/vr/ - Retro Games

>>9035757

>Thief Gold or Thief 2?
Thief 2. Thief Gold has some amazing highs but also some depressive lows.
>Dark Project or Gold?
Haven't played TDP.
>Was reducing the fantasy elements in favor of a more grounded setting for Thief 2 a good move?
I'm just glad there's still some of them in Thief 2. I think having a more grounded setting and then adding an occasional fantasy moment amplifies said moments and makes them much more memorable.
>Is the Thieves Guild mission really that bad?
I don't particularly hate it but I can see why people would.
>Is Karras's voice really that grating?
Leave my boy Karras alone, he did nothing wrong.
>Were the Hammerites right all along?
Considering the events of thr first game, yeah, for the most part.
>Top 3 TG/T2 missions?
Life of the Party
Blackmail
The Sword
>Should there be a revival of the series through remasters/remakes/sequels or should they let it rest in peace?
Let it rest. The community has been doing an amazing job keeping it alive for more than two decades, it's not worth risking tearing the community apart over what would be at best a graphical improvement, at worst a complete bastardization of some of the most soulful games ever made.
>Top 3 FMs?
Into the Odd
The Scarlet Cascabel
Feast of Pilgrims
>Will skacky ever finish The Black Parade?
Last I checked he got an actual industry job as a level designer so who knows.
>Will Wille ever return and complete the Mystic Gems trilogy?
Bro let it go bro he hasn't been active for close to 7 years.
>The Broken Goddess by Random_Taffer fucking when?
Probably not very soon.

fpbp
/thread

Thieves guild isn’t so bad, going to the abandoned village for the first time and having to find all the gold on hard can suck a dick

'Twas just the sweet pingings of a boiler!

...most probably...

>>9035757
>Thief Gold or Thief 2?
Gold is the more memorable of the 2 games just because the high points are so high and it has this raw old school fantasy feel to it.
2 is much more consistent and better polished though.

>>9035918
>>Top 3 TG/T2 missions?
>Blackmail
Really?

Are taffers autistic?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsBS4DnX5p0&ab_channel=Klatremus

Not entirely related to Thief but this is as good a thread as any for my autism. I drew this the other day. It's a scene from the Rec Deck in System Shock 2 where a protocol droid is hanging out in the clone maids shop.
>>9035757
>Thief Gold or Thief 2?
Gold
>Dark Project or Gold?
Gold
>Was reducing the fantasy elements in favor of a more grounded setting for Thief 2 a good move?
Absolutely not.
>Is the Thieves Guild mission really that bad?
Yes, it only becomes tolerable once you actually know where the objectives are and then it graduates to being mediocre. Bad layout, badly designed, obviously the least finished of the beta maps they repurposed for Gold edition.
>Is Karras's voice really that grating?
It's Droopy.
>Were the Hammerites right all along?
Yes.
>Top 3 TG/T2 missions?
Bonehoard, Song of the Caverns, Return to the Cathedral (yes, all three from the first game, if I had to pick one from 2 it'd be Precious Cargo)
>Top 3 FMs?
Hard for me to say, I used to keep ratings in my FMSel but I don't have them anymore (reformat). I've played fucking hundreds of FMs for both games. Endless Rain is a generic pick at this point but it's probably up there in top 3 somewhere. Skacky makes good shit. I generally think the Rocksbourg series is a bit of a fucking cryptic mess but A Better Tomorrow (the black and white horror fm by the same guy iirc) is very memorable because of how spooky it is. Unfortunately most of the more memorable FMs for me aside from the mainstream picks (Skacky, Melan, Nicked, etc.) are the ones that I fucking hated playing like Nightcrawler from Shadow of Doubt or Gaetane's pixel hunts.
>Will skacky ever finish The Black Parade?
Never ever.
>>9039069
>Klatremus
Extremely autistic, but I do find his videos kinda relaxing to have on when I'm doing other stuff. It's sometimes interesting to see just how autistic he can get in order to beat a mission without busting supreme ghost, even if it means him inching across the floor for 3 hours straight.

