/vr/ - Retro Games

Megaman Legends was a spin-off of a franchise which was already familiar with spin-offs. It might have been "the first 3D Megaman game" on paper, but it wasn't treated as "Megaman transitions into 3D." If you liked what it was you liked the game, if not then there's always Megaman X4 and you can feel free to not think about Megaman Legends.

Sonic Adventure was mainline Sonic, the first 3D adaption of a series that once rivaled the mainline Mario series after a much hyped (but completely awful) 3D game that never happened.

>>9196957
Both Sonic Adventure and Mega Man Legends are great, so I'm not sure what are you on about.

>>9196957
Well tbf hhghhb.

>>9197067
this

Because journalists and youtubers gaslit and entire generation into thinking its worse than Hitler.

>>9196957
It's funny that many people that will vehemently defend Sonic as a whole are mentally ill or furries, or both.
But people that strongly shill the 'sonic was never good' are *always* sóy cucks.
This franchise simply attracts some of the worst people to it.

Sonic fans have a strange way to appreciate anything Sonic. Maybe

I love Sonic Adventure desu. The part where you try to reach Eggman's carrier and fail, then try again with a new airplane and succeed is one of my most cherished childhood memories.

It is insanely pathetic when Sonicfags compare Dreamcast games to the PS1 and N64. They aren't the same gen. The PS1 is a very old, weak, rinky-dink machine that's not even supposed to do proper 3D games in the way that we understand them today, and actual 3D games on PS1 like Spyro and Crash were hugely overpunching with performance tricks. PS1 is equivalent to the Saturn, which is another 2D system that can only do some basic-bitch 3D stuff. Oh wow, a console with 10x the memory and 10x the cpu had le better 3D transition? That's so surprising!! Checkmate atheists! Everyone applaud for Sonic Adventure for beating older, cheaper games made on 2D hardware! What an underdog champion that stood up against the big bullies! If you want a similar comparison, put Sonic Mars and Quake 3 next to each and then shoot yourself in the face afterwards, you insecure fanboy loser.

Being vastly lower in quality than a largely failed 5th gen experiment should have been shameful, to those who understand the concept of shame. MML was a niche and didn't last long, opinions on it were mixed at best at the time. The fact that Sonic could flagship title for a console with no bugtesting, no quality control, no editing or story oversight, control so sloppy it needed a homing attack unlike other games to gain precision, the main perceived "good" parts being non-gameplay sections like loops and an automated whale chase - and still succeed because of his mascot brand power is unique to Sonic.

Mega Man Legends wouldn't have even gotten a 2 if it debuted at the level of quality of Sonic Adventure. Imagine if Crash Bandicoot had played like Sonic Adventure, it would have just been forgotten shovelware example #54.

>>9197463
People compare Dreamcast platformers to fifth gen platformers because sixth gen is when platformers fucking died. Comparing Sonic Adventure to Spyro and Crash on the PS1 is interesting, comparing it to shovelware like the Wrath of Cortex or Enter the Dragonfly is fucking sad. Besides, for Sonic Team it was their first proper foray into 3D.

>>9197472
>MML was a niche and didn't last long,
Bullshit. If MML3 was announced today, it would've been big news. People remember the series fondly.

Based!

>>9197508
valuable posting

>>9197486
How is comparing Sonic Adventure to Crash and Spyro "interesting" when the Dreamcast is 10x more powerful and actually built to do real 3D? I swear Sonicfags are either brainless or purposely petty. They only engage in these discussions when it's punching down. The Dreamcast is way more comparable in infrastructure to the PS2, Gamecube, and 2000s PC. Oh but those systems aren't interesting, right? No 3D games there. That dodge was so sad that it's almost cute. It's a waste of time to go down this route, so please don't peruse it further. You know for a fact that those systems outclass the Dreamcast. If you think that SEGA didn't try to make 3D games on the Saturn and 32X (systems that are actually comparable and designed to compete with the PS1) you are essentially admitting little came from those years (which is actually true). Sonic had no real games during the PS1 era. PS1 devs were far mightier than SEGA, and SEGA fanboys essentially have to lie/cheat and skip a whole generation to prove fanboy nonsense about muh transition because they're insecure losers. Star Fox 2 on SNES has 3D walking stages despite being weaker than the Saturn further proving how sad SEGA was.

