/vr/ - Retro Games

>>9495117
Let people enjoy things.

>>9495119
Ultima Underworld came out a whole year before and beats the piss out of DOOM. It even had dynamic lighting, fog and other effects, and real 3D.

>>9495117
It's not the perfection that quite a few make it out to be, but it's a fun game with great aesthetics, even if it is a bit repetitive. It also has a ton of WAD's made for it.

>>9495117
The engine is actually very advanced for a 1993 game.
>perspective corrected textures
>3d audio positioning
>huge draw distances
>bsp trees based optimization to avoid drawing unnecessary stuff
The graphics renderer and gameplay are both 3D. Map format is not 3D but still allows for impressive geometry. Compare to something like Tomb Raider or Turok, where maps are made of very simplistic building blocks. Even with real 3D objects and over/under rooms, these two have more primitive maps and laughable draw distances.

>>9495140
Pathways Into Darkness, a MACINTOSH game, came out months before DOOM and was fun, looked better, and had a better engine.

>>9495127
Not a shooter.

>>9495148
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUdUauuwXi0&list=PLIRNLnUUPemT38TWWcNkSnwOf0RUUyeOT

>>9495148
Low quality bait

Yeah. When I was a kid I played Duke3D first and was blown away by how good it was. But I knew Doom was more famous so I thought it must be amazing. Was really disappointed when I finally played it. It kind of feels like a cheap Chinese knock-off of a brand name product. Soulless and generic, devoid of personality.

>>9495148
So where is it now?

>>9495149
It's a shooter, you can "shoot" magic, sling stones, snowballs, arrows and bolts...

>>9495152
It's a BETTER 3D shooter than DOOM and came out earlier.

>>9495154
It became Marathon which became Halo which is now a multi tens of billion dollar series.

>>9495153
I remember Duke3D being shat on by gaming mags because it was very outdated for a 1996 game. The tech progressed really fast.

>>9495160
The fact that the "story" and "plot" are basically nonexistent was made into a tradition by ID software, which has ONLY produced soulless games, however technically advanced, ever since.

>>9495158
You are legit blind and retarded, that's a Wolfenstein 3D tier primitive game

>>9495127
>SOVL

>>9495163
It's not, LOL.

>>9495170
Show me the most advanced and best looking level in this game

>>9495160
Yep I remember that too. Also, during that period they tended to shit on anything that wasn't designed around multiplayer deathmatches, since that's what all the Edgy 90s Gamer Bros were into at the time. This led to the trend of "token singleplayer campaigns" and eventually de-facto multiplayer-only games like Unreal Tournament. It took another 10 or 15 years before devs started caring about singleplayer again. Mostly because Indie devs were starting to make serious money focusing on it.

>>9495172
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8EbOHul7oM

Just watch this, it's merely the first level. You'll see how much more advanced the thing is right off the bat.

>>9495172
It's based.

>>9495162
I would agree but Duke3D has zero "story" and "plot" as well

>>9495182

>>9495185

It's a 7/10, influential and fun but level design is not that great and it got mogged by almost every Build engine game that came after

Most people don't know it but Mac 3D games beat the piss out of PC 3D games for quite a while because Apple created Quickdraw 3D which worked great years before OpenGL was on the PC. Only zoomers think Macs lacked 3D capability. Of course the good ones were expensive, much more expensive than most home computers. The mostly lame all on ones are what most people were exposed to.

I think there's like a lot of non-US people who never even saw a Mac as well as zoomers at play here. DOOM was not the best 3D FPS type game not even on the PC at the time.

>>9495201
>It's a 7/10, influential and fun
Come on now, it's fun maybe to play it through but even at the time, it had limited replay value.

>>9495127
>>9495148
Shit games.
>>9495153
>devoid of personality
Only feels that way because everyone copied them.

Sage

Pirating is only way to play original doom and that sucks

>>9495226
>Shit games.
Ultima Underworld is one of the most classic MS-DOS games, and one of the classic 3D games, it has a fun plot, great gameplay, RPG and FPS elements blending, it's proto Skyrim.

Even if you don't like it, that doesn't make it a shit game.

Same with Pathways Into Darkness. Which is pure kino.

