/vr/ - Retro Games

I have a few TVs but no CRT monitors. Where should I start/what should I look for if I want to get into monitors?

>>9062842
>They Won't Last Forever Edition

eventually CRTs will become enough of a novelty that some startup company will start producing them again.

>>9063020
>we go backwards all for the sake of Videogames
could you imagine, considering alot of big names and e-celebs want the best looking picture for tech as well. Its not that farfetched

>>9063047
There are some small companies producing new nixie tubes. I expect CRT to return in the future as an expensive novelty for retro game enthusiasts

what the he’ll is crt and why do you fags talk about them constantly. i play dkc on snes on my curved samsung tv just fine. only thing i’ve had trouble with is house of the dead on dreamcast but who cares

>>9062842
how common is phosphor decay? I just got burned on a monitor with horrible trailing.

>>9063020
>>9063047
>>9063050
This has been proven to be impossible and yet people still wanna believe it anyway. I wonder what the psychology is behind it? People who missed out on getting high quality CRTs? Or does the idea of CRTs being dead tech make them uncomfortable, in the sense of "the world you've known is gone forever"

>>9063068
homesick for a place that no longer exists

>>9063020
supply chain doesn't work like that, you need an entire industry behind it.

>>9062847
craigslist / offerup

i just snagged a killer one for $8
tendakk hdmi>vga works great
no power required no sync issues

portta seems good too but requires power and didnt work with every device i was trying to use your mileage may vary.

remember hdmi2vga converters are usually not downscaling the input source so you have to send something somewhat acceptable resolution-wise (refresh)

>>9063072
in 10 years fags will be seething
10x worse than the mister threads

please just buy a crt for cheap and closet it now so i dont have to read that garbage
a recap by a professional is usually less than $100

I hear people praising those Ipad 3 LCD monitors, are they a good substitute?

>>9063085
Wouldn't call them a "replacement", I don't think any kind of LCD could be. But they're nice for portable stuff.

>>9063020
It would make a lot more sense to create a new display which can emulate the look instead.

>>9063134
getting the scanlines is a tall order
everyones scanlines looked slightly different (manufacturer tolerances)

the bloom/blur itself is difficult to recreate without appearing smeary

just look at the retrotink2x scanlines built in- literally unusable kek

Those aren't the issue anymore, specific shaders on OLEDs/QLEDs can get an image nearly indistinguishable from a CRT. The only real differences are the motion clarity which isn't quite CRT levels and OLEDs can't get as bright as a CRT in peak condition (granted, it's not like you're easily finding those CRTs in 2022).
That all being said, I think trying to perfectly capture all the quirks of a CRT is unnecessary, and is largely just an excuse for people to flex their programming skills. I used to know people who would do shit like HDMI mod their consoles for that sharp emulator image, so seeing people try to make their emulators look as shitty as possible makes me laugh. The real benefits of a CRT is mainly stuff shaders can't capture, imo.

>>9063170
Meant for >>9063138

>>9062842
If I had all the time and money, I would seek out and destroy all the old tech crap.. especially crts and related products.
A YouTube channel created especially to show myself hammering this old crap into small pieces.

>>9063192
yeah well you dont

>>9063068
>impossible
please explain

>>9063020
LOL people still believe this shit after industry experts have told us it'll never happen. Economies of scale.

>>9063292
CRTs require a ton of industrial machinery to be manufactured and also have a ton of manual work behind them. Plus a lot of the chemicals in them are banned by environmental laws. The only way they're coming back is if some massive industry has really high demand for them. I heard vacuum tubes are better suited for space due to the radiation out there so maybe CRTs might come back if space ever becomes a thing but even in that extreme case it's unlikely.

>>9063295
[citation needed]

>>9063192
what's the matter, too poor?

>>9063306
https://youtu.be/TVLVaoA-fic

There's your citation. This is what CRT manufacturing looked like. Even if someone could make their own CRTs in a hobbyist operation, what they'd produce would be more like a bulbous black and white screen from the 1950s as opposed to the top quality ones from the 1990s that benefited from decades of refined processes and industrial innovation. Shit, the reason CRTs went out of fashion wasn't because of their size and weight but because LCDs were so much faster and cheaper to manufacture. Remember that even right up until the end of their production, CRTs were expensive. Today you can buy a nice TV for a couple hundred. A top of the line 36" standard definition CRT in 2004 was $1800-$2000. That was the MSRP of those FV310s people rave about so much.

The good news, however, is that you don't need new tubes. What you need is new everything else. And a custom chassis that can accept a drop-in tube actually is possible.

https://www.retrorgb.com/interview-with-open-source-crt-chassis-creator.html

It's early in development right now but the concept is solid: tubes themselves are "dumb." They don't really have much going on inside of them. All they want is a voltage. You could theoretically pull the tube out of a cheap RF-only television, drop it into a new chassis, and then have a multisync capable monitor with every input under the sun. You'd still be limited by the TVL of the mask but it would get you 90% of the way to a "perfect" screen.

>>9063338
>https://youtu.be/TVLVaoA-fic
There isn't a single part of this that can't be done by hand. The reason they have massive machines do it is because they had to shit out industrial quantities of CRTs everyday day. The problem is it takes like 5-6 different trades including obscure niche stuff like glass blowing. People are already homebrewing vacuum tubes for audio/music autism. It's just the audiophiles are 1000x more common than CRT enthusiasts.

>>9063170
do good shaders capture the color blurring of CRTS? I know it;s a bit of a meme but some game graphics were designed with CRTs in mind

>>9063370
Yeah, with NTSC-Adaptive. You can really crank up the grunginess. There's also blending shaders that try to keep the art looking clean but that stuff can be hit or miss.

>>9063381
There's something these shaders miss that I can't put my finger on when they do this. It's hard to do a side-by-side comparison because cameras can't pick up CRTs well either.

>>9063301
thanks anon

>>9063338
>Custom Chassis
There's even people rewinding yokes to make vector screens (for Star Wars, among other things).
>>9063301
Even then it'll be small displays for HUDs and MFDs. You ain't seeing 36 inchers back until some crazy billionaire decides do finance it and the only one in mind jacks off to touchscreens.

>>9063301
Still waiting for someone to point out the specific part that requires a massive industrial machine and why every part can't be done by hand, even if it requires 5 different trades.

>>9062842
Got a really clean Trinitron for free from an old lady who lived in practically a mansion. It was in the guest room. She said it had probably been turned on less than 10 times in 25 years kek

There will be working CRTs long past when we are dead, so don't worry about it my friend.

>>9063365
Are we talking technically possible or practical? Yes, you could technically hand make a CRT. But it would be a shit TV. There's no chance it would be even as good as a 13" woodgrain from the 1980s. So what would be the point then? Just to prove it can be done? Besides, doing it by hand would drive the price up to absurdity. Even if there were some genius hand building quality CRTs, they'd be $10,000 each, minimum. Just getting the materials would be expensive.

>>9063192
Fox and the grapes

>>9063414
>But it would be a shit TV
[citation needed]

>Even if there were some genius hand building quality CRTs, they'd be $10,000 each, minimum. Just getting the materials would be expensive
This is true though. Those machines really drove the cost down because they could shit out multiple CRTs a day.

>>9063421
Why don't I [citation needed] your "every part can be done by hand" bullshit? Go ahead and find a glass blower that can give you a view screen with zero imperfections and distortion. I'll wait.

>>9063384
Yeah, I agree. I think for me, the knowledge that the grunginess is fake kinda ruins it for me. I see a heavily fucked up image and know that it's not authentic. I don't feel that away about more subtle shaders, though.

>>9063421
>This is true though. Those machines really drove the cost down because they could shit out multiple CRTs a day.
Ok, so what's the argument then? Even if it could be technically possible it's pragmatically impossible because nobody is going to be able to afford the resulting product. At best you'd find one rich autist per year willing to buy your boutique CRTs when perfectly good ones can be found for free in the literal trash. Better to rally behind that guy in the RetroRGB interview and support his work.

>>9063435
>It's impossible to create smooth glass except in the 90s
Wow. I've seen people who never touched a workbench in their life say some retarded shit to shut down DIY projects but this takes the cake. Like I said it takes multiple trades but it couldn't be any clearer you just see gigantic machinery designed to ship 1000s of units a day and immediately think that's the only way to do things. There isn't really anything else to say.

>>9063448
It's obnoxious seeing made up stuff based on assumptions. No one needs to get turbo autistic and pick up 5 different skills to build a CRT because they're easily available today. But times change.

>>9063436
I don't think it's that for me. I play on my shitty consumer CRT more than my PVM because the dirtier image works better for some games but when I see shaders there's always something off. Like it's the wrong type of blurring or noise or something. Maybe the specific color and brightness of each pixel affects the areas around it in a way these shaders haven't replicated yet.

>>9063458
Are you retarded? The argument is that any hobbyist project would be inferior to the industrial processes that produced TVs in the 90s, which is fucking true. Sure, get a bunch of those tradesman together to build a single CRT and see what they produce. Even back in the 50s they had real factories building the things with a lot more people than a hobbyist could afford to pay. Unless you think producing one CRT every two years is a good idea, it just isn't possible. You need the manpower for this stuff, which you yourself admit. "Multiple trades" is not some basement project.

recomended settings on a Sony Wega? VM on off or low? sharpness 100 or 0? temp cold hot or neutral?

>>9063458
What assumptions? You're arguing a non-issue. Whether or not it's TECHNICALLY possible for some guy to build his own CRT in a workshop is pointless when actually doing that is an unreasonable undertaking. People keep asking why there aren't new CRTs being made in the same way people make flashcarts and other retro hardware. The answer "it isn't possible" is sufficient enough to convey the reality.

>>9057721
Very nice, anon. Glad to see you got it to work.

>I've tried changing the numbers on the left in CRU but it didn't change anything
It should help at least a little, have you fiddled around with it after your post? No help?