>>9196957
because capcom realized it was a bad idea to make mega man 3d unlike sega
and then did more bad ideas with the x series but ya know they made some good stuff eventually
also it released a whole gen later so yeah

>>9196978
I'm still waiting for the first "Megaman transitions into 3D" game. I guess I'll die waiting.

>>9197647
>How is comparing Sonic Adventure to Crash and Spyro "interesting" when the Dreamcast is 10x more powerful and actually built to do real 3D?
Because all three were different devs' first attempts in 3D gaming. They all started from different places and arrived at different places. It's not about muh graffix, it's about mechanics and philosophies.
>Oh but those systems aren't interesting, right?
They are, but not when it comes to platformers. Nintendo had fuck-all, PS2 had Jak and Ratchet but that's it, Xbox had fuck-all.
>Sonic had no real games during the PS1 era
So?
>Star Fox 2 on SNES has 3D walking stages despite being weaker than the Saturn further proving how sad SEGA was.
Just post Krystal or some shit and chill out. Your hateboner for Sega is retarded, it's not the 90s anymore.

>>9197067
/thread

>>9197647
I don't think I've ever seen a discussion comparing Sonic Adventure with Crash or Spyro. Isn't the comparison usually between Sonic Adventure and Mario 64?

>>9197661
>a whole gen later
it was one year after MML and one month after Ocarina of Time

>>9197494
The only people left that talk about MML are us that remember it fondly, that's why it seems so lopsided. People were completely split on it at the time, and yes, it didn't last long, as in there were 2.5 games and then it stopped.

>>9196957
Rockman was always good
Sonic was never good

>>9197669
It wasn't Sega's first attempt. SA1 is Sega's 20th attempt on much greater hardware. I have as little interest in comparing these games because the tech divide is so large that I don't think you even get it. Why not compare Nights and Half-Life 1 next since those are essentially a similar gap?

>>9197674
Yes, which is also stupid. Only Sonic fans are autistic enough to do this kind of stuff because they're obnoxious and insecure about muh transition. Mario is an obvious target to them because people like Mario.

>>9197718
We're talking about Sonic Team, not Sega. Their only experience with 3D gaming was the 3D hub world in Sonic Jam (which used some of the earlier concepts for Sonic Adventure), and NiGHTS into dreams, a 3D game that plays on what's essentially a 2D plane, so it hardly counts too. Sonic Adventure was their first serious effort in 3D game design.
>I have as little interest in comparing these games because the tech divide is so large
That's your problem.

>>9197745
It's not my problem. I'm not obligated to be invested in this arbitrary competition that you have devised. Compare Bug! to Metroid Prime next.

>>9197661
>>9196957
Mega Man legends is a fucking master piece.

The graphics are PEAK low poly. PEAK. There is not one single fucking dream cast game with better aesthetics, at best there are a hand full of games that manage to match it, such as Dead or Alive 2 and soul Calibur, but NONE surpassed it.

Because MML understood what low poly was and it didn't try to be some vain failed attempt at realism like so Nami ugly fucking low poly games like final Fantasy 8,etc... Mega Man legends embraced the medium like no other and thus fully achieved what it set out to do. You cannot impassive the graphics of MML because it isn't meant to have 1 single polygon more than is shown.

The story is awesome, the settings is incredibly immersive and unique, and the gameplay is a ton of fun for anyone who isn't a dumb fucking zoom zoom or 64 baby who cant use R1 and L1 to just fucking circle strafe you god damn retard.

You already know what an ugly janky ass mess sonic adventure is, so i don't even bother. You just pretend not to care because you want to fuck neon animals.

They're all shit, nugamers. Sonic Adventure, MML, Mario 64, etc, etc.
Gaming went to shit in the mid-90s and brainwashed and viral marketed that shit directly at you so you'd think it was good. Way to fall for it, kids.

