/vr/ - Retro Games

Mary can't equip swordians.
But the true answer is because the game wasn't fully realized. Probably had to conform to some deadline, there are many functional items that aren't even accessible without cheats, and even a fully playable character got dummied out.

>>9592030
Really? I had no idea.
Does the ps2 remake fix any of this?

I found the game incredibly lacking, and the final boss felt out of nowhere.

>>9592042
I love the spritework and music, but everything else is kinda mediocre

>>9592034
Rather than fix, I'd say the PS2 just reinvented the combat part.
You can't actually remove, or even swap swordians in the PS2 version, but the disc system allows more customization of your swordian.
The other characters work as expected.

Philia feels completely arbitrary after the halfway point.

>>9592048
Maybe I should've played that one

>>9592065
You should have. The remake is an infinitely better game. The PS1 version should only be played afterwards if you're interested in what changes were made to the story and characters.

>>9592065
Thankfully it's now been fully (well, 99.9%) translated so you don't even have to blindly navigate it like I did when young.

>>9592085
The retconning in the remake was just annoying. I stopped around Tiberius. I did enjoy the combat system, but not enough to watch them butcher the storytelling and characters.

>>9592054
She's a lot more useful in the remake.

>>9592106
It never bothered me because that was the characterization of those characters in everything made after the original game (putting aside that the original was very poorly translated so they weren't exactly their real personality in english anyway). The only big characterization retcon was trying to make Leon more sympathetic, because otherwise Judas doesn't really make sense.

>>9592115
My experience is kind of a blur now, but I remember getting particularly annoyed at the personality adjustments to Ilene (or Irene?) and Bruiser Khang. It's amazing how much I've forgotten already haha - I don't remember Leon's personality change at all.

Another complaint which is minor.. In the original game, there was a lot of hidden stuff, little puzzles you might not even be aware were puzzles, like pushing the boxes in the warehouses. Seems like they just got rid of all that. I could be wrong, though.

>>9592115
There's a big wall of text relating to all the character changes for each character on ToD PS2's ゲームカタログ entry, so it's not just a translation thing and it's not just a Leon thing.
>because otherwise Judas doesn't really make sense.
Judas is all about regret and atonement, he makes perfect sense either way IMO. Leon doesn't need to be chummy with the group for him to regret his actions.

>>9592125
>>9592126
Well like I said, the remake didn't create these changes in personality, the manga and Gummy shorts did years and years before the remake came out.

>>9592125
I wasn't even aware you could have recruited Bruiser as a playable character until I saw him in the ending.

>>9592126
>There's a big wall of text relating to all the character changes for each character on ToD PS2's ゲームカタログ entry
Even on that own page it says it's to bring shit more in line with their characterization in ToD2.
And to be perfectly frank, I prefer Stahn having just been turned into Domon Kasshu.

>>9592126
Nta but that comes from the fact that Japan cares way, WAY more about the original ToD than the west does, so they got super butthurt over Ilene being changed. You can say "it's not just her"...but for the majority of JP players, it was because of her. Seriously, they waifufag for original Ilene so hard.

>>9592015
To offer more variety MAYBE?! DID YOU THINK ABOUT THAT HUH?! NO YOU DIDN'T ALL YOU DO IS POST INANE STUPID SHIT ON MY BOARD FUCK OFF
>>>/tv/

>not running Chelsea, Mary, Khang

>>9592042
I love just about everything about the game but I do feel that the story kinda drops the ball when Kronos pops up, the pacing was godlike up until that point.

>>9592752
You can only recruit up to 2 of the non-swordian wilders in the original game.
Also Mary and Khang are dumbasses that never take the initiative, and will only attack enemies if they one inch away from their faces.

>inb4 was talking about the remake
Don't use ps1 art then.

>>9592940
Weird, I remember using three.. or maybe that was just Garr before his swordian. You have to use them with a TP ring, and Chelsea is better off spamming arrows through the menu.

is dc or original the way to go ?

>>9593046
Now that the DC version has fan translation, there is zero reason to play the ps1 version, unless you are some hipster or contrarian faggot

>>9592125
Bruiser was especially fucked in the ass in the remake. In the original he was the best character in the game if for anything then for his ultimate attack that basically froze the screen and dealt a shit ton of damage with no possibility of it being defended against.

