/vr/ - Retro Games

This for example of slowness and clunkiness got to be the slowest box pushing puzzle I've ever seen in a game. Why does she literally stop pushing for 3 seconds every time? I don't know how they thought this would be fun but it's sadly very exemplary of the overall experience

>>9379643
there is a reason they had to pander to horny teens

>>9379647
At pushing boxes for 2 min? You are the reason Western games usually suck.

this game was outdated even before it came out: mario 64 and quake show fluid 3d platforming months before Tomb Raider was released

One thing I noticed that makes it feel so clunky and frustrating is that you can't jump as soon as you start running (see webm), you have to make 2-3 steps first. You can test it yourself easily because the game buffers your jump input. Presumably they wanted it to be one fluid realistic animation and didn't know any better or just didn't want to bother animating all the possible cancels jump angles. However, keep in mind it came out in the same year games like SM64 already perfected 3D controls

Again, this would be charming if she was a robot girl

>>9379647
Now DKC feels good to play, albeit suffering from its own form of clunkiness compared to newer DK games

>>9379657
And it's not just me, all the videos I found show players fighting more with the controls than with anything else. There are also collision bugs like Lara randomly falling after grabbing a ledge, unless it's a weird invisible stamina meter

>>9379652
But Quake is first person

Play the fucking tutorial you triple nigger.

The Tomb Raider games were always bad. Even in 1996 the controls were total shit.

>>9379661
yes and?

>>9379663
lol

>>9379657
Wow that looks like a really fun game to play!

>>9379643
>I remember the OG games being a huge deal back then
They, it (the first), was. One of the first 3D third person adventure games that pushed into realism, with a massive marketing campaign, when the next closest competitor was bing-bing-wahoo cartoon iteration on a different system? Of course it was a big deal.
>I rarely still hear or read about them anymore
There's not much more to say about it after anything similar to the above statement. While it provided a foundation to build upon, it was very quickly improved upon and extremely outclassed in the same generation of consoles. Even playing through a selection of almost random '98 games before playing Tomb Raider makes the late-'96 darling look like a hot mess.

>>9379660
You’re playing it on console yeah? I see this every time people claim the controls are bad. Play the pc version that has bug fixes and stop being a nigger.

>>9379652
Mario obviously isn't a realistic game but you're right that it should've already set a certain standard. Also there are many more realistic third-person games that control very fluidly and don't waste as many buttons indeed, webm related for example
Yes, TB is old but even TB3 suffers from the exact same issues years later, which shows it probably has less to do with release date and more with the developer

>>9379714
Loved this game.

>>9379657
>it doesn’t control like my heckin Mario
That’s because it’s not trying to be Mario, kid. The tomb raider games are the 3d evolution of “cinematic platformers” that come from the likes of prince of Persia, and guess what? Prince of Persia doesn’t control like the 2d Mario games control, because these games come from a different sub genre altogether. And when you finally get this through your head you’ll begin to understand “why” they control the way they do.

>>9379730
>And when you finally get this through your head you’ll begin to understand “why” they control the way they do.
Certainly not because they thought it was ideal, otherwise the games would still play like that

>>9379734
>unironically defending nuraider shit just to spite me
>>>/v/

I want /v/ to leave.

>>9379730
>it's supposed to be bad

>>9379730
Cinematic platformers are just platformers with really bad controls.

>>9379643
Tomb Raider is supposed to be a slower-going puzzle-platformer. The "clunky" controls are intentional. Prince of Persia also had "clunky" controls, and they were intentional in that game too.
>>9379646
She's taking breaks because she's struggling to push a giant rock. She's not The Hulk.

>>9379741
>we made our game play like shit on purpose

>>9379738
>>9379740
The controls are only bad if you’re bad. This is a fact

>>9379734
No, to point out the obvious fact that tank controls like that in games where you play an acobratic character weren't seen as ideal by developers but an emergency measure

>>9379746
The controls are objectively shitty and unresponsive even by 1996 standards.

>>9379746
Even if you master the controls, the game is still too slow and you still spend more time setting up movements than actually executign said movements, which feels horrible. Said movements are also way too floaty, unprecise and buggy

>>9379741
>She's taking breaks because she's struggling to push a giant rock. She's not The Hulk.
>muh realism in a game like that
in that case she couldn't push it at all, they could also just make it empty inside or out of wood

>>9379748
>unresponsive
That’s because you played the bugged console version on underpowered hardware that chugs even in her home despite it having the lowest draw distance of all platforms it was available on. It is unironically a cpu speed issue. Hell, even turning her side to side is slower on the PlayStation

Oh geez guys we've got a fricking genius here to tell us that one of the oldest 3d games ever made is not completely perfect.

>>9379758
>not completely perfect.
*shit

>>9379758
You don't have to be a Ms. Pac-Man about it.

>>9379758
Watchig the webms, the controls are indefensible even for its time

>>9379730
>>9379741
>thinking fucking Prince of Persia is a paragon of good game design just because journos gave it high scores
Did Eidos really?

>>9379768
>not liking pop
Filtered

>>9379757
Stop pretending the PC version changes the game's logics and awful things like having to run a meter before you can jump or having to position with bad camera before you can make an easy jump even 4channers would be capable of. Not to mention the whole loop of the game and the boring levels

Someone post it.....

>>9379767
Have something on the funny said: My first and only death in the hours I played
Not sure how this is fair or especially how new players are supposed to expect a bear around the corner 50 miles underground
Some footprints would have been nice

>>9379767
>even for its time
Name one full-3D-environment third-person action game that also came out in 1996 that is substantially better. Super Mario 64 is the only thing that actually exists.

>>9379774
>said
side

>>9379776
>answering your own question
And Tomb Raider 3 came out in late 98, by that time many games had much better controls. Just being the first isn't a virtue

>>9379774
Everyone gets assraped by that bear the first time they play that level, he's a hilarious trap.

>>9379772
The best TPS of its gen?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KxhI2xSfTA

>>9379771
Lol. Oh so now the controls being “unresponsive” isn’t the issue and really you just never liked the games in the first place. Opinion noted
>changes the game's logics
And this isn’t what I’m implying, I’m referring to the webm posted earlier about his input getting dropped, assuming the webm was made in good faith and his cerebral palsy hands didn’t release the controls inadvertently. Who knows.

But booba

this is why you should skip 5th gen except the 2d games

>>9379663
Best part of the game.

>>9379783
>really you just never liked the games in the first place.
Why would you? Unironically

>>9379772
Give me 30 minutes...

>>9379657
>Now DKC feels good to play, albeit suffering from its own form of clunkiness compared to newer DK games
?

>>9379780
>Just being the first isn't a virtue
are you retarded?
It's a shit game by historical comparison, but being first for a significant period is absolutely a virtue.
Comparing a 96 game to a 98 game, in a time of frequent industry improvement, practically half of PS1's effective life cycle, and you think that's sound reasoning? Full retard.

>>9379790
Big boobs

>>9379643
one thing I find interesting, playing the 90s raiders, while it has all the problems you mention, the platforming feels substantial in a way I'm not sure modern post 5th gen analog control can replicate without going full mario. In every game I've played since of somewhat realistic human performing somewhat realistic jumps, it's pretty much trivial without some gimmick inserted. on a somewhat related note the fixed angles in the classic re games and the slight lag when switching to a new screen, made probably completely rudimentary hallways you wouldn't think twice about much larger in your mind.

>>9379790
Because it's a fun action platformer/dungeon crawler.

>>9379657
>One thing I noticed that makes it feel so clunky and frustrating is that you can't jump as soon as you start running (see webm), you have to make 2-3 steps first. You can test it yourself easily because the game buffers your jump input. Presumably they wanted it to be one fluid realistic animation and didn't know any better or just didn't want to bother animating all the possible cancels jump angles. However, keep in mind it came out in the same year games like SM64 already perfected 3D controls

Use the walk button and Lara will come to a complete stop at any high ledge.

Tomb Raider is in the uniqe position where it may as well be one of the first 3rd person 3D action games. Granted, Mario 64 beat it out to market, by a few months. But Tomb Raider was in development in paralelle with Mario 64. The original Tomb Raider does have a bit of a free pass on the not so perfect camera, and some of its other issues. But overall, the game was playable, especially on a keyboard, when using a PC. This, and Shadows of the Empire on the N64 are some of the earliest 3D 3rd person action platformers that I can think of. Tomb Raider was a big hig across multiple platforms, because there wasn't really anything else like it. That even went for the PC. My first playthrough of the game was the Saturn version. But later found a PC/ DOS version for nothing.

