/vr/ - Retro Games

>esl
I'm not even going to consider buying your product unless you can tell me what it does without typos.

>>9516475
He's obviously not ESL, just made one single typo and a black dudes dick is deep in your ass for some reason. Relax.

what the fuck was so hard about it? I had to drill fucking holes into steel with cheap chinese stepbits and holesaws to make mine and it wasnt half as hard as youre making yours out to be.

>>9516451
Your PC-Engine looks retarded as fuck, brah.

>>9516451
cool blog reddit. liked and upvoted.

>>9516496
the keyword would probably be "Fiddly". every single step of the process was annoying. the screws were too small, the motherboard was hard to handle, it was really difficult to put into the shell, everything that plugged in anywhere felt stiff and i was never not worried i was going to break something. i had to open it up and restart it twice when i thought i was finally done, because this or that wasnt fully plugged in or aligned. ive been building PC's since 2002 so i thought it would be cake, but it works good at least.

>>9516507
how much was the case?

>>9516510
$60

wait so this thing is like $250 on top of the price of a de10 and memory module? fuck that

>>9516517
it came with a built in memory module, usb hub, av ports.

>>9516451
>>9516490
>he needs to buy dogshit that baseddrinking YouTube shills peddled him to "finally enjoy" retro games
Literally kill yourself

>>9516451
>playing retrogames is way more fun and easier on this than emulating ever was
Oh boy, here we go.

>>9516490
>Immediate mention of niggercock
Go to bed, amerimutt, if you don't Saint Nicholas will not visit you.

>>9516558
>>9516570
retards

>>9516604
Cocksucker

>>9516451
I had a similar feeling regarding RetroPie back when that was the meme setup. Sure there's no building involved but I spent so much time tweaking settings and not playing games. It was shit. Now I just use real hardware.
>playing retrogames is way more fun and easier on this than emulating ever was
It's emulation, it's just a different type of emulation.

>>9516615
i know i went down a rabbithole. but the input lags gone. gone i say!

>>9516507
>i thought assembling a tiny device was going to be like plugging in a new video card
Well there's yer problem

>>9516609
How are those grapes, Mr Fox?

>>9516894
Technically my hardware grapes are just as sour as software grapes, but they taste sweet because I paid so much for them.

>>9516894
>emulation user
>"s-sour grapes!"
fucking kek

>Still doesn't play carts

>>9517318
cuz hardly anyone wants that. even on original hardware, everyone prefers flash carts

>>9517330
>hardly anyone wants that
The wife and I
Cope harder kiddo

>>9517558
k
enjoy your nothing

>playing retrogames is way more fun and easier on this than emulating ever was
I've got some bad news, anon. You may want to sit down for this.

Why does /vr/ hate the mister? It's a great little preservationist device, you'd think a board about playing old games would be happy there's future proof potential options for retaining the accurate experience for future generations. No clue why it gets shit on so much here

>>9517597
>why is my emulation cuckbox disliked?

>>9517597
mix between poorfag sour grapes, le epic pc masterrace smugness, original hardware snobs, and good one fashioned 4channel dot org contrarianism

>>9517597
>It's a great little preservationist device,
That's my problem. Everyone got psyopped into thinking that software emulation is inherently inaccurate so you have a lot of people who basically just want the features of a PC emulator getting memed into paying 400 bucks for this.
Not to mention it isn't even "preservation" accurate. A neat quirk of the NES is the differing color pallettes on differing TVs. The Mister cannot emulate this feature accurately, as you need to manually select a pallette.
What about link cable support on GB/C/A games? Can you demonstrate this feature while paired with an original console? No!
What about utilizing custom chips on cartridges to expand features on consoles? You can't even plug cartridges into it.
I get it, as a guy who likes games and neat tech I can appreciate it, but most people use it exactly like they would use a PC emulator, by simply loading up roms and plugging it into an LCD. The only cool thing about it is arcade emulation considering you can finagle it to interact with a jamma harness.

>>9517761
>What about link cable support on GB/C/A games? Can you demonstrate this feature while paired with an original console? No!
I mean you can with the pocket, since it has the ports. Works perfect

>>9517690
>good old fashioned 4channel dot org contrarianism
It's just this. Faggots like >>9517761
will sit there and fabricate strawman arguments to farm (you)s because they know that the average MiSTer owner is profoundly autistic and can't resist trying to correct their contrived stupidity. I'm no exception.

Rest assured, though, this is pretty much all just performative.

>>9516451
>the input lag really is gone
It was never there in the first place
Imagine falling for memes, KWAB

>>9517597
Take a step back and look at how much of a douchebag the OP was, implying that the only way to enjoy games is on this gay device. That's why he's getting shit on

>>9517690
>good one fashioned 4channel dot org contrarianism
That's the misterfags tho.

>>9517853

>>9517863
Take your meta-contrarianism back to plebbit you zoomer faggot.

>>9517880
???

>>9517807
>t. slow tard brain

>>9517889
>t. faggot pretending to have superpowers

>>9517903
i also enjoy gaming at 120hz. guess im just larping about that too

My main problem with it is how often people will namedrop it in random threads for no reason.

somebody linked me a massive collection of mister formatted games from archive.org, among which there were neo geo games too, anybody got the link again?

>>9517761
>What about link cable support on GB/C/A games? Can you demonstrate this feature while paired with an original console? No!

For the GB/GBC, yes. The cores support it over the SNAC connection and there are SNAC cables for it.

For GBA currently no, the core does not support it yet, but the hardware is capable if the core got updated to support it.

>What about utilizing custom chips on cartridges to expand features on consoles?

