it, just use it. it's nice. idgaf what you people claim to think about it

>>9636142
Save states and rewind make playing a game worse for me. Playing becomes more tedious if I'm resetting over and over and over until I beat one section. It's exhausting and a chore.
Using save states as checkpoints is understandable, but I still don't do it because playing an entire section again just forces me to actually learn the game. Using them to prevent being sent to the title screen when I run out of continues in certain games is probably the only time I might use them.
Rewinding? You're literally not playing the game at that point.

>>9641371
i don't get it

>>9641435
now this one makes sense. no need to write a wall of text to say you had fun using them.

>>9636142
Original hardware Chad here, wtf is rewind and what’s wrong with using save points for games that have them?

>>9636171
this is the correct answer

>>9643213
>saying someone sucks for not exploiting an infinite lives glitch when they want to git gud
zoomer

>>9636142
I log into RetroAchievements with hardcore mode.

>>9643896
It's not a glitch. There's a 1up balloon in the first level that you can simply farm.

>>9636142
Save states are great

>>9643280
Fuck! I'm very anxious! Could you tell me exactly how much time is left? Like, seconds included?

>>9643213
Because I dont like to use exploits for the same reason as mentioned before? Fucking retard.

>>9636142
Learn some impulse control like an adult.

>>9641435
It will never cease to amuse me that purists will seethe so hard over how other people choose to play, i.e. something that has zero impact on their life whatsoever.
Talk about living rent free.

>>9636142
I use it all the time and it makes the games better. FF1 was made in a world where you had nothing better to do than stare at a pixel guy go whoosh whoosh with a sword for 10 second every turn during battle. We're not in that world anymore, I'd rather those whoosh whoosh animations happened in 1 second now. The game doesn't lose anything because of it does it, unless you see it as a piece of history rather than a game and yourself as a historian rather than a person trying to enjoy a game, then by all means

>>9646301
FF1 has multiple speed settings you fucking retard.

>>9646301
Oh wait OP is talking about rewind not fastforward, I got confused. Rewinding sounds stupid

>>9646313
>heh ACTUALLY you can make the 30 second combat take 15 seconds via options
Or I can make it take just 1. What exactly am I waiting for? I issued the commands, show me the results and let's move on. There's no gameplay in looking at the whoosh whoosh animation. Do you really sit through every summon animation in FF8? That would make FF8 absolutely insufferable and you would then go to /vr/ to complain about how much you hate that game like all the other purists. Or you can just make the game good with emulation.

>>9646107
>1up balloon exists in level where it's easy to get
>picking it up, leaving the level, and repeating is an "exploit"
Your definition of exploit is very, very loose.

>>9646321
>There's no gameplay in looking at the whoosh whoosh animation.
>there's no gameplay in walking a character from Point A to Point B
>there's no gameplay in story context
>there's no gameplay in graphical representations
>there's no gameplay in theming
Eventually you'll just be playing a spreadsheet of numbers, letters, probabilities, and equations where you press mathematical inputs to try to make numbers go up. The combat animations provide a certain amount of tension as you watch the results unfold in real time. You'll find that video games are mostly just illusions to trick our stupid monkey brains into caring about a bunch of nonsense numbers that don't ultimately mean anything. Once you start stripping away bits of that you end up with something less fun and engaging.

>>9646383
Let me say it like this then: I'm not picking up a ballon and exiting / entering a level 50 times BECAUSE I LIKE THE FUCKING CHALLENGE OF A VIDEO GAME

HOW HARD IS IT TO UNDERSTAND YOU FUCKING MONGOLOID

>>9641918
>Im ruining the intended balancing of a video game haha based
Cheats are cheats.

>>9646471
Except I can go into a level and slowly grind out mountains of money. But why should I waste my time when they include gambling mini games with the potential for easy riches? Someone playing on real hardware could ace every gamble on their first try and walk away with the same money as well.

>>9646417
You wrote all that but looking at whoosh whoosh in FF1 is still just as fucking boring. I'm not a historian, I'm a player of games. If there's a way to make a game more fun for me, I'll use it

>>9646537
The mental gymnastics is staggering.

>>9646471
Cheats are fine in SP games. Hating cheats is an MP player mentality. I've spent hundreds of hours playing around with GTA3-VC-SA cheats as a kid, they're not bad, they're great

>>9646417
>Eventually you'll just be playing a spreadsheet of numbers, letters, probabilities, and equations where you press mathematical inputs to try to make numbers go up
This is what competitive Pokemon has devolved into lol. Plus slot machine RNG for egg hatching.

