/vr/ - Retro Games

>>9442415
I don't understand. It's an 8-bit JRPG. The game *is* random encounters, interspersed with rare, poorly-translated bits of dialogue.

>>9442458
I'm talking "take 2 steps after a battle and entering another battle" levels of bullshit here.

>>9442469
That's literally what the game is about. The plot is barely there, the game is about battles, learning about what you're fighting and gauging whether or not it's worth fighting it or running from it.
Especially early game you're meant to run from half the shit you run into.

>>9442476
So the game is just total shit then?

>>9442480
Yes

>>9442480
No, it has gameplay instead of story.

What a lot of people don't seem to know about FF1 is that there's a lot of tiles that will spawn combat every single time.
Look up "FF1 hall of giants"

Lol, you stole from the treasure chest that doubles your encounter rate. Next time don't be so greedy.

Been a while since I last played a gen 3 RPG but I remember Mother 1/Earthbound Zero being even worse

>>9442415
>Tell me that FF2 is better about random encounters
Oh you sweet summer child

>>9442415
FF2 is worse than FF1 in almost every aspect, avoid it entirely.

>>9442512
>>9442476
FF1 has a lot of story. It's just told with as little words as possible and with gameplay elements. It's a lot of small things that make you realize you are living in the world in which the 4 Fiends have won, entire civilisations gone extinct, and small groups of survivors here and there clinging to life by a thread.

>>9442753
Mother's encounter rate is DQ style, NES DQ style, which is different from FF. In FF, it's like, every step has the same number of chance to trigger an encounter. In NES DQs and in Mother, the system is different: it alternates between phases during which you'll get a lot of encounters, sometimes often another fight after a single step, and between phases with lower encounter rates which leaves the player time to explore the dungeons.
The problem with this sytem is that people are stupid and ALWAYS look at the glass half full, they'll realize they're getting another fight after a 1-2 step, but fail to realize when after that they're given a break and make 20-30 steps without a fight.

>>9442761
That's mostly because they're trap rooms.

>>9442480
JRPG fans be like "I love turn based combat" but cry when a game focuses on it

>>9442415
>being shocked at encounter rate on early jrpg from the 80s
Is this guy retarded? If I walk into a KFC I'm not going to be surprised at seeing niggers. It comes with the territory
You want some shitty encounter rates? Play Megami Tensei Digital Devil Story

>>9442907
>that face
kek, looks like a twilight princess character

>>9442469
What, are you doing a low-level run or something? Kill the shit, enjoy the victory jingles, xp and gil, and carry on.

>>9442415
I doubt FF1 is even in the upper half of encounter frequency for pre-1990 JRPGs

Asking a semi-related question here: I feel like I'm approaching the end of FF2, or at least must be most of the way, so I need to start thinking about FF3. What is the "definitive" version of that game? I'm sure it has a bunch of versions just like 1 and 2.
>>9442761
I was floored when I saw these for the first time. Like doubling down on OP's problem. Absolutely sick fucks.
>>9442780
FF1/2 are the only FF games I have played so far, and I think FF2 is a huge step forward (although I don't particularly care for either). The story is more interesting, the character stats are more dynamic, the combat is deeper, the vast majority of mechanics are superior. I don't know why everyone shits on it, is it like with Adventure of Link where people hate it because it's "a good game, but not a good Final Fantasy game"? Of course, I made the (probably unfortunate) choice of playing the GBA Dawn of Souls versions of both, and I think they made as many positive tweaks as negative to both of those.

>>9442907
turn based combat is fun when it's engaging and makes you think a little bit to progress. this game is literally just mashing attack until shit is dead. not even the status effects do much to hinder you.

>>9443720
Half the stuff in the game doesn't work well due to programming bugs. The programmer was an Iranian-American who had a language barrier with the bugmen at Square. Anyways, you're retarded for having modern expectations for one of the first console jrpgs

>>9443727
i played the first DQ and i loved that game. battles were a smidge less frequent, and the battles would also be over in seconds, where as with this game more often than not it'll pile on 9 enemies on the screen for you to tear through nice and fucking slow until everything is gone or fled because you're so high level from doing this the millionth time.

if we're comparing the two, DQ is way fucking better. DQ's only problem going forward is that it basically did nothing to change it's formula because that's how well it worked for people, which if you're trying to play them back to back might fatigue you. FF at least tries to do new shit later on that works out wonderfully.

