/vr/ - Retro Games

>>9216532
play resurrection of evil, it has actual level variety, quality level design from start to finish, better monster design, better weapon design and captures the doom 3 experience without all the fucking tedium.

>>9216546
follow up: I'm not sure why nobody plays resurrection of evil. I never see anyone talk about it despite the slight uptick in popularity Doom 3 had. I played it back in the day and recently on Xbox, it fucking ruled.

Because it's based on the console versions.
Watch Doom PS1 and Doom 64 and you'll get it.
>dark and moody lighting
>slow and careful movement
>industrial lighting
>saves between levels

Because it's based on the console versions.
Watch Doom PS1 and Doom 64 and you'll get it.
>dark and moody lighting
>slow and careful movement
>industrial soundtrack
>saves between levels

Doom 3 is mostly a bad tech demo right? Seeing Doom as a very, very bad Half-Life wannabe in tiny corridors and zero soul is so tedious and boring that It's not even worth talking about seriously.

>>9216552
God the ps1 doom ost is wayyy better than the og metal shit. More atmosphere and mood

>>9216532
You take so little damage from everything, there’s plenty of health kits, and ammo is rarely a concern. You have to play on Nightmare for anything close to “tension”, and even that needs a console command to unlock if you don’t want to beat the game once to unlock it.

>>9216532
The only reason Romero didn't like Doom 3 is because he didn't work on it. Hilarious and fair, but ultimately what it comes down to. Also maybe muh slow but he plays that up.
>>9216567
Doom 3 is mechanically nothing like HL or HL2 aside from having a few in-engine cut-scenes and a story to blend the game-play. HL2 could be considered a tech demo as much as this. Original Doom 3 is supposed to be a tense, dark, horror corridor shooter and it really succeeds at that. You will jump playing it. Doom 3 is super good although even I dismissed it on release because muh no power metal high octane action. I also thought the enemy and character redesigns were worse, but these days I can really appreciate them and respect them as a different but uncucked interpretation. Doom 3 was primarily made for Carmack to show off his obsession with real time lighting and shadows, just like he was obsessed with them in Doom 1/2 in their primordial form. He didn't want to be outdone by new competition for something he helped pioneer.
I'd also like to add that Doom 3 isn't up it's own ass being self-referential and presents itself as genuine aside from a single tasteful callback towards the end of the game.
>>9216595
Both good but Doom 1/2 original soundtracks are unbeatable and superior.

It took a long time, but most people realized Doom 3 is actually pretty fucking good.

Reminder: Play the original Xbox/PC release or the dhewm3 sourceport. NEVER EVER play BFG. Duct tape mod faggots ruined the game and fucked it for zoomers to enjoy as BFG is the far more common version that's recommended/available now.

>>9216532
I hate the weapons in Doom 3 personally. They just lack variety and punch. The pistol is really bad, the shotgun sucks, minigun windup makes it unusable when ambushed. The constant monster closets are annoying as fuck and getting hit by enemies moves the camera.

I do love the soundtrack, and the wacky situations the UAC staff find themselves in.

https://youtu.be/0lJ1osM51DU?t=42

>>9216567
>>9216642
Doom 3 is much worse than a Half Life wannabe. It's System Shock 2 but without any of the gameplay, other than shooting.

>>9216532
>>9216546
I like Doom 3 but yeah it becomes a repetitive slog to get through with the only highlight being your brief trip to hell. Play Resurrection of Evil instead it only lasts a few hours and has the super shotgun.

>>9216663
it's not system shock 2 either or trying to be fag.
this is a retarded enough comparison that i'm thinking this is bait.

>>9216686
You need to open terminals and listen to boring sound logs to discover secrets and shit. Its like the designers played ss2 and thought it'd be more immersive to do the same shit, but without any of the RPG gameplay context.

>>9216532
I know what you mean. The gameplay feels repetitive but ,nevertheless, it's coherent with its predecessors. Doom 1 and 2 were fucking repetitive and boring as well. It's part of the the atmosphere thou. Supposedly, You are a marine fighting alone in a planet overruled by demons.

>>9216739
and that's a good thing. Doom doesn't need any RPG padding.

>>9216532
Doom 3 was a piece of garbage. 4 enemies MAX, you have to constantly check that stupid pda, it's dark as fuck and I'm almost tempted to say metroid prime was a better fps. I won't go that far though.

