/vr/ - Retro Games

CHALLENGE (beginner leve): Chain all the way up to the first midboss in dodonpachi. It's the best feeling when you get it. tip: you need to avoid taking that powerup or it will break your chain.

>>917450
I already did. How about you try Psikyo's best, Sengoku Blade?

>>917450
I used to be a Gunbird junkie, OP. I'm playing everyone's favorite demonbaby shmup now - Guwange.

would certainly love some help editing the wiki page gang
http://retroconsoles.wikia.com/wiki/Shmup
especially "Arcade Recommendations"

>>917587
I love that game but I can't use the shikigami well enough to do the later levels yet,
here's my guwange scroll

>>917594
I'm doing a separate chart for the very specific subgenre: vertical bullet hell, I've been working on it a bit already

I cannot get this part down, and the bit after .. and the parts after that.. this boss is evil

>>917610
>vertical bullet hell

God those types are just boring to me. I almost feel like half the enemies on screen are just mindless cannon fodder just to be there. Even if all of these enemies attack, they attack ridiculously unaccurate. The only way I can lose is really the clusterfuck of explosions and enemies on screen.

I prefer a horizontal shooter like R-Type where each enemy has the potential to actually destroy you, rather than an overload of stupid shit on screen distracting you.

>>917691
Yeah that's why they're called popcorn. Depending on the game you might want to do something other than just hold shoot and wait for them to disappear for scoring.
Pic is my favorite horizontal.

>>917695
Wow thank you sir. Gonna play it now.

>>917594
Is there anything we should know before we edit? Keep each recommended game short and sweet or go the extra mile with some extra detail?

>>917713
I wish I had folk to play it 2 player with!

>>917695
>Darius II

I am in love. I am in absolute love. More games similar?

>>917728
Want to compete in a high score meltdown?

> Gigantic Boss List is approaching!
http://darius.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Bosses_%28Series%29

>>917691
>I almost feel like half the enemies on screen are just mindless cannon fodder just to be there.
If that's the case they are often somehow involved in scoring. R-Type has a bunch of cannon fodder enemies as well.

My first try at Darius II.

>>917740
>If that's the case they are often somehow involved in scoring.

This is my personal views on what I think what scoring is. Each unit that attacks you should have a level of difficulty of destroying said unit. When you successfully do, you gain a certain amount of points to aid your scored points. You deserved it, you earned it. Plain and simple.

And what you're telling me, is that scoring should just be out there for the player to mindlessly destroy, and earned without struggle? Is that what you're saying?

>>917770
It's much more complicated than what you're saying. For a start every game can have a different scoring system.

Dodonpachi has a chain system that means you have to be constantly killing popcorns without gaps to keep the chain alive. So you need to carefully plan out routes that work and time it right to do this (as well as not getting hit).
Then games like radiant silvergun and ikaruga have a chain system based on enemy colors that requires you again to stick with a particular color and ignore or snipe past enemies of the other color.
Other games let you get extra score from grazing up against bullets, or bullet cancelling so you might hold off on killing popcorns before they've filled up the screen with as many bullets as possible.

>>917450
>Gun Bird 2

Having fun right now.

Just waiting for my action replay cart.
It should come next week thought.

>>917791
Oh, I get what you're saying. So I guess popcorns have different uses than I have imagined.

Honestly, these types of games still bore me. Because games like DoDonPachi it's really the memorization of certain routes and enemies that show up that ables you to master it if you remember it enough times to play through.

Personally, I like the basic scoring systems. The more you destroy the amount of points you gain, and the longer you survive the better.

You know of any shmups that have unpredictable enemies? That would be fun as fuck. Adapting to new A.I. changes would be challenging as fuck.

>>917691
What if some enemies come onto the screen with a shield and deflect your bullets thus you have more bullets to avoid onscreen, even if those bullets were the ones you put out so it wouldn't always be a good idea to constantly hold down the fire button?

>>917856
dude, wat?

>>917813
nice, one of the best

>general
>>>/vg/

>>917969
really? we have had a pretty active shmup community here on /vr/ for the last few weeks, it fits well here since it's a niche genre. I don't see a problem.

maybe I should have called it "shmup thread", i just called it that because the previous was too

>>917718
Just make sure that the games you list are of the highest quality. I'd like there to be as few duds as humanly possible

>>917969
4chan disccion bopard have already explained that we can have a shmup general on /vr/

lrn2 keep up douche.

Came across this a few moments ago:
https://www.youtube.com/user/Serraxor?feature=watch
Has some really great video reviews of a wide variety of classic and current shmups

much better reviewer here http://www.youtube.com/user/xoxak/videos

>>918117
Man, xoxak may not always be right but he is always [Spoiler]Go play Mars Matrix[/Spoiler]entertaining.

Necessary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9vD-wHluug

Isn't the silver sword just a normal plane flying backwards?

>>917732
The mega drive version has mostly different levels so it's like a different but similar game.

pb'd!

>>918352
Backwards aircrafts are sexy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtiss-Wright_XP-55_Ascender

>>918470
How neat. I thought they just flipped the sprite and thought it looked cool.

>>918432
You're almost to the second extra mario. Do your best!

are these good for playing? USB saturn pad. I sort of want to stop using keyboard because my shoulder hurts a little but I'm worried about input lag & if I only have one finger (thumb) on shoot then it's difficult to bomb quickly if you suddenly have to?

>>919183
If you use X/Y/Z for shoot then you should be able to press A/B/C for bomb with the same thumb.

>>919207
true! cheers

Here is the first version of the vertical bullet hell chart I made.

It got too big already (2.8 MB) so it looks like I can't add more to it, but it's not finished there is a lot more to add. disappointing!

>>919183
I never got used to the nubby xyz buttons on Sega's six button controllers.

>>919464
The point is to list a bunch of great vertical bullet hells and show representative screenshots of each one.

Games are Cave, Raizing then Psikyo. I still need to add Toaplan, Taito, Gazella, Seibu Kaihatsu, Shanghai Alice and Treasure.. (and whatever else I am missing?)

but since it's already 3MB at that size I'm not sure what to do.. I wanted to have text explaining things in it..

>>919183
Just use a fight stick.

>>919183
I am reading really bad reviews, don't think I want this.

>>919478
these are way too expensive :(

>>918470
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyushu_J7W

I'd love to try gunbird but I can't even find a .cue for the psx version on google. Fuck Saturn.

>>919671
you could just use the Mame version instead

>>919671
What's wrong with the arcade version?

>>919649
Oh baby, that's hot!

>>919671
The PS1 version of Gunbird is shit. You play it in MAME, or worst case a Saturn emulator.

What makes a good shmup guys. Wanna make one in the future and don't want to fuck up.

Ah and I just ordered my Saturn and Action Replay earlier this week. Eager to delve deeper into this genre.

How's Sexy Parodius?

>>919751
Most important is pacing. This is where Touhou fails, because it keeps interrupting the flow with cutscenes and spellcard captions. In a good shmup you're always making decisions, there's no time when you can space out and get away with it. Arcade shmups usually get this right because arcade owners won't tolerate poor pacing.

2nd most important is the scoring system. This needs to encourage players to take risks, and have enough complexity that the optimal scoring technique is difficult to figure out. Cave games usually have excellent scoring systems, which is a major reason for their popularity.

>>919751
You already fucked up with that attitude.
You gotta fuck up a couple of times before you get something good if you are working without experience. Applies to most things, and definitely making videogames (shmups or not).

If you get over that attitude I got some advice for you:
Study the shmups you like and find out why you like them. Go into detail, think about things like what makes some particular attack fun to dodge, how the enemy waves play in with your weapons/scoring system and whatever else you notice. Is the game doing something subtle with the design to manipulate you into playing in a more entertaining way?

Reading interviews with the developers could also get you some insight into how they came up with some of the things and what sort of philosophies they applied (no guarantees though). You can find a bunch of translated interviews here: http://shmuplations.com/

>>919758
And this is personal preference, but I think shmups should give you a strong feeling of power. Think the Doom 2 super-shotgun. The laser in DoDonPachi does this perfectly. It's huge and dangerous looking and burns through enemies quickly.

>>919751
You need a good amount of variety and a solid challenge. Easy shmups get boring fast since the games are mechanically already fairly simple. Otherwise just play more games. Get at least a couple of 1CCs under your belt and you should be able to tell what works and what doesn't by gut feeling alone.

>>919763
Good players aren't good designers, though good designers could be good players.

>>919751
>Good amount of challenge
>decent variety of power ups
>unique identity (seriously, the whole spaceship fighting off alien invasion thing has been done to death)
>good music

>>919770
Power-up variety is not important. I'd much rather play a shmup with 1 good weapon than 10 shitty ones. In DoDonPachi you start with all the weapons and reach maximum power quickly and then stay there for the rest of the game. The variety is in the enemies and level designs.

