/vr/ - Retro Games

>>9208079
game mags were paid to create the image of an auteur but whenever miyamoto was directly asked things it shattered this reality as he would frequently deny the obvious (copying from other games, stealing valor) and credit it to obtuse machinations such as playing in a garden. This did usher in some humiliating eras for Nintendo as the reigns would be handed over to him to their own demise on several projects.

>never scammed anyone

he is great

>>9208079
A lot of people are obsessed with the idea of auteurism because it's easy. The thing is that games and films are a collaborative effort and they aren't made by a single person like novels, music and art are.

>>9208079
Any screenshot of said mags you'd like to provide to back up your story?

>>9208089
>DUDE YOU CAN'T TALK ABOUT THIS ISSUE IF YOU DON'T HAVE THIS 25 YEAR OLD MAG AT HAND
fuck off, seriously. kys.

>>9208103
Don't get pissy, retard
If the issue was just op saying they were a dumbass that assumed one guy was making Nintendo games it'd be nothing, but they're claiming mags were "perpetuating the notion".
I never got that impression from the magazines I read, and I'd like to see what put it in his head so strongly it stuck with him all the way to 2022.

>>9208079
>as a kid I thought pic related was making games every month all by himself.
The magazines never said this. They were very clear that people like Miyamoto were leading a team. Why would you think otherwise?

>>9208079
Same reason movies say "created by Dick Cummings" and then have a big list of credits.

>>9208079
>>9208087

>>9208079
>as a kid i thought
you thought wrong kid anon. you took someone else's word for something, it wasn't the first time and it wouldn't be the last. now you are asking us to verify this? still wanting others to verify claims. take a look at the fucking credits yourself and make up your mind about who did what.

>>9208089
>>9208120
>>9208123
>>9208185
The media very obviously does this all the time with movies, games, music, etc... Why even try to shit all over OP's thread when he's bringing up something obvious? John Woo is credited for amazing action scenes, he isn't the action director, the choreographer, etc. and they never get mentioned. Directors are credited for their beautiful shots and use of color, etc... They aren't the cinematographer. Singers are credited for the songs and compositions and sound, they aren't the producer or engineer or arranger or even most of the time the person that actually made the song. Go ask any casual who made Final Fantasy and depending on the game they'll tell you Sakaguchi or Nomura. Most people think Kojima did everything for MGS. When Evil Within came out, most press and reviews and even publicity materials said 'Mikami is back! The father of survival horror. Creator of Resident Evil'.
OP's point is pretty clear and valid is so let's try to further the discussion instead of argue and try to get him with a rhetoric 'gotcha'

>>9208224
>the media very obviously does this
>most people think this
>most press and reviews
If you're not samefagging, you're just doing the same as op. Pulling bullshit out your ass to justify the dumb presumptions you had, so you can cope with the feeling of tricked by your own stupidity.

>>9208234
Wow, you're a genius. Now fuck off.

>>9208084
>get inspired from multiple sources
>one of them being letting his imagination roam as a child in his garden
>mention it as an offhand comment to an interviewer
>NO, SEE HE’S LYING?! HE DIDN’T HAVE ANY INSPIRATION FOR THIS GAME FROM HIS CHILDHOOD IMAGINATION, IT WAS ALL LITERALLY PLAGARIZED!

>>9208234
You seem to have some personal issues. I clearly gave examples of how people are led to perceive things, and we all know they're true. You can go check what I listed for Evil Within. Did Mikami create survival horror? No. Did he make Resident Evil by himself or even do most of the work? No. Is Evil Within also not a team effort that was mostly written and designed by other people? If you just want to seethe and insult people, take it to another board, there are plenty for you.

>>9208241
>also say we don't look at our competitors games
>get photographed next to the entire megadrive launch line up in his office
your psychotic reaction is noted, but doesn't look very good for miyamoto fanboys.

>>9208179
Fucking kek

>>9208224
"No".

Publications do tend to talk about producers, original song writers, cinematographers, etc.
You, and the OP, didn't actually read the articles, or were too young to know what they were really about.

>>9208271
I want to find that photo, but can't. How should I search it?

>>9208286
I saw it on twitter a few months ago, someone had identified all the games and it was the megadrive launch line up including the infamous osomatsu-kun game.

>>9208290
not going to blindly defend shiggy but it would be stupid for anyone to not check on their competition. it's just as important to see what NOT to do. there are surely plenty of macs at microsoft and PCs at apple, etc.

>>9208224
if you are dumb enough to believe these things then you should enjoy the obliviousness. why should we convince them otherwise jackass?

