/vr/ - Retro Games

glad you're enjoying it anon. in terms of gameplay, art and music, it's the best RTS ever made. play WC3 next for the amazing world editor.

It's a fantastic game in all regards. Glad you're enjoying it!

>>9067760
got starcraft 2 with all the other shit like the notepad at a thrift store

>>9067762
I really start to like base Blizzard gameplay. I've preferred C&C up until recently because of it's very straightforward - everything makes sense and everything is simple: you have barracks for infantry, war factory for vehicles, helipads for copters. Once you build radar you gain access for high tech units. Tech center gives you even more advanced units. Last you may build superweapon device and that's it.
Starcraft and even Warcraft seemed convoulted at first: buildings can be upgraded. Other buildings give access to units upgrades. This unit has energy that can be used for aoe attacks, that unit makes others invisible, another unit detects unvisible units and another one has an attack which depletes enemy energy so it can't use special attacks. It's so fun once you get a grasp of it.

>>9067806
Don't you think Starcraft 2 looks soulless?

I might have to play StarCraft again. I was always a C&C guy and have played those countless times but I always get stuck/distracted halfway through the StarCraft campaigns. Now that I'm older and less of a strategic brainlet I think I can finally beat this fucking game as long as I don't get distracted again.

>>9067858
top fucking kek

Some anon asked about Kingdom Under Fire 1 in the previous thread. I've tried it and it's a Korean Warcraft clone but some of the missions play like Diablo. I've enjoyed it actually.

The game really shines when you play against real people, the strategic depth is second to none (maybe sc2).

>>9067760
>kind of easy
The game doesn't attempt to be difficult until you move onto the three expansion pack campaigns, at which point you will notice a sudden difficulty spike. This is typical for Blizzard RTS games.

What's up with Warlords Battlecry games? Worth trying?

>>9067760
For newbie protoss id recommend archon/zealot army with minimal dragoons because maneuvering them is challenging for a new player, their pathfinding is AIDs.
Reavers are very hard to utilize without shuttle drops or Arbiter recalls. Also, always remember your units get a 50% chance to miss if they are attacking high ground enemies, so be mindful of that with dragoons/reavers.

This looks cute af

>>9067760
I serious hope you're not playing this for the first time with the remastered cancer

>>9068183
Nope, ver 1.16.1 with cnc-ddraw for crispy 2x upscale

>>9068195
Good boy

Amazing soundtrack.

>>9069207
Dusk Hour, Heroism and Lone Trooper are the best

Thankfully most Starcraft 1 missions are easy outside of a later Protoss vs Protoss one which you need to be on your game. Difficulty ramps up once you get further into Brood Wars Terran campaign were you actually need to macro with multiple unit producing structures, making units, and upgrading. Generally fun all around.

What are some nice noob tactics with these big bois? I am interested in proper support composition so they don't get killed quick.

>>9067896
how are you running that, was there any you needed to patch it with

>>9069279
Kingdom Under Fire Gold runs fine on Windows 11. I am using DDrawCompat just in case, but it looks like the game works even without it.

Member that time when Scrin were supposed to be more Protoss-like than generic insectoid aliens?

>>9069274
Get a shuttle to pick them up. Gives them a lot more mobility and the ability to pick them up while they are in danger and just fly away.

>>9069291
EA denied us the real Tiberian Sun sequel.

>>9069274
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMRlFuNHraM
not noob tactics but you see him drop the dragoon to draw fire, and he keeps circling the shuttle over the reaver so he can pick him up instantly when needed

>>9069357
I mean, I need literal noob tactics for comfy playing against AI. Competitive RTS is too stressfull for me.

>>9069384
you can still use the base tactic. put a zealot/dragoon in a shuttle along with the reaver and make sure to drop the other unit first so they draw the initial fire, then pick up the reaver after its first or second shot. that's pretty straightforward to do and it makes reavers a lot stronger

>>9069408
Is using multiple reavers a bad idea?

>>9069435
not at all, just keep in mind that they are a pretty serious investment and losing multiple reavers at once is very costly

Any love for Red Alert 2?

>>9069540
Westwood pre-release screenshots are always better than the real thing

>>9067760
Original SC campaigns are easy. Just wait until you get to the Zerg campaign of the BW expansion. To Slay the Beast will teach you the meaning of pain, and when you're done with that, there's still Omega to beat.

>>9067760
OP, before you move on to Brood War, I recommend playing the Enslavers campaign found in the custom maps menu. It's a small side story with branching paths that takes place before BW. The final mission of the Protoss route throws in a respawning Ultralisk that makes things pretty tough. I was never able to beat this mission back in the day.

>>9069682
Sure, will do. Thanks for the suggestion

>>9069682
There's also the sequel Enslavers Dark Vengeance. Much harder than the original, should be played after BW.

>>9069698
What other maps allow to "use map settings" with only one human player?

>>9069727
When it comes to official stuff there's only Enslavers I and II (II needs to be downloaded). For other stuff you'll need to look for mods.

>>9069207
The OST definitely carries the lion's share of conveying the "post-apocalyptic nearly-dead world" mood that the game relies on so heavily. I got mad hyped when Pharotek kicked in on the final mission. I wish that game had been balanced more, although it's still my favorite C&C.

>>9069727
>What other maps allow to "use map settings" with only one human player?
Poker Defense allows for only one player, and some revisions will actually give you a bit of a bonus since the game is geared for multiple players, so you'll have a chance instead of being slightly crippled.
Smash T.V. BW also allows for single player UMS, but you'll be crippled due to the lack of firepower, and not likely to reach the end without cheating.
Some versions of Random Tower Defense will glitch when playing with only one player and let you play anyways, but it doesn't always work, and doesn't work on all versions.

>>9067932
Only in the last few zerg missions. To slay the beast really needed some dark archon help.

>>9067829
Blizz-style mechanics are superior overall, but C&C required an understanding of each faction’s key strengths/weaknesses. Blizzard really didn’t take that into account until StarCraft. Even then, the default strategy is to just overwhelm the opponent with numbers.

>>9069682
Wait what, I never knew this, is this bundled in the game as is?

>>9070382
Yeah but it has no voice acting and the characters use the regular units portraits. It's on the custom games menu

>>9068073
>be me 15 years old playing bnet against foreigners
>15 min nr
>start to build up a zealot + dragoon army
>5 mins in the guy from mexico drop ships 3 reavers inside my base destroying all my resources and gatherers
shit was still fun yo fuckin rushers

>>9070401
It's fine. Thanks man, I didn't know this.

>>9069691
Don't do it. Brood War logically starts exactly where the main campaign ends, and the difficulty is naturally adjusted to it (ofc early levels are easier).

Enslavers is a side story, and while Blizzard made, there is no real characters in it, voice acting is nonexistenst, levels are very hard, much harder, than episode 6 of BW, and the payoff is not great at all.

Play Enslavers AFTER beating Omega in Brood War (the last level).

What you should try however is the two disabled missions. Both are from the human campaign, and they are unfinished a bit (especially Biting the Bullet, which has a brilliant inner storyline, but the level is somewhat dysfunctional), but they are nice for curiousity. Operation: Silent Scream is actually a complete mission, and I'm not sure, why it has been removed from the final campaign. somewhat similar story-wise to Big Push, but it plays very differently.

>>9070294
Starcraft is so similar to Warcraft 2, I often felt the orcs will appear at one point. Especially on the Char missions, as that tileset is very similar to the Draenor levels in WC2.

The zerg faction is the closest to the Warcraft2 style followed by the protoss. The zerg even has the classic 3 tier main building with the also upgradable "watchtower". Protoss has lots of similarities too, and voice acting by Bill Roper is very close to the one he did on the orcs.

Terrans look a bit different, it felt more Tiberian Sun-esque (ie. the siege tank vs the artillery), and IIRC it was designed by different people. Yet, it still blends well with the other two, and the balance is great between all three.

>>9070629
Enslavers I isn't that much hard (except the last level with the respawning Torrasque, that was some bullshit). Enslavers II is very hard, but it should be played after BW anyway.

Also, Enslavers I should be played with vanilla SC. It's cheating to play it with BW.

>>9067998
I like them and having so many different genuinely unique factions is extremely rare. Its a game I didn't really appreciate until I started playing more and more RTS games. Originally seeing it as average but eventually seeing it as great. The voice acting is burned into my brain lol

>>9069341
oh, is there more of this cancelled game?

>>9067998
incredible series honestly.
>>9069207
>>9070146
try the TWISTED INSURRECTION mod

>>9070646
While Protoss is my favorite faction, I think they have way too many buildings compared to the other two. Wtf is the purpose of the Citadel of Adun? I have no idea why leg enhancement is there of all places. Having an Observatory and a Tribunal just for their respective units seems overkill as well. The other factions feel just right with their buildings, especially the Terrans.

>>9070765
>Enslavers I should be played with vanilla SC. It's cheating to play it with BW.

Exactly. You can cheese the mission with Dark Archons capturing every Torraque that shows up. That campaign was balanced with base SC in mind.

OP here, Protoss appear to be the least fun so far. Producing an army takes ages, micro (which I am bad at) is required more often, I can't repair anything and the music doesn't live up to those 10/10 Terran and Zerg soundtracks. What's the purpose of dragoons? I'm trying to use them the same way I've used hydralisks but their pathfinding is all over the place.
Also sunken colonies fuck me hard. How do I counter them? Scouts kinda work against them but they're too expensive and the TTK against ground targets is way too long.

