/vr/ - Retro Games

Looks good on 900 TVL PVM.

>>9164958
I have a carefully curated list of youtubers that all say PVM's are the best. Sorry buddy but you are dead wrong

People can play and enjoy their games however they want.

>>9164958
That's a closeup though. Doesn't really say much about how the entire scene looks.

You could zoom in further - down to a single pixel for example - and compare how the pixel looks on a PVM versus a consumer TV. But that doesn't really mean anything.

PVM is too clear for me. Might as well emulate on an LCD if you want everything to be razor sharp.

My SSM has 500 TVL and it's far and away my favorite thing to play retro games on. Looks great to me.

>>9164958
That's a terrible example to use, if any generation of games benefit the most from having ultra-sharp pixels without any concern for blending it's the 8-bit generation and earlier. It's 16 and beyond where the benefits of a sharp picture with clean rgb/s-video starts becoming debatable.

>>9164982
>Might as well emulate on an LCD if you want everything to be razor sharp.
I want to play my original consoles on a display which provides a sharp picture, minimal input lag, and a proper 240p/480i image. LCDs can't do that.

>>9164958
Based consumerbro, left just gives me arcade vibes (a good thing!)

>>9164958
The 600ish line look isn't bad by any means IMO, but yeah, low TVL is best TVL.

>>9164974
based

Even at insanely high TVL, a bit of horizontal blur can work wonders.

As the developers intended.

>>9165087
Inventor of Famicom confirms RF is the only correct way to play.

I have an kv fs100, some shadow mask security monitor, a 14m2u, 14m4u and a D series BVM

My favorite is the 14m4u. Clear and crisp and the perfect size. Crts are more than about the scanline, it's the motion clarity. Looks gorgeous

>>9165042
I sometimes think to myself, these one word "based" posts are basically shiddit refugees who want to "upvote" a post but they can't, so they make due by making these stupid worthless contribution of a post. You aren't clever. You aren't funny.

Imagine what an improvement if typing that led to an autoban. A wordfilter too.

>>9165116
It's essentially just a "I agree" reply. Nothing to seethe and dilate over.

>>9164961
Based. But the number of subscribers is also important. Otherwise, your argument becomes weak.

>>9165093
Wow looking at this pic you have to admit the famicom was a pretty amazing machine for the time.

How about linedoubled on a shadow mask 31khz monitor?

>>9165116
Based.

>old crt explodes and sends shattered glass out like bullets
how do you prevent this?

>>9164958
Just let those retards waste a lots of money in CRT's with dying gas and lifespan.
They are all about being elite and not playing games at all. They don't understand that the games we used to play were designed with consumers tv in mind, not stupid shit from TV studios.

>>9165154
You set up bullet-proof shielding infront of the screen, obviously.

>>9164958
I like scanlines but PVM scanlines are too solid and thick, I don't want lines coming across the image, it's like looking at a window blind. I'm too fussy, even a Trinitron wire bothers me.

>>9165125
That looks like a comfy room at nintendo HQ. Their arcade hits and the early famicom titles neatly arranged in front of you.

>>9164974
Wrong actually

every time a see these cope threads I throw my head back and laugh
PVMs don't look like your shitty digital photo you took 2 inches away you moron

>>9165237
actually factually not

>>9165128
It can look bretty gud, at least on games with simpler graphics.

>>9165125
Not as good as the ZX Spectrum admittedly.

>>9165116
this

>>9165116
>faggit redditspacing retard who gets upset over common chanspeak lingo calls others redditors
the irony

>>9165587
I sometimes think to myself, these one word "this" posts are basically shiddit refugees who want to "upvote" a post but they can't, so they make due by making these stupid worthless contribution of a post. You aren't clever. You aren't funny.

Imagine what an improvement if typing that led to an autoban. A wordfilter too.

>>9164958
>retro games look good
You're dumb. You don't play retro with your eyes, you play it with your heart.

>>9164958
I'm always thankful I don't have to nitpick details of CRTs so minute that I would only notice if I were pressing my face against the CRT trying to get radiation doses.

>>9164992
the problem I have with high TVL is that jaggies are very obvious, especially at 240p

>>9164958
Play it the way it was intended. On a normal CRT with composite or RF depending on the console. If you can't use a CRT, get a RetroTink 5x, hook the console up over composite and use filters.

>>9164958
You're an idiot if you think Super Mario Bros. is a definitive example. You're a double idiot if you think all retro games were designed for the same kind of video signal and CRT.

>>9164958
Two famous arcade monitor series, the Nanao MS8 and MS9, both have very clearly defined scanlines. And the arcade games of the time were intended to be seen in RGB.