>>9646549
Kay

>>9646550
Not talking about the fun cheats of GTA. I'm talking about having infinite lives in a 2D platformer for example, so you never need to replay a level or part. Which is what save states basically boil down to. Those games were designed with the learning process in mind. Eradicating this process leaves a pale husk of a video game. If you want to play it like that, be my guess, but I consider it an objectively inferior experience.

>>9646558
You'll never be good at video games. Your IQ is low. Accept it.

>>9646572
>good at video games
Being good at video games is the least important skill related to video games. Being able to make them is the most important one, but even understanding games and genres is more important than being good. Some guy who played every fighting game on a surface level knows more about fighting games than an autismo who's just very good Tekken 7. And guess what, if you play one game for a hundred hours trying to get good you won't have the time to truly comprehend entire genres and libraries. You have to cut corners somewhere to gain that industry wide understanding

>>9646583
Even good old Shiggy likes jazz music over video games.

>>9643898
>I log into RetroAchievements with hardcore mode.

This has been the only thing that works for me

I'm not a casual.

>>9636142
I don't because I know that no one will ever know or find out.

>>9646779
But I am. What you gonna do? Shoot me? In front of all this people? Go ahead! You're going straight to jail!

>>9646565
>objectively inferior experience

>>9646301
>We're not in that world anymore
I am

Unless you're doing RNG re-rolling on RPGs or just using save states as a "make your own infinite lives cheat" by only save-stating at checkpoints, just try going through a segment a few times with and without save states and you'll realize how much this shit fucks up the flow and makes you take 4 times the amount of time to do something 20% better (if even).

>>9636142
I don't.
Save states help me pick up right where I left off

I can live without this shit. Turbo speed on the other hand...

>>9646583
They weren't kidding about the mental gymnastics thing lmfao

There are a lot of people who watch Netflix at 1.5 speed because "it's quicker". A lot of people are just soulless consumers. Let them be.

>>9636191
lol
lmao

>>9636142
I am not a USA citizen or a mental illness person, so I can do what ever I want.
God Save the Queen

I hate to admit it, but I'm actually a bit of a god gamer. Don't need save states if you win after 3 or 4 tries

>>9636171
started doing this recently and man... it feels so good

>>9649352
More than one person posts here

>>9649427
>I hate to admit it
Is it because of me? I told you a hundred times: show it to the people! You keep locked up in your room, while others keep bragging around as if they knew how to play. They don't. Zoomers watching that EVO tournament thinking it's peak skill. It isn't. Everyone is completely blind, and I look like a fool when I tell them there's someone much better. Rise! Let's show to those losers!

>>9649867
Video games are all about how much time you invest in them. Esports players don't have to work and play the same game 17 hours day. They're definitely the best.

>>9649708
I know but
>I use save states to gain an industry wide understanding of video games
Is massive cope

>>9646417
>>9649360
Do you play stuff at half speed to make it even more soulful or is there literally nothing you will not say against engaging media on one's own terms

>>9646572
Crazy how entitled zoomers lack the drive to develop their skills at gambling minigames, unlike real and true gamers who can manifest coin flips through sheer INTJ bitterness or whatever

>>9649920
>They're definitely the best.
Among humans. But what if compared to a god? It's time to teach them humility.

>>9650081
>Do you play stuff at half speed to make it even more soulful
How about... the speed it was designed for? Crazy idea I know.

>through sheer INTJ bitterness
Hard to take someone seriously who believes in MBTI horoscope nonsense. Like what does this even mean? People who believe in MBTI are by definition NOT intuitive, but that's a whole nother story. Read 'The Psychological Types' by C.G. Jung if you actually want to know what the types are.

Anyway, gambling minigames are that... gambling. Rewinding kills the gambling aspect and rewards you disproportionally i.e. every time there is a gambling mini game, throwing the intended game design out of balance. You can play it however you like, but it's still an inferior experience. There are people who eat shit food and enjoy it, fine by me. But I have higher standards and when asked, I'll point out that their food is shit and my food is better because it's a more complex and whole experience. It really isn't that hard to understand.

>>9650325
It is crazy. The vidya industry's a petri dish. It's absurd to assert its products can't be improved.
>Hard to take someone seriously who believes in MBTI horoscope nonsense
Sorry next time I'll remember the /s so no child is left behind

>>9649419
>Britbong saying he can do whatever he wants because he's not an American Citizen.
The most retarded post in a thread with many worthy contenders.