>>919758
>Most important is pacing.
I agree with this. Playing through a very dull first, and especially second level (excluding bosses) can be fairly frustrating since it feels like a waste of time going through them again and again. It has to keep the player engaged a few seconds into the game with just some lean time between the next waves in enemies but not a massive gap.

>>919768
Being a good player will always make you a better designer, though. You have to know the genre you're working in, and obviously a good player will have a better understanding of the game than a poor player.

>>919790
It's not the important step towards being a better designer though or we would have pro shmup and fighting players design those games.

Fairly often the people who design great shmups can't even clear the things they have designed. What really makes them good at their job is years of experience making games instead of playing them, and studying the feedback from their audience.

>>919790
>>919808
Let's take someone who is a (probably) good shmup player and a famed shmup designer, Shinobu Yagawa, as an example. Before he made Battle Garegga he already had many years of experience working on a bunch of NES games and whatever else. Before designing Battle Garegga he had already gotten to grow as a designer, and by working on many different genres no less, not just shmups.

There are great video game designers who barely if ever play video games, and even they have gotten better with experience designing rather than playing.

I think the most important advice for designing video games wouldn't be to get good at video games, but to start actively making them.

>>919824
And you think he didn't play a ton of games in the meantime? Or play his own games as he was working on them?
If you can't even complete a basic challenge, which means understanding the challenge first (unless you are beating it by accident), you're not going to be able to construct a good challenge yourself (unless, again, by accident). Making as many games as possible is important too, but to get started you need at least some understanding of the genre.

>>919808
>Fairly often the people who design great shmups can't even clear the things they have designed.
That's absurd, and I'd be very interested to see a source that would claim that.
If you can't even complete your own game then you'd be at the mercy of the people testing it because their opinion on what works and what doesn't will affect what goes in the game (at which point they might as well be credited as devs themselves, and what you said wouldn't be true). Or you'd be publishing a game you're not sure can be completed.

Hey, could one of you lend me a hand? I'm having a bit of a problem

Every single time I try and load up Star Parodier/Fantasy Star Soldier on my Turbo Grafx emulator, I get some kind of error message about my "file cabinet" not being properly set up. Do I need to format the PC Engine card?

>>919859
Dunno, but Ootake works for me.

>>919846
Some of the Cave shmups took years for anybody to clear the TLB. The whole point of TLBs is that only the most elite players will ever clear them. The devs don't need to be that good, they have slow motion/save states/etc. All the need to do is make the slackest possible TAS and check it's within theoretical unassisted human capabilities.

>>919846
Gotta look for my sources, but in the meanwhile, you can at least think about the fact that Daifukkatsu was counter-stopped almost immediately after release which prompted Cave to update the game. None of them had the skill to do that and they didn't assume it was possible but right off the bat their players showed they had something to fix.

>If you can't even complete your own game then you'd be at the mercy of the people testing it because their opinion on what works and what doesn't will affect what goes in the game (at which point they might as well be credited as devs themselves, and what you said wouldn't be true).
>at which point they might as well be credited as devs themselves, and what you said wouldn't be true
Wow you are absolutely fucking retarded

>>919912
>None of them had the skill to do that and they didn't assume it was possible but right off the bat their players showed they had something to fix.
A great example that being a better player will make you a better dev!

>>919909
Yeah, nevermind. Got it fixed

Was using Ootake, but I switched over to TurboEngine. Much less of a hassle to get Turbo CD games to run

>>919921
Even with that, Cave, not their fans who are superior at playing their games, are just about the best at designing and fine-tuning scoring based shooters.

You just don't become good at designing games by playing them. It helps, but that's all, it helps. It's not even close to the main thing you need to be doing in order to be good at designing them.

>>919846
http://shmuplations.com/mushihimesamahd/
Ikeda: There’s no one at Cave who can clear Ultra. Of course, theoretically speaking, we made it so it was possible to clear. At the time we made it the thinking was, “It won’t be fun if the difficulty gradually ramps up in a half-ass way.” It had to be so hard all you could do was laugh, like “you need to die after 5 seconds of starting” level hard.

http://shmuplations.com/cave-ikeda/

Ikeda: No, I don’t think so. The games I can 1CC are only the relatively easy ones. And in this world, there’s always someone better than you, so there’s no game I can really say I have complete confidence in. If I was forced to choose, I’d say Tatsujin. I really tried hard to memorize all the patterns in that game, but I couldn’t do it completely, and even now the stage 1 boss and the stage 3 boss make me very nervous.

I would say when you work on a well established genre you do need to keep an eye on the competition for inspiration, even if you don't necessarily need to be great or even particularly good at the games.

Ikeda here got the idea to ramp up the amount of bullets for DoDonpachi by being surprised and overwhelmed by the amount of bullets in Battle Garegga. He wanted to take it further. And thus we got bullet hell and all was right with the world.

>>919758
>Cave games usually have excellent scoring systems
Bullshit, CAVE usually makes awful scoring systems. This is exactly why I'm not much of a fan of theirs.

>>920042
>CAVE usually makes awful scoring systems

>>920042
What?! You don't like having to nmnb and chain everything up until 2-7 to score well? Why, I enjoy having a great first loop up until 1-6 every single time, only to have to bomb at the final boss pattern. You know how many times I could have looped the game, but ended up rage restarting over a premature death or bomb in 1-5 or 1-6? Dropping a chain is also a big contender in my journey for the loop, and it happens constantly on the later stages. I pretty much instinctively reach for F3 as soon as I reach the middle of 1-5, since I know I'm going to drop my chain or bomb somewhere along the line.

Chaining feels so damn good when you can actually do it, but it feels beyond shit when you can't do it.

does anyone know about rom hacking? I want to remove the music from dodonpachi - I guess if I could just find it and set it all to zero that would work but I have no idea how to edit the binary files in ddonpach.zip

Any exed exes enthusiasts here?

>>921445
It's the tilde key.

>>921474
i want to listen to my own music but still hear the popping sounds when I kill stuff.. probably stupid to go to such work..

>>921482
That should be under tab -> slider controls

Some games don't have great music so it's nice.

>>921505
thanks that's a really cool trick! seems like DDP uses the same channel for music and sfx but it'll be useful for other games

>>920282

I will admit Get Point is really fucking hard to do correctly (>Oh hey, a bee medal! >800 points x 1 chain >FFUUUUU--) but you have to admit it's well thought-out. Other CAVE games have better scoring as well, Ketsui (During the first loop at least) is a good example.

Also, be glad it's not as retarded as say, Battle Garegga.

Or any of the abominations Yagawa has made, for that matter. He literally never playtests his games, in fact. Do people actually play Pink Sweets: After Ibara in arcade mode? And WHY?!

Also, Takumi is top tier with scoring systems. And Yotsubane, but Crimzon Clover's scoring system seems to be at least somewhat inspired by Takumi's games.

What are your favorite shmup ships playstyle-wise? Mine would be either Type-A-EX from Dodonpachi (I wish Saidaioujou allowed you to play Type-A in the arrange mode...it would've worked wonders with that gauge system at least, and who wouldn't mind Shuri's banter?), or Type-III from Crimzon Clover For NESiCAxLive.

As for sidescrollers, Aryustailm from Blazing Star, though there are a lot of improvements it could potentially make.

General preferences -
- Lasers > Vulcans > Missiles
- Anti-Air > Anti-Land > Anti-Sea
- Attack Power > Movement Speed > Defensive Spread
- Front Shot > Wide Shot > Homing Shot

>>921721
>hating on medal chaining
Kill yourself scumbag.

>>921749
be nice

>>921721
>Or any of the abominations Yagawa has made, for that matter. He literally never playtests his games, in fact. Do people actually play Pink Sweets: After Ibara in arcade mode? And WHY?!

I do. And Muchi Muchi Pork has a totally awesome scoring system. Pink Sweets has an awesome system, but dunno about scoring. It's Recca x Garegga and feels so good but damn does it beat the shit out of me.

>>921749

Medal chaining is a good system (As demonstrated in Raiden Fighters) - it's the level of milking involved that really ticks me off. Watch a Battle Garegga "superplay" and you'll see what I mean.

>>922886

Hm. Maybe I should try playing those games again, I still have them sitting around somewhere.

Never really understood how scoring works, in part because superplay videos are hard to find of the arcade versions (Everyone posts the arrangemodes).

Oh yeah, I'll also mention I really liked Ibara Kuro: Black Label. But that's not entirely Yagawa's work...

>>921721
DOJ chaining is fucking tough, I'm always finding myself pressing F3 and then just resting my head on my stick. Continuing the chain past the 1-3 midboss is a really tough technique, almost teared up from how upset I was in my past few runs of the game. Perfectly chaining 1-1 and 1-2 only to mess up on the 1-3 midboss chain is so painful.

>>922951

DOJ is the worst Dodonpachi game in my mind (Besides Bee Storm, but that's not really canon...is it?). But I'm incredibly biased against the PGM.

>>919959

Yotsubane is freaking Clover-TAC, I'm sure he can 1cc Crimzon Clover.

