/vr/ - Retro Games

>>9043295
Fps doesn't matter that much contrary to what companies trying to sell you things want you to believe. I can tell the difference between them but in terms of gameplay it doesn't matter outside of specific genres. As long as the frame rate is overall consistent it's fine. Also I like it when a lot of effects cause slowdown. Feels like the game is going slowmo for some sick shit you did

>>9043295
Only losers care about frame rate. N64 games were fine. I had tons of fun and can replay them to this day. Touch grass.

>>9043303
I completely agree, and I don't come from a place of youtube framerate analytics or anything.
But if a game engine is running at 20fps and skipping frames, itll affect the playability as the engine will be hitching and might not read an input made on a skipped frame.
Ocarina of time somehow totally avoids this issue and it has stumped me for the longest time.

>>9043306
didnt even read a single word of my post. learn how to talk to people bud

>>9043295
well it's consistently 20, and doesn't dip in boss fights or whatnot
would it be nice if it was 60? yeah, but that's for modders to do, couldn't really do that stuff in 1998, especially not on a game of its scale

>>9043295
OP here
this is not a "20 fps is bad thread"
its the COMPLETE opposite. not sure if I made that clear enough

The older I get the more I feel that the n64 zelda's are literally magic. Like divine intervention came down and made these ganes

>>9043309
I read your post. I just don’t care about discussions about frame rate. My entire response stands. Get over it. Good games will always be good, frame rates don’t matter.

>>9043317
this has nothing to do with the game being good or not, ocarina of time has always been my favorite game ever made.
I'm just trying to have a discussion on a.... discussion board.
but yeah I'll get over it.

I don't think it was especially smooth, although I was emulating on a 144hz panel. It was easily noticeable compared to 30 or 60FPS games on other late 90s and early 00s platforms.
I think the lack of difficulty and the fact that it was a truly locked 20FPS with very rare drops had probably helped with all that.

>>9043317
What a cocksucker

I'm looking forward to the optimised decompilation hacking like they have done with Mario 64

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_rzYnXEQlE

>>9043328
Man oot hard as duck though

Why do people like writing long posts to justify or oppose a popular opinion that they made up?

>>9043352
why do people skim posts and then waste time replying and solving a captcha for something they didnt even read.

here I'll make it flashy for everyone who cant read anything longer than a sentence

***OCARINA OF TIME 20 FPS HAS THE RESPONSIVENESS OF A GAME RUNNING AT A HIGHER FRAMERATE

HOW DOES IT DO THIS? SPECIFIC REASON? *****

I really didnt think this question was that hard to comprehend

>>9043358

You can poll the user inputs at a faster rate than the rendering framerate. This is nothing new, and used all the time.

>>9043295
i wouldn't have known OoT runs at a low framerate if /v/ never brought it up. not sure how you're supposed to notice shit like that unless you take adderal and count the amount of times flies in your room flap their wings.

>>9043295
Short Answer: Frame times.

>>9043394
this is the sort of answer I was looking for, thank you!
I'm not knowledgeable enough to be able to put into words that OOT's 20 fps is not an accurate reflection to how the game actually feels to play without being told to take off my nostalgia goggles.
I just think that its severely important to keep in mind when discussing anything regarding OOT's framerate, and I'm tired of more people not being familiar of whats actually going on other than the frame graph

>>9043295
OoT rarely if ever drops frames, I don't recall really seeing it except maybe in some map transition or something. I will stop being critical of its framreate as soon as people stop being critical of daytona USA's framerate. Deal?

>>9043346
It was easy for me, even compared to Wind Waker. I guess after MGS2 on Extreme or Dark Souls nothing is that hard truly, though.

With the source ports existing it's moot now. Don't like the low frame rate of the original? Run it higher.
Don't like 4:3? Don't like n64 controller? etc.
Whatever preference you have can just be adapted.

I personally don't mind or see it as a problem, but do appreciate when it's higher so I got to enjoy both and so can anyone else. :^)

>>9043358
Why did that post make you so angry?

>>9043436
>>9043436
Dude come on. I played those games too. But oot is hard man.

>>9043482
didnt make me angry, but the post was so far off base from what I was even saying that it kinda shocked me lol.
at this point my question is answered so I guess unnecessary OOT framerate bitching /general/ now

>>9043306
I love the n64 but in very few cases the framerate made games impossible to play. See for example the multiplayer in south park 64, having 4 players splitscreen. it's just impossible.

OoT looks weird and unnatural at a higher fps.

>>9043345
how can a random dude do this in a couple of weeks but nintendo couldn't do it back then?

>>9043569
nvm, just got to the part where he explains that it needs the expansion pack to work

>>9043569
Autism?

no, but seriously, look at the code. They had changed from writing games in Assembler to C a lot of the variables are defined numerous times and a large number weren't even used. Loops weren't used properly or efficiently and the rendering pipeline was new to them. Code always gets messy when you have a large group of people contributing and I'm sure the launch deadline made cleanup a bitch

>>9043295
A couple of possibilities

In some games the physics will be calculated at a higher level, in gran turismo 2 the physics are 60 fps but the graphics are still 30. If you play gt1 and 2 you can see the difference.

Banjo kazooie runs at 30 fps but it has slowdown every few seconds most of the time so you notice it more. Zelda stays constant and a lot of the time you are moving forward watching little things become big.

Some other games like golden eye the frame rate will affect the speed that you move in the game so they you really notice the frame rate while in other games the calculation of distance is not tied to the framerate as much.

Everytime I look at n64 games I laugh so fucking hard that people were stupid enough to play this absolute shit. You retard boomers not understand what graphics were or something?