>>9071132
>Also sunken colonies fuck me hard. How do I counter them?
a few zealots with legs upgrade destroy sunkens

>>9071132
Dragoons are a bit better with the range upgrade at the cybernetics core (although it doesn't let you actually outrange sunken colonies). If you don't have access to reavers yet that might be your best option. I don't remember how early the campaign gives you reavers.

>>9071091
I understand the logic behind the observatory, the support bay, the tribunal and the fleet beacon. They give you a powerful extra unit for the linked production building and some updates. However I think the citadel sucked, because it didn't follow this logic. It should have been the building for archon powerups instead (both khalai and dark).

Similar logic break on the zerg side is the BW only lurker aspect, which is too random, ahd hardly relatable to the hydras. The devourer/guardian aspects in greater spire work well, as they create a one dimensional powerful unit from a weaker all-arounder.

Something similar should have happened with the lurker, the zerg is really missing a stronger and mobile land-to-air unit, and that could have been the other aspect.

Terrans are okay, but their buildings are too big, and it's a bitch micro to handle them. The Academy logically should have been an attachment, not a separate building.

BTW the addition of the corsair and valkyrie was stupid, as they are clearly overlapping with another unit (scout and wraith).

>>9071132
Interesting opinion. Toss is my favourite race. The music is chill and laid back, I love it. One of the tracks is a remake of a WC2 orc soundtrack BTW.

Dragoon is very good because it can attack everything, and has a solid weapon. I build them regularly. Story-wise, they are fallen zealots and templars, returned to protoss life.

Also, Aldaris's character is great, he was one of my favourites.

>>9071132
>Scouts kinda work against them but they're too expensive and the TTK against ground targets is way too long.
Scout is probably the most broken unit in the entire game. They are effectively useless for that prize. Their land attack is pathetic. If you are on level 3 with the red and white zerg bases, don't rely on them for the white base. Better to build an army of zealots and dragoons. Protoss is not zerg, it's not a strong flyer faction. The backbone will be the archon from level 4 onwards.

>>9071132
The units are more powerful, so micro is more advantageous. If you can limit damage to shields only, you can recharge units at a shield battery.
Scouts are one of my favorite SC units because they look and sound great, but they totally blow and are crazy expensive. This will always bother me.
>>9071159
>corsair and valkyrie was stupid
I didn't play competitive SC, but by the fact that all three factions got an air unit with anti-air splash damage attacks tells me that massed-up mutalisks or other air units were causing lots of trouble on the scene. I don't think the developers really expected flyer stacking to happen, and they had to do something about it (and changing the collision system didn't seem to be their preference).

>>9071132
make dragoon
upgrade range
spam attack move
win

>>9067760
i've never played starcraft, but this YM2612 cover makes me want to
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NBqicMz5Zc

>>9071132
>how to play Protoss like a pro
Get the speed upgrade for Zealots. Weapons and Armor upgrades are good, but they really need the speed to be effective. Zealots are great against Zerg in general, and make fantastic bait and blockers for your Dragoons against Terrans.
Get the range upgrade for Dragoons and keep them away from Siege Tanks. Play defensive until you have speed/range, then start moving out. Move your goons slowly, and keep them grouped up. Be prepared to have them halt quickly, since they can't attack while moving. Attack+Move ONLY when outside of the enemy base. Move them into a base and then have them attack when trying to take out a base, or they will all get hung up behind a handful at a ramp.
High Templar lightning storms can melt attacking Zerg, but they are rarely worthwhile against Terrans(unless you make smart use of Hallucinate). Convert em over to Archons instead, and use em like Zealots.
If playing Brood War, Corsairs are the only air unit you'll ever need, unless you wanna get tricky with Arbiters. Scouts are absolute trash units that serve no real use. Their ground attack is too weak for the costs, and their air attack is painfully slow against more agile air units.
One mining base can supply three Gateways with enough resources to produce units non-stop.
Strike the enemy base and pull back and let your units wipe the enemy units, then push in again. Trying to punch through when the enemy is tripping over their own units means you'll usually get blocked at the defenses and take a lot of damage from the sunken colonies. Take a swing and run away a bit a few times until they stop having an army to throw, then take out the defenses and march in.

How do I use Marines effectively and not just as meat shields for the good units

>>9071638
Medics

>>9071454
Damn that's a good cover. Starcraft has good music, and it's definitely worth a play. You should give it a try, it's one of the best games ever made in the RTS genre.
The guy you linked also has some other RTS covers that I liked and are appropriate to put here, so I will do so:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7NEd4cVs40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HznRPCKg5YY

>>9071638
2:1 medic ratio. Learn to micro/split effectively. For example you don't have your marines clumped up when facing splash damage units like lurkers or tanks, immediately split up your dudes so they don't get shredded. Kite zealots and zerglings.

Even then marines will die, they only have 40 HP. The key to infantry play is to have constant stream of reinforcements rallying in. On Single player shoot for 5-8 barracks pumping out marines & medics constantly during an attack

https://youtu.be/WJp0t9n8DWk

>>9071638
1 medic for every 2-3 marines. Stim, then attack. Never attack without stimming, or your DPS will be low. Don't keep medics in the same control group as the marines or you won't be able to stim without double-clicking on all the marines, and doing that with large numbers of marines isn't feasible. One effective method of moving the two around is to stim the marines and then order them to move, forcing the medics to follow. Just keep an eye on them to prevent stray medics from falling behind.
This is against Zerg only. Against Terran or Protoss, you should be using strictly mech units. Siege tanks backed by goliaths and vultures with an SCV or two doing repairs and making missile turrets, is so very effective against Terran and Protoss that marines aren't worth the resources they take to build. Those 50 minerals are better used for mech. Throw in science vessels if against Protoss for that sweet shield-killing EMP.

>>9071132
Dragoons have infamously bad pathfinding meaning you have to spam the command a few times. They're not a bad all round ground unit besides that. That's as long as you have enough there to compensate for their low RoF. Fun fact, Blizzard deliberately did not fix the actual collision bug with them that causes the issues because they would become too good supposedly.

>>9069251
If you want real difficulty that's what the hidden Insurrection campaign is for.

>>9071667
Also, throw in Science Vessels aginst Zerg for that sweet Irradiate spell.

>>9071091
>Wtf is the purpose of the Citadel of Adun?
Well to honor Adun to start with. But it also helps with game balance to have a stepping stone building before Templar Archives so that Dark Templar rushes aren't so fast they can't be countered. Terran barely hve enough time to defend aginst them as is.

>>9069682
Based Enslavers enjoyer

>>9070629
Enslavers was definitely easier than the final few BW Zerg missions to me

>>9071180
This. I still think Scouts should have been 200 minerals, no more.

>>9071159
Fun fact: the Academy was originally planned to be an addon for the Barracks, but for some reason they made it separate. I have a suspicion on why - I believe the Firebat was added quite late in development because the Goliath originally had a short range flamer that was OP coupled with machineguns and missiles, so they gave it to the Firebat. At the time, I'm betting they hadn't fully developed their ideas for what should have addons and why yet, so they probably said "well if this is going to unlock this new unit it should be a separate building that costs more". That's my head canon anyway, could be totally wrong.

>>9072146
Cursed image. I hate it.

>>9071159
Corsair, Valkyrie, and Devourer were all added with the intention of being anti-swarming air units against the tactical fighters (Scout, Wraith, and Mutalisk). They have a niche but I admit they aren't very glamorous. It still allows the three sides to be distinguished further though - the Corsair has the disruption web ability and the Devourer has both a powerful passive status effect and gives the Zerg player a choice between mutations of the Muta. The Valkyrie, very unfortunately in my mind, had its original ability Afterburners cut, which would have given it a temporary speed boost. Apparently Blizz testers discovered you could use Afterburners to run into a Zerg base, kill every overlord, and run back out. Still, I think it would have been cool and the Zerg probably would have developed counter-strategies (especially if they had made a ground-to-air specialist aspect of the Hydralisk like you were talking about!)

>>9072154
Why do you hate it?

>>9072146
Based on your pic I'd say once they decided large size add-ons were bad, they still wanted to use that academy sprite that would look dumb if scaled down unlike the machine shop which ends up looking better.

>>9072170
That's actually probably closer to the truth than my take, yeah. They (the addons) don't look very good when large.

>>9072163
Uncanny Vallley. It's close enough to the final product that all the bizarre differences are creepy.

>thread infested by filthy protoss apes
here's the only thing you need to learn about protoss
> nexus first

>>9071180
>>9072128
Scout costing 3 supply is also ridiculous. 2 is good enough.

This discussion is reminding me why I always lost against my brother back in the day. We used to play on Small Divide, I'd go for Scouts and get my shit kicked in by his fleet of cloaked Wraiths. I had no clue why as a kid, but now it's so obvious. I never had a chance with that approach.

>>9072526
Yeah I’ve always felt 200 min, 100 gas, 2 supply, while keeping its longer build time would have solved most of the problems with the unit. In a pinch, keep the 125 gas cost. It does have significantly higher HP/shield than the other tactical fighters along with way higher air-to-air damage, as well as the two upgrades, but I think even those things didn’t justify the insane mineral cost, especially when you consider things like the Mutalisk having numerous benefits for cheap - high speed, small size makes them resistant to most anti-air attacks, they have spread damage, and do an extra point of damage against ground by default. Stat wise I think it fits well into the Protoss arsenal as a slower but stronger powerhouse unit, but someone dropped the ball with the cost somehow.

