/vr/ - Retro Games

no games

>Why
lol
>I never
lmao

>>8981342
It didn't fail. Sega quit.

>>8981342
Wasn't a failure, on track to be a clear 2nd place win with how the momentum of the generation was going (dreamcast did half the sales of the other 2 losers in 1/3rd of the time.) Sega literally ran out of money.

Sega just didn't have the money to keep it going.
>Wasn't it basically identical in power to PS2 except with better textures
lmao not even close, better textures is about the only thing it does better than PS2.

The thing you have to understand is that the dreamcast didn't fail in a vacuum, but it needed to be successful enough to make up for like 3 other failed consoles and it just wasn't.

>only one analog stick
>discs are tiny compared to DVDs
Really it's closer to a PSP in terms of power and functionality than to the PS2

>>8981413
I call it gen 5.5. Too weak compared to PS2, GC and Xbox (plus it died before the Xbox or Cube were even launched), but too powerful against the N64 and PS1.

>>8981413
PSP seemed to handle Power Stone and Crazy Taxi all right.

>>8981413
The dc's GD-ROM and GC's mini-dvds had near identical storage capacity.

>>8981396
Well, and also after the shitty way Sega handled the CD, 32x, and Saturn, devs and consumers weren't crazy about gambling on the Dreamcast.
It's easy to look back and say "Sega didn't fuck it up" but in the moment where you were a kid and likely only going to get one console from the current generation, would you ask for a Sega console knowing the PS2 was on the horizon?

>>8981440
A dual layered UMD can actually hold a little more.

>>8981342
>purchased a PS2 just to play DVDs, that's just a meme

not tru most people waited for the ps2 for the added benefit of also having a dvd player, thats one reason why they were more popular than the DC + GC.

its like buying a ps3 for the added benefit of blurays, bluray players r stil like £200

>>8981462
The difference is
>PS2 had a killer library after a year while PS3 was DOA until 2009ish
>People actually wanted a DVD player while nobody cares about blu ray
>PS2 was affordable and PS3 was $500+

>>8981342
How Sega could've lived:

>ride off the Genesis' success and go all in on the add-ons meme: make 32XCD games and release a stand-alone system that combines all 3 internally to play them on for the people who didn't yet own a Genesis, then launch the 3dfx-powered Dreamcast instead of PowerVR for easier porting from/to computers; skipping the Saturn thus saves the company from having to declare bankruptcy and they still make great games to this day rather than garbage

>>8981517
lolno

>>8981468
>>PS2 had a killer library after a year while PS3 was DOA until 2009ish
>>People actually wanted a DVD player while nobody cares about blu ray
>>PS2 was affordable and PS3 was $500+

thats all tru,
i didnt get a ps3 till 2009, wen it released i wasnt payin £500, still i did buy 2 ps3s preowned for £250 each, a 40gb first, then realised it wasnt back compatible, so got a 60gb, sold the 40gb a week later to a mate for £120. still no one gives a shit about bluray.

cant believe how expensive console/games/peripherals have gotten, saw no reason to get anything after the 360/ps3

recently set up a gaming pc on the cheap, needed a controller but xbox ones are like £150 wtf?

>>8981517
a 32x+cd+genny hybrid console is literally just a weaker saga saturn

>>8981342
>I never met anyone around 1999-2001 who purchased a PS2 just to play DVDs
Piracy you dingus
Everyone bouth the PS2 because It was Easy as shit to pirate

>>8981517
>ride off the Genesis' success and go all in on the add-ons meme

anon that's literally what they did and why they died

>>8981579
third worlder who only got a ps2 in 2007 detected

>>8981342
the dreamcast is more like a suped up n64 than a ps2

>>8981594
yeah but the saturn's failure ate up all the success that the genesis had done

also genesis was cancelled in '95 for the saturn, it should've kept living till at least '98

>>8981342
Sega just got finished raping people with the Sega CD, the 32x, and the Saturn, and then they came out with this. Who would be dumb enough to buy into such a shady company after being raped for years and years?