>>922961
>Besides Bee Storm, but that's not really canon...is it?

Well according to this picture, Daioujou is "DONPACHI EPISODE 4"...

More shmupthan you can shake a stick at,including a fully-loaded version of shmupmame:

http://www.mediafire.com/?48812jiax8m1c

>>923059
Yeah sorry, the MAME screenshot feature fucked up the aspect ratio somehow.

>>923013
Oh god the aspect ratio, it hurts my eyes

>>922961
>But I'm incredibly biased against the PGM.
Why?

>Yotsubane is freaking Clover-TAC, I'm sure he can 1cc Crimzon Clover.
I don't see your point. Yotsubane didn't create Crimzon Clover by being good at shmups. It just means he could test it by himself. Which even if you are good enough is usually a terrible idéa, since you are playing from the viewpoint of already knowing everything.

>>922950
>Never really understood how scoring works, in part because superplay videos are hard to find of the arcade versions (Everyone posts the arrangemodes).
Don't. Muchi Muchi Pork has a simple enough scoring system and you should be figuring out how to max profits on your own.

Pink Sweets doesn't really have much of a scoring system other than the medaling. You just try to pick any small points everywhere you can and try to make it add up. You do this by shooting enemies with your main weapon, grazing bullets and absorbing large amounts of bullets into your front barrier. But all of this feels secondary to me. Playing Pink Sweets for a 1CC is one of the most exciting things there is, enemy formations and attacks seem obviously planned with your available tools in mind so you should end up using them in fun ways even if you don't give a shit about the score.

>>923059

PGM has a horrible aspect ratio and in most respects other than sound chip just doesn't compare to the CAVE 68000.

Yotsubane's girlfriend (I think) helped him playtest Crimzon Clover from the opposing point of view, so I'd say it's balanced.

So wait, does that mean Pink Sweets has less milking in arcade than it does in arrange? Because I've seen the arrangemode. It's...a lot of milking.

so how do i dodonpachi ?
i want to do no continues run but i always getting killed in stage 3

>>923117

That pic makes me want to cum buckets.

>>923117
Pink Sweets has swimming pools full of milk if you are serious about scoring but I'm arguing you shouldn't give a fuck about that in this case since the scoring system isn't the most brilliant part of the game.

Also, PGM has a 4:3 (or 3:4 rotated) aspect ratio like most arcade systems up to then. It's like Capcom's CPS systems in that it displays oblong rather than square pixels.

>>923162
>>923117
Pink Sweets has less incentive to keep milking anyway, since extends are not scorebased like in every other Yagawa game, which locks you out from suiciding constantly to keep rank down. You go and milk those bosses and you will make the rank skyrocket with little you can do about it.

I wish we could have a scroll and shooty through without faggot attention whores for once but sadly it seems the members of the Shmups forum need attention wherever they post.

>>923061
It didn't, the actual pixels are not square for that game (same with ketsui)

>>923129
I make a save state at the beginning of stage 3 and then practice it again and again. I've worked out some techniques that make surviving til the end a little more likely (e.g. that bit with all the green guys who throw out randomly aimed pink bullets gets a little easier once you stategically use the bigger ships to cancel their bullets). Once you get strats practice them again and again until you can execute them perfectly. also make sure you USE THE BOMBS!

>>923807
DOJ can't be displayed correctly on a standard LCD without using a scaling filter. MAME screenshot was correct if you want an accurate record of the pixels, but incorrect if you want an accurate record of the image.

Here I've scaled it correctly.

>>923839
You should do this for every stage, not only for survival, but for scoring practice as well. Just remember to do some runs every now and again to keep some consistency throughout the game.

I did loads better in this run but my score isn't that higher. Not enough to get the extra mario though.. if I just manged to get those 4 more bombs out I probably would have.

ikaruga is one of my favorite shooters and i haven't read anything to dissuade my like for it

>>924570
I think it's a fantastic one, I don't really understand the treasure hate - I think it's a reaction again the games being rated too highly from just treasures reputation but the games are still great (RSG is even better than ikaruga).

>>924582
I'd like it more if it weren't completely designed around chaining three enemies at a time. Other than that it's a good game.

The Sin and Punishment games are much better I'd say!

>>924630
On that note, can anyone help me add to this list?

* Sin and Punishment
* Panzer Dragoon
* Rez, Killer7
* ... that can't be all?

>>924645
oops forgot space harrier and starfox!

plus panorama cotton

>>924645
Rez is not like the rest of those at all, it's an actual rail shooter. And Sin and Punishment is a Cabal shooter. If you want more of those try Blood Bros., NAM-1975, and Wild Guns.

omegaboost

>>924645
Have you played Killer7?
Dude, it's one of my favourite videogames of all time but it doesn't belong anywhere near this kind of list.

>>924645
>>924650
>>924665
You might also want to add "Space Fantasy Zone", it's an unreleased game for the CD Rom2/Turbo CD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjhpj6QYP1Y

>>924665
panorama cotton had fucking insane graphics.

>>925579
It runs at 20fps, it's unplayable.

do you guys only like shmups because it's anime?

>>925657
???

>>925665
most games have anime graphics...

>>925669
no.

>>925657
>>925669
..........what does that have anything?

>>925657
I like shmups because dodging dots and blowing stuff up and getting really mad because of dropped chains is fun, not because of an anime style. I don't even notice the style most of the time, always too busy worrying about how I'm supposed to be practicing the games to improve my overall skill.

Dammit, I want to be good at a shmup. I can 1cc most of the lowmid-level games, DoDonPachi, Ketsui, DOJ, Batrider(Normal), and Touhou(Hard), but anything higher than that and I get destroyed. Besides that, playing a game without using the practice mode also destroys me. Maybe progress is just really slow without practice mode, but it feels like I make none at all.

>>925672
Actually yes, when most games means shmups. People don't think about it a lot but machine and creature designs in the majority of shmups draw heavy influences from popular Japanese cartoons and comics, so the designs end up looking quite "anime". There are exceptions to this, but they are more the exception than the rule.

>>925657
I only like shmups if they are beautiful. Most shmups are.

>>925745
but everyone that enjoys the genre are just a bunch of weeb retards that love anime. makes me wonder that they got into this old and busted genre just because of the anime characters.

>>925780
You're probably thinking of the people who are strictly Touhou fans, those who don't even care about STGs. There are plenty of people who play these games who aren't complete idiots, but they're overshadowed by the secondaries who can't even clear a CAVE game on novice difficulty.

I believe there was a shitstorm on shmupsforum about the ship screaming way before SDOJ was even released in arcades, luckily they changed it to only scream when you're on the last life.

>>925780
Anime only become integral when the genre shifted to bullet hell and to the PC market.

And yes, I do like anime, but most of it these days is so completely generic and unoriginal

>>917450
I dont have to do jack shit mate

>>925780
Anime only became an intergral part of the genre when it switched over to "bullet hell" and the home computer market

>old and busted genre
Kid, I think you need to leave

>>925805
>Kid, I think you need to leave
Not just this thread, but this whole board.

>Anime only became an intergral part of the genre when it switched over to "bullet hell" and the home computer market
Nah man, it's always been there. You were just too ignorant to recognize it as anime.

>>925805
>>925827
For example, did you think those mechs and spaceships in all those PC-Engine shmups could have been inspired by anything other than the local pop culture of the country they came from?

It's all anime you can't escape iiiiit

>>923029
thx

Is there a guide for shmupmame? I don't know what I'm doing.

>>925850
It's the same as normal mame only with better latency and more graphics glitches.

>>925856
That's lovely but I don't have any experience with mame at all.

>>925856
It's the same as normal MAME except completely broken, you mean. It sacrifices all of the fixes of later versions of MAME, and makes the games look like broken shit, all to eliminate input latency that already exists on the real hardware.

Keep the fuck away from shmupmame.

>>925896
Just concurring with this.

>>925885
>>925850
Guide to using MAME

step 1:
All games need to be in the designated rom folder (you can change this in options). Do NOT change their filenames or MAME won't recognize them.

step 2:
Press F5 to refresh MAME's available games list. This may take a few minutes because it needs to check a couple of thousand roms.

step 3:
Check in the available games category. You should be able to run any games in here so long as the icon isn't red.

Troubleshooting:
I downloaded some game and it can't run it. Says files are missing.

Solutions:
a.The most common newbie mistake is that you only have the clone rom. You need the parent to run the clone. The parent is typically Europe or World version of whatever game it is. So in order to run DoDonpachi (Japan), you need to have the rom for DoDonpachi (US) as well.

You can recognize the parents on rom sites by the filesize being larger, and some sites, like planetemu, have links from clones leading to their parents.

b. If it's not the above then in all likelihood you have an incompatible version of the rom. Best bet is usually to have the latest MAME and get the roms from some place that regularly has the latest romset .

>>925946
Press tab while running a game to bring up a menu for ingame settings and controls.

F3 is quick reset and Insert fast forwards (good for speeding past loading screens).