It currently supports every expansion chip except those two SNES Mahjong games that had ARM co-processors on them. It even supports the SPC-7110 games, something not even SNES flashcarts support, and the homebrew "custom" SNES expansion chips like the MSU-1 or the additional custom hardware in the Atari 7800 version of Rikki and Vikki, of which only a single software emulator is able to run.... and only because the developer of the game made that emulator specifically to run his game on PCs.

>>9517909
You are lol. 120hz is an even bigger meme than input lag
You're like the dumb boomers who spend 80 bucks on an HDMI cable because the best buy employee told them it delivers a clearer picture than the 5 dollar one

>>9516615
there is next to zero settings fiddling with mister. this guy bought an apparently poorly constructed kit where shit didnt fit together properly

>>9517558
how does her boyfriend feel about it

>>9518049
youre right. im gonna give away all my gear and just stream games through a stadia. good bye everyone

>>9517761
>Everyone got psyopped
mister is a vastly better experience. shit isnt constantly getting broke every update like with mame and RA.you dont have to choose between smooth video, smooth audio, or increased input lag like with higan, mesen, bsnes, and every other standalone that doesnt do the retroarch AV sync thing.

it was worth the $300 I spent on it. everything it plays it plays better than my pc at 1/100th of the power. I have saved $50 off my last two electric bills since getting this thing.

>>9518078
these people act like mister is some kind of ponzi scheme

>>9518078
>input lag
You fell for the meme

>>9517863
im an original hardware chad, it's just obvious who the more deranged party is in these exchanges (hint it's people like you)

>>9518078
>shit isnt constantly getting broke every update
Works on my machine.

>>9516451
Why are you like this?

>>9517597
/vr/ doesn't hate the mister. /vr/ hates the insufferable faggots who can't stop shitposting about it.

>>9518351
i play videogames because they feel good, mechanically speaking. its satisfying to have the character move in sync with my command.

>>9518583
>its satisfying to have the character move in sync with my command.
>emulates on system with the same input lag as original hardware
Does not compute. Could I take a few minutes of your time to tell you about our Lord and Savior, Run Ahead?

>>9518774
Uhh, sorry sweaty, input lag is good when there's less of it than original hardware.

>>9516451
I had exactly the same experience, it's very fiddly and annoying to build. Especially that not where you have to drop the nuts down that weird hole then try and screw the bolt in and grasp the nut and permanently lock it in. Not as erotic as it sounds. There were also a few holes that still had material in. Had to drill out one completely. The buttons weren't quite long enough so had to glue some card shims on. Basically, lots of little problems that aren't deal breakers on their own but together make it super annoying and not worth the money.
But that's just the case. The board itself is a completely different story, it's really nicely laid out, some cool features other boards don't have (I like the SCART connector even if it's a stupid thing to put on instead of a Saturn-style DIN, the hdmi switches helped solved a problem with syncing and not having ports on every face means you can actually put it in an AV rack.
On the whole I'm happy with it, though. It gets far more use than any other retro system/emulsion box/whatever you want to call it.

>>9518774
Saying run-ahead is a viable way to get rid of input lag is like saying GGPO is the same as playing offline.

>>9518794
>>9518970

>>9518774
Run-ahead only works well when you use the same amount of frames that the game natively has lag. The common worst case is 2 frames, but emulators are so laggy that even 2 frames doesnt save it.
It's a very fucking good compromise though. When the options are between "hundreds of dollars" and "free software", I get it. Just dont go saying "it's as good", say "it's good enough for me"

>>9519207
Just use your phone, bro.

>>9518951
>nut locking
>short buttons
oh man ptsd. yep the case sucked bad. i snapped a piece of it off near the front usb area and had to super glue it back on. the board is great but they are definitely making good money at least on the cheap case, although i am happier with this thing as that experience recedes into the past.

Did anyone ever perform a double-blind test with that shit against just regular software emulation?
Would be funny to watch the shill cream himself over all the exquisite 1:1 details, only to be notified that he just played the game on a fucking raspberry pi

>>9519520
The sad thing is they probably aren't. There's an awful lot of material in the case. It's really just a limitation of 3d printing. I understand exactly why they went that route, but it doesn't stop the case being really annoying to work with and the tolerances being all wrong for the quality of print they can actually make.
Heber stuff is always quality though. I remember a lab I once taught in had a bunch of Heber stuff, including a powdered water machine.

What are some good cases for the classic sandwich? I kind of don't want to get rid of the fan so I can upgrade it to a noctua, but I'm really tempted to just grab MiSTer Addon's aluminum case since it would really reduce dust intake.

>>9519590
As funny as that would be, I can tell you that even through a CRT, RetroPie still has input delay issues and isn't powerful enough to use run-ahead for most consoles. Heck, it can barely run SNES and chokes on ROM hacks.

>>9519220

>>9520506
run ahead is cope

>>9520553
run ahead is banned in pro speedrunning.

>>9520506
>angry CRTard isn't even using a rPI 4 or retroarch
Keep hoarding those rare CRTs :^)

It took several years since the earliest MiSTer threads on /vr/ to come to terms with the fact that people on this board are willingly ignorant of the benefits of playing on MiSTer. They would rather not acknowledge that there is a different way to play retro games because it poses a threat in an argument against their preferred way to emulate. You can claim you're only here to bait, but deep down you know it's a coping mechanism.

>>9520565
so is sound mental health

>>9520621
/vr/ has put me in a position where im siding with literally disgusting speedrunners

>>9520506
>input delay
You fell for the meme, anon.

I've never felt input delay that "ruined" games in my life. I've been using emulators since the late 90s. This whole thing sounds like the biggest meme of all time to me.

>>9521215
You can definitely feel it on bad emulators like PCSX2. While input delay doesn't have to be a problem with emulation, it does take a pretty specific configuration to eliminate.

>>9520519
Just use your phone, bro.

