/vr/ - Retro Games

>>9003268
Nobody alive at that time will care anyways and I'll be long dead.

We'll have to emulate electrons moving through reality

I'm not too worried, a lot of crts were made in the early 2000s and were built to last.

>>9003268
Rebuild the tubes like they used to do in the 50s. They used to saw the electron guns off, install fresh ones, and reseal the tube in an oven.

We build our own

>>9003278
As long as you have a few as backup and know how to work on them, it will probably last a lifetime.

>>9003280
What about the phosphor? Wasn't that viable since you could also easily replace that thanks to it being monochrome, so you had no mask?

>>9003286
Correct. Bad phosphor would be scraped out and a new coating applied.

>>9003273
Big Ryan fan btw

>>9003293
But how? We don't have BW TVs anymore.

There used to be at least one company in France that would rebuild color tubes, mainly $10,000 broadcast monitors.

If theres enough demand for them and not enough supply, SOMEONE will figure out how to make bespoke gaming CRTs for like $1000

>>9003315
I'm not sure about that though it may be possible to rebuild bad tubes.

>>9003315
If that were to happen, they'd probably keep to the most used sizes in the arcade world. On another note, I for one would love a 120 Hz CRT that does both raster and vector (2x60Hz Channels)

>>9003268
nothing we will all be dead by then and wont give a fuck

>>9003323
The one thing I always wondered: how did they print the phosphors in color TV. I know about the masks but I cannot find anything on how they printed the 3 different chemicals.

We won't see that day.
And I think people would just be happy to have water or not live under a dystopian dictature by then. CRTs or retro displays will sadly not be something people will be able to worry about.

>>9003341
They'd use a machine with a shitton of tiny injector hoses that squirts the phosphor dots onto the glass.

>>9003348
Is there a pic of such a machine available? I know the face was then bonded to the rest of the tube after the installation of the phosphors and mask so such a machine might look like some strange plotter.

>>9003268
Why is there no such thing as modern CRT TVs? Imagine one where you could plug either RCA, VGA or HDMI cables. The niche market is definitely here. Is it just not worth to produce them?

>>9003343
OK doomer

>>9003383
>>8978836

There's a variety of speculative answers to that question, most of them covered in here.

>>9003383
>Is it just not worth to produce them?
No. The amount of people that want an X-ray machine pointed right at their face when there are good alternatives available is actually quite low.

>>9003383
Not worth it. Not many people would buy them, and the transport cost would be ridiculously high.
No one in their right mind would waste money investing in a crt factory.

>>9003395
>>9003391
idk it wasn't apparently a problem from the 1940s until the 90s. unless you're saying people were stupider back then.

>>9003391
>an X-ray machine
No.

>>9003410
Well, yes, if you didn't use lead or boron glass, hence why your grannies (or great-grannies, for zoomers) told you sitting too close would get you cataracts/blind.

The problem with CRTs versus vinyl records or cassette tapes is that there's not one CRT. I mean, a vinyl record is pretty much a vinyl record. But there are a million and one possible variations of CRT and every manufacturer had their own unique way of doing it.

>>9003429
same with the many record or tape players, though.

>>9003315
By the time the last CRTs die, nobody will give a shit.

>>9003383
CRTs are difficult to manufacture. they are gigantic evacuated glass boxes with electrodes threaded through. alternatives have made them largely obsolete, and when there isn't an alternative (i.e. lightguns), modern tech offers alternatives that require a CRT.

>>9003383
If you can get a top end CRT for 200 bucks, nobody is going to create one that would cost 2000 bucks (probably more for low number production) to even come even.

>>9003430
A record player is a record player is a record player, variations between them are minor. With CRTs you can have innumerable variations in size, electron gun placement, tube angle, phosphor dot sizes and shapes, types of phosphors used, types of shadow masks used. Need I go on.

>>9003436
they are electronically interesting. not that anyone gives a shit about how what they use works anymore.

>>9003405
It was a pretty big problem from the 40's to the 70's though, only in the 80's shit was done about it. Late 80's to early 2000's CRTs don't suffer from the same radiation leakage thanks to that.

>>9003429
There's basically 3 big ones and different manufacturers could have small twists on it for patent or cost reasons.
But Shadow Mask, Slot Mask and Aperture Grille cover 99.9% of all CRTs, except monochrome, those didn't have any of that.

>>9003442
There's really no point in making a 15kHz CRT with more than 600 TVL or a VGA CRT with bigger than .24mm pitch. That leave a couple options, outside of >>9003446

>>9003442
record players can be just as varied as tvs in design and implementation.