You can save replays of your games as tiny input files by rightclicking the game and choosing to record. You can playback input files from the File menu in the top toolbar.
Also, if you hard reset your game with shift+F3, the current input file you were making will be overwritten with a new one from scratch.

Further questions?

>>925827
>>925834
I thought he was speaking about "anime" in terms of lolis, not specifically anime itself

>>925896
Specific breakage other than graphical glitches?

Actually, now that I think about it, shmupmame did some crazy thing where they backported the changes to some ancient version of mame for compatibility with recordings or something. I'm still using a version before they did that.

And it's not like it's hard to apply the changes to a modern mame.

>>926196
I'd be interested to know that as well. I haven't seen anything that looks messed up but I might just not know what things are supposed to look like.

The newest version is modern enough to have sound in dogyuun and batsugun so give it a try!

>>925794
>You're probably thinking of the people who are strictly Touhou fans, those who don't even care about STGs. There are plenty of people who play these games who aren't complete idiots, but they're overshadowed by the secondaries who can't even clear a CAVE game on novice difficulty.
could you name one cave game that has "novice" difficulty mode?

>>926637
Many of the 360 ports have Novice modes which are so easy you'll 2-loop to the TLB while being half asleep.

>>926183
Of course, but its dumb and narrowminded to refer to use of cartoon jailbait as anime.

Sort of related, I can kind of understand complaints about lolis and other "moe" characters which are everywhere in Shmups these days, but I don't agree with it.
I both accept it as a necessity to make money go around and in a lot of tasteful cases appreciate it as an aesthetic.

I consider Espgaluda II, Mushihimesama Futari and Deathsmiles to have overall excellent artwork in and out of game.

>>926637
Futari, DFK, SDOJ, DoDonPachi(IB 360 port when played with kinect). There's a pretty hilarious C-S kinect replay up on nicovideo somewhere, you just see him zipping all over the screen and ramming bullets.

Just listing them off from the ones that I own and know have novice. I know that iOS DOJ has four difficulty modes, with the highest one being the regular arcade standard. Not sure how much easier the easiest difficulty is. I don't count the arcade releases with difficulty dipswitches, that hardly changes enough to be noticeable.

I really want to try out darius 2 with 3 screens.

so happy about finally working out this chain! took me a long time to design it, and it's very difficult to execute...

Out of curiosity, how does everyone feel about the Gradius, R-Type, and Darius ports to the Turbo-Grafx-16/PC-Engine?

>>929224
They are from a time when a console version would either be inferior or a completely new game (like Bionic Commando), and none of them are the latter, so I'd say indifferent.

Used to play R-Type for PC-Engine but then I learned how to MAME.

Any good 4 player shmups either on PC or I can emulate.

>>929641
Are you looking specifically for shmups or can we branch into related genres?

I've played neither but apparently Jamestown and Giga Wing 2 support 4 players.

>>929695
What kind of related genres?

>>929224

Gradius and R-Type are decent ports, but both Darius games suffer greatly since the level design really was built with the 3 screens in mind, so being limited to 1 screen made them look like every other boring, generic PCE shooter without the long range sniping element.

How should I go about practicing if I want to be able to competently 1cc a lot of games in a shorter timeframe? I really enjoy scoring, but I'd like to be able to 1cc as well as score at the same time. I've been working on DDP for a bit now, but it doesn't feel like my skill is transferring over as much as it should be. For instance, I'll blindrun a new STG and die on Stage 1 and 2 a quite few times before I even get the hang of it.

>>929758
Like top-down run'n guns.

It falls one player short but I like Gain Ground.

>>929987
>How should I go about practicing if I want to be able to competently 1cc a lot of games in a shorter timeframe?
You are not going to 1CC a lot of games in a short timeframe unless their difficulty is way lower than your current skill. You just have to have patience.

>I've been working on DDP for a bit now, but it doesn't feel like my skill is transferring over as much as it should be. For instance, I'll blindrun a new STG and die on Stage 1 and 2 a quite few times before I even get the hang of it.
That's nothing unusual, since not every shmup uses the exact same skillset, and there is a large variety of difficulty curves. In most Cave titles I can after a couple of credits reach the end of Stage 3 or mid of Stage 4. I started Akai Katana today and have quite some trouble passing Stage 2.

my arm is hurting too much :(

I bought a pad in the hope that would stop it but it's still bad

fuck. i cant even play the games i want.

>>929987
Well, use save states for practice. If there are certain areas that give you trouble, make save states for them. If you can clear each little area a few times in a row without dying, I'd say you're ready to try a real run.

Also, try doing a run where you don't use any bombs and note where you died. On your next run, use a bomb at each place you were killed, even if you think it isn't especially hard. DDP gives tons of bombs, so eventually if you use all your bombs in the trouble spots you should be able to clear it.

K.mil Garegga clears are terrifying

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_UTj1Q-2kM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bboqgT6Q2vQ

The only shmup Ive 1cc'ed is outzone.
I can get to the 3rd stage in just about any shmup.
I can get to the 5th stage of gigawing on a good run

How good am I?

>>931163
play more outzone then
being good at multiple shmups isn't worth much, being great at one is

So I just wanted to say, if you're TATEr you'll be glad to hear that I tried Pink Sweets and Muchi Muchi pork again, and you know what? I love it.

Thinking about it a bit, the bombing system is kind of the next step up from Bakraid, and furthermore it completely eliminates the need for a B-button. It's not stupid, it's genius.

Muchi Muchi Pork is a little harder to get used to, in part because limited usage of Lard is a bit difficult to wrap my head around. I guess I should treat it more like Cyvern's Banish or something, but I was terrible with that, too.

I recently learned that you can unlock Harahara and Manpuku in special ways, and I'm going to try that soon enough...you know, because the more difficult it is, the more fun it is (Barring fake difficulty, but fortunately Yagawa can at least avoid that roadblock).

Also, have some STRONG VULCAN.

I'm watching a great superplay http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r59Yhk9Z-14

>>932707
>Thinking about it a bit, the bombing system is kind of the next step up from Bakraid, and furthermore it completely eliminates the need for a B-button. It's not stupid, it's genius.
Well, it still uses the B-button for Garegga style Option controls. And then there's the matter of changing speed which you do with A+B together. Still, they've managed to squeeze in a lot of stuff on a mere two buttons and I always appreciate stuff like that.

>>933650
Oh derp, just realized you meant dedicated Bomb-button, not the actual second button.

>>932707
>I recently learned that you can unlock Harahara and Manpuku in special ways

If you're playing on the 360 port you don't need to unlock them. Just turn them on in the game settings menu.

>>933650

You can change speed with A+B? Damn, I didn't even know that!

Mind doing a translation of the controls introduction (Or link one, either way)?

are you playing pink sweets in mame? does it emulate slowdown correctly?

>>933723
A - You know what A does.
B - Tap B to toggle option formations. Hold B to fire your options (yes, this means you can shoot while the barrier protects you). Unlike normal shots, hits from options yield no points.

A+B - You know this. Also resets barrier without releasing a bomb (you may want to do this sometimes).

There are extends by the way, but as mentioned earlier not extend based. There is a tally of enemies killed with your A shot. Once it reaches a certain number the next enemy drops a 1up. Each kill with your bomb removes one from the tally of enemies though, so every time you shoot an enemy you get closer to an extend. Every time you bomb enemies you get further from an extend.

Other secret-ish thing worth mentioning, if you miss a couple of power-ups in a row, the next one that appears will be animated faster (and I think have a special glow). This is a max-power up, which is much nicer on rank build up than picking up several power ups to reach max.

>>933993
>extend based
Meant to say score based

I WISH I was good at these.

I tried one of those Touhou games yesterday. Number 6, I think. Managed to get to Stage 5 on Normal with 3 lives before I bit the dust.

Also tried the original Gradius, but I get to the part in the first level with the volcano spewing random-ass rocks everywhere and just... die.

>>934827
play it again and again and again and you'll get good that way

>>934827
Play Gradius III arcade until you're good at Gradius.

I also wish I was good at shmups. I can usually make it to the last stage in any given shmup, but then it all goes downhill from there. Dying on Stage 1 2 and 3, messing up routes on the earlier stages and getting walled, that sort of stupid stuff. My first run after a lot of stage practicing is always the best run, but it doesn't mean shit because I've only got one 1cc under my belt.

>>934975
the hardest game!

>>934827
>I tried one of those Touhou games yesterday. Number 6, I think. Managed to get to Stage 5 on Normal with 3 lives before I bit the dust.

that's not bad if you did it without using continues.

bullet hell shooters require memorization.you have to practice the stages.

if you don't know what you're doing then you ain't winning.

>>934985
Exactly why I recommended it.

>>935064
Ketsui requires such an ungodly amount of memorization to even survive through the later levels. I find myself getting walled a lot because I mess up my route, something that hardly happens to me in any of the other CAVE shooters.