>>8981517
>How Sega could've lived:
>ride off the Genesis' success and go all in on the add-ons meme: make 32XCD games and release a stand-alone system that combines all 3 internally to play them on for the people who didn't yet own a Genesis, then launch the 3dfx-powered Dreamcast instead of PowerVR for easier porting from/to computers; skipping the Saturn thus saves the company from having to declare bankruptcy and they still make great games to this day rather than garbage
This is what we all wanted but we got the Saturn instead thanks to SoJ. It's barely even a Genesis successor, more of a consolized arcade machine like Neo Geo CD

The CDX was a better Saturn than the Saturn itself, it had stuff like Sonic and Ecco that people actually cared about and remember from the Genesis

>>8981615
Also it's hilarious to see Saturn fans getting salty that SEGA CD is finally getting some representation

>>8981346
shitty meme

>>8981342
It was on market as a supported product for only 16 months, and sold almost 10 million units, despite being released in a time frame when the PS1 and N64 were still very strong market presences, and Sega themselves being multiple millions of dollars in debt and on the verge of bankruptcy, with no market presence whatsoever since the Genesis.. It set sales and revenue records at it's release, has a library of many fondly remembered games, was the starting point of series that are still relevant today, and was notable as being the launching point for numerous features that are commonplace today in the industry as a whole.
In literally what way is it a failure?

>>8981342
PS2 had better marketing and DVD storage made a difference in game design and texture quality. Sega should have invested in a DVD drive instead of online that wasn't ready yet.

>>8981626
They wasted millions of dollars marketing the console in Japan where it failed miserably. Kind of similar to why the Gamecube is considered a failure. It did great in America, but everyone else couldn't care less.

>>8981342
idk why people bought the ps2, maybe to watch porn, but thats about it, because if you compare the ps2 and dc, the dc shits on the ps2, bc its just better, it has better textures, better resolution, no shitty blurry effects and filters, way better fps, it has vga and for people complaining about Lesecondstickforfps you can just play them with the keyboard and mouse. it even has the vmu which is cool. the ps2 is more powerfull than the dc, but in practice, the ps2 is such a blurry, low res, low fps mess, that when a game is available on the dc and ps2, I always pic the dc version bc i know its gonna play and look better.
I kinda see the ps2 as a dragster and the dc as a gt nsx, the dragster would totally defeat the gt nsx in terms of power, but on circuit, the dragster stands no chance against the gt nsx

>>8981342
>Why did it fail so horribly?
Sega had been in the shitter financially for a long time, Sony basically made it their business to kill Sega since they knew they couldn't defeat Nintendo. Many people blame the Saturn but it sold very well in Japan. It probably goes back to the 32x honestly. But even if those were successes Sony could subsidize their hardware since they owned the manufacturing, whereas Sega did not. That was the real reason why they couldn't stay afloat but most people don't know that.
>Also, I'm 32 and I never met anyone around 1999-2001 who purchased a PS2 just to play DVDs, that's just a meme.
Same here. I remember having a standalone player and every kid I knew with a PS2 at their house didn't use it as a DVD player either.

>>8981643
All of Sega's consoles failed in nipland because all they want to do is play jrpgs with some shoji, weeb porn games and horse betting sims on the side. Nintendo stopped being relevant there as soon as all those genres moved to playstation.
who gives a shit about what nips like anyway

>>8981342
My family purchased a PS2 just to play DVDs. It was me and my brothers selling point that they can play DVDs and we can play video games.

>>8981342
>Why did it fail so horribly?
Sega ran out of money
>Wasn't it basically identical in power to PS2
No but it was a pretty powerful system for 1998
>I'm 32 and I never met anyone around 1999-2001 who purchased a PS2 just to play DVDs
I'm 42 and knew several people who did because it was significantly cheaper than regular DVD players at the time. The Matrix on DVD basically the PS2's killer app because the launch line up wasn't anything special.