>>9003429
>a vinyl record is pretty much a vinyl record.
and an NTSC signal is pretty much an NTSC signal

>>9003383
Like another anons mentioned, there's no real market for it in the modern age to make it worthwhile. When you consider the costs of transportation, the costs of labor and parts, the amount of space they take up, how heavy the larger models are, and the amount of people giving them away for free on Craigslist, it just isn't worth it.
Why bother investing that much time and money into a product with little appeal when tons of people will probably buy a cheap 720p TV from Walmart that probably cost peanuts to make?

>>9003383
Basically the only marked you'd have is big cities in the USA. Even then you'd have to compete with PVMs, that are probably better quality than you can produce, meanwhile they are half the price even NOS, compared to what you could manufacture reasonably from zero.

Shaders.

>>9003268
Well, they won't.
People who actually want them to continue to function, will find people who know how to make that happen. Other people will just fuck off.

>>9003383
It costs millions to start up a fucking McDonald's restaurant. You have any idea how much it'd cost to start up production of even shitty low-end CRTs?
Damn things would have to cost hundreds of thousand each if not more to ever be profitable

>>9003268
I hope high resolution, curved screens with super HDR and black frame insertion exist and can emulate the effect of CRTs perfectly and enough people care to make it a reality.

>>9003472
>>9003484
>>9003505

>>9003390
Ah yes the anti-CRT samefag from that other thread.

>>9003268
We get to rejoice in no more shit tier CRT threads

>>9003513
What other thread and why am I anti-CRT for discussing this? I have and use several CRTs.

>>9003280
Cool. Ever do it by yourself without someone else's machinery?

>>9003268
I personally agree with >>9003280. Once the CRTs all break I think we'll just survive by creating new electron guns and rebuilding the tubes until there are no more tubes to rebuild. But by then we'll probably either have accurate CRT emulation or the world will have far more important things to do than reinventing 20th century tech.

>>9003280
This stopped being done in the 70s once solid state TVs were the norm and it was just cheaper to buy a new one. Vacuum tube era TV sets were really fucking expensive adjusted for inflation so repairs on them were much more common, in fact an entire cottage industry.

>>9003553
>But by then we'll probably either have accurate CRT emulation
We already have accurate CRT emulation. The reason any of you don't think we do is because you haven't seen it properly done on a 4K OLED screen. Add in the fact that there are so many different variations of CRT specifications, slot masks, etc, that you've probably seen one filter, thought it looked "wrong", and dismissed the whole thing without looking at the tons of other filters that might more "accurately" emulate the style of CRT that blows your whistle.

>>9003505
all I hear are examples of capitalism's failings.

>>9003589
I have, I have a 4k OLED TV. Non-rolling-scan just doesn't look right even when it looks very close, 8k and higher refresh displays plus strobing will help it further of course, but were not at a point where we have even visually 100% accurate CRT, no matter if it's slow, shadow mask or aperture grille.

Also doesn't fix latency and motion issues. It's close but it won't be the same for a long time.

Is it a problem for most people? Of course not, but if you have the option to use a real CRT instead for free, why shouldn't you? Even emulation is better on a real CRT instead of having to use a panel.

>>9003615
>if it's slow
slot*

Everyone has forgotten and nobody cares, hence why there's no working ones around anymore.

>>9003589
>emulating crt on led Flat screen
That's like fucking a ladyboy and calling yourself straight while your dicks up his hairy Thai ass

>>9003589
>>9003615
OLEDs aren't perfect for CRT simulation, either. To properly emulate a CRT's mask, you need it to be at full strength without clipping on brighter colors, and that dims the overall image, reducing light output by as much as 75% or more depending on the mask type being emulated, and as of right now, OLEDs just don't get bright enough to be able to offset this brightness loss. Add strobing to approximate a CRT's motion clarity, and you may as well be playing with shades on. And let's also not forget they use an extra white subpixel precisely to help deal with the lack of brightness, so mask accuracy goes out the window regardless. And the new QD-OLED panels have a weird dot triad-style subpixel pattern, which might only work well for emulating shadow masks, but I won't speculate further without more feedback from early adopters.

>>9003626

>>9003513
keep being delusional.
also im so anti-crt i have 3 of them in my fucking appartment.

We get set free. Life will go on.

>>9003405
In the 40s-90s there were lots of peoples interested in crts, so there were factories everywhere.
Nowadays you open a factory, you only get a few clients close to you. If you want to ship them to further away clients you can, but the shipping would be more expensive than the crt itself.
Maybe an hobbyist could start a small production of botique crts, but for a factory there is no way to get a ROI nowadays.

LED technology will eventually outclass CRT in colour accuracy, motion clairty, and blacks and at a higher resolution. We're already mostly there with QD-OLED but they cost like $5000 a unit now.

>>9003268
I'm not a CRT guy, but we've seen a lot of solid home fabrication stuff grow out in the last decade. Might reach a point where it gets conceivable that people can do custom CRTs. I talk to guy who does custom tube amps. Very cool stuff.