>>9197665
Megaman needs to transition to 3d like castlevania needs to transition to racing. Megamans heart and soul likes in jumping and shooting (or in Battle networks case, sliding and shooting). MML is fine being the one 3d spinoff series, but Megaman succeeded where sonic failed because it kept the majority of its games on the 2d plane where it was best suited. You can't move megaman to 3d and preserve his shooting without going full FPS, or lock-on targeting like MML.

>>9197786
>I'm not obligated to be invested in this arbitrary competition that you have devised
And yet here you are.

>>9197823
I'm only here to mock you for being an insecure loser. Doesn't it make you feel like a fag to attack other games to increase your weird fanboy ego and victim complex? It's sad.

>>9197859
No, you're here to tell everyone how much you don't care for these arguments, as if anyone gives a shit. You're the only one "attacking other games", go actually play some instead.

>>9196957
are you legit retarded?
MML was a spinoff and you either play it or you don't.
SA was standard and it was garbage. That's all you had to look forward is more horrible 3d sonic games.

>>9197904
I'll take that as a no. But it was a rhetorical question, I already knew the answer. By the way, throwing out these silly no u's doesn't give you a highground, it just makes you seem like a bigger confirmed fag.

>>9196957
It's easy to forget, but before Mega-drought, there were like 5 different MM communities: classic-onlyfags, X/Zero/ZXfags, Legendsfags, BN-onlyfags and BN/SFfags. And while there was some intermingling, Legends wasn't really seen as good series by most people back then, which has only begun to change with the whole Legends 3 shitstorm.
The reality is that it's got a lot of good in it, but the gameplay (especially controls) is far from being stellar, which can spoil the entire package for you.

>>9197810
MML graphics were a style choice, that doesn't make them peak poly graphics. You just like how it looks. Cel shaded, janky realism, whatever are all style choices. Resident evil 1 and 2 would not look good in MML style, it doesn't make them worse.

>>9196957
wtf does this game even have to do with MML

>>9198148
they're both blue protags who became bluer who fight mad scientists who make robots
but i don't there's a mad scientist in legends so yeah

>>9198157
oh yeah and they both had pretty cool 2d resurgences

>>9197486
Just because Spyro and Crash were sold to white slavers doesn't mean there weren't good sixth gen platformers.
>Besides, for Sonic Team it was their first proper foray into 3D.
Didn't they do burning rangers?

>>9197067
The truth is beautiful.

>>9198034
Resident evil 1 and 2 don't look good, period.
>muh backgrounds
The models are trash.

>>9197942
This isn't based on real life at all. Get out of your mons basement already you're 40 years old.

My friends and I pretty much loved all the games.

>>9197174
Do people actually find this picture funny

>>9198665
fucked up when 9faggers have better humor than whatever that's supposed to be

>>9197067
This. Who cares what fat dorky neckbeards on this shithole of a website say about it. Sonic Adventure is a masterpiece of a game, and I'm not afraid to admit that.

>>9199126
Nah

>>9199126
masterpiece of how not to design a game perhaps

>>9197472
This
>>9197494
It's called a cult following

If Megaman X games didnt come out on the PS1 and instead we only got Legends I think people would look at Legends as the same kind of "jumping the shark" thing as they did Sonic Adventure.

It took until Sonic Mania for us to get another proper 2D Sonic after Adventure, with Generations being half of a 2D sonic. Ponder that for a second.

>>9198601
And I loved pretty much all the series too (games is too specific considering that there were quite a few stinkers too), but you're deluded if you think that community was united in any way or that all people who loved 2D platformers in the series were into awkwardly playing attempt to jump into 3D or kiddie deck building battle games. Or that there were never a rift between people who stuck to the classics and those who completely moved on to/started with X series. Not even getting into the gradations, where ZX was thought to be a step back from Zero and stuff.

>>9199293
>It took until Sonic Mania for us to get another proper 2D Sonic after Adventure
Advance series was pretty damn good and even Rush wasn't all too bad.
Not blaming you for forgetting about Sonic 4 or 3DS games though.

