/vr/ - Retro Games

I've become so much like Shadow the Hedgehog it's scary. I wear black and red, verbally assault black creatures, and take candy from babies. When I look in the mirror, I can't help but say "THIS IS WHO I AM!".

>>9124162
I found you, faker.

>>9124161
The Sonic canon died with Sonic 06' because it was the first game Sega really wanted people to forget about.
Almost all of its aesthetic choices, and story bits are forgotten (and for a good reason).
All the preceding titles could've been considered as a kind of chronological continuity, while everything after 06' began to be treated as self-contained "adventures" with various character cameos here and there.

>>9124195
>story bits
*beats

>>9124161
It starts with the first game and keeps going from there. Much of the canon for the earliest games in the series was in the manuals rather than the game itself.

Spinoffs and adaptations aren't canon, this includes but is not limited to anime, cartoons, comic books, movies, and more.

If you live in a different market (America, Europe etc), understand that the canon was heavily changed in your market. You have one version of the canon and you might consider it "better" due to nostalgia, but it's not the original plans by the developers of the game and no amount of cope is going to change that.

> this mother fucker dies in sonic adventure 2

That's actually explained in the next game in the series.

I will level with you though, I personally consider the entire universe to end with Sonic Adventure 2 just because it feels better to pretend that there weren't any more games in the series after that. The original Mega Drive games, the 8bit spinoffs, The games on the Saturn and Dreamcast are all great. Actually the games on the GBA and the Gamecube are good too (Technically there's only one if you don't count collections and spinoffs. But I never played 06 and everything I played that came after 06 was really underwhelming (Unleashed, Black Knight, Colors, etc). Generations and Mania were ok but it's mostly a rehash of older content so of course it's ok. This is probably a controversial take around here, but basically Sonic died when Yuji Naka left Sega and you know it's true.

If there is any demand for it, I am willing to translate all of the Japanese manuals from the first game up until Sonic Adventure 2, spinoffs included.

>>9124161
the 16 bit games are one thing and after that they just made a separate universe to do dumb shit in, where a couple of the games have connections but it's whatever really

>>9124281
>the 16 bit games are one thing and after that they just made a separate universe to do dumb shit in
No they didn't. Sonic Adventure picks up and continues the story where 3K left off. It explores a lot of the story ideas from 3K that are mentioned in the manual like the Echidna clan. In 3K we only see Knuckles who's the current guardian of the Master Emerald, but in Adventure we finally get to see the actual clan and learn more about their relationship to the Master Emerald. Did you even play the games?

>>9124161
It's a case where the fans care far more about the continuity than the actual SEGA staff who retcon things at the drop of a hat, don't worry about it too much

>sonic canon
...it's a fucking videogame, not a fucking story. Brainwashed kids. Go watch TV if you want stories.

>>9124332
>it’s a fucking video game, not a story

Why are you posting on this board friend

>>9124336
Because /vr/ is supposed to be about gaming before the whole fucking style over substance LOL WE NEED COMPLICATED FUCKING STORIES INTERRUPTING OUR GAMEPLAY EVERY TEN SECONDS shit pseudo-games, you fucking /v/ child.
Proof that /vr/ should be only good, true 8/16bit gaming before the mid-90s came along and fucking ruined it.

Sonic doesn't have a canon. They just do whatever the fuck. They can't even decide if Robotnik is his real name.
And before you go all autistic on me, yes, he was introduced as Dr Ivo "Eggman" Robotnik in that first run of early 00's games. This has nothing to do with Archie.

>>9124162
Based.

Canonfags/storyfags and muhtimeline 'tists are the fucking worst part of literally every single fandom ever. You killed Sonic. You killed Zelda. You killed Metroid. You killed Castlevania. And you killed others.
And now, you wanna dig up the corpses and violate them further? Yeah. Nah. Fuck you.

>>9124202
>That's actually explained in the next game in the series.
No need to translate manuals, just explaining this will be enough.

>>9124162
Have you found the damn fourth emerald already?

>>9124161
sonic heroes and shadow the hedgehog are direct sequels to sa1 and 2, but most people will never know this since these games suck
they pretty much exist to expand shadow's backstory

Shadow's character was okay until the ambush scene where he shows up to sonic's crew and says "nice cock".
It's like, what were they fucking thinking?

