/vr/ - Retro Games

>>9441320
Yes.

>>9441320
No. It's better they did and at least we got good games out of it that other people then attempted to imitate. If they hesitated then low talent hacks would have jumped into the market a year later and captured everyone's imagination instead. If Bubsy 3D was the first 3D platformer on the market it would be considered one of the best games of all time.

>>9441320
>lacks so much in terms of depth and content

>>9441338
OOT/SM64 were exceptions as evident by everything else on the N64
On the PS1 almost everything is heavily gutted

>>9441338
This does not account for getting stuck. Both Mario World and LTTP are harder than 64 and OOT.

>>9441338
>padding=content
lmao numberfags get the rope

>>9441341
I disagree, thinking about other flagship games the PS1 FF games are as long or longer than SNES
SOTN is longer than any previous Castlevania
Gran Turismo 2 has 100x the content of any 4th gen racing game

>>9441320
yes, for nintendo

>>9441320
what do you mean mistake. nothing bad became of it.

>>9441349
Those FF games were heavily front loaded with all of the content at start, FF9 tried to copy the design formula of 6 and it was insanely bloated with godawful pacing due to how much stuff they tried to cram into the plot resulting in it running out of steam and becoming a slog by the end. Xenogears is another example of a hugely bloated game

>>9441338
OOT is very easy and max 10 hours, ALTTP is obtuse with where you are supposed to go as it gives you no hints at all, and most casuals would definitely get stuck in Skull woods and other areas like that

No. 3D was fine and was the pinnacle of gaming once they got the hang of it. Pushing for realistic graphics is where gaming went off the rails. Keeping it 3D along with 'good enough' graphics such as OOT and mario 64 is where they should've stayed.

>>9441356
>unsurpassed 3D platformer
>3D action adventure that set the standard for all 3D action controls going forward
>the go-to FPS console until the Xbox released

it's a miracle nintendo recovered from the mistake of going 3D in the 5th gen

I find the 5th gen the most charming to go back to. Some of you call it a tech demo, in a way it is, but it’s super interesting to revisit the early experimentation and combing over the ways 3D games had to be back then, as opposed to later gens which had a better catalogue and the graphics more on point, but way too similar to modern games at its core to be truly fascinated by

>>9441320
No
5th gen 3D is gorgeous and you’re a moron for thinking otherwise

>>9441382
seconding this. pushing graphics hampered 7th gen console games tremendously. there's hardly any non-linear sandbox experiences that whole generation.

>>9441320
initially yeah, killed a lot of great series' despite creating a lot of great ones too, though there were some remarkable games that were useful templates later on even in the 5th gen
nowadays the only real problem with it is how it phased out 2d games, although considering how shit aaa devs are these days, maybe it's for the best that they're underground

>>9441389
>unsurpassed 3D platformer
rayman 2 shits on mario 64 in terms of performace, graphics, art style, sound and music., story and gameplay

>3D action adventure that set the standard for all 3D action controls going forward
tomb raider was more influencial on that, just look at all the tomb raider clones on ps1 (and even n64)

>the go-to FPS console until the Xbox released
shit console for fps, it had shitty framesps and low res without mentioning the shitty sound quality and fog. the ps1 and saturn (and even the dreamcast, which was the real go to console for fps, with its mouse and keybaord, online capabilities and vga compability) were much more competent at fps, just look at doom, quake 2 on the ps1 or duke nukem, quake (and hellslave, a recent homebrew fps. saturn is still recieving fps games to this day) on the saturn. also the n64 analogue stick sucks and you cant play duke nukem online (like on the saturn)

>>9441421
my problem is the long times it takes to make games now. If they want to push realistic graphics, then fine, but it takes 6+years to make a game now vs 1-2 in the 90's. If they were pushing out lots of games, then at least a few will be good. But instead we get 1-2 games per year from each studio and rarely is it going to be great.

No, it was all of the graphic faggotry from the following generation that killed gaming, all of the budgets going towards visuals, cinematics, and telling a huge story, but at the cost of being extremely linear and sometimes even hallway games without any deviation from that at all, Xenosaga is the prime example of this. Wind Waker was the opposite end of the spectrum, huge world with great graphics and nothing in it.

>>9441449
Nobody gives a shit about Rayman and Tomb Raider was just a glorified Dead or Alive sold on sexual fanservice and nothing else.

>>9441461
kek nice cope, rayman 2 on the dc is pretty good you should give it a try (60fps and vga what do you want more), it really is 100 times better than mario 64. also try tomb raider its really good too. cmon tendie get out of ur comfort zone theres better games out there

>>9441470
I've played it already as with the entire tomb raider trilogy, they aren't noteworthy and very forgettable. Nobody was talking about Rayman 2 in 1999 when SoulCalibur came out and people were too busy blowing their loads over the visuals, gameplay and sound design of it. Tomb Raider is a poorly designed piece of shit that sold solely due to the sexualization of the main character, even at a time where journalists were very forgiving towards games with their scores Tomb Raider scored very pedestrian.

>>9441336
>it would be considered one of the best games of all time
No, that isn't how it works. A piece of shit is still piece of shit no matter when it was shat out. If Bubshart 3D was the first 3D platformer, it may very well have killed 3D games then and there, just as E.T almost destroyed the industry. The lesson here is that the west should remove itself from the industry and never ever return.

