/vr/ - Retro Games

>>9032106
1>2>4>>>>>>>>3

>>9032106
no but the narrative is really good except the bad translation

>>9032106
MGS3 is a better game, MGS2 is better as a whole. It's my favorite game of all time, in fact.

>>9032106
Nope, the stealth component is lacking given Splinter Cell and Thief are contemporaries. Also too little gameplay. It's got some cool AI quirks though.

>>9032129
Thief is shit and irrelevant, immersive sims are a meme genre, and the only Splinter Cell worth a damn is Chaos Theory.

>>9032134
Ok so you're not interested in having a convo. Good luck.

>>9032134
can you actually form a coherent argument without vitriolic buzzwords

The holy trinity of stealth games.

Thief 2: The Metal Age
Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory
Hitman: Blood Money

>>9032106
It's barely a stealth game, you piece of shit. Kojimadrones are all mentally deficient.

*ahem*

>>9032106
Purely in terms of stealth gameplay mechanics? No.
As a total package though, I'd say yes.

>>9032134
Based reply. Zoomers fear him.

>tranq an enemy soldier
>drag him to a flaming pipeline between struts
>nothing happens, he doesn’t spaz out
>not even a codec call
Technolo-

>>9032106
No story wise mgs1 where there's no whiny bitchy Raiden or mgs3 gameplay

>>9032134
True on all counts

>>9032106
Reddit Gear Solid 2 is not a stealth game it's a stealth movie game, learn the difference
it fucking sucks btw, easily the worst Reddit Gear Solid title

>>9032480
luv u babe. i also love every game you hate <3

>>9032480
>Reddit Gear Solid
>Reddit Hills
>Reddit Evil 4
>Redditkoden 2
>Redditsona 5
>Reddit Eternal

All the games you hate is "Reddit something" LMAO

>>9032480
say reddit one more time. I dare you.

If we're talking only stealth mechanics, Splinter Cell blows it out of the water, if we're talking overall, probably

>>9032609
Both Mgs and splinter cell have humor and brilliant voice acting. The only thing I can give the victory to mgs is its style and graphics.

>>9032663
The thing about Splinter Cell I just don't care for is the plots, at least of the games I played. It's not that I hated, I just didn't give a fuck bout it

>>9032106
The Fatman fight gives me ptsd and is “that” part of the game, but overall an amazing game and even more so when you think about just how advanced it was at the time.

>>9032265
>need a guard's eyeball for retina scan.
>shoot him, triggers alarm.
>hide him in locker until alert phase is over.
>open locker
>guard's body falls to the floor and then disappears.
Technolo-

>>9032106
MGS2 isn't really much of a stealth game. Even compared to others in the genre at the time.

>>9032106
No, it's one of the best arcade stealth games though, probably because there is barely any competition.
In terms of pure stealth games, the peak reminds with the first two Thief games and Splinter Cell. No, not even MGSV surpassed them.

>>9032480
Metal Gear only became reddit the moment MGSV came out.
The MSX games and MGS1 literally filter out all the redditors, especially VR Missions which is pure gameplay and one of the peaks of the series, same with MGS2's Snake Tales.

>>9032106
Does it even count as a stealth game? It's full of forced alerts and combat sections. For stealth fans MGS is terrible.

>>9033574
>It's full of forced alerts and combat sections
there isn't really that many. I think there's only 2 in the game with regular enemies.

the view cones are gamey compared to what you'd find in splintercell or thief but unlike mgs1 2 manages to make a pretty compelling challenge out of them. I also feel the guard interaction outside of line of sight is ironically more complex in 2, splintercell, even chaos theory feels kind of robotic in comparison.

>get MGS2 as coomer teen
>see these types of posters in the lockers
>JIZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

>get camera
>take pictures, save them to ps2 memory card
>have a personal porn collection in MGS2

You had to take what you could get back in my day!

>>9033465
>Metal Gear only became reddit the moment MGSV came out.
>Not Metal Gear Rising, a game people on /v/ overhyped because of a mediocre Devil May Cry reboot
Also, you're dumbass for replying to obvious bait.

>>9032106
>The best stealth game ever made?
Second Sight

>>9033602
>the view cones are gamey compared to what you'd find in splintercell or thief
Pretty sure those games have view cones too, they're just don't show it to you on a GPS.

