/vr/ - Retro Games

>>9584752
>1/24 of the puzzle has been solved
Heretic is a much better game. You get more than 4 weapons and it has less where the fuck do I go parts.

>>9584807
Some of those Hexen weapons are really cool though.

>>9584752
I personally prefer Heretic.

I've never played Hexen but I really hate the weapons in Heretic because you need them to be powered up to be useful at all later in the game.

Hexen.
Most who choose heretic are ignorant of the pleasures of playing as the warrior with his mighty fist and magic axe. Imagine having to shoot a serpent from far away!

>one eighth of the
I don't understand the issue. You hit a swtich, you find what changed. Its normally the thing you expected. There are maybe two obscure ones where you have to hunt.
Key goes in door of same name. Simple.

Overall, I agree, though. I prefer less puzzly maps where I can enjoy the combat.

>>9584752
Heretic for traditional map design.
Hexen had a cool idea, but I can never find where it is because this switch opened a door that could be anywhere

>>9585110
>There are maybe two obscure ones where you have to hunt.
My guess is one of them is early on in the game, so we dont get to appreciate the rest of the game. I wouldnt mind going to the game though. Any tips on the vague switches? Are they always in the same level or could it be anywhere in the attached hub?

>>9585132
>My guess is one of them is early on in the game, so we dont get to appreciate the rest of the game.
It's a little bit like that. It starts happening after the first level and people are a bit taken aback the first time. First timers won't even know that 'one fourth of the puzzle' indicates that anything has changed at all.
But you get used to it. Knowing that it means something, you start taking note od suspicious areas while you play and when you get one of those notifications you think 'aha!' and you check back on areas that seemed likely.
Those messages always refer to a change on the main hub of the level you're on. Like the stairs rising so you can pull the chain to open the doors to get to the other half of the Guardian of Ice etc.

The real issue is that a lot of the switches have no logic or anything to do with thier effect. Right in the first introductory level you open up a cave by ringing the bell in the tower. Why? No idea. There is no reasonable connection. But it gets you used to the idea that doing thing = something changed, and its probably a place you were blocked before.

Heretic became more intense as it went on, difficulty 5 is nuts. Hexen overstayed its welcome at some point

>>9584752
Hexen for Hexen 64 co-op mode.

>>9584752
Heretic and it's not even close, Hexen is fucking trash.

>>9585210
This if you’ve got the bros. Otherwise Heretic. Raven coming across hubs in the Doom engine for the first time was cool to see but I felt Strife better utilized the concept. This also isn’t to say that Hexen sucks.

>>9585110
That giant cube area you can only progress to a certain point then you HAVE to leave the map. It doesn't tell you this. And nobody would expect you to have to leave the map to progress. It's not really intuitive to leave a map. Usually most people playing would assume that forward progress would be made in the map you're in. You just have to spend so long stuck there wondering what the fuck is going on you either leave or look up a guide.

And I'm sure you're going to respond to tell me that you are 4000 IQ and figured it out all by yourself, right?

>>9584752
Tough call.

Hexen has more memorable level design, cooler weapons, better core gameplay, and looks better. On the other hand, Heretic has better enemies, better music, and is more arcadey like Doom, etc. (for what that's worth).

Really tough call. Hexen is probably a slightly better game.

>>9584752
I like heretic more, but hexen has caused so many brainlets and zoomies to rage in frustration that it has a special place in my heart.

>>9584807
/thread
Hexen puzzles are very boring.

>>9584752
i love hexen (even 2), but there's just not enough weapons for each class and the "puzzles" are more tedious than engaging. heretic is basically doom so it's more innately fun and replayable.

>>9585404
>And I'm sure you're going to respond to tell me that you are 4000 IQ and figured it out all by yourself, right?
Not him but I beat Hexen entirely without any guides. Eventually got used to the fact that it had a very different style of level design to it. The game was fun so I didn't mind the way it approached level design.

>>9584752
IMO they're too different to make a comparison and I like them for different reasons.

