/vr/ - Retro Games

There's Hydro Thunder but to be honest not even arcade games like Aqua Jet can compete with Wave Race 64's water physics, it's a One of a Kind game, really. Still not sure what kind of shinto magic did they use in it. The Gamecube sequel was also not as good as the N64 Wave Race.

There is no parallel for waverace 64. It got water physics right on the first shot, and still hasn't been matched.

>>9396259
This runs at higher framerate than WR64
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qwRC8OX0y0

>>9396259
N64 is a lot stronger than the PS1, but in Crash 3 they made a few jet-ski levels with dynamic water. I'm not exactly sure how this effect was achieved with the limited hardware, but it's kinda obvious that it must've started as a tech demo that became good enough to use in a final game. I'm not sure if any other PS1 titles have this level water physics, mini-game or otherwise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfllHbGp2Gk

all the zoomers will hop off the waverace bandwagon as soon as one of their ecelebs make a video about picrel

The N64 is really good at expansive landscapes without obvious seams. The z-buffer allows it to manipulate waves and shit without the polygons breaking apart. PS1 would really struggle with that. Of course Naughty Dog pulled it off because they're technical geniuses but it's way easier on N64.

>>9396335
How come Wave Race runs at only 20 fps?

Does Nintendo 64 have a game which can be called an answer to Tekken 3, with emphasis on animation, light sourcing and framerate?

>>9396353
Does Nintendo 64 have a game which can be called an answer to Final Fantasy VII, with emphasis on story, character development, and cinematic videos?

>>9396268
>>9396342
>>9396353
It's kind of obvious you got offended by OP, and to be fair, OP is pretty gay for starting a Wave Race thread with console wars (especially the tired, soulless PS vs N64 war), but you're not better than OP either.
Fanboys gotta fan I guess.

Do the PSX and N64 have a game which can be called an answer to Saturn's uuuuhhhhh

>>9396357
Tbh, retro console wars are fun and I am tired of pretending they're not, if it's actual technical discussions and not just shitposts.

>>9396357
The console war is not the point of the thread, I'm more interested in further exploring PS1 library. PlayStation has literally thousands of games, but I can't instantly come up with an obvious equivalent to Wave Race which is unusual.

>>9396268
I always thought those levels were comfy.

>>9396332
JetMoto was the shit. 2 felt worse to me in some ways, but being able to unlock all the tracks from the first game via a cheat was awesome.

>>9396264
Aqua Jet is still superior to WR64.

>>9396364
>The console war is not the point of the thread
Yeah, right
>but I can't instantly come up with an obvious equivalent to Wave Race which is unusual.
I don't think there are any, outside of that Crash 3 level. Just check the psx racing library in general without looking for a specific visual or gameplay gimmick. Sonething like Wipeout 3 might interest you.

>>9396268
It also doesn't have wave generation.

>>9396373
>recommending Wipeout 3 to a person asking for PS1 deep cuts

>>9396363
>if it's actual technical discussions
That's the worst part, though. Anons pretending to be knowledgeable and just comparing spec numbers taken from wikipedia.
Console wars were, are and will always be poorfag cope.

>>9396332
Hating something because the e-celeb boogeyman touched it is one thing.
But doing it before a video even shows up is another kind of autism entirely.

>>9396380
Didn't mvg just do a video on wave race? Or is that an older one that I've only just watched...

>>9396342
The z-buffer is a double edged sword. It lets the system know where all the polygons are at a given time so they aren't a jittery mess. But it's also resource heavy. It's why the N64 can theoretically push way more polygons than the PS1 but typically doesn't because it would require disabling the z-buffer.

>>9396412
You can disable Z-buffer on N64? Are there commercial games which do so?

>>9396412
Shouldn't this be the other way around: psx wastes too many polygons which are behind other geometry and are not visible to the player, while n64 can conserve those thanks to z buffer?

>>9396421
>Are there commercial games which do so?
I assume there are as many as without the smear filters - Ninty rarely approved those.