Pic related. One of the most classic fighting games in history on its original, Capcom-intended arcade monitor. This is also how basically all Neo Geo games would have looked in Japanese Neo cabinets.

>>9165034
I thought consumer CRTs were the way to go until I saw a 600TVL PVM in person. It honestly is beautiful, and makes 16 bit games look borderline 3D and real, an effect I never have seen with any PVM filter let alone a consumer CRT. The scanlines were also not pronounced at all.
I don’t think a higher TVL screen would be such a sweet spot, but I’ve been convinced that 600TVL PVMs are far better than consumer CRTs.

>>9165874
this looks similar to my tube when I use RGB

>>9165874
Both of my western arcade cabinets have very obvious scan lines as well. They are the generic Wells Gardner used everywhere in the west in the 90s.

As a kid we knew what good monitors looked like because we always had arcades with RGB, even if our home consoles were RF or composite.

>>9165237
This

>>9164974
You are correct.
A person should play the game in whatever style they wish.

>>9165116
Hi. I'm the one who posted "based" and I did it because I wanted to let anon know that I agreed with them. I can elaborate a little more. I think people should be allowed to play games in whatever way they want. There is only problems when ganes are forced to be a specific way. For example, the various ports of pixel art games that have forced smoothing filters thay you cannot disable.

>>9165116
Youre being autistic, people have typed that kind of shit since the beginning of forums. They would just write "This" or "Epic", "based" is just the more recent variarion of that

>>9164993
Plasma HAHA

>>9165857
This video games look best on normal CRTs also it cheaper.

>>9166126
Retro games actually unironically look pretty good on plasma cuz it that kinda inbetween of LCD and CRT.

>>9166135
no, they look alright for PS3 and 360 but only if you have a Panasonic Viera

>>9166168
I had Samsung from 2007 that sadly got busted during moving sadly and most stuff I played on it looked fine maybe not as good as CRT but look almost kinda emulatorish and since plasma has scanlines just not as big ones old games still looked pretty good.

>>9166171
Plasma does not have scanlines
they do have some weird sort of film grain effect due to how it works

>>9165874
Here's an MS9.

at this point i just figure pvms are for autists that dont want to emulate but still want to play on console for ""crispy graphics"".
I dont even really play with rgb too much anymore, too sharp for 99% of games that really would benefit from composite and scanlines. Though itd be nice if scanline emulation were better.

>>9166435
I like s-video, still have bright colors and minimal artifacting but with a bit of softness on the edges.

>>9166437
yep, i only have s video for my n64 though. Been meaning to look into that, it was a very very nice middleground for n64.

>>9166438
*looked into my cable, insurrection industries says it works for gaycube and super nintendo, freakin sweet will be trying that in a bit.

Everyone knows the correct way to do it

>>9166449

>>9166458
Based

Not only they look good, PVMs are also really easy to TATE so I'm using one for shmups specifically.

The problem with that mario pic is the RGB mod on the NES, not the PVM. PVMs still got composite inputs, you know.

>>9165857
People always bring up the fucking waterfall but that example is really specific to genesis in particular. SNES got a much cleaner composite out so even when some games try to do dithering tricks on it you can clearly see the pattern anyway

>>9165093
Famicom should, canonically, be played on an approximately 13” display for best picture quality.

>>9166619
the central point is the dithering used on basically everything during this era, there isnt a single console that doesnt utilize dithering to give the illusion of more color/shading in areas were it wasnt possible. The SNES utilizes it too it just doesnt have shit composite out like the genesis does.

>>9166636
Dithering was used on anything including PCs with RGB monitors, shit signal smushing everything is not necessary for the illusion.

>>9166667
Dithering is more a matter of monitor size and sharpness, not video signal
You can find ancient forum threads where people complain that their newer CRT monitor makes the dithering too clear

>>9166667
>>9166685
yeah dont quote me word for word, i just have the basic understanding of why it was used.
Though quote me in saying 90s pc games with that dither look are objectively better than modern clean styles.
>tfw not autistic enough to want to own an actual pc-98

>>9166703
>hey boy
>not oi bruv

>>9166619
Nope, the snes rarely if ever does lined dithering like the MD
Any cross pattern dithering shows up as the intended transparency

>>9166703
Actual PC-98 (and X68000) are extra problematic since they used 24KHz monitors and you pretty much can only find them in Japan. So your options are either somehow import 20kg monitor or fuck around with OSSC (might as well just emulate in the latter case)

>>9166798
>or fuck around with OSSC (might as well just emulate in the latter case)

literally having a moment like this today/recently, realizing the ossc was kind of a waste of money because of how many accuracy benefits composite is having + shouldve sprung for some form of decent crt monitor something to pair with it. Crisp pixels are nice dont get me wrong, but if im not trying for an accurate setup why not just emulate at that rate? i realize that now with the desire for 1080p perfect sharpness setups in the community now. I fell into it hook line and sinker and feel kind of dumb knowing i couldve/shouldve started at composite.

