/vr/ - Retro Games

Good on you using an actual VST for SoundCanvas stuff. You should try MUNT for MT-32; using amateur soundfonts doesn't really get close. The MT-32 in particular is an actual synthesizer and not a sample-based sound module, so a soundfont can't do it justice at all.

>>9066887
Aye. I do use Munt for MT-32 games.

1987 (or when midi was first used on dos) - 1992 Roland 32
1992 - 1996 Roland Sound Canvas 55
1996 and later Roland Sound Canvas 88

>>9066907
It doesn't apply for all games, though.
It needs to be more specific for each game.
X-Wing came out in '93 and was composed for the MT-32 though it was still compatible with General MIDI.

I am actually wrong. TIE Fighter was composed for the SC-55.
The CD version of X-Wing was composed for the SC-55 but the floppy version was for the MT-32.

Bump with semi-related question.

So when I moved, I tossed all the power sources/bricks into one box. I don't remember what the specifications of the power bricks for the MT-32 nor SC-55. What would be the best for each?

>>9068819
>i'm too retarded to read the power requirements clearly printed on the back

Warcraft 2 on an SC-88 sounds basically identical to the CD Soundtrack, which uses a combination of Sound Canvas samples.

Does SC-88pro has any seat in here?

>>9069502
I am also asking this.

>>9069502
It's fully backwards compatible with the 88, and closely compatible with the 55. The 88 Pro is also rather popular in Japanese electronic composition; See Rei Harakami.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_KWd_pRcFs&t=24
Anon, do you know what synth this is? I haven't been able to find anything that matches.
It's running on a Wii, by the way. The curious thing is it seems Nintendo has a licensed soft synth from Roland (their logo shows up in developer docs), but nobody knows which one it is.

>>9068819
Beware, Roland stuff usually uses a brick with reverse polarity (negative core, positive sleeve). 9vdc is what my my-32 takes iirc, I’d be willing to bet the sc55 is the same

I played Dark Forces with Gravis UltraSound.

>>9069715
It's probably the generic "GS" set they license out to this day, similar to Microsoft's GS Wavetable Synth. I believe they're a mishmash of different samples, like the 8820 ended up being.

>>9069715
https://youtu.be/aES2ol38z1M

>>9069838
Good info, would be nice to make/have/find a SF2 that sounds just like it.
>>9069839
I know the source, but the SC-33 doesn't sound exactly the same. Go to 00:37 in that video, for example. Appreciate it btw

>>9070298
The SC-33 is a cut down 55 to begin with iirc.

Post your favorite midi tracks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAsYu_HsnoY

>>9066882
>>9066882
>>9066882

Can cool midi work with something like Scummvm or is this more for dosbox?

Setup Guide for using Roland Sound Canvas VA with DOSBox & ScummVM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WumRboSfn90

>DOSBox Guide
1) Install Sound Canvas VA
2) Install loopMIDI: https://www.tobias-erichsen.de/software/loopmidi.html
3) Launch both loopMIDI & Sound Canvas VA
4) In loopMIDI create a port for Sound Canvas VA to interface through
5) With both loopMIDI & Sound Canvas VA already running, run DOSBox
6) Type "MIXER /LISTMIDI" into DOSBox to see all available MIDI device IDs - as you can see, Sound Canvas VA is listed under "2"

You are now ready to use Sound Canvas VA in DOSBox. However, MS-DOS games all come with their own audio setups & they need to be configured individually if you want them to take advantage of your new virtual MIDI device's capabilities. There are a number of ways how you can achieve this. Choose whichever suits you best:

7a) Easiest option is to just run a game's audio setup - pick Sound Canvas VA for music playback only, you still want Sound Blaster 16/Pro for SFX & voices (If asked, by default MIDI is available on address 330 & interrupt 2 while Sound Blaster is on address 220 & interrupt 7)
7b) Load a per-game custom config file - copy the 3 highlighted lines from "Lands of Lore (DOSXBox ECE).txt" to enable Sound Canvas VA
7c) Use one custom DOSBox config file across all games - enabling Sound Canvas with the same 3 settings (not recommended)
7d) Use a frontend GUI for DOSBox and set up the corresponding options that way

https://www.dosbox.com/wiki/Configuration:MIDI
https://www.dosbox.com/wiki/MIDI_software_devices
https://www.rolandcloud.com/getmedia/1b9a8e2f-da5b-4ac4-a903-60d1c6dcd648/scva-manual-e.pdf

>>9070620
Based SoundCanvas VA anon

>>9070510
SS1 has a really great MIDI OST.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up80FfzySFA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W93o3AZRA2o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyGw2a1GDO8

>>9068921
>>9069717
Yeah the MT-32 is DC, center negative, 9V, 650mA (the SC-55 says 500mA) ... but I don't seem to have a brick that matches the mA. Wondering how the official ones looked like.