>>9033619
>everything i disagree with must be a bait!
kys Kojima drone

>>9033613
Damn I’m not even joking when I say thanks for the story Gramps
I’m an 18yo who grew up on the GC and mostly Wii, and only got into retro games and PlayStation when I was around 15. I only got a PS3 last year and played MGS2 for the first time late 2021 and it’s by far a top three game for me, it’s fucking amazing. But anyways, I love hearing stories from people who were there when it was new

>>9033619
>mediocre Devil May Cry reboot
DMC was great and most of the hate it got was because some insufferable cunts chimped over the change of characters despite the game being a fucking REBOOT
>Inb4 but DMC was very cringe!!!
and so is the rest of the series, Devil May Cringe was like that since the first game
also anyone who puts 2 over DMC is a contrarian faggots who never played either of the two games
DMC is also easily better than 1 and even 4

I loved MGS1 and VR Missions as a kid but when I saw 2 at a friend's house I didn't like it for a reason I can't remember. Now MSG was always over the top but I look at the series today and it just feels too weird, sort of like capeshit or anime. What the fuck happened to it? I loved that feel of weird espionage in MGS1. When did it change?

>>9034290
>it’s by far a top three game for me
play more games faggot, Reddit Gear Solid 2 is not even in the top 5 games in the series

>>9034293
>When did it change?
when MGS1 came, the series never recovered after that
Metal Gear 1 and 2 will always be the peak of the series

>>9034297
No need to be a cancerous bitch and ruin the board for everyone. The gameplay, story, and postmodern fourth wall breaking just spoke to me in a super unique way

>>9034327
>The gameplay
am going to ignore the rest of the retarded false shit you said but the fucking gameplay? really? the worst aspect of Reddit Gear Solid 2 is the first thing to bring out trying to praise it?

>>9034293
It changed with 2 yeah. Reminds me kind of code veronica, the earlier entries in the series were very carefully kept in line with western expectations, they were western b movies. And then at some point they decided to just let it rip and not hide the weirdness they'd do domestically, western audiences be damned.

>>9032134
somehow the worst take possible within the first 5 replies

>>9034360
Damn Japanese, they ruined Japanese games!

>>9034327
the gameplay in Reddit Gear Solid 2 is the worst part about it lmao

>>9034290
>thanks for the story Gramps

>>9034365
Keep seething sonny.

>MGS
>stealth

>>9032134
Based. Only faggots will disagree

>>9032134
shit taste
only a double fag would have that taste

>>9032129
The stealth components in MGS2 were actually pretty good, but I agree that Thief and Splinter Cell did it much better. It's a shame that MGS gets all the praise for revolutionizing the genre when the Thief trilogy's stealth mechanics were far superior.

>>9032106
stealth in halo combat evolved is really good
stealth% on aotcr is amazing

>>9032106
Why isn't this series as remembered as Metal Gear and Splinter Cell?

>>9032106
When I played the game the first time alot of the meta narrative stuff flew by my head
However I still enjoyed the game more than MGS1

It's not the best stealth game ever. I'd put V above it, and I'd probably put more if I was me into stealth games

>>9036014
Because it's exclusive. Before you even get into subjective opinions about quality, it's an exclusive series so naturally it will be less popular

>>9036019
that only became relevant in the seventh gen when the 360 gained parity, if it was on ps1 or ps2 the exclusive label didn't really apply.

>>9032239
what the fuck kind of zoomer is playing Thief

>>9036031
what? ESL-kun, english please

The game barely lets you play for more than 10 minutes without interrupting you with a cutscene or 3 hour long codec call.

>>9036019
Nintendo games are exclusive and they're easily the most popular.

>>9036143
Anon, what. Fortnite and COD destroy Nintendo games in popularity

>>9036327
Ask a 45 year old who Mario is and he'll know. Ask him what Fortnite is and he'll have a vague idea that it's what his son plays.

>>9036339
Why do I have to ask a 45 year old? What if I asked a 10 year old instead?

>>9036365
A 10 year old would still know who Mario is. It was to show that Fortnite is likely to be just another fad that'll fade away eventually while Nintendo games have had a more lasting impact on pop culture.

>>9036371
>A 10 year old would still know who Mario
Not necessarily. Like you said about the 45 year old, he might have a vague idea
Just stop being a fucking drone. Your logic is dumb. You could use the same logic with fucking pac-man

>>9036014
Yeah, the broken and hardly playable PC port of Metal Gear Solid as well as the maligned remake are the reason the game was more popular in the 90s.

>>9036137
Just skip them if they bother you so much.