>>934975
>Play Gradius III arcade until you're good at Gradius.

that is the sickest joke i've ever heard

also

>>934827

try to look for safe spots for the volcano part.

>>934827
For the volcano, get laser, missile and as many options as you can, then position yourself as far left as possible with the gun of your ship shooting volcano rocks right at the mouth of the volcano, and your options above you. Keep shooting and your missiles and lasers should protect you from any rocks.

Around the part when you get to the easter island statues, you'll probably want to switch from laser to double and stick with it for the rest of the game. It's pretty much mandatory for the final stage, and really useful on stage 4. Just remember that it is useless without a good amount of options.

>>935561
There's also another safe spot in the top left corner, just keep your options under you and shoot constantly with the laser and missiles.

>>935561
Original Gradius you can safely run laser for the whole game. Between the ability to sweep it to hit guys behind cover and the broken as hell hitboxes (it can kill enemies who are behind you!) it's nearly as good as double for clearing out hard to reach enemies, and with no drawbacks.

>>935576
I like this safe spot better though because you destroy a huge amount of rocks fast and gives you a pointlessly large score early. I just can't help myself.

Four hours of playing DDP later, not one 2-4, 2-5, or 2-6 no bomb completed.

Yeah, that was pretty painful. At least I have 2-1, 2-2, and some of 2-3 figured out. I still get messed pretty badly by the 2-3 boss, but whatever.

>>919464
>no Ibara

>>924645
Galaxy Force
Panorama Cotton

>>936056
that's too new! requires SH3 so emulation isn't accurate etc.

MAME is being a dick about save state keys, and ideas how to fix?

when i press saveor load state it has like 50% chance of acting like i pressed it twice in a row, so often i have to press it and the game pauses for an instant then resumes then i have to press it again before i can choose the state number

you will never grow up in the arcades

>>936883
>emulation

>>937490
Forgot my image.

>>936883
How the hell do we not have accurate SuperH emulation by now?

>>937512
It's ok, but not perfect.

>>937490
well one the point of the chart is that you can play them correctly in MAME.. I would very much like this game but region locked out of my PS2. Sucks.

>>937512
it's not something I know about

>>937567
You should not get the PS2 version anyway, it lacks the slowdown and makes the game almost impossible. But if you really want to play it on your PS2, softmodding is really easy to do.

>>937567
>I would very much like this game but region locked out of my PS2. Sucks.
EurAsia's store has knockoff PS2 mods for $12. You'll have to wait for shipping from Thailand, though. I just ordered a few. Sucks that PSX games don't work through HDLoader, or I would have just gone that route.

>>919751

For great reviews and sales, make an artsy euroshmup.

To actually make a great shmup, copy what the Japanese have been doing.

>>919751
>What makes a good shmup?
Fast paced gameplay and fun scoring system.
Scoring system shouldn't be overly complex but still be challenging and shit. But if you can't come up with something new and fun just go with chaining or medalling.
Also no health bars, it's really hard to make a shmup with a health bar fun to play, it usually take all the challenge away.

Make every bullet patter dodgeable, this is one of the shitty design choices some euroshmups/shmups with healthbars have.

to be a good shmup it has to have fun patterns to dodge, touhou has some of the most fun ones

Any STGs with tracks similar to Rez, Samidare or RefRain? .Something with a really heavy beat
Also, favorite STG OST, everyone?
Apart from the aforementioned I'm also rather fond of Strania, DOJ and IN, myself.

>>941398
DoDonPachi! The 90's rock music never fails to amuse me during grind sessions.

>>941398
the gradius games

all of them

>>941398
>favorite STG OST

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18LFuNmlfUQ

>>941398
Everything composed by Kou Hayashi and Daisuke Nagata. I really hope they find video game work again after MileStone's death.

>>941398
Darius games have always had an amazing OST, especially the later game like Darius Gaiden, G-Darius and Darius Burst.

>>942170
Not so sure about Burst yet since Ogura didn't compose it, but maybe I'd find out if Taito would port it to a real system already.

>>942186
Burst OST is amazing, especially the arcade version. It's probably my favorite of them all

Also Eschatos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNvMT4WjaOo

So who make better games? Yagawa or Ikeda?
Yagawa

>>942356
Assuming Ikeda is responsible for the majority of CAVE's diarrhea, Yagawa easily.

yagawa is very famous for rank but I dont know about ikeda

>>943482
Ikeda is the Dodonpachi guy

>>919751

In my opinion:

1. Control scheme. It's hard to make a bad control scheme, but when you make a good control scheme it makes a shmup just that much better. See Dodonpachi Blissful Death, Crimzon Clover, and Zero Gunner 2.
2. Scoring system. It's not fun to see people milk on superplays of a game, so it's a good idea to make the scoring system yield logical playstyles. See Giga Wing and Crimzon Clover.
3. Graphics. You may not like it, but good graphics sell. See Ikaruga and Raiden II - both games were renowned for amazing graphics and sold really well, too.
4. Music. Some shmups have gotten away with bad music, but none have gotten away with awful music, and almost every shmup that people really like has at least had decent music. See Raiden II, and Thunder Cross II.
5. Design. Games with cool enemy design tend to give me good vibes, since it means the developers really tried when they thought about the game. See 19XX: The War Against Destiny and Dogyuun!!.

I should also mention that an overarching feature of many shmups -I- like at least (Though this isn't really too well rewarded in the long term it seems) is when people just...try really hard when they make a shmup. I don't know how to describe it, but it's kind of like what happens when you compare say, DonPachi to Dodonpachi. They're on the same hardware, and weren't developed too far apart - but the production standards of one just far surpass that of the other.

>>942356

Playing Yagawa's games are an exercise in stupid. The non-Yagawa Raizing games are the best ones - the Sorcer Striker games, Soukyogurentai...

Ikeda gets points for a) trying new things, and b) making sure the games are fun to play vanilla.

>>944263
DonPachi really makes me angry with those enemies that come in from the bottom of the screen. I've only played the game a few times because of that. Ass ships are real jerks.

>>944362
>HURR, HOW DARE THEY DESIGN LEVELS THAT PUNISH YOU FOR HUGGING THE BOTTOM OF THE SCREEN LIKE AN IDIOT
>I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO MOVE FORWARD TO AVOID THINGS IN A GAME THAT'S ENTIRELY ABOUT AVOIDING THINGS, THAT'S JUST TOO MUCH EFFORT

Typical Cave fan.

can anyone rec me some reasonably cheap vrrrrr shmups similar to r-type 3?

>>944362
You only have to play the game once to know that they are there.

After that, every time you die to them is on you.

>>944380
>>944438
I've never even died to them, I didn't think that was even possible. Most good players will actually stay above the bottom of the screen at all times unlike most retarded peons. :V

>>944423
Reasonably cheap?

If you have a Saturn, Darius Gaiden is somewhat similar, and a fantastic shmup.

If you have a PS2, you can grab Taito Legends 2 which has:

-Metal Black (visually similar techno-organic monstrosities)
-aforementioned Darius Gaiden
-G-Darius

-Thunder Force V on the PS1
-R-Type Delta on the PS1 (this is usually between $30-40)
-Einhander on the PS1 (usually between $40-60)

Genesis there's a bunch of stuff but I am less familiar with the library, though Virtual Console would probably be a good place to start looking. PS2 is good for its quantity though.

>>944263
I actually think that relation between Donpachi and DoDonpachi is pretty useful to keep in mind if one wants to make good shmups (or good videogames, or good anything).

DoDonpachi could not be as good as it is if Cave didn't both
a) have a solid foundation to build on from creating Donpachi before it and
b) find inspiration in Battle Garegga

Inspiration helps find direction, while a solid foundation earned from experience makes it possible to put this inspiration into something worthwile. Gotta experiment and create and try different things out.

The guy asking for advice should probably get Dezaemon and see what he can do there. Make a bunch of shitty shooters while gradually learning what mistakes he is making and how to fix them.

Could anybody recommend me a shmup where I don't need to shoot or dodge anything? Thanks in advance.

>>946080
This is a bait.

>>946087
Yes, but not for rage.

>>946087
>>946097
This thread is pretty inactive so I figured it could be amusing to bring up hilariously bad (or just very strange) shoot'em ups with those attributes. I'm sure there must at least be one with the amount of broken systems out there.

I was going to name Ikaruga but then I remembered, bodies and walls.

>>946080
DoDonPachi Dai Ou Jou(PS2)

There is a no-bullets mode. The only thing you need to dodge is the ships when they decide to kamikaze you.

>>946115
The no bullets mode should replace the bullets with popcorn enemies, so every enemy shoots an unending barrage of popcorn. I mean sure, it would still be easy but it would be pretty darn crunchy.

>>946080
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsJJGxXDO9M

>>946124
I think it would be even better if the popcorn enemies didn't shoot, but then if you kill them, they explode into random popcorn bullets and patterns. If you kill too many, you get to fight dual Hibachi at the end of the stage, but all of her bullets are instead replaced with the spinny ships from 1-3 and 2-3. They still shoot at you.