Tendies and their stockholm syndrome never fail to make me laugh. The game looks and runs like ass. Even for the time and for the gimped system it was on, its performance is piss poor. The aforementioned Banjo-Kazooie blows it away despite being an older game. In fact I've heard scuttlebutt from Phil Tossell that Nintendo EAD were so angered about Banjo looking a million times better that they went and redid every texture in Ocarina only a few months before release. Funny if true but funnier that it still looks like shit anyway.

>>9043317
>>how exactly does Ocarina of Time perform and control so smoothly behind the presentation of a locked 20fps?
And you actually responded with
>N64 games were fine. I had tons of fun and can replay them to this day. Touch grass.
>I just don’t care about discussions about frame rate. My entire response stands.
Not if you don't actually care what was being discussed
>I read your post. I just don’t care about discussions about frame rate.
Really ask yourself why you felt a need to respond. Do you not realise you haven't disputed anything in his post? Fucking lol

>>9043672
Works on my machine.

>>9043295
I think it has to do with how the game is programmed, the team knew from the getgo when the project moved to cartridge what sort of framerate they were going to be locked in if they truly felt like also improving on Mario 64's graphics. The old Hyrule field and massive areas, after been identified in old screenshots (for example, what we thought was beta lost woods was in reality tree sprites in hyrule field with a fuckton of mist to hide it all) must've made the game run like shit and therefore the game design was tweaked to "we have to make this run at 20 STABLE fps".

>We need to
Nah.

oot and mm are tailor made for 20fps so all the animation keyframes and shit were made to work as smoothly as possible in 20fps

>>9043295
Castlevania 64 is of similar complexity and graphical fidelity to OoT, was released months after OoT, and runs much smoother. I'm sure OoT could have been optimized to run faster if they had more time but clearly nintendo was no prioritizing the frame rate.

>>9043558
for OoT, interpolating to 40FPS feels better than 60 somehow as long as your monitor is running at a multiple of 40Hz. it’s the best tradeoff between increased quality and game feel.

>>9043309
game is rendering graphics at 20fps
game is reading inputs in code faster than that?

im not sure but the video rendering and logic are loaded from separate areas of the console so maybe that could explain

I especially love the smooth framerate because of the way it makes the niggers here seethe. I wanted a smoother Ocarina of Time since I played it on nintendo 64. It felt so choppy compared to Mario 64 and Goldeneye and the previous SNES games.
>oh but anon, you were a child, how could you know what frame rates were?
I knew that lots of gameplay activity made games slow when I was 6. Goldeneye actually ran at 60 FPS and had slowdowns when too much was going on, and I recall those slowdowns feeling like how Ocarina of Time played lmao

>>9043346
Ocarina of Time is easy as fuck. Master Quest is somewhat challenging. Majora's Mask is 100x harder

>>9044029
With the N64 what will determine how fast your game can run depends on how little time is wasted doing things in the wrong order or using a time consuming method to do what you need to get done.
With OOT and Mario 64 there are examples of functions being called at the wrong time or doing things in ways that technically work but cause bottlenecks getting from one end of a function call to the other. Basically CPU time is wasted and compounds the problem of the CPU and RCP having a shared bus to the RAM and no proper debugging tools to catch poorly preforming code on your development kit. The SGI Indy's that were used as stand ins before the console was finished doesn't have the shared RAM problems a real N64 has and is based around dedicated busses for everything.

Its totally possible that Konami had way more proficient C coders than Nintendo had when they were developing Mario 64 and OOT. There is a shit load of debug code and even code not called or only called once left over in those games. Konami had about 40 PS1 games on released by the time Castlevania 64 was released.

>>9043295
It probably has something to do with camera controls (or lack thereof) so you don't notice, like how looking around with a mouse feels horrible on lower framerates but ok with a stick

Tendies and their stockholm syndrome never fail to make me laugh. The game looks and runs like ass. Even for the time and for the gimped system it was on, its performance is piss poor. The aforementioned Banjo-Kazooie blows it away despite being an older game. In fact I've heard scuttlebutt from Phil Tossell that Nintendo EAD were so angered about Banjo looking a million times better that they went and redid every texture in Ocarina only a few months before release. Funny if true but funnier that it still looks like shit anyway.

>>9043310
>couldn't do that in 98
Yes you could. Why are Nintendo fans like this?

>>9043295
>>9043303
>>9043309
Marketing has a huge role to play in it all. It's the same sort of thing as "bits" back in the 90s. No one knew what fucking Bits were but 16 is double 8 and 32 is double that so bigger is better?

Literally zoomer gamers and marketers are the only people that care about FPS in games. In film it totally makes the difference between how something feels. Christ, remember how sickening the 48fps Hobbit movies were and how shit it made them look? People laughed at The Order on PS4 when the Devs said they kept it at 30fps rather than 60 to keep it looking more filmic, but you know what? It DID look more filmic because of it.

Is there anything wrong with higher frame ratesm absolutely not. Silky smooth can be really impressive to see and fun to play. Is there anything wrong with lower frame rates? Not so long as the game is built with it in mind and is still fun to play

>>9043295
>So without repeating myself too much, how exactly does Ocarina of Time perform and control so smoothly behind the presentation of a locked 20fps
Because moving with an analog stick is slower than pointing with a mouse, every animation is also made with 20fps in mind, so framerate is more tolerable, not 'smooth'

>>9043672
based, stealing that image.

>>9043398
Why is the u in "You" scratched out

>>9043569
He actually explains it in that video. One of the biggest slowdown causes was nintendo didnt want to take the risk and put out a more slimmed down stand alone build and just published the development build instead.
Also a lot of the tricks he uses he states Nintendo just didnt know about them until later in the n64s life cycle. I mean SM64 doesnt even have dynamic lights or a lot of shit their later titles did.

>>9043295
The low FPS is intended and soulful.

>>9043352
>NOOO STOP DISCUSSING VIDEO GAMES