>>9124951
That was a peak point of his character development, wtf you're talking about

>>9124397
How did they kill Metroid? It took them like 15 years to make another game that took the story into account, and it was a good game.

>>9124951
WHAT? What game is this from?

it's just aggressive autism over green eyes. everyone with eyeballs and a functioning brain can see sa1 as a directly sequel to 3&k but autists have spent decades now ignoring reality because sega didn't cater to their imaginary version of the sonic canon where he's a fat, short, personalityless mute who doesn't have any friends. doesn't help with generations, mania and now the cd demake in origins actively pandering to these retards. sega knows they're a solid supply of neetbux.

>>9124996
So how the fuck is Heroes in the same universe, when it looks nothing like the Sonic Adventure universe? How is Unleashed?

le how the fuck is 3&k in the same universe, when it looks nothing like the sonic 2 universe?? checkmate neurotypicals

>>9124970
>M1: turn on the NES, press start, go shoot shit
>M2: turn on the GB, press start, go shoot shit
>SM: turn on the SNES, press start, read 38 hours of storytardation followed by 87 hours of a nothingburger spacestation followed by a cinematic boss "fight" which has no purpose other than muh story then go back the way you came and go shoot some shit
>MF: turn on the GBA, press start, sit through 249 weeks of storytardation (muh Samdam love story or whatever) followed by a nothingburger hallway with nothing to shoot until you get literally locked in a room to be subjected to another 64 hours of storytardation before you can finally walk down more hallways and go shoot shit (until the next time they lock you in another fucking room for more story time then walk down another fucking hallway)
I refuse to play anything newer from the Metroid series after that hallway simulator shitshow MF turned out to be.

Fuck you.

>>9125013
I mean, yeah, you could argue there's only the vaguest impression of "canon" in the original trilogy too. Especially if you start factoring in CD and Chaotix, and things like Spinball or 3D Blast. Did those games all happen? Does it matter? No, not really.
I know for a fact Sonic 2 was already retconning Sonic 1, by adding a 7th chaos emerald.

>>9125028
or there was just another chaos emerald. actually contextualizes why sonic can't go super in 1.

>>9125025
You can not like Fusion if you want, but then all of the Metroid Prime games happened, which are basically irrelevant to the larger canon, and then there's Dread, which is a sequel to Fusion, but is also way more reserved than Fusion with the storytelling, and is a good game.
And then I guess there's Zero Mission and Samus Returns which are as straight forward retro Metroid as you can get, and then there shit like Federation Force, if anyone cares.

>>9125036
Or they make shit up willy nilly, and there isn't really a "canon" in any sense that matters.

>>9124294
>>9124996
SA1 is undeniably meant to follow up from the classic games but each 3D Sonic game afterwards drifted further away from the tone and aesthetic of Classic which eventually led to Sega (enabled by the fans) to officially differentiate them. Which Sonic marked a point that it stopped being like "the old Sonic" just kinda depended on the person, I know The GHZ guy called it quits after Heroes but for others it was Shadow.
And in fairness SA1 did represent a massive shift with how Sega handled continuity, trying to unify the lore which had been different across the world and clamping down on Archie's creative liberties (though obviously not enough)

>>9125051
adding to the canon ≠ creating a new one

>they changed one thing so its a new canon
so who's this fox kid following sonic around in 3? obviously there's no context for who he is since there's no canon. though oddly the game seems to imply i already know who he is. how could this be?

>>9125053
3&k had already diverged from the typical classic aesthetic and was all the better for it. i don't understand how everyone isn't sick to death of green hill and chemical plant aesthetics by now. sega has wrung them completely dry.

>>9125057
I don't think there even is a canon. Is there anything about Sonic that is set in stone to the point that it could never be changed?
Apparently the rules on how chaos emeralds work has changed, because we went from everyone having a super form in Sonic 3, to only hedgehogs having them.
Sonic's plane the Tornado got destroyed in Sonic Adventure, only to reappear in later games.
Knuckles goes from being confined to guarding the master emerald on Angel island, to that just not mattering, whenever it's convenient.
Are Sonic and Shadow friends? Does this ever stay consistent?
What does Rouge actually want? Does she still work for the government?
Is Mighty the Armadillo part of Team Chaotix, and if so, where is he?