>>9208329
>but it would be stupid for anyone to not check on their competition
That's the point, publicly they want people to think they don't do this. Everyone does it. Every tech story about a product in development has a point where "we rushed to buy the newest thing from X or Y competitor at launch." It happens every time. Nintendo doesn't want to be seen in the same light as any other company but they're all the same.

The point is they went out of their way to say they don't do it, but they do it. Nintendo has a history of sneaking shit around and it should be brought to light.

>>9208084
>stealing valor
lol shut up. Stop misusing terms. There's no "valor" in game making.

>>9208353
mad vet.

>>9208357
What kind of chickenshit associates valor with making consumer products?

>>9208353
only a dimwit would get offended at this usage

>>9208406
Your old man was fool because he didn't bring you up very good at all.

>>9208079
LOOK GUYS ITS THE ((FATHER)) OF MEGAMAN
At least I think so I dunno all japanese businessmen look alike to me.

>>9208416

>be dumb retard kid
>think one person can make a game
>grow up and realize this can't be true
>get angry and think everyone was in it to deceive you
>even though you were just a dumb kid

>>9208409
Another thing dimwits say.

>>9208456

>>9208084
If there is one thing that's funnier than nintendo fanboys, that's the traumatized anti-nintendo holocaust victim.

>>9208560
>don't you dare criticize nintendomoto you HOLOCAUST VICTIM
wut

>>9208617
Nah you can criticize Nintendo, I often do. It's just funny how you spread lies such as that they "deny influences" or have "obtuse machinations". Even the kind of wording you use feels very holocaust victim-like, not just the lies.
People like you is why Nintendo criticism often falls flat. You're helping the fanboys. I'd even think you're an actual Nintendo fanboy falseflagging as an anti-nintendo victim, but I don't think neither nintendo fanboys nor anti-nintendo victims are smart enough to do that.

>>9208629
>they "deny influences
yeah they do this hence zelda as a whole
>have "obtuse machinations
the wording is fine, why get triggered over this

>>9208631
Yeah sure, they deny any and all influences because Zelda exists...
Again, you're helping the Nintendo fans by saying lies and playing the victim.

>>9208629
>>9208639
>I really hate nintendo fanboys but the real problem is those damn anti-nintendo people!
Holy shit.

>>9208079
They didn't. It's just that producers handle the promotion of a game. So it's your own ignorance that's at fault. Usually the articles will literally say who the director or lead designer is if you read the text.

At the end of the day the director or producer are the only thing that matters the rest are just code monkeys that just follow orders and are replaceable hell even the musicians like Koji kondo are influenced by them like when he was told that the music for Mario galaxy should sound "cool" because Mario is cool, in movies is the same do you really think the cinematographer just do shit without the approval of the director?

>>9208224
People still think Kojima did ANYTHING AT FUCKING ALL for Zone of the Enders.

>>9208079
Stan Lee of gaming. Took all the credit for everything. If Nintendo made anything Miyamoto would jump up and down claiming he made it.

>>9208752
Maybe if he did it would have turned out into a good game.

>>9208640
>hate
lol, that's too strong of an emotion, I merely said I find fanboys funny, and somehow Nintendo has the most psychotic of both kinds of fanboys, the positive and the negative ones. You fall on the negative side but you're no better than the actual positive pro-Nintendo fanboys, in fact you're worse.
There's many things you could criticize about Nintendo, claiming that they "deny influences" is a lie and, thus, you're giving free ammo to the nintendo fanboys, so they can say "See? Nintendo haters lie, they have no argument."

>>9208795
we get it, you love nintendo you just disagree with the new paper mario direction or w/e

>>9208772
between the 72 hour cut scenes and diatribes about the cold war

>>9208079
gaming magazines were stupid and are stupid, it's a stupid job for stupid people who think they're smarter than they are
there's plenty of interviews with inafune who claim he's the creator of mega man and other stupid shit like that, that's just how it is, i don't like it but ya can't help it

>>9208370
it's for comedic value, you stupid boring braindead retard

>>9208752
He included the Metal Gear Solid 2 demo with it which accounted for 100% of the first game's sales.

>>9208234
Bad news, anon. You're too stupid to realize it, but you're the dummy and it's not even close

>>9208079
Who exactly was making games all by himself back then?

>>9208084
thankfully nintendo were one of few companies that let their staff use their full names in game credits (if they chose to), but it sure was fucking rare for them to ever publish information about the actual developers. even nintendo's own magazine wasn't much better in that regard.

>>9208353
people believed for years he was the actual programmer, graphics artists etc. of many early nes titles, not just the delusional and self important "designer" that he truly was. this state of affairs was deliberate. nintendo made him the face that was supposed to represent all of nintendos internal software development teams, but rarely ever any acknowledgement was given to anyone else in those departments.