>>9166824
They make sense if you're a speedrunner and absolutely have to use the real thing but otherwise it's a lot of extra circuitry to get the same result as emulator.
I don't regret having mine, though, still can do a bunch of cool shit like play PS2 on VGA monitor.

>>9166850
>like play PS2 on VGA monitor
hows that experience? ps2 is a big reason id even remotely consider a device like the retrostink 5x with the interlacing problem.

>>9166853
Games that can actually output 480p look beautiful and the scaler is there only to turn component to vga (you can use a cheaper one like GBS-C).
Interlaced games don't look too hot, to be honest, better play them on regular TV.

>>9165237
>akshually

>>9166619
Doesnt SNES have a mild blur filter as well?

>>9166909
Not really. RGB output might be slightly blurry depending on the model but it's not noticeable on CRT

>>9166909
only if you're stretching it to 4:3 on your shitty lcd screen, pleb

>>9166703
>tfw not autistic enough to want to own an actual pc-98
I used to say that. Then it was "I'm not autistic enough to also own an MSX". At least the price is high enough to keep me at "I'm not autistic enough to own an X68000"

>all this autism
just enjoy your games like I do

>>9167260
why do you have blinds on your tv?

>>9166850
>>9166824
You're not getting the same result as an emulator - emulation comes with audio delay (default in RA is 4 frames) and potential additional input delay depending on your setup. You also lose access to console peripherals in some occasions etc

There's plenty of reasons to want to use OG hardware on native screens IMO

>>9167260
Beautiful! Did the devs ever intend more than that?

>>9167403
I use RA and, from the configs alone, the 4-frames audio delay is admitted to happen. However, subjectively speaking, I've never noticed any delay. To me, it's still imperceptible. Should I delve any further into this? What do you do to lower audio delay? Just reduce the buffer?

>>9167535
Not that anon, but audio delay below 30ms or so is nigh-imperceptible unless you're really far from the speakers. You can indeed lower it by reducing the relevant setting in the Latency settings menu, but depending on the audio driver used and your hardware/drivers, it will either not honor a setting below a certain threshold and default back to 64ms, or you'll get slowdown and stutter. On Windows, the best driver to use for low latency is usually wasapi, though it will usually be exclusive, meaning you'll get no sounds outside of RetroArch as long as RetroArch is open. I can usually go as low as 16ms with that driver.

>>9164958
I like the pixels nice and crispy without filtering.

>>9167568
>I like the pixels nice and crispy without filtering.

HOURLY POORFAG COPE THREAD

REMINDER THAT YOU'LL NEVER HAVE A PVM :)

>>9167571
Oh, a basedjack. How original and biting.

>>9166798
There's many multiscan monitors that do 24kHz
Like Amiga used in the west, etc

>>9165874
Yeah arcade games should always use RGB for sure.
But console games should be era-dependant.
NES-Genesis should be RF or Composite
SNES-N64 should be Composite or S-Video
Dreamcast-Gamecube should be Component or RGB

Ultimately I don't care what people play with as long as they don't shit on the way others play.

>>9166264
Arcade monitors also aren't tiny 14" screens meant for video production.

>>9167571
Looks unnervingly real

>>9167564
Thanks a lot! As soon as possible, I'll test here and post if I noticed any difference. Do you know the "best" driver for Linux?

>>9167781
It's usually Pulse. Depending on your distro and setup, alsa or JACK may deliver lower latency, but def try Pulse first.

I use Lakka, which only runs RetroArch and nothing else, and in the very best case scenario, I can go as low as 5ms with alsa, but I have to sacrifice a lot of things for it. I usually leave it at 34ms for that reason.

What are good cable simulation shaders for reshade? I've been winging it with VHS Pro, but it's rather heavy at 1440p.

>>9164974
We will have fun and there is absolutely nothing they can do to stop us.

>>9167794
>I usually leave it at 34ms for that reason.
I use Lakka too. Did you mean 32ms or 64ms? If I'm not mistaken, I probably have my driver set as Alsa.

>>9167895
I meant 34ms. I've found it to be a sweet spot for whatever reason, probably because a frame is not actually 16ms but rather 16.666~, and two frames would be 33.333~ ms, so a setting of 34ms rather than 32 accommodates two full buffer frames.

>>9167928
Thanks! I will try that.

>>9165874
Is that supposed to be Birdie?

>>9167713
Yeah, so people can play games with prominent scanlines without trying to fit gigantic arcade monitor in their room.

>>9167260
Thats disgustinh and so its you for using a 360 pad.