>>9039278
*stacks boxes on you*
All joking aside I do the same thing, its pretty comfy even if I would never play that way, and the lore tidbits are enjoyable.

>>9039304
Yeah I am way too hyper playing these games to chug ritalin and get into supreme ghosting, but I do find it interesting for background noise/viewing as I said. When I play Thief I'm zooming around a lot of the time, it's one of the main reasons why I prefer Gold over 2 actually, being able to bunnyhop, it has the bonus of alleviating shitty FM map design where every hallway is oversized by a factor of 4. I love the agility and acceleration that Garret has in T1. When I play Thief 2 FMs I specifically mod the bunnyhopping back in via one of the configs (been a while since I played so can't remember how exactly but it was definitely a thing).

I also do like that Klatremus does some behind the scenes/cut content/lore research so he can expand upon the readables when he finds them, it's kinda like a Thief lore audiobook sometimes kek.

>>9038991
How do people not like Blackmail?
>comfy and big as fuck mansion
>multiple ways to break in
>drunk Benny moment
>actually challenging compared to other mansions
>the twist and the panic that ensues
>letting go of your differences and burying Truart

>>9040735
This.
Keep on taffin'

>>9035757
If you're already playing FMs why are you asking stupid fucking dipshit questions?

>>9040958

The Black Parade has me hyped like I'm 10 again

>>9040735
I didn't say it was bad. I just am surprised it's top 3.

>Thief Gold or Thief 2?
The Dark Project
>Dark Project or Gold?
The Dark Project
>Was reducing the fantasy elements in favor of a more grounded setting for Thief 2 a good move?
Yeah probably, but only because Thief 1 did the fantasy stuff so well. It was nice to have a more human-focused sequel after experiencing all the fantasy horror of T1.
>Is the Thieves Guild mission really that bad?
It's pretty bad. But really the worst part is that Gold places it only a few missions into the game, which is a very steep spike in difficulty for new players, pretty retarded move honestly.
>Is Karras's voice really that grating?
Na I love it. His creepy elderly gay man voice sells what a weirdo he is.
>Were the Hammerites right all along?
I'd say they were more trustworthy than the Pagans and possibly even the Keepers after what happens in Thief 3. They're a bunch of dull zealots who lock up and torture innocent citizens for no reason, but so does the City Watch. They do build cool shit, and really their only genuine threat to the City was with the Mechanist split. Without the other factions to keep them in check, no doubt they'd run wild with power, but you can say the same about any other faction.
>Top 3 TG/T2 missions?

Thief 1 in no order:
Down in the Bonehoard
Assassins or The Sword
Return to the Cathedral
Special mention to The Lost City

Thief 2:
It's honestly impossible for me to whittle down my favourites because there's so many good missions in Thief 2. I just hate the ones set in the open city areas and Sabotage at Soulforge. That last level is actually pretty good, but by the end of Thief 2 I just can never be bothered.

>Should there be a revival of the series through remasters/remakes/sequels or should they let it rest in peace?
Let it rest in peace. The reboot was gay and Dishonored is probably closest to what a decent modern version of Thief would look like. I hope Nightdive doesn't do a shitty remaster of T1 and 2 one day, that would suck.

>>9042863
>I hope Nightdive doesn't do a shitty remaster of T1 and 2 one day, that would suck.
The rights got bought by a behemoth sized company that owns 124 studios. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embracer_Group#Subsidiaries

>>9042863
>I just hate the ones set in the open city areas
I'm assuming you mean ones like Trace the Courier or Ambush and not Life of the Party.