>>9067760
I know a lot of folks prefer some of the earlier games in the series, but this one is still my favorite. I wish i could get it working on windows 10. I know its possible, but neither of my computers can seem to ever install it properly.

>>9072740
>extra point of damage against ground by default
???

>>9072781
Mutas deal 9 damage to ground, as opposed to the 8 for Scout and Wraith.

>>9072497
Artosis ape salt never gets old.
>wah I'm losing to terrible players doing stupid random ape shit because they picked an easy race when I picked the hardest one!
Hilarious.

>>9072749
I've always loved TibSun and Red Alert but have skipped this one. Is it more like SC than C&C?

>>9072846
I can't find anything to support that, and just to see if I'm crazy, I made a custom map and loaded it up. Mutas most certainly do 9 damage to both air and ground, just as the game indicates.

>>9072872
Ye, it took major inspiration from SC. Three radically different factions instead of two mostly the same ones, and each with units varied enough that optimal play is rarely just spamming the fuck out of whatever your basic tank is.

Neoliberla Globohomos VS Hordes of Chinese Incels VS The Chads that sell kebabs and each of their seven wives.

>>9072880
Right, my point was just to illustrate the muta’s greater versatility against ground compared to the wraith and scout, but my post admittedly sounded vague

>>9072915
I'm sorry, I'm retarded. I somehow read your posts as saying that the mutalisk's attack does 9 damage to ground and only 8 against air targets.
I only just now realized that you meant a mutalisk does 9 damage to ground targets, whereas the wraith and scout's ground attacks only do 8. You are totally correct, and it's very obvious in retrospect. I just accidentally some words when reading your posts.

>>9072870
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddslj-HTSfU

What are your favourite units per race?
>Zerg
Mutalisk. For me they are the most fun units to use in the whole game.
>Terran
Marines & Medics, I never get tired of them.
The sound of all those marines firing makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
>Protoss
Reavers. Reaver drop was my favourite strategy to use when playing against friends because it worked every single time.

>>9070646
StarCraft is more fun than Warcraft 2 , and I say this as someone who very often played Warcraft 2 back in the day and loved it..

>>9072984
Boring answers incoming

>Zerg
Hydralisks. Very versatile units, always have them with me
>Terran
Siege Tanks for obvious reasons
>Protoss
Carrier. A group of them fully loaded with interceptors is an amazing sight

>>9072984
>zerg
none
>protoss
none
>Terran
Golith

>>9072984
>Zerg
Hardest choice, I main this race for a reason. Probably Defilers, Terran salt is delicious.
>Terran
Vultures. Fun to micro, and I love mines in any game.
>Protoss
Dark Archon. I only really play Protoss in FFAs where people tend to mass Guardian/Carrier/BCs for me to steal, and even if you don't often get to steal another race's worker, it's hilarious that such a possibility even exists.

>>9072984
>Zerg
Devourers. Watching those spike ripples tear everything up is immensely satisfying.
>Terran
Vultures. It's interesting that they only ever get three mines no matter what, so there's so much flexibility and micro skill expression in placing them correctly.
>Protoss
Carriers. Haha giant flying ape swarm goes pew pew pew pew pew.

>>9072984
>zerg
zergling, especially 3/3 cracklings
>terran
vultures because they're fun to micro and the most broken unit in the game
>protoss
dragoons. the way they shoot is satisfying and I like how they melt into blue goo

>>9073042
Ma nigga.

>>9072526
btw, being SCOUTS they could easily have detection ability

OP here, sorry guys, I'm using fully upgraded dragoons and some reavers, all dropped by shuttles, as my main attack force. I am not fond of using melee-only zealots or microing templars.
And I take my word back, I really like dragoons now that I have level 3 upgrades.

>>9072987
What about Warcraft 3?

>>9073724
Not him but SC and WC3 are two of my all-time favorite RTS games. I'll never not be mad about the tragedy of Reforged.

>>9073715
Standard strat is to use goons with zealots in front to act as a buffer, but that works too.

>>9073764
All remasters suck. SC and C&C as well.

>>9073782
Nah, SC remaster is awesome. Probably the only remaster done right

>>9073809
diff guy here,
the only thing I appreciate is the custom hot keys. I dislike widescreen/4k support because it changes the gameplay drastically. bigger fov changes the gameplay immensely. for example, spotting enemies way sooner giving you more time to siege/burrow or retriet from scourge. it's a different game now

>>9073715
In PVP that works, but you'll never break through Terran mech walls without at least a couple Templars and Chimpanzealots thrown in. Tanks are way too good aginst goons, and goliaths are way too good against anything that flies.

>>9073809
>SC remaster is awesome
kys

I adore Tiberian Sun aesthetic. Was its feature heavy and unoptimized engine too demanding to have any chance against SC in the competitive field? Also fuck hunter-seeker. What were they thinking when made that rng abomination of a super weapon?

>>9074886
I don't remember anyone really caring about competitive Tiberian sun at all. Infact I don't remember competitive E-Sports being a part of the gaming zeitgeist before 2003 or so, with the first Cyber Olympics usually hosting a lineup that was something like Starcraft/Age of Empires/Counterstrike/Quake 3.I do remember Red Alert 2 being designed from the ground up to be a fun, casual LAN game though, so I'm guessing Westwood's first attempt at making an actually competitive RTS was Generals.

>>9074938
Generals was fun (Though wasn't made by Westwood, also neither RA2 nor Emperor was made by the Vegas guys) but they never pushed for competitive scene. TibWars did that with Battlecast Primetime and ended up ruining the campaign.

>>9074938
You are probably too young to remember but Warcraft 2 and Red Alert 1 on LAN and Kali were very competitive. Not todays multimillion e-sports level of course but internet cafes, clans, nationwide competitions were prominent enough for the developers to care about multiplayer. Balance patches were a thing already. And then Starcraft with battle.net integration was released and took the world by storm. Westwood not caring about MP in TibSun was an apparent mistake even by then.

These were good days. I remember I occasionally had sex in the 1990s. I haven’t felt the touch of a woman since at least 2008

>>9073724
>What about Warcraft 3?
I like WC3 more than starcraft. The pace is a little slower, and the hero rpg element adds more variety to the game. I like the story better as well. Starcraft is better suited to competition, though.

>>9073764
>Not him but SC and WC3 are two of my all-time favorite RTS games. I'll never not be mad about the tragedy of Reforged.
I am he. Totally agree that Refagged was a complete clusterfuck that should never be forgiven. And it will get worse now that they've fired the devs who worked on all the older games.

>>9075098
>These were good days. I remember I occasionally had sex in the 1990s. I haven’t felt the touch of a woman since at least 2008
No demoralization posts, those are for /pol/

>>9075505
>Warcraft 3
>I like the story better

>>9074886
yeah. this is still my favorite looking RTS. favorite soundtrack as well. but it really is the inferior game to SC.

>>9075595
I stand by my claim. Fight me.

>>9075680
There's nothing to fight, everything about it is laughable and cringeworthy.

For the record Brood War's story isn't great either. Starcraft vanilla's is.

>>9075680
Warcraft III's story is the very start of the low quality shlock fest. Its a fanfic compared to everything else

>>9075750
>he cares about Warcraft lore after Wrath

lol. lmao

>>9075770
>he cares about Warcraft lore ever

>>9075750
Lol, literally every big thing blizzard has put out since 1993 is centered on “shlock fest” lore derived from classic sci-fi and fantasy media. Nigga please…

>>9075770
This. Warcraft lore became cringeworthy after bc/wotlk because they ran out of stories.

>>9074886
I don't remember my not-exceptional computer having any trouble running TS, so I doubt it was a big issue.
>hunter-seeker
Yeah, I don't even like building it because it bothers me so much that it exists. Westwood just puts cool ideas in, they barely think about balance or cohesiveness.

>>9075885
Try to have as many on-screen units in a multiplayer TS game as usually appears in SC matches.

>>9072146
The academy sprite seems to have some sort of a landing pad and a control tower and I think this picture implies it was initially intended for use as a Starport add-on. It's nice that they kept it as it is, I always thought it was a castle-like structure with towers and screams coming out of it.

Terran units and buildings seem to have been the last ones to get polished, images from the same German magazine show Protoss and Zerg units and buildings that are very similar to the shipped game.

This is the worst kind of missions

This is the worst kind of missions. I hate them.

>>9076304
That one mission walled me so hard when I was little. I would always cheat to bypass it lol

>>9076367
I'm just save scumming through this shit

>>9076367
Yeah, I always just use power overwhelming for these too. These missions are boring to do.

>>9076304
Those are the best and a good change of pace

>>9076563
Those are a waste of a mission slot

What did they mean?

>>9076725
pretty similar. that gets me thinking, who would you cast for a SC movie? david harbour would probably make a good raynor.

>>9076681
Your mom is a waste of a mission slut

>>9076563
Sittin around doing nothing while Tassador gets his mana back is a good change of pace.

Anyone remembers Sudden Strike games?

>>9077904
I loved it as a kid. Brings back memories, playing the Saving Private Ryan mission and listening to this epic tune on repeat: https://youtu.be/4XU1_UWr17k

>>9076128
Really nice. The chemic lab and the academy have the same sprite though.

I think the power generator might have been something like the power plant in RA, but works differently. Maybe a pylon like building the limits the building range.

Don't lose this thread faggots

>>9077671
Tassadar has a normal attack
You are provided with goons and zealots that should not have died, you just fuckin suck at the game

>>9078650
Sitting around doing nothing while your zealots and dragoons slowly get their shields back is a good change of pace.