>>9379663
tutorial gets my hard seeing lara work out in those sweat pants

>>9379774
>how new players are supposed to expect a bear around the corner
i envy you so much. i only wish i hadnt known game from inside out to experience moments like this blind again

>>9379805
This >>9379646 >>9379657 >>9379660 isn't fun and that's the main game

>>9379657
>you have to make 2-3 steps first
you never played tutorial

>>9379802
>but being first for a significant period is absolutely a virtue.
Not if what you are doing isn't very good, I would say. We aren't talking about 0s and 1s and making fire or making the wheel round

>>9379830
Even in the 90s people quickly became disillusioned with TR, no one cared for 3

>>9379825
You spend minutes pushing blocks versus the hours you spend platforming/exploring/fighting throughout the game. If you don't like the way Lara handles then that's on you.

>>9379830
>first car only reached 10 mph
>first flight only went 120 ft
>first atomic bomb only had a yield of 15 kilotons
>first PC only had 256 bytes of memory
Yeah, what a bunch of steaming piles of shit, no virtue among firsts.

>>9379832
>platforming/exploring/fighting throughout the game.
That's not much better in this game

>>9379846
>>first car only reached 10 mph
>thinks Tomb Raider is the first actual car and not the board with three pineapples as wheels

>>9379646
And all the years snoy ponies made fun of Zelda for doing this

>>9379741
>She's taking breaks because she's struggling to push a giant rock. She's not The Hulk.
Then maybe make her one. Why make her a weak woman if it makes the game worse? lol

>>9379825
>can’t be bothered to play the tutorial
>pushing a block for 1 minute is just UGHHHH
you are the reason modern gaming is holding down forward and pressing another button every 10 minutes from one cutscene to the next

>>9379858
>thinks pineapple car sucks
>spends 25 years thinking about pineapple car

>>9379865
>holding down forward and pressing another button every 10 minutes from one cutscene to the next
So like Tomb Raider (1996) then?

It's no MediEvil

It's no Dracula 2: The Last Sanctuary

>>9379657
>>9379660
Fucking lol at that play.
You're shit, or your controller contacts need a good cleaning.

>>9379872
And despite that you somehow managed to die repeatedly

>>9379820
>Use the walk button and Lara will come to a complete stop at any high ledge.
Something that should've already been outdated back then because of analog controls. Interestingly enough even 2 and 3 do this despite the Dual Shock already being on the market. Really zero improvement there

>>9379917
>ps1 tomb raider
>analog stick controls
This is the kind of dumb shit that's said by kids who've only seen the past through a wiki lens.

>>9379935
I have no idea what your point is

>>9379861
I will now buy your game

>>9379904
Not me playing, you can watch any Youtube video and the game is still way too clunky. Not saying terrible, but I don't see this game as a must play at all. Unironically maybe if Lara was a robot and the whole style of the game a bit different, this would still make the gameplay charming today. Also, it's not my fault Lara randomly stops grabbing the edge sometimes. Google shows me that most Tomb Raider games suffer from this and similar problems

>>9379793
Long jumps aren't physics based in the OG trilogy, you must use the run button which somehow makes your jumps broader even when you aren't moving. Makes rolling/attacking less accessible too. Not a huge deal but something the non-/vr/ games did just better with buttons to spare

>>9379917
>Something that should've already been outdated back then because of analog controls.

Alalog controls weren;t an option for the Ps1 in 1996. The first Dual Analouge PS1 pad came out in early 1997, followed by the Dual Shock. Tomb Raider was a multi-platform release for 32bit consoles and DOS PC and released in October 1996, only the Saturn had a 3D analouge controller that year and it was bundled with NiGHTS. Outside of the N64 which launched in September 1996. PC didn't have analouge gamepads for something like Tomb Raider. It had analouge sticks for flight sims and mech sims. But Analouge controls were not an option when Tomb Raider was in development, and was barely an option in 1996. Tomb Raider 2 and 3, though. But it seems like they wanted to keep the established control scheme for the Ps1 era games.

>>9379945
No one forced them to make a game like that for PS1 when it has the least favorable controller for it
> Ps1 era games.
There are many PS1 games that don't have ass controls like that

>>9379945
>Tomb Raider 2 and 3, though.
Then stop blaming the release date or circumstances when it's clearly the developers lacking the motivation and vision for something better, as shown by 2 and especially 3

>>9379784
those torpedotits aren't even hot

Kek Snoy trannies think tomb raider can beat Super Mario 64. Laura controls like a dog turd

>>9379943
>Google shows me that most Tomb Raider games suffer from this
Undesirable things start happening when system resources get maxed out because consoles don’t run on magic

>>9379938
You'll understand when you're older.

>>9379657
>running jump for a platform one space away
what was their endgame?

>>9379993
They tried to think too logically for a shitty game

Time constraints isn't even a good argument. It can explain why we put up with the game back in the day but it doesn't make the game more fun today
>play game
>worse game design than a million games today
>Someone says: "Better just wasn't possible when it was made"
>me: "Oh, okay this is awesome, loving it"
This is not how it works

>>9380010
Who the fuck is even saying it's a good game regardless of its place in history?
There are like 10 posts ITT:
>it was was good game for the time
>but much better was available soon after
Then some retard responds with
>ah-HA!
>you clearly said it was a "good game"
>when
>in fact
>there are clearly many much better games!
OP is obviously retarded for needing anonymous internet validation to enjoy vidya, but why do you need to be a double retard?

>>9379954
>Then stop blaming the release date or circumstances

What else would you blame it on? Analoug controls were not a standard in 1996,the N64 launched in June 1996 in Japan and September 1996 in NA. NOA released half a dozen N64 titles in 1996. The Saturn 3D pad debuted with NiGHTS, and the pad itself was also sold seperatly. It Didn't gain the biggest userbase. Tomb Raider came out in oct-november 1996. Tomb raider was late 1996. Sony dual analoug pad was early 1997. A wide variety of PS1 3D/ platformer games supported the d-pad by default.

>>9380029
Tomb Raider is a good game though, OP is just too much a retarded zoomer for it.

>>9380029
>Who the fuck is even saying it's a good game regardless of its place in history?
This >>9380046 nig

Even as a kid I knew it was cringy normalfag bait for people who have Playboy posters on their wall and watch every football game. The only thing I liked was the gunplay which feels like it inspired DMC.

>>9379643
yea ok, casual.
TR is a must-play game

itt: nintendo babies confused by games like flashback and PoP with deliberately slow and realistic platforming
nice read

>>9380140
The brodudes thought playing as a girl was gay. That’s really just a outside-looking-in surface level opinion since most normalfags would get filtered the same way op did. A puzzle focused platformer with combat just there for style was actually not the most appealing thing to most people.

>>9379660
>There are also collision bugs like Lara randomly falling after grabbing a ledge
I've played the PC version and Saturn version in full with a lot of messing about with the PS1 version as a kid and I've NEVER had this.
If you haven't I strongly advise playing Lara's Home, paying attention to what she says and getting and idea on what gaps need what jump.

>>9380195
obsolete shovelware compared to super Mario 64, banjo kazooie and DK64

>>9380140
Football is so fucking gay

>>9380245
>anon cannot wrap his bing bing wahoo’d mind around controls more complex than that suited for a child
>and he relishes in this fact

>>9379646
>nnnnnooooooo why does this small woman take so long to push a giant block of concrete who dare the developers animate this like it's heavy and not a concrete colored cardboard box

Just play a game for zoomers, then

>>9380292
See >>9379753 and >>9379861

>>9380202
>The brodudes thought playing as a girl was gay.
Zoomer or no friends? Every normie fag played it and it was cool to play it because she was le sex bomb

>>9380195
>realistic
People don't actually move like 1977 Atari tanks.

OP is probably trying to use the analog stick to play.

>>9380187
>casual
Tomb Raider is so casual and mainstream this is some self-induced gaslighting if I've seen it. Being awful to play doesn't make Superman 64 hardcore

>>9380341
Lara is first and foremost ATHLETIC

>>9380345
Those people were just Lara fans, not tomb raider fans. I sincerely doubt most of them played through 3 aside from loading her home or the first level to look at her boobs.