ur a taffer

>Thief Gold or Thief 2?
Gold
>Dark Project or Gold?
Gold
>Was reducing the fantasy elements in favor of a more grounded setting for Thief 2 a good move?
No, although I dont mind it entirely I get tired of the samey T2 missions and I just really really enjoy TDP/Golds style more overall
>Is the Thieves Guild mission really that bad?
No, its far from perfect but its a lazy thing to mark against the game at this point, the missions fine, it could use some work but I actually like it
>Is Karras's voice really that grating?
Yes, thats the point and its great
>Were the Hammerites right all along?
Undoubtably
>Top 3 TG/T2 missions?
Bonehoard, Sword and Song/Shipping..., Framed and Bank
>Should there be a revival of the series through remasters/remakes/sequels or should they let it rest in peace?
Fan Missions are perfectly fine for me, we need less remakes in general these days so fuck that
>Top 3 FMs?
Into the Odd, Endless Rain and Sepulchre of the Sinistral
>Will skacky ever finish The Black Parade?
I hope
>Will Wille ever return and complete the Mystic Gems trilogy?
No
>The Broken Goddess by Random_Taffer fucking when?
Tomorrow

>>9044189
yes

>>9040958
OP here, this is a thinly veiled FM recommendation thread because I need more FMs to play, hence the questions

>>9038012
You just need to look on top of joists. For some reason, this is where people in the City like to hide their valuables..

I've been thinking about it more and I'm pretty sure that Thieves' Guild is just a masterclass of poor half-baked design that does not keep the flow of the rest of the game. There's only a few times in the first game where playing on Expert instead of Normal or Hard becomes too cryptic for someone on a first time play through. An example is the loot required on Haunted Cathedral on Expert, but the Thieves' Guild is even worse. The objectives are just that poorly designed. The additional Expert objective to find the Silver Bracelet is absolutely ridiculous without some prior knowledge, a tiny cabinet in the side of a fire pit facing away from the two entrances into the room. And that's before even taking into consideration the main objective that is present on all difficulties, finding the vase in a secret safe behind a wall banner. The game itself never even tells you that you can cut wall banners with your sword so if you don't know that by the time you get to that mission you're likely to waste a lot of time trying to figure out where the hell the vase is. These two cryptic objectives combined with the the most mazelike sewer level design in the series, a high amount of enemy guards and mandatory backtracking through the entire level makes it extremely tedious. It's definitely a much worse level than a lot of even mediocre fan missions that people have made over the years. People give the Mage Towers a lot of shit but it's always felt far better than Thieves' Guild to me, the main point in favor of the Mage Towers is how it isn't a frustrating maze with cryptic required objectives. Yes it's one of the most linear missions with the intended order of operations required to beat it being the same every time you play but at least you're not walking around a sewer for 5 hours looking for a silver bracelet.

>>9044854
Chalice of Souls. It's a thief 4 brothel mission remake/demake

>>9046075
Wait, is it actually meant to be like the Thi4f brothel mission? I really like Chalice of Souls and I can't imagine that sort of detailed level design in the reboot.

>>9046520
It's supposed to be a reimagining. It still consists of the brothel and keeper stuff but the mission is split into two due to new dark's limitation

>>9045937
>dude thieves guild is soo shit
>plays some intricate complex cryptic fan mission that´s more of a pain in the ass than thieves guild will ever be

>>9042863
Dishonored 1 was pretty cool, how was 2?

>>9047098
I cannot hate Thieves Guild after playing GORT's FMs, this guy redefines what bad design is, from his puzzle design down to how he names his creations.

>>9047098
Oh no, don't get me wrong. I absolutely hate cryptic fan missions full of pixel hunting for tiny switches to open mandatory secret passages. Thieves' Guild is still terrible, even if those are worse.

Fuck you
Deadly Shadows was good

>>9051532
Whats that? A new FM?

>>9051532
If you like MGS or SC maybe.

What are some good FMs with that Ancient Greek/Roman/Masonic/Christian uncanny architectural weirdness a lot of the original TG missions have? Into the Odd did it pretty well but I need more.

>>9052975
Shadow Play.

Honest thoughts on thi4f?

>>9053268
It has a few good ideas but completely pisspoor execution all around. It's one of these games that screams "wasted potential" at every corner.