>>9078779
>he has to wait for them to recharge
>he doesn't know how to rotate his units
Learn to micro better. You just suck at the game dude, I don't know what to tell you

>>9074886
I love the Tib Sun aesthetic, but the fact of the matter is that the game just isn't fun to play 90% of the time. The majority of units aren't useful with their cost vs damage output, and only producing one unit at a time never feels good, no matter how many factories you have. It's got a really odd pace where everything is super slow but if you bump up the speed just one notch then it becomes blisteringly fast to the point of uncontrolable. A lot of the missions kind of suck with these awkward fixed forces that C&C never really excelled at.

Blitzkrieg is such a pretty game, but it gets kinda tedious to deal with enemy artillery, using your scout to slowly kill the crew of the emplacements gets rather stale.

I'd play it again, but WW2 stuff makes me feel depressed, fantasy stuff is better for my mental health..

Is RTS permadead? Will we ever relive the Glory of C&C/AoE/SC/WC/EE? There's a new gook game coming out but it's gonna be a ftp shitter

https://youtu.be/KBIG6HoqdVQ

Redditcraft

>>9080384
Can you let us know what other games reddit likes since you are the reddit expert?

>>9080381
deserts of kharak was fun

>>9080371
I have played some Blitzkrieg and it is really like (a better looking) Sudden Strike 2 but I've never saw any SS2-style dense urban or industrial areas in it, only small towns and villages. Is this the case?

Those korean sc clones are crazy

OP here, am I understanding correctly that once I have carriers, that's it for the AI?

Is picrelated worth checking?

>>9080657
>that lower-left structure
M-mom?
>>9080923
If you can survive the first 3-5 minutes against the AI, that's it for them. Carriers are an optional flourish for the sake of variety.

>>9081110
Not really, unless you are a rts completist or are into Dune mythos. The Dune games don’t really add much that other, better titles have, too.

>>9071454
Nice, I load up a terran game now and then half just to hear the soundtrack. Never get tired of it

OP here. I am at protoss mission 9 and I am having the most fun I've ever had in an RTS gsme. I love that my little fella observer which lets my Zeratul clean the map from burrowed zerg. I love managing zergling mobs with psi storm. I panic seeing a defiler nearby my dragoon army covered by an arbiter and successfully cockblocking him with a couple of zealots feels very rewarding. I love all those counters and combos.
Also I am retard for not using defilers when I played zerg campaign. And spore colony - I've only just realized that it's also a detector.
So, I've cleaned bottom half of the map and can't wait to start building my bois reavers.

>>9082608
Zerg music is my absolute favorite. Some legendary bangers way ahead of their time.

>>9080474
Haven't played in a long time, got to the middle russian levels of the german campaign, Only played Sudden strike a little bit, i think it only goes to middle size towns, Stalingrad is the one with bigger cities and longer ranged infantry.

I think the big difference with Sudden Strike is that there's no crew and that infantry comes in squads, and you don't control planes, talking about infantry one favorite strategy of mine is to turtle and then parachute hordes of soldiers to use as cannon fodder.
Copying Stalingrad ai to Blitzkrieg is a must, gets too fucky otherwise

Posting in a comfy thread!
I am new to RTS games and started with AOE2 and am having fun. It's pretty stressful and trying to command my soldiers during a battle is very hard as well, however. I guess there are no real tips you guys could give me, all of you just played the games for 10 years until you got good so why should I have it any easier lol.
The campaigns of AOE2 don't seem very interesting at all sadly. And apart from Blizzard RTS games, are there any RTS campaigns worth playing through? Or is this just a skirmish genre besides a few outliers?

>>9082708
>I love all those counters and combos.
This is why BW still has a pro scene. Every race has three possible match-ups, all of which play differently. And each match-up has about 10 different viable opening strategies, not including cheese strats. From there you have all manner of different mid-game strategies depending on what happened so far. And given the way unit movement and attack works, many units have little tricks to learn on how to maximize their effectiveness. Being able to "whip" vultures and mutalisks while running away to attack to the rear while not losing forward speed is a big one, and spells death for any units trying to chase. Clustering medics together to block an ultralisk, attacking one of your own buildings with a carrier full of fighters to make them all come out so they will all immediately launch when you attack the enemy, boxing in a unit to add to a flying team so you can ball them up to make it harder for someone to target specific units and flying them in and out of range to keep resetting the enemy's target, there's a surprising amount of depth.
Once finished with all the campaigns, I recommend downloading some of the more popular and interesting tournament maps. The skirmish maps that come with the game are poorly designed and crappy. Play on good maps like Fighting Spirit, Circuit Breakers, Neo Sylphid, Gladiator, Blue Storm, Match Point, Benzene, Block Chain SE, and Python. You may need to upgrade to the 1.18+ codebase for some of the newer maps.

>>9083202
C&C 1, Red Alert, Tiberium Sun, and Red Alert 2 all have interesting campaigns. C&C1 is probably the most bland of the four, but they were still figuring out what they were doing then. Even then it still has some good scenes, specially with NOD.

>>9083202
Lord of the Realms is like a weird mix of SimCity with segments of RTS castle sieges. Really comfy game

>>9083202
I never got good. I like RTS campaigns, but I never played multiplayer and get whipped five ways from Sunday if I ever go against a human.
>>9083291
This is true, although I would say that the Westwood RTS games are mostly played for their atmosphere than for the gameplay. Great soundtracks. I would try each of C&C1 / Red Alert / Tiberian Sun / Red Alert 2 and then just play for as long as you're having fun. I think their enjoyment is very subjective, whereas the Blizzard games are more objectively well-crafted (haha! a pun!).
Also, each of the Blizzard / Westwood games have an expansion pack, so make sure you are playing the base game's campaigns first, since the expansion ones tend to be dramatically more difficult and, obviously, have expansions on the base gameplay.

>>9083202
OP here, if you have newer system like Windows 10 and 11 and have trouble running Red Alert 2, I may send you a set of patched exes and a registry fix which works.

>>9081110
It has some interesting ideas, but the execution is a mess, could be fun depending on your taste. Every subfaction is broken in some ways; The Ixian can produce infinite copies of units, the Tleilaxu can transform defeated infantries and tanks into mutants. Also the buildings are made of cardboard and infantries can tore them in seconds. The music is god tier though, especially the Harkonnen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWtG3EkvSJg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxi3YwNxVpc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOxuQBe_cL8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czXaKxcQNkQ

>>9083029
I think Stalingrad is more hardcore and autistic than either Blitzkrieg or Sudden Strike.

>>9083202
Try Age of Mythology. Unlike AoE2 that half-attempted the edutainment angle of AoE1, AoM is when Ensemble designed the campaign to be as varied and exciting as possible with no constraint of historical anachronism. What other game that lets you kill a jötunn with Egyptian cocodile that shoots fucking laser?

>>9083274
OP here, don't 1.18 and later versions look horrible and smeared out?

>>9083436
I believe this one is crafted well enough

>>9083690
How so? i always found it rather interesting, would love to know the differences with Blitzkrieg, any kind of infantry without rocket launchers were useless outside of human wave tactics in Blitz so i don't know if it improves on that.

The one that really catches my attention is the Cuban missile crisis one, but i don't know if helicopters break the balance.

Talking about Blitzkrieg, i don't know how are developers supposed to make artillery units flow well in gameplay, most don't give them the ability to fire from one side of the map to the other besides total annihilation, a good bunch give up and just make them shoot from outside the map.

>>9083796
Stalingrad tried to move away from RTS conventions further away than Blitzkrieg did. Like it's the same engine but all the values (including weapon range that you've mentioned) were tuned to be more like irl that what is usually acceptable in rts games. Not my cup of tea but I admit that the game maps are pretty and the music is cool.
Cuban Missile Crisis turn based global map is what all other similar games really need.

I've just found out that there are no dragoons and reavers in SC2 and I've lost all interest in trying it.

>>9083951
Stalkers are kinda like Dragoons but wimpier both in looks and firepower. But yeah. Also the LOTV campaign has both of those units, just not in multiplayer.

>>9076367
My trick with this one was to use hallucinations of the zealots to scout ahead, especially to be sacrificed against infested terrans. Still sucked waiting for Tassadar's mana to regenerate though. I think the way they could have fixed that is have the occasional beacon that could recharge your mana instantly.

>>9084401
hallucination isnt worth the extra energy cost. psionic storm works even on burrowed units like infested terrans.

>>9084401
>beacon that could recharge your mana
Agreed, a very simple and intelligent solution.

>>9083691
>AoE2 half-attempted the edutainment angle of AoE1
Yeah, give me age of mythology any day. AoE1 was interesting at first, but it quickly gets repetitive to the point where it’s a pseudo history lesson that plays out the same way every mission. At least AoE was easy to mod in the sense that you could literally reskin it with Star Wars, change a few gameplay mechanics, and make it instantly more interesting.

>>9083698
There is an option to turn the petroleum jelly filter down. This is the game with the filter all the way down in version 1.23.x

>>9084427
>hallucination isnt worth the extra energy cost.
Hallucination has won games at the pro level.
>hallucinates 3 arbiters
>run a damn swarm of arbiters into the enemy base from all over
>pop recall on the 3 legit arbiters and move entire army behind their defenses
Also works great for fluffing up a group of carriers to make them seem more dangerous so you can buy some time to make more. If really desperate, you can hallucinate up some fake corsairs to make a pack of mutas or scourge turn around.

