/vr/ - Retro Games

>>9553212
Sega was already doomed, with or without Shenmue. Its existence accelerated the process by a few months at worst.

>>9553212
It was an extrordinarily massive mistake on SEGA and Suzuki's part. However, it did revolutionize gaming and help launch the career of Toshihiro Nagoshi, whose Yakuza franchise would eventually make serious money for SEGA, so there is that. Suzuki is a moron, but I honestly really love this game.

I don't blame them for -trying-.

But it's obvious that Dreamcast and Shenmue both share a lot of the same fundamental failings. The Dreamcast was essentially built as a final struggle against Sony's PS1 (and rumored PS2) by making something that was much more advanced, and more expensive. Audiences just didn't click with it, and Sega were left with an expensive failure that quickly got superseded. The same is basically true with Shenmue. Shenmue could've worked if it was a legit system-seller like GTA or Halo, but it wasn't.

The realization that Sega could not compete with media giants like sony, microsoft and nintendo on hardware space, and it was the correct call.

They needed a killer app to sell the console. Didn't work but it's always a gamble.

>>9553232
Audiences definitely clicked with it, the DC was a massive success at first. The truth is that the PS2 was going to sweep the floor with everyone, not even Nintendo could dream to compete with the massive install base of the PS1 and the massive hype surrounding the PS2. And even though both the GC and the Xbox had excellent games and superior hardware, neither stood a chance either way. Even being weaker hardware-wise wasn't even that big of a deal for the DC as consoles in Japan have extraordinarily long life spans, both the Neo Geo AES and the SNES received games well into the late 90s. In fact, Sega could've absolutely kept supporting the DC for its lifespan (even the PS1 received games that the DC never did like THPS3), but they were so used to being a top contender that it would've been too demoralizing.

Shenmue was a vanity project, and it rightfully floundered.

>>9553232
If Sega had made GTA III instead of Shenmue, it would have saved the Dreamcast.

>>9553212
It was kino and better than anything on the Shiturn

>a 70 million dollar game is now basically a cult classic that your average gamer who plays modern vidya has never even heard of
>the only people who play it now are Yakuza fans who were memed into thinking that it's a 3D beat em up
How does this even happen?

>>9553490
Dreamcast wouldn't handle something like GTA 3 but I like to imagine a game of this scope but with DC graphics. Like I do with Shenmue on Saturn

>>9553212
I think what killed the Dreamcast was Utopia's bootloader. Once the moose got loose, it was over. I owned a Dreamcast, only knew a few people that had one, but all of us pirated games like there's no tomorrow. I mean I'd always do it with every single console I owned, starting with the PSX, but back when PlayStation was still new there were still fuckloads of people I knew who didn't have a modchip and the whole process scared them. Same goes with the PS2. Dreamcast though, fucking everyone did it, no exception. As long as you had a CD burner, you were good to go. I think that's what killed the DC. Shitty marketing too probably.

>>9553586
Dreamcast attach rates were solid, so piracy couldn't have been an issue.

>>9553586
But what does it have to do with modding though? You still had to buy the console to mod it you know. Shit, do you know how many people hack Nintendo consoles and play all of the games for free?

>>9553596
>>9553602
Loved the console, didn't buy any games though. SEGA made some money off me initially and that was it, many such cases. They were most definitely losing money. Legit most of us Europoors did it too. When it comes to the US, again probably shitty marketing..

>>9553567
It's like the least flashy and exciting game in all of existence. It's so low stakes and it doesn't beat into your head what your objective is or how to play it. It's basically retard repellent.

If Shenmue wanted to matter to modern audiences it would have opened with Ryo fighting a mob of Lang Di's henchmen and then a boss fight against Lang Di himself while loud music plays.

>>9553602
The Dreamcast wasn't discontinued because they didn't sell enough hardware. Hardware sales were strong.

>>9553586
shit argument ps1 had more piracy than the dreamcast ever did
third world console sales are irrelevant worldwide

>>9553613
Insane that they made such an expensive game where nothing happens.

>>9553618
>third world console sales are irrelevant worldwide
Not that anon but I wanted to mention this and say that in my shithole they sold pre-modded PS1's and DC's lmao. Like there was no other choice, you wouldn't find a brand new console even if you tried

>>9553586

>>9553615
Cause they didn't last two the years and everyone gotem repaired or a new for free? Not like the ogxbox didn't know something like that too.

>>9553615
>>9553637

>>9553576
>>9553490
Rockstar was going to port GTA3 to Dreamcast but then console died and PS2 became the priority.

>>9553212
>>becomes a forgotten series
kek

>>9553613
It's low stakes to everyone but Ryo. Normal life continues for everyone in town, because nothing tragic happened to them. To them, Iwao's murder was just a news story. The best you'll get from them is a statement of sympathy. Only the Hazuki household was hit by this asteroid, and Ryo is the only one compelled/motivated to do something about it. It's a believable depiction, and one of the things that makes this game special.