>>9053582
Really? It just sounds shit built from the ground up. All rope arrows are contextual. It has the shit skill tree garbage newer games have. Level design is tiny and linear. Lots of cringe cutscenes. At least 3 has some redeeming qualities what does 4 have?

>>9035757
Thief Gold. with new_mantle
Karras is fine. I played it blind, and spent most of it imagining some kind of fatass embedded in a not-Dwemer mobility scooter, that I might get to blow up. Sad we never get to see him.
Hammerites were fools. FFS, how many hammer haunts are there going around killing people, thats thier fault. They should have updated thier journals and fixed that afterlife glitch. That, and technology cannot just be occultized like magic.
Im working through T1 FMs right now, favorite are: Falling in Love, Enigmatic Treasure.

>>9053670
>Sad we never get to see him.
There are paintings of him all over the game and in the last mission you can see him behind glass hiding in his bunker.

>>9053689
He's also in the final cutscene.

>>9053695
>>9053689
I guess I missed that. I figured the paintings were just for show, that he was such an elitist egomaniac he could get away with having a propaganda portrait that looked nothing like him. That, and the whole 1st/2nd gen children of karras / masked servant thing gave me the cripple vibe. I figured it would be a catharsis to have him revealed as a vengeful cripple who had been dependent on machines, would have made a bit more sense that just, hes crazy okay? Maybe I should do writing for games. Lord knows they need it, when was the last time a new game scared you like a hammer haunt?

>>9053838
Probably doom 3.

I suck at theif and always end up getting noticed by guards and running away multiple times. Anyone got any tips for sucking less? I'll pick the games back up and try again

>>9053869
Play the tutorial (training) maybe? Then just git gud. Thief is a slow game, usually. Theres plenty of leeway on most all encounters. If you just pay attention to what the guards are doing, you can tell when they have a suspicion, when they know you're there, etc. In the engine, detection depends on sight, sound, and alert level. If the guards are not spooked, you can almost run right up and bonk them. If they are all alerted, then they will spot you when you lean out from a dark corner. All guards have an AI set that includes a route they will take. Only sometimes is the route random or branching. When you go for a knockout, be cautious, until the very end. For hard targets, creep as close as you can, but then run the last five feet and bonk him right in the face. You wont be able to avoid detection by sight or sound at that range, but they wont have time to react and alert anyone. Many encounters are designed as puzzles - you have to determine which order to knockout the guards in. Always hide bodies, its a good habit.
Many many times you can almost hide in plain sight, by crouching and staying still in even a slight shadow. In most cases, the ground youre walking on will show a shadow if there is one cast there you can hide in. These can be even in doorways and by posts. You can creep by briefly tapping the walk key to move slowly, but silently. works well on marble floors. Try to do without items and special arrows for as much as you can, but there are times they will be required. Every campaign mission can be beat with standard loadout on expert.

>>9053936
>Thief is a slow game, usually.
Hard disagree here. Once you really get good and know what you can get away with you can go pretty fast. It just takes a lot of learning what sounds travel where. You can run on most surfaces if the guards haven't seen you but tile/metal/gravel is a equivalent to a gunshot. It really comes down to being able to predict if a guards around the corner by listening to them and having enough game sense to judge if you can quickly peak around the corner without being detected if there is a guard.

If you've been seen though then there's a lot less you can get away with but usually there's an alternate route around the guy who saw you anyways.

>>9053670
>favorite are: [GORT FM]

>>9053869
The AI has roughly two states: They're either relaxed or know someone is taffin' about. When they're relaxed you can sprint around on carpet, stone and wood no problem, they won't get suspicious. Anything else you need moss arrows or learn how to crouch-creep.
Having weapons out (except for the bj) makes you more visible and slower. So unless you need them, put away your sword and bow.
Flash bombs are very powerful, you can blackjack stunned guards from any angle if you're fast enough, lets you clear whole rooms if you're fast enough. Just look away or you'll get flashbanged, too.