>>8981440
1GB vs 1.36GB, similar but GC still has a considerable lead

>>8981342
I remember playing with a friends DC not long after it launched and was immediately hooked. I started saving up for one but by the time I did sega was already dropping it.

>>8981748
A typical DVD player of the most lowly type was still $200 when the PS2 came out. Tons of people bought them for this purpose and in fact strictly as a DVD player the PS2 is very capable for its time and price point. The only down side is it's kind of loud because it's not very heavy and the damping is shit.

>>8981342
It didn't fail horribly, it had the most succesful launch at the time, it's just that sega was so deep into the hole that there was little they could do to save them.

>>8981980
Nope, the hole was created by the DC
They only came out of the hole when they went third party

>>8981342
They should have cancelled the 32X shortly after it was announced, and ported most of their 1st party titles to the Saturn, as would at least some 3rd party devs. Sonic Xtreme should have either been canned early on, or a 2D Saturn title, seeing as nearly none of the people at Sega of America had much, if any, prior experience with 3D rendering. Also,
>worked on VDP1 at least a little more so its not so wonky at 3D rendering
>added 16k, if not 32k more RAM to the Saturn during development.
>should not have pissed off Tom Kalinske by rushing the North American Launch to happen before the fabled "Saturnday"
Then, as for the Dreamcast, they should have cut at least a few corners with Shenmue 2 so as not to have not so much of a loss, then give more time to develop a DVD expansion for it. Sega Dreamcast might have last at least 1 or more year with first-party support then.
Shenmue 2 ended fine, and 3 ended up being mostly a rehash/retread anyway.

>>8981532
I got a Nintendo switch pro controller for my PC for $20 and it’s got buttons coming out its ass

>>8981380
Yeah this. For only existing for a year and a half it sold really damn well. It just didn’t sell really damn well enough to course correct Sega. And they knew it wouldn’t. The chances of it “saving” them were practically 0 even before it released

Look at shenmue, the game cost them more money than they could have possibly made if every single Dreamcast owner bought the game.

It’s would have required a like 2 sales per console ratio to have turned a profit

And they knew that. And they didn’t care and they did it anyway and made one of the best games of all time

Segagaga is a Japanese exclusive RPG made as a goodbye letter to Sega’s hardware lineage in a way. It’s an RPG where you play as a party of old Sega IPs trying to save the failing company from bankruptcy.
The game was entirely a passion project. The budget for the games marketing was exactly $200 which the guy spent on a wrestling mask to go around to spots in Japan to perform and show off the game to people
They knew it wasn’t gonna make money. They knew that they were dumping the very last of their funds into a game that literally nobody would buy and they knew it wouldn’t save them even if people did buy it. But they did it anyway because they cared. They spent the $200 they could afford and did the best they could.

The Dreamcast is sovl to me because it’s an instance of a huge gaming company choosing to do the thing they knew would doom them faster, just because they wanted to go down with their ship with a bang.

If you read interviews from the era, that was the idea a lot of devs had. “Last chance to go out with a bang, so throw everything you have at it”

Play segagaga btw it’s immense sovl

>>8981885
The irony of this chart is that the massive loss that happens in 97-98 is due to Sega of Japan realizing Sega of America had a shit ton of unsold Genesis games, consoles, accessories, etc. sitting in warehouses and had no other option but to write them off.

>>8981342
>purchased a PS2 just to play DVDs
Saw slim at boomer garage sale. $10
Tag said 'DVD player. Works"
Old lady assured me it was ok
Maybe she didn't know about games.

>>8982003
The decline started with the Sega Saturn. If you looked at the graph, it shows the Dreamcast was able to slow the sharp decline that the Saturn's failure caused in 1997-1998.

>>8982372
no it started with the cd / 32x / cd+32x days

they were desperate because they knew sony was going to annihilate everybody

yo dudes, this is sad

>>8982372
That sharp decline in 97-98 isn't the Saturn. It's Sega of Japan taking control and writing off a shit ton of unsold Genesis related inventory that Sega of America had sitting in warehouses.