>>9003910
Yeah but he's not making the literal tubes, those are still manufactured.

>>9003442
You are dumb

>>9003609
You'd get laughed out of the room trying to convince the politburo to restart CRT production too. Unless you have some sort of gamerocracy it isn't happening.

>>9003864
You need to be pretty delusional to think current OLED TVs don't do all of those things already.

>>9003268
what is already happening lol

>>9003268
oh ya know

>>9003996
They are. Though, as small scale fabrication improves I wonder if it will become more feasible. It's been really interesting to see how much cottage industries have popped up for mechanical stuff. I admit it's more complicated though.
I look at increased custom runs of chips, with factories now existing where people can do relatively small runs of specific chip-sets and wonder if that might extend further at some point. I don't know.

>>9003268
A:the world will end

>>9003996
>>9004064
Tubes (as in valves) are easy to make compared to actually big CRTs.

>>9003268
another Concerned Ape will show up.

>>9003442
Try mixing some records on a set of 1210's and then try a cheaper alternative turntable, you will notice a big difference!

>>9003383
>Why is there no such thing as modern CRT TVs?
Because people want brighter, clearer, and flatter screens.

>>9003513
Take your meds you schizo. I love CRTs but there's no way in hell that they'd ever make more of them.

>>9003636
Oleds don't need strobing

>>9004260
Are they not sample-and-hold displays still?

>>9004260
They do to reduce motion blur, but even without they are pretty damn good already. CRT autists will always screech about it but for majority of people it will be unnoticeable for the naked eye on a decent OLED panel.

>>9004064
>I look at increased custom runs of chips, with factories now existing where people can do relatively small runs of specific chip-sets and

>>8995272
that's the dream. to be able to make new SIDs.

>>9003273
Kek. When you understand basic particle physics you realize how funny this statement was.

>>9004109
>>9004064
Making DIY monochrome CRTs isn't that difficult, color ones though? Fucking impossible.

>>9003589
>>9003615
>>9003636
100% replicating a CRT TV is pretty much just an exercise in autism, and is impossible anyway. Light scanlines, some color bleed, and a composite filter is all you need to replicate the tricks devs would use when creating pixel art. The main issue is stuff like black levels and motion clarity which really has nothing to do with resolution.
OLEDs do get the closest. With HDR you can more than compensate for the scanlines and strobing. I personally think that's a waste, but there you have it.

Shaders and monitors will be better by then, or we'll start manufacturing them if demand is high enough. I expect some very rich 4channers to emerge in the coming decades

>>9004367
Technically a good enough theoretical panel which we might one day have, could emulate something similar to rolling scan.

>>9003268
>What's going to happen when all CRTs inevitably stop working?
People who like CRTs will say "oh, damn..." and be sad while installing the highest-quality CRT filter they can find for their emulators.

>>9003268
the good thing about CRT's is that they can be repaired most of the time with a simple capacitor replacement or reflowing of solder

>>9003268
We'll have 16K 1000hz MicroLED displays with CRT shaders by then.

its he way music was meant to be heard boyss... in my day these were everywhere and they didnt break... we had leftovers... and its the way it was MEANT TO BE heard

>>9004786
no it wasn't
music is a live creation, so it is meant to be heard as clear as it is live
240p/480i games were made to be viewed on CRT's

>>9004792
no... no... you see, musicians bac in those days had REAL instruments and they prorammed their songs to be heard on wax tubes. SONGS, and music, recorded music, was designed to work on that machine and that machine only. you can play it on a new record player or digital computer, but it isnt how it was intended.

>>9004804
They played the instruments live anon

>>9004663
the electron guns and phosphors do eventually run out of juice if used enough

>>9003343
Something is wrong with you.

>>9003268
8-10k curved oled displays with inbuilt scanline filters, static electricity generator, and internal speaker dedicated to approximating the power-on twang and high pitched frequency generated by traditional CRTs. The case will be made in various shapes and sizes, mimicking tube sets of yor, with the majority of interior space remaining empty apart from the 30-100lb weights bolted to the base.

>>9003383
Infrastructure for glassmaking, acid etching, and pulling vacuums is way to expensive for a hiche hobby. Though I wonder if a display made with laser pointers, special optics, and superfast mirrors could be used to replicate the CRT feel.

>>9005025
You can get lead glass and glass blowing kits. Making the tube itself is not a big deal if you have some practice with that. Other stuff like applying phosphor and sealing the tube is more involved. But I think you could at least make a monochrome CRT in your garage. You'd never be able to make a color one that way because of the phosphor and shadow mask presenting too much of a problem to deal with.