>>9216532
>How did they go from making the most fun fps ever conceived to this fucking garbage in the span of less than 10 years?

The 00's was the darkest times for FPS. Even the 10's and 20's were/are better.

Tasteless zoomies will disagree

>spawns enemies in front of you, behind you, and sometimes on top of you in an enclosed space.
>marines and chaingunners hitscan attacks are impossible to dodge unless you play peek-a-boo with cover.
>Too easy on Marine, too frustrating on Veteran purely because of the hitscan enemies.
>Shotgun spread is RNG for no reason.
>Constantly hides enemies right behind doors, especially frustrating with Imps because their leap is impossible to avoid at such close proximity.
>Every hidden ammo/heath pickup triggers enemies warping in, predictable and boring.
>Commando's charge the player at ridiculous speeds and their tentacle attack has huge range.
>Revenant rockets become tedious or impossible to dodge in close quarters.
>Environments are repetitive and samey across most of the game.
>Audio logs are some of the dullest, most dry attempts at plot development I've ever heard in a game. Voice acting is awful and often just generic "I'm hearing voices" bullshit. Players have to stand still to listen to them because bad audio mixing and lack of subtitles make it impossible to play the game and listen to them like System Shock.
>Constant-stop-start PDA email reading and voice memo listening to get locker codes. Easy to ignore on easier difficulties but mandatory on harder.
>Story is just Half Life. Which is ironic considering Half Life was just Doom 1.
>Hell level is great but painfully short.
>Stupid voice prompt from the Soul Cube every-time you kill 5 enemies.

I still like this game a lot but god damn can it be tedious, especially on higher difficulties. I appreciate what they were going for with a slower paced, horror focused Doom but ultimately the shortcomings make it one of the weaker games in the series. Still a gorgeous looking game and the flashlight switching smartly ups the tension in some parts. Not talking about the BFG edition btw.

>>9216925
CoD4 remains the greatest retro fps of all time.

>>9216771
Yeah doom doesn't need rpg, but it definitely needs voice logs and pda notes.

>>9216925
Soldier of Fortune 2

>>9216956
he's baiting, don't fall for it. he's thirsty for (you)s.

I've always thought of Doom 3 more as a playable tech demo then as an actual game.

>>9216956
SoF games suffer from the shitty tropes of the era: muh "realism" meaning a selection of unimaginative weapons, every enemy types are humans with the same one AI and the only thing that differs between them is the weapon they use, claustrophobic "mission based" linear levels, focus on "story", etc

the only thing SoF had going for it was the edgy dismemberment

The 00's was the start of the end for the genre and it only recovered circa 2015 with on one side the rise of indie retro FPS and on the other even AAA games borrowing design cues from the 90's because they had finally realized the genre had gone to shit.

>>9217263
Forgot to add the only ones who'd disagree are those who were 12 in 2005 because, as we all know, video games peaked when YOU, yes (You), were 12.

The game has a lot of problems
>crap weapon design
>engine limitations, make each level small rooms.

The beginning is kind of scary, but the game loses momentum later.

>>9216925
2000 was pretty bad. it's amazing that Halo and metroid prime turned out so well

>>9217263
>2015
>fps
>recovered
dohohoho way to tip your hand. nice attempt at baiting

>>9217280
Amid Evil, Dusk, Ion Fury, Doom, Wolfenstein TNO/TOB

+ a bunch of ports that make it easier to play the 90's ones, including new episodes for Doom, Duke and Quake by actual devs.

>>9217286
>he plays nuduum and pozzedenstein
literally kill yourself

>>9217286
>Amid Evil, Dusk, Ion Fury, Doom, Wolfenstein TNO/TOB
>+ a bunch of ports that make it easier to play the 90's ones, including new episodes for Doom, Duke and Quake by actual devs.

>>9217278
You also had Serious Sam, the opposite of games like Doom 3 and FEAR. There was also a bunch of interest in making Source mods, and Valve was doing well with TF2 and Left 4 Dead.
I’d also like to give credit to Doom 3 and Quake 4 for at least being as easy to mod as editing a cfg file. This has been lost on the newest iterations.