>>9070620
Thank you for this!

>>9070620
These Privateer guitars sound truly amazing on SC VA holy shit

The original Dune PC game was composed with the rare AdLib Gold 1000

>>9070562
It can definitely work for ScummVM.

>>9074112
sauce

>>9074512
https://soundcloud.com/tastefulairhorn/sets/dune-vg-original-soundtrack

>>9074608
>source:my ass
Thats what I thought

>>9066882
It's mostly 3 different categories.

>MT-32
Anything that requires reprogrammable MT-32.

>SC-55 (early)
The ones without GM logo. Were on the market for a very short time though but many games were made with it.

>late SC-55 with GM logo, SC-55 MkII and SC-88 (non-Pro)
Those three are fully compatible (in both GM and GS) with each other but neither is compatible with the non-GM marked SC-55 (but you're hard pressed to hear a difference).
This probably includes the most games.

The later ones will also do MT-32 fine as long as the game does not require reprogramming the MT-32.

>>9066907
Read above, it's not that simple.
The SC-88 would be the best all-rounder to get I guess, after that the SC-88 and MT-32, that already covers most bases.

>>9068932
Warcraft 2 was made with a SC-88 or SC-55MkII as far as I know.

>>9069693
I've heard about compatibility issues from people who own both between the 88 Pro VS 88 when it comes to 55 MkII and original 55.

>>9070620
dont you need to pay fort sound canvas VA?

>>9075905
Some samples are swapped out as is generally the case with SC backwards compatibility, but generally you're not going to lose your mind over the differences. The whole idea of GM and GS, and XG for that matter is that it's compatible regardless of the sample set.
>>9075983
It's real easy to pirate, or $65 bucks (iirc) if you feel like paying for it.

I tried using an SC88 pro for SC55 but it sounds noticeably worse than a real SC55. Some samples are swapped out, others sound interpolated.

There is no VST that can accurately replicate the SC55. Sound canvas VA does not contain an accurate SC55 instruments, only the SC55 and its variants do. Sound canvas VA is mostly accurate for SC88 and newer but it sounds very flat compared to the real synths.

The cheapest way of getting SC55 sound is getting an actual SC55, the cheapest way of getting real MT32 sound is getting a RA50 and modifying the circuit a bit. Or just use Munt, it's accurate enough.

There are multiple variants of the MT32 and some games don't sound 100% the same with other versions. And some newer games don't work with the older MT32 firmwares.

And remember, just because something was composed for one synth doesnt mean it wont sound good on others. Some MT32 games like Monkey island 1 or Elite 2 also work well on any soundcanvas in MT32 mode and yamaha TG100/TG300/MU series in CM mode. Games that use custom instrument patches only work on MT32 and 100% compatible roland synths. Later game usually used general midi and sound ok on most GM compatible synths

>>9076040
SC55 needs a real dump.
the problem is that the good ones are lost or locked behind some audiophile forums and they will never share.

>>9076040
>The cheapest way of getting SC55 sound is getting an actual SC55

This is why I got an SC88. Cheaper to buy an actual module. And, on the plus side, it is MUCH easier to use than this
>>9070620
Instead, you just use a third party windows program to change your default midi device to the external midi module, and dosbox automatically uses it.

>>9076062
SC88 doesnt replace an SC55

>>9076048
ROM dumps are not an issue
https://wowroms.com/en/roms/mame/sound-canvas-sc-55/104250.html

>>9076069
Depends on the SC88, it replaces a late SC55 and SC55mkII but neither replace a early SC55, those had the biggest difference.

>>9076069
It does for 95% of use cases, anything else is severe autism.

>>9076069
Depends, the SC88 replaces a SC55mkII and mostly a late SC55 but neither replace a early SC55, those had the biggest difference.

>>9076040
There are multiple variants of the SC55 that aren't even comparable between themselves

>>9076040
>I tried using an SC88 pro
Yeah, SC-88 Pro is weird. On paper it should be pretty accurate but it's worse for SC-55 than a non-Pro SC-88 is.

Mentioned here too already >>9075905
>I've heard about compatibility issues from people who own both between the 88 Pro VS 88 when it comes to 55 MkII and original 55.

