/vr/ - Retro Games

It's before constantly porting every damn game you have forever.

>>9163135
I never got it. The full source + uncompressed assets probably totaled at most 200GiB of data. It makes no sense to throw it away even if you don't think you're ever gonna port it.

>>9163135
>It sounds like a terribly irresponsible thing to do.
The game was finished, they don't need that shit
Kill yourself cancerous faggot

>source code!!!
Fuck off zoomers. christ.

>>9163135
>>9163135
>Uhh, is that... er... is that a common practise or something? It sounds like a terribly irresponsible thing to do.
It's something that is sadly bound to happen when it comes to preserving just about anything. Digital data is fragile, even when backed up multiple times there is still a risk of loss or corruption. OSes and software change and what might be common one day is archaic and all but impossible to open/use years later. Paper and plastic based documents are susceptible to environmental hazards, being misplaced and/or accidentally disposed of. Storing physical and digital materials requires money as well. An ideal world would have companies/organizations/individuals taking the extra effort, time and money to secure and preserve data but that's sadly not how things work often times.

>>9163286
>>9163306
we get it you worked at a japanese game development studio between 1980 and 2007 now would you mind keeping your source code you chink fucks

>>9163135
Archival practises were still not the best back then, yes.
In the case of 2 (not sure if the code for the others is missing), they do actually have the source code for early builds. Nothing would stop them from updating them to match the final game (or even better). It's just that it's not worth the effort to them and they just released the old build in the hd collection without improving/updating it.

Most media production companies would consider losing any scrap of anything they had ever sunk money into producing beyond the pale nowadays, but it's a relatively recent phenomenon. But even in the 00s it would've absolutely been company policy to retain multiple backups of anything worked on. The philosophy in general is that even though backups can seem like an expensive and superfluous expense for a project that will likely never need to be restored - that expense is a tiny fraction of the amount spent on the actual project (and tape backups effectively last forever if stored properly) so even if it keeps a developer from having to re-code fog physics or an artist from having to make new mossy rock textures or whatever, it's completely worth it.

I think the excuse they used was that they deleted the source codes to make room for new projects but I think it's far more likely that whoever was in charge of data management basically had a premature archive of some earlier code and saw that in the backups before approving the deletion of the source code off the working server, and nobody noticed for 10+ years. 99% of lost assets nowadays come from operator error and people who take some kind of shortcut and work outside the system of safety nets. So for example a scenario like, a dev took a hard drive home with them, did a bunch of work on it, and then left it in their car and it got broken into and stolen - a situation like that is actually fairly common for a project based company with braindead employees who think they're too smart to follow the rules.

So for Konami obviously we'll never know what actually happened, but I'd put my money on it was as simple as
>"Can I delete this?"
>"Let me check."
>*sees a folder in the backup log called Silent Hill 2*
>"Yes, you can delete it."

Just decompile it lol

It's called moving on.

Sorry that konami couldnt know we'd all be stuck obsessing over the same fucking consumerist media all this time later because the entire industry would go to total shit.

>>9163286
>>9163306
/thread/

>>9163286
>>9163306
What is wrong with you? Why are you being so rude for no reason?

>>9163139
You know ports have existed since the 80s right? Do you know how many versions of Street Fighter 2 there are?

>>9163687
>I know more than Konami
Do you anon? There must be a good reason reason what they did.

What are you people expecting to do with source code anyway? Buy another remaster? Fuck off.

>>9163679
People are tired of this board turning into shit.

The source code was probably an abstract mess by todays standards. For any dev house comfortable with working on ports it would probably be better to rewrite with modern tools if you were going to do it any justice.
It would just be used for a shoddy remaster.

>>9163286
>>9163306
the 6th gen really broke the microbrains of this board holy shit

To be fair, Silent Hill is just a walking simulator. There is nothing special about the programming.

>>9163725
It never fully recovered. Some people can try to make it work but the jannies basically alienated half of the userbase because they were too lazy to keep deleting 6th gen threads, yet they ban you on sight now if you dare to complain about the rule change beinging a lot of literal retards and turning some old regulars into literal schizos.

>>9163760
bringing*

And again 6th gen isn't the problem by itself, it's the people and the general situation.

Let me give you guys a little insight from someone who actually wrote a game back in the day, and then tried to archive it for the future. The problem wasn't saving the source code or the assets. It was the build environment. You see, old games rely on old compilers, libraries, and even machines to turn the raw code into a usable final executable. If you lose any of this build environment, your precious code becomes much less useful since you can't compile it. You then either have to try to find the old stuff in an archive or off Ebay, or treat it as a porting project and transplant the old code and assets into a modern build environment. This second option might sound great, but it can be more difficult than it appears. This is because the original code and assets are often tailored to the available software and limitations of the old environment, making them impractical or even impossible to use in a modern one. I faced all this with my own game. I wrote it back in the late 90s, which isn't really that far back by retro standards. And yet, within a decade, it became uncompileable due to me losing the old hardware and software it depended on. Even the old asset files are essentially worthless since they were made for antiquated software that nobody in their right mind would want to use these days (POV-Ray. lol). Some small portions of the internal logic code could be ported, but when you're already rewriting 95% of the game, porting those small sections can be more trouble than its worth. If I wanted to make my game again, I would just restart from scratch in a modern engine. So there you go. Saving the code sounds great in theory. But in practice it's much more complicated than that. And that's why I don't blame companies like Squaresoft for just throwing up their hands and saying it's not worth their time and money.