>>9396259
rapid racer

>>9396386
>mvg
I don't know what that means, but I'm going to assume you have brainrot.

>>9396421
I don't think any games ever did. Nintendo probably would have been really anal retentive about that kind of thing. Besides, it'd have been a silly thing to do at the time. The z-buffer is one of the things that distinguished the N64 from the PS1 and Saturn. Disabling it would have taken away one of it's main strengths over the competition.

so i guess "z-buffer" is the nintentard equivalent of "blast processing" now

>>9396259
idk why this game gets its dick sucked so much

>>9396480
Play it and find out
inb4 you lie and say you already played it

>>9396480
https://youtu.be/S3qbEGVIthI

You don't want to suck dick to this tune?

>>9396482
It's OK, the hype around it is fake and hypocritical where in one post they'll criticize games for having precalculated waves as if all the wave patterns in wave race aren't set to appear at certain track positions like in >>9396458 cuz thats kind of the point of a game in the first place

>>9396483
no but last night i beat gungage and that had some killer music in it

>>9396431
Modern vintage gamer. He does tech breakdowns of old games and talks about emulation quirks and such. Game/beta leak news... That sort of thing.
But I do drink a lot...

>>9396264
>Still not sure what kind of shinto magic did they use in it.
MVG goes through the actual source code
https://youtu.be/zS146vQYflw

>>9396480
It's a small little game which leaves a very strong initial impression, especially considering how it is almost a launch title.

>>9396487
>It's OK, the hype around it is fake and hypocritical
Stop taking video game discussion as if it was some political thing that goes against your agenda.

>>9396670
No, I won't stop.

>>9396495
>ecelebshit
Oh, you're just a faggot.

>>9396689
Jesus, are you retarded? Follow the god damn reply chain. It was about ecelebs from the start.
Even still mvg isn't really on par with others of his ilk.
Except on twitter, he's annoying on there.

>>9396264
N64 had both Hydro Thunder. Aqua Jet is great though

>>9396268
you have to admit for psx this is fucking insane

>>9396356
majora's mask

>>9396264
Wave Race BS still makes me mad, to this day.

>finally get a sequel to maybe the greatest racing game of all-time
>now on a powerful system that can do 60 FPS, twice the resolution and 4 player splitscreen
>remove one of the essential features from the first game, the Z and R control and backward control stick movement to pivot and "feel" the waves

Fucking wasted potential. If any game needed a patch to go from mediocre to AAA it was this. Literally just bring back the old control.

>>9397018
Going from EAD to Nintendo Software Technology, a third rate american studio, would do that.

>>9397035
Maybe, but they really nailed 1080 Avalanche. It's puzzling that they stumbled with Wave Race.

>>9397047
Alls they had to do was import the gameplay engine, the waves algorithm and build from there.

Is it really fair to compare PS1 and N64? The N64 is objectively a lot more powerful despite having tiny games. PS1 and Saturn is more realistic.

>>9396259
PlayStation was already a shit console compared to any N64 racing games and to have a Wave Race port to PS1 would be a disaster. Wave Race was ahead of its time, it was PS2 tier on graphics and gameplay.

>>9397132
Makes you wonder why the ocean in Wind Waker so boring and flat. They couldn't even beat their own stuff.

>>9397164
The perfect water physics effects in WR64 is the one thing you will never see in any next gen game to this day.

>>9396259
BANZAAAAAAAAAAAI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO0xaMuTmwM

>>9397201
idk, sea of thieve, rdr2, asscreed origins, skull and bones, hydrophobia, dead or alive Xtreme 2, Batman Arkham Knight have amazing water physics

>>9397230
I also mean water wave physics that affect the gameplay not just water visuals. These games don't give the same feeling as having a jet ski jumping through waves as you go.

>>9396758
His explanations are sometimes wrong.

>>9396429
haha, this. Apollo 440 and full throttle!