>>9004346
sample and hold is the cause of the majority of motion blur on flat panels, not response time (at least not anymore)
that's the reason why people who've used a CRT in the last decade complain about flat panels, because without black frame insertion, even OLEDs with *real* 1 ms response time look blurry in motion.

>>9005046
Response time is seriously not an issue on anything made after roughly 2008. That was solved early on. Sample and hold blur is a problem but black frame insertion would be able to fix that.

>>9005046
okay idk why I have to explain this to you but an LED doesn't really have a response time. It turns off when it turns off and it turns on when it turns on. The pixels are made of LEDs.

Get an OLED with latest firmware update reducing the input lag to unnoticeable. Adjust the picture settings for best quality and HDR. Have the scanlines software generated. OLEDs are superior in image quality to BVMs according to owners of both.
Some emulators are achieving better response times than original hardware over software.
Picrel low quality shot.

an old shitty beat up piece of shit crt from the 90s will last longer than that brand new flat panel you just bought last week which will probably need to be replaced due to some unfixable problem within the next 4 or 5 years and will likely develop some burn in within the first year

>>9005051
>Response time is seriously not an issue on anything made after roughly 2008
that's not even true; OLEDs and modern (as in, the past 5 years or so) LCDs have eliminated response time as a major issue, but there are still panels that suck dick in that regard for one reason or another.
https://www.rtings.com/monitor/tests/motion/motion-blur-and-response-time
>>9005097
it's still called a response time; yes, i know how LCDs work and why that technology has response time issues, but the phosphors of an OLED are still "responding" and it isn't instantaneous.

>>9004358
NTA but Monte Carlos for particle physics have been a thing for quite a while.
You won't be able to run them in real time though.

>>9003280
>install fresh ones

>>9005025
>superfast mirrors

>>9003341
>>9003348
>how did they print the phosphors
Photoresist process using each tubes shadow mask
https://youtu.be/7IrSLPVkxCo?t=360

There's going to just be one running in a museum somewhere. It'll get dimmer and dimmer and they'll restrict the viewing hours and only run it a few days a year. Then it'll start missing those days due to issues. They will put it on display not running and they'll have a black and white tube made by some artist next to it so people can see approximately what it looked like.

If only these were still available.

>>9005432
It's so hard to tell what this even does from the pics

>>9005463
It literally says right there
It makes profit

>>9003391
I cnt believe zoomers are really this retarded.

>>9003268
I bought a retrotink 5 x pro im never looking back

I'm more worried about how many people will be around to fix them. I've seen first hand how many people my age didn't know that you need a screwdriver to remove the PS5's stand so I can't imagine there's anyone my age looking to working on something that could possibly kill them (plus big figures of the community not being comfortable with sharing information on how to fix them doesn't help)

Is there any company in this world that still produces plain, simple CRTs?

>>9003268
Nothing. You just won’t use them anymore.

>>9003268
Right now we are at the point where we can chuck the old cheap circuit boards and replace them with a modern high quality variant. If someone can make new tubes we can make new CRTs right now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6l6mUYQhgSU

>>9003429
>a vinyl record is pretty much a vinyl record
LMAO no
You are absolutely clueless

>>9003589
>>9003615
>>9003636
So here's the breakdown for what needs to happen to emulate CRTs

>8K to 10K resolution or higher MicroLED to properly emulate shaders ala Sony Megatron shader at full strength
>High brightness to use BFI/Strobing
>Zero input lag if good electronics are used ala Zisworks LCD

HARD MODE
>8K/10K resolution at 1000hz uncompressed(this requires a shit ton of bandwidth) to simulate CRT Phosphor Fade granularity so you have slower fall times(255-0 transitions from fading to black would be more gradual like in CRT leading to phosphor trails and more motion blur but at the benefit of less harsh flicker)

The CRT phosphor fade emulation combined with high resolution shaders will be the toughest to emulate since the bandwidth for 8K/10K at 1000hz uncompressed is just so fucking high that even DisplayPort 2.0(which is hardly supported at present) doesn't come close.

>>9004367
>and is impossible anyway
It's not impossible at all.
In fact the shaders for them are pretty much done(Sony Megatron in particular) and now we're just waiting for technology(MicroLED and absurd bandwidth HDMI/DisplayPort cables) to catch up.

>>9003864
LED technology already outclasses CRT
But the caveat is that it's not on the consumer space
Don't confuse LED with LED backlit LCD

>>9003268
Just do what I already do
Use filters lmao

>>9005763
He literally said OLED

>>9005718
the whole problem is so many variations of tubes as some anon said earlier. a computer monitor does not use the same type of CRT as a TV set.