>>9163775
>a little insight from someone who actually wrote a game
Don't think I want to read your lies

>>9163725
>>>/v/
Go back

>>9163813
Whatever dude. It was a shit game that contributed nothing to humanity, but I made it. Learned a lot in the process. Part of me wishes I could go back and tell my young self not to waste the effort. But I don't think I would have listened. Too headstrong. I really thought I was going to be the next Jeff Vogel or John Carmack. Bittersweet memories.

>>9163848
Come on, spill the beans. If you're going to dox yourself, /vr/ is probably the friendliest board to do it.

>>9163861
I never released it because nobody would want it. Basically just a space invaders clone. Like I said, it was shit and contributed nothing. 80% of the effort went into writing the engine since I started with nothing but a "How to program DirectX" book. Also, fuck DirectX. BTW, perhaps my only brag-worthy achievement was getting Alt-tabbing to work properly. To do that you have to reload all your bitmaps etc. back into memory when the focus shifts back to your game. Even a lot of pro studios either failed at this or didn't bother because it was too hard. I can see why, even with my shit 2D game it was a lot of work. For a proper AAA 3D game it must have been a nightmare.

>>9163135
They lost a bunch of data during the SH2 development. It's normal. I was actually surprised they managed to procure an early build for the hd collection.

>>9163865
Intrerdasting and hilarious about alt-tabbing. I supposed modern frameworks would build in much of that functionality, but a quick goggle of 'unity alt tab game build' brings up 2.9mil results of frustration.
I have wanted to get into game dev as a hobby (I'm a web dev, but do some 3D modelling, music production etc), mainly VR because I think there are so many retro game concepts that were thrown out or lost in the transition to the 7th gen where everything was homogenised with modern frameworks, and they are worth picking up again to prototype for VR games.
The reason I don't is because of stories like yours and it's easier to make money building CRUD web apps for clients than spending 2-3 locked away working on a project that may gain no traction at all.

>>9163286
>The game was finished

>>9163760
It's funny you mention jannies, my only legit ban was on vr for flamewar (wtf that means) after complaining about getting a warning for low quality posts (a Sega system joke). They are quick with banning now, but spam is still cool site wide. I'm not too bothered by 6gen stuff since it's cool but I guess the change was a negative looking back now.

>>9163276
I’m gonna let the obvious ass-pull on the 200GiB go, but how expensive do you think storage costs for games back in 90s and 00s were? People reused hardware/storage for new projects.

>>9163909
Finished, as in "it was released to retail stores". Only nerds give a shit about unused content.

You already made the game who gives a shit

>>9164223
/vr/ jannies are humorless.

>>9163679
how would we be able to tell he's a SERIOUS and MATURE and EDGY gamer otherwise?

>>9163135
Yeah.
The only reason the Mana Collection happened (and is a switch exclusive) was because Nintendo keep the source for the mana games but Square-Enix didn't.
>>9164372
Lol this is Konami, not a small indie company like gamefreak or falcom. If they did that was for cutting costs, not because they couldn't afford storage.

>>9163760
i absolutely cannot wait for gen 7 to be added to the board so i can watch the boomers meltdown. not long now.

>>9163815
you literally can't make me

>>9164404
Eh the Sega system joke is kinda important to me since I really noticed it right after I got a master system a few years back. I guess we got a master system fan here now lol.

>>9163552
Really no one could predict games would stop being good in 2007. Back then everyone was hopeful for the future.

>>9164417
7th gen will never be retro, no matter how much time passes. We're still stuck in 7th gen.

>>9163135
They did keep it? It's just that whoever archived it archived incomplete builds instead of the gold master that's meant to be shipped to retail stores.

>>9163319
Great post. Thanks!

>>9163775
this so much this ideally we'd just have virtual machine with the OS and all the tools necessary to build the game but it'd take effort

>>9164372
Why not store it to tape? You have at least LTO-1 at the time of Silent Hill 2.

>>9163135
Basically this:
>>9163447
>it's a relatively recent phenomenon.
I'm apparently one of those 'data hoarder" faggots who never deletes anything ever so I remember reading an article about the Panzer Dragoon and being shocked to hear deleting source and game assets was standard practice. Think this was probably about 10 years ago

>>9163848
>I really thought I was going to be the next Jeff Vogel or John Carmack.
And who told you didn't? Since you're talking about "telling young self", let's just say the future holds good things for you.

t. Someone who knows you very well. ;)

>>9163135
Chinese probably stole it

>>9163687
SF2 is the most popular arcade gale ever made and tf is has to do with Konami.

Imagine having ports of SotN and Vandal Hearts on PS2, LOL zoomer gaming is pathetic.

*game

>>9164474
Could've just filmed a playthrough on VHS.

>>9163135
judging by the number of times people have just found old burned cds with sourcecode on id imagine these companies didn't used to have good planning and management for stuff like that

>>9163697
Do you have zero reading comprehension? I'm addressing his point that it was "before ports were made everywhere" which is demonstrably false.