Nanao MS-8 29" arcade monitor.

>>9063641
>>9063638
show the cabinet, also how much did it set you back?

>>9063638
>>9063641
This is why I'm on team consumer curved shadowmask as opposed to PVM. If you're playing video games you can't get more authentic than the type of screen that was used in arcade cabinets. Forget PVMs, they weren't even trinitrons in those things. A consumer JVC or Toshiba is the perfect TV for gaming.

>>9063707
It's not my pic.

I've got a Sont Trinitron KV-2091R just laying around is there any reason I cant mod it so it does RGB? Im literally only going to use it to play N64 games but I cant stand composite anymore

>>9063771
unless you mod your N64 to do RGB, what's the point?

>>9063776
it is I actually just got it modded with the PixelFX mod

>>9063783
isn't the PixelFX mod for HDMI?

>>9063793
It also has RGB output

>>9063503
VM should be off. Sharpness should be low, but 0 may actually introduce blur, so adjust it alongside some kind of pattern, or put on a game with simple sprite graphics and simply decrease it until you no longer see white outlines around the sprites. Temperature should be neutral IIRC.

>>9063192
dangerously based
>>9063308
>>9063415
holy seething and malding

>>9063402
The radium crystal imported from barsoom
The glass had to pounded out in mines of moria by expert dwarven craftsmen
Hecatomb to the CRT gods is too expensive

POST MORE CRT TVS YOU FUCKING FAGGOTS

>>9063402
The vacuum tube that has a shadow/slot mask with gases that are no longer legally used

>>9063402
How would you make the shadowmask by hand? Something that precise has to be machined.

>>9064148
And also insert it into the glass while the glass is being formed into the shape it needs while also being gassed

>>9064076
NO U

>>9063370
As a kid gramma had a genesis hooked to a TV with a channel dial knob. I never saw the level of blur expressed in these photos. The water in Sonic was never purely translucent. Streets of rage shadows looked like blurry checker boards. The truth is shaders make something that is better than reality, if you are willing to take the time to cherry pick a shader for each system and game.

>>9064210
I used composite on a pretty good TV back in the day (still have it in the basement) and it's pretty much like anons picture (thing still works). I think your memory is shit.

>>9062842
Got an HD Sony Wega for 25 USD from some rednecks 10 miles from civilization. Absolutely beautiful picture.

>>9064379
What model?

>>9064385
model number peeled off, but it outputs 1080i. Is a KD-34XBR970 I believe.

>>9063301
>>9063402
the only two parts that actually require a complex process are the tube itself and the phosphor screen, the difficulty of restarting production is vastly overrated, and CRT's are still being made for industrial purposes.

everything else is just bog standard electronics with nothing special about them, but even if a new CRT was to be made it would be digital and thus destroy the advantage of analog circuitry, adding the same lag and bullshit as you see with LCD's

displayport is not even possible to use with analog displays at all, you need an active converter which adds lag

what you really should be wanting is laser scanning displays, it's exactly the same principle as a CRT but with a laser instead of electron beam which means you don't need a vacuum tube which is most of the bulk and difficulty of a CRT. the technology already exists for pocket projectors and could easily be developed further for a higher spec monitor or TV. there is literally nothing preventing this from being done except stupidity.

>>9063402
You can’t do this by hand in volumes that would make it economically viable.
Also I’m not really sure what you mean in terms of ‘by hand’. You need machinery for this as the precisions need to be quite exact.

>>9064396
Nah I’m fine with modern TVs.

>>9064394
Ah, from what I understand that was Sony's last HD CRT. I had the 30XS955, and it was great for 6th/7th-gen stuff, not so much for older consoles due to how it mishandled 240p.

and even if we accept the premise that CRT production is "too hard" and rule out laser scanning for no good reason, there is even less reason that a good retro monitor could not be made with current flat panel technology.

seriously some 4:3 high dpi monitor, maybe OLED, say 1440x1080 or 2880x2160, using the same kind of low persistence technology as VR, with a high quality low latency scaling chip that accepts all the same oddball resolutions and refresh rates as a multisync monitor would be great for retro computers

currently you have to buy old LCD's that were made specifically for compatibility back then, and old LCD's are complete shite

again there is literally no reason this could not be done except stupidity, and the dumbass gooks in charge of panel manufacture right now are fucking braindead insect men, they can't even get basic circuitry for a 1440p monitor right, mine is so fucking buggy at anything but native res.

bring computer manufacture back to white countries and see change

>>9064414
>"too hard"
stop, this is not the point being made
it's not something you can do without the machinery specifically for it and it's an expense that will not turn a profit so it will not happen

>>9064414
If you are so upset about this the do it yourself.
No advantage in sitting wherever you are calling people ‘brain dead insect men”
It’s not commercially viable as most people want the biggest, lightest, highest res modern screen they can get,
If you think the niche hobbyist market wants this then start your own company and stop ranting.
My take on it is that the autists just want old screens that remind them of years gone by, they don’t want new ones. The zoomers who didn’t grow up with them just want to try it for a while and get bored.
Either way I am fairly sure there is no market but again - go and prove me wrong.

>>9064425
there is absolutely a market for those old trash LCD's simply because they support old video modes, but they are still trash

just make one except with good modern image quality and fast pixel response times, how hard could it be?

>>9064407
Sonic Mania and newer widescreen anime look beautiful on it. Not sure about older games though.

>>9063059
CRT is a cathode ray tube monitor / TV, they arent necessary to play games and are generally obsolete, but have aspects that some retro enthusiasts prefer. House of the Dead didnt work for you because the tech that makes a light gun work is reliant on the bubble like curve a CRT screen has.

>>9064452
>some
hehehe

>>9063370
>>9063381
ywnbacrt. Can filterfags fuck off? This is for the real thing.

>>9064475
>Can filterfags fuck off?
Nah.

No wonder these threads barely get any replies anymore. Much like women, filterfags have ruined the hobby.

>>9063370
CRT's are not the cause of blurring, but the absolute dogshit NTSC standard and cheap composite cables are, EU consoles never got those effects because they output RGB to begin with

>>9063170
sample and hold will never match the motion clarity, that is because a CRT flashes an image really quickly, so even if you move your eyes across it, it stays sharp. slow pixel response times also means you can't just put a strobe backlight in an LCD since the image will get smeared from transitioning pixels.

>>9063725
consumer CRT's also had all sorts of antireflective coatings meant to make the screen look darker in lit rooms. the pro monitors have absolutely zero of that and will just light up with the slightest stray light in a room, so you lose a lot of the color accuracy benefits if you aren't in a low light studio environment like they were designed for

>>9064527
>CRT's are not the cause of blurring, but the absolute dogshit NTSC standard and cheap composite cables are, EU consoles never got those effects because they output RGB to begin with
CRTs by design are better at scaling lower resolutions. Composite artifacting and dithering has been used by some consoles / games but CRTs themselves, even over RGB have inherit properties.

The waterfalls in Sonic thought were specifically designed for the shit composite decoder used in the earlier Mega Drives / Genesis.

>>9064527
>sample and hold will never match the motion clarity, that is because a CRT flashes an image really quickly, so even if you move your eyes across it, it stays sharp. slow pixel response times also means you can't just put a strobe backlight in an LCD since the image will get smeared from transitioning pixels.
Just a matter of time. Of course one day you'll have identical results with strobing (or even emulated rolling scan) and high response rate flat panels.

>>9064528
I don't think coatings are really a problem, you can take off coatings from displays and you can add them yourself, it's more dependant on where you use them.

>>9064475
Agreed. Even with a hypothetically good shader, you wouldn't get the latency benefits anyway.

>>9064486
most people have moved onto red-dit where there's far more activity and resources for assistance and so all thats left is really just filterfags and the occasional actual crt owner

>>9064476
>posts CRT
Based faggot

>>9064615
It's a CRT with a shader. These things aren't mutually exclusive and vice versa, you know.

>>9064419
>>9064425
Pretty sure you're talking to a /pol/ user considering the bit about bringing computers back to white countries, as if Japan doesn't exist. The consumer display industry is super competitive & risk-adverse, we're just now getting QD-OLED monitors for desktop PC use. The main reason LCDs were able to take off is because smaller and more energy-efficient displays is something most of humanity wants.

Hello again CRT bros, I've managed to use my CRT TV to output 480i, with MiSTER cable VGA to SCART on my modern PC which has GTX 1070, but when I changed the resolution and tried once again 480i, it just didn't work, no matter what I try I get "no signal" screen.
Am I missing something?

>>9064076

>>9064731
Not sure but it says right there that you’re pushing out a 34khz signal

>>9064731
nvidia should very well have build in TV modes somewhere, but it needs to see the connected device as a TV

>>9064831
>>9064731

>>9064831
>>9064843
I tried that as well, didn't work

>>9064859
It has definitely got to do with that timing youre outputting

if all else fails there's some 2010 ish era gpu's with s-video output that definitely works. I remember playing BC2 on a philips CRT with that

>>9064865
I've also tried CRU

>>9064883
it needs to be 15khz and 525 lines total
I'm sure there's some preset settings you can find

Uk here, just went down the local tip and saw the tv section full of high quality old crts, with scart connections all obviously smashed when thrown into the tip.

Bet they all worked as well. Like looking at a mourge. Went to the local charity shops and they don't accept tube tvs there. Depressing thinking about all that high quality tech getting killed

>>9064621
Holy shit. This is a new low.

>>9064956
Look for charities that do house clearances. I picked one up (picrel) from Compton Hospice, 21 inch Samsung TV/DVD combo, barely used (it was in some old lady's spare room) last year, wasn't much. Either look on their websites or look if they have an eBay shop. Even with eBay prices the way they are it's more palatable if it's going to charity.
Gumtree and Shock seem to have loads too, if you can deal with the dickheads.
Point is, I think more get sold now than go to the tip. At least round here, where accessing the tip is a baffling ordeal.