>>9217263
>"realism"
>every enemy types are humans
>edgy dismemberment
Sounds based to me. Quake gunplay is dull as fuck despite the weapon variety.

>>9216595
>God the ps1 doom ost is wayyy better than the og metal shit. More atmosphere and mood
based Aubrey Hodges enjoyer
metal on midi is indeed a bit awkward

>>9216546
>better monster design
They basically just spam those teal plasma throwers instead of the normal imps.

>>9217658
yes and that's a good thing

>>9217658
They're a bit shorter and are often thrown at you in groups though they are still redundant.
Either way, I still think you'd need to enjoy Doom 3 to properly enjoy the expansion. It's not going to win you over if you didn't enjoy the base campaign at all.
>>9217442
>metal on midi is indeed a bit awkward
It works for the first few tracks when you're supposed to be "pumped up". Then the tracks get more sinister halfway through the episodes. Doom 2 nearly gets rid of the "metal" altogether.

>>9217882
>It works for the first few tracks when you're supposed to be "pumped up"
i discovered Doom on Atari Jaguar so for me the the first map without music was very suspense driven, quite the mood. alternatively i played on a friend's PC but he had deactivated the music because he didn't like it kek.

>>9217914
Also, not everyone had the soundcard to support it at the time. That fueled the "horror" angle for the game by a lot, especially when you're some 90s person turning around to find a pinkie eating you for the first time.
Then some tracks are amazing at building some atmosphere.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HZEF6Ujsl0

>>9217932
yeah and great track indeed. one of my favorites.

>>9216532
>Surely if I shit on this fairly serviceable game and technical showpiece, the other based and redpilled retrobros will shower me with e-cred!
Channer as fuck, bro, I bet you're a real wild guy.

>>9217442
>metal on midi is indeed a bit awkward


>he's still using windows shitty default midi sounds

I tried finishing it recently, but there's a game breaking bug in Delta 1 where if you attempt to activate the exit elevator before turning the reactor back on, the elevator will never activate. With the way the auto-save system works it puts a save file right after the reactor is activated, preventing you from ever finishing the level, and requiring a restart of the entire game. Fuck that shit.

>>9217976
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbZcD-hgQQI
i'm not

Posting D3 kino
https://imgur.com/a/PI6Ia7B

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjEx292Ph8M
Besides the ps1 ost, this is the best version

>>9218283
I thought that blue windowed room looked great too, and you're only in it for a few moments.
>>9217989
I don't recall that being in the original version, so the BFG Edition fucked you here. Sucks to see.

>>9218315
Isnt this the one where one of the studio heads did the songs because he wanted to show off

>>9216663
>>9216686
He makes a good point. Doom 3 would have been a hell of a lot better if there was some hacking and rpg elements. People would have called it a breakthrough in originality.

Doom 3 would have been great if they chopped 1/3 of the levels.
Also doom 2016 drags near the end too

>>9216686
I’m leaning towards ‘bait’, if it tried to be “Demon SS2” it would’ve been no more in-depth or groundbreaking as Invisible War was.

Absolute HD mod or Essential HD pack?

>>9216532
Just play the intro until you meet the scientist. That's where the good part (adventure game) ends.

>>9216546
The shooting and the action is the problem with doom 3. None of the weapons even FEEL good to use. They should have just made an Amnesia/SOMA style adventure-horror game where you interact with panels and read things and so on.

>>9216662
Using the pistol feels like I'm farting at enemies, not shooting them.

>>9216771
The game they made in that engine didn't need to be Doom!

They could have made a better game, a doom spinoff Amnesia style horror adventure with minimal action.

>>9216925
Perfect Dark was 2000?

Also perfect dark is like doom 3 but better

>>9218946
Mars Destruction with upscaled textures or Overthinked.

>>9219236
are they upscaled here?

>>9219258
Yeah, with particular attention to the textures with the lowest resolution.

>>9218746
honestly i didn't know i needed a doom immersive sim until now.

>>9216739
>but without any of the RPG gameplay context
This clause is fucking stupid.

>>9216739
Well lets not forget this is a Carmack game.

>Doom
>Hey we can't do Aliens, so lets do the same thing but with demons!
>We could have scenes where you witness the invasion while you're playing poker with your mates.
>And then there'd be standoff battles with the cpu helping you.
>and everybody has a background, and you meet people and-
>carmack: PEOPLE JUST WANNA PEW PEW!!