>>9396259
nintendo won

>>9396357
>Offended by n64 game
Not possible.

Naughty Dog did the same thing at a higher framerate with the Jet Ski levels in Crash 3, just to show that they could. Based madlads thought the jet skis were so basic that they only kept it as a minigame, part of a greater whole.

Those coco levels in Crash bandicoot Warped were sexy as hell.

>>9396353
Rakuga Kids > Kekken

>>9396332
this is the answer, you can do some fun shit in Jet Moto climbing walls and cliffs

>>9397508
But no cool spinning tricks.

>>9397132
>it was PS2 tier on graphics
ehhhh

>>9396332
take me back

>>9397503
Tekken 3 > whole n64 library

>>9397132
N64 is not capable of RRT4 graphics or GT physics though

>>9397115
N64 "power" is a blast processing meme at this point. Lower framerates and texture resolution all around. If anything, N64 rather should compared to Saturn - good for special kind of games but bottlenecked and underpowered in general compared to PS1.

>>9397503
>some obscure weeb game I played for 5 mins on my keyboard is better than one of the best 5th gen fighters

>>9397961
Saturn is more powerful than both psx and n64. It ran Shenmue and Radiant Silvergun both were not possible on any other system but DC and xbox 360.

>>9397970
>I never touched the thing but I'm going to comment on it with things like "obscure" and some projection because I'm a joyless brand warrior cunt
That was intense, bro.

N64 has no good fighting games unfortunately. Rakugakids is all style no substance compared to deep gameplay of SF, VF or Tekken and then that style gets old quick. Something like Fighters Destiny would be an example of good N64 fighting game if it ran at 60 fps.

>>9397983
I still have my n64 I bought on launch. Stick to your emulators and /v/.

To me the water in Coco levels always looked like highly electrified liquid plasma, not actual water.

>>9397132

>>9397983
N64 can't even do 2D

>>9396332
my only wish I life is an uncompressed jet moto 2 title theme. maybe even the original samples if I was really pushing my luck. the crash composer dumped a lot of og and beta tracks if I recall.

>>9398181

>>9398179
There's no way I'm reading all that stupid bullshit.

>>9396259
>>9396310
>I'm not sure if any other PS1 titles have this level water physics, mini-game or otherwise.
Dead in the water seems to have something like that, but neutered because of different genre. Jet Moto is not an exclusive though, it was released for PC.

>>9398181
N64 can do 2D. What a totally bizarre thing to say. There's no reason why stronger hardware would be incapable of doing more rudimentary graphics. Even mainstream 3D games like Mario 64, Mario Kart, etc, used 2D art for some assets. But the N64 was designed to be a 3D system first and foremost.

>>9396363
>and I am tired of pretending they're not
Template post in a template thread. Konsider killing yourself please.

>>9398236
They couldn't even do 2d backgrounds in your example.

>>9398237
Not today

>>9398238
>didn't = couldn't
It's like you ignored everything I said.

>>9396386
Two months ago, as i checked right now. And i strongly feel that WR64 threads started popping up much more frequently in that period. Or maybe it is just my paranoia speaking.
Verification not required.

>>9398191
Not 2d

>>9398236
Spent a lot of blockbuster weekends playing this game. Good times! Wish I had bought it now baka. Always meant to. To late!

>>9398236
Not 2d
>>9398243
They couldn't

>>9398259

>>9398243
N64 has a 4kb texture cache where all 2d assets and animation should be stored to be run at good framerates. PS1 has a 2kb cache but it was free streaming from the 1Mb of VRAM. N64 isn't capable of good 2d for the same reason as why N64 textures in 3d games are worse in general - limited cart size doesn't matter much, the textures don't take much space on a ps1 CD either. In theory you may store the whole Street Fighter Alpha 3 on a N64 cart but the framerate would be horrible and unplayable because the hardware would choke on trying to stream the graphics from the cart in real time with limited cache.