>>9084826
Huh... I was talking about that tassadar mission where you only control a couple units

>>9084427
I believe there are a handful of enemies in that level who do not spawn until you put units on top of them, so psi storm wouldn't work.

>picrelated
Help me, I'm scared

>>9084795
Your screenshot looks horrible indeed

>>9084795
Here is how the game should look on hd monitor, in my opinion

>>9067796
I like d&d

>>9085309
Aged like a fine wine

Is Dawn of War 1 comparable to SC and WC3?

>>9086464
Unfortunately not.

>>9086507
Elaborate please. Is it bad?

>>9086512
It's not bad, but in my opinion it's not really comparable, either.
Worth playing if you're a 40K fan, though.

>>9085302
So OP, didst thou beateth StarCraft? I expected nothing short of a dead Overmind by this sunrise.

>>9086849
Sorry, I've only made the screenshot and haven't played since. Will try to tackle it today. Any tips are appreciated.

>>9086464
It's unfair to compare them with Blizzard RTS, they're great but DoW franchise is basically a sandbox that lets you play with cool toys. Dark Crusade is the culmination of cool vs badass with Risk style campaign map and 7 factions to play. But if you can't spare the time, then skip okayish DoW1 campaign and play superior Winter Assault campaign.

>>9086963
What about Soulstorm? Worth playing in singleplayer? I've purchased DoW collection but all the addons are standalone separate installs and I'm stuck with limited Internet connection. I want to install only one game for now. Which one is essential for sp?

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xA-Qz5rKXQ

>>9087140
Soulstorm has even more content than Dark Crusade, adding 2 more factions and flying units. But it's made by different studio and can be unpolished at times, don't play it unless you're done with Dark Crusade and wanted more.

>Which one is essential for sp?
Winter Assault is an expansion to DoW. WA has Imperial Guard as the centerpiece but lets you branch into other factions, while in DoW you can only play as Spesh Muhreens in the campaign. Both Dark Crusade and Soulstorm are standalone. DC is the answer to "Gee, I wish I could play all those fancy factions in campaign."
If this is your first time then DoW with WA. As for the campaign I'd say WA because Imperial Guard is awesome and DoW campaign can get dull sometimes. Assuming you can get a hang of the game right away without DoW to serve as tutorial.

>>9087181
Thanks!

bump.

>>9087376
I just read about the Decoy ability; one side can make decoy structures and the other can make decoy units. This is a cool concept that I wish was used more in games. Too often the information warfare aspect is reduced only to fog of war.
Starcraft had Hallucination, and Red Alert had decoy structures, but the uses were somewhat limited.

>>9067760
Why was this and its sequel so comfy?

>>9083951
I liked SC2 for everything except the story. Whoever wrote that trash should be tarred and feathered. I even think they retconned the Overmind to be a good guy who was preparing for some other invasion or some other dumb shit. Idk personally because I couldn't be fucked to finish it.

>>9087580
About 3 months ago I was playing Shogun 1. Fun game but it becomes a slog towards the end.

>>9069207
Tiberian Sun is the C&C game with the most / best atmosphere but kind of the weakest gameplay
>Another GDI mission
>Build 10,000 Titans
>Win

>>9087505
>>9087376
Is this game good?

>>9087152
He's a decent caster for ASL and all, but damn he fails hard at adapting to shit then rages about it.
>Zerg player starts mass producing ultralisks and sends them in
FUCKING BULLSHIT, DOESN'T EVEN TAKE SKILL TO DO THAT!
>Protoss player exists
FUCKING CLOWN, MUST BE NICE TO HAVE THE WIN HANDED TO YOU!
*cries about Protoss always winning on Eclipse against Terran in 2 out of 3 games on the pro scene, even though the stats actually show Terran having more than 50% of the wins*

>>9087662
I wonder if it's possible to mod a rock-paper-scissor balance into TibSub

Are there any modern retro FPS games for Starcraft/Warcraft/CnC/Red Alert fans?

>>9087603
Overmind was retconned into being a good boy who got mind controlled into hating the Protoss. The ending of SC2 was bad enough to be considered a war crime but it also definitively wrapped up its own retardation, so SC3 could theoretically be a good story more like the first game. (I know I'm optimistically dreaming here, but SC3 won't happen anyway kek)

>>9086849
Aaand done! Pic related was my strike team.
To my surprise this mission was much easier than mission 9 where I was constantly harassed by defilers. Only scourge swarms were kind of problematic, but when I added dragoons to my team the problem was solved. I am bad at zealots, templars and archons so I didn't use them at all.
I'm eager to start Brood War but will play some HoMM3 first, another popular game from that time that I never played for some stupid reason. Next thread will probably be retro strategy, real-time and turn-based general.

>>9088030
And yes, as a C&C fan, especially Red Alert 1, I must say that Starcraft is simply overall better than any of the C&C games, except the fact that the missions felt like skirmish games for the most part. RA1 singleplayer has more cool scripted events, especially Counterstrike and Aftermath missions. I hope Brood War is better in this regard.

>>9087963
Natural Selection? Dunno how it is nowadays but it was the shit back in the day. Loved being part of a marine team led by a competent commander.

>>9087963
Are you sure you didn't mean RTS?

>play zerg against zerg AI to try out some different opening builds
>do anything besides 9-pool opening
>get completely wrecked by zergling rush at 2:30 since AI sees map at all times and will always go for zergling rush if you do anything besides 9-pool
>if you do drone harassment against AI, it overcompensates and will completely cripple itself trying to chase down one drone with every drone it has
>can't do anything other than 9-pool opener against zerg AI or can't even have a real match
>even in a 4-way FFA, the one zerg AI will still zero in on you if you don't do fucking 9-pool and take you out even if it's own base is being destroyed
>majority of sub-S ranked zerg players online are all 6-pool all-in's on every single game
I have a lot of respect for high-level zerg players, because playing zerg outside of campaign is boring as FUCK.

>>9088141
what the fuck is "9-pool" and why are you getting filtered by a single zerg ai bro. literally just mass mutalisks

>>9088143
>I wanna try different strategies
>DUDE JUST USE THE SAME BASIC STRATEGY EVERY TIME
>zerg player doesn't even know what strategies exist since does same thing every time
Thanks for proving my point. I'll stick with Terran and Protoss, where I can actually use a lot of different strategies instead of being stuck doing the same lame rush every time.

>>9088076
Oh you know, dev team trying to Jerry rig a 6v6 matched play mode that will only appeal to a small portion of a near-dead community. 80% of which only plays 10v10. Fixing like 2 per year of the dozens of bugs that have existed for a decade. Defensive pg meta. Stomp at 13-14 minutes meta. Highly random shotgun hitreg. That kinda thing. At least there is some form of development I guess.

>>9088170
i dont know any strategies by name because i'm not an autistic faggot who sits around googling the meta for games. i just play the game and learn. i guarantee you're under 25 because your generation is obsessed with googling the solution to every problem instead of experimenting and figuring it out on your own, and then you cry when you can't find one. im by no means a good player and 99% of my time spent playing the game has been singleplayer custom games but whining about getting turned out by a single zerg AI because you were too retarded to figure out even one winning strat is beyond sad. don't like mutas? okay, early zerg rush while you mass ultralisks. dont like that? maybe you could try a colony rush with some hydralisks to defend. there's hundreds of ways you can win but you havent figured one out. that's on you kiddo.

>>9088325
Imagine how mad you have to be to type all this shit out lol

>>9088410
imagine how bad at video games you must be to get filtered by 1 zerg AI lmao

>>9087662
Don’t Titans get their shit rocked once Nod arty starts showing up though?

>>9088030
>>9088056
Good job OP! And yeah, Brood War is where they really hit their stride with the mission scripting and using the full potential of the campaign editor I think. With vanilla it was a bit rougher; SC’s development was notoriously brutal.

>>9088030
Rly? Mission 9 was easy for me. Defilers are annoying, but they are there in mission 10 too, and harrassing humans is worse, because their buildings can catch fire.

I think mission 7 and especially mission 8 (Protoss vs Protoss) are the hardest. Probably the protoss AI was stronger than the zerg AI.

Start Brood War immediately. The story picks up where vanilla ends, but well, it's your choice.

>>9088030
>Kill the overmind with three times as much force as necessary to wipe anything off the map
>Tassadar boogies on over to sacrifice himself for no reason
Also, why did Blizzard have to make it so much more complicated to play online than it used to be? I even remember my old name and password but apparently that's no good anymore. Now they want to know my mother's maiden name or something.

>>9088416
>>9088325
He's not complaining about the zerg ai being too hard to beat, he's complaining about the specific way in which it sucks which makes it useless for practicing against. 9-pool means make a spawning pool when you have 9 supply (or control or whatever it's called for zerg) and is the fastest non-all-in aggression build for zerg iirc. One doesn't need google to pick something like that up if one pays any attention at all to pvp Starcraft.

>>9088774
>Tassadar boogies on over to sacrifice himself for no reason

Back when I played as a kid, I holed up in my corner of the map until I built a fleet of carriers and sent them on a suicide run to the Overmind. The ending cinematic was very accurate in showing how that run played out.