>>9199293
People look at sonic adventure that way, because the game fucking sucks. It changed the designs for the worse, the voices are horrible, the graphics are horrible, and every game since has been a broken fucking mess.

None of that applies to MML. Just like nobody hates Mario 64 for "killing 2D mario", which we got none of until NSMB, because people actually like the fucking game.

>>9199304
Every kid i went to school with thought mega Man 8, Legends, and X4 were cool as fuck on the PS1. There was not one single debate over it. Your basing your stupid fucking opinion on internet forums where people argue about which anime character has better nipples.

>>9199337
Somehow I doubt that, but I'll give you a benefit of the doubt and say that you were lucky with a personal experience. Especially with how you got kids who had the all three games and all that.

>>9199336
>It changed the designs for the worse, the voices are horrible, the graphics are horrible
Thanks for a laugh.

>>9196957
Why do we always have a thread for this crap?

>>9199353
We shared our games and went to eachother's houses you fucking idiot. I had Legends, my friend Ryan had 8, my friend zack had X4. We rented tron bonne from blockbuster 1 time while staying the night at this other kids house.

Derp.

>>9199356
You laugh at common sentiment that 99% of people share?

>>9199561
Pretty sure that even half of that is an overestimation, especially in a current world where normalfags loved the new Sonic movies that go more for right than left.
Also, talking about that pic, left is a boring and static 3D-ish look that does a disservice for a classic design, while the right goes for an actual dynamic pose representative of a character. Maybe should've gone for Sonic CD FMV or the OVA or even Man of the Year short from Sonic Jam.

>>9196957
I like both games a lot. Sonic Adventure gets shit because people have generally only played the buggy and shitty PC port.

>>9197681
You're unfamiliar with the background. Capcom dropped Mega Man as a AAA franchise because Inafune declared that Japanese games were dead. Obviously he was fucking wrong, and he almost crashed Capcom as a result.

>>9199884
DX is a downgrade in general, not just the PC port.

>>9199895
True, I just assumed the PC version is more popular and informs more opinions than the GCN version at this point (even with emulation)

>>9199959
A dumb assumption based on literally nothing.

We've been saying this shit since the original release, faggot.

>>9199987
>We've
literally who

>>9199561
This image is complete bullshit, Sonic was always marketed as a rebellious character

>>9199307
I wouldn't count Rush as proper 2D sonic but I forgot the advance games existed, you're right.

>>9200060
There's nothing Rebellious in that photo.

>>9196957
What the fuck does this game even have to do with Mega Man Legends?

>>9199219
>>9199231
You two are exactly the fat dorky neckbeards I was talking about. Seethe more

>>9199561
Literally no one thinks like this except for fat greasy neckbearded classic fag "elitistis" that bitch and cry at any game released past 1998. What makes it even more pathetic is that this demographic are 30 year old, grown ass adult men. And it's always on 4chan too. I don't see this sort of autistic obsession with classic sonic and hatred for adventure/modern sonic anywhere else

tl;dr classic fags are mentally retarded and should be killed

>>9200676

Well no shit zoomer, if all you do is hang out on sonicfag twitter or discord you're not exposed to the people laughing at your shit.

Honeslty who gives a fuck on what people think of your favorite game. If you like it and not be a fag about it, Thats all you should care about

>>9200713
Everyone laughs at the classic fags who are above 30 and seething over childrens games you dumb idiot lmao

>>9200676
try making the games good maybe
and there's good sonic games past 98, and good games in general
it's just not the 3d ones, if sega tried instead of halfassing shit maybe it would be but that's just how it is

>>9200813
>it's just not the 3d ones
not true. You're just a brain-dead biased classic fag who's blinded by your hate. You should kill yourself

>>9200824
oh yeah i'm sure the guy tellin me to an hero is blinded by love

>>9200764
Using the children's game excuse doesn't work when you're defending some pretty mediocre games. Look its nice that you've been masturbating to Rogue the bat since you were 9 and have happy feel-good memories about the Adventure games and think the modern sonic games aren't that bad, thats fine for you. But don't be surprised when you come onto spaces outside of ones filled with people who grew up with them like you, or are already filled with sonic fans, and be surprised or amazed your opinion isn't shared. People have been critisizing the Adventure games since before 4chan existed.
Modern internet is structured so you can go your entire life just encountering people and posts that confirm your opinions and have the same ones as you. If you're not seeing it anywhere else, its because you're seeking out places to talk to people like yourself, even if it's subconsciously.