>>9125075
when does the tornado 1 reappear? mania is a retcon and not supposed to take place after the adventure games

they do make shit up and retcon shit willynilly NOW. and that's a reason modern sonic is so shit. it's not what they should be doing and certainly isn't something sa1 did despite a lot of people acting like that's where the split happened (because they made his eyes green).

>>9125084
Tornado 1 appears in at least Sonic Advance, and Sonic Lost World.

>>9125068
Divergence isn't a black and white thing. Arguably Sonic 2 diverged from 1 by adding in Tails. But I doubt anyone but the most extreme, Sonic Retro-lurking autist would actually argue that Sonic 2 is too different from 1.
Each Sonic game kept tweaking itself until eventually we got something that didn't feel like Sonic anymore. Unlike Mario who had Miyamoto to keep things in check (arguably too much, RIP Paper Mario), Sonic went off the deep end.

>>9125086
i think its fair to say the advance games aren't canon since they weren't even made in-house. and the tornado 2's lack of appearance in lost world speaks to my point since sega was really trying to sweep the adventure era under the rug at that point.

>>9125087
Arguing about how much change is too much is different to arguing about whether there's a canon. And yeah, I think when no detail of this particular series universe seems to be properly nailed down or defined, it's hard to argue there's a canon. There's just stuff, that gets rearranged, and reiterated on.

Dune has a canon, because you can't just write a Dune novel where the planet Arakis is made of chocolate cake. It breaks the rules, and I can say this, because there are rules that are properly defined.

>>9125097
its just that the things that autistic fans take issue with as canon are often things that are (or at least were) completely standard for the series. such as sonic having a voice (he always had one) or having friends besides tails (who the fuck do you think he's saving in 1)

>>9125106
See, you're misinterpreting what people are even arguing.
When they say Sonic shouldn't speak, they aren't saying it should be "canon" that he can't speak. They're saying his voice is annoying, and they want to hear less of it.
When they're saying they don't like Sonic's friends, they're saying they don't want the Sonic gameplay that they came for to be swamped in a sea of increasingly unnecessary and creatively bankrupt characters. No one has ever said that Sonic should "canonically" have no friends. That's not the argument.

Now can we stop having this tism argument?

>they aren't saying it should be "canon" that he can't speak
yes they are. if they want to get rid of this voice obviously this would be the case. not to mention they literally make this argument because of misinterpretations of the genesis' technical limitations and despite the fact that he talked in cd (not anymore though lel gotta appease them)
>they're saying they don't want the Sonic gameplay that they came for to be swamped in a sea of increasingly unnecessary and creatively bankrupt characters
i think the general reaction to forces has shown that they're not as superfluous as pseudo-purists like to think they are.
>No one has ever said that Sonic should "canonically" have no friends.
plenty of people have said that. sonic 4 was designed around appeasing these types which speaks to my point all the further of no-friends not being good for the franchise like pseudo purists like to imply.

>inb4 pseudo purists actually imply forces is better off for only having 2 sonics playable and not actual separate characters
we've already been over how your taste is shit and all you want out of sonic is him running through green hill and chemical plant over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over

>>9125136
>yes they are.
No they're not. They're saying. They're saying they want to play a platformer, not watch a poorly acted movie, where Sonic behaves like a dated caricature of a "cool guy" from the 90's.
>plenty of people have said that. sonic 4 was designed around appeasing these types
No. No one said that. People said they didn't want Shadow and Big the Cat. No one ever said they didn't want Tails or Knuckles. Even Sega seemed to understand their mistake when Sonic 4 Episode 2 came out, since Tails was in it.

wait i forgot the avatar which is just boost sonic with a pointless grapple

>>9125157
what are you their fuckin representative? i have seen with my eyeballs plenty of takes like this and your blind insistence otherwise isn't in any way convincing

>>9125154
No one's saying this. The best Sonic games let you play as multiple characters. They also let you not play as multiple characters, and don't include a bat with jiggle physics as a character.

>>9125162
plenty of people say that. though i agree about how they should be playable. and rouge is cool, only coomers see her as walking tits

>>9125161
Bring these people to me, and prove they don't live exclusively in your head.