>>9592085
i feel the opposite about this. play the original and if you want more then pick up Directors Cut.

>>9593397
Even the japs generally don't bitch about Kongman's changes for gameplay reasons, they just don't like that he's no longer such an arrogant asshole.

>>9593475
There's a much higher chance of someone liking the game if they play the remake. They really did not have the battle system hammered out until Eternia.

>>9593540
>Eternia
Speaking of:

Which version to play first: PS1 or PSP?

>>9593540
alright mr. tales of

>>9593596
>first
They are the same game, there's no reason to play both.

>>9593596
PSP, it has a few extra CG cutscenes and 60 FPS in battles in comparison to the PS1's 30 FPS. The only thing you lose is some Playstation Pocket-exclusive minigames, which I believe were Japanese only for the PS1 version anyways.

Did anyone ever make a title screen fix for Tales of Destiny II on PS1 to revert it back to its original name of Tales of Eternia?

>>9592572
Whoa, this guy is really f'in cool.

>>9593665
Ty

>>9593596
There's effectively no difference, but I think the PSP version has an undub with subbed skits, I MIGHT be wrong on that though. Plays better on PSP too.
That being said, there's nothing wrong with the dub. Yeah it's kinda low quality but it has a wierd earnestness to it, like you can tell these are all rookie VAs that genuinely are trying their best but just haven't quite gotten their chops yet, which funnily enough fits the mood of the game itself. Which fun fact, the guy who voiced Reid in the dub went on to be the voice of Sly Cooper, and he's said that he's glad he was Reid because voicing the MC in a full RPG gave him a lot of voiceacting experience he wouldn't have otherwise had.

>>9593712
As far as I know the skit subs aren't done yet, just a proof of concept was shown.

>>9593596
psp blurred the crap out of 2d backgrounds and has the *LOOKING GOOD* filter applied over it but otherwise same experience

>>9595407
There's no blur or filter if you're emulating (I'm not going to bother getting my PSP out to look to see if there is on console), but the background are cropped to fit the screen of course.

>>9595826
>forced 16:9 that just cuts off the top and bottom of the screen
GOD I HATE THIS

>>9595939
It's unfortunate, but it's worth it. Battles feel so much better on the PSP at 60 FPS.

>>9596242
>>9595939
>>9595826
>>9595407
>>9593715
>>9593712
I appreciate ya'll laying this out for me. Usually I have to trawl old forum posts to find these kinds of comparisons.

>>9593046
Depends, do you like shitty bleak backgrounds that clash with the sprites, faggotry flat nu-art and obnoxious voice acting?

>>9597073
I like all those things.

>>9597073
>faggotry flat nu-art
what does this even mean

>>9596979
she's so cute bros

>>9597073
Left is definitively better. Leaps and bounds.

>>9597280
How can you not see this?

>>9595939
Why wouldn't they offer a pillarbox option? Just silly.

>>9597280
>faggotry flat nu-art

>here's your phone demake bro

>>9598189
it's okay to prefer the original without being a hysterical faggot about it. really. it's fine

>>9598228
>being a passionless wet sock

>>9593518
Maybe so, but I really liked this random bald guy who was entirely optional fucking obliterated the game in the original.

>>9598189
>exact same design except the colors are actually correct and not washed out
What an absolute travesty, they totally ruined him.

>>9598804
>flat trash art
>armor looks like a sports bra
>no muscle definition
>looks like he has downs
>hand looks like a total less
>totally the same!!11

Oh great the shitposter is back. Unless you are super autistic about graphics then DC version is so much better.

>>9598472
passion doesn't count for much if it's about something as frivolous as not liking an artstyle

>>9598970
>floor is an ugly gradient with an even uglier thing in the background sticking out like a sore thumb
>enemy has less animation than the proper game
>flashy lights and colors le epick magic pattern lasers
>we want the DmC audience
Disgusting

>>9599012
what do you like about the original, let's start there

>>9598970
Even if you're super autistic about graphics it's better, the remake is gorgeous.