>>9200547
>>9200676
>>9200764
>>9200824
You are trying to look cool about Sonic the Hedgehog on 4chan's retro board.

>>9200909
>>9201009
>>9201012
Don't care didn't read.

You are a grown ass 30 year old adult man seething and crying about the 3D games in a series for children.

>>9201050
Blatantly obvious considering you think ripping on the adventure games(or modern sonic in general) is exclusive to 4chan. Have fun on discord.

>>9201054
Don't care didn't read you are a grown ass 30 year old adult man crying about Adventure/Modern sonic on a mongolian basket weaving forum

>>9199894
He didn't made Street Fighter X Tekken tho.

>>9200764
Posting lmao doesn't hide the fact that you are an extension butthurt raging furrfag, still crying about how nobody liked your gay furry game from 20 years ago

>>9201050
>>9201068
You obviously care a lot and are being very emotional and insecure that someone said they didn't like your favorite game on the internet. This is really sad. Are you the OP? I'm surprised you're still posting after you got destroyed earlier >>9197463

>>9197810
It looks like shit and you're mentally ill

Sonic was always more about pinball physics than brainless speed. The marketing focused on speed but the games did not. Boost and Adventure are not classic Sonic logically translated into 3D, they're gotta-go-fast simulators with a sonic skin. Instead of physics-based platforming you just spam homing attack. Instead of earning speed through maintaining momentum as you run and bounce through an obstacle course, you just push up and hit max speed in 1 second, then proceed to watch some auti-pilot bullshit until it's time to mash homing attack again.

>>9196957
people shit on sonic adventure acting like other games of its era don't have gaping flaws while still being considered "beloved".

>>9201357
He pushed for shit like Bionic Commando (2009). It was thanks to the ideas he was pushing in the company that we got Donte the Demon Killer.
SFxT is at the very least a fun game (after patches) when you look past monetezation model and other dishonest practicies they tested with it. And it did well enough commerically not to be a flop, if you set aside unrealistic expectations of it selling like SF4 and Tekken 6 combined, while ignoring that quite a few people play both, the fact that it won't appeal quite as much to Tekkenfans due to core gameplay differences, the fact that they teached people to wait for updated versions of same games and a lot of other things.

>>9197815
>Megaman needs to transition to 3d like castlevania needs to transition to racing.
If you weren't joking, I'd agree with you 100%

>>9201982
>Road Rash, but you play as Simon Belmont on a horse whipping right and left
FUND IT!

>>9202003
This is the most based idea I've ever heard on /vr/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxr56SQqujE
Keep on thrashing brother

>>9196957
Sonic adventure= best game ever

>>9202013
Based track

I'm playing it for the first time and if there is one word that can describe this game it would be "jank". I'm not that far in, still have Sonic's route to finish but here are some of my non nostalgia tainted thoughts.

Cons:
>30 fps for a game about "going fast" is simply unacceptable, certain sequences are borderline unplayable
>the camera is all over the place and regularly glitches into geometry
>imprecise controls
>janky combat, janky platforming, janky running in a straight line
>bosses are a joke

Pros:
>great atmosphere, central hub is comfy
>game has insane charm
>low poly qts are cute

>>9202160
Only talking about the dreamcast version? I played it on the gamecube back then it was 60fps and it ran fine, I know some people criticize the gamecube graphics to be fair.

>>9202173
Yeah Dreamcast version. Honestly eventually you get used to the framerate but first few stages are very rough and made me consider dropping it. GameCube is 60fps but from what I heard the port is messed up and I wanted to try the Chao VMU minigame.

>>9202189
the port being messed up is more of an exaggeration, yes the graphics are worse in some ways but ya nowadays i just use the steam version which lets you mod all the dreamcast stuff back in w/ widescreen.