>>9067760
I got into starcraft in fall 1999 at the age of 11. Played it obsessively for the next few years after

never will forgive Blizzard for Starcraft 2

>>9088881
Haha same here. But I also had a fleet of Battlecruisers to help

>>9088141
there are AI mods for brood war if you want to practice builds

>>9072749
GenTool

>>9072984
>Terran
Goliaths
>Zerg
Hydralisks
>Protoss
Dragoons

>>9088802
and yet one does need to google to know what a "9-pool strat" means when he just started playing the game. he's a zoomer who got filtered by a single zerg AI and looked up "strategies" instead of playing the fucking game. checkmate retard.

>>9088141
Just stop playing the game, you're obviously a retard. Literally just build one sunken against the AI you tard, you're not playing against Koreans you're playing against the goddamn como

>>9089682
the kid has barely finished campaign and is googling opening strategies just like he has to google how to do a load of laundry. this generation is completely fucked.

OP here, don't ruin the thread plz.

>>9089726
shut up faggot

>>9089685
you realize the guy blogging about the campaign is not the same guy as the one talking about the AI right?

I'd like to play more SC, but after finishing the campaigns there is not much left to do (skirmmish mode is shit, and dont have anyone to play with). Any mod recommendation?

>>9089745
"the guy" is (You) and "the guy" has clearly just started playing

>>9089754
>mod
Just play UMS games with friends. Marine Special Forces, Sunken D, Turret Defense, etc. Or you can go full on year 2000 and find some ancient DBZ rpg maps.
https://maps.cool-knight.eu.org/Tons%20Of%20Maps/

>>9089732
Really? This is a place for comfy retro games discussion. You esports tryhards may go measure your e-dicks somewhere else.

>>9089779
i dont know who you think you're talking ti but i'm the guy admonishing the zoom zoom for looking up opening strats instead of playing the game so you're barking up the wrong tree, negrosex

>>9089754
Atrox. A batshit insane Korean carbon copy of SC.

>>9067998
spider bomb rush... oh god... dark dwarfs OP

>>9089762
I have zero friends.

>>9089757
yeah the guy who said he doesn't care for competitive rts, and who said he would take a break from starcraft after finishing the campaign definitely would be blogging about 9pools a few hours later. you're dumb as hell

>>9089784
You simply got baited. Just ignore the zoomers and don't ruin the thread with your seething. I could ask you to give some cool strats and tips here for noobs like me but it's apparent that you neither enjoy the game (anymore) nor the discussion.

>>9089791
The game is funny. It's a carbon copy of SC but the mechanics are switched around, i.e. protoss equivalent lose their worker unit on building instead of zerg etc

>>9089798
I feel sad for you underage kids. You will never fully enjoy this game as it was made to be played with others, the campaign was just a bonus. I used to play special forces all night on direct modem connection with my best bud, shit was cash.

>>9089845
OP here. I miss late 90's PC gaming so much. I had shit Internet connection but attended LAN parties where we played Red Alert, Mechwarrior and Quake all day long. I really feel stupid for not moving on to SC like many of my friends did back in the day but at least I have had my own share of early multiplayer experience.

>>9069207
is this game bad on purpose?

>>9067760
I don't think Act of War got the love it deserved. Both it and its expansion High Treason were great.

>>9087991
Why would they retcon the Overmind? He was a great villian. His whole purpose was to achieve 'perfection' and was absolutely obsessed with it. The entirety of SC and Blood War was excellent space opera. Why did they feel the need to just shit all over it?

>>9087723
That's what makes it funny, much more when people actually realize that like 70% of it isn't acting. He's an actual rager.

Man I have so much nostalgia for this game. We had some family friends staying over for a few weeks and their son had this on his PC. I remember seeing him play it and asked if i could and was just hooked. Was my first real pc game I ever played other than stuff like math blaster at school.

>>9089912
>Tiberian Motherfucking Sun
>bad

>>9090096
He's stupid

>>9090096
Not only there is nothing outstanding, but the controls are crap tier. What were they thinking? And people will defend them ...

>>9090319
Unless you elaborate you may as well fuck off

>>9090319
>RTS
>use mouse to do everything
>bad controls

Anon you feeling ok? You know you can remap keyboard right?

Universe at war was underrated

Most retro game for me was Tiberian sun

Love rats games

>>9090387
>No double click to select all units of the same type
>No auto attack when enemy crosses your path
>In fact, AI is blind

>>9089624
Or maybe he's not a zoomer but rather is someone like me who used to play well over a decade ago and wants to get back into it but can just barely remember a few basic builds?

I replayed the campaign in Age of Mythology earlier this year and I never really appreciated how great the level design in this game is.

>>9090605
>can select no more than 12 units
What a horrible idea. Must be a bad game.

>>9090709
I really love the idea behind AoM but I wish it was 2D like AoE2

Great thread guys
All hail the FUN AS FUCK Seven Kingdoms II
You can do so much shit on that one it's unreal

>>9090934
Is it like AoE?

>>9090945
Not quite, anon.
It's actually quite the complex game.
You have either human or alien races, there are a lot of 'em to choose from.
Then you have resource harvesting, tech research, lots and LOTS of diplomacy options, actual spying on other people, city management, religion, it's damn cool I tell ya.
Take a look at the Steam HD version's store page to get a quick clue about it. It's as patrician as it gets.

>>9090945
I remember getting it at random at a game store as a kid, the images on the box were cool.
Little did I know it would become one of my favorite games of all time lol

This is how Dune 2000 shoul ha've looked like

This is how I wish Dune 2000 looked like

Did they remaster this cutscene for SC Remastered?

Since this is a retro RTS thread, I recommend everyone to try the Kohan series. Very good games that rely on economy management, army composition and positioning instead of furiously microing units.

>>9088141
Bro I was 1v3 compstomping when I was 10 years old. Just turtle and rush endgame units. I think you just suck

>>9091149
Nope. They're just upscaled versions of the classics

>>9083629
>>9083291
I apologize if the answer is obvious, but isn't the remaster of Command and Conquer and Red Alert decent?

>>9091442
Its a 1:1 remaster. You can even switch from original graphics to modern anytime you want.

>>9090605
>No double click to select all units of the same type
There is a keybind for that. Also, a keybind for telling units to engage things beyond their range, but I can't really defend having to do that each time you move them around.

Anyone got funny bnet stories to share?

>be 12 years old
>join a "8maNN MeL33 N0 N0 RU5hHH!!!10MiNNN" game on Big Game Hunters
>convince 2 toss players to ally up and defend me while I tech to nukes
>send ghosts to their base and nuke all their probes simultaneously
>noobs don't know how to un-ally or to use the attack command
>They frantically right click on my ghosts to no avail
>spam kekekekkeke in the chat
Good times man

>>9091442
It's a soul vs soulless issue

>>9091881
Wow sucks to be you

>>9071454
Christ, literally a second ago I was trying to make a MIDI conversion of this and this fucker beat me to it...

Sigh...

>>9092029
he actually uses deflemask, which is a tracker that supports the genesis YM2612 FM chip. you can't import or export MIDIs at all (at least not yet). he's also sticking to hardware limitations (since deflemask imposes that restriction) as opposed to just using a genesis soundfont or ym2612 VST.
dont be discouraged is what im trying to say :)

>>9092043
Ahhh I see, still this cover is setting the bar very high. Fortunately his cover seems to be easier to decipher than the original song (pain in the ass with the guitar parts especially).

Doing this song and a few originals for a future Doom wad hopefully.

>>9092064
yeah a lot of these covers make the notes more clear.
different guy, and this cover is a little controversial for which notes it amplifies, byt this cover is a good example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO9eox0UL2g
>
Doing this song and a few originals for a future Doom wad hopefully.
nice! hope to see them posted here
i need to get around to actually finishing a music project myself :(

>>9091161
Seconding this. The original and Ahriman's Gift are really enjoyable. While Kohan 2 added some interesting changes, I didn't like it as much as the 2D ones.

>>9091442
It is. I’ve religiously played Tiberian Dawn since it came out and was blown away by the attention to detail they had with it. And like another anon said, you can always switch to the old graphics.

>>9090392
I wish UaW would get a proper rerelease.

>>9089970
>changed overmind
It’s the redemption arcs that became popular in storytelling over time I think, and particularly at blizzard it seems. Same deal happened with the orcs in Warcraft 3 becoming noble savages (their literal religion in the first two games was worship of the underworld). If I remember right Chris Metzen even said at one point later on that he was a fan of stories about villains that get redemption.

>>9092407
I get the redeemed villian trope, but should have just let the Overmind alone and focused on Kerrigan's redemption.

>>9088452
no because they dont build enough and you can mass titans and just walk up to the arty and kill them.

The tiberian sun single player is very bland gameplaywise and has little challenge outside of the no-build missions.

Tank spam in C&C was always a problem but just feels the worst in Tiberian Sun

>>9091881
Weenies never play melee anymore for this reason. Just ffa or ums.
>>9091973
t. guy who got griefed

>>9069727
There's a few scenario style maps that allow single player but appear to be balanced for two player cooperative. Twilight Struggle (comes in the scenario folder) and Endurance (downloaded from the old Blizzard site at http://classic.battle.net/scc/maps.shtml)) are both brutally hard for a single player and have no real story. There's also a single player indoors mission that does have some real story, but I find the thing awfully tedious. Oh, and I've heard that there's a hidden mission in that can be unlocked by beating a particular zerg mission in the Broodwar campaign in a certain time limit or something, but I don't know anything more about it.

>>9088774
>Tassadar boogies on over to sacrifice himself for no reason
They make it crystal clear that only a concentrated spirit bomb sacrifice from a God Tier Templar could put it down permanently. Positive and negative Xel'Naga energy canceling itself out.