>>9521215
If you have never eaten ice cream, you may think that ice with sugar is the same thing. If you played on the original console you feel the difference, but yeah input lag isn't critical for beating most games.

>>9521220
>You can definitely feel it
You fell for the meme, anon.

>you fell for the meme
>you fell for the meme
>my pi is just as good
>you fell for the meme
>I am not a poorfag
>You fell for the meme

>>9521409
>input lag is real
>input lag is real
>I have superhuman perception
>input lag is real
>I definitely didn't waste my money
>input lag is real

>>9521440
You don't need superhuman perception to notice 4-5 frames of cumulative input lag, which is easily achievable with out-of-the-box emulator configuration, display lag, and lag inherent to the game.

>>9521445
>heehee I love pretending to have superpowers

>>9521409
>>9521440
sour grapes + skill issue

>>9521450
>sour grapes
You don't know what this means lol

>>9521447
lol this cope isn't even over being too poor to afford real hardware or a MiSTer. This is cope because this anon is too retarded to notice when things happen a quarter second late. Confirmed this fagit runs at 4hz max lmao

>>9521454
>I'm so super special and you're not :^)

>>9521454
>a quarter second late
Input delay is already a meme but my god imagine pretending 15 frames of input lag is a thing under any circumstances kek you're retarded

>>9520506
Input delay is not a big deal, you can get used to it.

>>9521525
why should i get used to it? thats not fun

>>9521530
you don't even notice it, it just happens

>>9521525
Post 1CC with input delay. INb4 ufirst. You're the one arguing that it doesn't matter. Prove it or be proven the nigger.

>>9521525
Not if it's something unscripted that you have to react to

>>9521545
>go to YouTube
>title name + 1cc
>90% of the results are emulation

>>9521557
>brain delay

>>9521545
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9EmyBRMY7M

played with MAME 0.226

>>9520506
>>9521525
>>9521590
Input lag can definitely be a perceptible problem, but there's both people who dramatically oversell its existence, prominence, and impact, as well as those trying to pretend that it's actually nothing.
In truth, input lag can vary widely for a very large amount of different reasons, given how different games work differently, different displays work differently, and different software emulators and hardware emulators differ amongst each other as well as original hardware, along with potential settings, there's hundreds of variables determining what kind of input lag you can be looking at. In many cases it truly isn't perceptible, others may be subtly perceptible, and some where it has an appreciable impact on the player's experience without them having to be a turbo-autistic speedrunner who can do arbitrary code execution in their sleep.
It's cumulative.

https://youtu.be/b3tbcUszA2s?t=515

>>9521525
You're right, I can get used to it, but why would when there are solutions for mitigating it and in other cases completely eliminating it?

>>9521749
I appreciate what the section of the video you linked demonstrates which justifies some of my own research and adds merit to what people have taught me from different retro gaming communities. This is why I am really interested in the MiSTer and frequently visit my locals to play the one they set up since I can't afford my own yet. The FPGA itself doesn't have any lag; and disregarding how accurate the core is, so the program gets sent out as is. Further down the pipeline is where the potential accumulative lag begins to be introduced.

>Input Device
You can either use the direct serial port to interface original hardware via SNAC. Direct serial has no inherent lag, but even an OEM controller might have some, yet not enough that you won't notice. USB on the other hand has to translate your inputs at the OS level which might add delay but nowhere near half a frame so it is up to you to choose a device that has an encoder with the least amount of delay.

see:
MiSTer Input Latency Database [full detailed sheet linked on the page]
https://rpubs.com/misteraddons/inputlatency

>Game itself
Some games have a different kind of delay due to how the programmer affixed the sprite flow and input command as well as other underlying programming variables which might cause undesirable performance. Some of these inconsistencies can be fixed or changed by the community as needed.

>Display
In my opinion, playing over a CRT display is the optimal way to play the MiSTer. There are plenty of options that will suit people of all budgets. As for digital displays, you have an abundance of choice and you will get the best results with a "gaming" monitor designed to provide the least amount of lag.

Or, you can just buy each console you want to play for peace of mind that you are experiencing the game as originally intended.

>>9521991
i went with mister and oled, im not so autistic that i want a room full of old consoles and some big ass old tv.

mister is accurate and doesnt have the AV sync issues higan, bsnes, and mesen have (even in retroarch) reduced input lag is just a bonus I dont even notice. I do notice my games no longer microstutter.

>>9522154
>mister is accurate and doesnt have the AV sync issues my windows desktop has
Ftfy

>>9516570
top kek

>>9517330
>cuz hardly anyone wants that
>everyone prefers flash carts
>$60 Dollar 3D printed case
>$60
>3D printed
I can't even

>>9518078
>I have saved $50 off my last two electric bills since getting this thing.
i r8 8/8

>>9522862
the 3d printing plans are available for free, but only faggots have 3d printers.

>>9522864
I did tho

>>9518078
you are such a gullible and useful idiot.

Anons here calling out Big MiSTer and its evil CEO, Mr MiSTer (yes, the band).

>>9524470
im starting to think /vr/ is full of moms who dont want you to spend your allowance on anymore nintendo

>>9517863
It's just you.

>>9521215
Input lag ruins lots of games, really any game that is based on reactions, which is most.

It doesn't matter if it's not as bad as laggy rhythm gaming, playable input lag is still bad.

>>9524972
I dont even think it ruins games based on reactions that much (although Samurai Kirby is literally impossible on emulator)
I feel like just game game with platforming. Those 1-tile gap platforming sections in Mega Man is so much easier on these fpgay shit. That guy who is saying "you're a superhuman if you actually notice the difference in input lag" is sorta wrong. You dont really notice the input lag, but when you play something with less of it, you sure play better without even trying.