>>9495227
Can't you buy it on floppy, CD-ROM, or even ZIP disk?

Anyway you can no longer buy Ultima Underworld series games, or Syndicate series games either. EA pulled 'em and that's that.

>>9495158
Oh so it's shit, got it.

>>9495148
damn that's a... a distinctive art style. makes me think of zoombinis, or cluefinders or shit like that. I'd play it.

>>9495235
Why's this innocent thread made you so angry? What problem do you have with Ultima Underworld? It's magical and fun.

>>9495175
>More advanced
Holy shit, you're retarded. Where is the verticality? Where is the moving scenery? Where is the lighting effects?

>>9495250
It just looks much better, it's smoother. They released Marathon shortly after that which fixes all those issues anyhow.

>>9495127
keep in mind, this is what smt ripped off

>>9495117
Not even in the right way
https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/616211796/#q616211796

>>9495162
The lack of a proper story is why Doom had that much staying power to begin with
The setting's "messy presentation" only meant people argued over "Doom is supposed to be X" and come up with their own interpretations
This is also why later games have different takes on the series and people argue which understood the game better, while also having different canons or "lore"
But people also got creative with the setting, by either making up redesigns of the characters or creating assets that "explore" the limited world of Doom
A good portion of Doom modding might as well be a fanmade expanded universe before 2016 introduced its own lore and Eternal made the Slayer (a character already packing influuences from fans to begin with) the same character as the original marine (Literally using the name "Doomguy" and quoting memes in cutscenes)
Marathon doesn't have that versatility besides maybe how some official art has different iterations of the protagonist and maybe how abstract the levels look but that's about it

>>9495154
>>9495163
>>9495172
>>9495250
It's bait. Don't bother replying to him.

>>9495117
It is. It was good for it's time, but people expect it be something more because of all the wad autists.

>>9495367
I actually think Doom I holds up pretty well and still captures that arcade feel.
II on the other hand, aged like shit with the horrible level design.

>>9495117
>get key open door
>walk along thing to find area
Good gameplay base, but could be done better.
>not even actually fully 3d
Wrong.
>Is it overrated?
Yes. While it should be celebrated for popularizing the genre and showing what can be done, it became dated very fast. Still better than quite a few cashgrab clones from the time and most modern trash.

>>9495262
Elaborate. Like, why UW exactly and not, let's say, Wizardry 4.

/v/-tier thread sage

Grug like shootan demons, Grug no like mobie shooters.

>>9495127
1. It's actually closer to 2 years before Doom. Underworld came out in March 1992, Doom came out in December 1993. It actually came out before Wolfenstein 3D, and it legit beats the piss out of Wolf in almost every way.
2. Doom actually does have some advantages over Underworld (and the rest of the early Looking Glass games.) Sure it's not full 3D where you can look up and down but Doom has full-screen resolution, it runs faster at 35fps and, most importantly, has non-orthogonal walls. In Ultima Underworld, and Looking Glass's follow-ups System Shock and Terra Nova, the map is still locked to a grid. Yeah, it supports diagonal walls but they're always bound to grid positions. Doom has no grid limitations and levels sprawl out in all kinds of weird shapes.

>>9495127
That's also a good game.
What can I only like one of them?

>>9495127
It's also a completely different genre of games, so out of the gate the comparison is absolutely retarded, akin comparing a Grand Theft Auto to racing sports games because there's cars, and then judging it on that metric. Ultima Underworld is also not all that well optimized, it ran slowly on machines of the day (even with a small viewport with a big interface around it), while Doom would run quite fast on a 486, or on a 386 if you played in Low Detail Mode and shrunk the screen a couple of times.

I'll never understand why some people insist on making the comparison. You don't judge a city bus by the metric of well it would do on a race track.

>>9495148
I'll take the bait and state that Pathways Into Darkness is just a step above Wolfenstein 3D in terms of technology, but below even Rise Of The Triad. I haven't actually played this game myself, I'll admit, but everything about its tech makes it come across as pretty typical for the pre-Doom era of first person shooters.
Aesthetics are subjective of course, but I'm personally not that fond of the more cartoony style.

>>9495160
Those people were retarded, because the less demanding technology meant they could make the world of the game more detailed and lived in. Quake was far more technologically advanced, but the environments were comparably empty and lifeless (though this works very well with the game's aesthetic and style).