>>9064407
https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comments/raqggk/my_36_pvm_s_retrotink5x_on_a_36_super_fine_pitch/

HD CRTs can be amazing for retro stuff so long as you feed it the right signal so that it bypasses all the internal scalers.

>>9065225
One thing I tried once was use my Wii with RetroArch to feed it 480p, then used a simple scanline filter. It looked remarkably nice, and it didn't dim the image either. Never really used it like that again, though, since I preferred emulating on my PC with a CRT monitor.

>>9065237
Thing is that they don't want 480p. They actually want 540p, which is an odd resolution. Since HD CRTs cheaped out and weren't multisync everything has to be scaled to that resolution.

>>9065247
From what I understand, when you feed it 480p, they indeed output 540p, but they letterbox it and overscan 30 lines top and bottom, so functionally it's 480p.

>>9065256
Right but the internal scaler is bad at doing that so it introduces lag. If you use an external scaler you can skip all that.

>>9065370
Well, I don't have that TV anymore so it's a moot point, though I don't recall getting noticeable lag with 480p, and I played Melee pretty autistically (wavedashing, L-canceling, etc).

>>9064621
Possibly the gayest thing posted on this board ever.

>>9064573
>Just a matter of time. Of course one day you'll have identical results with strobing (or even emulated rolling scan) and high response rate flat panels.
You'll be waiting for a long time then since 99% of the panels look like this at 60hz

>>9064527
>>9065464
OLEDs + BFI do have perfect motion clarity, though there is a hit to brightness and slightly higher latency at 120hz
>>9064987
>>9065458
>nooooo you can't have the benefits of crts AND shaders!!!
You know that even in the CRT days, there were filters and shaders for emulators, right?

>>9064987
>>9065458
Why wouldn't you want to use a 240p CRT and have the quality of RGB with the effects of composite (for the games that used them)?

>>9062842
Can anyone help me find a model number for the remote on a Toshiba CE27C15? I couldn’t find it in the manual. There seems to be very little information on this set.

>>9065506
Because that's fucking gay

>>9065616
Sounds like sour grapes to me.

>>9065506
I doubt the faked composite over RGB would look better than the actual composite though. Most late era CRTs have really good comb filters.

>>9064379
Holy sex. Great find anon

>>9064379
u are a winrar

>>9064379
super jealous. would love to have one for hd media, especially ps3/360 era games

>>9064731
Run into any tearing with that setup? Think I'm gonna have to go Windows and Nvidia eventually.

>>9065657
It looks like RGB with composite dithering, depends on the filter how strong the effect is or what it affects, or if you want color bleeding, etc.
The point is to be able to play games that utilise composites effects while using RGB, like when you have your CRT TV hooked up to your PC.

>>9064731
Why are you using Nvidia Control Panel now instead of CRU? Mixing them up will cause all kinds of confusion.

Also the top changes won't reflect in the bottom when it's in manual, set up the top first with bottom being automatic, then change to manual if you need to fine tune, but I'd just keep away from the Nvidia Control panel and use CRU all around.

>>9064883
That's better, adjust front/back porch until you're at 262 (524) lines total and 15.6kHz.

Then use any of the methods I told you about in the other thread to switch to the interlaced mode.

>>9065803
Why should it tear? It's no different than a VGA CRT hooked up over VGA.

>>9065473
>OLEDs + BFI do have perfect motion clarity, though there is a hit to brightness and slightly higher latency at 120hz
You can this perfect?

>>9065473
>OLEDs + BFI do have perfect motion clarity
You call this perfect?

>>9065824
>Why should it tear? It's no different than a VGA CRT hooked up over VGA.
Just wondering, as it's supposedly a thing over on Linux. Then again, Nvidia drivers on Linux.

You're that guy who posts the DP transcoder, right? What's your GPU again and did you get 480i to work?

>>9065830
>needs a camera and a measuring setup to be able to tell the difference compared to a CRT

>>9064578
Mine looks better

>>9064528
All the PVMs I've seen in person are one of two types. They're either the 20" ones that look great but also not anything remotely like what games are "supposed" to look like (and also cost $600+ these days so fuck that) or they're some postage stamp of a screen that the guy will play sitting on the floor Indian style like a little kid and proclaim it pristine gaming.

I really don't understand the draw. PVMs made sense a decade ago when it was an inside secret and you could get them for a song from places throwing them away. I'm not going to be "that guy" who says they look bad, because they don't, but at the same time they don't look authentic, which I guess is the thing I prioritize more than crystal clarity.

>>9066318
I think part of the draw was the fact that they usually support RGB inputs, which made them quite desirable, at least for burgers. It could be construed as kind of a way of "maxing out" your consoles' potential.

if i want a black and white signal to go from a pc to a tv with composite in, is display port > vga > scart > component a dumbass method? it's the cheapest way i can think of that won't introduce significant input lag and maintain good quality

>>9066524
why not dp to component direct? I'm sure there's a converter

I miss when crts were a piece of furniture at grandmas house. I love the retro wood furnishings has so much more soul than shitty modern cheap ikea shit plastic garbage furniture.

>>9066582
>>9066582
man that thing is probably going to give you x-ray poisoning

>>9063192
Did a crt rape you, when you were a child?

>>9066582
I really hated that era.
The idea was to make TVs fit in with the surrounding horrible wood furniture of the era. Some even had doors you could slow to hide the TV completely.
I think anyone that unironically types ‘soul’ is an idiot but if you really like the aesthetic then fine. It gets in the way of a TV being a TV.

>>9066723
>slow.
I mean shut.

>>9066723
the idea of a flat panel to begin with was to make it flush with the wall so it would fit in better aestethically, or could be recessed into a wall to hide it completely

>>9065824
>Why are you using Nvidia Control Panel now instead of CRU?
because CRU refuses to work properly.
every time I change the resolution, my pc does not recognize it.
like for example pic related, I changed the resolution to 480i and this is what I got:

>>9066732
This is my settings btw

>>9066771
and this is what I get

>>9066771
NTSC refresh rate is 59.94 due to the color hack, exact definition is 60 * 1000/1001

if it's not syncing right your hblank might be wrong

>>9066816
Doesn't matter. Many real console have more timing difference thanks to using cheap oscillators than the 0.06 Hz difference between 60 and 59.94 Hz.
Anon also already had this TV working with 60Hz 240p.

>>9066732
What did you use to change resolutions?

>>9066771
>>9066790
The vertical timings look okay, I you might have to play with the horizontal ones. Something is wrong with the horizontal timings.

What I recommend you try is using the original 320 timings times two you used when you got 240p working. (Or even just 320 the picture will be stretched but at least well see if it works properly.)

I can't see the timings myself right now, not on my computer but 870 total for horizontal is too much, should be 760 or closer to that. Maybe a typo? Would explain why it can't properly sync horizontally.

>>9065836
Maybe, I don't use Linux with 15kHz outputs.

I use DP to VGA for 15kHz out from modern GPUs, yes.
I've used it on several GPUs, RX 580 and 1070 Ti worked perfectly with 240p and 480i and 2070S works great for 240p (under Windows at least it doesn't do any interlaced modes, Nvidia dropped interlace support with 20 Series).

>>9064441
>how hard could it be?
when you dont know how things work they can appear easy when they are not.

>>9066318
Some people don't play games for muh childhood. Composite was complete shit and RF was even worse

>>9064441
Modern monitors do too. The only point of those monitors was 5:4 without black bars (or improper scaling on 4:3 monitors). But if you don't mind running 4:3 or 5:4 on a 16:9 monitor, there's no reason to get one of those old ones.

>>9066839
>What did you use to change resolutions?
I used CRU
> try is using the original 320 timings times two you used when you got 240p working
320*240 did not work however 480*240 and 640*240 worked with no issues.

>>9066956
There's the problem. Use those same 640 timings on the 480i mode. You can see the total is 755 and not 870 like in >>9066771

Basically take the vertical numbers from >>9066771 and horizontal from >>9066956.
Good luck.

>>9066868
>But if you don't mind running 4:3 or 5:4 on a 16:9 monitor, there's no reason to get one of those old ones.
Except modern 16:9 monitors have dogshit scaling and can't handle anything other than native res and refresh rate anymore, expecting the GPU to do all the work.
Those old LCD's were specifically made to be compatible with old video modes so they would take a lot of weird shit just like a CRT. That is the point of them, had nothing to do with 5:4, they were only 5:4 because 1280x960 is technically not a standard resolution, rather 1280x1024 is. 1600x1200 lcd's were not 5:4 and neither were 1024x768 ones.

nothing prevents from making one with better upscaling, better image quality, faster response time, support for higher refresh rates like 85 or 100hz etc. there is no excuse

>>9066318
>>9066375
>>9066862
PVMs are the CRTs for people who grew up on the sharp emulator look. They don't even blend dithering.

>>9066972
Wrong. Maybe you just have experience with cheap and shit monitors, mine has aspect ratio correction As an option in the menu and very nice upscaling. Much better than even old HP panels that I have which were once sought after for this reason.

>>9066976
PVMs blend dithering fine if you use composite, specially with something that utilizes the effect a lot, like Genesis, specially the early models.
They are generally just sharp, you're not supposed to see the individual scanlines as well as you do on PVMs.

>>9066991
lets see you connect it to an amiga then like the HP can

>>9067018
No problem when I use a scandoubler, it's not like the HP or 99% of those old panels do multiscan to 15kHz.

>>9067056
enjoy your input lag

>>9063020
nah but you will get hd tvs with built in filters though

>>9066582
>>9066723
Its funny how people quickly realized that trying to camouflage technology made it more of a pain in the ass to use. Console TVs are a terrible viewing angle but rather than put a normal TV on a stand they'd rather buy an entire cabinet and look downward. It wasn't just TVs either. If you ever see a really old electrical outlet it's always in the moulding far down on the floor and in a location that is probably behind a couch or something. Its kind of strange how people thought these things were unsightly enough to hide even though it made it harder to use. Though I guess back then you weren't constantly plugging and unplugging stuff as often.