>102 mentally ill replies to a mentally ill thread

>>9166469
You just got WORDFILTERED.

Why are CRT photos always taken from like 2 inches away from the screen? Is the concept of "optimal viewing distance" lost of these fags?

I only play retro games through RF on a 13 inch consumer CRT.
It's authentic and I'm not some "LE BEST QUALITY POSSIBLE NEED TO SPEND A GORILLION DOLLARS ON A SNOY FARTVM WITH COCKPONENT CABLES RIGGED THROUGH A PENIS UPSCALER FOR REDDIT UPDOOTS AND GOLD" tourist
The humblest setups are the best.
Be humble.

>>9167582
Care to name a few model names?

>>9169689
because taking it at a proper distance is actually annoying
it's hard for it to look good due to moire and sync issues as well as brightness and colour due to the fact that it's emitting light
when you zoom in on a CRT, these issues are mostly negated
plus you can just zoom out on the picture to get it look like you want

>>9167691
SNES literally has RGB built in, you clown.

>>9169689
Because it's very hard to take a photo of a CRT that actually looks like how it looks in-person. At a distance you get moire patterns and fucked up flickering due to shutter mismatch and the image looks overexposed because the camera can't adjust properly, etc. The easiest way to actually capture how it looks is up-close.

>>9169689
I thinks its some kind of cope. I mean, if they took the photo from normal paying distance, it would be like "uh-oh, my $1000 PVM does not looks much better than $0 CRT that someone found on the road"

>>9170154
So? No one used anything better than RF/Composite at the time. Unless you're a eurotranny, in which case find your own website.

>>9170618
Some of my japanese friends used old pc monitors to play SNES in RGB. Using RGB was like a subculture there, very common among people that had X68000, PC 98, etc.

>>9164958
No shit. That's why i use a late 2000s model LG.
Slot mask > Aperture grille

>>9165121
How are they benefiting from shilling antiquated tech?

>>9164958
NES dot clock is 1.143
256 x 1.143 = ~292 lines
Assuming no overscan 292 TVL is all you need(with overscan you need even less).

Even the 350TVL in your pic is way too much, especially for non-Mario 1 games.

It would actually be better to make an LCD Shader with 8:7 PAR than a CRT shader.

>>9164979
Scanlines are easily noticeable
Scanlines shouldn't be a thing
Use 300TVL CRT or Shader

>>9171252
>>9171257
600 TVL slot mask is my favourite way to enjoy NES games, using RGB with a composite filter.
Nothing you can do about it.

>>9170694
Same in the west for people who owned computes, everything from Commodore to Apple used 15kHz RGB monitors

>>9164992
>, if any generation of games benefit the most from having ultra-sharp pixels without any concern for blending it's the 8-bit generation and earlier. It's 16 and beyond where the benefits of a sharp picture with clean rgb/s-video starts becoming debatable.
No, you're wrong and you pic looks like a fucking bilinear mess.

You simply emulate a shader with the exact amount of lines that the console is outputting and that's fucking that.
SNES is 292px wide when "stretched" by the console so assuming no overscan with a 292TVL shader you get the most perfect image ever for SNES.

In the future there will be shaders suited to each console and you will wonder how you could tolerated fucking blank horizontal scanlines and ever thought that shit looked remotely acceptable. Mark my fucking words.

Low Res GBA games on a GBA screen don't have any fucking disgusting scanlines and they look fucking perfect for example.

>>9165828
That's because high TVL is completely wrong for low res games since:
High TVL = Smaller dots/lines which results in obvious ass jaggies

>>9165857
>Muh compozit/RF
Shut the fuck up you wannabe boomer
I will find you and I will choke you to death

>>9171272
Real tubes were almost never 1:1
You won't get the same effect

>>9170618
Nobody used anything better than Composite for Dreamcast either

>>9171264
600tvl looks objectively shit for 240p

>>9171520
that's BS

>>9171520
Well I used S-Video for N64 and Dreamcast.
My big 32-inch Zenith, at the time, also had component which went unused at the time.

>>9171287
Nope, you'll get the same effect and even better.
If you wanna mimick a CRT's shittyness/flaws you could do that.

People need to:
1). Get the stupid "blank scanlines = good for retro" idea out of their head
2). Understand how this shit actually fucking works(i.e higher display TVL than video resolution is wrong and was something you had to put up with but with modern resolutions and shaders you have so much control you can emulate any CRT with any TVL or even emulate low res LCD screens)
3). You should ALWAYS match your TVL with the horizontal resolution of your game/console with the aforementioned methods above that are already a thing to some degree in the fan emulation scene and will keep improving when people realize how this shit actually works.

