/vr/ - Retro Games

>>9624132
try it for yourself
i think its neat but
the fiddling required for the pc cores are def not for all users

worth the price of admission for cps2 cps1 and neogeo alone honestly

I don't think people hate it, they just hate the snake oil salesmen.

>>9624132
Who cares what other people think. It's what you like. Do you like hardware, or is software emulation good enough for you? I'm a hardware guy. And I like the various Computer cores on MiSTer that are so accurate they can run ALL the actual programs for Apple II, Commodore, Atari, MSX, SharpX68000, and IBM PC Computers.
What I don't get is why people have to be insufferable bastards and call this thing a Scam. When I got my DE10 it was 130 dollars. I bought everything else when I wanted to. Which was the analog board that most people don't even need. And the memory board. Everything else I sourced from non MiSTer sources.

>>9624142
Who, Terrasic? Or the Free Open Source Project?

>>9624142
poorfags shitting up every mister thread and trying to derail it with misinfo = snake salesmen???

the mister community is based
the underage shitposters here are far from it

>>9624151
100%

>>9624132

Question regarding input lag on this thing.
How does a (beefy) PC compare when it comes to input lag?

I understand the Mister is really quick, comparable to real hardware but emulation on a good PC (not some ARM/PI4 thing) should give similar results right?

>>9624148
>>9624151
Anal-ogue and certain kinds of people that think hardware emulation is somehow inherently more accurate.

>>9624161
it is
original hardware doesnt run android\wangblows10

>>9624159
If software emulation is good enough for you. That's great. However it's not for me. And it never will be.
>>9624161
Anal-Log has nothing to do with MiSTer. They just both happen to be FPGA based. If you're going to shit on MiSTer for being an FPGA you're going to have to shit on all the Flash Carts too.

will they ever upgrade the project to a fpga that 1) isn't antique 2) isn't nearly impossible to find in stock and 3) isn't overpriced?

fpgas have developed a lot since mister was conceived...

>>9624161
*Hardware Simulation
Not Emulation. Software can't simulate Integrated Circuits.

>>9624171
The DE-10 is not over priced. In fact it's subsidized for Education. It's not impossible to find. You can buy it directly from Terasic when put out new stock usually monthly.
It's obvious that you have no idea how much these more developed FPGA's cost. Would it be great if MiSTer upgrades to something that could handle Nintendo 64, PS2 and Dreamcast? Sure, however that's not going to happen any time soon.
Besides even if they did. All you'd do is Bitch about the boards now costing nearly a thousand dollars. So shut the fuck up.

I already have a pc. No need to buy a $400 emulation box for reddit upvotes

>>9624159
Well configured software emulation will probably get within 1-2 frames of mister & real hardware, runahead can usually close the remaining gap but is glitchy if you push it too hard

>>9624180
Another uneducated poof throws his hat into the fire. Nobody in this community wants you in it. What about that don't you fucking understand? We don't need commoner rift raft making their voices heard.

>>9624183
>Nobody in this community wants you in it.

>>9624159
There are three primary contributors to input delay. The controller, the game engine, and the display. It gets more complicated when emulators are involved and how they are implemented. By nature, all software emulators using stock settings will produce a lagged game to begin with because the ROM and emulation software must go through other layers within the OS before the game gets to you. FPGA on the other hand is handling the instructions of the intended console and the data of the ROM itself, then sends the output as is with zero delay. Software emulation can overcome most of the delay at the expense of reduced accuracy.

>>9624180
shitposting outside of /b/ is a bannable offense anonkun

>make more accurate form of emulation
>doesn't support n64, dreamcast, ps2, anything that needs it really
what were they thinking?

an FPGA PS2 would actually be really good - PS2's hardware quirks mean it'll never be possible to emulate correctly in software, PCSX2 sucks for many other reasons, and there's no ODE for PS2 (OPL is not good enough)

>>9624198
mcbooft and burned dvds anonkun
i have a few ps2 laying about, all in working order
i dont expect a micropc to run ps2\n64\etc

however
jaguar is supposedly in the works
sega saturn and ps1 are practically done

it is so much better than the "just buy a pi lol" posters & has about 1/10000 the amount of shillposts

>>9624205
burning discs "works" but esr has compatibility issues, dual layer discs have problems with mechapwn, modchips are awkward to install, PS2 DVD drives are notoriously unreliable and burning discs is simply less convenient

>"just buy a pi lol"
Do people still do that? Pi was a passable option when it was cheap but ever since the chip shortage the value has been terrible. It was never that powerful to begin with and the value was the main reason to use one, N64 was about the limit of acceptable performance for the Pi 4 in my memory.