>>9379959
Not being a tranime shit game made by bug people already puts Tomb Raider above any bing bing wahoo, cope you tranime watching faggot.

>>9380510
Just because you can avoid bans doesn't mean you must make every post sound like Eric Cartman typed it

I thought /vr/ was a place where quality discussion was compulsory. Why hasn't this thread been nuked?

>>9380245
Don't compare other platformers to trash like DK64.

>>9379643
What I'm saying for decades. It's not 'outdated', it was never great.

>auster troon seething because it's one of the few brit games respected here and have a general instead of his precious amiga shit
Wew lad

>>9380689
Was.
Not is.

>>9379660
I see only a bad player, not bad controls.

>>9379643
FILTRADO

>>9379647
man its been ages since I've seen cranky advice

>>9380870
The city of cope.

I will just say, that the Sega Saturn Tomb Raider was the first Tomb Raider game that I ever played. To be honest, I was blown away by how good this game looked on the Saturn hardware. I still think it is the best looking 3D platformer on the Saturn, which is a dissapointing thing to say, given how few 3D platformers the system had. Chunkier than the PS1 game. But, I could play it all the way to the end. I loved the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98m2DmMwFps

Tomb Raider 2 probably would have happened for the Saturn, but Sony money hatted Core for console exclusitivity. Sony actually featured Lara Croft in their adverting, too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXSTAj9tlhE

>>9379643
>Anon, based on your wall of text it seems that your unhealthy fascination with sexy robot girls and your consequent sexual frustration is causing you to "act out" in public settings. Specifically, you seem to enjoy making statements that you know will infuriate or aggravate others, regardless of whether they make sense. I think it will be best if our therapy sessions focus on finding more healthy ways to express yourself. In the meantime, I suggest you be consistent in taking the medicine that the doctors have prescribed you."

>>9379758
Just another in a long line of demoralizing campaigns meant to make us think our childhoods were shit and everything now is awful so we'll be more like to swing right in an effort to bring back some fake 'everything was perfect and everyone was happy' time that never existed.

>>9380368
>Tomb Raider is so casual
You didn’t play the games past Peru let alone beat 3 without a guide.

>Ctrl+F
>Only 1 result for adventure

It's a fucking platform adventure game with some gunplay for the horny teenagers they marketed to. It's pitfall with pistols. What inane shit is in this thread? You have a problem with precise platforming and pushing boxes? That's a not a criticism of pacing in a game that's supposed to be slow. Just play quake if you want to jump around fast.

I swear you guys think there was always only two genres: open world, and muh soulsbornelikeroguecollectathon.

>>9379643
The trick is to use the D-pad instead of the stick. Once you'e gotten the hang of that, it controls easily.

And yeah the first one is very crude design-wise, but it was an entirely new concept, so that's expected.

>>9380848
Tank controls in an action adventure/parkour/platform game are bad, and you are retarded.

>>9383807
>I can't deal with it so it's BAD!!!!!!!!!!!!
Filtered

>>9379643
I actually went back to finish it and the extra levels earlier this year. The controls really kills it, which is a shame since the large and ambitious levels as well at the atmosphere are quite something. Then started with the second one and dropped it after the first level since they used tons of poorly lit rooms just to force you to use their shitty new feature and the level design was utter bullshit.

>>9379670
it is becose you dont have enemy you must find your way out

The controls are very precise, doesn't get better than that. I saw someone post Medievil in this thread and that's a clusterfuck of a game in controls only (still a good game overall)

The webms posted just show a general lack of understanding of the game possibilities. I advise to fuck around in the tutorial for a while and getting the grasp of what you can and can't do

>>9380249
Found the Billy No Mates.

>>9379643
Seriously, to all the people who complain about Tomb Raider's controls, did you play the fucking tutorial level? The one that's supposed to get you used to them?

>>9383807
Diagonals exist, you know.

>>9379650
>pushing boxes for two minutes
you probably play games where 90% of the time you're pushing the joystick forward in le immersive and deep real time cutscene

>>9385412
Which is 1000x more enjoyable than pushing boxes around.

>>9379643
It was one of the early 3d-games that did 3d relatively well. I was never a huge fan though, too adventure-gamey to me.

>>9385435
ADHD.

>>9385456
Stop abusing benzos.

>>9379643
People like you are the reason any kind of acrobatic movement in modern games is 90% automated and full of assists and magnetism.

So just like Tenchu

>>9379643
>>9379646
>>9379657
>>9379660
>>9379714
>>9379740
>>9379748
>>9379750
>>9379767
>>9379825
>>9379831
>>9379847
>>9379943
>>9380002
>>9380245
>>9383807
>>9385330
>>9385472
>this level of copium from tranime faggot weebs

Yikes. It's widely known that Tomb Raider's controls are far more precise and perfect than anything in Mario. Players are able to accurately and succinctly time and predict their own blind playthroughs, without resorting to walling glitches to get through "impossible" sections like Mario 64, and if they get lost, they can easily find their way through it based on the mathematics involved in how precise the games environments are made.

In other words, you have no idea what you are talking about and need to git gud, as everyone can tell you have little to no adaptive skills in learning how controls work. What's next, going to complain that King's Quest controls differently from Mario too, you fucking retarded zoomer? It's a different genre, kiddo, learn to play how that genre plays, or get the fuck out and quit bitching. Lara's "realistic action-adventure platforming controls" were a precursor to the modern uncharted series where you have character's that jump in a limited manner, that slip and slide over the environment if they change direction while running, and which bump into the environment realistically.

Now you're going to run off, upset that you've been called out, and refuse to acknowledge your own failures, angry at a video game who's success you cannot change, and who's legacy you cannot change, all because you couldn't learn to adjust your patience. How sad is that? Meanwhile us Tomb Raider-chads are going to be sipping Lara's sweat squeezed from her ass-tight shorts from warm mugs and eating crumpets.

>>9386092
tomb raiders controls are not precise, they are dog shit slow and clunky. Different genre is not an excuse for dog turd controls. You are just an old angry boomer that cannot accept Nintendo won.

>>9379643
>be normie
>hates /vr/ but tries to play for clout
>gets unavoidably filtered
>makes butthurt thread seething
Many such cases.

>>9386092
Literally the first post shows you how needlessly slow and clunky the game plays >>9379646

>>9386137
>that cannot accept Nintendo LOST

FTFY

>>9386154
>Retard lets go of the Grab button causing it to take longer to push the block than it normally should

How is that the game's fault?

>>9379643
>we're just supposed to think a whore's greed and wanderlust is worth 1000 dead wolves, bears and other animals...?
Yes.

The OG TR is a dated game with dated controls If you weren't there when it was released you just wont get its appeal.
Soul reaver gets no end of dick sucking yet TR is leagues ahead in its controls, gameplay, and enviroment.
In fact Soul Reaver is one of the most overhyped piles of shit ever and bored me to tears with its awful controls, awful platforming, and its clunky mind-numbing combat, the only thing it had going for it was its puzzles

>>9386137
How we can tell you've never touched the games. So pathetic

>>9386316
>yet TR is leagues ahead in its controls, gameplay, and enviroment.
I could see an argument for it being better but in those categories leagues ahead is giving it way too much credit.

is this another auster-kun cope thread?

How many times must this be said? The controls are based on the original PS1 controlled which DID NOT include the analog stick, and just used the D-pad. When you use just the D-pad for controlling her, it's easy and not over-sensitive or anything.

>>9386139

I am not against interactive cut scenes, sometimes they can do a lot to help immersion in a game. But Tomb Raider 2 clip, really shows how much mastery of the controls were required to get through the game. There are spiked walls that close in on the player, there are blades that try to stop the player in their paths. There are falling floor boards everywhere. Followed by a slanted area that you have to slide down, and avoid another spiked wall. Followed by giant rolling wheels. That was the norm for the classic Tomb Raider games. Those games were basically: "master the controls, or get fucked in our multiple death traps". It is a 3D version of a cinematic platformer. Watching that webm, just makes me want to play Tomb Raider 2.