>>9054787
Adding to this that in general you want to alert the guards as little as possible. A guard that went out of his way to look for you and then returned to his patrol route or post is still on high alert and will react to sounds or seeing you much easier, sometimes even immediately turning around and attacking you in situations when they wouldn't, like when you're running on wood or stone near them.

how do I download 1 and 2 and get them working ? It's impossible

I will build shelters from the wind, feel the countless waters, see the vast earth, burn in the eternal fires

>>9056478
download on steam or gog
apply fan patches tfix lite for thief gold
t2fix for thief 2

>>9056740
I don't use those services

Is the dark mod worth playing?

Gold or tdp? I'm having anxiety attack cause I wanna play it the correct way

>>9056852
It's ok and has some good missions.

>>9056826
tfix lite for thief gold
tafferpatcher for thief 2

>>9056891
>I wanna play it the correct way
Back then people only had TDP for a while, then Thief Gold came out.

Playing both in release order is the only 'correct' way, you autist.

>>9056826
Use this my nigga

magnet:?xt=urn:btih:64d8cc65e8e605446a076041da9c244c41bd1d27&dn=Thief%20collection

It has the Gog installers for both games, installer for tfix lite and a giant collection of FMs

Have fun (for free, real taffers don't pay for their stuff)

>>9056891
I would argue that TDP's campaign offers the better experience. the gold exclusive missions are crude and don't fit well into the theme of the game (in my humble opinion). in fact, most complaints I see about thief 1 relate to gold exclusive content.

that being said, gold is needed to play most fan missions. if you have the time I'd do as >>9057889 says

>>9053260
Played this and absolutely loved it, there's something really oppressive about the atmosphere of this FM.

>>9059212
It's the FM that got me to play FMs. Someone on here posted a pic with a bunch of mission screenshots in it and something about Shadow Play jumped out at me. I still really can't put my finger on it.

Is AngelLoader the best way to enjoy your FMs?

taffer

>>9063168
How can a taffer make these games taffer without self imposed challenges?

>>9063179
Self-imposed challenges is the only way. Always play on Expert, obviously. Save on objective completion, no knockouts, ghosting etc. I try to save as little as possible personally but there's many FMs that demand a lot of platforming and with how wonky the jumping and mantling system can get or how sometimes after mantling you make a sound loud enough to be heard to the other side of the stage, it's not exactly the most fun way to play.

>>9063179
Do the levels in one shot without saving aside from maybe at some platforming/ladder sections because the jump physics are shit. Way more fun than tedious meme runs like ghosting.

>>9064697
To elaborate more on this. It makes it feel more like you're actually there and have to take situations more seriously than doing some extra challenge ontop just to dab on the guards. I find it more immersive than just loading a save from 5 minutes ago when you died and it also makes you have to live with the consequences of your mistakes and fuckups.

>>9064704
Ironman sounds fun.

Cozy

What difficulty for a first timer? Starting with Thief 2 by the way.

>>9067692
The difficulty just removes stuff from the game and lowers your health so preferably expert. Thief 1 has 1 or 2 levels with pretty rough loot requirements so expert might be annoying in that regard but otherwise it's the only way to really play.
>Starting with Thief 2 by the way.
Oof

>>9067692
I have mixed feeling with skipping 1. On one hand most people get filtered by supernatural levels. On the other hand once you git gud you realize they're the best parts of the game plus it preps you to enjoy the 2nd game more since you have a grip on things.

>>9067692
Higher difficulties in thief add more objectives, but can make it overwhelming for newbies. Normal is too easy and perhaps too free for what the player can do and Expert definitely will kick your teeth in unless you have a lot of patients for stealth and a willingness to really comb levels for the required loot. Hard is a good medium, I think.

>>9067740
>patients
*patience

>>9067740
>Expert definitely will kick your teeth in unless you have a lot of patients for stealth and a willingness to really comb levels for the required loot
Only in the first game. Thief 2 is ez mode. I was surprised by how easily I breezed through it after getting stomped by 1.