>>9624198
I really don't think they planned to get as far as they have. I'm thankful we even saw a PS1 core after the first attempt was abandoned. Saturn is still in the works but many games are playable (not very many are beatable yet).

>>9624214

N64 can work on a PI with the bad emulators (thats why people still claim N64 emulation is terrible?) and limited to no upscaling.

PIs are too expensive now to excuse them for anything,

>>9624218
>>9624214
i paid like $45 for my pi3
it overheats when playing demanding arcade titles
but for what its worth its kinda neat
for longer sessions a better rig is obv required

>>9624132
Make up your own mind, dumbass

It kicks the shit out of retroarch form a user's perspective. Much cleaner and easier to use.

Had the Mister for a full year now as part of my living room set up so here's my review

PROS:

>Very easy to use interface for couch gaming. It blows the fuck out of Steam Big Picture, Retroarch and Raspberry Pi in terms of emulator UI's.
>Input lag is beautifully low, even when using something like a bluetooth controller.
>I actually quite like the scaling, interpolation and shader options. CRT shaders of course only really work at integer resolutions like 720 and 1440 but the presets are great. Interpolation is just a set it and forget it option for smooth 1080p scaling, it looks very sharp.
>It can take advantage of freesync for consoles that run at slightly under or below 60hz.
>No bullshit mucking around, it just werks. I've played more games and systems on it in the past year than I ever have with PC emulators. This will be a very subjective point but for me it just feels "right" like no other emulator box has.
>Saturn core is on the way, PS1 core is absolutely terrific.
>Autists and slavs continue to add new features constantly.
>Open source community project so you aren't giving your money to faggots like Analogue.

CONS:

>DE-10 nanos can be very expensive and hard to find right now. This is a significant entry barrier for anyone who isn't an enthusiast or willing to pay for big bucks for a pre-built Mister.
>No N64 or Dreamcast is pretty annoying. I feel greedy for saying that but it just would have been nice. Hopefully the Mister project can move to more powerful FPGA within the next 5 or so years.
>PS1 core can't do internal upscaling or PGXP like a PC emulator. I never use said features with Duckstation but I know a lot of people do, so its worth mentioning.
>No current frontend that enables box art view or something similar. This is a nitpick but it would be nice.
>Currently only capable of 1920x1440 but not 2560x1440 which is a much more compatible version of 1440p.

And finally, the biggest caveat of all:

>It's not worth the money if you're someone who just emulates at their desk with a PC monitor.

As someone who's been through all the options for having a nice little living room emulation box, the Mister is a dream come true. I love it, it's answered all my prayers for an all-in-one retro system and it's worth every penny compared to something like a Raspberry Pi, Nvidia Shield, Wii or the mini consoles. But if you're someone who doesn't care about gaming away from your PC, and you aren't severely autistic about input lag, just stick to powerful software emulators like Duckstation, BSNES, Mednafen etc.

>>9624493
>>Currently only capable of 1920x1440 but not 2560x1440 which is a much more compatible version of 1440p.
what about 2160p?

>>9624214

> Get Phat PS2 with Expansion Bay
> Buy SATA Adapter and 500GB HDD
> Profit

I still need to get around mine along N64 + Everdrive to be fully set with my retro-setups sans Xbox (360).

>>9624512
No 4K unfortunately

>>9624132
the people not trying to take your money

>>9624823
you think the posters here somehow profit off mister sales?
anon i....

>>9624839
no never. nobody would ever go on social media to promote a product. Especially one of the largest alternative platforms on the internet.

/x/

>>9624840
yeah its all a conspiracy anon
all those corporate de-10 nano fatcats

thinking they can tell us what to think

>>9624132
>people who love it only love it cause they wasted money on it and have to justify it
>people who hate it only hate it cause they're poor and its expensive
One thing that sucks is you cant really try one to see for yourself if it's interesting to you. I have one, and I mostly like it, but I'm just a retard on the internet, you cant listen to me about the quality of a product.

i miss the autistic anon who would call it the "faggot pedophile gay activator" every time it was mentioned, i hope that guy is doing okay

>>9624882
that's good i'm using it now

>>9624881
werks on my machine

>>9624132
>Who do I believe?
Believe in me, who don't love or hate it. In fact, I know nothing about the Mister. I conclude it must be a device to help you become a perfect gentlemen. So you'd better grab your best suit and shoes. I'll pick you at 5.