>>9649360
>There are a lot of people who watch Netflix at 1.5 speed because "it's quicker".
I thought this was just someone trolling when I first heard of this. I hate zoomers so much.

>>9650692
Yeah it's pathetic. If you're actually fucking paying attention you can crank it up to x2 easily, sometimes x3. But nobody wants to actually invest in anything these days

>>9649924
I use them because I want to. I also happen to think that industry wide understanding of video games is more important than getting good at a game. You can start arguing against that point at any moment now...

>>9650797
I use emulation tools liberally, but "industry wide understanding of video games" is totally cope. You need to have explored the limits of at least a few games to "comprehend entire genres and libraries", which means you need to get good. And that's if any of that even matters; to most players, it probably doesn't, and it's silly to demand it of anyone who isn't a critic.

In my opinion save states are only acceptable in the following circumstances:

- For NES era games that lack a saving function or credit system. Using a save state at the beginning of a world / set of levels instead of starting over from the very beginning.
- To suspend your game and pick up where you left off (like leaving your console on overnight)
- As a replacement for passwords as they can be a hassle to put in

Otherwise it's unacceptable. Rewinds are always unacceptable for obvious reasons, as there also isn't a cognitive learning process if you instantly rewind. Your brain won't learn the patterns like that, despite what some people claim here.

Fastforwarding in JRPG's is understandable, especially for the NES era. But I avoid them.

Please consider occasions when emulated save functions are unreliable. A backup state alongside your actual save for safety.

>>9636323
>When I use fast forward it doesn't feel like my journey.
This. Not to mention the constant sped up high pitched music. Completely ruins the atmosphere and mood.

I took a shit a few hours ago.

>>9652116
Is this that "zoomer humor" I keep hearing about?

>>9652118
It was a pretty big dump.

>>9636142
I simply don't. I do use speedup sometimes though

If I have to resort to using savestates to win, that's a sign I don't actually enjoy the game.

>>9646321
If that's how you feel about FF1 you could just be playing better games.

>>9651702
>Rewinds are always unacceptable for obvious reasons, as there also isn't a cognitive learning process if you instantly rewind. Your brain won't learn the patterns like that, despite what some people claim here.
Did it not occur to you while writing that training modes akshually make you worse that it is possible to use time travel to have fun

>>9652018
Some people like JRPGs as RPGs. The guy I know who likes FF1 first played through normally like a good boy. Now he randomizes it.

>>9653032
>Did it not occur to you while writing that training modes akshually make you worse
Not sure what you're referring to. All I know is that when you instantly rewind, there won't be a cognitive learning process as your brain needs to learn (adapt to) a certain pattern with expectations and outcomes. Rewinding just brings you back to the moment right before dying, but not the moments leading up to it. Yet you'll still receive the dopamine reward in both cases, taking away the motivation to become better at the game. Rewinding also drastically reduces the possibility of failure, and failure is when your brain actually learns in order to adapt and overcome. Hence the absence of learning.

8 and 16 bit games especially have been designed with this learning process in mind. It's the literal structure of those video games. When using save states or rewinds, you bypass this learning process and don't experience the game in full how it was intentionally designed by the brightest minds of the gaming industry. What you're left with is a powerpoint slide of dopamine shots that only serve as escapism. The element of 'play' almost completely disappears. Imagine soccer but every time a player misses he can rewind and slightly adjust his foot to make sure he'll get the right angle this time. What is left of the game then? Nothing.

In short, rewinding makes you a worse gamer in the long term. This is simple cognitive neurology, any scientist would agree. Save states and rewinds therefore make for an objectively inferior experience as you only experience a small aspect of the game. It's only slightly different than being a passive observer by watching a longplay on Youtube. It just baffled me how some people don't see this. I said my peace.