Rant:

Most casuals would rather have things mainstreamed. Discussion beyond the simplified details is redundant to them. Anything casuals have to say never leads to them coming to an understanding or learning. They're allergic to the underlying details.

>why do you make a big deal out of something that doesn't affect me?
>why do you put so much importance in something that holds no significance to me?
>why do these details matter when I can conform to it's drawbacks without a problem?

Casuals don't practice games, they just play a game for as long as they can bare and move on. You cannot convince a casual that input delay or emulator accuracy can actually improve their performance in games. If they suck, they just leave it at that and move on. MiSTer is actually a realistic solution for anybody that wants to play certain games within the boundaries of the supported console cores as if you were to play on real hardware. We don't know if the parts needed for the MiSTer are going to get any cheaper than they were in 2021, but it's worth the investment if you're serious about wanting to play games as accurately as possible to real hardware while also having little to no input delay. Run-ahead is not a realistic solution and I would rather agree with autistic speedrunner regulations. If you're fine with what software emulators offer, you should stick to your own threads instead of coming here to shit up MiSTer threads.

>>9525271
Yup. Casuals even hate games with problems like this without thinking about it too much. If you give them the controller to play Mario on a laggy TV then they'll get bored and frustrated without realizing why a lot of times. They're much more likely to attribute it to "I guess this game isn't fun" than to the actual problem, cause they still have a worse time playing.

>>9524297
your mom is

Who is the target audience for the mister? I'd think that most of the "just emulate for free" people either have a collection of original hardware + CRT or only have their computer to play games on. I'd personally buy one, but only because I don't have a console collection due to being mainly a PC guy.

Has anyone tried out the AO486 core? Is it like configuring a virtual machine, where you can select different VHDs and virtual hardware? Or is it a constant (SB+16GB harddisk+SVGA VESA card) configuration? Does it support external devices like my USB floppy drive or ethernet?

>>9525380
It's easily the most convenient and cheapest way to have a large number of devices on easily portable emulation. This is especially relevant for arcade games, since MAME is also really bad at accuracy. I see lots of people who play fighting games with these things and they'll take them to tournaments. It's better and more consistent than a laptop for sure.

>>9525380
>Who is the target audience for the mister?
The mistake a lot of people make is that they view the MiSTer FPGA project like a commercial product (i.e Analogue) when in fact it's just an enthusiast venture. The only people making immediate profit off of the project are the people selling pre-built add-ons for the DE-10 Nano to be used with the MiSTer FPGA project, and of course Terasic for each DE-10 Nano unit sold. Sorg, the main developer, is not directly profiting off this project, but he does accept donations which is a huge difference from providing services for pay. Some add-on sellers do state on their website that a portion of each sale will be donated to Sorg so this kind of transparency shows which sellers we should be buying from as well if you don't plan to build your own add-ons.

Most vocal people in the "just emulate for free" category don't actually provide any solid arguments or convincing points to add weight to their posts so I would prefer to disregard them.

There is a surprising amount of people in the MiSTer FPGA community who already have hardware collections and are convinced they can sell parts of their collections with no regrets. The biggest contributing factors to why most haven't pulled the trigger is sentimental value as well as trying to hold on for huge returns in the collector's market. As for people who do have hardware collections plus a CRT and aren't interested in the MiSTer, they are fine where they are because they are not in search of a solution to replicate what they can already do now.

>Has anyone tried out the AO486 core?
It's in the middleground between setting up real hardware and virtual machines as far as involvement goes, but it's a lot closer to setting up a virtual machine. I have not used external accessories besides mouse and keyboard, but I believe it does support Real-Time Clock and definitely MIDI.

>>9524972
You fell for the meme, anon.
>>9524981
Literally blaming your skill issues on the input lag meme. Lmfao, lol even. What happens when you get a mister and you still suck? Will you blame the phase of the moon?

>>9516451
god that thing looks horrid, why didnt you just get the aluminum case? do you really need the thing to look like some sort of console that fucking bad? what's the fucking point?

I don't see why anyone would spend $4,000 on a mister when you could just use a pc. My mom let me put a graphics card in her old onlyfans pc and it works great.

>>9525623
A lot of people have convinced themselves that emulation comes with noticeable input lag that ruins the games, as though they could reliably perceive individual milliseconds
Obviously this is just cope but it's how they justify throwing money away

>>9516451
>That will be $60 + tax

>>9525650
They're really just charging you for the PCBs required for the form ractor than they are for the case.

>>9525671
im pretty sure the pcbs are the $200 retard annon

>>9525646
Do you use your mom's onlyfans pc too?

>>9516451
You're not special.

>>9525710
Nah I use that for porn

>>9521749
The new ports of Doom I think make a good example, I think they came with Vertical Sync on by default, and it adds a subtle, but VERY real delay on your input which really does fuck with your ability to play the game. Turning it off, suddenly I could actually act on my reactions appropriately and I wasn't eating shit at every moment and corner, it was almost like when playing on PC (barring cumbersome weapon switching).

Input lag is very much real. and it can absolutely be really bad.

I question the manhood of those who don't lie tinkering with both hardware and software.

>>9526686
I tinker a lot with software, and I like tinkering with mechanical stuff, but I would have no fucking idea about tinkering with electronic stuff at all.

>>9526686
>lie

>>9517597
don't hate, just think it's kind of pointless considering the price it comes at(particularly when most of the systems it can do have had emulation at such a mature state that the differences are very minimal) when you could either buy a much more powerful and portable emulation device for cheaper(the majority of the various Android/Linux handhelds made in the last couple of years), or one that is even more powerful and still portable with the ability to play modern PC games and potentially even use as a full on computer for not a whole lot more(Steam Deck and many of the other Windows/Steam OS devices that are starting to pop up with more and more frequency), and that's not even going into just using a smart phone or tablet or streaming box/stick you already have lying around for that purpose

>>9526673
You fell for the meme, anon

>>9525650
This is why I hate 3D printed stuff. At the end of the day it just looks like shit.