>>9624132
I don't like being told I'm an idiot because i choose real hardware, I already know what mister can do. I like the whole tinkering and mods thing with real hardware. I like the limitations, ghosts n goblins is worse on c64 but I like it.
Half the people who say its just as good as the real thing play on lcd's anyway so I don't take their word too seriously.

>>9624493
Nintendo had some stuff in the leak, it sounded like it could be used to make an fpga similar to the ique player or at a replacement gpu for the n64 with better fillrate. If it could do n64 then maybe model 2 or the neo 64 but dreamcast and newer I don't think you lose much from pc emulation as far as graphics.

Great device but their discord is cancer. Luckily the core contributors that actually get shit done don't hang out there.

It's fine, but like with all things, there are a small minority of fags who don't shut the fuck up about it. They derail entire threads constantly spouting "it's the the only way to play the game, fuck emulation and fuck actual hardware!!!" I don't think they understand there's a lot of ways to skin a cat (aka play a game)

>>9624132
I don't hate it, I think it's really interesting and has a really cool dev scene. I'm just never planning to buy one because I have no use for it, a regular ass PC does what I need. Maybe I'd consider it if I had a good CRT for it.

>>9624171
Yeah, I hope you have a few thousand dollars.

>>9625034
worth it if it means 6th gen consoles can be correctly emulated

>>9625038
Recreating a powerPC or wintel processor is a tall order for an FPGA, let's not even start with the mess that is the emotion engine. I don't think it could happen even with more powerful ones. Also the only reason why these ones are affordable is because they're subsidized by intel for educational purposes.

>>9625047
>, let's not even start with the mess that is the emotion engine.
FPGA is the only thing that COULD sort that mess out. You're not going to have a conclusive solution to the FPU problem oterwise.

But yeah, looks like it's many years away from practicality.

>>9625058
With only one chip? Very unlikely, and that mess needs to be a mess to function, there's no "sorting it out."

>>9624221
Lol! How did you manage to overheat a Pi? Overclock? Using stock, I can't do it with a Pi4, much less a Pi3.

>>9624493
>No N64 or Dreamcast is pretty annoying. I feel greedy for saying that but it just would have been nice. Hopefully the Mister project can move to more powerful FPGA within the next 5 or so years.

You need to think more ambitiously. Nobody would be paying $5k to $10k for FPGA to emulate consoles and conform with that. If MiSTer ever moved forward, it would be for arcade hardware instead which is not even realistically happening in 20 years.

>>9624132
FGPA Everdrive and system>Aya Neo pro>>AnbernicRG552>Anberic 351p>Analouge Pocket>Ayn Loki>>Odroid>Retroid Pocket 3>>Aya Neo regular>Odin>Anberic 353p>>Retro Pocket 2/2+>Miyoo>>Raspberry Pi>>Coolboy rs-97+>Evercade>>Minisforum>Powkiddy v90>Pirate multicart>Powkiddy a66>Coolboy rs-97>>MiSTER

MiSTer is snake oil

https://chrismcovell.com/CPUTest/index.html

>>9624180
>$400
old news sweaty, it's at $550 and climbing.

>>9624179
>$225 for a heap of junk that only plays ps1 is a lot of money for people outside the youtube retrogaming bubble, you can't deny that.
It's funny how everybody here shat on anal-log for making a portable fpga with decent screen, case, buttons, cart reader and battery for $200 and are now defending a $600 hipster audiophile rock that doesn't even come assembled

>>9625378
Im sorry that you are poor.

>>9625330
Technical accuracy is not the main reason to use Mister. I like its real time accuracy. PC hardware is just straight up garbage in comparison. I like the fact that the audio and video is perfectly synchronized with no buffering or lag or stutter.

>>9625406
ok, so it's not accurate

>>9625330
Sir, your reference website is outdated.

>>9625330

>>9625060
Isn't the goal of MiSTer and the FPGA crowd as a whole to decap every chip and recreate the original verilog that went into designing the chip in the first place? And then the FPGA behaves like a clone. Could you use multiple FPGAs together? It'd be stupid because the cost would far exceed just buying a PS2 but it'd also be a futureproof investment that could be put into action once the better FPGAs started coming down in price. Right now the DE-10 is the sweet spot of power and affordability but that's not going to stay that way forever.

>>9625395
This, so much this! I hope it reaches $1k+ so we can own the poorfag chuds even more. Let's hope the project remains alive doerino.