>>9553212
Well, most of this money went to R&D for the engine and tools. This won't be a problem if the Dreamcast lived longer.

>>9553212
Paved the way for Yakuza, which is now a massive franchise and somewhat lives on through that series

>>9553928
> massive franchise
>doesn't have the time of day
>the story is separated from activities and side stories
Cringe

>>9553928
I don't see why people always compare these series. What am I missing?

>>9553212
It was a gamble that didn't pay off, BUT people put too much emphasis on it making back the budget alone.
A lot of money was spent on tech as well IIRC, and that (as well as experience of making these types of games) was carried over into future projects too.
So yes it looks particularly bad on paper (and in reality was definitely not a success) but there's more to it. Not to mention the idea wasn't to make the money back in one or two games, but to launch a franchise, so they intended to take a loss on the early games in the hope it would be a 'Final Fantasy' series for them. Shame it didn't pan out, Shenmue 1 and 2 were really cool. 3 got some things right, but mostly didn't live up to the previous games.
I think the Dreamcast would have been finished regardless though.

>>9553613
>It's like the least flashy and exciting game in all of existence. It's so low stakes and it doesn't beat into your head what your objective is or how to play it. It's basically retard repellent.

This might be the best summary of Shenmue I've ever heard. Most people I know who hate it have awful attention spans and only tried it because they wanted it to be Yakoozer. (FWIW Yakuza is fine for what it is, but complaining that Shenmue is 'Yakuza but bad' is a brainlet take).

>>9554007
I think because some developers worked on both. Otherwise it's mostly Yakuza fans who never played Shenmue but assume they're the same because 'Set in real-life depiction of Japan and has mini-games'

>>9554135
Even that description I'm not sure about.

>>9554135
>Otherwise it's mostly Yakuza fans who never played Shenmue but assume they're the same because 'Set in real-life depiction of Japan and has mini-games'

I could've sworn Shenmue took place in China.

>>9554334
>I could've sworn Shenmue took place in China.
thats shenmue 2

>>9554161
It's not hard to see the comparisons, especially once encounters become much more frequent in Shenmue 2. They are both ostensibly beat em ups with a wide variety of activities to perform in the overworld. Shenmue does not have nearly as much fighting and has problem solving and conversations in its place. Yakuza is much more bound by genre convention as it released later, a more straightforward mashup of beat em up and RPG rather than the vague structure of Shenmue. They have totally different priorities and atmosphere, but there are things in common.

>>9553576
I love you

>>9553576
driver 2 was going to be ported on the dreamcast. but then you have super runabout and headhunter, but after playing the shit out of msr, maybe the dreamcast could make a neat driver 1 game with msr graphics

>>9553212
And they're doing this shit again with their mega game project with Jet Set Radio

>>9554357
I don't agree with that, there's not really any 'encounters' in Shenmue II in the way there are random encounters in Yakuza.
I agree that they have a blend of beat em up and RPG, but the way they handle them is so wildly different it's a big stretch to link them IMO.
Even things like Shenmue not having 'level up' besides actually practicing moves and their animations changing to reflect mastery, vs Yakuza having straight 'Put XP into this skill to unlock things'.

>>9554656

>>9554007
I think people haven't played Shenmue and they just see a Sega game where you walk around a city modeled on a real place.
Yakuza is a modern River City Ransom game if anything.

>>9553212
Shenmue was a passion project so it didn't matter if it failed or not, SEGA was already fucked.

>>9554357
>They are both ostensibly beat em ups with a wide variety of activities to perform in the overworld.
There's barely any of either in Shenmue, but that's all Yakuza is.

>>9553212
SEGA's demise was written in stone before even the Saturn was released, the Megadrive was a fluke and as much as i love them for the nostalgia, they are much better off as a software company than they ever were in the hardware days.

It's one of the greatest games ever made. It was worth it.

>>9555506
All their home consoles were good. Saturn is debatable if you're looking at their western release.

>>9555108
This sounds so awful. Bringing back a beloved arcade driving game and platformer to make them some kind of weird MMO game that'll no doubt be riddled with ads and micro-transactions.
They're so niche, why would they choose those franchises? Why not do a Sonic game to bastardise?

>>9555108

It's almost like abusing Sonic wasn't enough.

>>9555626
>Why not do a Sonic game to bastardise?
sonic literally just got an open world game

>>9553212
>Was Shenmue a mistake?
Sega of Japan just made mistake after mistake.
Should've listened to the American division.

>>9554007
Nagoshi worked on it and many other Sega games attributed to Yu Suzuki exclusively. For example he straight up directed Daytona USA but everyone considers it a Yu Suzuki game

Shenmue led to Yakuza, which led to Nagoshi becoming a Bogdanovian.