I think it could definitely have a Ketsui feeling to it. Some of the bosses shoot out parts which then shoot out bullets at you, my favorite being the disco ball that shoots at you on the 1-4 boss. Hell, even the 1-3 boss of DOJ shoots cheese graters at you.

>>946129
Oh god, that is so PERFECT. I get why Karous is ranked 0 on that shmup difficulty chart now.

Oh gosh, I'm so caught up with learning how to chain that I'm not even learning how to survive. I've spent so much time playing 1-1 to 1-4 that I don't even know what to do with 1-5 and 1-6, let alone anything in the loop.

>>946129
should I just quickly burn this and 1cc it so I can say i've beaten a shmup?

How does Progear's scoring system even work?

>>946651
Catch enemy bullets in the explosion when you kill enemies with regular shot to cancel them into rings. The more bullets you cancel at once the better value ring you get.
Catch enemy bullets in the explosion when you kill enemies with lock shot to cancel them into gems. Bullets cancelled like this can cancel other bullets, so you can set off big chain reactions. The value of gem depends on what ring level you're at from killing enemies with shot. Cancelling bullets like this will reset your ring level.

Basically it's just cancel bullets with shot then cancel bullets with lock shot. Real simple. Well, simple to explain.

>>946974
Oh yeah, and gems are where the big points come from. I didn't really make that clear.

Just got this(Saturn version, of course). Is there anyway to turn off the commentary? Otherwise loving it so far. Navigating the menus is a bitch, though.

>>947768
Yeah, there should be an oshaberi option you can turn off. It's on the same screen as the one where you set your controls. Or at least it is in the playstation version.

>>947825
Found it. I'm very the commentary is great, but I don't understand a lick of Japanese. Also, WTF that Twinbee titty boss.

After playing Sexy Parodius, this seems like a step back, but I feel like Jikkyou has more options. Not sure which one I like more.

>>942186
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Zsm3VjuHkk

>>947862
Well, it is quite literally a step back what with being the previous game in the series.

I forgot how gangster this game is.

also hard.

>>946974
Thanks. A store nearby has a Progear (J) cab, I want to play for score but keeping a stream of diamonds is really difficult.

>Nintendo of America/Europe game
>Gore
That's weird. Putting aside that it's one of the best NES shmups.

>>946173
If you're not playing Karous for score, you're simply doing it wrong. That's where the challenge comes from.

Just got my first 1cc or 1sissy I really didn't score that much and used rank 1 when it was possible. Next game I'll do is Dodonpachi.

>>950181
>1sissy
Don't demean yourself by using that. A 1CC is a 1CC regardless of if you went for the high score.

>>950206
Well I did use the 1 rank for some levels.

>>950229
I think that's kind of the equivalent of 1-looping a shmup or not meeting the TLB requirements. Still a 1CC, but incomplete.

>>950181
Congratulations. I still need to 1cc DDP, my time with the game consists me grinding the stages and trying to learn chains, a truly soul crushing experience. I came close to 1ccing it a few months ago, on my very first credit with C-S. For some reason or another, I decided to suicide away some lives on 1-6 after a stupid death. The boss only had about 25% life left and I had 5 bombs in stock.

It really amazed me how much different C-S was from A-L, it was like an entirely different game.

I know this isn't quite on topic but does anybody know if there is a free/web based bullet hell/shmup to play and get started, I feel like giving one of these games a go but I'm lazy and don't want to mess with emulators right now

>>951393
I've gotten to 1-5 so far with A-L, first I started to play with C-L but I really dont like the slower ships that have "spray shot". I like straight shots more, chaining is harder with the A shit though.

>>951405
You should try Blue Wish Resurrection, it's free and it's considered as one of the easier ones to 1cc since it has pretty slow enemy bullets. It's a great game to start with.
You can download it here:
http://www.sk8tokyo.com/shmup/software/BWR_PLUS1.11.exe

Also try Cho Ren Sha 68k
It's a little bit harder, has lesser bullets but they are faster.
http://www.sk8tokyo.com/shmup/software/Cho_Ren_Sha_68k.rar

>>917791

I miss this kind of character design.

>>951405
If you don't mind downloading stuff...

rRootage
Blue Wish Resurrection+
Eden's Aegis
GwangeDash, or Guwange-Ruga-Daioujou-XII-Kizuna-Down, as it's officially called.
Sdmkun, literally a dot dodging simulator

Most of these are considered bullet hell. I like to play BWR+ with wait off, it's a pretty easy game regardless, but with wait off and accel off, it's pretty scary.

>>951424

Thanks, appreciate it

>>951424
>A shit
A ship that is.

>>951405
Cho Ren Sha 68K (the best of the best)
Vacant Ark
Genetos
Everything by Kenta Cho
Galshell
Psyche Metal: The Bleeding
Go Beryllium!

>>951436
I meant accel on and wait off here. It makes the game feel a lot harder than usual, or maybe I just suck.

>>951424
virus detected

>>951453
>>951436
>>951424

This should keep me busy, thanks again guys

>>951476
kop kek

How do I get good at these games?
I downloaded loads of these for MAME but I can barely manage to complete even the first 3 stages in donpachi without continuing and that is supposed to be baby level shooter.

>>951481
practice them a lot

>>951487
What game is good for practice?
Or is it more about pattern memorization?

>>951481
Donpachi is harder than Dodonpachi in my opinion. Try Espgaluda or Deathsmiles (you'll need Mame slowpoke edition for this), they're probably the "easiest" ones from Cave. Also Battle Bakraid normal course is not too bad.

The 3rd stage is usually the one where's the difficulty spikes in shmups.

>>951492
> What game is good for practice?
I don't know what you mean, just pick one game and practice it
> Or is it more about pattern memorization?
when you practice it over and over again you'll have it memorized automatically

>>951481
Use all of your bombs
Analyze your replays to see why you died
Practice hard stuff with save states/stage select
Watch other people play

Practice mode will only help you with execution, nervousness will come when you're playing runs, so be aware of that. The good thing about DonPachi is that it's fairly basic, you can also use the time in between stages to take a drink of water or whatever and prepare yourself for the next stage. I haven't played the game in awhile, but I believe that your bombs also get restocked differently at the end of the stage depending on which region of the game it is.

>>951481
Espgaluda is one of the easiest of the Cave shmups, especially once you realize that manual bombing is much better than relying on the auto-bomb. The only really difficult part is the final boss. The scoring system is more interesting than pure chaining too.

>>951515
?

>>917450

Have any of you played Rayxanber?
The first two are shit but the third one is fantastic.
Even then, the first two have some pretty neat levels

>>951509
>Analyze your replays to see why you died
Jesus fuck the tourneyfaggotry in this post.

>>951768
But it's helpful, really.

New to shmups. Which console has the best ones?

>>951832
the arcades have them, so play them with MAME

>>951832
Sega Saturn, but I would just recommend downloading mame and emulating the arcade versions.

>>951832
See for yourself
http://retroconsoles.wikia.com/wiki/Shmup

>>951832
Arcades. If you NEED a console, go for SNES.

>>952014
I was going to post this, the SNES is a great starting point with easy but classic shmups.

PC Engine is also a good starting place for the same reasons.

>>952014
>>952019
Recommending SNES instead of Mega Drive for shmups? What?

>>952318
I just think that SNES shmups are good for easing people into the genre. Like Konami's entries, R-Type 3, Super E.D.F, Super Aleste, Macross

I'm only interested in Gunbird for her...

>>952318
>>952357
Yeah, he is kind of right. Most of the Shmups on the Genesis are for people in Intermediate or Advanced levels. Same with The PC-Engine/Turbo Grafx-16

>>953038
Well you shouldn't be getting into things by just picking the easiest stuff you could find or you might end up boring yourself before getting to something genuinely entertaining.

I've never been fond of most SNES shmups. Kind of a mediocre library of them, with some nice exceptions. Counting run'n guns Pocky & Rocky is the best thing by the way.

>>953219
Well you know, given the time period and what was going on at the time, you really can't expect all that much

>>953225
Yes. They all ran for the PCE and MD because those hardwares were better suited to bring the arcade action into the home. SNES was all color, no blast processing.

>>953252
Not sure if serious, but the SNES had the potential to be a lot of great things, especially a Shmup powerhouse

>>953219
You don't really need much of a big library when there are awesome titles like Axelay, R-Type III (aka best shmup ever) and Parodius.

>>953264
Half facetious. The Mega Drive did better things regarding speed compared to amount of objects on screen. What it lacked in palette it made up for in action. Potential is meaningless if nobody figured out how to use it.

>>953259
R-Type III is cool, still prefer II, your weapon systems are irrelevent. I want my Giger shmup to look as Giger as possible.

I've only ever played the first level of Axelay, but that first level leaves such a terrible impression I haven't cared to go further. The graphical effect looks dumb, the weapons and motion feel terrible and the level is just so boring I'm about to turn the game off before even seeing the boss.