>>9386154
I agree block pushing could have simply been made faster or something. But I don’t understand why you’re acting like slow block pushing puzzles were a tomb raider exclusive feature when they were virtually all over the place in many games. And people always hated them wherever they appeared. Having said that, there are much worse block puzzles in other games. In TR they mostly amount to getting one or two blocks out of the way to reveal a hidden room or create a path, in other games they end up being a sadistic slider puzzle. The only time TR went this far was one instance in 3

The hardest part of getting into Tomb Raider for me was un-learning Mario 64. If you try to play it like that (and I did) you're gonna have a bad time (like I did). It's a good game if you're able and willing to adapt to its playstyle. I won't defend the combat though, that is all around terrible and the game would be better as a pure puzzle platformer, but I guess a game with no combat whatsoever would've been harder to market, and Lara looks cool as hell holding two guns in promo stills so I guess she needed to have something to shoot in game.

>>9386092
>Now you're going to run off, upset that you've been called out, and refuse to acknowledge your own failures, angry at a video game who's success you cannot change, and who's legacy you cannot change, all because you couldn't learn to adjust your patience. How sad is that? Meanwhile us Tomb Raider-chads are going to be sipping Lara's sweat squeezed from her ass-tight shorts from warm mugs and eating crumpets.

>blown the fuck out so hard he greentexts the post that blew him out with the chud face without actually arguing anything
okretard

>>9386092
I've never heard anyone praise Tomb Raider in person. You must be a eurofag. Go stick you're wee peccy in a Speccy because I've never heard of anyone needing glitches to beat Mario 64 their first time, or call their controls less precise than Tomb Raider either.

>>9386092
>It's widely known that Tomb Raider's controls are far more precise and perfect than anything in Mario
lol

>>9386092
Was this supposed to look good?

>>9387598
>lol
Prove him wrong. You can't.

>>9387609

>>9387609
>Prove him wrong.
I've played both and it's fairly obvious.

>>9387613
You realize that speedrun is impressive specifically because Mario 64 has sloppy controls and fucked up camera angles, right?

>>9387617
Literally what the fuck are you talking about? The reason you can even speedrun Mario 64 like that and the reason it's so popular even to this day is due to how good and responsive the controls are.
You're living in a fucking fantasy world you're making up. That or just being a retarded shitter looking to troll

>>9387617
Tomb Raider's controls are sloppy and stiff as all hell. It makes the games really not fun to play.

>>9386092
I'm literally playing both right now and you are retarded. For the mere reason that you need extra button presses in Tomb Raider to even walk while Mario has perfectly functional analog controls with fluid transitions

It's a shitty Western game made by three coomers

>>9387613
>in the time you do all this you would have jumped two platforms in Tomb Raider

>>9387623
>The reason you can even speedrun Mario 64 like that and the reason it's so popular even to this day is due to how good and responsive the controls are.
Holy shit, imagine being this retarded. Mario 64 speedrunning is popular because the imprecise controls and camera make speedrunning it an inherently impressive feat. Meanwhile the controls and camera in Tomb Raider are so precise that speedrunning it isn't very difficult or impressive. Do you even understand the webm you posted?

>>9387625
>Tomb Raider's controls are sloppy
If you have trouble landing jumps and grabbing ledges in TR you're either clinically blind or clinically retarded.

>>9387646
I have trouble enjoying such bad controls.

>>9387641
>Meanwhile the controls and camera in Tomb Raider are so precise that speedrunning it isn't very difficult or impressive
More like nobody wants to play a game that controls so poorly that it's extremely restrictive in how you can play it.

>>9387648
Let me guess, Anon. You're so bad at video games you actually die trying to navigate the levels in Tomb Raider so you're blaming the movement controls even though they're 100% precise and any error is purely the player's fault.

>>9387650
Explain how the TR controls are inaccurate. Come on, give me a laugh.

>>9387641
>imprecise controls
Mario doesn't control as tight as in newer games and has less air control but the M64 controls and also camera are not only a generation ahead of PS1 but even some PS2 games like Kingdom Hearts
It's hilarious that a Playstation fanboy even wants to linger on this topic when so many PS1 games are marred by the d-pad controls, even some of my favorites like Tony Hawk 2, which is why I just recommend people to play the sequels instead
>those shitty school bell challenges

>>9387661
The controls are just too stiff and restrictive to be any fun. You can't just play intuitively like a well designed game, you need to line up every jump ahead of time and play exactly the way the developers planned everything out in advance. That's not fun or good.

>>9387641
>Mario 64 speedrunning is popular because the imprecise controls and camera make speedrunning it an inherently impressive feat.
No????
You're fucking delusional

>>9387661
>Explain how the TR controls are inaccurate. Come on, give me a laugh.
>>9379657
All of what he says and the tank controls in the videos and the fact it doesn't support analogue controls so it, by definition, can't be as precise as Mario. It's either 0% speed or 100% speed

>>9387665
>Playstation fanboy
Why are you bringing up the Playstation? Wait, are you actually so retarded and underage that you think Tomb Raider was a Playstation exclusive?

>>9387667
>The controls are just too stiff and restrictive to be any fun.
I asked how the controls are "sloppy". Looks like you're at a loss to explain.

>>9387668
So you think Mario 64 speedrunning is easy? Anon, you need to stop sniffing glue. It's killing your braincells.

>>9387669
>it doesn't support analogue controls so it, by definition, can't be as precise as Mario.
>It's either 0% speed or 100% speed
Either 0% or 100% with nothing in between is extremely precise. You're confusing precision with range, brainlet.

>>9379643
>>weakly structured progression, *beat* a tomb and you just spawn in the next one like in some 80s MUD
pretty sure there were FMV/CGI cutscenes between levels

>>9387678
>So you think Mario 64 speedrunning is easy
What the fuck are YOU smoking? The reason these things are possible is that the movement is so good. It has nothing to do with rather or not it's 'hard'.

>>9387678
>I asked how the controls are "sloppy"
Look at that this guy's webm: >>9379657 the way he soars over the platform because he didn't lineup the jump in the completely illogical way of standing as far away from the ledge as possible and jump from a complete standstill is just bad and sloppy.

>>9387689
>pretending high level Mario 64 speedrunning isn't hard
kek. I've backed you into a corner and now you have to admit Mario 64 speedrunning is impressive because the controls are sloppy. It's like performing brain surgery while wearing boxing gloves. Checkmate.

>>9387692
>standing as far away from the ledge as possible and jump from a complete standstill
Doing that will get you killed in Tomb Raider. No wonder it kicks your ass. You're so retarded you don't even understand how to line up jumps.

>>9387706
>Doing that will get you killed in Tomb Raider.
Ahem: >>9379993

>>9387613
How many A presses is this?

>>9379657
stop trying to play tomb raider like it was mario, you nigger
tomb raider is not mario
play it like tomb raider

>dopamine receptors burned out on bing bing wahoo
>can't understand why different genres play differently

>>9387707
Standing that far back isn't necessary and it's a mystery why the faggot who recorded the webm did it. The fact is that standing as far away from a ledge as possible and jumping from a standstill is retarded and will get you killed 99% of the time. Sorry for being a little hyperbolic and implying it was 100% of the time, Anon.

And you wonder why people hate Nintendo fans. Utterly obnoxious. On the other hand I played Tomb Raider for the first time this year and it was an excellent game.

>>9387719
Tomb raider is a dog turd relic and mario 64 remains the undisputed king of 3d platformers. Your snoy tears are delicious

>>9387759
>snoy
this is a multi-platform game, child. snoystation was probably the worst one to play it on anyway.

>>9387759
Tomb Raider and Mario 64 are very different but equally good and equally historically significant. You only hate TR because you're an actual homosexual who can't stand looking at a woman's ass. Only a fat cartoon plumber can give you a chubby. You pathetic freak.

>>9387724
The Cistern, is this where you realized the game was a masterpiece?

>>9387789
Tomb Raider is a game that appealed to nongamers in the 90s just like the 3D GTAs appealed to the same crowed the following console generation. And in both cases the games have just not aged well.

>>9387798
"Non-gamers" didn't exist in 1996, zoomer. Either you were in to video games or you weren't and being in to video games wasn't cool. Normies weren't using it as a trendy status symbol yet.