>>9527078
Based on these threads a lot of people using and shilling mister hopped on the bandwagon back when the hardware was much cheaper
>android
abysmal for latency why even bring this up

>>9524891
It's full of seething neets buttmad they can only afford to download snes9x and stolen Roms.

>>9527202
this, except replace neets with 3rd worlders

>>9527095
>At the end of the day I know nothing about it
Don't feel bad champ. The faggots who print cringe like that don't know much more than you.

>>9527078
The casual/mainstream market never sees value in specialized hardware, they're too obsessed with convenience and abundance to care about the benefits. Most casuals don't want to have the headaches of worrying about things like accuracy or input timing and are quick to dismiss any discrepancies they think are irrelevant, they just need the game to run and that's it. Software emulation and MiSTer may be visually difficult to distinguish under several circumstances to the average person such as color output or ability to render the game in sync with everything else. The line can be tough to draw for most on which is better because the FPGA-based emulators have quickly caught up and even exceeded it's cycle accurate software counterparts in many technical areas. For any applicable cores, MiSTer has more accurate sound (certified against MDfourier). Most importantly, no core has input delay that isn't native to the original game or hardware, something all software emulators still haven't nailed down without the use of run-ahead (banned on speedrun). Input delay is always a subject easily dismissed by the typical casual because you're not practicing a game enough to begin to care about getting optimal input timings in, you just need to play your game and that's it. If you're only concerned that the game runs as best as it could outside of using original hardware, I don't see why having all these options for different budgets hurts.

most of these people only play retrogames as a cope because theyre abundant and easy to steal. naturally they dont want to know about any inprovements that cost money.

>>9527548
>The casual/mainstream market never sees value in specialized hardware,
stopped reading there

>>9527548
>I don't see why having all these options for different budgets hurts.
stopped reading there

>>9527657
That's not wrong in theory. As >>9527639 pointed out a lot of people only play /vr/ because they're poor. What's incorrect is that you get anything for this more expensive option except for spergy tautologies like "input lag bad unless you get rid of input lag then speedtrannies prohibit it so it doesn't count"

>>9527548
stop posting this tranny drawn by a mexican

>>9527667
you can feel the input lag without being some fag speedrunner. boot up sonic 2 and move him around, it feels slippery as shit and stupid. its not fun. can you beat the game like that? obviously. does it feel good and is it fun to play? fuck no

>>9527684
>boot up sonic 2 and move him around, it feels slippery as shit and stupid
That's just Sonic 2. Input lag has nothing to do with that

>>9527684
>Reading comprehension

>>9527667
so now we're gonna justify that only poor people play /vr/ and there's no need to "overspend". that's some goalpost moving. if you're happy with a neat little $50 raspberrypi setup or just loading it up on your toaster, just say so.

>>9527738
I specifically said the opposite of that.

>>9516517
de10 with direct video is better quailty anyway

>>9525590
the aluminum cases looked more annoying to put together

>>9525512
>Most vocal people in the "just emulate for free" category don't actually provide any solid arguments or convincing points to add weight to their posts so I would prefer to disregard them.
I just use real hardware, but I think the prospect of achieving 90+% of what a Mister can do for free is a pretty good point lmao.
Honestly just tired of everybody on either side whining about how their solution is inherently superior in every way. Some people want the best solution, and some people don't want to spend the money. And I'll fully admit I'm retarded with flash carts/odes for all and RGB/component cables.

>>9530362
takes 3 minutes, lmfao

>>9530428
maybe you shouldve told me that before. In any case, the one I got also has an on/off power switch.

Call me when they play 5th gen games.

>>9530659
what consoles is that again

>>9530659
There are PSX and Saturn cores already, N64 is impossible on Cyclone V

>>9530859
Proving yet again that N64 is superior to PSX

>>9530859
>There are PSX and Saturn cores already,
Okay thats awesome.
What would a machine that runs those cost me?

>>9530859
>first console with bad emulation is the console mister can't emulate
it's like pottery

>>9530863
about tree fiddy

>>9530874
they said psx and saturn were impossible too. also jaguar which is in the works.

>>9531608
psx is pretrty much done. once they get bored of finishing saturn, theyll turn to n64

>>9531608
>doing Jaguar before N64
For what purpose?

>>9531918
Because N64 is believed to be impossible, and very well may be. Also the current state of Jaguar emulation is a joke even compared to N64 emulation from years ago.

Believe me, I would prefer to have N64 over the Jaguar a million times over too.

>>9532074
It's just cursed, isn't it? With no adequate replacement sticks or controllers, I'll just never have it all again, huh?

>>9532081
There were those metal joystick replacements, but they cost a stupid amount of money.

>>9531918
whoever is doing is more interested in doing that than anything else

>>9532119
I could cope with that if they were ever available.

>>9527546
>champ
ok Shooter

>>9532123
do or do not

>>9532081
This is great

>>9532221
You sound miffed chief

Input lag is audiophool-tier placebo. No more accurate than software emulator. Can't emulate the really inaccurate shit like PS2, Xbox or Caveshit arcade.

>>9532458
>t. sucks at games

>>9532476
>if you don't pretend to have superhuman perception like me it means you suck at games

>>9532528
>superhuman perception
Aren't you sick of being humiliated by now?

>>9532476
LEM in CSGO. I can say that I'm more perceptive of input lag than most.