>>9625418
This is because as awesome as FPGA can be, the actual MiSTer cores are mostly based on software emulators. The PS1 core is just Duckstation converted to HDL. They're telling the truth about what MiSTer can be but they're lying about what's actually being produced for it. Or rather it's a lie of omission because they're allowing people to think it's super mega accurate when behind the scenes it's not going all that far beyond the work that was already done in emulation.

>>9625442
>The PS1 core is just Duckstation converted to HDL.
What is your evidence?

>>9625440
Considering the trend of retro game prices, $1000 would arguably still be a steal compared to the real shit. At this point the MiSTer user is the poorfag compared to the guy rocking a real Turbografx-16 or Jaguar.

>>9625378
$200 + $50 standard shipping

mister is $225 + $15-$30 2 day shipping

>>9625452
>Turbografx-16
>not PC Engine LT
Get the fuck out here, you penniless bum!

>>9625449
There's a YouTube video discussing how the PSX core implements the GPU, the dev straight up says it's Duckstation code but also that's just the GPU

>>9625458
This is not what he says. This is:
>"A big thanks goes out to all the emulator developers, researching this for so many years now. The exact internal GPU calculation of the PlayStation is likely still not known, but algorithms that produce the same output are found. For the MiSTer core the polygon drawing algorithm used in DuckStation is used as a base."
Going from that to "PS1 core is just Duckstation converted to HDL" is a massive stretch.

>>9625463
Yeah like I said it's only the GPU implementation, anon said a half truth

>>9625468
And he is talking about others lying by omission.

>>9625468
To be fair, a half truth like that makes it a whole truth when the messaging in the MiSTer community is "muh accuracy." They can either walk the walk and be transistor accurate or they can just admit it's no better than software emulation. But they want to have it both ways.

>>9625478
Who gives a shit about evangelising misterfags or misleading emufags? We have established what the truth of the situation is now. Let's discuss whether that has any merits

>>9625495
The merits of MiSTer is that because it's a hardware implementation it's way easier to interface with original hardware (not that MiSTer uses real carts but it theoretically could) and that it makes playing on a CRT as easy as using an original console, which means lightguns "just work."

>>9625442
How many times are people going to say this without posting the proof or source of their bullshit? The only documented use of software emulation to build an FPGA core is to compare the functions. It's not from and to, it's a parallel development. The software emulator was build FOR developing the FGPA. I'll let you figure out which core I am referring to.

>>9625536
The developer himself says the PS1's GPU is basically a black box. What else do you need?

>>9625558
Why are you asking for a transistor accurate recreation of a black box?

>>9625564
I'm not. I'm asking the MiSTer community to stop lying about what's actually being delivered.

>>9625558
Decap it and produce HDL for what you see. No point using an FPGA if you don't go the distance and actually reproduce the hardware.

>>9625585
For the record, I don't think accuracy as far as the end user is concerned matters anymore. We're mostly past the point where games don't function properly outside of some extreme edge cases that the typical person won't even notice. MiSTer is a perfectly fine option and FPGA has it's unique value compared to software emulators. But let's be real about what the cores are. They are not exact clones of the original hardware despite that being pushed as the primary reason people should care about the thing. I would love it if the cores were all perfect clones and theoretically they could be (to a point, since the FPGA will have some differences in actual execution of the circuit but there's more than one way to skin a cat). But few people are willing to talk about the realities and like you've just done, they get argumentative when it's brought up.

>>9625437
It's not always an option to just use a microscope and fuck shit up. Also additional problems appear with multi-chip systems like the PS2 and the Dreamcast and with complex processors like wintel and PPC. I'm not a dev, but I've read from PCSX2 blogs that the main problem is synchronizing the timing between the PS2's different chips.

>>9625617
Cache coherency (or the lack of it) is an issue that is expensive to emulate in software but which produces observable accuracy problems on PS2-tier hardware, but what other timing issues arise?
I tend to find that later consoles are less sensitive to timing issues overall. For example, Atari 2600 requires sub-scanline timing accuracy, but only 2 SNES games are known to and I've never heard of any framebuffer-based console needing it.

>>9624132
I hate the clear plastic case.

>>9625632
Transistor density is my guess, but I'm merely talking out of my ass.

>>9625617
Hardware implementations have huge advantages over software when it comes to timing problems. The real limitation is that affordable consumer grade FPGAs can't handle a PS2. I suppose you could rig up multiple FPGAs working in unison but that'd be stupid.

>>9625665
Like what, adding additional FPGAs? I don't think so. I'm glad you like your MISTer, but don't mislead people.

>>9625682
What are you talking about? I just said it would be stupid.