>>9033613
uhh sauce

>>9037952

Mariko Okubo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkpyAA_QM9M

>>9036073
I'm 19 and I played Thief 1 & 2 when I was like 14. I grew up playing Thief 3 a lot too when I was like 8 or 9. We're out there.
I think they're so-so games all things considered. I hate loot limits since that shit just means running in circles when you're done with other objectives, and the AI is terrible. Gameplay wise they're just kind of disappointing even if level design and atmosphere was ace. I don't really like replaying them much.

>>9032134
Why do you guys get so butthurt about Thief but not Splinter Cell?

>>9035342
What did Splinter Cell do that MGS didn't?

>>9038762


It focused on its one thing and did it very well.

>>9038740
What's wrong with the gameplay specifically?

>>9038802
The AI, as I mentioned. It doesn't really impose any real challenge and they're really easy to kite even if you get caught and they have no real skills at sweeping like say, Chaos Theory or MGS AI. Of course, it's a much older game than either of those, but still. The AI are just a nuisance that you have to bonk (and you have a very very clear and obvious path to bonk them virtually 9/10 times) more than anything.
In essence it's more of an adventure-exploration game (and it does that part very well) than it is a gameplay game since the AI isn't that interactive if that makes sense.
Aforementioned loot limits too, they're really annoying on some maps on higher difficulties and finding those final pieces of loot can be painful. Some missions have a huge surplus of loot, and some don't, with some of that surplus being in much harder to find secrets. A guide is an option, but that's also an annoying experience because a mission can be an hour+ long and you have to carefully read loot lists, recall what you found and what you didn't one by one if you're just looking for a pitiful 100 gold to get the mission over with. Some pieces of loot can be as obtuse as a tiny ring on some random mound of dirt.

I appreciate it for what it is, what it innovated and what it's good at, and I'll probably get around to doing another playthrough of Thief 2 soon, but I really start to just tap myself out and lose a lot of my engagement when I'm fed up with the more tiresome aspects of the games.
Also, Thief 3 is shit.

>>9032106
I wish they'd remaster it and take the fucking green tint out

>>9039030
I think the AI makes it so you can make mistakes but it's not an instant game over. It does get alerted more easily after it's seen you though and also tells any guards it sees to be on the lookout. My gripe with a lot of stealth games is after you get caught you have to load a save or gun everyone down because the AI is relentless or they have guns so you can't run away. Also the level design makes it so if a guard sees you then you aren't immediately blocked until they give up because you can just go around them as there's usually multiple paths.
I think the adventure stuff applies more to 1 than 2. 2 is a pretty streamlined traditional stealth experience.
>Some pieces of loot can be as obtuse as a tiny ring on some random mound of dirt.
Haunted Cathedral. It was so bad about this.

>>9039071
they did remaster it for PS3 tho.

>>9032106
No

So fucking bored of the Thief comparisons. For some reason no rules seem to apply when making it. My only guess is that it's a kind of PC faggot legacy thing.

Splinter Cell though, haha, hilarious. I'll even say this--I really like those games. I think the first several Splinter Cell games are pretty cool, but in terms of "stealth" it's hilarious. uh-oh sam, careful when you step on those crunchy rocks! Except, you can cheese though, but anyway--uh oh, be sure to shoot out the lights? No lights to shoot out? Awesome, just stand in a corner with a shadow in it and enemies will look straight at you and see nothing. "Whoo turned out da liiights?" Amazing. Total package, especially when you consider the story is complete grocery store checkout Clancy tactical mumbo jumbo bullshit. At least Michael Ironside sounds like he's asleep on all of his line reads. Definitely the superior game.

Metal Gear Solid 2
>Guards can hear you
>Guards can see you
>Guards know your last location and will sweep the room
>Guards radio for help, help arrives, and doesn't leave until caution phase ends
>Guards can see your footsteps of dirty, wet, or in snow
>Guards will wake sleeping or KO'd guards
>Guards will notice when others are missing and they will be replaced
>If a dead guard is found, alert phase begins and guard is replaced

Splinter Cell
>Guards have next-to-no situational awareness
>Guards can almost never hear you (watch out for the fucking gravel or whatever)
>Guards cannot see if there's even a suggestion of a shadow near Sam
>Guards never look up, but at least crawling on pipes or split-jumping is cool

Thief
>bonehead AI poses no threat whatsoever
>end of story

>>9036014
Because it petered out early in the PS2s lifespan. The Syphon Filter games are a total miracle on the PS1 considering that team had no idea what the fuck they were doing. Still, they did pull it off, but it's a slightly above-average third-person shooter, not a stealth game.

>>9036014
old fashioned overhead 2d aged better than a 5th gen tps with tank controls, and the story was generic network tv tier.