>>9599012
as if the original is any better
>status bar takes 1/3 of the screen
>most uninspired and generic planet+stars background
>enemy is static
>party member AI is so retarded you have to baby sit them to point where the game becomes turn-based jrpg
>the final boss is also so easy and boring even toddler could beat it, with the controller being unplugged

>>9599012
>we want the DmC audience
So every game in the series from Eternia onward? There's a reason the Combo Command accessory was added into the game and why you're graded based on how good at comboing you are. And from Symphonia onwards, that actually translates to tangible rewards at NG+.

>>9599108
the final battle is really where the meat of the game is

>>9598189
You're unironically being more defensive about this than the Japs who grew up on the original game and even with their many issues with the changes to characterization, it still has a rating of a good game there.
https://w.atwiki.jp/gcmatome/pages/3932.html

>>9599126
Nta but it's a fair comparison because both webms are of the exact same fight.

>>9597073
>and obnoxious voice acting
You shut your filthy whore mouth.

>>9597073
For an Tales RPG released in 2006 those 3D models for objects actually looked pretty damn good. It's hard to not realize without perspective but it took a long time for Tales Studio to make 3D models that didn't look like shit (hence Symphonia having the wierd dwarf-like models for all its characters) and sprites were always their forte, hence why the sprite animation in ToDR is so good. When you're actually playing it and not looking at screenshots, it looks fine, partially because your CRT helps filter out some of the imperfections in the models.

>>9598150
It looks like how Inomata's characters have looked for the last 20 years, she's always drawn wierdly anorexic people since like the year 2000. ToDR got off lightly because she still had to use her older art as a basis, ToD2 shows what happens when she's completely untethered. The characters in that game actually look like her art, and it's fucking horrifying. And I say that as someone that considers Destiny 2 one of my favorites since it was the first game I ever imported and played in Japanese.

>>9599156
>It's hard to not realize without perspective
It's hard to not realize with perspective, I meant

>>9599156
Inomata's art is great.

>>9599210
When they don't look like fucking aliens, sure. Like I said, ToDR forced her to be subdued compared to normal because the characters had to look like how they did in the original game's opening cutscene.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfWRr6KhCI8
>inb4 that's the remake
Literally the same opening, they just didn't have to compress it so much anymore.

>>9599156
1997 and 2007 Inomata looks like two different artists.

>>9600597
80s Inomata was basically Amano but with bigger eyes.

>>9600597
That's basically every japanese character designer if you givem them enough time. Look at Hirai, he wasn't known for the Kira face back in the day. Or Shirow pre- and post-oily horsecocks. Or Urushihara. Or Obari before and after he was allowed to go full Obari. Or Geor....ok bad example, George Manabe's art has literally not changed in the slightest for 30 years because he knows only how to draw MILFs.

>>9598189
>phone
No way, that was the common look for most 2000s RPGs that had moe, edge, and magical world on it.

Summon Moon, Disgaea, and Bunny Must Die are great examples.

>>9598970
Mmmmmm numbers going up
Nice

>>9603357
I wish more games in the series displayed total damage on the enemy in the combo and not the damage of each individual hit, makes it far easier to see how much you're doing.

>>9600629
I haven't even seen anything by Urushihara in the last 20+ years. Unless I have and his style changed that much, which would suck because he's my absolute fav

>>9603539
His girls are nowhere near as chipmunk-y as they used to be

>>9603539
He's still drawing pepperonis at least.
https://exhentai.org/s/040e4dc4ba/2261617-1

>>9603543
I don't see it. That one Langrisser games designs were phoned in AF though

>>9592109
Philia is a bulldozer in the remake, what the fuck are you talking about.
>>9592030
>But the true answer is because the game wasn't fully realized
Nope that was Phantasia
>>9592034
PS2 version is a damn near 10/10 game
>>9592015
A cat is fine too.

>>9605342
>Philia is a bulldozer in the remake, what the fuck are you talking about.
Did you misread what I said?

>>9592940
>You can only recruit up to 2 of the non-swordian wilders in the original game.
I'm playing the game now, 20 hours in, running Garr, Chelsea and Khang so I just kinda spoiled myself that Garr will be able to use one later now. But it's not like I wasn't expecting him to get Igtenos or whatever it's called in the future.