>>9625478
>it's no better than software emulation
An inaccurate MiSter core is better than a cycle accurate software emulator because software emulation has to run on shitty PC hardware, its the PC hardware which is the problem. Its video and audio output is shit.

>>9625749
If that's the case than all those shit SOAC clones like the Firecore would be better than emulators, but they aren't. Obviously MiSTer cores aren't that shitty but FPGA isn't a magic bullet. At it's core it's just a custom ASIC that you can change. If the verilog is inaccurate then so will the result.

>>9625078
i actually tried to play games on it instead of uploading photos to reddit

the temp icon shows up about 10 minutes into dodonpachi

>>9626151
How did you set the thing up, my friend? Were you using the official (or equal-quality) power supply? I stored mine into a case without a fan, only with holes for the air to flow, and didn't get any warnings. Played everything up to the PS1. The only time I had a warning showing up to me was when I away from home and used a chink power supply with an inline switch.

>>9624132
It's a waste of money. All it does is emulate 8 bit and 16 bit consoles. You can easily do that with a PC or laptop.

>>9626332
except it does vintage computers, consoles, and arcade hardware with less headaches.

>>9624151
Actually poorfags are more than likely to get a MiSTer. The anti-MiSTer crowd will either buy an Analog clone console, HDMI converters for their original consoles, a CRT TV for their light gun games, console minis, play on a Steam Deck/PS Vita, or they will emulate on their beefy PC gaming machines. They clearly don't want what you're selling MiSTer.

>>9626339
My PC does that easily with no headaches.

>>9626346
>a CRT TV for their light gun games
These are literally free.

>>9626434
Space is not though. Being well off enough to have room for hardware is often more of an issue than the cost of the hardware.

>>9624132
>Who do I believe?

Believe in the heart of the cards

>>9624159
The main important factor for emulation is a VRR display (to not have V-Sync lag) and a low lag controller. With a VRR display and a low lag controller, you will be equal or lower input lag than original hardware (high refresh-rate VRR draws a frame slightly faster than a CRT).

Run-ahead is not necessary and should only really be used on games that are inherently laggy (4-5+ frames of lag), although in that case, some might see it as cheating. Run-ahead slightly increases input lag variance, for a pretty negligible decrease in input lag if set at 1.

>>9624132
The fuck is this? An emulator box? No one can ever explain wtf it is to me.

>>9626549
um its a lot like Shang Tsung in that it can morph into other fighters and become them 100%, only instead of fighters it can morph into video game consoles, computers, and arcade machines. its basically a pyramid skeem

I believe that some people love it and that some people hate it, but personally I wouldn't pay more than $100 for one. It just doesn't offer that much value. Call me when it can run game systems that haven't had "solved" emulators for the past 20 years.

>>9626549
Emulation equivalent to pic related

>>9626813
ironic shitposting is still shitposting anon

>>9627073
He's right in that it is for the "101% ACCURATE" retards but wrong in thinking its a similar mechanism to audiophile shit. Its a hobbyist device not a premium product.

FPGA is cool simple as. If you dont know or care what an FPGA is im not going to explain it to you

>>9626356
A PC can do a lot of things easily.
It's isn't a tiny, convenient box that can easily hook up to a HD monitor or a CRT television, and your emulators don't interface with original peripherals like lightguns or Pocketstations, or connect to original hardware like the Game Boy or Super Game Boy.
and it's absolutely fine. MiSTer isn't a replacement for a PC, it's different device for a different audience. An audience that you aren't a part of.

>>9627237
You own pocketstations and lightguns but you don't own a playstation?

>>9627237
>it's different device for a different audience. An audience that you aren't a part of
Adult diapers are also different devices for a different kind of audience I'm not a part off, but that doesn't mean that calling someone who wears them to fullfil his scat and adult baby fetishes a mentally ill freak is wrong.

>>9627281
Several, but none that play Japanese games without having to burn discs, or output to HD at the same time as an analog signal, and have the capability of acting as several other systems many of which I don't own.

>>9627642
>and have the capability of acting as several other systems many of which I don't own.
Do you also happen to own all the accessories that emulators don't support for those?

>>9627654
Only for the NES. The console's fucked, but I still have all my peripherals.

what bums me out is
its basically impossible to discuss updates\games\cores on this board

trolls and poorfags that cant afford a 140$ all in one pcb computerboard shitpost or make slide threads until we're dead


updates 2023:
cps3 nearly done
jaguar nearly done
saturn nearly done
ps1 basically done

antonio v s-video adapter works for basically all cores (with a few exceptions) and provides native analog video without fuckery

>>9627682
finally... 2023 will be the year we can finally play ps1 games without a ps1...