>>9387798
The only reason it “appealed” to them was because they look at the cover and thought the game must literally be about guns and boobs, only to get it home and find out it was a slow paced platformer with a heavy focus on puzzles and look before you leap mentality. The non gamers that got baited into buying it were usually the first to get filtered out as evidenced by this thread. The fact you would even make a comparison to gta makes me think you’ve never even played them yourself

>>9387807
nah gamers played mario 64 while normies played tomb raider because of polygon tits

>>9387812
I compared them to GTA because they both appeal to people who don't care about good gameplay.

>>9387813
Yeah you weren’t alive then lol. Everyone and their mother played Mario

>>9387817
Just because you're too retarded to play Tomb Raider that doesn't make it's gameplay bad, Anon.

>>9387824
The terrible controls are what makes the gameplay bad.

>>9387719
Underrated

>>9386092
Based

>>9387721
I'm the faggot who made that webm.
I did a standing jump from that spot because that's about where the anon I replied to started their jog off the ledge. It was to demonstrate what could have been done differently.
Ideally they should have walked to the edge to gauge the distance better, or done the basic technique of backing up to the wall to give themselves enough space to run, but whatever it's only their second level. It's a shame they went on 4chan to bitch instead of becoming a better player for having learned their lesson from falling and just carrying on with the game.
Also as long as you take at least one step forwards from the back of the space you're on, 100% of the time you will survive a straight standing jump to grab an edge that is 1 space forwards and 1 space up

>>9387829
Just sounds like a filtered faggot to me

>>9388408
Where's the double jump?

>>9387796
>masterpiece
kek

>>9388408
How proud you are of 2 consecutive jumps accents how bad the playability is. This webm feels like the equivalent of making fire for the first time

>>9388570
Wait till you see the scrub-filtering room in Palace Midas that requires four consecutive jumps.
That shit will blow your mind if you think Tomb Raider has to played robotically.

>>9379774
You relaxed.

Wow, this thread really is just one guy getting hard filtered by a game for children.

>>9387697
>because the controls are sloppy.
No, retard. It's because the movements are so good that you can do crazy wall platforming and stuff.
How are you THIS thick??

>>9388603
shut the fuck up

>>9388596
The games are played robotically though.

These kinds of threads don't come around very often, gotta love a good BTFOing of Nintendo fans. For all their expertise and training in their Nintendo hard games they sure don't know shit and suck dick at video games.

>>9388606
this anon got zapped

>>9388613
It's not like the TR games are hard. It's just once you've experienced something better (any other 3D platformer ever made) it's hard to accept such bad controls.

>>9388616
They control excellently, you aren't trained well enough and are taking it out on the game when the problem lies with you. My mom beat Tomb Raider, surely you can too.

>>9379646
why are you grabbing the block and letting go? you're so bad

git gud faggot

>>9388596
I wonder why it filters scrubs. Maybe because of the controls?

>>9388616
I didn't play the original Tomb Raiders until very recently, and I thought they were great.
Once you learn to accept that different games play differently, you'll have a much better time in general.

>>9388618
>They control excellently
You're constantly battling with the shitty controls which is not fun.
>>9388621
Only in TR is running down a literal hallway considered impressive.

>>9388621
>Crash Bandicoot but in slow motion
She isn't even a cute tomb raider either

>>9388621
>level looks extremely easy
>but it's hard
Hmmm I wonder what the reason could be

>>9388638
non-baby controls?

>>9388629
The controls are great, you're battling yourself and failing to accept that you're the shortcoming in the equation. Fix yourself. Don't let the game beat you. You have to beat it.

do you think OP could do this?

>>9388642
>The controls are great
The spike trap in that webm is literally only going to kill the player if they can't line up the character with the item and press the action button in time. Considering how bad the controls are that is a very real possibility. Good developers would just make it so the item is collected when you walk over it or at the very least not put in a slow as shit pickup animation and then use that against the player.

>>9388650
QTE levels of interaction.

>>9388651
The item is optional ;) I'm gonna blow your mind:
Tomb Raider has more precise controls than Mario 64.

It's so hard to learn new controls for OP! How do you think he handles tank controls? lol

>be OP
>boot up ridge racer
>there's no coins
>not even an analog stick
>my car can't triple jump
>give up and make a thread on /vr/
>mfw people call me "filtered"

>>9388658
Who cares if they're ""precise"" if they suck so bad running down a hallway is the peak of challenge?

>>9388661
Completely scripted preplanned interactions, real mindblowing stuff.

>>9387796
Yes, the instant it opened up and was a multi layered level in which I could tackle the challenges in any order and the usage of all of my skills really engrossed me. Then after that it was level after level in which you had an environment and figured out where to go to with your move set and explore the level. I really enjoyed the 6th generation PoP:SoT game for the same reasons and I'm glad there are other platformers that take into account the exploration part of platforming, especially in more realistic environments rather than something more abstract.

>>9388663
Lets see you do it, make sure to post a webm showing how good you are.

>>9388654
>>9388664
Hmm, sounds easy.
Why can't you figure it out then?

>>9388672
That really is the peak of challenge in TR? I was being sarcastic but damn I guess it makes sense with controls that shitty.
>>9388675
What I can't figure out is why someone would consider this good gameplay.

>>9387813

ah yes 1996 when you were 5 months old

>>9388678
So you can't do it?

>>9388678
Stick to modern "games" they were made for you.

>>9388689
>heavily scripted interactions
The more things change the more they stay the same.

Lara is simply a less powerful and fantastic character than Mario; you just want an experience where you can do everything you want to do without the world and character of the game getting in the way. You just want to consume the thing.

and that's fine to want that, just call it what it is: an easier game. It's no coincidence that any improvement you offer would be a flat nerf to the game's difficulty.

>>9388693
To me video games can be so much more than collecting coins.

>>9388695
They can be struggling to run down a hallway because of bad controls instead.

>>9388703
Sounds like a personal failure, maybe you need to practice? That's only the first level after all.

>>9388705
I'm not the one who posted it as the ultimate challenge in the game.

>>9388703
just admit that the fix to making the hallway easy is to be playing as a character that moves faster and jumps higher.

because that's all you're saying: the hallway SHOULD be easy, but IS NOT. why should it be? Because the protagonist in your eyes should be stronger! Because being lara makes you feel WEAK!

>>9388706
Surely you can beat level 1 anon, even my mom did. Is she a better gamer than you?

>>9388705
OP wants to win NOW like he did in Bob-omb Battlefield on his first try!

>>9388707
>just admit that the fix to making the hallway easy is to be playing as a character that moves faster and jumps higher.
Or one that just doesn't control like shit. That would be a good start, then maybe running down a hallway wouldn't be a herculean task.
>>9388712
>more scripted setpieces

>>9388709
if your mother was able to play without screeching about how the game is cheating her than she is a better gamer than 95% of /vr/

>>9388715
>Or one that just doesn't control like shit.

See! You dodged my question because I pinned you, dipshit!

Whether a game controls like shit to you is entirely dependent on how strong the character is! That's why Mario is good and Lara makes you feel weak

>>9388678
>why someone would consider this good gameplay
Tomb Raider is a hybrid of action, puzzle and platforming. Every part of the gameplay involves two out of those three things.
These webms >>9388650 >>9388661 are likely made by someone very familiar with the rooms, so it doesn't show the enjoyable aspect of puzzling out the best approach, but still maintains the satisfaction of performing the required platforming.

However, if the player has the same room temperature IQ as op, given their demonstrated lack of platforming skills and inability to judge distances, they would consistently fail miserably at both of these rooms and I could imagine how they would rather call the gameplay bad than address their own failings.

>>9388712
you dont even need those doors opened. game gives you the choice to either be really fast and good, or play puzzles and actual game to open shortcut

>>9388720
Does preforming the exact preplanned inputs by the developers even count as platforming skill?

>>9388726
Are you saying Super Meat Boy isn't a platformer? Is that how far your brain is bending?

>>9388731
SMB isn't nearly as linear. It is pretty shitty though and plays like a flash game.

>>9388726
This is every Mario game ever.
Prove me wrong.

>>9388726
1. There's multiple ways to approach those rooms
2. If you look at this blockhead play >>9379657 >>9379660 then yes apparently it is

Lara has such an elegance about her but then a retard like OP gets a hold of her and ruins everything.