>Quake
>Okay so like.. what if we made like an amazing 3D RPG where you traverse through multiple realities, and every reality is like based on something from the classic RPGs, so you got the knights and you got the scifi and you got the gothic and you got the lovecraft stuff
>and then everybody has a backstory and you gotta find ancient artifacts and-
>Carmack: PEW PEW
>what?
>Carmack: JUST PEW PEW, GLUE EVERYTHING INTO ONE THING AND THEN PEW PEW!

>Doom 3
>Okay so.. pew pew?
>Carmack: pew pew!
>B-but.. maybe we can like use the computers?
>Carmack, FINE! but nothing more, just reading and then pew pew!

>How did they go from making the most fun fps ever conceived to this fucking garbage in the span of less than 10 years?
Someone unironically thought people played doom for spooks, like it was a survival horror game. They didn't think people played it for action or anything.

>>9216532
>How did they go from making the most fun fps ever conceived to this fucking garbage in the span of less than 10 years?
Losing 90% of the original team due to Carmack's autism combined with Tim Willits's corporate backstabbing.

>>9216532
Doom had no reason to exist after Quake was a thing, so it was turned into a spooky horror game. It's as simple as that.

>>9220221
>>9220240
You're both wrong. Doom was originally meant to be a horror game but Carmack thought that was gay. Fast forward a decade and Carmack thought the new graphics technology could actually pull off a good horror experience like was intended in the first place.

i feel like the idea that doom was always nothing more than a fast paced action game is a product of revisionism created in the backlash of call of duty and counter strike when everything needed to be realistic and tacticool.

DOOM3's problem is that its not a fast paced action shooter like its predecessors, but its also not a proper horror survival game.
a bit more RPG action would indeed have helped, because if you take away the action then the whole "shuffle shuffle imp spawn" approach gets old rather quick.

They wanted to do both and succeeded at neither.

>a bit more RPG action would indeed have helped
That's really shortsighting, suggesting they spread themselves even thinner. Being so readily configurable is what helped: Enemy, weapon, and player scripts were easily tinkered with and enabled by simply putting renamed text files in subfolders within 'base'.

>>9220207
finally someone got it. what the hell are the shit Doom 3 takes?
>It should've been an rpg
>muh fake SS2
>the computer monitors suck

It's fucking Carmack. He needed to ship a game with ID Tech. I guarantee the only reason the terminals are in there is because a computer in a computer game gave him a hard on or he would've had his team nix that shit and focus on textures and lighting more. It's probably the the reason the gunplay is shit. Romero was all about game feel (the guy makes BOOM and KAPOW sounds like a damn comic boom when he's talking). Carmack only did technical stuff and he ran the show by then.

>>9221117
>like was intended in the first place.

Stop saying things like "intended" or "supposed to" for ideas thrown around that never came to be before actual development began. It makes you look very stupid.

>>9221782
I liked the computer inside my computer, it was very immersive

they should make a doom game where you have to program your defensive turrets in z80 assembly

>>9220221
It's not incompatible, Doom 64 has spooks and action and I think it's a great game.

>>9222415
this.i got in long arguments with people who can't legitimately comprehend that you can have action+horror theme/vibes.
playing Doom 1 as a kid in the mid 90's was not the same experience as it is now. i had a pal who was too scared to play without cheats kek.
ever wondered why some people play on gamma 11 or refuse to finish Doom 3? eh not everybody is honest about Doom...

>>9222547
>playing Doom 1 as a kid in the mid 90's was not the same experience as it is now. i had a pal who was too scared to play without cheats kek.
I’d even argue that playing Doom 3 when it was first out isn’t the same as playing it now.

>>9222160
it was in the design docs, dingus

>>9221117
Carmack didn't think it was gay, he just thought people would prefer a game without a story.
creating the DOOM3 engine and knowing that people were gonna try to make cinematic experiences with it must have eaten him alive!!

>>9222547
I didn't have the chance to play Doom when I was a kid in the 90's. I played Doom 1 for the first time at 30 years old and my experience was excellent. This game is a lightning in a bottle, its atmosphere works perfectly.

>>9223313
not many games grab this amount of fans still 30 years later as this one seems to. the sheer volume of content people still build for these games is monumental...