>>9443736
I don't understand how you can find DQI to be less of a slog than FFI when FFI has more to it, both visually and mechanically.
Since you're playing Origins, I assume you have auto-targeting on. It sounds like a QoL change but I personally found myself bored on auto-pilot when I had it on. Keeping it off makes the fights much more engaging due to the need to keep mental track of enemy HP and optimize actions for efficient combat.
Battles against swarms of enemies go faster when you can use the free spell-casting equipment to immediately thin out the crowd. You start finding this gear about halfway through the game.

>>9443395
>I need to start thinking about FF3. What is the "definitive" version of that game? I'm sure it has a bunch of versions just like 1 and 2.
There actually aren't that many since the Famicom version of FF3 never left Japan. For a while most people's experience with FF3 was through the 3D remakes for the DS/PSP/PC. Some people will say the Pixel Remaster is the definite version of the original FF3 as it's an official release of the 2D version (and it has some small QOL changes taken from the 3D port, as well as doing away with the mechanics that penalized you for changing jobs and making the final dungeon a little less punishing). But if you want to experience the original Famicom version there are some translation patches floating around. The 3D remake fleshes out the Onion Kids a little and makes them their own characters to an extent. Though there's some quirk with the battle system because the devs were only able to put 3 enemies on the battle field at once so enemies got a bit buffer to compensate.
Anyway, I'd recommend checking out the 2D version, whether it be the pixel remaster or a translation of the Famicom version.

>>9442761
>>9442903
yeah wizardry had those too

>>9443395
> I don't know why everyone shits on it, is it like with Adventure of Link where people hate it because it's "a good game, but not a good Final Fantasy game"?
It's mostly because they read really shitty walkthroughs that told them they needed to grind for a billion years and then they got their asses kicked in the endgame anyway because the guide was wrong.

>>9442780
I gave up on 2, the odd leveling and just incessant random battles just sucked my interest even if the story was good enough.

>>9442415
Use game genie and infinite gold. Going to take 10 hours to get a silver sword

>>9442780
Disregard what this faggot said. FFII is the best 8-Bit FF and the only one with characterization and plot specifically relative to your party members. The GBA port is quite nice as well. I prefer the original Vancian magic system over the MP system they tracked on, but it's worth it for the extra dungeons and the mode that let's you play as your dead homies fighting through the afterlife to aid you in your quest once you finish the game

>>9443395
>What is the "definitive" version of that game?

Famicom fan translated. Unless you're a "omg so retro!!" hipster in which case DS and PR versions are more up your alley

>>9443720
>this game is literally just mashing attack until shit is dead.

Player of the GBA version spotted. If all you do in (the actual) FF1 is mash attack you're going to spend more time hitting air than hitting targets and are going to run out of ressources very quickly.

>>9443727
>Anyways, you're retarded for having modern expectations for one of the first console jrpgs

FF1 was competing with DQ3 (and the DQ2 inspiration is obvious in FF1). JRPGs were already an established best selling genre.
The bugs in FF1 are most likely due to lack of budget and time.

FF2 depicts a dying world really well for a NES game.

>>9445081
FF2 always had MP, though. You're thinking of FF1.

>>9443904
>only able to put 3 enemies
Wow. From 9 to 8 to 3, I'm surprised modern FF games have enemies on screen at all. But that was an informative post, thanks. I'll look into the Famicom version, since I played remakes of 1/2 and feel like I should work in one original early-series entry...
>>9445232
...especially with it being seconded here.
>>9444963
>walkthroughs
Sounds deserved.
>>9445646
>dying world
I don't get that sense at all in FF2. The world is crammed with monsters and stuff. It feels like the end of a particular political era, but I'm not noticing anything that makes the world itself seem in danger.

>>9445646
>>9445765
Yes, dying world would be FF1. FF2 feels more like, a world on the edge of a world war.