>>9208086
after miyamoto tried (and failed) to scam Ikegami Tsushinki out of copyrights for their arcade machine version of donkey kong, trying to take advantage of weak copyright laws in japan in the early 1980s, miyamoto and the nes engineer masayuki uemura decided they would fuck over Ikegami one more time by hiring Hitachi to reverse engineer the arcade board that powered donkey kong. Hitachi created the NES PPU which was nearly identical to how the arcade board functioned.
> never scammed anyone
sure thing, nintentoddler. their entire early history is based on scams and lies.

>>9208560
Based

>>9209663
>scam Ikegami Tsushinki out of copyrights for their arcade machine version of donkey kong
Interesting. Could you tell more?

Miyamoto was always portrayed as a creative director of his games, nothing more. He came up with the ideas and the characters and the innovations then his team made it happen.

This happens with literally everything. There's always a guy who gets credited for collaborative projects. And to be fair the guy at the top making all of the decisions is probably the guy to credit, if anyone. He didn't make all of the Mario games, but would they exist without him? probably not. Would they exist without the sprite artist who drew the clouds? Yes.

>>9208560
Some of these people are seriously demented. You think they don't really exist, and then you stumble upon some middle aged man desperately trying to prove that every game on the Master System is better than every game one the NES like his life depends on it, and you feel a bit bad for them. It's okay to like Alex Kidd and Mario, nigga. No one cares.

>>9208370
>>9208409
ay bro u want a bite

>>9210541
I've just ate, but I'll take one of the blue, if it isn't much trouble. Thank you.

>>9208079
If you ask people who directed Link to the Past, Super Mario World, and others, they'll say Miyamoto. Meanwhile the actual director of many of these games is Takashi Tezuka who has mostly stayed out of the spotlight despite being an internal Nintendo Powerhouse as both a creator and executive.

He was also assistant director to Super Mario Bros., and co-director to Zelda as well as writer. He was even writer to Zelda II, meaning if you like the story and dialogue you can blame him. I think it's pretty neat. Not to downplay Miyamoto, but Tezuka looks like he was his apprentice and partner during the Famicom era, and then became his own guy in the Super Famicom era.

A shame he hasn't done any design since Super Mario 64, and has been relegated to producing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takashi_Tezuka

Because producers had social skills, public speaking experience and charisma, while programmers were more asocial nerds with a few exceptions, and even then, a lot of those exceptions are guys who took credit for the work of other people.
Of course people liked to think some guy with pretty hair and good public speaking made the game by himself and deny that it was actually worked on by a bunch of smelly, ugly, probably psycho social retards who know how to code really fucking well and do advanced mathematics.

>>9210583
Tezuka is seriously underrated.

>>9211131
A tale as old as time.

>>9208271
>HE WAS IN THE SAME ROOM AS A GENSIS! SEE THAT MEANS HE STOLE HIS GAME!!!

Psychosis

>>9209663
>Miyamoto didn't do everything, Nintendo just pushed him as the "face" of programmers
>also Miyamoto TOTALLY did everything that fucking cur I hate HIM HE did it ALL HIMSELF

>>9208456
it do be like that

>>9210565
Based

>>9208079
He just programmed the original SMB and Zelda games right?
Otherwise I just assumed he was more of a creative director than anything afterwards

>>9213853
>He just programmed the original SMB and Zelda games right?

Opposite, he was a level designer, gameplay guy, director, and character designer. He designed the original Mario and Zelda cast. A lot of his Mario designs are working becakwards from pixel limiations, and done on graph paper. He was trying to get clear designs from as few pixels and colors as possible.

>>9213857
yeah that's what I mean

>>9208079
lol that's exactly how we ended up with kojima and his drones thinking he was a "revolutionary" artists

>>9213864
Miyamoto did everything but program though. DK, Mario, and Zelda, were the big games he worked on. And his last hands on game was Mario 64. After that he was a producer and supervisor.

He is not even the true creator of Mario just like Stan Lee was not the true creator of Spiderman
he is just a businessman

>>9213875
Who's the true creator of Mario then, mr. know-it-all?

Before I har heard of Shigeru Miyamoto I thought Hiroshi Yamauchi personally created every Nintendo franchise that started under his reign.

The job of a producer is to be a people wrangler. Getting people into the right position is key to ensuring a game comes out good. Miyamoto was a good designer too, making sure that everything looks good and feels good to control. Someone like Inafune was a decent artist but not a good producer gameplay designer, so he could draw a bunch of promising looking art but couldn't assemble a team or tell them how to make their game fun. Yuji Naka was a good old school programmer who had understood how to make a game fun to play, but couldn't adapt to modern programming or tell other people how to make their game fun.