>>9654265
>the brightest minds of the gaming industry
What determines brightness? They can't all be bright; there are games you don't even try for free. Are economic and technological compromises part of the intentional design? Did you interview these people?
>objectively inferior experience
That phrase by definition has no meaning.
>Imagine soccer but every time a player misses he can rewind and slightly adjust his foot to make sure he'll get the right angle this time. What is left of the game then?
Practice? People who want to "become better at the game" (that was important, right?) do a lot of that, e.g. speedrunners, competitive gamers, actual athletes, etc, somehow in spite of its ruinous demotivational properties.
Completing a pitched game like that would be a TAS, which has its own methods and challenges that many people enjoy enough to form communities around. Players with nonzero agency and self-control may also elect any of the possibilities between vanilla and TAS.
>This is simple cognitive neurology, any scientist would agree.
Could they also say what makes an operant conditioning regimen better than "a powerpoint slide of dopamine shots"? Because that's what the brightest minds of the gaming industry seem to be putting out lately and my mom still dresses me.
>peace

>>9636142
>how do you resist using rewind and save states?
I play on the original hardware.

>>9636146
i have it and i still refuse to use savestates because i know i won't have as fun if i use them.
it often leads to me shutting the game down in anger when losing, but by god the games are so much more fun when there are actual stakes.

>>9654567
Impressive how you manage to dodge every single point I made.

>peace
Yea that's the joke retard

>>9656342
OK so equate any use of rewind (which is short-term savestates in all but presentation) with TASing the entire run; insist that this is a 100% hollow experience despite the fact that 1. many people enjoy making TASs 2. some games are designed around save scumming as much as you want and 3. a small but increasing (thanks Twitch!) number of games are in fact much better to watch than play; insist that these tools destroy any meaning in or motivation to improve despite the fact that many of those most serious about improvement use them liberally for that very purpose; and predicate the sanctity of an imaginary "game in full how it was intentionally designed" by "the brightest minds of the gaming industry" (as determined by ???) on a misreading of behaviorism that predicts the opposite of what people actually do and could not possibly assign value to anything it describes because "objective" refers to hypothetical attributes independent of experience. Like misspelling piece would have been better off as the only sincere bit and if you're trolling I must congratulate you because this is some serious gourmet shit

Set rules for yourself.
I only use save states if I'm going to stop play and resume later, or if I want to capture some specific moment to revisit later (a fun boss for instance)
I only rewind if a death was total bullshit, i.e. I jump on a platform in Mega Man 3 and I glitch off and fall to my death

>>9636146
>>9636171
same. I see no appeal in using either of these things since they just interrupt the game unnecessarily from my point of view. it also defuses any sort of tension I might feel in the game more often than not. I pretty much only use save states occasionally to end sessions in emulated JRPGs

>>9656863
Only sane man on /vr/

>>9656916
Both you and him need to go back.

>>9656779
I'm not gonna bother replying to this. You're rambling and you seem mentally unwell, and I mean this unironically.

>>9657409
I know it's unironically not a video essay like you're used to but if you can't keep up you should unironically leave the conversation to others

>>9636142
I use them but pretend I didn't.

I only use them at the start of a level. yes, some of us have things to do during the day or night so we cant just sit in front of a computer playing games all the time. fuck a continue, if I can make it from the start of a level to the end Ill save it.

>>9658964
>yes, some of us have things to do during the day or night so we cant just sit in front of a computer playing games all the time
Classic save state fag cope. Pathetic.

>>9659079
classic fat loser crying about muh precious hour wasting hobby. lift some weights, take a shower, get a clue.

>>9659158
It's completely reasonable to prefer savescumming to the bullshit a lot of games would put you through even if you have all the time in the world. Excusing it with stories about how busy you are and how many weights you have to lift is weird and silly.

>>9659205
no its not, fatty. if you actually did these things youd understand. until then, hit the gym and find a better way to waste your time.

>>9659234
Chill out anon, I literally said savescumming is fine and you don't need to be defensive about it.

>>9659248
*Sometimes fine. Don't mean to advocate blowing through any difficulty. Use judgement.

>>9659158
I'm not fat nor a loser, I'm ripped and I bang chicks you can only dream of. You know why? Because not using save states has cemented my iron will to succeed.

Your turn, skinny nerd.

>>9659439
>t.

>>9659497
How did you know?

>>9640941
Because old games are often obtuse as fuck.

>>9641206
This anon is brain-damaged.

>>9651702
>Your brain won't learn the patterns like that, despite what some people claim here
Lol.

>>9660705
>>9660709
>>9660719
>so mad about the truth he has to triple post
Pathetic.

>>9660705
>>9660709
>>9660719
Damn, embarrassing.

>>9660823
>>9660875
I just reply as I read the thread. Jesus fucking christ, how fucking retarded this board is.

>>9661023
Put in some effort then, this isn't /v/.

>>9636142
Not only do I not resist it, I resist playing games that don't have it.