>>9445232
>Player of the GBA version spotted.
If you were at all following the thread you'd know it was the ps1 version. Read before you speak

>>9445765
>From 9 to 8 to 3, I'm surprised modern FF games have enemies on screen at all.
I believe the reason is due to the devs not being too familiar with the DS hardware. They went on to do the DS version of FF4, which was a little better about the max number of enemies in a fight (around 6).

oh boy another seething retard filtered by game thread

literally no reason to post, op. you're a faggot who didn't have fun, you don't add anything to the conversation

>>9445950
Then you used the setting that automaticallys locks on other targets when one is dead, in other words: cheating

>>9447067
I really love the post-prologue screen of FF1 where the characters are looking out over the bridge. It's a good idea. FF really did get a lot of stuff right.

Is there some theme to this collage though? I'm staring at it trying to figure out if it's more than just random screenshots.

>>9444963
I also find that people struggle with the Marsh Cave. Which is hard, but once you get used to the idea that retreating and resupplying is reasonable it works better.

FF 1-3 are absolute wastes of time in that regard
save yourself the effort

even 4 is arguably too tiresome

>>9447098
it's just random screenshots to get an idea of the game. It's not mine though, and it uses a palette with some really light colours.

>>9442415
Whatever you do, don't wander to the top right area near the entrance of the earth cave. That area is a random encounter each step.

And no, FF2 is just as bad, if not worse. It's also worse than FF1.

>>9443720
The NES version required strategy, but brainlets like you shit on that too for being "too tedious".

>>9442761
You expect there to be a treasure or reward in every path and room? Have you never played a saga game? Brain damaged fucking retard

>>9443720
Why the fuck do you think there's a Japanese controller that's one handed purely for playing RPGs

>>9445046
The game has a ton of fetch quests early on, always getting something and going back to Altair. It's fucking annoying. The leveling system is shit and also broken.

>>9442907
not him but i'm fine with turn-based combat, braindead random encounters is what is total shit

>>9442415
just play the psp version or steam version

>>9447120
Got it. I've been replaying it with this Bit Remaster the last few days. Kind of have an urge after beating this to either replay the original or hunt down the MSX version, which I've never played, or the original.
That Famicom fan translation looks interesting though.

>>9447231
because japanese people were fucking retarded?

>>9447103
That post was about FF2, not FF1.

>>9447750
Ah, I see. Well, I will note that a lot of Walkthroughts for the NES version of 1 also say you should grind a lot.
But yes, it's particularly annoying with 2 how people talk about having to follow some supposed optimal leveling strategy when it's just not true.

>>9447764
> I will note that a lot of Walkthroughts for the NES version of 1 also say you should grind a lot.

Walkthroughs of old RPGs always say that. Last time I checked an FAQ for a Famicom RPG it recommended to grind for what would amount to 40 hours for the entire game. 3-4 hours was more than enough. Never forget that you have to be a turbo autist to write an FAQ for an old RPG

>>9447764
Yeah, I remember an FF1 walkthrough that said you should be level 40 before taking on the final boss. You can beat him at like level 23.

>>9447782
Most walkthroughs tend to be written by people that only played the game through once, so all strategies and advice is just based on their one and only attempt at stumbling through the game. Writing a FAQ does not mean you're an expert.

>>9442480
please, just go back to playing your receptor frying 50 dlc trash and leave the complete pieces of art to the chads to enjoy :)

Going to play FF1 on NES soon. Should I use any of the bugfix patches?

>>9447798
And a lot of people aren't that good at them. You see that here, and we see that with the general direction of RPGs where they have increasingly tended towards being pretty easy, and playable with relatively little effort.
The best games now have hard difficulties that attempt to flex the mechanics, but the baseline is closer to press X to win. I don't always mind that even, but it's noticeable.

>>9447820
Yeah why not, or play the PSX version and disable auto targetting, which leads to more or less the same thing

>>9447820
No, patches are for fags.

>>9447902
But why play an objectively broken game?

>>9447112
Why are you here?

>>9447510
I think you might be the retard.

The worst part about FFI NES isn't even all the bugs. It's having to buy potions one at a time.

>>9448404
whatever you say, nippy

Been a while since I've played I but III (FC) definitely has some super-fucked encounter rates. The final dungeon was real awful. Everything else is really excellent though, great game.

FF games don't become playable until 4.

>>9449138
And though FF4 is playable, I can't say that it's worth playing.