Maybe if Miyamoto went solo he'd end up collapsing the same way

Miyamoto was a one trick pony really, and never did much past the Famicom era. Compare him to someone mutli-faceted like Keiji Inafune who had a multi-decade career of hit after hit. Artist, designer, comceptor, character design, creator, producer, executive, CEO, etc he did it all. The amount of series he persoanlly created is too many to name, but he had a hand in all of them. All of them variying from horror, to action, to platformer, to sci-fi. You can just tell when a game had that special "Inafune touch" that gave it that extra bit of magic.

>>9208224
The director's position is very important. They guide everyone's work into their unique vision while also hopefully following advice of others on matters they don't know as much about.
Without a director everyone would be running around like headless chickens trying to do what they want instead of focusing on "the vision".

So, all these people who supposedly, "didn't do anything," how did they end up in the position they were in? If Shigeru Miyamoto, "didn't do anything," couldn't anyone become just as renowned in the game industry?

>>9208079
please point to a capitalist industry where this doesn't happen. steve jobs didn't engineer the iphone. the walten family doesn't stock the shelves.

>>9215131
they can come up with a vision together. all the modern games where miyamoto has had the most influence have all been new super mario crap. he even ruined paper mario just the same.

I think a big part of it is that people really, REALLY want to believe in auteur theory. The fact that games and films and television shows are inherently collaborative efforts with lots of people involved is an inconvenience to that mindset because when everything is divided up, you can't give one person all the credit when things go well, and all the blame when it goes wrong.

>>9215324
4chan glorifies it because muh great man thoery /pol/shit. they overblow miyamoto's role because they want to see themselves as him and therefore important.

>>9215324
Or to put it simply, when you don't believe in auteur theory, you very easily get into situations like what happened behind the scenes for Star Trek The Motion Picture, where everyone is pointing fingers at everyone else for what went wrong. Which is also how Japanese politics works, endless games of finger-pointing means no one can really be held accountable for anything.

>>9215328
On some level the Great Man theory is true....but usually it's not what happens. Outside of fringe cases like conquerors or religious leaders who end up sweeping everyone else into their autism, usually they just happen to be the guy that's there at the right time.

>>9215338
so the great man theory isn't true then if it's by far the exception to the rule

>>9208079
the people writing them generally knew no more than you did

>>9210541
If that swirl wasn't a watermart and actually part of that teal-ish one...oh mannnnnnnnnn...I'll take the grape one, please.

>>9215324
If anything, I think it's the opposite. People love thinking they have found the secret truth, and that these famed figures are frauds, when in reality they probably actually are talented visionaries, and all of this stuff wouldn't exist if it wasn't for them.

>>9215802
nintendo games being a collaborative effort isn't in any way a secret truth. it's just the truth. miyamoto imposing himself and giving himself too much power in projects he shouldn't even be touching has been cancer for nintendo in recent years.

>>9208079
I don't think anyone has ever claimed Miyamoto did everything himself. I think you've just misunderstood what a Directing role meant.

>>9215802
>People love thinking they have found the secret truth, and that these famed figures are frauds, when in reality they probably actually are talented visionaries, and all of this stuff wouldn't exist if it wasn't for them.
The problem is I have too much experience with this to think otherwise, and the prime example is Star Trek

Gene was a colossal money grubbing asshole who couldn't keep it in his pants, but he was personally affable and knew how to manipulate a narrative so it's not really until the late 90s/early 00s that people started realizing his detractors weren't people with an ax to grind but rather people with legit grievances over how they were treated. Gene had a habit for if not taking credit for everything, at the very least downplaying the contributions of everyone else. Another thing Gene used to do wasn't so much 'claim' authorship, but more he'd let other people accidentally attribute that authorship to him and simply fail to correct them. For example, the myth surrounding the addition of Worf to the cast. After the character was accepted warmly by the fans, Roddenberry allowed them to believe that Worf was his idea, without correcting them about the truth. When the factual evidence later came out, it showed that it was Bob Justman who conceived the character, and he and Rick Berman who pushed for Worf's addition to the cast. Roddenberry was against it all the way.

Aside from the rewrites and the pushing his way into royalties that didn't belong to him, this is the kind of thing that went on, and with each passing generation the myth grew until it was believed unquestionably.

>>9208456
Lots of people create video games by themselves.

>>9216531
Yes but not bigger games. There's a reason modern credits take 20 minutes to all go through, and no single person was the prime reason the game was good.