>>9495227
Good thing that piracy is as simple as downloading a couple of small and easily available .wad files. For what it's worth, the official ports are actually pretty good for what they are, even if piracy is better.

>>9495138
Obviously it's not perfect. Hard to find a game that is. What are we going to do? Circle jerk Tetris forever? Doom is as close to perfect at a 3D game gets from that time period. Hell, it's still better (with a few mods) than 99% of the modern games I've played. There is no other 3D game from that time period that I can boot up and enjoy MORE than the last time I played. I can't even name another game that simply gets better every time I play it.

>>9495485
>Doom is as close to perfect at a 3D game gets from that time period.
Setting 95 as a cut-off year (before moving into Duke era), RoTT, Descent, Dark Forces, Heretic, Future Shock, System Shock and Cybermage come to mind. Not that they are better in every single regard, but they are generally better games than Doom still.

>>9495148
>>9495127
Shit games

>>9495431
Doom has no grid limitations
>t never used a doom map editor

I think looking for keys is fun, but I hate the switch bullshit. Its annoying to press a switch and have no idea what it does. Crap gameplay

>>9495117
>Is it overrated?
No. It's a true GOTYAY.

>>9495160
Duke wasn't a good game. Level design isn't consistent. It's remembered because of all the movie references. There's a reason modding it isn't as popular as modding doom.

>>9495117
Doom was so good that people bought it en masse even if it ran a bit slow in most computers people had back then

>>9495642
>Duke wasn't a good game.
Wrong.
>Level design isn't consistent.
Compared to Doom, where only the shareware episode of the first game was any good thanks to Romero, it's consistent enough.
>There's a reason modding it isn't as popular as modding doom.
Yes, lack of good map editor combined with CON scripts being a bitch. That said, there are a lot of gems compared to shovelware-tier Doom output.

>>9495378
But the only good maps in 1 are on the first episode. The rest are a completely forgettable slop. Also it only has half the enemies and no ssg, one of the best guns in videogame history. I legitimately cannot fathom going back to doom 1, ever.

>doom boomers still think "always run" is the default speed

>>9495734
>doom
>always run
Zoomer, pls.

>>9495329
>t. Sega System poster

>>9495672
This is counting shareware installs primarily.

>>9495148
>>9495127
Catacomb 3D came out before both and Pathways into Darkness was inspired by Wolf3D

>>9496263
>block's you're path
Hovertank 3D, the game which was the predecessor to Wolf 3D, was inspired by Arcticfox.

>>9495117
This game aged like dog shit. The controls are awful, the enemies are slow and braindead, and the levels and puzzles are so boring. Top down shooters like The Chaos Engine and Cannon Fodder are so much more fun and hardcore.

>>9495117
I'm also tired of the doom threads anon

>>9495117
You basically hold down the attack button and strafe left and right. Enemies are bullet sponges. What's more harder difficulties just add more enemies. Given there isn't much of a strategy to overall game, it's just a waste of time.
>muh retro
Some genre's actually improved because of technology. Nobody is making 2D racing games anymore. Doom is obsolete.
>>9496438
This. Make a doom wad only board like Pokemon.

>>9496438
I wouldn't mind except they are obviously botted with recycled and one word replies, and every couple seconds too. You can't even really talk about DOOM in the DOOM threads, they get shitted up too quick with bot spam.

It's the exact same type of thread as the kpop generals on /mu/ - it's impossible to actually believe that humans are doing most of the posting.

>>9495148
that looks like garbage dude

>>9496540
It's smooth as butter and was superseded shortly after (it's just a tech demo like all ID games after all) by a real game with a real plot and real(er) 3D, Marathon. Which led to Halo and so on.

>>9496539
I like doom don't get me wrong, its just that it gets annoying

>>9496556
I wouldn't care if there was a DOOM general that had human posters. It's the bots who bump it every 19 seconds and thus shit the whole thread up, that's the issue. Same issue with kpop threads on /mu/ as I said. It's just clearly bots meant to bump a topic.

If you need to make a thread you ask this it's clear you don't understand the impact and significance of Doom.

>>9496657
It's overblown for sure.