>>9125165
or you could just look at takes in other sonic threads on this very board
>bring someone to me over the internet
i don't speak autistic

>>9125164
I hate that whole "ara ara" archetype. It's like someone's embarrassing aunt. Makes me cringe.

>>9125173
No, bring those people to me. find me the retro Sonic purists who think Tails shouldn't exist.
I'm on this board all day. I know people don't post that.

>>9125178
she isn't the ara ara archetype. she's a spy movie fem fatale type. quit projecting twitter porn onto her.

>>9125097
Oh for sure, yeah I was getting off track here. I think after Shadow they stopped trying to maintain some canon and just went with whatever the execs fit best. Like Classic Sonic and Modern Sonic were originally the same character but Forces retconned them into being from entirely different dimensions so Classic Sonic could be in without another time travel plot and because Sega wants to keep "Classic Sonic" as a distinct brand or some shit.
>>9125157
>>9125162
There's always this one autist in these threads that neurotically defends Adventure era Sonic and will read your posts in the worst possible light. Canon is important to Adventure era Sonic so they'll defend it to the end of time, just don't engage with them.

>>9125183
I don't think there was ever canon. Even in the games, there doesn't seem to be much of an attempt to maintain canonical consistency. Is Casino Zone actually canon to Sonic 2's plot? A giant casino, that seems to be designed specifically for Sonic to launch himself around in oversized pinball machines? Why?

>>9125183
i'm really a 3&k autist who sees how sa1 carries it forward and am sick of internet retards pretending otherwise. your actual take is pretty accurate i'd say though i think it was moreso the reaction to 06 that caused a clusterfuck within sega of what sonic was supposed to be and eventually led to this. though i wouldn't be surprised if some of the classic sonic pandering is to appease the older fans who REALLY didn't like shth.

>>9125194
its an intentional distraction built by eggman. if he can't kill him, might as well get him addicted to gambling til he time overs. also explains why he's represented in the slots and what you get out of them 90% of the time

see? its more fun to speculate HOW something could fit into the greater canon instead of just immediately assuming there isn't one. because there clearly is. like what's with all of sega's weird mandates when it comes to sonic? shouldn't they not care?

>>9125227
There isn't though. It's a video game filled with video game levels. Nothing actually makes sense if you pull the camera back a little.

>>9125250
"video game" isn't a valid reason the sonic games have no canon

>>9125194
>>9125250
I guess it depends on how we're defining canon. There's a difference between Sega trying to connect the games in some way, and the plots of said games making perfect sense. Considering that the word "canon" comes from bible studies there's probably an edgy anti-Christianity joke to make there but I'll let someone else do it
>>9125227
I think Penders and the Archie debacle basically scared them from ever letting their writers have freedom again. Considering that IDW is outselling late era Archie, there's not much incentive for Sega to change their behavior.

>>9125267
The fact that nothing is properly defined or nailed down, or the fact that anything seems to be on the table to be changed, if it fits the artistic direction of the current game, would be my argument.
How is there a canon, when we don't even know basic details like what separates anthropomorphic animals from animals animals, and when Eggman can go from a loveable goof to an actual evil bastard, depending on what they're doing with that particular game?
I guess I would have to ask you to present to me the most basic rules of the Sonic franchise. What can't be changed, or written over?

>>9125287
the games not answering specific semantic questions of your doesn't mean there's no canon
>a loveable goof to an actual evil bastard
last time i checked in his very first appearance he was forcing innocent animals into machines to serve as batteries for the rest of their life. sounds pretty evil to me. someone can be likeable and evil at the same time. its why people are so obsessed with characters like the joker.

>>9124161
Every Sonic game after Sonic CD has it's own canon because of time travel. In Sonic CD Eggman discovers how to alter timeline from his experiments on little planet. Events could have occurred similar to other Sonic games within any one timeline but can be slightly altered due to not being on the same world line.

>>9125287
>what separates anthropomorphic animals from animals animals
there is no difference. in the manuals the animal buddies behave in the same way as the playable characters, they're just missing superpowers. not sure where you even got the impression there was a difference. it's not an argument for what you're trying to say anyway. mickey mouse still has a canon despite goofy and pluto simultaneously existing.