>>8982003
The hole was almost entirely the Saturn, that graph is Sega's overall profit as a company, this one more accurately shows what was actually going on. The Saturn was bleeding them, and they were covering it with arcade profits, as soon as the arcade profits declined, the bottom fell out of the company and they went bankrupt. Sega more or less made very little to no profit for over 5 years because of the Saturn being a worldwide disaster.
>>8982262
>>8982437
The Genesis and it's games were literally the only trickle of revenue Sega was getting from the home product division in those years, as the Saturn had stopped being manufactured entirely and sales fell off a cliff even in Japan which was the only market it ever had a slight impact on. All of Sega's home profits in 97-98 were the Genesis 3 rebrand and some middling sells of Saturn games in Japan. Stop making up bullshit.

>>8982459
this chart exclusively shows the hole was the DC

>>8982081
>Nintendo switch pro controller

didnt know they work on pc, just looked them up there like £49.99-£59.99 here. i refuse to pay more than £25 for a pad.

i had a wired 360 pad but lent it to a family member and never got it back, cant even buy them new n e more, i settled for a preowned one off gumtree, had to drive 20miles for it, got home and no breakaway cable fuk!
managed to use the breakaway from an og xbox pad, cut the end off and soldered on a usb, bit of a bodge job but it works!

>>8982459
You've misunderstood. The dramatic issue that happened in 97-98 that caused them to post a massive loss wasn't the Saturn. It was due to writing off tons of unsold inventory which lead to a massive devaluation of how much Sega of America was worth.

In 1996 Shoichiro Irimajiri took over as CEO of Sega of America (Bernie Stolar was beneath him as President). During this time he realized that Sega of America had been severely mismanaged and most of it's promotions during the Genesis and early Saturn years had gotten them market share but came at a massive financial loss. Even worse, they were awful at managing inventory and had been letting unsold inventory build up in warehouses for years due to severely overestimating how much Genesis stuff would sell in it's declining years.

This led to a situation that while the parent company was posting profits each year, the American subsidiary was bleeding money and it wasn't really showing up in reports due to an inaccurate evaluation of that branches value. So in 1997 Irimajiri was forced to write off all this unsold inventory which lead to dramatic change in Sega of America's perceived value which resulted in Sega as a whole posting a massive loss in 1998. This info has recently come about from translated Japanese newspapers articles from the time, as well as being mentioned in Sega's FY98 report.

>>8981342
The dvd thing was not a meme when it came out. Had to be alive during that time I guess you're just larping.

>>8982509
I mean, I don't know why people think it's a meme
The same thing happened with PS3 and its Blu-ray player

>>8982486
Learn to read a graph
>>8982496
Please leave your obnoxious schizo drivel in your brain where it formed

>>8982515
>The same thing happened with PS3 and its Blu-ray player
Not really. I distinctly remember people laughing at PS3's being plentiful in stock at launch while Wii's and Xbox 360's were selling out. I do remember Sony fans trying to entice people into buying them though by saying "But it plays Bluray movies!"

>>8982524
>Please leave your obnoxious schizo drivel in your brain where it formed
I'm sorry that recently translated Japanese news articles from the time as well as Sega's Fiscal Year reports don't align with your Saturn hate boner.

>>8982534
>The Saturn was actually a massive success, the fact Sega's home division posted multiple millions of losses in the years prior to this phantom sell off that was never reported by anyone, or mentioned by a single person in the past 25 years, until some random schizo on /vr/ apparently translated 25 year old Japanese newpapers, where Sega not only listed but also explained the reason in detail for the their massive financial losses in the home division (again with no one ever reporting on this before or since) is all just because people irrationally hate the Saturn. Also Sega of America actually lost all the money for the company, even though they and the arcade division were the only source of income for 15 years
Ok.

>>8982564
dude, you're just wrong. learn from your mistakes and move on

>>8982579
Never, Saturntranny.