>>9063192
zoomer alert

>>9063308
another zoomer. CRTs were free found a bunch of them in the streets few years ago. you missed out

>>9066318
the only reason PVM have that hype behing them is that consumer CRT TVs in USA didn't have RGB in

>>9063067
Pretty. I have a 31khz monitor and a 15khz TV that both do it.
>MUH P P PERFECT M MOTION
Okay memelords, okay. Not sure if I just never noticed it back in the day or if it's an age thing. Don't get me started on how memey black is on them.

>>9067212
>place monitor in direct sunlight
>w-why is the black not as good as I was told

>>9067202
A ton of them have component though, which is the same thing. It does require a transcoder though.

Just picked up a new old stock rf multi-plug to use with my wii and n64 on my rf only tv, it has a sony plug too but i already have a couple sony rf cables

>>9067067
What lag? Scandoublers don't add lag, they are just analog line doublers. If you mean the monitor, then old LCDs have far worse latency.

Anyways I use a proper Multiscan Microvitech M1438 for everyday use with my main Amiga. I've just used modern ones too for temporary usage.

>>9067202
It's also one of the few ways to get a curved Trinitron with RGB. 99% of component trinitrons are flat screen.

>>9066969
tried that but no luck, I think my pc doesn't let me use interlaced at all, because when I hooked my pc to the crt tv for the first time without changing any resolution, I got the same exact screen as this:>>9066790.
The frustrating thing is that, I got it to work before using Nvidia control panel not CRU.
gonna have to try my luck with Nvidia control panel again.

>>9067590
It definitely supports interlaced if you got it to work once, the problem is somewhere else, probably a oversight that will be pretty obvious once you find it.

>>9067535
bros rf rules. it adds a slight imperfection to the picture that reminds me of film grain

>>9067535
absolutely fucking disgusting

>>9066848
Thought RTX was the cut-off for interlaced, good to know. Do you really have to calculate the modeline and trigger it manually each time? Crazy to think Windows is more of a hassle.

>>9066558
not that i could find. it seems like there are hdmi to component which may or may not be cheaper

Why are you not allowed to criticize CRTs without being called a zoomer?

Yeah, they do what they do well, but they're not sacred cows that are infallible. They're bulky, heavy, and a great many of them lack better inputs than Component.

Why are you not allowed to criticize CRTs without being called a zoomer?

Yeah, they do what they do well, but they're not sacred cows that are infallible. They're bulky, heavy, and a great many of them lack better inputs than Composite.

>>9068130
Is the person calling you a zoomer after you state CRTs are bulky and heavy in the room with us?

>>9068130
I was a poorfag that went through the entire seventh gen still using a crt, it's good for retro but there are definite limits to the technology.

>I cannot taint my eyes with the vile images of non-PVM CRTs

Faggots.

is a pvm 1350 worth 300 usd

>>9068130
>They're bulky,
Highly exaggerated claim/shitpost.
Same footprint as a LCD monitor other than the depth measurement, which is marginally longer and shouldn't make any difference to most set-ups.
>heavy,
Highly exaggerated claim/shitpost.
You're not picking up your CRT and moving it every day. It doesn't take over one person to move a CRT TV of 27" size or smaller. It takes two people to safely move a large LCD monitor the same as it would take to move a large CRT. If you're so weak that you AND a buddy can't handle a 36" CRT together then you should both unironically start going to the gym.
>a great many of them lack better inputs than Composite.
Then don't get those.

>>9063170
>nearly indistinguishable
That's going a bit too far.
However, what they can do is get the spirit of the CRT style to produce something that is vastly better than playing on raw pixels or bilinear filtering. They can get the broad strokes going of variable pixel intensity that adds virtual detail to a CRT image.

>>9063370
You can get very close. Close enough that the size of big LCD displays can be enough to make me consider compromising.

>>9064076
That is among the stupidest things I have ever seen.

>>9068471
what's your beef, friend :0)

>>9068448
are you willing to pay that price for a screen that small?

>>9064379
people here like to shit on HD crts but I like them

>>9068448
I personally don't think so. Excellent consumer CRTs and computer monitors are free or near free so paying $300 for a PVM isn't worth the premium. I realize this is easier said than done but try to see one in person first before you decide.

>>9068448
might as well play on an lcd panel

>>9064578
>you wouldn't get the latency benefits anyway.
wrong. you can have less input lag with emulation nowadays.

>>9068692
this is my current setup i have a jvc 910-su
does 450 tvl and rgb worth the upgrade?

>>9068853
I personally prefer JVCs to Sonys so I don't think it's an upgrade but I'm an oddball that is over the trinitron hype.

>>9068853

>>9068865
Is that a big speaker on the back of the WEGA? How's the sound?

>>9068875
is the original bass that came with the tv
it sounds great but with high pitch sounds it gets distorted maybe because is old

>>9068887
I see. I'm asking because I see a lot of those on FB Marketplace here in Mootxico, and I'm tempted to get one.

>>9068929
i say give it a shot i got mine a month ago for 40 shipped from FB marketplace also from tacoland

>>9068956
I just might. That's a 20" model, yes? I had a 27FS100 years ago that I really liked, but IIRC the red component RCA jack stopped working and colors were wildly off as a result, which forced me to fall back to S-video, which still looked nice, but it still pissed me off regardless since I had an RGB-to-component transcoder that was now useless.

>>9068962
yes is a 21fa210 apart from videogames watching old anime on it is the shit also were did you buy that transcoder?

>>9068032
RTX is the cut-off. The 10 Series is GTX.

No, you set it up once in CRU, RetroArch and GroovyMAME switch automatically.

>>9068972
Oh, I got it on eBay a long-ass time ago. Think it was some generic Chinese-made model, don't have it anymore. It worked well until the aforementioned problem with the component ports surfaced.

>>9068975
how do you cope with not having 480i?

>>9068983
I only use my 15kHz monitor for 240p/288p and I have a VGA CRT for 480p, which I use for deinterlaced 480i also, I've used this setup before Nvidia dropped interlace support.

>>9068986
how do you deinterlace it?

>>9069050
Usually the emulators have build in deinterlacing.

>>9069050
>>9069142
Not really a problem, most of the time you won't even have to deinterlace, often you can just use or you can force 480p or even higher internal render resolution.

>>9068448
No.

>>9062842
>They Won't Last Forever Edition
sure, if you set them on fire

>>9063020
>>9063047
>>9063050
a brit on youtube is developing some that will accept PCBs and expansion modules for inputs, it will sooon be on kickstarter.
i can't find it back but he's from the amiga community.

>>9068975
Oh, 2000 is RTX too, I completely forgot. Thanks. One last question, what's it like to throw programs to the CRT display on Windows, any hurdles? For example, I need Model 2 Emulator and that's standalone, no RA to hold my hand.

Is a Pelican PL-940 a good video switcher? I need something new for s-video after noticing that my current cheapo one adds some weird patterns to the video signal.

>>9069546
I had that exact same switcher once. After a few years, some of the video ports stopped working unless I fiddled with the connections, usually by pushing down on the cable connectors in some way.

>>9067662
So after countless tries, I still didn't manage to get 480i.
Does using DP to VGA, make a difference? will it
be easier to get interlaced?
if not can I output to 480p, 576p or 360p?
anything beside 240p?

>>9069519
It just works as a standard monitor, like any multimonitor setup.

>>9069554
You already had 480i working, so it can't be a adapter or driver limitation, don't think a DP adapter would change anything.

You can do 240p 60Hz or 288p 50Hz as far progressive modes go, it's a limitation of the TV.

>>9069553
Sounds like some of the sockets got loose on it or something. You didn't notice any picture problems with it though did you? I see those pelican swtiches recommended a lot and they seem good for the price.

>>9069370
Post some sort of link. At the moment sounds doubtful.

>>9064379
Honestly I might be able to go for that if I had some furniture for it...

>>9069671
not a CRT but it's exactly what I was talking about with the modern LCD with good multisync and scaling capability, and it's styled after a classic amiga monitor with room for an all-in-one system amiga build with modern replacement parts

see, that wasn't so hard was it?

https://www.youtube.com/c/stephenjonesvrexprerience/search?query=monitor

>>9069828
>Argument is about crts
>It's a LCD
>Hurr want that hard uhuh
Retard

>>9069828
>>9069847
put a MEMS in there and you literally have a new CRT

How do I fix this issue with a 30 inch trinitron where the screen is slightly off center? This appeared on local Craigslist…

Some dude is selling this one for $35, what do you guys think about it? Is it good? I mainly want it to play 6th gen stuffs, maybe even the Wii and 360 if I'm feeling adventurous
1/3

>>9070014
Has component
2/3

>>9070014
>>9070018
And controller
3/3

>>9070014
6th gen was already widescreen but it seems okay

I have a coax only display whats the best way to plug composite into it without it looking like shit

>>9070020
it's called a remote

>>9070291
Remote controller

>>9070304
a remote control maybe, if you like to call cars automobiles too
everyone just calls it a remote

>>9069941
Somebody answer this please, not trying to drive an hour and a half for something that will take hours and hours to fix or is unfixable

>>9070458
Couldn't tell you for sure but I'm guessing it's just a bad setting on the digital box it's using

>>9070458
Nobody can answer it for sure. It's possible it's just a service mode setting but these things are around 20 years old at minimum now so who knows what could be going on? It's unlikely it's not fixable but remember that these flat glass CRTs can have shitty geometry even under the best conditions.

>>9070068
>composite
>without it looking shit
I think I spot a flaw in your plan.
But in all seriousness, a VCR is your best composite to RF converter.

>>9070458
I suspect it's easily fixable in the service menu, but there's no way to know for sure. I would go for it, personally.