>>9605342
>A cat is fine too.
What did he mean by that

>>9607095
also I hate how they gave me Chelsea level 2, why do games do that

>>9597073
Every time someone mentions ‘soul’ on this board I roll my eyes hard. This is the one game where I feel like the original had a hard to define quality that made it much more attractive than the remake’s bland art style. The remake’s combat is miles ahead though. I never know what version to play any more, so I tend to alternate.

>>9592042
>I found the game incredibly lacking, and the final boss felt out of nowhere.
So typical JRPG then

What games in the Tales series are worth playing? I remember people talking good things about Symphonia back in the day, but I didn't own a gamecube, is Legendia good?

>>9607320
I'm 60 hours into Legendia and just at the final boss rush mode before the ending. I honestly think the game is the worst of the bunch so far. Filled with little problems that all add up into being an excruciating experience that just isn't fun.

It's a shame because it has a decent enough story, fun characters and a really good soundtrack ("The birds chirp, I sing" is incredible) but it just doesn't make up for all the other downfalls, if the game ended around 30 hours in it wouldn't be that bad.

I'd say play it if you want to see how it plays but don't start with it, although personally I wouldn't recommend it.

>>9607320
>What games in the Tales series are worth playing
You won't ever reach a consensus on this one.
Legendia is kind of a black sheep in the series, not the worst one, but it was made by a different team, so it's like a Phantasy Star III to the Tales series.

It's also worth mentioning that all the retro Tales titles were made by 2 different teams, namely team Phantasia (character design is done by Kousuke Fujishima) and team Destiny (character design is done by Mutsumi Inomata).
Each team developed somewhat of a different style through time. I usually tend to favor the team Phantasia titles (Phantasia, Synphonia, Abyss, Vesperia), although even between those titles there's one that I particularly don't like.

>>9607512
There were no teams until D2->Symphonia, and Phantasia's team mostly left the company after Phantasia so it very much can't be placed in either basket.

>>9607114
It's in the image.

>>9607258
It's a shame they have literally never surpassed the combat in Destiny R, though they've tried several times. The closest they got was Graces but that has the problem of the cast being insufferable retards.

>>9607539
Nta but Legendia wasn't even made by Tales Studio at all, it was made by I think the Soul Calibur people. Which you would think would equal better combat but boy you'd be wrong.

>>9607320
The only game in the series in the retro era that is just outright bad isn't on a retro device, Tales of the Tempest on the DS. Which is so bad it got downgraded from a flagship game to a side game. I actually struggle to think of a Tales game in the retro era that makes me go "no, definitely don't play that" if you like JRPGs. I guess maybe the SNES version of Phantasia if for no other reason than because the PSX version has completely replaced it.

>>9607320
Just about all of them(the main games) are worth playing, but they all have their quirks and issues. Symphonias sequel(dawn of the new world) is commonly hated but its not that bad. Innocence's DS version is impressive for DS but the "R" remake is so much better and it finally got fan translation too(and you can emulate it with vita3k these days too). Zesteria is awful for most part. Legendia is one of those games that you either hate or love.

The abyss is considered to be the best one, unless you hate flawed main characters or world building. But I'd suggest playing symphonia first(and then go by release order or play whatever interests you most) as going back to more primitive battle systems can be tedious to some people.

>struggled 4 hours yesterday
>finally cave in and decided to check a walkthrough
>turns out the retards who did the localization don't know the alphabet
yes I'm mad

>>9609995
Is this the puzzle that wasn't translated correctly and gives you the wrong clues?

>>9610532
yeah basically they give you numbers you have to match with the alphabet but two numbers are off, they give you 5 and 19, when it should be 6 and 20

>>9609995
Is this for the original or remake?

>>9609342
In fairness since Symphonia was pre-free run, it plays so differently from any other game in the series that going back to Eternia or Destiny 2 isn't that hard.

>>9611148
the original psx release

Just finished the game, about what I was expecting, it's so fucking easy though, even for jrpg standars

>>9611189
Oh ok, I was going to say, the remake was fan translated but I don't remember that issue when playing.