>>9005937
There's probably not that many. I guarantee you the CRT used in a PC monitor and a TV are the same thing outside the former having a finer pitch shadow mask and phosphor dots.

a 90° curve edged CRT like in the OP pic is the best form factor and gives the most retro "aesthetic." i used to have a Proscan 27" when i was a kid. it was a good TV but not necessarily the best aesthetically because it had square edges and relatively large thick scanlines. also like all larger TVs it had a 100° tube that blurred around the edges.

>>9005937
The biggest market for replacement CRTs is arcade operators since those get used the hardest and are in most need of replacement.

>>9005968
I don't care about "aesthetic", I care about CRTs properties for /vr/.

>>9005937
That open source project technically can work with any crt tube regardless of origin as long as you still have the neck board. You would have to be very careful changing the settings since the project lets you put your settings far higher than what the crt boards would let you set. The project has plans on having a sort of settings system where people can tune the board to a specific tube, and then upload those settings online for others to use as a baseline.

>>9003315
I dun work liek that, where's the Tesla battery for 5k? CRT's are dead, we just have to hope for a better tech than than the garbage LCD we have that is still flawed till this day.

>>9005981
There's already LCD replacements for arcade cabinets, by the time last CRTs die, all arcades will have been converted anyways and the owners don't give a shit since LCD conversions are cheap and they will be a generation that already grew up without CRTs.

>>9005984
That was exactly what I was getting at, moron.

>>9006003
>There's already LCD replacements for arcade cabinets
Yes and they're utter crap and no substitute for a CRT.

>the idea of using a laggy TFT panel to play Street Fighter.

>>9006010
Nothing you can do about it.

>>9006003
Cant do that for any lightgun cabinets. Arcade owners will go out and grab any consumer tube and install them before relying on LCD screens

>>9003268
Retro Tech will make bank.

Can you guys fuck off to /g/ or anywhere else but here if you don't have anything to say about video games

As I said, the typical retrofag doesn't use his CRTs all that much maybe an hour or two once a week but arcade cabs get used hard and screen burn is a fact of life with them. So being able to replace the tubes in those is very important and LCDs will not suffice for the typical arcade game where precision response time is necessary.

>>9003268
Hobbyists have kept alive CRTs that date back as far as 1932.

>>9006035
>>9006003
>>9006063
Gotta love the angry resident anti-CRT autist

>>9006240
gotta love the idiot that thinks crt production is ever coming back.

>>9006240
I'm not anti-CRT, I have several CRTs. I just hate retarded shitposting.
Of course arcades look better on CRT, but the fact is, there won't be newly produced replacements tubes, no matter how much you shitpost about it.

Why are you so insecure about a fucking glass tube? I love them but damn I'm not a fucking insecure faggot about them and stay realistic.

>>9006250
I don’t, in fact I told OP he was dreaming
Doesn’t change the fact that you’re an angry autist that hates them in every tread discussion

OLED with proper emulation will replace CRT.
It's the only emissive light display technology since CRTs and with a high enough resolution you can emulate the way a CRT looks.

so i think we might be able to eventually make diy CRTs in our basement, but probably only monochrome tubes I don't think color is possible

>>9006283
Mate, unless you know how to shape glass perfectly and create an electron gun in a yoke with an aligned magnetic pull
You ain’t doing shit

i agree with the earlier point about arcade monitors and that trying to play fast games on a TFT panel is ass and AIDS

>>9006268
You literally replied to at least two difference people in >>9006240
, are you okay?

>>9003268
crts will outlive LED tvs

>>9003268
Everyone here will be long dead before a vast majority of CRTs stop working.

>>9006396
Both will be gone in 50-100 years.

>>9006398
Well no not really. An average tube is good for about 20,000-30,000 hours of use and that assumes it wasn't already used quite a bit before you got it. Plus some tubes especially low end TVs and monitors have thinner emissive coating that gets exhausted faster. And then factor in morons running the thing at 90% brightness/contrast which may reduce its lifespan to about 10,000 hours.

i've had PC monitors that got used up and the picture dimmed so i'm aware CRTs very much do have a finite lifespan

>>9004663
anons like this really don't know how a CRT works and that it's kind of like a car tire. the treads get worn down with enough use

LEDs also dim with time because the phosphor coating in them wears out but it's much much longer than the lifespan of a CRT electron gun

>>9006423
I have several excellent condition CRTs (some NOS) left in my basement (properly stored) when I die, probably in the next 40 years.
I have dozens and I know I won't use them all up, even though I use them daily, I have several in use now.

>An average tube is good for about 20,000-30,000 hours
>morons running the thing at 90% brightness/contrast which may reduce its lifespan to about 10,000 hours.
I've had CRT monitors with 50k that still were good enough for /vr/, just require to be calibrated and maintained again.

>>9006441
That's irrelevant, since by then the standard will be OLED and microLED and LED LCD panels are also still being manufactured and will be for a couple decades at least.