>>9398179
>long list built around brand loyalty and butthurt
I don't know why you'd choose to share this other than to embarrass yourself in public.

>>9398257
Shut the fuck up already.

>>9398282

>>9398282
wonder project j2

>>9398307
Compare the size

>>9398310
Is this an arcade style game running graphics and collisions at 60 fps without input lag?

No but the PS1 has plenty of games that run at acceptable framerates

Real 3D system vs 2.5D

>>9398263
That uses a special chip in the cart that basically includes an entire snes. That's why the game is so expensive.

>>9398310
That's fake 2d like Shovel knight

A reverse dkc

>>9398378
Wait, I never heard of n64 carts using special chips. Source?

>>9397503
fighters destiny > both of those

>>9398403
He's shitposting, the game is expensive because it had a limited print run of 10k copies only.

>>9398338
its an adventure game by the same team that did Nanatsu Kaze no Shima Monogatari but in the n64 game you control shinji from evangelion in a dress

>>9398179
Anti-N64 posters are slowly becoming the most deranged schizos here.

>>9398474
Fighters destiny is legit the best fighting game on N64 but it's still more comparable to second rate stuff like Tobal or Dead or Alive. I'd rate it even lower due to 30 fps limit. Games like Tekken 3 and VF 2 are in another league.

>>9396310
From a cursory glance it would appear the crash water is interfering sine waves. You treat the x and y as inputs to sin(), increment them at different rates and scale them to look like waves. With pre-calculated lookup tables they are super fast.
WR64 on the other hand simulates the motion of water. Waves will crest, crash, water is affected by the landmasses and the effects of the racers ripple outwards from the point of impact and so on.
Crash is more of a rendering effect, WR64 is a simulation that is simplified to run at realtime on an N64.

>>9396353
>>9398687
virtual pro wrestling 2 has hundreds of unique animations. I would wager it has a larger total move list than tekken 3's whole roster.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYc0BfDSFFA

>>9396332
I came to post this. 1 and 2 are the best racing games ever made next to the Wipeout series. Absolutely sick control scheme, insane tracks and a completely original and fukken METAL OST by pinnacle music group. This is seriously the greatest soundtrack to any two games ever made. Post best song NOW

Cypress Run from 1:
https://youtu.be/8nxK99OcUmk

Ka-Ma-Te from 2:
https://youtu.be/zOAPArN8sLM

It's the perfect mix of redneck sounds, heavy metal, ambiance and the ocean. If you want more check out Critical Depth's soundtrack.

>>9401194
Both Jet Moto and Wave Race filter me hard with shitty 20 fps framerate

>>9399323
These are very primitive animations. Not motion captured choreography of Tekken 3

>>9401196
I played this for hours everyday before I even knew what FPS meant. It's not for zoomers and also can't be played on a phone so don't bother.

>>9401242
Nice projection. Framerate was always a big deal and the reason why Daytona bombed on Saturn. Somehow sub-30 fps became the norm during 7th gen around the time you were born.

>>9401198
the game is fairly intricate when it comes to actual wrestling holds and mma techniques. more satisfying if youre into combat sports.

>>9401269
This dudes really complaining about fps in a ps1/n64 thread

>>9401840
And? There are many smooth 30 fps games on ps1 and a couple dozen of 60 fps ones.

>>9401840
I wonder why it's always N64fags who say "framerate is not that important"?

>>9401912
Those people who praise performance in F-Zero X?

To this day we don't have an answer to Wave Race 64. Even the sequel is mediocre.

>>9401940
We came close with the 3DS and Wii, the 3DS was having another drought, they were doing the N64 3D to make up for it, even Pilot Wings got another game, easy cash, just port Wave Race 64 to the 3DS 64 line, put some new shaders and graphical improvements with online. At this point I just think they lost the code for WR64. Surely Nintendo can't be this much inept.

>>9397470
Half the threads on this board at any given moment are made by one or maybe two obsessed PSX console warriors, newfag.