>>9092407
Really wish companies would stop hiring morons that somehow miss the central themes. You can't redeem an Overmind because it isn't a moral being. It's a force of fucking nature.

The Zerg represent the id, a weapon of pure instinct that evolved to survive, and really nothing elself, with the Protoss represen the superego in living solely by their honor even when it costs them big, with Terran being the divided ego between them consolodating these extremes.

Is it weird that I've only discoveres Starcraft and fanboying over it? I've only played turn based strategies previously, fire emblem, advance wars and the like.

Is it weird that I've only just discovered Starcraft and fanboying over it? I've only played turn based strategies previously, fire emblem, advance wars and the like.

>>9095116
If you’re discovering RTS for the first time I envy the shit out of you. If you decide to get into them, play them in rough order of release and be unironically amazed by the incredible worlds and intricate gameplay styles that were built. That’s my advice anyway.

>>9095120
Should I try Warcraft 2 and C&C too?

>>9095141
Both for sure. Warcraft 2 is still fully playable, I played some tonight in fact. Get it on GOG. For C&C 1 and Red Alert, I highly recommend the remaster available from Petroglyph on Steam.

Earlier than those and you will start to run into trying to figure out how best to run them. Warcraft 1 is definitely jank these days but there is a utility you can run with it to make it way more playable. I love Warcraft 1 because it was my first PC game, and still play it occasionally but I don’t blame anyone for not wanting to fuck with it, because it is ancient. Same goes for Dune 2, it’s a fascinating journey into the past but it’s also esoteric and difficult to get running comfortably.

>>9095153
Warcraft 2 is essentially the same game as Starcraft, except the view is top-down, not isometric, the terrains are a bit simpler (particularly the trees), and the two factions are the same, except the spells. The music, the character artwork and some of the later levels are great though.

>>9093216
I liked Tiberian Sun, although it was stupid to have the exact same final level in both Nod and GDI side in Firestorm. It was amazing once, but not twice.

Also, the Nod missions were significantly easier in the vanilla campaign. The only time I felt challenged was the Blackout optional level, where disc throwers and engineers completely owned me.

>>9091072
Yeah, that Korhal tileset was so Dune-like. I guess the base of it was the WC2 wasteland tileset, but still looks more like Dune 2000.

The Char tileset looked like Draenor from WC2:BDP.

>>9095239
Starcraft is top-down too

>>9095239
>Warcraft 2 is the same game as StarCraft
Not really, unless you mean that in the the same in the way any of the later Command & Conquer games are the same as the original C&C, which they also aren’t.

>>9067829
If you like starcraft you'd probably like Dawn of War 1 (Dark Crusade is the best version gameplay-wise and has a free form conquest campaign). It has much of the mechanics you mentioned (dedicated spell casters, upgradeable buildings, tech buildings, etc) as well as some newer RTS mechanics like squad-based infantry and reinforcements, unit morale, and persistent base building. Units can be upgraded via tech, and often you can buy them power weapons. Unit and damage types are also much more clear, but also more important (bolters do dick against buildings for instance, an anti building arty piece might suck against vehicles but do ok on infantry, etc.)

My only complaint for the game is the pathfinding, and chaos/space marine squads are too populated, makes individual marines seem weak. There's a mod for that tho (gl with the pathfinding lol)

>>9095583
And since I'm raving about DC now anyway I might as well keep going

DC has, what, 7 fucking races? Necrons, Eldar, Space Marines, Chaos Space Marines, Imperial Guard, Tau, and Orks. If you agreed with the other anon about SC races ultimately employing massive armies that disregard faction nuance, DC doesn't have that problem nearly as much.

If you forget how Orks behave and you have a nice little choke point with 2 marine squads and a predator, you're eventually going to get overwhelmed by 4 fully reinforced squads of shitty t1 ork units.

Another mechanic DoW introduced is how it handles melee. When units engage in melee, the units they're attacking have to defend themselves with melee, and they can't shoot (doesn't apply to vehicles of course). Imagine if SC marines had to use a shitty 1 dmg rifle butt whenever zerglings were clawing them.

You're working as Tau on containing this Nekron base so you can expand into the rest of the map. The Tau are basically gundam anime commies, their ranged dps is incredible. Things are going well, when oh shit Nekrons just deep strike'd 2 squads of flayed ones right ontop of your fire warriors and your dumbass didn't make any Kroot cavemen to deal with this possibility. You just went from ~60 ranged dps to fuckin 4 melee dps against a t2 heavy infantry unit with a fear aura and 40 melee dps, good luck asshole.

Space Marines and Chaos SM are all heavy infantry that are good in pretty much any situation, but they're expensive. Losing a single squad of marines can be extremely difficult to recover from, even reinforcing a couple marine squads can get you caught in a financial downward spiral. Meanwhile Imperial Guard is throwing infantry squads at you with like 16 fuckin guys in each unit, all carrying a dozen plasma guns, and with attached Commissars (you can attach unique infantry to other squads for bonuses) are periodically executing guardsmen for invincible morale and 2x fire rate buffs.

>>9068073
>"Make an army that's effective when a-moved"
probably the best advice you can give a new player desu. Too many protoss noober boobers see reaver drops and arbiter drops and psistorm and think that's what they gotta do.

>>9095141
Absolutely. And as fellow Anon said, get GoG version of WC2 and C&C Remastered. But one point I think you should know is that, except for the spell casters, the races in WC2 are virtually identical

>>9095153
>Warcraft 1 is definitely jank these days but there is a utility you can run with it to make it way more playable
Oh wow, I didn't know that. Whats the utility? I'd love to go through it again

>>9094638
It's the second to last Zerg Mission in Brood War but i can't remember the time frame you need to get it. If you just turn on power overwhelming and rush the objective you get the secret mission easily.

>>9095951
Here you go anon: https://community.pcgamingwiki.com/files/file/954-warcraft-mouse-helper/

It’s really good. One thing you might need to do though is play with the cycles in Dosbox to make sure you don’t get dropped inputs. I made a batch file that runs this and also changes the cycles on load and then I just double click the batch file to run whenever I was to play. Hopefully the download is still safe, it was as of a few months ago at least.

>>9096437
Thanks for link, Anon. Gave it a go and works great. There are some issues though like clerics not moving without being a in a group, but still a hell of an improvement

>>9083202
Some AoE2 missions are utter kino so you'll be missing out skipping them all

>>9097231
Some people got overwhelmed by billionty zillion new campaigns in HD and DE.

>>9097056
Weird, just tested clerics moving and it worked for me even with just one. I do seem to remember a few strange quirks like that though.

Captcha: PS4WTH

>>9097231
Unironically how do I into AoE2? I love Starcraft, CoC, and even AoE1, but AoE2 has just never clicked for me. I don't think its even a setting thing because I tend to prefer the Middle Ages to the Ancient World.

>>9098729
If you’ve already gotten used to other rts schemes, AoE is going to seem slow-paced and limited. You either have to accept the gameplay pace for what it is or play a more exciting offshoot of the franchise, like age of mythology or Star Wars:GB.

I used to only play a little bit of AoE at a time because it would start to drag quickly—I was used to Blizzard’s rts style.

>>9098774
That's sort of what I was trying to get at. I can play AoE1 for hours at a time without getting tired of it, but I usually have to take a break after a single map of AoE2. It feels like I can't understand my own autism here.

OP here. This mission kinda sucked.

>>9099292
No, you suck

>>9099292
That's kinda vague. I remember liking the design idea at least, although I can't recall the execution exactly.

>>9099292
What mission is that?

>>9099292
That mission is kino (the last two batteries are incredibly tedious though yeah)

>>9099292
That one grows on you over time. It's one of my favorites now

>>9100115
The very last one was just fast suicide attack by scouts right after I destroyed second to last one.

So anyway, how do I get into Warlords Battlecry? Which one is the best? Which one should I start with? What's the difference between them?

>>9098964
It’s not autism, AoE is just boring and limited when compared to most other classic RTS titles. If someone gives me a choice between AoE and WC3, I’m going to play Warcraft.

>>9101553
Is Galactic Battleground an improvement in this regard?

>>9101568
Somewhat. It’s more fun because it’s got the Star Wars theme (from back when sw was actually fun) plus some tech tree/gameplay improvements. Also, faction differences actually matter, unlike base AoE where everything balances out. The campaigns also have tighter storylines.

On a quest to complete all AoE2's campaigns on Hard. Playing them in order of release. So far did all the AoK, AoC and 4 Forgotten campaigns. Playing Pachacuti right now, and goddamn it got hard, the first three scenarios of this campaign were brutal. Had to learn to properly use onagers to make it through.

>>9101602
Yeah, it can get rough. I think the key is spacing out your gameplay (eg one mission a day, etc.) to avoid the repetitive feel of the game kicking in.

>>9100626
Anyone? Is the series worth trying at all?

I think indie games don't work in the RTS genre because RTS doesn't only need good game mechanics, but great personality and storylines too. Even decent storytelling can be in the focus of criticism, so devs must outdo themselves to catch attention.

I've seen videos from various clones, like KKND, Kingdom Under Fire, Atrox, Armies of Exigo, Warlords Battlecry etc., but they will never get the fraction of the attention of the AAA titles sadly, even if they have some merit in them.

>>9100027
Battle of Braxis, one of the very few PvT missions in the game. No base buildings, just logic and puzzles. It has a great replay value imho, because of the unique playstyle you need there.