>>9062842
let's bring back SEDs

>>9070307
It's Sony, so it's a remote commander actually.

It's okay, we won't need them much longer. Once we have OLED/MLED panels that can push high sustained nit brightness while also being able to strobe at 120hz+, then CRT's as near replaced. OLED meets or exceeds just about everything a CRT provides -except- for motion clarity, and we just need strobing at a high enough hz to fix that. The actual pixel response times on OLED are already instant

I like CRTs, but no need to fret anons, we won't need them a decade from now

>>9070657
Sweet, it’s free, I’m goin this weekend

how fixed are the scan rates of tvs? could you have an NTSC tv output 240p at 64Hz with all 240 scan lines visible? really, the question comes down to how small a VBI can be.

>>9063338
tubes have certain phosphor persistence values, though. could you really use a high dot pitch tv as a monitor?

>>9070018
which country do you live in with 220V power? seems like a fine SD set. not too expensive, right around the upper bounds of what i would pay as long as it's in good, working order. i don't think this set does progressive scan but that means it wouldn't have input lag. it does have 16:9 enhancement, whatever that means.

>>9070682
clicker

will this aliexpress cable do for discharge

>>9070068
Most old VCRs will convert composite into RF. Pelican made a switcher that will convert to RF as well that you can probably find for cheap. In either case when you're using RF you should get some coax to RCA adapters so you aren't unscrewing shit constantly, and get some thick ass shielded cable for it.

>>9070672

are SED the OLED equivalent of CRTs?

>>9066595
kek

>>9067773
I realized this too recently while playing sega, it feels like you’re in the 90s with rf.

>>9067773
I guess, composite does that too, except the audio isn't dogshit

Zenith ZVM-123-A acquired locally for free, saved from landfill. 1981 monochrome green monitor with video input. connected to snes with s-video breakout cable. very clean and bright picture. has nice geometry controls, just no h. position. has a switch in the back that says 40-80 characters, effectively changes the pixel aspect ratio from square to whatever ntsc is usually. at the wider setting it extends past the left side a little, pic related is square pixels

no speakers, so i used a record player with aux in. haven't tried 480i yet.

>>9071761
What does Dr. Mario look like on this?

being a computer monitor, the phosphors are pretty long persistence. visible in pic related, things on dark backgrounds leave ghost trail afterimages.

>>9071771
god damn, that ghosting is crazy, to be expected

>>9071771
kino

more afterimages. pictures don't really do the sharpness justice.

>>9071770
i don't have a copy of dr. mario for any system. i have a gameboy player but no gb games, only color and gba. i'll test out kirby's dream collection tomorrow, which has dream land 1 and 2 (at 480i, but i have a hacked memory card that would let me play gb games at 240p if i had any). this monitor seems best suited for monochrome games that don't have much fast movement, text adventure or puzzle.

>>9071776
playing a shmup with space backgrounds, you can fly in a circle around the screen and connect both ends of the afterimage

>>9071789
You might want to turn the contrast down a little, you could burn it in

>>9071761
>>9071769
>>9071771
>>9071785
Nice one, anon. I unironically want one like this. I bet it'd be really nice with OG Game Boy games.

>>9071789
Play Street Fighter and do E. Honda's hundred hand slap.

>>9071803
i'll post that tomorrow

>>9071794
the contrast isn't up all the way. i'll play with it a little more, but i think it is the phosphors. i could check the tube itself for a model.

>>9071896
no, nothing wrong with it, I'm just saying that these tubes burn in a lot quicker

>>9071907
oh. alright. good looking out

anyone know of a good tiny VGA monitor? im looking for something 10 inches diagonal / 8 inches across or preferably less.

>>9071761
>>9071769
>>9071771
>>9071785
Careful when using them like this, it's very easy to burn in when using them for general usage.

>>9071785
>this monitor seems best suited for monochrome games that don't have much fast movement, text adventure or puzzle.
They are made to be used for text based computer usage. So yeah.

>>9072050
Never seen a VGA CRT that small that wasn't monochrome. Think the smallest color ones were 13". I could be wrong, though.

>>9072182
Most small ones were point of sale and monochrome, but color ones definitely exist.
I don't see a reason to use that over just a decent 13" one though.

>>9072182
Most small ones were point of sale and monochrome, but color ones definitely exist.
I don't see a reason to use that over just a decent 13" one though.

>>9063338
like there aren't 2000 dollar top of the line TV's now

>>9062842
where the FUCK do i buy a CRT? is it possible to get a flat screen that is also CRT so it fits better? i just want my old playstation to not look like ass

>>9063295
your defeatist attitude is not an industry expert

>>9072253
where are you
most people use facebook marketplace or older family members

>>9072253
>is it possible to get a flat screen that is also CRT so it fits better?
That's pretty much what SED TVs would've been, but it never happened.

>>9072263
Those would've been exactly the same as shitty HDCRT's

>>9072260
germany, i dont know exactly what to search to get what i am looking for
CRT on ebay returns monitors and CRT tv returns those really really old analog tvs without a video audio jack

>>9072273
You want either a Loewe or B&O, especially if you want less depth
seriously though, classifieds and private sellers are your friend
Seeing as you're in germany, most stuff should be RGB Scart

>>9072273
I think the term in germany is rohre
be aware in europe in general people have been a lot more diligent about sending their old electronics to recycling so CRT's are more rare in general

>>9072273
röhrenfernseher works fine for me on ebay kleinanzeigen

>>9072304
>be aware in europe in general people have been a lot more diligent about sending their old electronics to recycling so CRT's are more rare in general
What are you talking about? It's US where CRTs cost a premium and are hard to fine, in Europe it's the other way around, getting rid of electronics to recycler costs YOU money, so most people just give things away for free, hence why there's a surplus of old electronics and prices are low or free.

>>9072342
Yep

>>9064396
>the only two parts that actually require a complex process are the tube itself and the phosphor screen, the difficulty of restarting production is vastly overrated

There were crt graveyards at most manufactures with tubes that had defects in production and sony had been making tubes for 60 years. You're saying the hardest, most complex, nearly dead part of the production is going to be kicked up again. The only reason it worked was economies of scale. There's lot of cool things going on in the world with 3d printing and manipulating different materials at a hobby level but creating glass tubes of irregular thickness and shape, embedding phosphor screens, and deflectors in them to a precision where there are no defects when looking at them from 1 inch away it not going to happen again unless people are willing to pay 5x-10x above what tvs MSRP for back in the day ($1000+).

>>9072629
TV's did not cost 1000 dollars
sure it'll be more expensive but it's not impossible at all. I'm sure many of the actual manufacturing machines are still out there too so you wouldn't even need to build those from scratch either unless, again, stupidity. stupidity is the only thing keeping this from happening.

And that is once again ignoring MEMS technology which could do the same thing without vacuum tubes and giant magnets.

What do CRTs even offer other than 0 latency? genuine question.

>>9072643
perfect motion, specially for 60hz
pixels melting together, thanks to CRTs not using pixels
can scale any resolution without artifacts

plus as you said, zero added latency

>>9072650
which of these problems couldn't eventually be solved by better LCD technology? none of them?

>>9072657
OLED with post-processing already can match it very closely, at least good enough for most people I guess
eventually it would be able to match it almost perfectly, with strobing or emulated rolling scan and if you use the proper filters, outside of latency of course, digital panels will always have a extra latency above the output itself, while CRTs work basically at the speed of electronics

>>9072667
yeah that's the biggest shame: the latency

>>9072679
not really, it will never be zero but it's already at a level where it's less than 1/4th of a frame of latency
the thing it still has to catch up with is motion, for most people it will be more than fine and even hard to tell with the naked eye but on a technical level, it's not there yet

>>9072182
I picked one up that was a late 80s model and about 9 inches viewable about a year ago but it had some serious brightness control issues and was really picky about accepting now-standard VGA signals. I wanted to work on it but unfortunately it ended up getting stuck in a flooded basement so I tossed it

>>9072667
I recently learned that BFI adds a frame of lag... broke my heart, since motion clarity is so much better (not CRT-like, mind you, but good enough). I would take that frame of lag over shit motion clarity everyday though.

>>9072638
>TV's did not cost 1000 dollars
They absolutely could. CRTs were never cheap in the way LCDs are today. Even a shitty little 13" that's likely composite only was $150. And this is in the 90s, after the technology had been on the market for 40ish years.

>>9072657
digital displays will always have latency, even the later CRT tv's added digital circuitry and with it, lag.

one of the advantages of LCD's is pixel perfect sharpness, but this only works at 100% resolution and at no other resolutions, digital upscaling will alwyas look blurry compared to a CRT which might be softer to begin with, but performs no scaling.
that slight softness does not look like blur, but just has a more analogue look compared to perfect sharpness
in short, with a CRT all resolutions look good, with LCD only native resolution looks good

perfect motion will never happen because of how LCD's work, look at slow-motion footage of a CRT vs slow motion footage of an LCD and you'll understand why

a good CRT will also have perfect black levels in a dark room, OLED and *VA panels claim to do the same thing, but they kinda cheat, and you get a ton of "black smearing" and they tend to eat the detail away from the darkness that a CRT won't

Oculus had to remove the "perfect" black from their OLED's to reduce the smearing

the light intensity response is all over the place with LCD, something bright looks truly bright, and something dark looks truly dark, whereas LCD tends to have grey darks, and flat highlights. there's no need for "HDR" with a CRT because it already has that effect.

This is why games made after LCD's became normal are adjusted to be much brighter and have bloom, and games made before are darker and more contrasted. dark graphics look murky on LCD, and you need bloom to compensate for poor highlights, and too much contrast eats away dark details.

With LCD you also tend to trade color accuracy for response time, so a fast panel might have bad colors, and a panel with good colors might have bad response time. CRT phospors just have bright saturated colors out of the box. Again to compensate games tend to increase the saturation.