>>9532532
>y-you've b-b-ben humil-l-liated
Seethe

>>9532528
>superhuman perception
lmao git gud, see >>9521749

>>9532458
You realize it'd be less embarrassing if you were coping because poor instead of just too retarded to notice, right?

>>9532081
What are you talking about? The sticks are piss easy to rebuild and it cheap as fuck:
https://store.kitsch-bent.com/collections/replacement-parts

>>9532795
>he can't perceive individual milliseconds kek how embarrassing
>luckily I am superhuman
The delusion is strong

>>9532458
it's not, the shitty psp emulator has like 6 frames of input delay, playing GNG ultimate on it fucking sucks ass

ITT:
>NOOO DON'T GET THE MISTER BECAUSE EMULATION IS FREE!
>INPUT DELAY IS A LIE, THEY LIED TO YOU!
Get a job and discover what being able to afford things is like. Disposable income is a delicious perk. Otherwise, if you already have a job and you still can't afford several luxuries, you're clearly trying to compensate somewhere else which your budget hardly has room for and the MiSTer is the least of your worries.

>>9533086

>>9532897
Nothing superhuman about it kiddo. Normal people can detect delays of less than 1ms. Look it up. If you can't detect a 16+ms delay you're literally a defective subhuman.

>>9533174
Not him, but got any sources in what perceivable latencies are?

>>9532803
>kitsch bent

>T-t-there is no such thing as input lag!
>S-s-so what? It won't effect games anyway!
>B-b-but I can just use run-ahead for free and get the same thing!

https://youtu.be/u0XuAoSm0P8?t=1275

>>9533174
The difference of just 1ms wouldn't be perceptible, but 15ms would absolutely be perceptible, especially if you're familiar with the game in question. It's a subtle difference, probably won't break the game for you in most cases, but you'd totally feel it.
50ms or so would be the kind where it would make an actual difference in high speed gameplay, where you legit would struggle to react in the same way as you would in a setup that's better.

>>9533184
Look at the time on the linked video here, >>9521749
It's a simple demonstration. The fact that the Switch re-release of Super Mario 64 has fucking 150ms (ONE HUNDRED AND GODDAMN FIFTY!) of input lag is pretty insane, that's a Silent Hill HD Collection kind of buttfucking of a beloved classic, maybe even worse.

>>9533404
Misreply?

I KNOW none of you niggers actually know half the shit you claim to about latency because none of you have mentioned audio latency which is far larger and harder to mitigate than video latency as far as emulation is concerned.

>>9533449
The only time I noticed audio latency was when trying to play with a pair of Bluetooth earbuds, just to get a feel for what it's like. Very perceptible, incredibly distracting. I haven't experienced any kind of audio lag like that short of trying to run games way too demanding for my poor toaster back in the 2000s (but even when the hardware was outright on its deathbed, it was never as bad).
That's Bluetooth though, possibly the worst option for wireless anything when it comes to games.

>>9533420
What do you want, a sourced article with scholarly peer review? The software demonstration in the video (and its synched and timed recordings of each version of the game), shows pretty conclusively how perceptible input lag actually can be, differentiating what's acceptable and what's not.

>>9532476
ret.ard

>>9527093
It was probably about as bad as 60 or maybe even 70 milliseconds when playing with vertical sync (on by default). If you've got some experience with Doom, particularly console ports, and if you ever tried this out, you WILL notice this.

It genuinely made the game hard when it shouldn't be, as in eating shit left and right in Knee Deep In The Dead on UV because in spite of my brain reacting like usual, the signal from my thumb interacting with the sticks and buttons are too slow, so in spite of reacting to the Shotgun Baldy and already drafting a plan for the other one on the left, he shoots me before I fully turn (and of course he scores a full hit with the PRNG rolling all fives). I've been playing Doom for like 25 years, with mouse and keyboard, gamepads, even keyboard only, or a joystick at times, I've even played the shitty console ports, and I've never struggled with Doom like THAT. Perhaps short of getting bodied when vainly trying to inch through Plutonia keyboard only when I played that first time as a kid (Doom 95 didn't recognize the mouse drivers of Windows 2000 and later).

I turn up the analog stick sensitivity all the way, and it doesn't help. Then unchecking vertical sync, it gives. I move, when I react to what happens in the game and press the buttons, the input carries forth in time. Knee Deep In The Dead is now a breeze again, and I can comfortably play Plutonia. Sure, analog stick for turning isn't as good as a mouse for turning, and the weapon selecting is clunky and slow (the Doom 64 port does it better), so it's not as good as playing with Crispy Doom on PC, but it's properly playable and enjoyable.
When I'm killed, the fault is actually my own because I make tactical errors, not because I was completely unable to properly interact with and sync with the game like normal.

Regrettably, as this port is running in a Unity wrapper, vertical sync is non-negotiable on the Switch, so you can't switch it off there, not even the devs can.

What's the state of PlayStation and Saturn on MiSTer?

Input lag is only really bad when it's too much. I discovered that when I was stuck with a potato setup, having almost no means of mitigating the latency. I had from 3 to 4 frames of input lag. During that timeframe, almost half a year, I got used to playing platformers in those conditions. When I got back a better setup, with mainly a single frame of input lag, I was having trouble and playing bad, because I acted "too early". Of course, time and habit corrected that, but it was pretty curious and ironic to see that "timing" is a very real concept, and not only delays might trouble you, but also anticipation.

If someone is interested, I know a easy way to *subjectively* (not objectively; please, learn the difference between these words) measure how input lag affects you.

tl;dr: if not exaggerated, the amount of input lag you're acclimated to won't bother you.

>>9525512
>just emulate for free

Fuck these parasites they contribute nothing, not even bug reports or patreon. Mister is better off without them.

>>9518365
There are only a couple of sour grapes fags who hate on it, they are incredibly noisy though.