>>9388739
>Prove me wrong.
Okay.
>>9388741
>There's multiple ways to approach those rooms
Proof?

>>9388747
>triple jump
>walljump
triple jump
>walljump
Scripted. Developer planned.

>>9388749
What is the point in being so obviously disingenuous?

>>9388753
ditto

>>9388616
You keep saying "bad controls", but it's demonstrably not difficult to access areas the developers want you to go to. The exception being cases where the developer wishes to intentionally challenge the player. In any case, Lara's movements are entirely predictable, and if you fall off a platform, it's always your fault. The controls are extremely precise; if you jump, you'll jump straight forward or up at a fixed height and fixed speed. You won't accidentally jump diagonally by leaning on the stick wrong, you won't jump too slow, and the game is forgiving by allowing you to catch the ledge if you don't quite make it on the platform.

>>9388747
He's just so robotic. The camera is terrible too.

>>9388765
>but it's demonstrably not difficult to access areas the developers want you to go to
Provided you go to those places exactly how the developers wanted you to.

>>9388747
>Proof?
in this webm >>9388650 the last two platforms can be skipped altogether if you keep running and jump from the third platform.

>>9388772
Why not show it being done?

>>9388671
>best level in the game is sewer level
damn

>>9388772
forgot my webm

>>9388780
What about the other room?

>>9388781
I've already made my point

>>9388781
What is the point in being so obviously disingenuous?

>>9388786
>>9388787
>There's multiple ways to approach those rooms
That was one of two rooms.

>>9379643
>>9379646
>>9379657
>>9379660

>>9388791
i would pay him money to see him play tomb raider

>>9388789
Christ you're a cunt.
You can also begin with a backflip too.

>>9388715
>scripted
I wonder if it’s also scripted for op to fail the jump repeatedly

>>9388736
>SMB isn't nearly as linear.

it's a thousand times more linear; That's why I used it as an example. Tomb Raider has puzzles you dingus, it can't be "scripted". It allows room for experimentation and figuring things out rather than being a straight obstacle course.

>>9388792
I'M PRESSING BUH ONS DOOD *SNORT*

>>9388803
Wow you can land on the platform instead of grabbing the ledge. Incredible.

>>9388813
>>9388770
You're talking in a way that provides no evidence of your own positions or detail on your own beliefs. You're just bitching. How can any signposted design in a platformer not be interpreted as "scripted"?

>>9388820
He's just here to be argumentative after being BTFO for his pathetic attempt at criticism. You're dealing with a rabid nintendo fanboy.

>>9388745
So until people play the game normally without cherrypicking and cropping out the positioning

>>9388650
I think a 3 year old could do this

>>9388813
Even though you will never be able to appreciate the great game that is Tomb Raider, I accept your concession in this matter.

>all these webms showing level design literally being tailored to the awful tank controls
>somehow it's supposed to be impressive that the game is functional this way

>>9388842
To grab the ledge or to land on the platform, Tomb Raider really gives the player options.

>>9388780
Fuck that gay shit, I've got it down to two jumps.

Just wait until op discovers the puzzles

>>9388813
>>9388849
Both use different starting points and angles for the first jump, and then different take off points from the second jump.
You wouldn't make it to that level, let alone make it to that room, let alone be able to solve that platforming puzzle despite the multiple possible solutions, so I can understand it going over your head.
It doesn't change the fact that my point was proven and you suck cocks by choice.

>>9388913
The unparalleled interactivity of deciding when to press jump off of a slide to trigger the scripted slide jump animation... twice in a row!

How does it stack up? I haven't played either game.
Also, I just literally found out this has a PC version.

>>9388917
Still going, huh?
It's understandable to be ignorant of a game's mechanics, but it's just sad to be this ignorant about your own behaviour.
It's embarrassing how despite being proven wrong time and again, repeatedly shown that you underestimate the depth of Tomb Raider's puzzle platforming, you're unwilling to admit that you're out of your league in this discussion, and keep coming back for more.

You don't understand how the grid level design system works and how Lara's moves fit into it. If you did you'd realise how a ledge that's blocked off on both sides and stacked on top of an elevated ramp that requires a leap from a ramp on the ground as in pic related, fucks with most of her repertoire of manoeuvrers. The room is an optional secret, rewarding skilled players with extra pick-ups, and designed to confound level-skipping nubs and scrubs.
There's two distinct webms in the thread which show different ways up to that ledge, so what's been claimed to a developer's preplanned inputs, akin to a QTE, has already been disproven. However it goes further than that.
Neither slide is scripted, and the majority of approaches to the first ramp will have her facing the wrong way on the second, not being high enough on the second, or not getting far enough across the second, to make it to the ledge.
It's not just a couple of casual bing bing wahoos with whatever timing and jumping angle you like. It's a test of finesse, which you don't have even a basic level comprehension of.

>>9388408
could've added a sideway jump as well

>>9388650
>quite literally I, Robot gameplay 15 years later
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmvWxG2zvs8
Tomb Raider is such an overrated turd

>>9388603
kek, the truest statement on /vr/ right not

>>9389097
It was only 13 years, dumbass, and I, Robot is based.

>>9387617
Now ask yourself why the """hard""" Tomb Raider levels are impressive

>>9387685
I'm glad you're too old and dumb to become a doctor

>>9386139
At least we all agree that the new games are terrible. Doesn't make 1-3 good, though.

This is a beautiful thread, one guy getting hard filtered by a game preteens were beating without guides or maybe a magazine to help in the mid 90s

>>9388967
Better than Tomb Raider for sure

>>9388856
Why do you believe this is impressive, anon? Could it be because of the garbage controls OP is talking about?

> itt: nintendo buttbabies who can't grasp the fact that Tomb Raider's control scheme is literally Prince of Persia but in 3D, because they were not alive when Prince of Persia was released, and the majority of them probably weren't even alive when Tomb Raider and Mario 64 were released

>>9388671
My favorite section similar to what you described was "that" part of St. Francis Folly. As soon as you walk to the edge and the level just opens up below you, and you see a handful of save crystals scattered around on the giant pillar you know you're gonna be in that area for a while.

I knew what the "sword of Damocles" was when I was a kid, so the first time I played, after sneaking my way through the room on the way in and not having any issues, I was 100% prepared for them to start falling when I was on the way out. I was NOT expecting them to fucking zoom over to where I was standing before falling, that first one got me good.

>>9389141
filtered and malding.

>>9389154
op debunked themselves by posting webms that demonstrated their lack of basic platforming skills.
Don't parrot their lunkhead viewpoint.

>>9389170
How so? The thing that defines 2D Prince of Persia more than anything is weighty jumps and ledge grabbing. What do tank controls have to do with that?

>CTRL f
>30 hits for Nintendo, bing and assorted
Medicine

>>9389254
>op brings up Zelda and sm64
>hurrdurr rentfree

>>9389314
>can't compare games from different consoles otherwise I will spam bing bing bing in your thread

>>9389203
> weighty jumps and ledge grabbing

Friend, have you ever played a Tomb Raider game?

The movement system being based on a grid, specific distances moved when walking or running, specific distances moved after a walking or running jump, etc is all Tomb Raider. Take classic Prince of Persia gameplay and envision it in three dimensions instead of just two and it is literally Tomb Raider.

Fun fact - the dude who created PoP filmed his brother, himself, and some friends doing all of the animations from the game (as well as some additional footage from a stage performance), then rotoscoped the footage frame by frame to add it to the game as the character animations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAjRNU3DbSY

>>9379741
>>9380292
>IT'S REALISTIC
Who the fuck wants to play as a "realistic" woman? You mongrels.

>>9389341
It's not even realistic, she still shoves something she shouldn't be able to move an inch. It's just bad

>>9389332
What part of that entails awkward turning circles though?

>>9388597
underrated

>>9389332
>Take classic Prince of Persia gameplay and envision it in three dimensions instead of just two and it is literally Tomb Raider.
What's fun in 2D doesn't have to be fun in 3D. Also PoP was essentially a game for graphics whores, the most popular 2D games and also today's 2D renaissance shows that no one likes games with slow, finicky controls like that

>>9389378
It didn't even work well in 2D, the protag is a shuffling slippy mess, it's like the ground is banana peels everywhere

>>9389378
You seem like the kind of kid who is attracted to loud noises and bright, rapidly flashing colors.