But all this brightness, bloom, and saturation ends up looking very unnatural.

>>9072696
Oh they could, if you bought some huge designer monstrosity, the same is true today. You think high end LCD's are cheap? Go to a store one day kid.

>>9072707
You can get an LCD larger than the biggest CRT for like $200. "High end" LCDs are a scam. You may as well go OLED if you're going to pay $1000 for one.

>>9072719
>You can get an LCD larger than the biggest CRT for like $200
yeah if you're fine with a 768 pixel TN panel

>>9072725
The hell are you talking about?
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung-43-class-7-series-led-4k-uhd-smart-tizen-tv/6401740.p?skuId=6401740

VR will revive the CRT industry.

Mini CRTs for each eye. Start training those neck muscles early

>>9072738
that's 300 not 200

>>9072759
And that's 4K. And after only a cursory glance. I could keep searching but you damn well know there are 1080p panels for about $200. You damn well know the tech is cheaper than CRTs ever were so why are you bitching?

>>9072768
yeah for black friday I bought a 4k 50 inch for like $200 and that woulda cost like a thousand and needed 4 people to carry it inside (if it'd even fit through the door after I took it off the hinges)

>>9072776
Yup, you can find $1000 TVs today but they're all enormous 80" monsters. There's also a lot of consistency today that didn't exist before. The affordable CRTs were all composite or even just RF. Once you even got to S-Video capable ones the cost jumped pretty noticeably.

>>9072638
32 inch trinitron:
>The other thing you need besides a sturdy table is a sturdy checkbook. The starting price of the 32XBR series is $2,700 for the KV-XBR3210. Realizing this, Sony arranged financing through many of its dealers, just like buying a car.
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl-xpm-1989-11-12-8902090385-story.html

32 inch zenith:
>Zenith Corporation, the only remaining American manufacturer of television sets, offers a remedy in the form of its 31-inch Model ZB3193H ($2,795), which incorporates the patented Waveguide speaker system developed by the Bose Corporation. In this arrangement, the speakers activate the air in a labyrinthine passage, which is folded on itself so as to curl a long duct into a small space.
https://www.justanswer.com/tv-repair/2b42x-original-cost-36-zenith-tv-1989-model.html

$3k in 1990 is ~$7K today.

Of course that's top of the line and size but that's what enthusiasts would want when reviving CRTs. CRTs were modern marvels of their time.

Most home computer monitors of the day did run $250-500 so that's more reasonable. Something like an amiga would have composite and RGB inputs but they were 14 inch screens with cost cutting quality whenever possible.

>>9072798
you are a retard

>>9062842
They don't need to last forever, they only need to outlast me.

>>9072687
It was probably just VGA, not SVGA or better. So basically 31kHz only, 480p 60Hz, 400p 70Hz, etc.

>>9072807
I accept your concession.

>>9072807
Guy posts receipts and you cry about it.

>>9072918
Yeah it took "safe mode" 640x480 from a Pi but I couldn't really feed it anything else, even trying to manually input what "safe mode" basically does wouldn't quite do it

Why are PVMs and RGB modding so popular when they don't blend dithering? Games weren't meant to look that sharp.

>>9073224
The popularity has decreased recently since more people realized exactly that. It's most a dickwaving thing for retards who have little sense, like people just think "it's the best" so they get it, they don't think or realize it might not be the best for what they want to use it though. Sensible people use nice low TVL monitors or consumer TVs and not PVMs.
Alternatively there's at least some people who use PVMs or other high TVL monitors over RGB for emulation, but with composite dithering filters.

>>9072998
he's comitting ad nauseam, not worth responding to
you are also a retard

>>9073224
because composite ntsc is blurry as fuck

>>9073224
I don't give a fuck what things were meant to look like. I give a fuck what I think they should look like.

>>9073234
>The popularity has decreased recently since more people realized exactly that.
Maybe on contrarian communities like /vr/. PVMs and other high-end monitors are more popular than ever. They've been so for like the past decade.
I think it's actually the opposite: they're so popular and pricey now that people are extolling the benefits of cheap TVs as a cope. Fox and the grapes, you know?

>>9073053
the colors aren't 24-bit either for VGA. that might have been it.

>>9073647
>he's comitting ad nauseam
What are you talking about?

>>9073234
One benefit of PVMs is that they're boxy and generally built tough so you can turn them on their side easily. Doing that with a consumer set for shmups isn't really a good idea.

>>9073659
Agreed. They should look like shit.

>>9073662
>they're so popular and pricey now that people are extolling the benefits of cheap TVs as a cope. Fox and the grapes, you know?
This isn't what's happening though. It's not hard to see a PVM first hand. They're not actually rare and every convention these days has a bunch of them. It's actually easier to find a PVM than it is a popular consumer set like a D-Series because there's a more robust market for them. I've been in front of at least a dozen PVMs but have yet to see a KV-XXFV310 in person.

What's more likely happening is people buy into the hype and jump into a PVM just by default without actually looking at things in person. And if you spend $600 on something you're going to convince yourself it's the best choice. Remember that people got into PVMs only after retro Youtubers started touting them. The issue isn't whether they're "good" but whether they're A) the "best" way to play and B) worth the premium. Saying it's sour grapes because people can't afford them is presumptuous. It'd be like saying people who think Earthbound isn't that great are just sour that they can't afford the $2000 price tag on Ebay.

>>9073740
>They're not actually rare and every convention these days has a bunch of them. It's actually easier to find a PVM than it is a popular consumer set like a D-Series because there's a more robust market for them. I've been in front of at least a dozen PVMs but have yet to see a KV-XXFV310 in person.
I didn't say they were rare, so this is just a pointless ramble.
>Remember that people got into PVMs only after retro Youtubers started touting them.
Retro Youtubers helped their increased popularity but that applies to CRTs as a whole. Even when CRTs were more fringe, there's been interest in PVMs. The whole "well what actually happened" anecdote trading will convince nobody, so here's an old thread about them. Even in 2010, people were talking about their reputation for retrogaming. And that's not to imply that PVMs were the only business monitor people were interested in, either.
>The issue isn't whether they're "good" but whether they're A) the "best" way to play and B) worth the premium.
A) is just straight up true, but I agree that B) is a different matter. It's not worth paying hundreds for, but that's my point: people are sour grapes because they can't get them for cheap anymore (unless they get lucky).
>It'd be like saying people who think Earthbound isn't that great are just sour that they can't afford the $2000 price tag on Ebay.
You can play Earthbound for free so paying any amount of money for it is stupid, yes. You're comparing software to hardware, dude.

>>9073792
I don't think I'd equate PVMs with CRTs in general. It was pretty obvious that CRTs had their virtues if only because some games didn't work right on anything else. When you can't play Duck Hunt on your new LCD people are going to notice. The PVM rabbit hole is a different beast.

>A) is just straight up true
Again, how presumptuous. Best by what standard? Arcade cabinets didn't have PVMs inside them. They didn't even have trinitrons. This is the problem people have with the PVM crowd in a nutshell. They make this bold statements without considering context. Unless you're rocking a NEC XM29 or something a PVM is going to be tiny compared to many consumer options. Does that not factor in? People aren't salty about not having a PVM, they're just tired of the masturbatory blind assertions and refusal to engage in any nuance. People want to talk about the virtues of different TVs and someone comes in and acts like it's all some mathematical formula. "800 TVL > 500 TVL." Then when they get called on their bullshit they pretend it's sour grapes from poorfags.

>>9073840
>I don't think I'd equate PVMs with CRTs in general. It was pretty obvious that CRTs had their virtues if only because some games didn't work right on anything else. When you can't play Duck Hunt on your new LCD people are going to notice. The PVM rabbit hole is a different beast.
I wouldn't equate them but they're tied together, considering that communities dedicated to preserving and maintaining CRTs were also promoting business monitors.
>Best by what standard?
Sharper image, better color accuracy, can be safely tilted for TATE, ability to take all sorts of inputs, so you can use composite to get that blended dithering if you want to. Do I really have to explain this to you? Do you think companies produced these expensive as hell monitors for shits and giggles?
>Arcade cabinets didn't have PVMs inside them. They didn't even have trinitrons.
Why did the Game Boy use a shitty LCD screen even though there were better options available? Because it was cheaper, arcades not using them doesn't mean much when there's the financial aspect to consider (not to mention Sony held a patent on Trinitron technology).
>Unless you're rocking a NEC XM29 or something a PVM is going to be tiny compared to many consumer options. Does that not factor in?
I agree the small size of a PVM can be an issue, in that regard it is a trade off between screen size and picture quality.
>People aren't salty about not having a PVM, they're just tired of the masturbatory blind assertions and refusal to engage in any nuance. People want to talk about the virtues of different TVs and someone comes in and acts like it's all some mathematical formula. "800 TVL > 500 TVL." Then when they get called on their bullshit they pretend it's sour grapes from poorfags.
Don't play the victim, you started this by calling PVM owners retards and that sensible people use consumer TVs. Talk shit get hit.

>>9073914
>Do you think companies produced these expensive as hell monitors for shits and giggles?
They produced them for broadcasters and actual television production, not retards on /vr/ playing Super Metroid. That's the part you're not getting. They're not meant for the purpose you're using them for so don't fit the niche. It's not "better" for that exact reason.

>>9073914
>Talk shit get hit.
You know you actually have to be able to hit someone to say that, right?

>>9073914
Sensible people do use consumer TVs. You take offense for that because you spent $600 for emulator window blinds.

I love eye burning PC crt scanlines and this is only 480p wish i could do 240p

Scan lines as big as blank lines as it should be

>>9073224

Because of idiots like: https://youtu.be/d7jREjvA65Q

who tell all you brainlets you can't truly enjoy retro vidya without spending $2k....because all of us enjoyed our chicken nuggets while playing on a $10,000 monitor back in the 90's.