>>9067692
Whatever you do do not play normal. The game ends when you get the main objective. No having to escape the place you broke into. You'll pick up a piece of treasure then abruptly "Mission Complete".

>>9067749
>Only in the first game. Thief 2 is ez mode.
That's true with the exception of the first two missions. Running Interference requires you to find a secret and Shipping can be quite tough with the spice bags.

>>9065641
Hrggg, that darkness. Comfy af. What FM is this from...?

no matter how many times I replay Gold, this level never grows on me
what the fuck were they thinking

>>9053260
crt?

>>9068964
The Scarlet Cascabel, it's absolutely amazing.

>>9069091
I will never understand the people who rate this one higher than Thieves' Guild or Escape.

>>9070330
It sounds good as a concept, a wizard academy could have a ton of level design variety especially considering the elemental towers they added, it's just very poorly executed. I went in wanting to love that mission the first time I played it, but the towers are a chore to go through and the rest of the stage is incredibly generic and repetitive.

>>9069091
I enjoy navigating the central tower. The other towers are the problem for me. This is the most linear Thief level apart from the Maw of Chaos, which is a literal tunnel.

>>9069103
Yeah. I refuse to play Thief without one now. It makes the shadows so sexy. The camera doesn't do it justice.

Has anyone tried the ESRGAN AI upscaled texture mod? Does it look good ingame?

>>9069091
The wind tower is the prime example of why the dark engine is not good for platforming. The earth tower is narrow and too well lit for thief's gameplay and the fire tower is nothing but iron grating which obviously fucking sucks.
I think most agree the central tower is at least decent and it's more what people expect when they play thief, but those elemental towers are just ass.

>>9071310
I wish it could upscale the models too.

>>9035757

>Thief Gold or Thief 2?
Gold for FMs, 2 for base game.
>Dark Project or Gold?
Never played TDP.
>Was reducing the fantasy elements in favor of a more grounded setting for Thief 2 a good move?
Yes, because 1 is too spooky for me. I reached The Haunted Cathedral went into the sewers and saw something and then closed the game and never played it again.
>Is the Thieves Guild mission really that bad?
I liked it. It was the first mission in Thief 1 where I threw ghosting out the window and knocked everyone out because I didn't know what to do and I didn't want to sneak around all the time looking for the solution and the last pieces of loot.
>Is Karras's voice really that grating?
Yes.
>Were the Hammerites right all along?
>Top 3 TG/T2 missions?
>Should there be a revival of the series through remasters/remakes/sequels or should they let it rest in peace?
After Thief 4 no. In an ideal world we would get a perfect sequel with mod support and the movement speed control from Chaos Theory, but that won't happen.
>Top 3 FMs?
I've only played 3 so far and that's Endless Rain and Between These Dark Walls and Shadow Politics, but I don't like the last one.
>Will skacky ever finish The Black Parade?
Hopefully.

I've been wanting to play more FMs but whenever I try old missions like Calendra's Legacy I get filtered, but I don't want to skip them to get to the new ones either because I fear I won't be able to go back.

>>9072110
>saw something and closed the game and never played it again

>>9072239
Craymen remain one of the most disturbing enemy I've seen in any game. Enemies in games like Silent Hill are so over the top they don't really get to me. Craymen somehow capture the disgustingness of maggots bugs and rotting crayfish despite being so low poly. I think it's the colors they picked.

>>9072239
>>9072110
>>9072710
craymen are fucking funny though, looks like a man in a suit flailing their arms like a football mascot.

>>9072965
I think craymen are creepy as fuck but nothing compares to Beta Version Bugbeast

TFix just fucked me so hard. I didn't see that it added a line for Necroage in the cam_mod.ini and I wanted to try playing without it, but disabling it in the .ini didn't work.
Also base Thief 1 really doesn't look that bad. While Necroage textures definitely look really good. It's really hard to see with it.