>>8982564
I didn't say the Saturn was a massive success. I said it's not the cause for the massive drop from 97-98. Remember Saturn came out in 1994, if it was the result of a massive spike like that we should have seen that spike sooner. Something else more severe happened in 97-98 to cause that dramatic plummet. And it's exactly what I described, Sega even mentions it specifically in their FY98 report.

You can read the report for yourself here, pic related is pulled from it.: https://segaretro.org/images/f/fe/AnnualReport1998_English.pdf

>>8982613
saturn is based, kys

>>8981885
>the launch line up wasn't anything special.

>>8982613
sup auster
you know ban evading is against the rules right? i saw your new posts in the castlevania thread, and they were new ips

>>8981342
>PS2 tier power
Whoa whoa whoa, outside of image clarity and textures memory (gotten over in top tier titles via sheer autistic will and budget) it was NOT as powerful. It couldn't push nearly as many polygons, lighting was less robust, and it wasn't capable of the same effects. DC was far more 'rigid' hardware. It could never in a million years do DX8 adjacent shit like Silent Hill 3 or MGS3. It would have to software-render, seconds-per-frame strain some of that shit because the hardware just couldn't do it natively. The DC could output very clean, fullbright, "blue sky" arcade visuals easily, but it can't hang with max-effort PS2 games. It was a cheaper Model 3.

I like the DC, and how it looks, but in the words of David Lynch: get real.

>>8981342
It has no games and it is just full of ports
You can even find interviews of developers from sega talking about how they could not make interesting games for it

>>8981342
I feel like on this board that I am the sole person that likes both systems, like what is going on where you have to hate one to like the other?
I just like to play vidya

>>8981636
DVD certainly couldn't have made a difference in texture quality because the PS2 literally could only display 1/16th of the texture data that DC could.

>>8981342
Sega

>>8982640
This does not say anything close to what you think it's saying. The first quote is talking about clearing Saturn inventory in preparation for the Dreamcast, the second is talking about them mis-judging their fanbase and not delivering a product with Saturn that their fanbase desired.
You literally posted an article that agrees with me, because you are unironically mentally deranged and form random ass pull theories and conclusions from an article you're too stupid to read and comprehend. You are legitimately one of the dumbest people I have ever encountered in my 16 hellish years of using this chink cartoon bbs

>>8981342
Sega had already become an irrelevant, widely ignored company by the time Dreamcast arrived. My most prominent memory is of my friends all saying they were going to wait for the PS2 to arrive the following year... and for good reason. The PSX was a solid system, Sony was a strong company, and the PS2 was already looking amazing. After the 32X, Sega CD, and Saturn, nobody wanted to be the rube that bet on yet another failed console.

>>8981346
What’s the board on the top part there in the disc tray?

>>8982640
>Also, I'm 32 and I never met anyone around 1999-2001 who purchased a PS2 just to play DVDs, that's just a meme.
Their huge losses were due to their complete disappearance from the Western home console market between June 1998 and September 1999, as well as Bernie Stolar selling every Dreamcast at a $50 loss

>>8981342
it didn't fail, it wasn't successful enough

>>8982875
I want to believe console hate is just people shitposting and they are not so braindead

>>8982515
it was definitely a thing with the blu-ray player
those dedicated machines were like 1 thousand dollars here

>>8982640
Their huge losses were due to their complete disappearance from the Western home console market between June 1998 and September 1999, as well as Bernie Stolar selling every Dreamcast at a $50 loss

>>8983160
Fellow ausfag?
Yeah, that’s why I posted it, I know a few people that did the same