>>9006434
I heard that PC monitors in general don't last as long as TVs and there's probably a number of reasons for that.

>>9006441
I have a radio/clock from 2000 that's been plugged in most of the time since it was new. the LED panel has dimmed a little but it's not that bad and it could easily last another 20 years.

so i have one CRT at the moment, an RCA 13" from 2002 that i got from Goodwill a while ago. yeah first time I powered it on I found the brightness/contrast was 90%. i immediately set it to 50%. it's plenty bright at that setting.

>>9006465
A lot of TVs would have 90% as the default brightness setting because it would look better in store displays and the majority of stupid people never adjusted their TVs from that.

>>9006452
Usually it's the other way around though.
There's nothing weird for either dimming after being used for years.
Even 30k hours is less than 4 years of continuous usage, realistically 16 years is what you'd actually use it for to get those hours, if it's your main monitor or TV (then possibly even less).

>>9006452
https://ithardwarehub.com/part-no-d1028l-dell-17-inch-crt-monitor/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIqKCyg_Sq-AIVOMmUCR1q5A0kEAQYBSABEgKNR_D_BwE

I had one like this. It dimmed like fuck after a few years.

>>9006486
Nothing weird. Specially for a cheap tube.

But I also had a 14" ADI Microscan from 1994 that was used hard for a decade. I eventually retired it because the capacitor in the flyback developed a short but the tube was still in great shape and hadn't dimmed at all. It didn't have burn in either while that Dell monitor had the Windows 98 taskbar burned into it.

>>9006452
PC monitors often used cheaper tubes because they weren't expected to last more than a few years (just long enough to last until you upgraded to a new PC) and computer graphics may be more stressful on the tube--more areas of continuous flat color, more bright areas, etc. While a TV tube is not stressed as much because TV images are lower contrast and change more often as opposed to displaying a static image for hours.

>>9003513
literal retard

>>9006501
What are you talking about, VGA CRT and CRT TV tubes are quite different. VGA CRT tubes were always more expensive to manufacture, even if they were half the size.

>>9006423
As one other variable, some manufacturers would deliberately run the heating elements hotter to increase the brightness of the picture, but it would have the lifespan of the tube.

>>9003268
Nothing much, CRT autist will switch from posting zoomed in pictures of CRT monitors to posting zoomed in pictures of LCDs with CRT shaders and people will brag about owning expensive scalers instead of rare CRTs.

>>9006509
I'm pretty sure the same thing pretty much except the fineness of the phosphor dots and shadow mask.

>have production line of tubes
>assign half of them to TV use and the other half to computer use
>the ones assigned to computers would just be given more fine pitch phosphor dots and masks

how is microLED doing these days and would be any good at emulating CRTs?

>>9006519
They're already doing that.

>>9006595
Yeah, but there's still a split between shader fags and CRT fags, I was implying the CRT fags will just migrate to the former group.

>>9006521
No, VGA CRTs are far finer tolerances than TV tubes, even when compared to PVMs.
Trinitron VGA CRT tube costs a lot more to manufacture than a bigger Trinitron PVM tube.

>have production line of tubes
>assign half of them to TV use and the other half to computer use
>the ones assigned to computers would just be given more fine pitch phosphor dots and masks
Nope, not that simple and not how it works.
Yes they have different maks/slots/aperture and phosphor layout/density, but they aren't manufactured like that.

Everything is higher tolerance in a VGA CRT, since you need a perfect picture, TVs usually are way off, even with proper calibration, hence why so many are "as good as it gets" even when calibrated by professionals and being high end TVs/PVMs. That also applies to factory calibration, which additionally is extra costs.
Even materials and binning is difference, you can't have as many impurities in VGA CRTs compared to TV, since you'll be looking at it from closer.

>>9003268
Some of the first ones ever made still work. I have a piece of test equipment from the 1930's with a CRT that works perfectly.

There are companies which will restore tubes, too. Nothing to worry about.

We'll finally have peace.

>>9006725
B/W CRTs were much simpler though and could also be easily manufactured at home even now

>>9006745
That might be beneficial to vintage Mac collectors, but not for most other people.

>>9006725
And lylno there's nobody who does that anymore. Even when there were they consisted either of A. Outfits that rebuilt $10,000 broadcast monitors and B. Boomer hobbyists who restored CRTs from 1950s TVs which were all black-and-white and easy to work on compared to a color tube.

9005968
That Proscan lasted 15 years before the tube started to give up. That was used _hard_. Of course that was also a high end set with higher quality electron guns that used thicker emissive coating than shitty RF-only junk TVs. I don't bet you'd get a Korean TV to last that long.

as others have said, 30,000 hours would mean you ran the CRT continuously every day for 16 years without powering it off. even then that's not the total lifespan of the tube but merely how long it will take to drop to half brightness. only arcade machines and surveillance monitors ever get that kind of use.