Someone stole my MGS2 copy :(\
Now I have MGS1 and MGS3 versions of the collectors trilogy edition.

Poor man's Tom clancy couldn't write a good stealth story. Agnes kaku triggering the fanboys will never be not awesome

>>9039663
Based

>>9039663
BASED AND REDPILLED

>>9039080
>Some pieces of loot can be as obtuse as a tiny ring on some random mound of dirt

>>9039663
The AI wasn't Thief's strongest aspect, but the stealth was far more authentic despite that.
>no mini-map showing you exactly where the guards are located and which direction they're looking
>you had to listen to the guard's footsteps and mumbling/whistling to figure out where they were
>even peeking out into a hallway would run the risk of you getting spotted (leaning around a corner doesn't make you invisible unlike it does in many other stealth games)
>you had to conceal yourself, either using the darkness or cover (even if you weren't entirely hidden behind cover, it would still reduce the chance you'd get spotted)
>different types of surfaces would generate more or less noise
>guards will notice dead bodies. it wasn't just MGS that had it
>guards become more likely to spot you in the darkness or react to noises if they've been alerted or had spotted you previously, forcing you to be more cautious
Meanwhile, MGS2 gave you a radar telling you exactly where the guards are and was even kind enough to show you their vision cones too, because apparently they all suffered from myopia and couldn't see you down a wide open and well lit hallway if you were running more than 10 metres away from them. And from what I remember, the sound mechanics weren't that impressive; either you were making no noise or a lot of noise. Although I admit the footprint mechanics were well done and I wish Thief had them too.

>>9041162
The vision cone is great because it gives information to the player as to where the enemies can see, and plan your moves accordingly. In Thief this is always very fuzzy, and involves a lot of trial and error. It's not that Thief's guards don't use cones or that their vision is realistic, the cones are simply invisible.

>>9033613
Damn how sad now it takes me so much depraved shit to get off anymore

>>9039663
All of the points on splinter cell is incorrect and every point on mgs also applies to splinter cell. This bait thread can’t even be convincing

>>9041367
>The vision cone is great because it gives information to the player as to where the enemies can see, and plan your moves accordingly
while this can be a good aspect it isn't necessarily the end all be all. A fuzzier representation of guard vision can incentivize caution and avoidance instead of just confidently running through every patrol pattern.

>>9041367
You have a gem that tells you how dark the area you're in is. You can hear guards coming. If you're directly behind a guard there's 100% chance he wont see you and there's never a situation where you have to chance the guards cone of vision. Yes you actually have to use your brain and not play the game like it's glorified pacman.

It just sounds like you spammed quicksaves without actually git'ing gud at the game.

>>9041878
When would you ever have to chance the guards cone of vision ever anyways? You're invisible in darkness. I can't tell if that other guy is blaming the game for being bad or if he straight up never played the game at all and is going off vague things he knows about it.

>>9041882
>glorified pacman
lmao i was thinking the exact same thing about MGS1 as i was reading this thread

>>9039669
The PSP games were great though

>>9041882
The guard's peripheral vision. It is not realistic so you can't use your real life knowledge to find its limit (like in every game), and the gamey vision cone isn't visible, so if you try to walk past a guard from the side, you have no consistent standard to measure whether he can see you or not. It's a matter of trial and error.

>>9041162
You do know that the radar could be turned off in the first two MGS games.

>>9042379
their peripheral vision is worse than their regular vision though, just like in real life. it's not like they will immediately sound the alarm unless you're really out in the open. usually they will just say something about rats. the only unrealistic thing about it is that they won't immediately turn their attention towards whatever it is they noticed in their peripheral vision.

metal gear is a james bond movie on vidya form not a steath game
sadly this kind of applies to hitman 3 as well

MGS is barely stealth

>>9044391
Compared to what?

>>9032106
mgs is not a great stealth serious, but still mgs 3 plays far better

>>9045074
>but still mgs 3 plays far better
it's more ambitious but I definitely wouldn't describe it as playing far better.

>>9045193
the free camera in subsistence alone makes a world of a difference

>>9039338
based
https://youtu.be/ZRAMh2mZbH0

>>9033613
Otacon has unique dialogue just for this. MGS3 has similar coom posters too.

>>9036371
>A 10 year old would still know who Mario is
Lol
Lmao
And the funniest (or saddest, really) part is that you yourself are in your late 20s, but try to posture as "le real boomer"

>>9032106
>>9032126
>>9032134
>>9033613

>>9047121
What do you even know about my age? When have I postured as a real boomer?

well because it's japanese it's beyond a stealth game it's a religion now