No, there are a lot of unique, good things you can do with the third dimension.
The fact that it overtook games to such a degree, and Nintendo and Sony both seemed to be trying to stamp out 3D game design at the time is regrettable. We're only really now getting to the point that that mistake is being righted, and we can actually have decently budgeted 2D games on consoles again. Though even then, the era of absolutely beautiful late 90's sprite games seems to be gone forever.

>>9441375
>ALTTP is obtuse with where you are supposed to go as it gives you no hints at all,
It literally gives you the area and level orders of the dungeons on the map.

>>9441382
If the Wii was at least capable of 720p, in many ways that might have leant itself to nicer looking games than a lot of the Unreal 3 jank we were getting on the other consoles. I actually wouldn't mind if technology more or less just halted there.

>>9441320
the only good 2D zelda games are Zelda 2 and Links awakening
>>9441375
bad game design

>>9441343
>>9441375
>getting stuck is worthwhile gameplay

>>9441320
zelda is one of the few 2d series that is far far far better in 3d

>>9441320
Many games series became shit in 3D like Metroid, others became good for some games like Mario and Zelda

>>9441320
maybe. it's said oot uses star fox 64's engine which is downright odd.

>>9442139
Not necessarily that weird. Starfox 64 has this stuff in it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQtIuNQbQXE

>>9441481
still on the cope, tomb raider was very good, rayman 2 too, and ur just a faggot

>>9441320
No, shut up retard.

Seeing as OOT and MM are the best Zelda games by a wide margin I don't think they made a mistake. They are also deeply more in depth than Zeldas that came prior to them

>>9441320
You're complaining about the first gen of 3D compared to the 4th of 2D. A fairer comparison would be NES to N64.
Devs were figuring out how to make 3d models just move on the screen properly at this time, the tech was in its infancy.
Later gens could have overcome this, but around the end of 6th gen priorities shifted to "realistic" visuals and 7th gen added "cinematic experiences".

>>9441343
>Getting stuck
Looks like someone got filtered
>>9441347
>>9441371
>Nooooo ! The genre defining game doesn't have enough content!
>Nooooo that's TOO MUCH content! That's BLOAT because... IT JUST IS OK!
3D FF, bing bing wahoo, and Zelda absolutely mog their SNES counterparts

What a stupid fucking question. Only a Zoomer or an insufferably awful contrarian could even think of it. Were you even alive at the time, faggot?

>>9441320
Considering SM64 STILL hasn't been outdone in the 3D realm, I'd say no. It's actually insane how well that game utilizes all three dimensions in a dynamic and intuitive manner, from movement to architecture.

>>9441420
Only good post this board has ever seen.

>>9441336
no it wouldn't you fucking retard, there were plenty of 3D platformers before Mario and they were all panned

>>9441320
Yes irrefutably going 3d with the hardware they had was pure hubris and set game design back a decade. Also played into Sony’s overarching strategy to make games more like movies.

>>9442721
>SM64 STILL hasn't been outdone in the 3D realm
What kind of autism is this?

>>9442954
Nintencope

>>9442721
mario 64 is a shit 3d game
>>9441356

>>9441449
The poorly thought out, not detailed, arguments here scream cope. I’m sorry the N64 is also a good console, like the others from Gen 5, and your parents didn’t get you one because you already had a PS1

In practice, 5th gen 2D > 5th gen 3D. But we couldn't have gotten to more advanced 3D without it.

>>9441449
You make it embarrassing to be a PS1fag

>>9443052
auster troon is not a ps1 fag

>>9441341
>On the PS1 almost everything is heavily gutted
Final Fantasy 7 is longer than all of the Final Fantasy games on the SNES.

>>9443052
im a saturnchad faggot

>>9443968
even worse

>>9443026
ill give you arguments
>be n64
>has bad sound quality and most of the musics are snes tier (this is 1996)
>all games run at -20fps
>the fog
>has bad res
>has bad image quality
>has the shittiest analog stick of the 90s
there, the n64 is not a good console, take off ur nostalgia googles and stop being a faggot, the saturn and ps1 was better because they had none of the above problems

>>9443983
>googles
goggles

>>9441320
I know many people says it’s a Golden game, but for me it was Mario 64, I consider that game as a downgrade of the previous 2D games because there wasn’t 1/10 of the bestiary of the former games and really few bosses, new creatures aren’t even really memorable. You are also locked in the castle, no maps to travel around the world, you just go into paintings. And that fucking Yoshi that was here but you couldn’t ride...
I also didn’t like there wasn’t any secret ending or boss after doing the 100% despite the game is really suggesting you to collect everything.

I see Mario 64 more like a SMB1 with the minimal amount of content to help you understand how to play with a 3D game... But it’s not what I wanted after playing SMB3 & World, I really thought even as a kid that Nintendo clearly considered their public as stupid and bad and didn’t want to put real challenge. Tbh every new generation of Nintendo consoles were each time a downgrade in difficulty in my opinion.

>why didn't they just skip all the bad 3D games when everyone was hyped as fuck for 3D instead and jump straight to the good ones
God damn I hate retards.

>>9441338
>spend 20 hours watching the goddess cutscene be explained to you for the millionth time
THIS GAME IS SO LONG SUCH A GOOD VALUE