>>9125279
see if there were no canon sega wouldn't have cared what archie and penders did with it

>>9125323
So what is canon to you?

>>9125340
Mickey Mouse definitely does not have canon.

>>9125354
ask sega. point is there is one.

>>9125350
They care about brand representation, not canon. They were fine with Penders until they saw Sonic crying on the cover of a comic. Can Sonic canonically not cry? No, but CAN'T cry, because that's not the brand of Sonic.

>>9125359
i think you don't understand what canon means. it's not just the shonen thing where the plot always picks up where it left off.

>>9125370
sonic can cry, he'd just never let the audience see

>>9125363
Define the word canon.

>>9124161
>When does sonic canon start/end?

>>9125374
In a storytelling sense, I would say it refers to a certain rigidity of that universe. All of these stories are taking place in the same place, and the same continuity. There's a certain sense of cause and effect.

>>9125401
>rigidity
just like how sonic is always fighting eggman and minnie is always mickey's girlfriend. there's a canon. the games not autistically over-explaining every single facet of the world doesn't mean there is none.
>cause and effect
the genesis to dreamcast games do this pretty clearly. sonic makes more and more friends which is represented in gameplay by more of them being playable and eggman's motivations escalate and escalate from just enslaving animals to intentionally invoking a god of destruction, all escalating reactions from sonic thwarting his plans. these are just two examples. the modern games making the canon all confused are just the result of desperate retcons to appease shitty fans

>>9125438
That's not a canon. That's just a character. You can say Spiderman is always a guy who climbs on walls and fights bad guys, but there are several different Spiderman canons.

>>9125438
It seems to me that in every game Eggman is trying to take over the world, and in every game, Sonic stops him. Is that an "arc", or is that just the same story in every game, because it's that kind of franchise?

>>9124161
>When does sonic canon start/end?
it starts at the genesis games (since they don't really acknowledge the MS & GG games) and goes on from there.

nothing outside the games are canon as far as sega is concerned.

>Is it all linear after sonic adventure one?
the mainline games from SA1 are...
"SA2 > heroes > shadow > sonic 06 > unleashed > colors > generations > lost world > forces > frontiers"

-you also have the storybook games (secret rings & black knight) which are sonic in storybook settings like arabian nights & arthurian legends.

-the advanced games (advanced 1,2,3 & technically sonic 4) which are basically 2D sonic games with a modern spin on them.

-the rush games (rush, rush adventure & the DS/3DS ports of colors & generations) which introduce the boost formula seen in unleashed, colors, generations & forces.

-and finally sonic BOOM (rise of lyric & the 3DS game) which was intended to be a reboot of sonic and tried to be more of a traditional 3D platformer.

...sega pretty much picks & chooses what is & isn't canon (i.e blaze in 06 despite only appearing in the rush games or them referencing secret rings in generations)

>Because this mother fucker dies in sonic adventure 2.
shadow in heroes onward is a clone of the original shadow from SA2 with (most of?) his memories.

>>9125445
yes. the characters. the things that drive the story. you just fucking said that eggman being sometimes a lovable goof and sometimes evil designates a separation in the canon, and now suddenly characters don't matter?

not to mention the succeeding games literally referencing past events. the reason i'm so sure you faggots are really just butthurt about green eyes is because there's no fucking way you van continuously ignore what's so blatantly obvious.

>>9125476
Having a character, and a few established character traits doesn't mean there's a canon. Does Ronald McDonald have a canon?

>Shadow the Hedgehog opening
>moon isn't half destroyed
oh no

>>9125480
a 1999 game referencing games from 1993 and 4 does in fact imply canon retard.

>>9125489
In as much as The Simpsons referencing episodes from the 90's implies canon.

>>9125491
or the fact that you even go back to locations from 3&k. how the fuck else are you supposed to perceive continuity outside of referencing past events?

>>9125498
Oh yeah, Angel Island, which looks completely different.

>>9124195
because 06 was where sega realized that they fucked up with sonic for the most part and most of the games following that were basically designed to be more of a response to criticisms from previous games (i.e. focus only on sonic, design the games around his speed, more 2D segments, etc.).