>>9627705
kek
i was using tonyhax
its a ridiculous workaround but
for some reason it never gets old
my inner child is still thoroughly impressed

>>9627682
What is wrong with PS1 at this point? It played everything I threw at it without a hitch.
Am I setting myself up for disappointment if I am hoping for PGS this year?

>>9627746
igs pgm?
is that what you mean?
i hope to fuck that shit actually gets ported
the oem hardware is fragile finnicky bullshit and pisses me off so much
i bought like 6 of those boards and less than 20% were actually running properly & will likely STILL be dead soon

you cant maintain the boards yourself the traces are fucking microscopic and get rusted\corroded +tards online install the wrong batteries as "MODS lol" and they blow up leaking acid everywhere on the board in storage

>tested workin
>whoops sorry no sound bad ram rotted board
>enjoy your international shipping\refund process lol

>>9627682
I think the problem, and ive said this before, is there just isnt that much to discuss.

"Saturn core update launched"
"Oh cool can I play (x) yet?"
"(Yes/no)"

"New arcade core launched"
"It just werks"

FPGA isnt understood by most people who arent computer/electric engineers so that topic is always going to be more interesting to people than what is being played on the system itself, and even if you do understand FPGA people will talk about whether its "worth it" since this thing is expensive despite being open source and a passion project. I personally think its awesome and have enough disposable income that buying it wasnt a huge deal but I know thats not the case for most people.

Or maybe we need to start the threads with this girl so people will discuss her which is better than what we have currently.

>>9627746
Someone correct me if im wrong but im pretty sure nothing is, at this point theyre just adding more enhancements since they have a ton of the board to work with.

>>9624493
You can use 2560x1440p. Do a update and I believe it is option 14 in video mode.

My B7 OLED doesn’t support 1440p for a cheap tv from 2019 does.

>>9627936
people to start mister threads on /vr/ every now and then and there's nothing to discuss every time so they just die.

since there's nothing to talk about they should stay dead.

>>9627936
240p girl
pretty sure thats bill gates

>>9627969
don't use her deadname

>>9627973
>her

>>9627746
Mister PS1 is not perfect, e.g. polygons are 'wobbly' and textures can distort under certain angles. I think they are working an improvements to stabelize this in future updates.

Still all games I tested ran without crashes, so thats a plus.

>>9628081
>. polygons are 'wobbly' and textures can distort under certain angles
Aren't you just talking about what original hardware did?

>>9628083
What? I don't think original hardware did this, right?

>>9628091
you have to be 18 to post here

>>9628091
Playstation games are known for texture warping and imprecise polygons.

>>9628095
Works on my PC

>>9626536
People care too much about input/audio lag. Don't get me wrong, you need to care, but *just enough*, not too much. Once it reaches a point of low-enough (the placebo-tier), you'll need the help of some equipment to measure a phenomenon that's beyond your human perception. There's a post I've seen pasted a couple of times around /vr/ about "subjective input lag measure" that tackles the issue well. In short terms, you don't need any fancy screen or computer to get good results. At least, on RetroArch and with software rendering cores; that's what the post was talking about.

>>9628129
How much is enough? 1-2 frames is probably the sweet spot IMO.

>>9624215
>I really don't think they planned to get as far as they have. I'm thankful we even saw a PS1 core after the first attempt was abandoned. Saturn is still in the works but many games are playable (not very many are beatable yet).

Exactly this, it started off as an offshoot of the MiST project, which was a FPGA emulation of ONLY the Atari ST and Amiga. When it first started I don't think they expected it to even do beyond the SNES. It's nothing short of a miracle that they were able to squeeze out the PS1 and Saturn on it, especially without needing a second RAM module.

And there isn't any other option for FPGA either. Other FPGAs that are on PAR with the Cyclone V that the DE-10 Nano uses hit the quadruple digits mark... and those are dev boards that don't even have the additional hardware the DE-10 Nano has like the memory, storage, or most importantly the ARM processor. People don't understand how heavy the subsidizing is, or how insane a FPGA that can do more would cost. The Cyclone V has been around for over a decade now too and is still massive overkill for it's intended educational use, so it's very unlikely a better FPGA that is affordable will happen anytime soon.

Basically, it's a miracle that we even have PS1 and Saturn on an FPGA that doesn't cost as much as a used car, we are not likely to get N64 or better anytime within the next decade or two.