>>9075905
>>9076092
>>9076094
>>9076098
>>9075905

There are many variants of the SC55 with slight differences in firmware, but they don't really matter unless the game is using the obscure key click or breath noise sounds
The first and uncommon SC55 have a "GS Standard" logo
The second ones have a GS logo
The last revision has both GM and GS logos

Confusingly Roland also made GS logo ones that contain the same firmware as the GM/GS ones, and there were even more firmware variants

All of them sound basically the same, unless the game is using FL key click or breath noise or does not select drum sets correctly. This affects like 3 games total according to vogons

Then there is the SC55mkII, it has a better quality output and different architecture but sounds very similar to the original SC55

Starting with the SC88 sounds were replaced with different ones. These newer units do have an SC55 map for backwards compatibility but many sounds are still the updated ones

>>9076109
>Yeah, SC-88 Pro is weird. On paper it should be pretty accurate but it's worse for SC-55 than a non-Pro SC-88 is.
The SC88 and SC55mkII were made a few months apart, meanwhile Pro came years later

>>9075905
>>9076115
If I can only afford one for 90's DOD games, which one should I get?

>>9076129
Either SC55mkII or SC88 (non Pro), will cover the most bases with the best compatibility.

>>9076069
The compatibility mode is good enough for me, but I'm just agreeing that you can buy an SC-55 module on ebay or something and it would be the easiest way of getting that sound.

>>9076129
Lol, DOS*

>>9076131
Thanks, will look into it
What else do I need?

>>9076141
>What else do I need?
If you're going to use a modern PC, a USB to MIDI cable, check Amazon or eBay. Slightly more complex if it's for s old computer, softMPU and a gameport to MIDI cable will handle it though if you have a sound card with gameport that has DOS drivers.

>>9076129
If you don't care about late 90s high polyphony midi then just get an SC55 if you can get one for cheap

>>9076129
Buy a Yamaha, they're way cheaper, sound great, and are GS, XG, and GM compatible. Also don't buy the $5 USB-MIDI cables on Amazon, they are fucking garbage and do not work. You have to spend around $20+ to get a decent one.

>>9076158
>Buy a Yamaha, they're way cheaper, sound great, and are GS, XG, and GM compatible.
I'd never recommend a Yamaha, the XG compatibility is pretty moot for games but they have even worse GS compadability and all their samples sound very rough and unpleasing, they don't go together at all.

Just listen to a XG vs GS compilation.

>Also don't buy the $5 USB-MIDI cables on Amazon, they are fucking garbage and do not work. You have to spend around $20+ to get a decent one.
Can't even get a 5 USD one off Amazon, the cheapest ones are around 20 bucks and all those use the same chips, even the slightly more expensive ones.

>>9076157
SC55 is going to have a worse time with mid/late 90's games but SC55mkII and SC88 have far less problems with early 90's games
basically SC55 has horrible forwards compatibility but meanwhile SC55mkII and SC88 have good backwards compatibility

>>9076158
>>9076191
I always found Yamaha very scratchy compared to Roland

>>9076205
Did you actually use an SC55? It sounds fine for me
There are some memes about these synths that are repeated everywhere but aren't really facts. For example everyone complains about the TG100 having terrible audio quality but I think it sounds as good as the SC55

>>9076214
Yeah, I own multiple XG and GS devices

There's some very noticeable wrong instruments when you try to use a SC55 for later games that were designed with SC5mkII or SC88
Meanwhile those two are almost identical playing the older games designed for SC55

>TG100 having terrible audio quality but I think it sounds as good as the SC55
The problem isn't quality, it's just that the samples sound very... tinny or scratchy, would be the best I can explain
They sound hyperrealistic, like a picture with contrast turned but in this case it's with sound, GS sound softer

What are you listening to?

>>9076205
Yamaha's samples are the same bitrate as Roland's except the TG-100 module, which was 12-bit.
>>9076191
The TG300 GS mode on the MU series modules is actually quite good and Yamaha's samples are hardly "rough and unpleasing", not that sound isn't 100% subjective anyway. Furthermore, anyone using their modules for playback instead of composition (everyone buying modules to play 4 DOS games one time) has virtually no understanding of the modules to begin with.

>>9076252
>Yamaha's samples are the same bitrate as Roland's except the TG-100 module, which was 12-bit.
I wasn't talking about quality on paper but how they sound
See >>9076243

>>9076252
>Furthermore, anyone using their modules for playback instead of composition (everyone buying modules to play 4 DOS games one time) has virtually no understanding of the modules to begin with.
Imagine trying to be a pretensions faggot when it comes to people liking or disliking how things sound. You can buy a whole rack of sound modules costing thousands and just use it to listen to music, has nothing to do with "understanding the modules".

>>9076243
>it's just that the samples sound very... tinny or scratchy
By your own words you are describing how 12-bit sampling sounds in comparison to 16; sounds like a quality thing to me.