>>9124342
It's because "Ivo" is "ovi" (as In ovipositor) backwards, and this was CLEARLY ESTABLISHED in the official sonic the hedgehog novelizations of the hype of the games in the mid to early nineties, you turd sucking cuck

>>9125065
My autism forces me to point out this could equally be said of sonic two

>>9125537
yes it could. not to mention they literally changed sonic's design between 1 and 2 as well. but that only matters when they make his eyes green.

>>9125564
Okay. I'm saying Sonic has no canon, not that it has two distinct canons and the cut off point is Sonic Adventure.

>>9125401
How does that not apply to Sonic, though? Sonic 2 leads into Sonic 3: Sonic has the chaos emeralds and Eggman is trying to rebuild the Death Egg after its destruction in Sonic 2. And they were certainly trying to build an ongoing narrative with Shadow, since his own game hinges on you playing SA2 and Heroes.

>>9125594
Yes, but those are the exceptions to the rule. There's no real attempt at world-building anywhere in these games, and most plot points from prior games just get glossed over. There's a whole other set of chaos emeralds called super emeralds. Is that going to come up again? No, lol. Tails is capable to synthesising false chaos emeralds that even have some of the power of the regular ones. Will that come up? Nah.

>>9125608
>everything that proves me wrong is le ~exception to the rule~
>these two things aren't represented in later games so there's no canon
tom bombadil wasn't at mt doom so i guess lord of the rings doesn't have a canon now. you think maybe they just didn't feel like using those plot elements again? though super emeralds were explicitly retconned out becuase hyper sonic is apparently too much like dbz. even though super sonic is much more evocative of dbz anyway. again, modern sega bullshit doesn't say anything about the canon of the old games.

>>9125650
Nigga, they literally explain why Tom Bombadil wasn't at mount Doom.

>Another pointless Sonic thread on /vr/
>Almost 100 posts of autists screaming at eachother
Like pottery, no matter the board.

>>9125660
nigga they literally explain why tails doesn't make a fake emerald again. it literally got sonic killed if not for sonic's own quick thinking. and i think the chaos control he does with it is implied to be because of him, not just the emerald.

>>9125669
How the fuck does it almost get Sonic killed? It saves him.

>>9125667
i have never seen a /vr/ thread without some form of autistic arguing

>>9125675
the event almost got sonic killed, and explicitly because of tails' own stupidity. why would he evoke that trauma making a new one? especially since it doesn't actually work as a real one anyway.

>>9125679
Sonic being flushed out of a space ship by Eggman almost gets him killed. And it did work.

>>9125678
Sonicfags are on another level and they spread like cancer.

>>9125684
it worked because of sonic, and i don't think they ever even divulge exactly why. just one of those parallels between him and shadow the game leaves up in the air.

>>9125695
I think that's your headcanon, man. There's no indication that Sonic doesn't need chaos emeralds at all to make use of their power. A lesser, but still functional one, sure.

>>9125702
that's what i'm saying. it's lesser but sonic still uses it to chaos control, a special power only the ultimate life form could apparently do. its not a blatant function of the emeralds themselves.

>>9125712
but he's still drawing on the emerald's power.

>>9125725
he sure is

I think the more productive question to ask is:
>why should we care about what's "canon" when almost no one involved has given a fuck in over a decade

>>9125743
I would argue they never gave a fuck. Sonic 2 was already playing loose with established lore by having seven chaos emeralds instead of six. That's just how this franchise works.

>>9125757
>maybe i won't get btfo again if i recycle this shitty argument to a different anon
they only even bothered to add an extra one to contextualize why sonic couldn't go super in the first one. it carries the lore over and then adds to it. how is this not an indication of canon?

>>9125768
I think it's because Sonic 2 has has more levels than Sonic 1.

>>9124161
What? His supposed death is directly addressed in Heroes aka the game he returns in and in the game directly after SA2

>>9124195
Sonic 06 does the massive favor of retconning itself during the story actually. So it's less that they choose to bury it and more that the events of the game already made it non-canon anyways

>>9125790
its funny cause it isn't really. sonic's reaction to seeing him is completely inappropriate. he just treats him like a typical side villain and not his friend who sacrificed himself to save the world at the end of the last game. sa2 sonic would be overjoyed to see shadow alive. heroes intentionally dumps previous canon so ps2 casuals wouldn't get confused, or at least that was the idea.