>>9389378
>meanwhile in reality Another World gets an Anniversary release that is so popular it gets rereleased physically on consoles, through actual retailers nonetheless not that Limited Run memeshit

>>9389395
I just prefer the kind of controls that won through and that 99% of people prefer

>>9389398
Another World actually goes all in and doesn't try to be a normal action adventure or platformer. It's an "experience" kind of game and actually good at that. Something crazy happens every 20 seconds

>>9389394
>have to crouch like a retard frog every time you want to be precise

>>9389332

And then in 1999 there was a Prince of Persia 3D made by Mindscape and released for Windows 9x and the Dreamcast... and what a shocker... it was a Tomb Raider clone. And to be honest, is a pretty forgotten 3D platformer that had middling reviews. Tomb Raider did take inspiration from the original Prince of Persia. PoP was the game that basically created the cinematic platformer genre. Years after the success of Tomb Raider Prince of persia comes back full circle as a Tomb Raider knock off... that doesn't play as well as any of the OG Tomb Raiders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrzJea-YCJw

>>9389423
How doesn't it play as well? Looks the same if not better. I think by the time it was released people just got used to better controls

>>9389442
>How doesn't it play as well? Looks the same if not better. I think by the time it was released people just got used to better controls

To be honest, I remember playing the demo for the PC game a long time ago. Never really got into it. It played fine for a Tomb Raider clone. PoP does add some stealth elements too. But, the game itself didn't have the most memorable level design. It might be worth a playthrough. Never played the Dreamcast game, even though I owned a Dreamcast. Tomb Raider Chronicles and The Last Revelation are also on the Dreamcast too. Those are straight ports of the PC games, using WindowsCE.

Also, 3DRealms got on the Tomb raider band wagon with Duke Nukem : Time To Kill for the PSX. A game that never tried to hide its' Tomb raider influence, but adds more guns, and Jon St. John wisecracks. I kinda liked this more than POP3D.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xQKI9sQZ64

Time To Kill also has a sequel on the PSX called Duke Nukem: Land of the Babes, which IMO, kinda sucked. I liked Time to Kill more.

>>9389423
And since then........companies stopped making these awful games almost like gameplay evolved and no one wants this garbage anymore. Wow!

You know your game is shit when you have to hide behind Prince of Persia of all games.

>>9379643
>This is not a game you must have played
what kind of a fucking sentence is this?

>>9389479
Are you Algerian? It means playing it isn't worth it

>>9389468
>And since then........companies stopped making these awful games almost like gameplay evolved and no one wants this garbage anymore. Wow!

It still made sense to make Tomb raider style 3D platformers for the PC, as there was no definitive way to control a player with analog controls. yes, of course the mouse. But Mouse was never good for actual analog movement, only look/ turning. As most PC games either used the arrow keys or WASD. Sure there were analog gamepads for the PC, but they weren't wide spread. Devs would mostly aim for the controls that every PC owner had, a keyboard and a mouse. Prince of Persia really was geared more for the PC.

>>9389482
Then you should've said "this game is not a must play" you retarded ESL nigger

>>9389485
Based 90 IQ poster

>>9389489
learn how to write, you dumb foreignshit

>>9389468
>almost like gameplay evolved and no one wants this garbage anymore.
>Fag is unaware of the hundrerds, if not thousands of fan made mod maps and even full games

You're an idiot. What a surprise!

>>9389401
>I just prefer the kind of controls that won through and that 99% of people prefer

I wish you would prefer learning how to speak English.

>>9389497
There are always enthusiasts and nostalgiafags, doesn't change most people have higher standards now

>>9389332
this looks like it plays like absolute donkey shit

>>9389525
>have higher standards now
God, you're not only stupid, you're fucking moronic

>>9389529
Those are synonyms, handicapped retard

>>9389525
Videogames are literally going backwards in quality, and have been doing so for quiet a while. If anything standards are dropping like a rock and the industry is following along to save money.

>>9389468
>And since then........companies stopped making these awful games almost like gameplay evolved and no one wants this garbage anymore. Wow!

I would say that this kind of 3D platformer died with the release of the PS2. Why? Because the PS2 has the Dual Shock 2 as the default controller. The Dual Shock 1 on the PS1 was never the default control scheme except for a few games like Ape Escape. It was generally optional. The five TR PS1 games all revolved around digital movement. Crystal Dynamics Tomb Raider games from the PS2 era moved to the analog control scheme.

>>9389532
By now I obviously mean now that games evolved past shit controls like in TR. We are on /vr/, I'm not talking about the shit you posted

>>9389537
>garbage ps1 pad is the sole reason people itt defend tank controls

>>9389545
I played on keyboard and thought it was great.
Get fucked zoomer.

>>9389545
It's also the reason I play 3 or Underground instead of Tony Hawk 2 even though 2 has comfier levels and music

>>9389553
Didn't they add stick controls for the DC or 64 port? They did for RE2

>>9389538
>>9389545
There have been studies done that demonstrate that people who can't understand tank controls do not possess a high level of spatial reasoning. They literally lack the brainpower to be able to imagine where a character is in a 3D space and interpret their movements in an abstract way.

People who struggle with tank control based movement schemes also tend to struggle with other tasks that require abstract movement and/or spatial reasoning, such as driving a remote controlled car, or identifying the correct answers in the classic folding cubes test (pic related).

They also tend to do exceedingly poorly (regardless of control scheme) in games like Descent that utilize 6dof.

>>9389530
Get filtered even harder

>349 replies

>>9389565
Hundreds of people shitting on one retard.

>>9389561
What about people who understand them and just don't like them because they look and feel retarded for things that, you know, aren't tanks?

>>9389586
cope, brainlet

>>9389595
You probably already made 150 cope posts in this thread alone

>>9389601
butthurt brainlet

>>9389571
He thinks a game with tank controls developed by a company that otherwise makes nothing but 50% Metacritic games is a masterpiece but I wouldn't call him a retard. People have their taste

>>9389604
found the retard

>>9388712
Can you watch your own webm and tell me where the good gameplay is?

>>9388745
>a game made for coomers by coomers

>leave thread
>come back 24 hours later
>tendies still malding because they're so bad at vidya they can't even play Tomb Raider
>still shitting themselves because they can't accept the fact Tomb Raider has tighter gameplay than Mario 64
Funniest thread on /vr/ right now desu.

>>9388847
Level design is supposed to be tailored to the controls, sweetie.

>>9389738
>Tomb Raider has tighter gameplay than Mario 64
What is this autism?

>>9389753
A tendie falseflagging again

Not even normies think the original trilogy aged well
https://gameranx.com/features/id/348394/article/15-best-tomb-raider-games-ranked/

>>9389753
It's called reality. Shame you're too retarded to comprehend it.

>>9389768
Not even the Tomb Raider team would agree with that.

>>9389764
Normies even didn't play video games in 1996. Their opinions are irrelevant and completely retarded.

>>9389775
Show me where they disagree.

>>9389784
I said would. Email them.

>>9389812
>The original Tomb Raider team would disagree that Tomb Raider has tighter controls than Mario 64
>Prove what I'm saying?
>N-no I can't do that...
kek

>>9389815
Do you have brain aids?

>>9389890
You're the one making claims you can't prove and have no basis for, Anon. If anyone here has brain AIDS and also literal AIDS it's you.

>op unironically did not beat the game and is now 369 posts high into the maldosphere
sad!

The PS2 Tomb Raiders literally fixed everything OP mentioned. This alone proves the flaws retards ITT pretend are features are really just flaws due to lack of experience and laziness.

>>9389923
Mario Galaxy fixed everything wrong with Mario 64. This alone proves the flaws retards ITT pretend are features are really just flaws due to lack of experience and laziness.

>>9389923
>magnetized ledge grabbing and simplifying the puzzles/exploration fixed the game

>>9389939
Mario fans might be less retarded than you and not denying that Mario sequels improved things.

>>9389941
>>magnetized ledge grabbing
I don't recall her doing that in the PS2 games. Would be better than not trying to grab anything at all even though your hands touch the ledge just because the angle isn't perfect like what happens in the PS1 games, though.

>>9389923
>PS2 Tomb Raiders "fix the flaws" of classic TR
>Tomb Raider fucking dies so hard it goes dormant and gets rebooted years later
Looks like the so-called flaws weren't flaws at all and didn't need fixing.