I won't say Axelay is terrible because I only know that first level, but damn, you can't start a shmup with a terrible first level! That is the level you'll see most often!

does anyone know where i can get shmup backgrounds like this? especially without the weird bars

>>953038
>Most of the Shmups on the Genesis are for people in Intermediate or Advanced levels.
This is complete bullshit. The Genesis has just as many fairly casual shooters if not more than the SNES.

>>953219
Pocky and Rocky is an arena shooter you dipshit.

I found small ones for mushi too but I really want 100%size

http://www.world-of-arcades.net/Cave/Mushihimesama/Artwork.htm

>>953423
be nice

It's like I'm in /v/

>>953432
LEL epic!!!! xDD

>>953429
Clueless namefag attention whores need to be kept in check. I want these fags to stop ruining my shmup threads.

>>953435
But anon, you're the one shitting up this thread.

>>953435
you're the one ruining the thread
nothing anyone does is going to stop these idiots using names as if this site is a forum
the mods don't care, all we can do is ignore it
even mentioning it is just making it worse
complaining about other boards is shitposting

I don't know, most of the snes shooters weren't optimized that well, they usually have horrible slowdown. And it's not intentional.

Fuck the console wars, post your tate setups.

>>953449

>>953423
According to what?
"Arena Shooters" as I know them typically take place in an arena-ish environment (Smash TV, Robotron, Alien Syndrome) rather than linear scrolling levels. Games like Pocky & Rocky, Mercs or Shock Troopers have always been Run 'n Gun. Only a few things have universal genre names.

>>953435
Why do you feel so threatened anon?

>>953443
>nothing anyone does is going to stop these idiots using names as if this site is a forum
The whole point of not needing a name is that it is optional, not mandatory, and nobody treats this like a forum.

That's incredibly rude you know considering many of the name/tripfags have contributed to all the nice things in these threads since way back (myself EXCLUDED).
Just Yui manages to often make these threads more pleasing by generally being silly and by doing contextually relevant and amusing photoshop manips.

Myself, I just like having a general idéa when I'm having a discussion with one or two different people so the more namefags the better for me.

>>953449

>>953528
>>953423
Aren't Arena Shooters like Quake and such?

>>953528
stop using name
go back to whatever forum you came from

>>953536
Stop shitposting on 4chan. Go back to whatever forum you came from

>>953532
Aren't those MOBA? Multiplayer Online Battle Arena?

>>953528
you're an asshole, fuck off

>>953541
Whoever thought it was a good idea to come up with entire subgenre names for every single tiny difference in gameplay should be shot.

>>953530
MMP is a great choice. Probably my favorite game. What's your high score?

>>953446
Gradius III on the SNES is especially guilty for this. This port makes me feel extremely tired at night, which is the exact opposite of Gradius III Arcade, the SNES port is just so much easier and more relaxing.

>>953656
Roughly a shitty 55 mil. I like it, and I think it probably has the best scoring system of any Yagawa game, but I still like Garegga more.

>>953557
I agree. A whole load of agreed genre names are already confusing and dumb enough as it is.

Two genre naming pet peeves of mine:
Beat'em up and Fighting
Puzzle being essentially the etc. genre

>>953864
Gradius III is one of few sort of straight ports I enjoy, though not more than the Arcade game. I just enjoy it as an occasional alternative, with all that silly slowdown and some of the added weapons. I'm fond of the charge shot, since it damages while charging, letting you tackle things with your ship and options. It's a bit like playing Roll-Type in Dangan Feveron.

>>953528
Run 'n' guns are platformers with shooting like Contra and Metal Slug. Arena shooters are top-down shooters like Asteroids, Smash TV, Shock Troopers, and Pocky and Rocky.

>>953528
you're a fucking asshole, fuck off

>>953872
Except I see games like Shock Troopers and Pocky and Rocky constantly referred to as run'n guns (alongside Contra and Metal Slug). How do you know these games are called arena shooters? What secret club are you a member of anon?

>>953872
But you run and you gun. How is it not a run n gun?

>>953872
>>954565
side scrolling shooters=contra metal slug
overhead shooters=pocky and rocky
shmup=auto-scrolling shootings=

>>954565
>What secret club are you a member of anon?
The club where people who know shit about general arcade genres discuss games. Clearly you weren't invited as I have never, ever even once heard a top-down shooter like Shock Troopers referred to as a run 'n' gun. You're full of shit or you hang out with morons.

>>954829
Dude. Nobody calls them arena shooters either. Quake is an arena shooter. Does Pocky and Rocky play like Quake? Fuck no.

>>954829
In my day we just called them all shooters.

what's a good starting point for Saturn shmups?

my choices i'm considering are Dodonpachi, Layer Section, Darius Gaiden, Salamander Deluxe Pack or Thunder Force Gold Pack 2.

My goal is to get them all eventually but where's a good place to start?

>>954893
Uh no, Quake III is an FPS arena shooter. Games like Smash TV and Robotron 2084 were arena shooters before FPS players stole the moniker.

>>955063
The Saturn version of DDP is no good. If anything, use that money to buy yourself Garegga instead.

>>955158
Thats cool and all, but Pocky and Rocky isn't anything like Robotron and Smash TV, how is it an arena shooter?

>>955368
Are you serious? It plays exactly the same as them. You shoot at things from a top-down perspective. They're all descended from Asteroids.

>>955063
Darius Gaiden and RayForce/Galactic Attack are perfect places to start, in that they are both very cheap, and are excellent games.

After that, Salamander Deluxe Pack would be my next bet.

>>955063
Get Batsugun.

>>955536
thanks I'd probably go this route
>>955631
>>955328
I'd love to get both of those but those are some serious pricetags

>>955063
Hyper Duel, I say.

It's totally worth the price.

>>955726
Damn, yea, Batsugun has gone up since I last checked.

I'd vote for Darius Gaiden and Layer Section then.

If you do go for Darius Gaiden make sure not to cheat with the autofire cheat code. I know there are a certain number of fags on the internet that use it but it totally breaks the game.

>>956249
Choose not to use it if you wish, but it definitely isn't a cheat code. It's part of the default controls.

>>956249

The funny thing is the game isn't even that hard to begin with. All you have to do to prevent bosses from dragging out too long is to make sure your wave shot has white bullets in it and to dump your missiles onto their weak point as much as possible. Capturing captains is literally the only part of the game that requires any button tapping.

>>954829
News: In order to know anything about video games you need to be in this anon's club. If you are in a region with different videogame vocabulary or have been gotten information from any source that doesn't use the same genre names you are a moron.

Welp.
http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/commando/commando.htm
http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/shocktroopers/shocktroopers.htm
http://www.arcade-history.com/?n=alien-syndrome&page=detail&id=61
http://www.arcade-history.com/?n=out-zone-tp-018&page=detail&id=1900
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=35202
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4682
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=146362#p146362

>>957920
Video game subgenres are some seriously convoluted shit these days and every community seems to use names differently. Depending on where you go, games like Diablo are called hack n slash whereas elsewhere hack n slash refers to a game like Devil May Cry

>>957947
Yeah is what I am thinking as well. Hell, I even see people use the term Shoot 'em Up for things like Doom. I mean it isn't like they are incorrect, they are shooting things up in first person shooters.

Then we have other games like Castlevania that have both action and platforming and we call them action platformers, or action games, or who knows what else. Then it makes me start thinking at what point does a game with platforming elements not considered a platformer due to how frequent platforming is in the game or in what form it appears as.

>>957947
I used to think DMC was a 3D beat 'em up until I played it and realized it was a 3D style 'em up adventure.

>>958067
I think anything works so long as it is properly conveyed to whomever you are talking with. My favourite is to just use words that accurately describe a video game even for someone who has never played one.

Run 'n gun? Gonna run and shoot... or maybe play some basketball?
Fighting game? Yeah, gonna fight!
RPG? Rocket lawnchairs have their own GENRE? Fuck Yeah!

>>917450

i liked gunbird 2. its in my dc right now

>>958067
Doom is the shmuppiest point and shooty, you dodge stuff and you blast it in the first person perspective.

>>958231
I've been thinking about making save states to practice the second loop stages. I've done about 30 or so runs in total and it's very fun so far, but like hell I'm going through the entire game just to practice those stages for a few seconds before I miss 3+ times in 30 seconds.

>>958158
stop posting you attentionwhoring thread derailing asshole

>>924645
After Burner 2

How is the Saturn Virtua stick for playing shmups? Or is it totally out of the question.

>>959453
So long as it requires no more than three buttons (can't think of any Saturn exceptions) it is totally excellent for them. I used to play Battle Garegga, Layer Section and Batsugun with it.

>>917450
Dreamcast version right?
Aine is my husbando

>>956259
Uh no, you input a cheat code to access it, it's a cheat code. You know I'm referring to rapidfire and not the default firing speed right?

>>957920
Were you trying to prove something with that torrent of links? If so I'm not sure what.