>>9662131
This will be the generation after zoomers. Woomers.

>>9636142
I don't use software emulators.

>>9640941
>>9643049
The poster boy for gen z games is a battle royale that literally 99% of players lose each round. Kids never gave a shit about participation trophies. That was the parents.

>>9641371
I wouldn't call it mental gymnastics, it's just that everyone has their justifications of why they use save states and how it improves their experience.

>>9664036
But they shouldn't as save states literally aren't part of the game. Hence the mental gymnastics.

In 10 years people will play Dark Souls with save states and pretend the bonfires are just annoying time sinks. It sounds ridiculous now but it's exactly the same thing.

>>9664089
I know, you have a good point, but either way there are people who cheat on those titles even now, for the sake of getting the experience they prefer.

Is it cheating? Yes.
Does it improve the experience for some? Yes.
What's wrong with that? Nothing.

>>9664089
The player has the final say on what "the game" is. Mods, speedrunning, nuzlockes, increasing emulation speed 30%, not using that gun because it's cheap, etc.
>>9664098
It is not "cheating" in any practical sense. Preferring a different game or version of a game does not exploit or defraud anybody.

>>9664036
>>9664098
The point is that they haven't beaten the game, they haven't gotten better at it, they didn't understand the mechanics and they didn't overcome anything.
That in of itself would be fine if those people kept to themselves in their safe bubble, but they often think anyone cares about their opinion, as if it's just as legitimate as someone who's actually played the game. They have lots of opinions and get really angry and defensive once someone points out they're irrelevant and embarrassing. The first step towards certain doom of *literally* any community in any sense of the word is when gatekeeping stops being enforced.

>>9664132
>they haven't beaten the game, they haven't gotten better at it, they didn't understand the mechanics and they didn't overcome anything
It's not binary. Someone who straight up installs another guy's savefile in e.g. DMC3 in order to immediately unlock all the weapons could go more or less normally from there and wouldn't necessarily be any worse at the game.

>>9664180
How about cut the middleman and watch a playthrough instead?

>>9664197
Because all the encounters are designed around you having all the moves and weapons, so the initial playthrough can be a bit awkward. It's not binary.
A more specific example: the secret area trials in Megaman Battle Network 3 (a card battler) depend more on your initial draws than anything else, so you usually end up repeating the fight until you get lucky. I beat em fair and square on the original hardware, but I would hardly hold it against someone who decided to scum for a good hand.

>>9664208
>skipping through required steps the game lays out is actually the right way to play
May I refer you back to >>9641371

>>9664212
May I refer you to >>9664109. It's a toy. Have you never installed a mod or a texture pack?

>>9664220
Certainly not before beating a game many, many times the correct way. You're desperately trying to liken that to a retard that cheats his way through, uses a walkthrough, rewinds or save states instead of ever playing through correctly. You have no argument other than 'lol who cares bro'. Your kind has been outed on the original pic, hence why you replied to it to begin with. Just drop it and keep half assing your way through games.

>>9664230
I've literally only talked about games I've played through "correctly" (no game is perfect). I have not advocated and won't defend anything like a feverish race to the credits. I don't know why anyone would do that.
Another example. Had a meet up with my brother and an old friend a few months ago. We decided to boot up Melee. Didn't know where my old memory card was, though, so I grabbed a savefile from gamefaqs and loaded it up so we'd have everybody. There's nothing wrong with Melee's unlock system, but that wasn't the time for it.

>>9664098
There's nothing wrong with it per se, but I consider it an inferior experience because the game hasn't been played to the fullest i.e. how the devs intended.

Playing Age of Empires II against an Easy computer while putting in money cheats and the laser bear is not wrong. But it is an inferior experience if this is the only way someone plays because they experience only a small part of the game and not the full thing. Is that really so hard to understand? In my opinion the full thing is better because it's the full thing. People who beat the full game consider party beating a game as not beating it at all. And they're right. Simple as.

>>9664313
Partly*

>>9664270
>There's nothing wrong with Melee's unlock system, but that wasn't the time for it.
Yes but you did unlock it before so it doesn't matter. Now loading the save file before unlocking anything on your own is fine too, but you skip a huge part of the game hence not the full experience hence inferior. It's simple logic, the mental gymnastics are unnecessary.