>>9171530
>>9171542
Yeah so did people with the SNES and Genesis
Doesn't not make them the minority
Heck even well into the PS2 era many people still used composite because "it was good enough"
People mostly started using composite en masse with the Xbox 360 but even with that only those that had HDTV's at the time and wanted HD output. People with CRTs still used Composite with the 360 until HDTV's finally dropped in price in the late 2000s/early 2010s and they could afford to go HD and get rid of their tubes.

>>9171563
Looks like Kega Fusion with 25% scanlines

>>9171575
doubt

>>9166135
The same could be said for OLED.

>>9171575
It's pretty easy to replicate RGB on a PVM with shaders though.

>>9171624
lol, spoken like someone who hasn't seen a PVM
just looks at the colour difference you have there

>>9171665
S'not my fault your monitor is shit.
I've owned a PVM before selling it. They're not actually as impressive as consoomers make them sound.

>>9171624
You haven't used Kega Fusion have you?
Because this is what it looks like with 25% scanlines. No need for shaders.
Anyways, it looks like junk for 240p.

>>9171676
They're good for 6th gen
If you have a rare one that is 250 to 300 lines though those are very good for retro

>>9171676
>They're not actually as impressive as consoomers make them sound.
>posts picture of 9" monitor
lol

>>9171624
That looks like shit, washed out and blurry. Look how crystal clear >>9171563 is and how the colors pop. No shader can match a high quality CRT. It's not just the scanlines, it's the whole package.

>>9171686
Hmm, maybe I found mine a pain to use and I couldn't fix the over scan on mine.
>>9171692
That's clearly 14(13) inches. Wish I took more pics before getting rid of it though. It wasn't bad or anything. But my current consumer set with component is WAY brighter and more colorful.

>>9164958
>bvmemes
IT BETTER COME WITH SOME SOILENT

>>9171701
>washed out and blurry
Not him but, are you watching it full screen on a 4K screen(preferably an OLED)?
Because that's how shaders actually work. They're not photos of a TV.

>>9171703
you're supposed to measure the screen, not the frame lol

>>9171703
literally just destroy and throw away everything left of the monitor and you could not only play video games but maybe even have sex

>>9171701
You actually can get pretty close, it's called HDR, and RA has a fantastic HDR CRT shader, the whites will really seer like phospher, and if you're using a glass OLED panel, you even get that light refraction and hallation of a glass tube. Looks phenomenal, if you have a good HDR 4k TV

The one thing it's missing is the smooth as butter motion clarity CRTs have

>>9171710
pretty sure it was a 14-incher, anon.

>>9171701
He might have bilinear filtering enabled which some shaders have enabled by default.
I just did a quick and dirty "soften + sharpen" on Honeyview on my shit laptop and copy pasted it on mspaint to counter the bilinear effect.
Looks a lot closer to the pvm.

>>9171723
Still looks worse and in motion it would be even more apparent.

>>9171731
Motion has nothing to do with the shaders dumbass.
You can use shaders on CRT too. In fact some people use shaders on VGA Monitor for emulation because they're too sharp/have too thick scanlines.

>>9171741
>You can use shaders on CRT too.
Irrelevant.

>>9171731
Depends on your display.
You probably have a SHIT display and think all shaders look bad because of it. Fucking retard.

>>9171716
>>9171731
That TVL looks like absolute shit. Might as well play on an emulator and use 50% scanlines. Hideous.

>>9165860
>You're a double idiot if you think all retro games were designed for the same kind of video signal and CRT.
Majority of them were 15khz scanrate.
Majority of them were between 200 to 300px wide.

>>9165874
Looks like dogshit
I don't know what Capcom was smoking
Or maybe they didn't really think much about it and just wanted a big ass screen in good condition

>>9171748
Yes, I'm sure your shitty shader and amazing $300 china display perfectly replicates a PVM and high quality video signal. I'll just take your word for it lol.

>>9171745
Actually it's as relevant as you bring up motion when we're talking about spatial filters which has nothing to do with motion.

Motion is addressed by BFI/Strobing/Rolling Scan etc.
For that you need a ton of brightness.
LG CX or C1 OLED yields decent results when used on HDR with shaders and BFI.
The motion is not quite there(3.5ms compared to CRT's 1ms) but it's close and without phosphor trails too and better black levels.

We'll get there eventually as panels get brighter.

>>9171754
Games with larger sprites suffer less but NES games like Mega Man just look awful.

>>9171767
No one that uses shaders even tries to mimic PVMeme trash anyway. Don't you have a CRT General to go to and defend your shitty purchase choice?

>>9171754
Oh look, it's the TVL autist again
do you just shitpost in every thread now

>>9171791
I've literally never done it before. Take your meds.