>>9125792
imo they knew it was bad and that they were punting an unfinished game so they quickly inserted elise blowing out the flames of whatever in the story last-minute.

>>9125806
I disagree that sonic's reaction being weird means that they suddenly retconned it. If only because Rogue was clearly confused and part of their reason they're chasing down Eggman in the first place is to find out what happened to Shadow

>>9125806
That's because Sonic doesn't really have canon.

>>9125816
i don't think they full on retconned it but iirc they never even refer to it happening directly and all the characters but rouge don't act right about him being alive at all. i think sega intentionally danced around it since it was the first mainline sonic game released multiplat and they didn't want people who never played sa2 to be confused

>>9125757
That is true but after Sonic 2 they generally tried to keep things consistent. You even have devs back in 1993 talking about the timeline placement of Sonic games. And it becomes more obvious in SA1, since you do need to have some sense of worldbuilding to give the NPCs something to talk about. Obviously the devs would never put lore above the gameplay but that Sonic had some sense of lore & continuity has always been one of the things that distinguished him from Mario, it's why they wrote lorebooks and bibles before even Sonic 1 came out.

>>9125825
They probably just didn't want to address it since it wasn't planned but then Shadow became really popular so whatever.
Though honestly just doing something like
>there was enough residual energy in the chaos emeralds to last just long enough to survive reentry
would have been fine. Also I just remembered that Shadow the Hedgehog also contained the idea / story by making it so Shadow thought he was an android during some of the bad ends

>>9125819
you being one of the ps2 casuals they catered to with heroes makes a lot of sense considering your perspective

>>9125825
>hey didn't want people to be confused

Me, playing the game directly after SA2:
Who the fuck is Chocola

>>9125839
For me it was Cream, Big, Omega and all of Team Chaotix since I had only played SA2 at the time, ha.

>>9125839
yeah it was a stupid decision. not to mention cream being there with no context etc.

>>9125806
>ps2 casuals
>as opposed to the gamecube, the hardcore gamer console of choice
lol, yeah let's add console warring into this shit thread
Sonic fights Shadow because they wanted a boss fight to happen, characterization be damned. Same reason why you have Amy and CREAM of all people willing to throw hands unprovoked

>>9125847
didn't mean to console war, just saying the average ps2 consumer probably wasn't super familiar with sonic, or at least that was sega's perspective at the time

>>9125843
It was even worse for me since when the game got released for PC, there were pirate versions with all pre-rendered cutscenes removed, and of course I've got one of them.
Basically the only parts of the story left were short cutscenes at the start of some levels.

I had absolutely no fucking idea what the characters are talking about and felt like I've missed something important.
Then I unlocked the last story.

> giant alien-like robot out of nowhere
> says he's the real Sonic

Absolute whatdafuckery. Thanks pirates.

>>9125806
That line was a mistranslation of Sonic referencing his line in SA2 about he dies hard.

>>9125806
>heroes intentionally dumps previous canon so ps2 casuals wouldn't get confused
Not to shit on you too hard here but your logic here is really funny to me since if anything Sonic Heroes goes fucking balls in when it comes to referencing past Sonic canon.

>>9125895
metal sonic existing (with a completely different personality) and team chaotix skins for team sonic don't indicate a respect for past canon. you would think knuckles would somehow be involved with the chaotix if that were true, not to mention heroes is the game where his motivation as the master emerald guardian is completely dropped out of nowhere. as for references to past events, in frog forest knuckles makes one reference to mushroom hill but i'm pretty sure that's literally it

>>9125949
oh and i think sonic references the egg carrier at some point but that might be in sa2

>>9125949
Sonic Heroes is basically a second attempt at Knuckles Chaotix in 3D, which is why the Chaotix are brought back (personalities retooled to better match their designs) and the final boss is Metal Sonic as a giant abomination.
>you would think knuckles would somehow be involved with the chaotix if that were true
Knuckles was only made the titular character at the last minute since they removed Sonic and Tails and figured Knuckles would get more attention than the new character Espio.

Also, Casinopolis is mentioned in Casino Park, and Omega mentions Gamma and Beta when you get an E-rank. The general aesthetic of Heroes tries really hard to distance itself from Adventure and mimic the classic games, too.

>>9124180
You’re not even good enough to be my fake!