>>9447804
>Der Jarpig

OP here

Beat 1, thought the story was neat for one of the first big jrpgs. Playing 2 now. Weird getting used to the new leveling system but as far as i can tell random encounters ARE actually not as annoying. Especially on the world map. Also think it's cool that this is like an actual story with proper dialogue now. Thank you all for discussing these games while i finished it.

>>9449248
You finished FF1 already? Wow. It took me a fair bit of time. Post your thoughts on FF2 when you get further in, the beginning/mid/end all feel a little different, kind of like how FF1's do.

Play Mother 1 if you think any Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest has high random encounters.

>>9450443
Mother's encounter rate is pretty much identical to DQ2/3/4, it works the same manner too alternating between between high and low encounter rate phases

>>9442415
>This game has WAY too many random encounters

Wait until you get a load of FF2.

>>9448457
>It's having to buy potions one at a time.

You mean 10 at a time.

>>9450691
That is a feature of a patch and not the original game. It is also my bugfix patch of choice.
For the curious: https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/5597/

>>9450408
so far i reached the point where josef gets crushed by a boulder

i like the little question and keyword system they have for dialogue to make things more interesting and personal. haven't gotten much further past this point but so far i'm infinitely more engaged. also i took everyones weapons away and everyone is going monk mode and i'm demolishing everything. someone told me that's only going to take me so far but we'll see how far we can take it lmao
>>9450679
might be a product of the psx port but so far, it's not that bad. there was no "easy mode" to select from either like 1's port on origins has so there's no real way to change the difficulty. the only thing that sucks is the trap rooms so far. there' too fucking many of them.

>>9451927
I agree with you about the dialog system. I don't get why everyone shits on FF2 so consistently, I thought they added a lot of cool things to FF1's formula. I enjoyed the beginning and up to a bit past where you are a lot. That being said, I'm almost at the end of FF2 and I'm feeling like it loses some steam along the way. But I am playing the GBA version, so it might be better/worse for you. I don't want to say anything specific in case it alters your perception.
>trap rooms
Abysmal game design idea. I can see what they were thinking, but it doubles down on something I didn't like in FF1: that the dungeons weren't quite labyrinthine enough to be worth drawing maps for, but with all the random encounters and zig-zagging you can get lost or miss stuff if you happen to zone out and forget your mental model of the dungeon for a bit. The trap rooms make that so much worse, and they act as disincentives to explore, which isn't very fun.

>>9451927
The issue with the dialog system is mostly that it's pretty underutilized, largely resulting in two spots in the game where you need to run back and forth and talk to every major npc in the game just to figure out which one will give you the next keyword you have to try on everyone. The idea was okay, but the execution is bad.

>>9443395
>What is the "definitive" version of FF3?
There honestly isn't one since the WonderSwan Color version was unceremoniously canceled and so SE didn't have a base version until the 3D remake. I would recommend against the 3D remake for picrel reasons, it's easily the worst of the 3D remakes. If you've been playing Dawn of Souls, the closts would be Pixel Remaster, despite the Casual of Life improvements.

>>9442480
FF1 on NES barely even functions; like a good half of the spells don't even work

>>9447217
No, I expect the dungeon designers to not use the same "haha multiple doors but only 1 is correct" gimmick in almost every single dungeon.

>>9443395
>I don't know why everyone shits on it
Because it has a lot of obnoxious things that were okay on paper, but horrible in execution:

-Keyword system is pointless, since most NPCs only respond to certain keywords and give "?" to anything else, so you just waste time trying every keyword until you find the one that does something
-Being able to build your characters however you want is nice in theory, but really you just end up with 2 melee fighters and a caster since everything takes forever to level
-Way too much grinding for minimal gains, especially magic, where you have to cast the same spell literally like 20+ times to level it once, for EVERY SINGLE SPELL
-Rotating 4th party member sucks because most of the time they are way weaker than the rest of your party and are completely useless

There's a reason why classic FFs never went back to using FF2's systems. It sucked.