>>9171785
Or just get a good CRT.
>>9171789
Shitty purchase choice? oh no my $200!! from 2019 how ever will I recover from this purchase? It's haunting me day and night! Just shows where all this pvm butthurt comes from, third world/poor cope is 99% of it.

>>9171814
I already had a PVM. As I stated here.
>>9171676
>>9171703
>>9171719
The display isn't impressive to me. PVM/RGB elitism is why everyone dislikes PVMs. It's not the displays. It's the pretentious fucks that keep insulting how others play their games. Very petty and pathetic attitude.

>>9171550
Real tubes were almost never 1:1
You won't get the same effect

>>9171529
Cry me a river about it

>>9171828
Post picture of PVM with timestamp

>>9165237
based

>>9171785
>Motion is addressed by BFI/Strobing/Rolling Scan etc.
>For that you need a ton of brightness.
>LG CX or C1 OLED yields decent results when used on HDR with shaders and BFI.
Holy cope, as C1 and low TVL consumer set owner, you're either trolling or delusional

>>9171837
Are you a moron? I said I sold it. Learn to fucking read.

I hate the RGB millenial fags at that shitty website and podcast for ruining retrogaming in general with this PVM faggotry.

>>9171870
PVM/BVM fucks are a cancer in this board for sure.
Which sucks, because the displays are awesome for arcade games.

>>9171774
Sonic CD is so fucking good looking, I swear to god.

>>9171715
This. It'll be some time before we get a display that can actually match a CRT's motion clarity, but on the image quality front, we're pretty much already there.

>>9171715
>>9171957
I just thought I'd try and post a picture of what shaders look like in HDR. It's hard to share HDR screenshots and I'm not the best at taking pics of these things but here's the HDR CRT shader in RetroArch on my oled.

>>9172038

>>9172038
>>9172043
Which preset are you using? One of the PVM ones, I presume?

>>9172043
It really does get super bright, and against the inky blacks it even has that same sort of warm glow a glass tube produces

>>9172049
It's in the HDR folder, I think it's the jvc d series one, but I had to fiddle with the settings a bit to get it like this

>>9167691
Every single console you listed can output RGB you idiot

(Other than the NES, but the Famicom can do it so that doesn't count).

>>9171858
Hahah you've never even seen a PVM

>>9171878
Lol what? High TVL slot mask are awesome for arcade
PVM is a meme for arcade games

>>9164974
based

>>9172415
not a lot of difference tbqh

>>9172483
Talk about inexperienced

>>9172230
Who said they can't?
The point of what I was saying is what was the common method of video out for the console at the time.

>>9172415
I never said they weren't? Are people here incapable of fucking reading? Stop assuming shit, you braindead fuck.

>>9172561
You said PVM is awesome for arcade, which is a joke if a thing to claim

>>9172574
It's true. They're closest to the monitors with RGB that real cabinets had. Get your head out of your adss.

>>9164958
Video games are boring since byden voters pretended to play it

>>9172635
Consumer sets with RGB look closer to arcade screens anon
PVM’s actually look closer to computer monitors

>>9172635
Wrong, you realize most arcade CRTs were slot mask?

Wait, do you actually think it's because PVMs accept RGB? You realize any colour CRT can do RGB, right, RIGHT? Holy kek. Even consumer sets in Europe accept RGB, arcade CRTs were no different.

>>9172635
What the fuck do you think arcades used? It was mostly consumer tubes and even electronics, just without tuners and only RGB

>>9164974
they shouldn't tho. i know better.

>>9172230
>the Famicom can do it so that doesn't count
No famicom can do it, it have to be modded to output RGB same as NES. The original famicom is even RF only

>>9167691
>SNES-N64 should be Composite or S-Video
There's literally no reason to use S-Video over RGB unless it's the only input available. It's almost as sharp as RGB but the colors get fucked, so it's worst of both worlds.

Post your marios
Here's mine on JVC TM-H1950C through composite

>>9164974
No, you're only right if you shut up about how superior your method is.

>>9165879
>It honestly is beautiful, and makes 16 bit games look borderline 3D and real
Holy retard

when the vast majority of GBA owners have no use for it?

>>9172870
Uh? I'm a GBA owner who has consumer sets and PVMs

>>9164958
>You're delusional if you think retro games look good on a PVM/BVM.
This, consumer RGB monitors are better for /vr/ than PVMs/BVMs.

>>9171257
Scanlines are very distinctly separated on arcade monitors.

>>9172747
I think he was referring to the Famicom Titler, or at least I hope he was.

>>9173029
Depends on the TVL of the tube
Different arcade machines for the same game can even have different TVL tubes in them thanks to being produced over the years and using different sources

Wouldn't low tvl tube have a loss of detail on 480i games, from dreamcast and on? Like even 600 is not enough to display all 640 pixels in a line.