>>9007191
>as others have said, 30,000 hours would mean you ran the CRT continuously every day for 16 years without powering it off.
No, 3 and a half years.

>>9007191
You can double that by parking the brightness/contrast at 50%.

>>9007191
another trick they did in the 50s-60s was zapping the emissive coating to blow off burned out areas of it and expose fresh material underneath. one reason for this was that sometimes pieces of coating would get loose and cause one of the guns to develop a short and not work, so the "rejuvenation" procedure would get rid of this debris.

also as you probably know, red guns nearly always crap out before the blue and green ones because they need higher heater temperature (red phosphor takes more energy to illuminate).

>>9007203
>>9007215
It's not 16 years. I guess nobody actually read what was written in that post.
30k hours continuously is 3 and a half years.

>>9007203
That's what the 60k hours was about. At 30k it's normal to see losses, no matter what. At 60k you will have losses, no matter what.
See >>9006445
>I've had CRT monitors with 50k that still were good enough for /vr/, just require to be calibrated and maintained again.

>>9007215
You sure you don't mean CRT rejuvenation with blowing clean the electron gun? Unless you meant the gun, since saying "emissive coating" makes me think you're talking about the phosphor coating, since that's light emissive when hit by the electron beam.
But I woudn't expect much from someone who thinks 30k hours is continuously running for 16 years.

>>9007231
The emissive coating on the gun of course.

CRTniggers should be lined against a wall and shot. i'm typing this on a flat panel monitor that is from 2011 has been used nearly every day since then and the picture is exactly the same as it was when it was new. if this was a CRT the tube would be shot and probably have visible screen burn by now.

>>9007246
I agree CRTs are of relatively little benefit for browsing the Web and also incompatible with modern computer usage patterns.

>>9003268
This stupid zoomer meme will end

>>9007235
Got it, that can help and sometimes it does, but if you have worn phosphor coating or burn it, it isn't a universal fix. Even in the best case it just buys you time and increases the failure rate.

>>9007246
How is this related to /vr/?

>>9007286
>>9007231
nobody did stuff like that after the vacuum tube era

I agree the only fix for a shot electron gun is to replace or recoat it. Still won't fix screen burn though.

>>9007291
People still do it to rejuvenate dim CRTs.

>>9007291
TVs got cheap enough so it wasn't worth it and also in the vacuum tube era most sets were B&W which is way easier to work on than color tubes.

>>9007314
I have a dim iMac g3. Any chance of rejouvinating it? It's not super shit yet, but it's still a bit too dark for my liking.

>>9007360
Try G2 adjustments first.

>>9007250
>incompatible with modern computer usage patterns
?

>>9003268
Who gives a shit.

>>9007450
I.e. you'll have a better time with a decent panel than a CRT for everyday PC usage today

>>9003268
You'll be dead before that happens so it doesn't matter. There will always be one sitting somewhere not being used or particularly damaged by it's environment. It's not a piece of notebook paper or something.

>>9003268
Eh

>>9007446
Kk.
I got it from a guy who rebuilds macs for sale so I assume he checked that already. But who knows. I'll give it a whirl.

>>9006268
please tell me how i hate crt when i use them and recommend theyre use for vr ?
you just seem like an idiot wishing for crt to come back like it was impossible to get one for cheap.

>>9007551
Don't overdo it tho, just a notch

>>9007560
How many degrees is a notch?

>>9007580
about tree fiddy
just try and see, set the tube to med brightness and contrast, put on a gamma test image, see if you can improve it without turning the backest parts gray

>>9006423
This is a rough average, incidentally. Different CRTs vary in their durability but usually cheaper tubes have thinner emissive coating and don't last as long, and probably it's worse for PC monitors as their expected service life is shorter than a TV's is.

>>9007714
The Proscan we had, I'm sure we put something closer to 40,000-50,000 hours on it as it was used basically every day from 1994 to 2009 and the tube only started to dim in the last year or so of that. I can't guarantee all CRTs are made as well as that one was.

>>9006434
>anons like this really don't know how a CRT works
>most of the time
kindly fuck off

An old clip about what OLEDs got to offer. Newer models maybe way better

https://youtu.be/KwE78lajIuY

It's not like it's some lost technology. There is just no demand for creating new ones when they are absolutely everywhere still

>>9007714
That's a good average for a decent tube from my experience. Higher end Trinitron, etc. It's easy since those measure hours of use.
Hence why I said 30k is wear and at 50k you can still get use out of them if you properly recalibrate them.

>>9007772
Thomson usually had pretty good tubes, their TVs had a lot of flaky solder joints but the tubes were quite dependable and would last a long time.