Played through FF1 on NES and really enjoyed it. Played the PS1 Origins, Anthology, 7, 8, 9. FF1 is a good game. JRPGs are fun, but you gotta be in the right mindset for them. You're trying to survive an endless onslaught of monsters and deal with them as efficiently as possible. You got a handful of spells, a bunch of HP, and maybe a tent and some potions. You don't know how deep dungeons are or how strong bosses are and if you didn't ration your resources correctly you'll be limping back to town and risk a game over. There's definitely some strategy in the random encounters, but by and large the strategy and fun is in the macro of your gameplay. The spells, classes, items, ext is all risk reward resource management. Of course you could sit in the forest and grind out levels. Why not? Sometimes you just need a ninja gaiden / mario 2 lost levels break.

>>9452328
I actually disagree with all of those points, although I acknowledge that other issues exist. At least for Dawn of Souls, I think FF2 was clearly better than FF1.
>Keyword system is pointless
A huge advancement. It's a hybrid approach to a dialogue tree from a more "full" RPG, allowing the player to feel some level of immersion as the party. It lets you get some additional setting information, i.e. a character may need to be asked about A to advance the plot, but gives interesting responses to C and D as well. Also, if you're just trying to beeline, it's not hard to figure out what you're supposed to ask. Were you sent to find mithril? Ask the miner about mithril; why would you ask him about airships? Are you trying to find a lost tome? Ask the wizard about the tome; why would you ask him about some guy that lives on another continent?
>2 melee fighters and a caster
Or 3 melee fighters. I just swapped one to a caster just for diversity, if anything it's a step back in combat strength for the moment. The other guy in the thread mentioned he put them all onto monk mode. And here your characters can splash white/black magic both, whichever spells you choose. Far more options than FF1, where you have to choose from the start Fighter/Fighter/Red Mage and then be locked into it the entire game.
>too much grinding
I haven't done any grinding yet, in the version I'm playing I'm sure I'll be 2-shotting the final boss once I reach it.
>cast the same spell literally like 20+ times
Sure, but this is FF. There are 20 random battles on each floor of a dungeon. Also, half the spells aren't worth casting, so there's plenty of XP to go around. Once you get Osmose you have infinite spellcasts.
>4th party member sucks
Yeah, I don't focus on them. But they don't make the game worse, you can keep them dead all the time and it doesn't matter. The only way they really impact the game is by stealing shit when they unexpectedly leave. So never give them good stuff.

>>9452791
Yep, this is a great part of the fun for me in Famicom RPGs. Ressource management as a whole, it is what gameplay was all about in jRPGs at the time, the main design cue showing that is that bosses are generally fairly simple, *except* the thing is you have to fight them with what we have left after endless encounters that wear you down little by little. Versus 16-bit RPGs onwards in which random encounters are meaningless and bosses are generally the only bit of challenge.

This is what people who don't like Famicom RPGs don't get, they expect to just be able to spam X to win random encounters and then when ports/remakes allow them to do that they complain about this very same thing anyway.

I have so many awesome memories playing FF1, such as barely surviving and managing to make it back to town anyway with just a white mage only because enemies managed to miss that white mage on the way...

>>9442469
So don't play it.

>>9442415
I LOVE the PS1 version. Super fun. If you don’t like the random encounters I’d look at other jrpgs than mainline final fantasy.

>>9447112
Your comment is not retro.

>>9447029
>>9447827
>>9447902
I will never fault people for wanting to not play Final Fantasy with that shit where targets don't get shifted if they're killed before a character lands a hit.
I get that it adds some challenge, but it also adds a lot of frustration and tedium in other ways, there's a reason you don't see this in the rest of the series (or genre).

>>9453176
It's not just FInal Fantasy and it's how the games were balanced to begin with. It adds depth to gameplay, as the player needs to memorize enemies HP and estimate what it takes to kill each enemy when prioritizing targets (this works well in games with no ATB as you can take the time to plan your turn accordingly).

For me it was very obvious in Dragon Quest 2 specifically as in the SNES version there wasn't much in terms of balance changes except for auto targeting, and it really made the game easier and more braindead. Also, in the case of Final Fantasy 2, the player potentially loses experience when NOT hitting air. Even if you don't hit air often it can mean the difference between earning a point or not at the end of the battle.

>>9453176
the lack of auto-target in FF1 makes it a better game and I wish more RPGs played the same way.

>>9442415

Lol filtered