>>9389953
>>Tomb Raider fucking dies so hard it goes dormant and gets rebooted years later
...and plays even less like the shoddy PS1 games while selling twice as much. What point are you trying to make, you braindead retard?

Damn you need long this time.

>>9389951
>Would be better than not trying to grab anything at all even though your hands touch the ledge just because the angle isn't perfect
It's literally impossible for that to happen in Tomb Raider. You've never played it.
>like what happens in the PS1 games
>anally annihilated tendie still thinks Tomb Raider was only for the PS1
>still thinks he's pwning the snoys
rumao

>>9389975
>It's literally impossible for that to happen in Tomb Raider. You've never played it.
So you're defending a game you don't know. Have fun.

>>9389960
>What point are you trying to make
That the Tomb Raider games from Angel of Darkness to Underworld were so bad they temporarily killed the entire Tomb Raider franchise. They definitely didn't fix anything.
>braindead retard
Yes, I know you're a braindead retard.

>>9389984
I accept your surrender.

>>9389991
Instead of dignifying this garbage post by reading it I'm having a laugh about the fact it took you 10 minutes to come up with it.
>>9389993
Am I supposed to believe you aren't >>9389991? Stop spamming.

toby g something was responsible for the movement system in all games. you can't hate x and defend y
they are all mid

>>9390000
>Am I supposed to believe you aren't >>9389991?
No. You're not. Anon, I think the problem here is that you're genuinely retarded and can't follow a discussion or fully understand the words that people write.

>>9389951
As much as I admittedly like the ps2 trilogy the one thing that bothers me is how “on rails” they feel. You go to a chasm and the ledges and clearly defined and there’s no thinking required as to where to go. You go to a wall run and you “interact” with it only one way. The thing about the original games that appeals to me is when you go into an area for the first time, having to stop and closely examine and think about the area is a fundamental part of the game. Ledges, ladders and shimmy paths can be hidden, but as long as you stop and think, they kind of reveal themselves and that in itself is the fun part of platforming in the originals to me. All of that was removed in the ps2 games, and to a larger extent it was removed completely from all games

The PS2 games got rid of tank controls which alone sets it miles above the PS1 westsoge. How did this shit even become the norm on PS1 when Crash had normal controls in 1996?

>>9390025
>PS1
>PS2
Tomb Raider wasn't a Playstation franchise, you penis sniffing retard.
>How did this shit even become the norm on PS1
It wasn't.

>>9389951
>Mario sequels improved
bait post do not respond

>>9390012
One of the best parts about the earlier Tomb Raider games is seeing this big ass room you gotta figure out and scan a way to progress in. It's a real treat panning over things and figuring out how it's all put together once you start moving trough it.

>>9390034
>Tomb Raider wasn't a Playstation franchise, you penis sniffing retard.
I understand feeling ashamed of it as a Playstation fangirl, but it was from the ground up designed for the PS1 with the PC version being an afterthought. 10 seconds of Google.

>>9390039
Exactly, and that’s why the level editor is still so popular within the community today, because these aspects of the gameplay still work. If a level editor was released for the lau trilogy, would it even matter? There’s so much less room to experiment in those games

>>9390006
Reminder the Tomb Raider 1 GODS also directed this masterpiece

>>9390053
did some of them an hero by now?

>>9390046
>afterthought
But pc got the bonus levels for the first 3 games

>>9390046
>it was from the ground up designed for the PS1 with the PC version being an afterthought
>10 seconds of Google
Holy fucking lol. The Playstation, Saturn, and PC versions of Tomb Raider were developed simultaneously. Pic related. I'm just shocked that you'd get your information wrong after 10 whole seconds of Google, Anon, I really am.

>>9390034
>Tomb Raider wasn't a Playstation franchise, you penis sniffing retard.

I thought it was pretty well known that Sony paid for console exclusive rights after the first Tomb Raider was released? The first Tomb Raider was developed with the Saturn as the lead console, mostly because it was easier to make models as quads and convert them to triangles. TR1 Lara Croft model is the chunkiest, because it was based on the Saturn model. But from Tomb Raider 2 to Last Chronicles, the Playstation 1 was the lead development console for the original Tomb Raider series. The series still ended up on PC.

>>9390034
>Tomb Raider wasn't a Playstation franchise, you penis sniffing retard.

I thought it was pretty well known that Sony paid for console exclusive rights after the first Tomb Raider was released? The first Tomb Raider was developed with the Saturn as the lead console, mostly because it was easier to make models as quads and convert them to triangles. TR1 Lara Croft model is the chunkiest, because it was based on the Saturn model. But from Tomb Raider 2 to Chronicles, the Playstation 1 was the lead development console for the original Tomb Raider series. The series still ended up on PC.

>>9379643
This is a cold take. Every magazine pointed this out about TRC which is why the series died. They couldn't figure out how to do proper controls until CD took over

>>9390039
Yep the gameplay of classic TR is slow and methodical there really isn't a platformer like it and it sticks with you a long time which is why great fan maps are still being made today. It's kinda like the platformer Thief in how you slowly move through a labyrinth of a level and when you finally finish you see the timer and it took you 2+ hours.

You either get it or you don't.

>>9390085
>I thought it was pretty well known that Sony paid for console exclusive rights after the first Tomb Raider was released?
Sony fucked themselves with that deal. The Saturn was on its deathbed in 1997 so Core probably wouldn't have released TR2 or TR3 for it to begin with. Then exclusivity expired and TR4 and TR5 were released for the Dreamcast. Trying to pretend like Tomb Raider was a Sony franchise when it was always multiplatform is the height of retardation.

>>9390112
Some quotes:
>GamePro echoed the view that Tomb Raider was somewhat in need of an update, remarking of the latter console version that despite having the improved graphics and good story, Tomb Raider Chronicles has the same controls as previous Tomb Raider games, calling them as antiquated

>IGN was primarily mixed, especially to the PlayStation version, calling it the best game in the series, yet no so much different to the previous games.[54] Frank O'Connor of MacLife also agreed the game was "the best Tomb Raider yet", but noted the series had not kept up with the rest of the gaming industry.[55]

>Ron Dulin of GameSpot was mixed; of the PC version, he said that the series hasn't grown up with the times.

>Jon Thompson of AllGame gave the PlayStation version a similar score of two stars out of five, noticing its franchise fatigue and recommended the title to the fans who are accustomed to its formula

The only reason Tomb Raider became a meme is because it came out in 1996 and not 1997

>>9390128
Tomb Raider II came out in 1997 and was wildly popular. You lose.

>>9390127
The idea was also squeezing n64 out, which effectively had nothing to compete with Tomb Raider.

>>9390141
>n64
>which effectively had nothing to compete with Tomb Raider
Until 1998. Sony's console exclusivity for TR2 and TR3 was basically fucking pointless.

>>9390128
>same controls as previous Tomb Raider games, calling them as antiquated
That's harsh

>>9390153
Only became as popular because Tomb Raider was so shit Zelda looked like the second coming in comparison

>>9390128
Why do we care what reviewers say again? Every time I read a review from this era it makes it seem like they were solely hellbent to shit on anything that wasn’t different enough for them

>>9390153
Level design is much simpler than tomb raider, zelda is a casual, accessible game. tomb raider requires far more skill.

>>9390128
The whole article is interesting
>In 1997 Core Design opened negotiations with Nintendo to release a Nintendo 64 version of the game and started work on the port in anticipation of the negotiations being successful.[33] The planning took place between 1996 and 1997, with Douglas wanting to redesign the game mechanics to incorporate the platform's analogue stick controls.[21] The team never received Nintendo 64 development kits,[21] and the port was scrapped when Sony finalised a deal to keep subsequent Tomb Raider games exclusive to PlayStation until the year 2000.
They wanted to make N64 Tomb Raider with proper thumbstick controls but Sony literally paid them to scrap the ports. Can't help but hate Snoy

>>9390181
>Tomb Raider has better controls than Mario 64 and better level design than Zelda OoT
Can we book you for birthday parties?

>>9390184
Try backing up to the wall before running.

>>9390183
>>9379951
>No one forced them to make a game like that for PS1 when it has the least favorable controller for it
Turns out someone kind of did. Mystery solved