>>9628095
Only noticeable in emulation

>>9628350
sad! maybe in that decade N64 emulation in software will become a solved issue instead.

>>9628129
People focus on too much autistic shit that doesn't even matter, where something simple like a VRR display can remove 2-3 frames of input lag, or you could be using some shitty 8bitdo BT controller with like 50ms of lag. If you are at original hardware, that should be good enough, but some games were just inherently laggy (having 5-6+ frames even on original hardware).

>>9628375
>but some games were just inherently laggy (having 5-6+ frames even on original hardware).
These are good targets for runahead.

>>9627919
>is that what you mean?
Yeah, I don't know how I got mixed up there. I considered buying bootleg copies of the Cave games since a collection of those PCBs costs more than a new car but can't justify even buying bootlegs when I have to stress over keeping more fragile old hardware in working order.

>>9628095
still would desu

>>9627073
I think it's easier for you to stop being a crybaby. Will you argue or cry to the mods? You know life doesn't work like you want, neither does here, where ban evading is piss easy.

>>9628314
Only you can answer that. Really. Using your words, if you think 1-2 frames are fine, then it's settled for you. If some anon disagrees, he will have to find his own comfort zone. Ironically, some people don't even measure whatever input lag they agree or disagree with, so it's a little pointless and tiresome.

>>9628375
Yes. As long as you are able to play and feel immersed, then it's all fine. Input lag only becomes an issue when it really affects you, not by its mere existence.

>>9628360
No texture warping and z-fighting is incredibly noticeable on real hardware on any TV, only the polygon jitter is not so obvious in 240p but hardly invisible.

The best thing about fpga dev is having more arcade and system schematics getting documented. Jotego has fixed a ton of outstanding bugs that have been in mame for years including stuff where the official spec sheets were wrong. I really wish it was just slightly more powerful so we could finally get N64 going.

I love my MiSTer so much.

>>9628571
Everybody wins :)

>>9628350
I'd argue sofware emulation is a better approach for N64 anyway. For older systems without a framebuffer, you're at a latency disadvantage doing things in software, but the N64 has one, so it doesn't matter.

>>9628590
You still have to go through OS APIs which add some latency. It also doesn't change audio latency, which is typically greater (although less important).

>>9628590
emulation of those older systems are just as low lag as original hardware.

>>9628590
The existence or lack of frame buffer does not effect the additional latency of the emulation. Because in both cases you still have to emulate the scan-out. Its not safe to sample the frame-buffer before scan-out because, you would miss a late frame update.

>>9628605
>You still have to go through OS APIs
I may be mistaken but I'm pretty sure that modern Retroarch gets around this with exclusive full-screen and Vulkan. I remember a while ago the only way to get closer to the metal was using a minimal OS like Lakka, but these days there's no difference between using it and Windows for latency.

You're right about audio lag, but for N64 where real hardware latency on a CRT is upwards of 80ms already, audio latency shouldn't matter, it doesn't take much resources to match.

>>9625437
>Could you use multiple FPGAs together?

Depends. I have no idea how fast any of the communication ports on the MiSTer are, and how they would compare to the busses of any of the systems you wanted to emulate on them. If their speed is sufficient you might be able to get away with emulating one chip on one FPGA and a different one on another. You would not be able to split a single chip across multiple FPGAs however as just about any form of communication between the two FPGAs would be far far slower than the communication within the chip itself.

Also, I believe the main issue with N64 emulation is not that the FPGA doesn't have the space for it, but that the entire DE-10 Nano just plain can't communicate fast enough. The N64 had some absurd specs for it's time.

>Right now the DE-10 is the sweet spot of power and affordability but that's not going to stay that way forever.

No, but it is going to stay that way for a long time. The Cyclone V is a 10 year old FPGA but it's still far more than anyone needs for educational use. Intel has zero reason to create and subsidize a more powerful FPGA for a very long time.

>>9628619
I see. I thought having to use a framebuffer was related to needing to use Vsync, which adds lag, but I'm probably retarded. I think I heard someone saying something among the lines of "old consoles deliver frames directly while PCs have framebuffers" or something like that and it probably stuck.

>>9628370
In order for N64 emulation to evolve, they need to fully reconstruct the code. At the moment, all I have seen are marginal performance improvements and at that rate, I'll be in the old folk home when N64 can emulate without excessive hacks.