>>9553212
I tried to play this but the control scheme was so shitty I had to stop. I wanted to like this.

>>9553496
haha, do you avoid playing the sega saturn in shenmue?

>>9556373
I meant a big MMO, micro transaction filled game.

>>9556373
Open world doesn't always mean a bad game. Frontiers looks cool as fuck actually and I need to play it. I mean Mario Odyssey is basically open world and it's a phenomenal game

>>9558208
>t. Tom Kalinske

>>9559637
EA sports titles and twin stick 4 player/online shooter would have saved the Dreamcast, not half and hour arcade ports and quirky Japanese slice of life simulators. deal with it.

if it wasnt for the chinese theming, and appealed to the larger american market with some medieval or gritty wartime theme, maybe youd have a new sega console sitting in your room right now.

>>9555108
every single fucking time, without exception, they try to make another crazy taxi, its fucking terrible. not a single game after the first one was even remotely close to the immaculate excellence of the fist title. they haven't learned and its going to happen again. kms

>>9560352
I'm just having a laff, but in reality I agree with you. The arcade ports were nice, but more games of substance and ones that were made for the home market would have helped.

>>9553212
Shenmue's cool.

>>9560402
>Shenmue's cool
https://youtu.be/GM-e46xdcUo

When the console is being sold at a loss in anticipation of profiting from software, yes it's a mistake to create shenmue. They should have made like 10 sonic games instead

>>9560825
>he doesn't play Shenmue every year over Christmas
>he doesn't immerse himself in a small town in mid-'80s Japan while drinking tea by the fireplace
>he doesn't ignore the shit sequels and pretends the game is an unfinished OVA
>he doesn't check up on Nozomi every day and call her at the end of the night
>he doesn't feed the cat

What's it like to be soulless?

>>9561339
>>he doesn't ignore the shit sequels and pretends the game is an unfinished OVA
Shenmue 2 is great though and they were both developed in conjunction with each other as evident by the Saturn prototype. It's basically one long adventure game

>>9561343
>Shenmue 2 is great

-QTE fuck fest
-ugly brown chink location
-edgy side characters
-less unique dialogues and interactions with npcs
-NO Nozomi


Just no.

>>9561364
>-QTE fuck fest
Sounds like someone got filtered by Kowloon.

Shenmue was never good luckily completely dead now, but good it spawned the superior version, the yakuza games. Thx sega tards

>>9554007
Is this a joke? You can still feel the Shenmue spirit in every Yakuza game after playing 5 minutes.

>>9553212
>Sega budgets $70 million towards the game

48 Millions for Project Berkley + Shenmue + Shenmue 2.

>>9553219
>launched the career of Nagoshi
He was the chief designer for Virtua Racing and headed the development of Daytona USA you doofus.

>>9554126
That's only true of Shenmue I of course (i.e. the good game). Shenmue II is Hollywood bullshit and Shenmue III is non-canon. No game and nobody, not even Shenmue and Suzuki, will ever capture the feel of the first game.

>>9553437
>In fact, Sega could've absolutely kept supporting the DC for its lifespan (even the PS1 received games that the DC never did like THPS3), but they were so used to being a top contender that it would've been too demoralizing.

No they couldn't. After the Sega Saturn, Sega wasn't in a good financial position. They invested so much money in the Saturn and barely made their money back. Sega Saturn was a big failure outside of Asia. Unlike Nintendo, Sega sells their systems at a loss. Sega makes money on game sales.

Sega honestly didn't have the cash reserves to do a launch of another console like they did for Genesis and Saturn. So Dreamcast was financed by Sega going into debt.

Sega literally used a "Credit Card" to pay for the Dreamcast. Sega ran out of money (they hit their credit card limit) around 2001. That's why they discontinued the Dreamcast. Japanese banks would not give Sega anymore loans or extend Sega's credit. They were already DEEP in the red and owed a lot of debt.

The Dreamcast did not sell like they had hoped. Sega gambled by paying for the Dreamcast with loans and credit. And it failed after 2 years.

Sega was going to declare bankruptcy if it wasn't for the Sega Miracle saving them.

>>9553212
>becomes a forgotten series
Maybe I'm a more than average gamer but I remember Shenmue coming out and it being a pretty big deal. It was on a ton of must play and best of year end lists. And it's always had a good following because around the time Dreamcast emulation got good people were introduced to it.
>Kills the Dreamcast in the process, reducing Sega to a third party developer
The DC died because of the genesis's massive success. Nothing could come close to it no matter how hard they tried. That and Sony having so much more $ to subsidize their PS2 production. If Sega had just one more year with the DC I genuinely think it would have been a hit. But they would have quit the console market anyway because it was just too expensive to keep up with Sony.

>>9562082
Give some specific examples of what you mean, because to me the games feel worlds apart.
The way you get into fights, the tone, the actual fighting mechanics and RPG elements are wildly different.