Can someone explain to me why mister threads are full of shitflinging and shill accusations when actual shill threads for Anbernic and Retrotink devices are allowed to prosper? Why are people so mad about FPGA here?

>>9533838
Yeah. A little bit is no big deal, but when you have a lot of factors contributing together and it gets high, it's misery. If you don't have the financial means to address this (depending on the problems), then those games are just no fun. Turnbased games have a certain appeal for these situations.

>>9533787
Playstation is about as good as Duckstation/Mednafen. Saturn is still beta work in progress.

>>9534080
Everyone can appreciate that a scaler is always better than HDTV scaling, so shilling is tolerated since these devices are an improvement regardless. The MiSTer has no obvious benefits to the average gamer, so people seeing enthusiasts promote this like if it was worth its weight in gold trigger the "shill alarm". Most people don't understand the niche the MiSTer fills, and those that do have strong opinions for and against.

>>9534080
I only hate the obnoxious mister fanboys not the hardware

>>9534117
So people see other people enjoying something so they decide to go into the thread just to shit on it? Say it ain’t so, not on 4chan!

>>9533838
I've always had easy accessibility to hardware at the arcades and at friends which meant I would always be exposed to various degrees of input delay. At home, I would usually not have fun playing certain games wishing it would "feel" the same as when I play on hardware but I was never sure why. Then I learned about input delay and this hobby just changed forever for me. If I'm playing with casual friends, I can ignore the delay since we're all playing the game under the same conditions, but when I am by myself, I must have the most optimal setup I can afford.

>>9534080
Before the MiSTer, there have been many commercialized attempts to capitalize on the retro gaming market but also open source solutions. We currently have the Analogue consoles, there is also Evercade, and then the countless handheld/portable/micro devices directly marketed at emulation enthusiast or have popular frontends for emulators. People have definitely been burned by the lies these devices were sold upon. Also, the popularization of the Raspberry Pi and the RetroPie project have really marred the image of dedicated emulation devices specially because they are low powered devices which underperform against most other emulation solutions. MiSTer is a project being developed on the DE-10 Nano which is another low powered device. The main difference is that it is FPGA which means [in laymen's terms] it is more flexible when it comes to running closer to the real hardware it is imitating since the core [emulator if you wanna call it that] is actually attempting to run at the real clock speed of the target hardware. A lot of people are understandably skeptical, others have already settled for other solutions [besides hardware] and prefer to not research yet another way to play due to caution of finding out it's not worth it afterall. Then there are shitposters that have no intention to progress the discussion who know the most defensive MiSTer fans will eat the bait right away.

>>9533184
Yes. And with 10 seconds on google you will as well. Search for something like: human detect delay millisecond. Choose any of the millions of results you feel is trustworthy.

>>9533404
Plenty of studies have shown even less than 1ms is perceptible. See above. I'm not saying anything about whether it makes a difference when playing one game or another. All I'm saying is that if that anon really can't perceive a several ms of lag then he has brain damage. Simple as.

>>9534171
Honestly, I just want hope to see discussions about the MiSTer itself in these topics. New cores, changes, what's going on with it, any new boards or other form factors other than the common sandwich, etc. I couldn't care less about the MiSter vs Pi vs PC emulation arguments.

>>9534430
The articles and studies I found all place the value within about 10-30ms. Where are you getting your info from?

>>9534465
the poorfags will derail any attempt

>>9534430
>>9534531
https://cogsci.yale.edu/sites/default/files/files/Thesis2017Banatt.pdf

>>9534550
>Average noticeable input latency of about 40ms, but outliers can detect about
5 ms
Interesting, I suppose that explains why the impact of input latency is so controversial.

>>9534465
The root of the problem is that when MiSTer first came out, there were a ton of retards who went around on forums claiming the MiSTer is 100% accurate and better than software emulators. We saw that here too in the earliest MiSTer threads. It's hard not to be excited about the MiSTer which just feels so good, but not a lot of people chose their words carefully when trying to explain it to people in most communities so more often than not, they came off as obnoxious snobs. Of course, this annoyed a shit ton of people and it extended into trolling. It made it hard for MiSTer to be accepted in certain communities, mostly because there was (still is) a lot of doubt since these kind of projects tend to be overhyped and unfruitful. Much of the resentment still remains to this day, but the more the MiSTer gets coverage, the more people can understand it.

>>9534558
>The root of the problem is that when MiSTer first came out, there were a ton of retards who went around on forums claiming the MiSTer is 100% accurate and better than software emulators.
This seems to be made up in your head.

>>9534531
Intardasting. Maybe google thinks you're a zoomer and is trying to protect you from information that would trigger you? Maybe try duck duck go?

>>9516451
I don’t understand... why not just pay 70$ for a used chrome book?

>>9534565
Have you even read that article? This is about the ability to perceive desynchronization, not latency in general.
>The negative delay, adjusted in fractions of a thousandth of a second, was produced by filters that shift audio selectively at certain frequencies to a different point in time without affecting the magnitude of sound.

>>9534562
Fuck you, all the mister threads were about that for months. The USP only became latency recently.

>>9534574
Nah you're a delusional faggot.

>>9534572
inputlatencybros... did we get too cocky??

>>9516451
>the "why yes, I 3d printed it myself, how'd you know?" striation of shame

>>9534565
the ability to detect the frequency of sound vibrations (aka musical notes) is not the same of being cognizant of half a ms time delays

>>9534430
>even less than 1ms is perceptible
We are beginning to take the meme a little too far with this one lol

Whenever someone posts
>you didn't beat the game
Just remember they bought a fucking mister.