>>9628350
I'm glad the whales have made sure the MiSTer developers stay afloat financially to steadily bring the rest of us free cores. This year we can expect CPS3 and potentially PolyGame Master in the same year, something that nobody could have imagined during the days when CPS1 and CPS2 cores were having trouble in their development cycles. Sega 32x is another console I am thankful we got going which only happened because of progress on the Saturn core. Nobody would have worked on it otherwise.

>>9628638
Whether the emulated console scans out directly or the emulated console renders to a framebuffer and scans it out later, the host system must wait for the emulated system to scan out and capture the output to its own framebuffer before it can itself scan that out.

>>9628081
>Mister PS1 is not perfect, e.g. polygons are 'wobbly' and textures can distort under certain angles.

>>9628081
tfw you're old enough to remember when PGXP dropped that people like this start showing up

>>9628634
If anything, they will come up with a less powerful FPGA because of the manchildren hiking up the prices of their educational board

>>9628786
I personally think they're internally thinking of making a more expensive hobby model seeing as fpga has started being more common in far more projects.

>>9628797
That would be nice and as a richfag I would buy one to dick around with day one but this is just wishful thinking.

>>9630621
Honestly yeah. But I think there will be some form of refresh in the next 5 years with potentially more io.

Not my problem.

>>9630717
Poorfag detected.

>>9624132
For me, I started to enjoy it more on a flat hdtv with crt filters. I used to have a CRT and use the mister there, but for some reason it was most complicated since I had to move the CRT, play and then hide everything again in the closet.

Nowadays, I have a bigger house where a CRT can fit but I got used to play on the HDTV.

BTW, I am not a zoomer, I grew up using a CRT until the xbox 360.

>>9624132
after years of research/debating about getting one here's the final conclusion:

1. It's only worth it if you have a CRT
2. The cores it does well are already just as good with software emulation assuming you have a decent pc
3. Unless you're a speedrunner you will not notice the differences in accuracy.

I think it would be a fun toy to have especially as an upgrade to a raspberry pi but I really can't justify it since I don't have a CRT nor would I ever want to get one.

>>9631083
>1. It's only worth it if you have a CRT
wrong an oled tv/monitor with VRR/freesync is more enjoyable IMO and can sometimes have less lag than a crt

>>9631109
can't retroarch use vrr?

>>9631083
>years of research
I bought one on a whim.

>>9631083
Modern TVs are already matching CRTs on input lag.

>>9631083
Luckily for me I don't want a CRT. So a MiSTer is useless to me.

>>9631134
CRT is for extremely clear motion from strobing, low input lag, VRR support, and low-res content looks better. It's basically all-in-one better. The only viable alternative would be something like 4k OLED with BFI (would need high brightness to counter BFI) and CRT shaders

>>9630717
>Rooms that are filled to the brim with all sorts of hoarder trash
>"Ackchually the MiSTer FagPenisGayAnal helps you save like sooo much space?? Like imagine real consoles and physical games, the whole lot of space they would take? I can't even"

>>9631315
It's not as magical like that. I'm a 3rd-worlder, and there were quite a difference of quality between CRT models here. I think the only thing granted is low input lag. The rest will depend on what you have and what connector you're using. At least, with me, the most I was happy with a CRT was using a 21-inches LG flatscreen through component cables. Dither was visible, but so what? Everything else was great.

>>9628360
Nope

https://youtu.be/AXgTkSIXYBI

>>9631083
>after years of research/debating about getting one here's the final conclusion:
well from someone who has actually used mister, I aint going back to pc emulation

Where I can get the cheapest full closure for Mister? Analog board + hub. Don't have 3D printer (yet)

>>9630717
My Genesis Mini is better.

>>9633258
i got the multisystem, im really satisfied with it

>>9633303
at what?

>>9633391
At being cool & having blast processing!

>>9633391
1. At being a Genesis.
2. At being mini.

>>9631315
Input lag is the only factor that affects gameplay directly, the rest is subjective. Some people prefer raw pixels. I don't, but a good CRT filter does the trick for me.

>>9624132

It's hardware simulation. Not the original hardware.

I collect original Arcade PCBs and I own the mister. The mister is still not arcade perfect and has issues.

>>9624172
Well it can but it's ungodly slow.

>>9633495
What? You mean you don't have a 50GHz 100-Core 512bit CPU to run MetalNES at 60FPS?

>>9630717
How much loli hentai can you fit on this thing?
Asking for a friend

>>9633593
whatever you can find on the Japanese computers it currently supports. Not only that, some of the Japanese consoles have hentai too.

>>9633903
So not much until the PC 98 core improves.

>>9633918
||Saturn has uncensored PlayBoy kareoke discs||