>>9202195
Based

>>9201050
If you didn't read the posts how did you manage to reply to them? Did you just come into the thread, randomly click on a few posts and then reply?

>>9196957
I like them both, but I just finished MML yesterday. It's actually better than I remembered when I was a kid. One of the best adventure games on the PS1 by far.

>>9199894
But he didn't make that decision in a vacuum, things led him to believe that, and Mega Man Legends series underperforming its expectations is just a fact. Inafune even said so in an interview: https://www.gamespot.com/articles/tgs-07-mega-man-celebrates-20th-anniversary/1100-6179759/

It's hard to take one of these pieces of info without the other as context.

>>9196957
2000s Sonic was a mistake

>>9197815
You obviously don't know what Mega Man is. It's a shooter combined with a platformer. Mega Man could be an open-world TPS and unless it was severely fucked up people would say "yes, this is Mega Man in 3D."

Obviously the series is basically vestigial so it doesn't matter, but it could have been done.

>>9196957
Fewer people even tried playing megaman legends.
Sonic Adventure was the flagship Dreamcast title. So it being bad is a bigger deal.

>>9196957
It gets shit? That is undoubtedly peak contrarianism. I've played hundreds of vidya games and Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 both rank in top 10 singleplayer ones

>>9203710
Post age.

>>9203854
Im going to start saying this anytime i see some retarded stealth zoomer post.

>>9196957
No one cared about Legends.

You NEED to play the PC version.

There is no excuse.

>>9205368
Finally, a sane fucking anon.

>>9197153
Sonic and Megaman did nothing wrong.

1. Legends was a clear spin-off
2. Mega Man games were never massive sellers, so more eyes were on Sonic which generally sold more

There should be an analysis of what happens when kids who grew up on the Adventure games and modern sonic end up getting shellshocked when they enter discussion spaces full of older people and realize the games weren't entirely well received. As someone who grew up with them,liked them (and still does, flawed as they are), but was using forums like The GHZ even back then I got a thicker skin because from DX on I've seen a shitton of criticism over them.

because sonic went to shit afterwards and the negatives of the game are greater in hindsight as a result. If sonic 3d games had got better and better SA would look like a flawed but overall successful transition to 3d, but looking back on it now everything shit about modern sonic is present in this game.

Legends got fucking slammed on release, its review range is something like 3/10 to 7/10. What the fuck was OP talking about? Legends was an unfairly hated game.

Sonic Adventure fans have to be the most autistic people on this board

>unironically believe that Adventure was a misunderstood masterpiece and would have been compared to Mario 64 if not for unfair anti Sega bias
>unironically believe the Dreamcast was comepeting with the PS1/N64 at all and not next gen consoles
>unironically still fighting a console war that ended well over 20 years ago now

It's pathetic

>>9196957
Couple reasons for this.
First of all MegaMan legends isn't far shittier. And quite a few bad sonic games did come out later. And not even mediocre, but genuinely bad like 06 and Shadow. I feel this helped create the market for shitting on the games by future internet funnyman game reviewers, which I'd say contributes to a lot of Sonic's bad reputation (and certainly the origin of the mouth breathers who say "Sonic was never good"). Meanwhile MegaMan (aside from 9 and 10) kind of died around the time these ""reviewers"" and ""let's players"" that parrot "Sonic bad" became popular, so they weren't going to shit on something that isn't as much in the public eye. Finally, there's the fact most of these youtubers talk only about the DX port, or one of the subsequent versions, which are worse in about every other way besides the frame rate. Hell a lot of the ""bugs"" they complain about are only in the DX port. But more things to complain about works great in the YouTube economy.

Sonic's concept is just doomed because the levels need to be big as hell and they're over quickly. sonic needed multiple objectives in the same stages more badly than mario did. that's the only reason they made 5 other characters to run around the same 10 (11) maps. BIG stages suck fucking dick and that can never be overstated. it absolutely kills the entire vibe of the game. i imagine hundreds of players never saw super sonic because of it

>>9196957
Legends is safe, doesn't try anything new and sticks to that formula, while adventure takes more risks and not everything is perfect.