>>9074075
Yuck. I definitely prefer when the scanline effect is subtle to the point where you don't really notice it's there. The phosphors should look like they're woven into a complete image, not just a uniform bright line straight across.

>>9073936
I'm not "getting it" because that anon (or you) is talking out their ass about other things. Deep down you all know that "what they're meant for" doesn't matter, all that matters is their actual qualities.
>>9073941
I mean hey, anon sure is crying like I just hit him.
>>9073948
>Sensible people do use consumer TVs. You take offense for that because you spent $600 for emulator window blinds.
This is why people say its just sour grapes from poorfags. Broadcast monitors look (and function) very different from emulators on LCDs. Better contrast and black levels, no latency, a real scanline effect, etc. You can't actually prove anything I say wrong so you're imagining me as some bandwagoning rich idiot to protect your ego.
>>9074120
I too play games with my eyes glued to the screen

>>9074171
>a real scanline effect
This is a bad thing. You realize that 240p is a workaround right? They used it for video games to avoid flicker with 480i and on most televisions you couldn't really tell the difference since the phosphor glow tended to obscure the fact that half the field wasn't being scanned. You weren't actually meant to see the scanline effect. If ordinary TV sets looked like PVMs when they tried using 240p and they got thick black lines then they probably would have just stuck with 480i and dealt with the flicker. The scanline effect is a side effect, not a feature. If you look at the screenshots on the back of game boxes they don't have an intense scanline effect going on. Play with your thick scanlines if you like them. But they are categorically not "correct."

>>9074067
what's the limiting factor?

>>9074208
Pixel artists designed their games to take advantage of the scanline effect. One of them even compared it to the GBA, and that's definitely a screen you can notice the side-effects of. Not to mention, the "thick black line" look you're talking about comes from Trinitron tech, which was the kind of consumer TV Nintendo did use to test their games, so clearly it didn't bother them that much. PVMs do have black lines a tad more prominent than their consumer counterparts but calling them "emulator window blinds" is just poorfag cope.

Guys, pls. I've got all this stuff, but no CRT to play it on. Problem is, some is NTSC and some is PAL. Are there any monitors/TVs that can display both? Preferably with component input as well?

Guys, pls. I've got all this stuff, but no CRT to play it on. Problem is, some is NTSC and some is PAL. Are there any monitors/TVs that can display both? Preferably with component input as well?

Is it worth paying tens or even hundreds of dollars for a good PC CRT? Most advice nowadays on getting one (without paying out the ass) amounts to "wait several months and hope you get lucky"

>>9074307
In my experience the "lol just pick up a CRT on the road" thing doesn't apply to PC CRTs, which makes sense since they weren't as common as TVs. I don't know about hundreds (unless it's really fucking good) but $70-$120 seems like a reasonable amount.

>>9074301
pretty much all PAL CRT's from the 90's will play both
most silver sets will have component so good luck hunting one down

>>9074313
So PAL format and silver in color? There is a place down the street that is gonna be taking old electronics soon. Maybe I will go down, hang out and see what I can find, if they'll let me.

>>9074342
yep, look at the back for it to say 50-60hz
also a SCART connection is more common in europe if you're there
you also won't find PAL capable sets in America I don't think

>>9074290
If you want a video game to look like a video game you get as close to an arcade monitor as possible. That is the platonic ideal since that's what they were viewed on. PVM is a meme.

>>9073740
>I've been in front of at least a dozen PVMs but have yet to see a KV-XXFV310 in person.
No fucking shit. There are literally hundreds of different PVM models, and only 3 FV310 models.

>>9074353
no

>>9074361
Cope.

>>9074383
I have no need to cope

>>9074390
Then why are you coping?

>>9074353
I wonder if in 10 years this board will have people arguing that Minecraft should be played on shitty phone because that's how most people "back then" played it.
But anyway...so a shadow mask CRT with RGB? Sure. You know what CRT model can do that? :^)

>>9074394
telling people their gatekeeping opinions are wrong isn't cope
especially when you have access to said arcade monitor

>>9074290
i think your picture there is talking about subpixels
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subpixel_rendering

>>9074312
At this point I'm indecisive on getting a cheap 17" or spending more than double on a higher-end Viewsonic. I don't know if the higher quality is worth the money.

>>9073669
what are you talking about? VGA is limited by your DAC in terms of colors, I had a 10-bit DAC in my video card, that's 30-bit color not just 24-bit

>>9073662
Considering the prices have actually gone down here, I'd say the other way around. Sure VGA displays have risen in price.
At least in Europe.

>I think it's actually the opposite: they're so popular and pricey now that people are extolling the benefits of cheap TVs as a cope. Fox and the grapes, you know?
Did you buy a overpriced PVM?

When almost all consumer sets accept RGB and have a better picture in the end while being bigger, PVMs offer no benefit outside of things like >>9073717.

>>9073792
>A) is just straight up true
How? PVMs look like ass, they are far from the best way to play 240p content.

>Do you think companies produced these expensive as hell monitors for shits and giggles?
It's made for production, not consumption.

>>9074171
>a real scanline effect
>>9074290
>Pixel artists designed their games to take advantage of the scanline effect.

This is blatantly false any only someone looking to sell PVMs would say something this dumb.
The picture of your post is literally talking about melting graphics together that lower TVL sets do, not PVMs. I have no idea if you're just dumb or being dumb on purpose.

>>9074395
It's not about "how most people played it", it's about how it objectively looks the best.

You'd be pretty dumb to think effects' like the flames weren't designed for lower TVL CRTs in pic related. Literally what the picture in >>9074290 talked about.

>>9074814
The more money I spend, the better it looks
You're just a poorfag coping

>>9074252
Anons small brain

>>9073224
>RGB modding so popular when they don't blend dithering?
RGB modding has nothing to do with it, the sharpness of the tube has
Composite dithering is something else

>genuinely been considering the crt meme lately knowing they're probably abundant in my area
>crippling social anxiety neet life preventing it though
fuck

>>9074827
>social anxiety
>private seller
do you sperg out when buying groceries?

>>9074829
sorta yeah

Reject scanlines embrace vectrex

>>9074838
you don't know what scanline means when vectrex is literally just a scanline

>>9074838
>>9074841
Yep, literally perfect example of this zoomer shithole.

>>9074846
KYS -oomer faggot

>>9074847
Cope harder

>>9074841
That's the result of PVM brainwashing
Retards think the black lines are the scanlines and have no idea what the term actually means

>>9074848
>LE ZOOMER
>LE COPE
go back from where you came from you shitfuck

>>9074850
Nah faggot

Anyone got close-up pics of an NES game on a CRT with the built-in composite output i.e. no RGB mod? I recall it looking pretty different compared to, say, running a NES game on an emulator on the Wii, and not just because of the colors. I can't seem to find good close-up pics, though.

>>9074790
i mean the original VGA standard only supported up to 256 simultaneous colors, which were 18-bit. whether that has any bearing on what a VGA-standard monitor is capable of displaying, i don't know

>>9074863
The monitor doesn't care when it comes to color, it can show more than the original VGA standard
CRTs never had a actual limit when it came to color, that was all on the DAC side

>>9074865
i see. cool.

>>9074067
240p is doable, though there's drawbacks. You can either fake it by outputting 480p and slapping a simple scanline filter on top, or create a custom 240p@120Hz modeline to get true 240p, but unless you add BFI, it'll result in frame doubling and hence shit motion. Both methods end up looking pretty much the same, with really thick scanlines and half the brightness unless you compensate for it somehow. >>9064174 is a good example, achieved with 480p+scanlines.

>>9074868
At that point I'd rather run a higher resolution with 1:1 integer scaling and use a nice CRT filter

>>9074868
does frame doubling really make motion clarity worse on a crt? 60Hz looks a little flickery on some monitors

>>9074869
You could do that, but I can foresee some issues. CRT shaders are primarily made to take work with LCDs' subpixel structure to create a somewhat convincing mask, which would be redundant and may possibly even result in unwanted artifacts on a PC CRT since it already uses a mask. You could disable the mask emulation, of course, but I'm not sure the end result would be all that accurate, but I've never tried it beyond something simple like 50% scanlines at 1200p, so I dunno.
>>9074883
Yes, motion is no longer silky smooth like it ought to be. I found it terrible last time I tried it.

>>9074883
Of course, it's obvious and very noticeable
I'd say it makes thing unplayable when you're running double the refresh, it's still bearable if it's slightly lower than refresh

>>9074890
There's shaders specifically made for CRTs, anon
There's dozens already that come with default with RA for example

You want to simulate a consumer CRT anyways, so it's okay if it emulates mask too when you're running at 1440p 60Hz, you won't notice your own CRTs mask at that point anyways

>>9074893
>consumer CRT
CRT TV*

>>9074814
I think it looks best on an ultra huge flatscreen. No filters.
Lookin sharp.

>>9074910
Absolutely based, PVM fags BTFO.

>>9074893
>There's shaders specifically made for CRTs, anon
I'm aware, I used to use them, primarily the interlacing+tvout-tweaks combo with a 480p super resolution.
>You want to simulate a consumer CRT anyways, so it's okay if it emulates mask too when you're running at 1440p 60Hz, you won't notice your own CRTs mask at that point anyways
Unfortunately I can no longer test this out, but again, I cannot see this faring anywhere near as well on a PC CRT as on an LCD, the intended display type for this. I repeat, mask emulation is done by specifically addressing LCD subpixels in very specific patterns, something which you cannot do with CRT phosphors. You may end up using several color phosphors to draw bigger emulated phosphors, depending on the monitor's dot pitch as well as the TVL and mask type you're trying to emulate.

Again, though, I'm just presenting a potential pitfall of the endeavor. I'd be interested to see how it actually works in practice. If it actually looks alright despite my misgivings, I'm willing to eat my words.

>>9074890
>>9074892
ok, i just tested 60 vs 120Hz on a crt monitor and the difference really was noticeable on fast 60Hz motion. y'all were right. there wasn't any blur at 60 but there was at 120.