>>9173437
>Wouldn't low tvl tube have a loss of detail on 480i games, from dreamcast and on? Like even 600 is not enough to display all 640 pixels in a line.
Yeah, there's a sweet spot for everything, there's no universally best option

>>9172768
PVM-14L2

>>9172635
>closest to the monitors with RGB
Well, that would probably be a non-aperture grille RGB monitor produced in the 80s or 90s. They did exist.

It seems a lot /vr/ users think a PVM can only look like the later era 20m4u, 20l2, 20l5, and other related models.

But really these are the lesser sought-after units by long-time CRT enthusiasts. The real grail is the PVM 2950 and its related models. These are the black cube looking PVMs. They have a lower TVL count so the scanlines are not as pronounced on them. Colors on them are just phenomenal, and yes they do have to be seen in person to be believed. For things like CPS2 or Neo-Geo games they are one of the ultimate at-home viewing devices. And I do consider them superior to the original arcade monitors. But they are harder to calibrate and get good geometry on compared to the newer PVMs.

There are also even older PVM models made in the 80s that can accept RGB. The small PVM 1271Q is one of more common ones and are a great budget-friendly entry level PVM to fool around with RGB with. A little too small for serious gaming sessions imo. Then there is the PVM 1910, which has a great look and size. It's only a 350 tvl tube, but with RGB inputs.

>>9173437
Remember that TVL doesn't measure across the full width of the screen.

>>9165128
Play Naomi and Dreamcast games on that monitor to see its beauty.

>>9166798
Most of the NEC and Mitsubishi mult-scan presentation monitors can do 24khz.

>>9173493
Most arcade tubes weren't monitor tubes though.

>They did exist.
Yeah, RGB monitors were far more popular in the consumer market than PVMs, yet thanks to most people talking about CRTs being zoomers and only know about consoles, have no idea about them.

Which is good, they are plentiful and very cheap thanks to that on any used market.

>>9173532
Yeah you usually measure from centre and you measure for the height of the screen, so sides are unmeasured anyways

>>9173554
which are even rarer than multiscan monitors from that period and later

>>9171520
Fuck off, pleb. 2nd thing I bought for my DC after a memory card was an s-video cable. This was in December 1999.

>>9171570
You said "nobody". Not the minority.
Argumentum ad populum is weak sauce.

>>9171665
I -have- seen a PVM. Lots of them.
And I say CRT-Royale can come pretty darn close after turning off the stupid diffusion setting that is default. But you need a decent LCD (or OLED) to start with.

>>9173556
I'll take the 500 TVL 80s monitor tube over the 350 consumer units. 500 slot-mask or shadow-mask looks really really good for arcade games.

>remember building a SCART RGB cable for PS1 with my older brother
>faggot on retard forum decades later claims NOBODY did that

>>9173602
personally I like 600 TVL slot mask monitors more from the same period

>>9164958
lol

>>9173606
I just bought scart cable for my ps1 in a store.
PAL PS1s displayed NTSC games in black and white through composite so we had to use RGB just to play them in color.

can someone explain these tvl bvl things simply for newfag? I only have a syncmaster 755dfx
is it worth it to use at all for these purposes?

>>9173681
It's a specification for CRT TVs, not VGA monitors like yours. Generally not worth worrying about.

>>9173710
Lol? TVL applies to ALL color tubes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_lines

It's just a measurement, like pitch or size.
Applies just as much to VGA monitors as it does to consumer TVs.

>>9173710
>It's a specification for CRT TVs, not VGA monitors like yours.
wrong

>>9173726
not just colour tubes, even black and white ones
literally all crts

I can't, for God's sake, take a good picture. Could anyone share some tips? I'm using OpenCamera on an Android phone.

>>9173760
What display?

>>9173760
manual focus maybe

>>9172768
Samsung TX-P1430

I tried to do a TVL test of my old PC CRT and found that the best it could do was around 800 TVL. Even though it will sync up to 2048x1536.

This was my TVL test method.

1. Make a 2048x1536 .bmp image in MS-paint which consists of 1 pixel wide alternating black and white vertical stripes.
2. Crop this image in paint to successively smaller resolutions 1600x1200, 1440x1080, 1280x1024, 1280x960, 1024x768, 800x600, and 640x480.
3. Starting from the highest resolution work my way downward displaying the test images full screen unscaled for 1:1 pixel mapping to the screen resolution.

My result was somewhere in the 1280x960 to 1024x768 neighborhood. Not sure what really counts as fully resolved.
Hitachi Superscan Elite 20 from 1994.

I tried with manual focus this time. It seems a little better, though the file is too large and I have to resize it. Which tool is better for that? I only know of ImagePipe.