>>9664313
>>9664323
Devs make mistakes (and even if they didn't, they're constrained by resources and whatever platforms happen to be current). I agree with the AoE example; someone who only did that would almost certainly be depriving himself. On the other hand, a lot of Metroid Prime fans, especially those who played it "to the fullest", advise new players to use a walkthrough if the artifact hunt gives them trouble, because even though the rest of the game is good, that bit can suck. Yeah, they are missing out. On a bit that sucks. As someone who has 100% the game, I'm not going to hold skipping the sucky part against anybody.
Devs matter, but the final authority over what constitutes the optimal experience is the player. The Melee community sharply disagrees with Sakurai about how his game ought to be played, and they might smell funky but they seem to be getting more out of it than anyone else.

>>9641435
How is the bottom part "mental gymnastics" if those are true, factual statements?

>>9664270
Comparing save states/rewinding/cheats in a single player game to downloading a save of unlockable characters for a purely competitive multiplayer experience is a false equivalence made entirely in bad faith.

>>9665868
Downloading savefiles was brought up as a concrete example of how there's no final "correct way" to use a game, and that this doesn't imply the game ought to be any different (which is NOT to say that all experiences are interchangeable or equally preferable).

Why can't save state faggots say:
>Yes I know it's way easier like this and the flow of the game is not how the devs intended it, but I don't give a fuck
Instead of all the convoluted justifications in this thread?

>>9667221
Because when you only do it for gambling mini games then the flow is exactly one specific scenario that the devs had to account for.

>>9667234
No, because you'll get too many rewards eventually. They were gambling games for a reason. If they'd have outright given you the rewards it would be too easy for them.

Besides, who ONLY uses save states for gambling minigames?

Mental gymnastics, man...

By using original hardware on a classic television.

>>9667221
>>9667249
Because I'm having a good time on an imageboard. Are you willing to admit committing to a hypothetical "how the devs intended it" is as arbitrary and self-serving as any other approach?

>>9636142
I always use it if it's available in a collection or a emulator. I do admit to myself that I truly didn't beat the game. It's more like taking a tour of nostalgia in some of my favorite games I never couldn't beat as a kid.

>>9667249
>No, because you'll get too many rewards eventually
Well some devs do account for this by having forced lose scenarios where all options in the gambling game cause the player to lose. Other devs simply have a funny message if you win too much, which also means they accounted for such a scenario.
>mental gymnastics
Keep using that word and maybe eventually you'll "win" this non-argument.

I literally can't use any save states even if I wanted to. I filled up all 10 slots with instances of Fire Pro Wrestling move animations I want to rip.

>>9669370
>devs of 16 bit era games "accounted for" emulators and save states
>s-stop saying mental gymnastics!!
Roflmao

>>9640423
The tongue got me by surprise. Well done anon I keked

>>9669370
A few devs did anticipate cheats and hacks etc., but anyone using those obviously isn't chasing the vanilla experience

Retroachievements.org

>>9671262
It's really as simple as this.

Save state fags know deep inside they lack the skills of people who play vanilla. Instead of admitting this and moving on, they need to deflect any feelings of inferiority by inventing all kinds of arbitrary standards. When called out on their arbitrary standards they'll just tell you "it doesn't matter it's a video game i value my time i don't care bro". A typical mechanism of the human psyche. Weak ego's would rather die than admit weakness. Simple as.

I don't, I embrace them and savescum shamelessly.

My toon is the plot armored Hero because he secretly has the power to go back in time to retry shit.

>>9636142
Why resist good and helpful things that save your precious time that you'll never get back. Clock ticking, possibilities receding, etc

>>9672641
Have you S-Ranked DMC3 on DMD? Have you 1CCed Battle Garegga? Why not? Is it a personal failing on your part? Or because it doesn't matter, it's a video game, you value your time, and you don't care?

>>9673216
I'm not gonna bother no more

>>9636142
Don't resist it. You will naturally avoid it after you finally understand with practice it ruins some kinds of games.

>>9636142
Do people who say this shit have the same problem with PC games that let you access the console? Like, "how do you resist turning noclip on and just flying to the exit?"

>>9673243
You need difficulty to embody skill, so "vanilla" was referring to the brutal quarter munchers you've mastered, right? Not mario and zelda and JRPGs or whatever? Cause that would be kinda silly

>>9673249
This guy gets it

>>9673261
It's an attempt to assign objective merit to authenticity per se (and nothing else) in order to entitle oneself to external validation, as unwittingly explained in @9664132. Same reason discussions about graphical fidelity can be so weird.