Btw. the 4th (penultimate) power station is much harder than the last one. You need to utilize the strength of all your forces there, including psi-storm, spider mine reveal etc.

The last one was just a brute force battle with scouts, dragoons, etc.

>>9069634
>Allied War factory(?) looks like a temple of nod

>>9069634
>Shadows are drawn in four different directions

>>9088881
Essentially my strategy for dealing with any assassination mission until I started to come back to these games regularly and beat them decisively by picking apart any unit an building besides the target before destroying it last.

I kinda remember doing that for example in RA2's penultimate soviet mission via kirov rush and trying and failing to do the same in the very last mission as well, until i later found out that you can essentially finish the last mission by training a dreadnought up to elite level and then just shooting close enough for the splash damage to do the rest. But now, I tend to capture the allied forward base, build up a copy of every allied building on the starting island and then churn out OP veteran-level prisma tanks with Kirovs relegated to block choke points via forcing ground attack and drawing fire for V3 rockets or vice versa in certain situations.

Console pleb, but these are my childhood

Not /vr/, but does Grey Goo worth your try? They said, it's the closest thing you can get into the CnC/SC style.

>>9103647
It’s very spammy as far as the combat, like SC2’s deathballs taken up to 11. Production values were pretty good though. The campaigns are quite short, 5 missions for each of the three races (15 total) in the base game. I think a couple more got added in a free DLC along with a fourth faction. The faction asymmetry was quite pronounced, with one faction not even using buildings. Units and buildings take ice ages to produce.

Is there any good RTS with custom made campaigns (be it in steam workshop or not) out there?

My RTS life ended after the Battle for Middle Earth games and I never returned to any of it.

>>9103679
Pretty much all blizzard rts games from sc2 backwards have custom campaigns you could download off bnet. Not sure that paradigm still exists since it’s been a while and I never tried bnet with the refagged version of WC3, though.

Old Blizzard was always keen on level editors to enable this.

>>9103667
You mean I should play on easy skill?

>>9104042
they removed custom campaigns from the new version of warcraft 3. Theres a custom mod launcher that allows you to play them again

OP here, I screwed up on Brood War Protoss mission 8. I've cleared some of the map from Zerg (see picrelated) but wasted all my minerals on a fleet of carriers. Even with the corsairs support, my fleet is very beat up at this moment to continue the operation. I have assembled all my probes and sent them on a suicide mission to bring minerals from the area around the temple back to one of the starting bases, so I have enough resources to build a nexus near the temple. My carriers are trying to provide cover as much as they can.

>>9072749
This game came out at peak War on Terror Patriotism America Fuck Yeah, is comfy af.

Also it predicted ISIS

Coming from Yuri's Revenge, a peak C&C game, Generals was so boring and uninspired.

>>9105885
Original C&C was a reaction to the post-Cold War World Order. Red Alert was boomers reliving their childhood. Yuri's Revenge was the boomers running out of ideas. Generals was a response to 9/11

>>9105892
Whatever, Generals is still boring while YR is great.

>>9067858
Yeah but it's controls remain the best for any rts game. Even the new AoE game is a bit worse. I wish we had a modern LotR RTS with sc2 controls.

>>9081110
Yes

>>9091072
It is pretty clear that both C&C and Warcraft/Starcraft went to different directions gameplay wise but Dune II is a starting point for both. I really feel like Blizzard style gameplay would fit Dune RTS better than a C&C knockoff in Dune skin which Dune 2000 was.

>>9102737
An RTS definitely needs a decent story and compelling characters. I mean you're a general commanding an army, without an overarching story and goals you're basically just playing skirmish mode. And generic units don't have enough personality on their own to carry a campaign, you need your space opera bullshit with a handful of larger-than-life characters deciding the fate of the planet/system/galaxy/whatever

>>9104796
Ugh, really? As someone who was playing WC3 on bnet back in 2002, this is so disappointing. There used to be so many custom games, campaigns, and maps up there that you might never run out of things to try with friends. And the community kept those games alive long after they would’ve otherwise faded away like their predecessors. Feels like a perfect example of the transition from the early, wide-open, libertarian web of the late 90s/early 2000s to the borderline dystopian, locked down, DRM megacorp web our society is now building.

Thank God for the crevices of the net keeping the flame alive…

>>9105836
Weird that you get fucked there. I've always had a much tougher time with the mission before it.

>>9106643
The one with Aldaris's tragic death? That was a very fun mission. The orange protoss is keeping building of your army of carriers, templars, archons.

It was one of the most memorable missions in the game. My picks are for top 5:

1. Dark Origin (secret level in episode 6, absolutely stunning revelation)

2. The Hammer Falls (episode 1 final level, it was such a tragic moment, great layout, and a huge leap in difficulty)

3. The Insurgent (the 3 Aldaris mission...great scenery, atmosphere, and tragic ending)

4. Agent of the Swarm (episode 2, level 4... fucking Chrysalis opens, and even Raynor is there)

5. Drawing of the Web (episode 6, level 7.... although every level beyond that is a contender.... loved how I had to use ground forces only to beat the protoss pylon wire)

>>9106741
>Jimmy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VETyqYI77go

>fire up bnet for the first time in 10 years
>matched up against Terran
>pull off the slowest dark templar rush of all time with my crippled arthritis sausage fingers
>guy has zero detection and a gapped wall off
>in his base killing his dudes
>gg

I forgot how ez protoss was

>>9106774
>playing mulitplayer

>>9105836
Good thing that out of all the races, Protoss does best in a low mineral environment since it gets so much value out gas heavy Archons.

>>9106643
That mission was ez actually. I just captured strong enemy units with my dark archons all the time and built an army this way.

>>9106774
Your first few placement match is meant to be piss easy. Keep grinding them out and eventually they'll place you against someone that knows to build turrets before the ten minute mark.

>>9106804
What's the matter? Mommy took away your internet privileges?

>>9069540
>>9069634
Red Alert 1 is still better, reason why CnCnet wont die.

>>9107407
OP here, Red Alert 1 has been my favorite but Starcraft takes its place probably.
Finished Protoss BW campaign, will be missing Dragoons and Reavers for a while. Won't be missing boring Protoss music.
Now playing through Terran mission pic related and I'm really liking it. Kind of a tutorial mission out of sudden.

Red Alert Counterstrike and Aftermath still have the best music in RTS history though.

>>9107407
>CnCnet
YR has more players

>>9069540
I loved all the wacky bullshit and hammier than an English Breakfast FMV intro segments for a one time playthought, but the core gameplay itself is dull as dishwsher to me. Scout with doggos then attck move tanks. Yawn. I know they weren't chasing the emergin e-sports market when they made it, but they still could have allocated at least a fraction of their resources on adding some balance and depth.

>>9107458
>Kind of a tutorial mission out of sudden.
Yeah, expect a couple of those. The Protoss campign mde sure you learned how DT and Corsairs worked, and as a very minor spoiler, the Zerg on will make sure you learn how Lurkers work. The missions they built around these units still fit into the story, so I didn't mind at all.

>Protoss Gteways
Don't actull produce new units, instead they use consume resources to teleport in already trined units from Aiur.
>Missions tht take place on Aiur
Protoss sill making gatewys.

Was I the only one that was ever buged by this?

What are your favorite matches from Brood War? I just came across this somewhat old tournament set between Flash and Jaedong (two of the all-time best), and every game was a blast:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIrL6Z9Wxpk
YouTube is crammed full of stuff from Falcon Paladin, and I find him to be sloppy and ignorant as a caster.
I played only small amounts of BW/SC2 multiplayer personally, but am somewhat knowledgeable about each. I have a hard time getting into SC2 because the variability in maps and strategy seems smaller than in BW; it feels like I'm seeing more or less the same things done each game.
>>9107627
The battlefield still isn't close to where the factories and whatever exist. The entire surface of Aiur clearly isn't devoted to weapon production.
>>9107465
>Sole Survivor was created purely for multiplayer, has 0 players
Ouch. Stupid idea anyway, from what I could tell. I heard Twisted Insurrection was good, so I'm surprised it has no players. Maybe only the campaign is good?

>>9107714
>What are your favorite matches from Brood War?
Ma Jae Yoon vs Byun Hyung Tae in the Shinhan 3 OSL
Kim Taek Yong vs Ma Jae Yoon in the GOM 1 MSL
Yes, I know, those happened at almost the same time and it was right around when I started getting into Starcraft, but I'm not the only one who thinks they were good.

Similarly, I too played less than a couple hundred multiplayer games of Starcraft and was never more than one step above noob, but I've followed the Koreans on and off for over fifteen years now.

>>9107627
I always assumed it was local jumps from training facilities on the planet - basically the same as flying dudes in in real life.

>>9107714
>favorite matches from Brood War
ASL3 Flash vs Soulkey, 2nd set at 48min in.
Soulkey 4pools Flash. Flash gets his shit pushed in

https://youtu.be/VtbiRiO3nBE

>>9107458
The first UED mission with no vespene was a bitch. Easily the hardest opening level.

>>9108623
Why? I just played it for the first time ever and ran into Duran with a vesper geyser nearby while scouting.

>>9108636
Bad players don't scout. They turtle until they're population maxed. That's why infinite resources custom maps were so popular.

>>9108486
Fucking zerg players. No respect at all.

>>9108642
I'm a noob. I literally scouted on this mission just because a marine said that we need to find a geyser, lmao.
Wait a minute. Was it a clever tutorial too?