>>9173813
>>9173827
Yeah, many tubes have grille / mask / slots that can't resolve as much as the monitor itself is capable
Hence why image also gets blurry after a specific resolution

Also check out how to properly test >>9173726

>>9173827
>Not sure what really counts as fully resolved.
As long as you can tell apart the vertical lines, it's resolved
There used to be quick and dirty test pictures to get the roughy measurement, it was literally just different verical lines with spacing and the TVL number for the spacing next to them

If you want to know the true TVL for your tube, run it at its recommended resolution and then count with a 1:1 test picture or calculate the recommended pixel : phosphor element ratio from the pitch and size

>>9173838
Is this raw pixels or some shit?

>>9173837
Since 1280x960 and 1024x768 are multiples of 4x3 (320x and 256x respectively) That would mean that in my test the number of horizontal line drawn to the raster would correspond to the same area to be measured in the TVL count. Because you measure horizontally across a distance equal to the height of the picture. Confusing terms, but I think I have it straight.

The tube can for sure resolve 1024x768.

1280x960 looks pretty good too and I can see individual lines, but they are not of equal width. The white lines are wider and the black are narrower even though they can still be seen. So I'm not sure if that really counts for a proper TVL rating.

>>9173852
>calculate the recommended pixel : phosphor element ratio from the pitch and size
So I did this as well and it's been a couple of years and my calculations were pretty rough and guesswork but I had it at about 1000 pixels across the whole screen distance.

Hitachi Supercan Elite 20
Viewable image size 18.7" / 475mm
Dot Pitch 0.28mm shadow mask
Image width 14.96" / 380mm
Image height 11.22" / 285mm

285 / 0.28 = 1017 theoretical TVL (?)

380 / 0.28 = 1357 pixels across the full screen distance.
However, in reality it would be less because CRTs lose focus as you get to the edges of the screen.

If someone could double check me that would be appreciated.

>>9173838
kurobaex from fdroid, 4chan client, let's you resize in it
imagepipe is alright too I think

>>9173917
Thank you!

>>9173925
no problem
just click on the thumbnail after you put it into the reply window, there will be a checkbox for reencode

This was a stealth Motherfucker Mike thread all along

>>9173902
Yeah but the lost focus isn't the fault of the tube itself, so you end up with your theoretical and the actual

>>9173936
Based

>>9173925
also pocket paint from fdroid let's you reencode when you save, but its an editor that even has layers, its pretty nice

>>9173931
I'm testing now. Didn't know KurobaEx was so handy. Thanks a lot!

>>9173982
yea it has many features, which can be clunky
I don't know how often the fdroid one gets updated, but if you get it from github you can use the built in updater

>>9173936
Matei proving he has the correct opinion, again.

>under 350 TVL - 3th gen
>from 350 to 450 - 4th gen
>from 450 to 600 - 5th gen
>from 600 to 800 - 6th gen
>over 800 / plasma - 7th gen

>>9173936
gamer to the bone

>>9174069
lol he's just a guy raging at the screen

>>9166874
it only counts if you start the sentence that way but credit for letting neckbeards live in your head rent free

>>9166020
and it's been cancer from the beginning.
>it's always been like this so it can't be wrong!
Flawed Logic.

>>9174257
>Akshually: part II The Akshualling
we all have a lil neckbeard deep inside who is waiting, alone that mom brings the tendies but they never come.
don't let yourself believe memes always come from a place of hate.

>>9173805
Not 240p

>>9174548
Of course it is, dipwad.
Your brain has been turned to mush by RGBcucks and PVMtrannies.

>>9172862
nopvm cope

>>9164958
NES has a shit pallet.

>>9174717
nah, it just looks shit in RGB

>>9167691
Dreamcast games are made for VGA.

>>9175441
Fucking lier
Had to double check, Dreamcast came with a composite cable

>>9175487
So what, PS1 came without a memory card, did you play every game without saving?

>>9173936
I tried watching his streams once and Holy shit he's a retard. He screams like a fucking autistic maniac just because he dies in a video game, a literal children's toy.

>>9166703
game in your pic is called sekai de ichiban kimi ga suki and it's not on PC98

>>9176365
At first, I thought he was a character, an acerbic remark at "hardcore gamers", but, delving deeper later on, I found out that's just how he is. I almost felt pity for him, but nah... Life's given him plenty of opportunities, he turned out that way by his own volition.

>>9173936
He's a faggot, and yet a man of culture as well.

>>9164958
whats lignes?

>>9171703
hey where can I get a shelf like that? that's cool.

>>9180665
It's not available any but you can search for something similar.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004DEWKQQ

>>9180787
thanks. I have an L-shaped desk and been needing something like this