What are good entry level SHMUPs?
The only expirience I've had with games like these is Beat Hazard

>>961042
Since you ask, search the word run in each of them to notice it's fairly common to use run 'n gun for topdown shooters, because the expression is (in common fucking sense) used to describe games in which you run and gun.

Anyway, time for some purely on topic distraction from our useless genre splitting bullshit. Let's go for another score competition. This time for a game which is playable by the average player in these threads.

DoDonpachi should be good for that, right?

>>959718
I have such a fierce Darkstalkers boner I was upset the PS2 port was not based on the DC version.

>>961074
From easiest to hardest (from personal experience):
Deathsmiles IIX
Zanac Neo
Batsugun Special (Ordinary version will RAPE YOU)
Genetos (I count Creator difficulty around this level, you can try easier)
Fantasy Zone
Pop 'n Twin Bee
Darius Gaiden on an easy route (try ABDHLQV)
Deathsmiles playing as Rosa
Mushihimesama, Original mode (great at training you to watch the entire screen)

You could always just play a Touhou if that is more your thing.

>>961114
>You could always just play a Touhou if that is more your thing.
but I dont know what my thing is yet

>>961074
Pop'N Twinbee

>>961074
Blue Wish Resurrection Plus is a really good entry-level SHMUP, and it's free.

Hi /vr/,

/toy/ manchild here, was wondering if any of you knew of a way I could emulate Raiden III or IV on my PC?

>>961394
Raiden III actually has a PC version (although I've never played it and couldn't tell you the quality of the port).

That said I don't believe there are any problems with emulation of the PS2 version so you should be able to run it with PCSX2

>>961406

I actually have tried getting a hold of the PC version but every site I download it from has oddly ripped out the music. I didn't know it was released for the PS2 though so I'll try emulating it that way, thanks!

>>961527
The Taito Type X arcade version is playable with a Type X Loader. You may need a properly powerful computer to get the most out of it though.

My contest entry.

>>961074
Lords of Thunder!

>>961546
The same loader should also play Raiden 4 so it's worth a shot even if emulating the PS2 goes well.

didn't /vg/ used to have a shmup general?

not that /vg/ is any good

>>961685

Yeah I got a hold of Raiden IV and I'm just trying to figure out the emulator now.

>>961693
I think it died off

>>923029
>shared by "HUTINA"

aww yea

>>924650
I was about to say, damn.
There's a few doujin shmups in that perspective, but not a whole lot either.

>>925794
Oh, they changed the ship screaming thing? That's good, 'cause that was kinda terrifying I thought.

>>941398
SDOJ and maybe DFKBL have pretty heavy OSTs at times. Can't really think of many other doujin ones than those you mentioned though.

>>946080
Every Extend Extra
yw

>>961074
Just play DoDonPachi forever. It's (arguably) the first bullet hell, and still one of the best. And has a reasonable difficulty curve (as far as shmups go) to boot.

>>961782
It died of quite a few times, then never really came back again.

>>961685
I bet you died there on purpose haha

Didn't realize there was a scoring contest, oh no. I haven't played vanilla DDP in weeks now, probably forgot all the chaining paths already. I'm not even consistent with anything beyond 1-4.

>>961785
Yeah, now the ship only screams when you lose your last life. I know it's the elemental doll screaming, but I find it funnier to think that the ship is screaming.

Am I the only one who doesn't like the style of Raizing games? There are just too many effects going on like a bunch of shrapnel spinning around and other visual noise that it is hard to see where the projectiles are, especially because of the color and shape of a lot of the enemy projectiles that come at you that sometimes you don't see it coming at you until the last minute because you thought it was just more shrapnel from a ship exploding.

>>962313
This is really only a viable complaint in Battle Garegga. The same thing could be said about the Raiden Fighters series too, but like them you get used to it after a bit and are able to differentiate the projectiles from other things just fine.

>>962313
And if you wanna complain about visual noise look no further than later CAVE games (and those which ape them) with their extremely obnoxious on-playfield numbers.

>>962325
> damn i hate all those annoying number i just want to dodge bullets

>>962325
Pfft, do you even score?

do the Sega Saturn Satakore releases of Dodonpachi and Layer Section affect nowaday's pricing?

It's been a while since I've played DDP.
First time reaching stage 5.

One day I hope we can have a shmup thread without attention whores...

Is Batsugun worth it's price? I'm debating whether to pick it and Dodonpachi together and MAYBE Thunder Force Gold Pack 2. My original plan was Dodonpachi/Thunder Force Gold Pack 2.

I DID just spend money on a Batsugun-esque priced Saturn game: US Shining Force III

>>962884
You'd do yourself and everyone else a great favour then by getting some kind of anonymizer so us "attention whores" look just like any other anon to you.

>>963128

You'd do yourself and everyone else a great favour by fucking off

>>962884
So threads without you then? You're the only person shitting up this thread, and the only person bringing attention to the fact that people are name/tripfagging here. If you had such a problem with them being "attention whores" why would you give them so much attention that you claim they crave?

You're a fucking idiot.

>>962884
Ironically you're the only one shitposting for attention. Good job

>>963326
>>963336

Thanks for taking my side, guys. We have to show him and every other faggot like him that I run this shit.

>>963983
Gr8 b8 anon. No-one is fooled. Why do you hate Shmups so much?

>>964001

Why do you like giving me attention so much?

>>964015
Pity, mostly.

What is it about shmups exactly that attracting annoying namewhores anyway? Is it just because it's more of a niche genre so fags have an easier time gaining notoriety amongst a small group of discussers?

>>963983
>>964015
You can use the title, it's quite all right. If it wasn't I would be trippin'. We can all be TATErs in here! I'm sure a lot of us already are.

>>964051

We are just normal people and we like playing video games like everyone else!

If our circlejerks annoy you that much you can just avoid the threads!

>>964051
It's pretty hard to post high scores without including a name. I assume it just follows naturally from that.
Though TATEr isn't that annoying. Has shit opinions sometimes (R-Type II better than III what the fuck), but not that annoying.

>>964071
>not posting with your initials

>>964079
What if TATEr's initials are TATE?

Can't we just take it easy?

>>964120
Easy mode is for wusses. Time to play Darius Gaiden.

hey guys, you're ruining the thread with your fighting

this is an anonymous board, it's not correct posting with names and/or avatars

could you please stop it?

normally people are lurk for a while and learn a bit about the culture before posting so that you pick up things (like not using names) where 4chan differs from forums

I'm this guy
>>955063

and I just bought Batsugun, Dodonpachi, and Thunder Force Gold Pack 2.
Will buying shmups always hurt this bad?

I want to get high-score good in bullet-hell shmup in six months. Which is the easiest to learn scoring in your opinion? No PC or console exclusives.

>>965379

4chan is whatever you want it to be, as whoever you want to be on it.

For that reason, most people elect to be subhuman, such as yourself. The rest of us don't give a fuck about your "culture".

Moreover, I've been lurking for over two goddamn years, and I don't need to be condescended to by some random self-oblivious prick.

>>966126
Always.
And selling them hurts even more.

>>966319
Oh wow, two years.

Fuck off, tripfag.

>>966402
You seem utterly buttdevastated that someone chose to not be anonymous.

>>966440
No, I'm disgusted that someone thinks they're better than everyone else because they have a tripcode and spent a whopping two years on 4chan.

This isn't a popularity contest nor should it be treated as such.

>>966461

Why are you so mad that you wouldn't be able to become popular even if you tried?

>>966207
DoDonPachi. Would recommend DOJBL, but it requires stage long chaining to be good at, hence much harder.

Not sure if it counts as bullet hell, but there's also HOTDOG STORM, the baddest shmup around. It has nothing to do with hotdogs, but you get to fly around in a ship and shoot stuff. It's not a bad STG, I just wish it had more hotdogs.

I was going through files on an old computer I never use anymore, and I found these gems:

>>966495
Forgot image.

Yeah, basically a bunch of trolly Touhou images.

HUGE WALL OF TEXT holy shit

>>966497
>>966503

>trolly

Everything in those images are true, just because you can't face facts doesn't make them troll images buttmad anon

If you are in japan and looking for some for game centers:
http://www19.atwiki.jp/karishooterwiki/

>>966497
>that image
>fake difficulty Gradius Syndrome games
>Fake Difficulty
You bitches don't know 'bout Fake Difficulty. It's REAL difficulty!

http://www.insanedifficulty.com/board/index.php?/topic/10-fake-difficulty-is-real/

>>966610
Let me show you the door.

if a game has fake difficulty you just need better fake skill and fake reflexes

I guess it's about time I started tripping. My ape is getting uncomfortably close to mimicking the real deal there.

>>966461
That guy has some weird inner workings but rest assured he isn't thinking more of himself for using a trip. He is thinking less of you for not using one. He is kind of the reverse of anons hating trips.

>>966485
Seconding DoDonpachi. Good difficulty curve and simple to understand scoring system. 6 months with that should give you a good foundation I guess.

>>966626
this guy gets it