>>9003268
I'll be happy because then all the insufferable MUH ORIJINUL HARDWARE faggots will die off.
And the great thing is they'll have never touched a vagina either so they won't pass on their mental illness to any offspring.

i do agree my experience with PC monitors is the CRTs don't last as long as TV tubes

>>9008935
>not emulating with a crt tv
lol

>>9009139
Because it’s higher frequency and runs faster

>>9010025
The resolution has nothing to do with it. As anon said, PC monitors likely had thinner emissive coating on the the electron guns because they were designed for a 3-5 year operating life while a TV could last 10-15 years. The monitor only had to last long enough for you to upgrade to a new PC.

>>9010071
It’s not the resolution it’s the doubling of the kHz, higher frequency of power equals faster degradation

as proof monitors from the 80s like IBM 5153s hold up better than most Windows 9x era monitors because they're only running at 15Khz and not being asked to display 1024x768 resolution. CRTniggers don't stop and consider that, but a big problem with CRTs from a technical standpoint is that they're stressed by the demands of a modern PC display and fail in a relatively short time. it was vitally important to switch PC monitors to flat panels both because of this and to eliminate burn in and eye strain.

a similar problem was held with floppy disks. the more capacity you put on them, the less reliable they became. the lower density 5.25" disks used on Apple II and C64 were reliable, but everyone knows how shitty 1.44MB 3.5" disks were.

>>9003268
ocean will be full of TVs

>>9010294
This is true and to an extent there was also some cheapening of PC monitors by the late 90s to lower prices. A color monitor in the 80s was like $600-$700 despite a lot of the time just using a bog-standard TV tube.

CRTs are trash and look trash. I sell old TVs on Facebook and eBay and the people that buy them are all fat with neckbeards or scrawny looking dorks. You idiots buy anything lol

>>9010604

>>9003268
then I'll finally be free of this curse of caring about screen alignment

>>9003273
I raise muh glass to that, fellow big ryan fan, HIYAH!

>>9010071
>PC monitors likely had thinner emissive coating on the the electron guns because they were designed for a 3-5 year operating life while a TV could last 10-15 years
That's completely wrong though.
Otherwise post proof. People in this very thread talk about 60k hours on VGA CRTs.

PC CRTs used totally different phosphors that reacted faster.

>>9010313
Good PC CRT monitors cost as much and a great PC CRT monitor cost much more than that in the late 90's.

>>9010294
Do they though? Most of my monochrome screens have burn in, even ones that were only used 4-5 years.
Better example would have been 15kHz color RGB monitors for microcomputers of the 80's.

>>9011721
>Most of my monochrome screens have burn in, even ones that were only used 4-5 years
no shit they do, there's no shadow mask so the phosphor is directly exposed to the electron beam.

>>9011737
Tell that to >>9010294
I already know that.

I have an IBM 5151 that somehow has no screen burn.

>>9003268
fix them obviously

>>9005862
OLED =/= LED

>>9003273
MUH

>>9011714
>PC CRTs used totally different phosphors that reacted faster.
I tried simulating interlacing through a shader on my PC CRT through a shader once, and it seemed more flickery than my WEGA's actual interlacing. Think that had something to do with it?

>>9003383
Because the economy in the United States is screwed since we have to rely on other countries to build our stuff cheaper and because our own product output sucks. If our domestic manufacturing capabilities became better, then we wouldn't have issues making new CRT TVs. It's also a niche. That is the general answer.

>>9003268
You mean in the year 2122? I don't know. We'll probably be 3D Printing OLED CRT Equivalents.

>>9003343
Wrong. We will win. Retro videogames.

>>9012252
Try 60Hz on a PC CRT and put a TV that runs at 60Hz next to it. You'll see which one flickers more.

PC CRTs need to react faster so they trail/ghost less, meanwhile TVs always run at 60Hz, so to not make your brain hammer after watching it for 20 minutes, the phosphors react slower to reduce flicker.
There 100Hz TVs for example ran at 100Hz to reduce that problem even when showing 24/30/50/60 FPS content to reduce that problem, that had it's own problems though but you need to "innovate" for marketing reasons.

First step for CRTs comeback is replacing glass with a carbon based lighter material dramatically reducing its production and shipping costs.
Make sure it takes RGB and offer big screen 27incher and up options along with around $999 price tags.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hfm1rtI-5Sk&list=WL&index=80

>>9012548
>lets make high voltage shit out of carbon
Wew

>>9012548
I think the TV industry could have worked towards cheaper, lighter-weight CRTs if they wanted to and didn't instead build lazy, shitty TFT panels.

>>9012559
You had to start somewhere to get where we are now.
Nobody in their right mind would say CRTs are better for non-/vr/ or non-old media.