>>9585897
>but there's just not enough weapons for each class
If each class had too many weapons (lets pretend 8) then the characters might run the risk of feeling too similar to one another. Also some weapons would likely have ended up redundant or useless. The way it is makes it so that you'll get good use out of all the weapons and even want to use them since they all play a very particular role for each class. At most I say add one weapon for each class that pretty much acts as their own version of the BFG. The other 4 weapons being lesser than. Also play the Wrath of Cronos mod if you haven't it is pretty good and even adds a couple more classes to play as.

>>9585897
>but there's just not enough weapons for each class and the "puzzles" are more tedious than engaging
Enemy roster could use help as well. So many ettins, stalkers can’t spawn without water, and centaurs are some of the least fun enemies to fight in the official Doom engine games. Raven always did okay with bossfights, though.

>>9584752
Heretic was designed to appeal to DOOM players. It's literally just a reskinned DOOM, with the minor addition of an inventory. From the design of the combat, to the pacing, to the level design, to the episodic compartmentalizing of itself, it's DOOM. If you like playing DOOM, you'll like Heretic.

Hexen is NOT designed to be played like DOOM, which is why the DOOM autists get so spergy about it. It has different pacing, levels are not individual instances with gradual progression and sectioned off into episodes; instead it all connects together with lots of backtracking and puzzle solving. The inventory is also different based on the character you choose, giving each character their own unique inventory in some ways, while also having each character have a different combat style on their own, making the game very varied in its approach. Naturally, if you intend on playing a cheap shitty DOOM clone, this game will disappoint you, as it does many-a-autist, and only those who actually enjoy differently designed games will find it interesting.

>backtracking and puzzles
There’s about three or four that qualify as substantial “puzzles”. The overwhelming majority of level progression will be hopping between the levels, scanning them for keys and switches, and bearing in mind which levels have which keys that often lead to a switch.

>>9584752
Heretic starts off with very good and fun level design. The cracks start to show once they pack the levels full of enemies and you realize your weapons are way underpowered (compared to Doom) and combat becomes a slog. Also, they reuse a really small pool of textures throughout the game, so few levels really stand out thematically.
Hexen wins me over with its dark atmosphere and intricate level design. I love the feeling of uncovering secrets, solving puzzles, and exploring the labyrinths. The combat is more of an obstacle to exploration, and if you play as the fighter your weapons can take out every enemy in 2-3 hits.

>>9585404
>That giant cube area you can only progress to a certain point then you HAVE to leave the map. It doesn't tell you this. And nobody would expect you to have to leave the map to progress. It's not really intuitive to leave a map. Usually most people playing would assume that forward progress would be made in the map you're in. You just have to spend so long stuck there wondering what the fuck is going on you either leave or look up a guide.
The manual or marketing almost certainly mentioned the fact that you can travel between levels. You just failed to grasp an extremely basic part of the game's design. Do you play Metroid games and give up when you cant just keep going forward to progress?

HEXEN II IS THE BEST GAME EVERY MADE AND I WILL FIGHT YOU IF YOU SAY OTHERWISE PLUS YOU'RE A STUPID NIGGER IF YOU THINK THAT ALL CAPS

>>9588551
Beautiful game.

>>9584752

Both. Also replaced DOS extender in hexen - was working with 4 mb ram.

>>9588535
Weapons don't seem that underpowered to me. Some are definitely not as good admittedly and compared to Doom the weapon sandbox simply isn't as powerful that is true. However some like the ethereal crossbow are absolutely incredible and strong. You've got to be kidding if you think otherwise. Also that tomb of power or whatever it is called is useful and turns all your weapons into absolute death bringing machines. Far more so then any single Doom gun besides the BFG. Shits fun as hell to use every time you grab the book.

What is great about Heretic is despite it feeling very much like a Doom-like clone game it still did several things to change up the gameplay. It really does make you feel like a wizard even though you're a wizard that uses ammo I guess. I love the game. I feel like playing it again now.

>>9588551
>>9588628
But which is the best character?