>>9534080
There's a strange subset of posters here who get incredibly insecure when a dedicated device is better at a particular task (even if only in certain ways) than the general purpose hardware they happen to own/were given. For MiSTer, it's the PC master race types. In handheld threads, it's the "just use your phone, bro" posters. Typical console war bullshit, don't see why they can't have a /free emulation software on modified office and telecommunications equipment/ general of their own to talk about how free their emulators are.

>>9535127
>the electron gun of my CRT is shooting one electron about a nanometer to the left. It's completely unplayable now. I hate those kids having fun with videogames! It should be all about constant fiddling and tail-chasing perfection!

>>9534558
They're not wrong though.
As of right now NES, SNES, MD, Sega CD and several arcade ports are 1:1 with original hardware. I believe the Amiga platforms are as well but I'm not an expert. Ps1 is damn close and so are most other cores.
Mister is needed in an environment full of shills trying to sell 30 year old plastic for thousands.
I don't think its a replacement for emulation though and both can coexist and benefit from each other.

>>9535283
Also forgot to mention that you get the low latency without any special autistic cables or scalers. AND you still have analog out for CRTs. It's a great solution for both CRTfags and sensible people with good monitors.

>>9535283
>I don't think its a replacement for emulation though and both can coexist and benefit from each other.

Only the most autistic of the autists would try to argue that software emulation has no place just because the MiSter exists. For the majority of people software emulation is enough, for those who want something higher-end and/or want to be as close to the original hardware as possible the MiSTer is the way to go if they can afford it. It's like someone arguing that because Ferraris exist then there is no reason for Ford to exist.

>>9535193
>There's a strange subset of posters here who get incredibly insecure when a dedicated device is better at a particular task
You mean like original hardware?

>>9535283
That's so cool I've been waiting forever for emulation to support the SNES.

>>9535581
There was a reason I phrased it so ambiguously. Don't worry.

>>9534558
>The root of the problem is that when MiSTer first came out, there were a ton of retards who went around on forums claiming the MiSTer is 100% accurate and better than software emulators.
Or you're unable to read text correctly and you interpret (create) meaning that didn't exist.

Okay, can someone explain as if I was five as to what the fuck the Mister is?
I'm a tourist that usually only comes here to talk about handhelds, and I have no clue what this is supposed to be.

>>9536626
device that emulates old consoles and computers more accurately than software emulators without any input delay and works with modern displays

it's a godsend being able to use any sort of modern controller with it, without having to deal with OS layer input delay using a PC

>>9536636
Huh, I'm assuming I would have to pay a lot, probably more because I'm European

>>9536642
check if terasic has offices in your country and email them and ask if they have any instock in their warehouse to save on shipping and all thst doody nonsense. I did this. They setup a payment link, got it in 2 days for $231

>>9536636
>OS layer input delay
We really are just saying whatever when it comes to this meme huh

>>9536636
USB has to translate your inputs at the OS level which does add delay, but the biggest contributor to USB lag is the input encoder itself.

>>9516451
yeah it's an ugly piece of shit that takes the open source MiSTer boards and closes the source for no reason. Pathetic UK faggot youtubers trying to push this thing profiting off of open source developers efforts.

>>9534572
Which "that article" of the 2,610,000 "that articles" are you referring to? I posted a google search so an anon who was unable to find relevant results could see what to search for.

>>9534610
The inability to reading comprehension is not the same as the compulsion to cope. Although there is a strong correlation.

>>9536920
there's API's too like emulators using Direct Input.

>>9536805
retard

>>9537102
Aren't there solutions like KMS Linux mode that mitigates a lot of that "OS layer" input lag?

>>9538017
That's for video lag but since mister also uses Linux for USB input it should give similar results if combined with Run Ahead.

>>9516451
Why the case is so ugly? Does the mister community didn't have any industrial designers?

I'd never house hardware in 3d printed pla. Looks and feels like cheap shit worse than a bootleg

>>9538147
I still wish someone would make a micro tower form factor or a sleek case.

>>9538147
this is the closest

>>9538147
>the mister community didn't have any industrial designers?
Well, they had me, but I was "invited to leave" because I wasn't willing to accept shoddy jobs.

>>9538351
why not design something yourself and rake it in like the misteraddons guy and his case

>>9538351
It's an open source project though, nobody is stopping you from doing whatever you want.

>Antonio Villena
That guy does exactly whatever the fuck he wants and abides by his own standards.

>MiSTerAddons (Porkchop Express)
Follows Sorg's standards and is very uniform with his add-ons

>MikeS
The main devs didn't think anybody was seriously interested in composite or s-video and they suggested people should just use an adapter. MikeS went out of his way to make his own y/c cores with proper output for composite and s-video. Not only that, he released the schematics in full detail so that you can either build it yourself or make a batch on JLCPCB.

>>9538314
You can already do that with an ironclad
https://www.d3fmod.com/product/mini-itx_ironclad_plus/

Where's the best place to order a premade aluminum case MiSTer at? I don't really care about the price.

>>9538713

Pricey but nice looking.

https://misteraddons.com/collections/parts/products/aluminum-passively-cooled-case

>>9538730
That's what I'm looking for but it's not a prebuilt and I haven't seen any in stock anywhere.

>>9538748
>https://misteraddons.com/collections/parts/products/aluminum-passively-cooled-case

On the same site is says aluminum kits available in late January.

I bought one from this site last year and it has been the best gaming related purchase I have made in a LONG time.

>>9538759
I think that's referring to the whole build with a DE-10. the standard cases are still in stock even the popular purple one

>>9538505
I know about the ironclad, but I personally think it's overkill for my needs since I rarely spend time in the computer cores. I would mostly like a micro case that is built around the DE-10 nano itself or it's sandwich form factor.

>>9538774
I am. It looks like nobody has any in stock.

>>9538147
sega invented gamecube?