>>9076262
>Imagine trying to be a pretensions faggot when it comes to people liking or disliking how things sound
Like you are with your brand-fellating faggotry?
>has nothing to do with "understanding the modules".
It does actually, you'll never know even a fraction of what a module is capable of if all you're doing is playing the Monkey Island theme and jerking off about it on reddit. I bet you didn't even RTFM.

>>9076270
>Like you are with your brand-fellating faggotry?
What brand-fellating faggotry?

>It does actually, you'll never know even a fraction of what a module is capable of if all you're doing is playing the Monkey Island theme and jerking off about it on reddit. I bet you didn't even RTFM.
Nah. Try harder. Your knowledge of the module has nothing to do with you enjoying it.

>>9076279
I'm not trying at all

>>9076264
I wasn't talking about the TG100 specifically, but every MU module I have has the same scratchynes to it's samples
as anon said it's subjective but that's my opinion and that's also the opinion I hear most from others when talking about this subject

>>9076270
>Like you are with your brand-fellating faggotry?
are you talking about me? I own both Yamaha and Roland sound modules and keyboards, I'm just sharing my subjective opinion

>>9076270
Imagine getting butthurt because someone didn't agree with you on 4chan or thinks thing you like is bad

>>9076298
To me the TG100 and TG300 sound better than the later MU modules, especially the TG100 was a nice surprise after seeing that everyone on the internet complains about its bad quality

>>9076301
Don't start shitposting, it's a nice thread

>>9076249

>>9076279
>What brand-fellating faggotry?
You trying to start a Yamaha Vs Roland flamewar.

>>9076328
All I said was that I don't recommend the Yamaha, specially for /vr/ and to listen to a comparison before buying. What's wrong with that?

>>9076270
Most of these units were used to play gaymes even back then. Serious musicians disliked GM romplers. That's also why the GS and XG synths cant really be edited like more professional synths

>>9076330
Fuck you nigger, Yamaha is much better. You can go fuck yourself with your Roland shit.

>>9076331
Yep, anon is trying to LARP way too hard

>>9066882
I THINK Final Fantasy VII's MIDI music for the PC port used the SC-88 but I'm not sure. The modern versions use OGG streams but the original one that you bought on CDs made by EIDOS used actual MIDI.

>>9066882
Age of Empires sounds great on a SC-88
I think it was modelled after the Microsoft SoftSynth, which is officially based on GM

>>9076387
The MS softsynth is basically an SC55 with very low quality samples and no effects
>>9076349
FF7 on PC was composed for XG

>>9076414
>FF7 on PC was composed for XG
Source? Don't think it would sound good on GS if it was composed for XG

>>9076419
Open up the files in a good midi player like vanbascos karaoke player and look at the instruments list.

>not listening through PC Speaker

If you like MIDI music, don't forget it's supported in Japanese computers emulation.
If you're into muzak versions of classic arcade hits, it's the way to go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csoo7de8KVE

>>9076506
all i want is FMTowns Emulation

>>9076556
But there is? Check Unz

>>9076570
The wing Commander soundtrack for FMTowns is kino

>>9070620
I wish someone had managed to replicate AWE 32 for digital voice

>>9076076
have you tested this
https://archive.org/details/SC55EmperorGrieferus

>>9066882
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_MT-32-compatible_computer_games

Check rightmost column for original synth info (blank indicates that it was composed for MT-32, as far as anyone knows)

>>9068819
Does anyone here even use one or is it all just jerking off?

>>9077719
If under "jerking off" you mean listening to sweet MIDI tunes on them, yeah.

>>9077753
Come on man, you have all that wild shit and then you're using basic bitch desktop speakers?

>>9078581
They sound good for gaming with the added woofer under the table and I like how they look. Also period correct with the rest of the machine (outside of the SSDs).
When I move the setup and make it more permanent, I might replace them with a pair of entry level Tannoy monitors (also close to period correct) I used to use and are in storage right now, but that would require a lot more space.

We'll see.

I want to build an mt32-pi but fucking raspi prices are retarded every where I go.
I can't even find a zero 2 w l

>>9077719
Use what, a midi module? I don't play PC games old enough to require it often, but when I do I use it, yes.

>>9078797
Okay, if they have an attached sub that's at least something

Bump

>>9066882
How accurate is munt anyway? Does it fully replace the original hardware

>>9082329
lol no

>>9070620
that comes close to replacing the equivalent hardware, not munt

>>9066882
You might wanna ask here - https://hcs64.com/mboard/forum.php

>>9074512
http://www.vgmpf.com/Wiki/index.php/Dune_(DOS)
http://www.vgmpf.com/Wiki/index.php/HERAD

>>9070510
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTuVYxg73NQ