>>9074916
>cannot see this faring anywhere near as well on a PC CRT as on an LCD
You're right, it's going to be better

>an LCD, the intended display type for this.
As said, there's literally shader made for CRTs

>You may end up using several color phosphors to draw bigger emulated phosphors
That is the point, yes
You're emulating a low TVL screen on a high TVL one but retaining the CRT benefits

Imagine emulating a GameBoy LCD on a LCD that's 6x more pixel dense if that helps you but now with CRTs instead

It's quite common and talked about even in these threads

>>9074910
Retarded faggot.

>>9074795
In America, many consumer TVs need to be modded for RGB, this was a big factor behind the initial popularity behind broadcast monitors (as well as consumer Trinitrons).
>>9074804
>>9074814
All CRTs "melt the graphics away" at a reasonable viewing distance, since the image will always look softer compared to any digital display. You can see that in even the BVM 1000. People keep posting these super zoomed in comparisons (that're using different video signals to boot, as if broadcast monitors couldn't use lower quality cables for a softer image if needed) because you know that's pretty much the only time low quality set ups can be claimed to look better. Though when that close, it's just arguing over beaded figurine vs window blinds.
A Capcom game being used to argue in favor of low-end TVLs is funny, since they frequently ported games to PCs, which had sharper monitors than consumer TVs (though not BVM tier). I'm sure people back then thought the PC versions were inferior because they looked too sharp :^)
>>9074823
You do know that until only a few years ago, broadcast monitors were generally cheap because interest in CRTs weren't as huge, right? Again, this is why you get accused of sour grapes.
>>9074849
You too, emulator "scanline" filters have been around since the early 2000s. While interest in broadcast monitors goes back longer than most people here think, it's not that old.

>>9075193
Who the fuck buys a 14 inch CRT to play 3 meters away? Nobody, you're going to be a meter away the most at that size and if you bought a PVM, the sharpness of a high TVL tube is obvious from that distance
Point in case, if you buy a low TVL consumer tube, even nice consumer Trinitron, a 32 inch at 3 meters away is going to look better than a 14 inch PVM from 3 meter or 1 meter either way

Nobody even argued how long this autism goes back to, if anything it was said that it has calmed down compared to the past
Also there's a difference between a slight scanline filter compared to high TVL PVMs, *EVERY* CRT will have scanlines, that's literally how the picture is drawn, if there were no scalines, there would be no picture, the difference is how noticable, from almost none to as thick as the scanline itself the blank lines between scanline's are going to be

>>9075193
>I'm sure people back then thought the PC versions were inferior because they looked too sharp :^)
Example?

>>9075193
>You do know that until only a few years ago, broadcast monitors were generally cheap because interest in CRTs weren't as huge, right? Again, this is why you get accused of sour grapes.
Nope, the prices have been pretty stable for the last decade. I used to flip them for profit back in 2015 already.

>>9075350
>>9075356
>>9075357
You're just a poorfag coping! Sour grapes! Haha

>>9075360
Make an actual argument instead of this obvious samefag shitposting.
When people can buy console hardware for hundreds of bucks, do you really think a PVM is out of reach for people? Sour grapes for something that costs a couple hundred is the dumbest argument ever.

The only one coping here is you. Don't like your PVM anymore`?

>>9075362
Sour grapes :^)

>>9075364
>I'm just shitposting
Got it.

>>9075193
>All CRTs "melt the graphics away" at a reasonable viewing distance, since the image will always look softer compared to any digital display.
This, it would be retarded to get a PVM

>>9075360
>>9075364
Why do PVM fags get so angry when someone points out that 8 bit and 16 bit games look ugly on them?

>>9075193
>All CRTs "melt the graphics away" at a reasonable viewing distance
Open the picture of the post you're replying and zoom out until it looks like the spire would look on a ~21-32" TV and walk 5 feet away from your monitor and then look at it
Does it look the same, really? That's some blatant lies if you claim so

reminder

>All this arguing about TV vs PVM
>Meanwhile the best solution doesn't even cost that much and has the benefits of both
15kHz computer monitor mustard rice

>>9075415
Terms are not defined and examples are not given. It's possible most people who voted CRT just means "muh scanlines".

>>9075632
think it just means*

>>9075357
The irritating thing is that prices for consumer sets have been on the rise. People used to want you to just take it off their hands. Now its like "80s Zenith. $50 firm. I know what I have."

>>9075660
Still free in Europe, even nice black consumer 32 inch Trinitrons. Just plug in RGB over SCART and you're golden.
Then again PVMs don't cost shit here either.

>>9075660
Mexicofag here. CRTs are still pretty cheap, even WEGAs, which makes sense since they're still in use and aren't seen as either completely obsolete trash or LE RETRO GAYMEN DISPLAY I KNOW WHAT I HAVE memes.

>>9075350
Not sure what else to say here, yes it'll look sharper but it'll still look soft enough to prevent the pixellated look, because it's ultimately a CRT and thus doesn't have pixels.
>Nobody even argued how long this autism goes back to,
Someone said the PVM thing was started off by Youtubers, so clearly it was in question.
>Also there's a difference between a slight scanline filter compared to high TVL PVMs, *EVERY* CRT will have scanlines, that's literally how the picture is drawn, if there were no scalines, there would be no picture, the difference is how noticable, from almost none to as thick as the scanline itself the blank lines between scanline's are going to be
Yes? Did I say otherwise? My point was that the misconception around scanlines have nothing to do with any specific monitor, but due to emulators having poor CRT shaders.
>>9075356
Nobody, that's my point. I get PC monitors aren't as sharp as broadcast ones, that was at the person praising specifically low quality TVs.
>>9075357
They've definitely shot up in price over the past couple years, most prices for color PVMs in good condition are in the several hundreds. In the mid-2010s they were typically around $100 or even less than that. Of course depending on where you lived you could get one for dirt cheap or even free. It was only the large stuff like NEC monitors that were would be in the hundreds or even the thousands.
>>9075360
>>9075364
If someone said things I disagreed with, I would simply prove them wrong instead of trolling. Did tricking dumbasses into thinking I'm shitposting heal your bruised ego?
>>9075383
Didn't say they looked the same. I did what you said and at that distance, I see that the PVMs have more vibrant colors and a sharper look while still rounding off the edges. Its only when viewed super closely that they have the window blind effect and you can do the same disingenuous shit with the consumer Trinitrons being praised itt.
>>9075617
Unironically based.

>>9074868
>create a custom 240p@120Hz modeline to get true 240p, but unless you add BFI

Too bad you need a power pc to.even put BFI.

>>9075761
>Nobody, that's my point. I get PC monitors aren't as sharp as broadcast ones, that was at the person praising specifically low quality TVs.
Example of GAMES.

>>9075761
>Didn't say they looked the same. I did what you said and at that distance, I see that the PVMs have more vibrant colors and a sharper look while still rounding off the edges. Its only when viewed super closely that they have the window blind effect and you can do the same disingenuous shit with the consumer Trinitrons being praised itt.
It's not just about the scanlines, it's too sharp in general, there's little to none of the pixels melting together

>>9075798
Software BFI doesn't require beefy PC at all. It just blanks every second frame.

>>9075761
>I get PC monitors aren't as sharp as broadcast ones, that was at the person praising specifically low quality TVs.
They are far sharper, we're talking about .22 pitch here for PC monitors. They are the sharpest CRTs ever made, not BVMs.

>Its only when viewed super closely that they have the window blind effect and you can do the same disingenuous shit with the consumer Trinitrons being praised itt.
You can't compare 450 TVL consumer Trinitron to 800 TVL PVM like that, I own both and the consumer Trinitron barely has noticeable scan+blank lines even when viewed up close. It does not "melt pixels" though.

>>9075761
>I see that the PVMs have more vibrant colors
More accurate colors if calibrated properly, but vibrant? Turn up saturation on any CRT you get the same vibrancy, just less accurate, that's the only difference in the phosphors
Nobody runs these monitors calibrated in the first place, it's not supposed to be super vibrant but saturation meme has been the standard for years now

>>9075761
>They've definitely shot up in price over the past couple years, most prices for color PVMs in good condition are in the several hundreds. In the mid-2010s they were typically around $100 or even less than that.
Not really, sure they were cheaper the further back you go towards 2010 but by 2015 they costed as much as now on places like eBay

>>/vr/thread/S2709701#p2714236
>>/vr/thread/S2598692#p2617485

>>9075415
Why would I give a shit what zoomers think?

>>9074395
Isn't that a dotmask? Dotmasks are unmatched for text but for video games I think it goes slotmask > aperture grille > dotmask.

>>9074814
BVMs are nuts. At that point just use an OLED.

>>9075951
Do you get off to saying retarded shit?

>>9074831
Exposure therapy is a real thing. Might be worth looking into.

>>9075951
That's retarded when you consider that the response time and resolution are superior on the BVM.

>>9075827
>They are far sharper, we're talking about .22 pitch here for PC monitors. They are the sharpest CRTs ever made, not BVMs.
That >>9075761 kept spewing the opposite and was only corrected until now proves that most of this thread has no idea what they're talking about and are just feeling insecure in their setups kek
No matter what the crt display is, 99% of the time it'll do pixel art justice, there was lots of artistic overlap between the PC, console, and arcade markets. The whole "games look best on a consumer TV and weren't meant for anything else" like you see from >>9074814 is just a kneejerk reaction to pvmemes/emulators
People point to Sonic 1 and its waterfalls as outliers and yeah I agree, use a composite signal (or fake it) if you want. But even Sega was converting their Mega Drives into PCs with crisp output. I doubt the response back then was "this isn't blurry enough!". Personally I think it rings more true for early 3D games than pixel art

>>9075958
>doesn't own an OLED
Poorfag cope.

>>9075980
I do own an OLED, in fact. Which is exactly how I know you're retarded.