Doom is the perfect example of collaborate efforts creating something memorable, people love the levels, the gunplay, the music, etc. Each of these things was generally handled by one person working in tandem with the others. You take out any one of them and Doom loses a big part of what made it great, they're all necessary. It's the reason neither Romero nor Carmack were the same after no longer working together.

>stan lee the marvel comics creator syndrome

>>9208079
Considering the industry figures that first received Lifetime Achievement Awards, I think it was a media-wide misconception driven by marketing and even journos legitimately believed that
I know I did up until just some years ago lol

>>9217696
Miyamoto was in fact director (or co-director), level designer, and character designer for Zelda, Donkey Kong, and Mario bros. Pretty big solid entries in Nintendo history.

>>9208079
I blame european magazines for this

>>9217696
Well, it really took one writer and two artists to do comics in that era so that's kinda accurate.

>>9208079
bump

>>9214165
good summation

>>9216531
in fact, in the 70s (when Miyamoto started), most games were created by just one person

>>9221932
What's more to discuss? He gets all the credit because social skills, that's it.

>>9210536
Or Super Nintendo VS Genesis games.
Just look at any random Youtube video comparing the same game on both SNES and Genesis and all you get in the comments are a bunch of schizos saying the Genesis version is better regardless if it's actually true or not.

>58 posters

>>9222157
Sometimes it is true, but people invest way too much energy into this. Golden age Nintendo and Sega were both amazing. Who cares, man?

>>9215840
Would Mario exist if not for Miyamoto? Would it have any of it's characteristic personality? Nintendo would have made a game, but it would have been a very different game. I see no reason not to believe that, unless evidence surfaces.

>>9215316
He pretty much doesn't work on those games though. They have outright said that they use NSMB to train younger employees, because 2D Mario is such a simple formula. The Last Mario game Miyamoto even has a producer role on is Galaxy, as far as I know.

>>9222179
u new? that's on par and even good for 4chinz standards
>2 posts per ip I'M GOING INSAAAAAAAANEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>9208079
You're a dipshit considering Mario and Zelda games have end credits. You did beat those games, right sonny?

>>9222234
>person is more involved in projects back then
>games are made by less than 10 people back then
>time moves on
>hardware gets better
>expectations bigger
>dev teams larger
>tech changes
>we're no longer doing precise pixel art and Assembly code, we're doing polygons and C++
>grows old and becomes less involved
>lets others work on newer entries

>>9208079
Because he's the boss. He has oversight over all parts of the game and tells people what to do and to change things he doesn't like.

>>9208103
>make claim
>"do you have a source for this?"
>OMG YOU ARE DEBOONKING ME
Back to your containment board, and don't forget to take your meds

>>9223636
So how is it his fault if they're not as good as the early ones that he was fully involved in?

>>9215338
>On some level the Great Man theory is true....
It's true in the sense that everyone is inherently different and some people absolutely have innate advantages over others, but not in the insane /pol/ way

>>9215328
Uh pretty sure /pol/ sees Japanese people as inferior. This is just stupid.

>>9208079
>as a kid I thought pic related was making games every month all by himself.
You sound like you ate glue and yelled a lot.

>>9208079
>as a kid I thought pic related was making games every month all by himself.
Tendies still think this to this day.

>>9225882
Seems like I'm missing out on the latest /pol/ speak again. What a pity.

>>9226192
Are you fucking retarded? Get lost, newfag.

>>9208079
Thats because you were a kid.
A director doesn't make a movie alone.
A music producer still needs a band to play
Comic books are made by creative teams
Even authors have editors and other staff to help them
We all knownthis, yet still refer to the creative lead as the one person who made the thing in question. Why? Because they're the fucking creative lead.

>>9211131

One of the better posts I've ever read here

>>9208079
They didn't. It's just that part of a producer's job is to do promotion, which includes magazine interviews etc.
You just inferred incorrectly that they were responsible.

Nowdays people have no excuse, coz you can just look up mobygames to see who the director is.

>>9208416
>>9208451
Although it is true he's not the creator of Mega Man, by the same token, we should stop perpetuating the myth he just took the money and ran away when Takuya Aizu as the project's main producer has declared what happened to the money and all the issues during development (namely, Inti Creates' lack of experience with a 3D engine that isn't even documented in Japanese)

>>9227495
>/v/niggers calling anyone else a newfag
talk about the pot callin the kettle black eh

>>9222157
Reminds me I actually said there are good SNES games in a comparison thread and some guy with a Kid Chameleon profile pic typed a bunch of autistic shit about the Genesis' specs and how the games run faster and have better music to "prove" me wrong. Shit was like 3 paragraphs long. These people are likely pushing 40 and are still not over it.