>>8983167
>inb4 I'm rich I own a bluray
argentina

>>8981342
>Never the console
>Never drew a dime
>Never had a good game period
>Never put anyone over
>Public/dev trust and buyrate already tanked by the Saturn shitshow
>Jannettied by PlayStation 2 even before the system was even announced
>Buried 3dfx during development for no reason
>Needed propietary disc format to beat PS1/N64's storage capacity
>The system's Internet gimmick was cringe
>The system's Windows CE gimmick was cringe and was even targeted by Microsoft haters during the peak of Microsoft antitrust case
>The system's advertisements in Japan (directed by Yasushi Akimoto, the AKB48 guy) was cringe
>The system's Limp Bizkit tie-in in the US was cringe
>The memory card's Tamagotchi gimmick was cringe
>SoJ/SoA keeps politicking each other for no reason during the system's development and life
>An entire accessory got censored in the US for no reason
>The console's logo got censored in Europe because of muh trademark
>Drew so poorly in entirety of console's life that Sega had to leave the console business and sell themselves to pachinko money marks
>Spent the entirety of the system's lifetime buried by superior systems
>The biggest impact it had on the business was exposing the fall of Sega the company never recovered from until the Yakuza series happened.

>>8982106
Play segagaga btw it’s immense sovl
English Path when?

>>8982494
The fuck is a breakaway cable? And don’t you think you’d have been better off paying the price for that Switch controller rather than all the bullshit you say you had to go through for that used controller you bought?

>>8983372
>The fuck is a breakaway cable?

OG and 360 controllers have cables that split apart just at the end of the cable near the plug. It's so if you pull on the cord the cable just breaks away safely instead of pulling the entire console. Pops right back together of course.

It's pretty smart design, especially with the 360 given how badly it'll mangle disks if the console is moved while reading it. Of course that all creates the risk of buying Xbox controllers that are missing part of the cable.

>>8983372
it was a lot of bullshit, controller was near new condition, only paid £5 and got two wireless pads and a rechage cable as well, that cable was also fucked

i settled on a 360 pad as i knew i could use it for my older os computers as well

>>8981673
Based Dreamcast defender/PS2 Hater.
I love you anon

>>8983496
LOL so that’s what that thing was. I bought one of those “for Windows” 360 controllers back in the day, and I assumed it had a 360-to-USB adapter, but it was that breakaway thing then.

>>8984459
thx anon

>>8981413
>snoy lizard brain dictates DC < PS2
>and PSP = PS2 but portable < PS2
>therefore DC = PSP

>>8984756
hurr

>>8981625
>t.owns an Xbox

>>8981420
It ran Power Stone better than dreamcast in fact.

Simple answer :

Shitty timing

A console's success is pretty much 70% marketing. and 30% having that one game (which in the PS2's case was probably GTA3)
Honestly, even needing a game is questionable. I've known a lot of people in my life who just buy the Playstation because it's the Playstation. Good branding is powerful.

>>8984778
actually I don't

>>8981462
People who weren't even necessarily interested in games. Also bought Playstations for their extra functionality. I know people who bought a PS3 for the bluray drive, and played like one game on it.

>>8981342
Dreamcas would suceed if every owner of it bought two games in it's whole lifespan. Guess what happened.

>>8983160
No, it wasn't. For the average person, DVD vs Bluray made no difference. Both were discs they put in and watched the movie & extras without having to rewind the tape and shit. Exact same features, and the quality was no different because they still used CRTs.

Bluray only mattered to home theater fags who owned a HD displays, and the home theater expos I went to in the second half of the 00s all showcased the latest HD screens and projectors but drove them off of those hard drive based all-in-one boxes playing .mkv files.
It was fucking hilarious, we went to see demos of $2000 projectors in every room and you could see that they pop up the file selector folder view and pick "Casino Royale 2006 Uncut 720p BluRay DTS x264-ESiR". There were maybe two or three actual bluray players in the entire expo.

HTPCs were also becoming a thing at that time (for the price of a PS3 you could build a PC that could run both HDDVD, Bluray, MKV, and oh play games too).

>>8985012
They all went online with dc and never came back.

>>8981342
The PS2 has better hardware, more expansion, and can even run a Linux distro.

Ironically, the PS1 won, even though the Saturn has better hardware.

>>8981390
Wrong. Alpha sorting on Dreamcast is insane, GPU culling and tile based rendering were breakthroughs as well1.

>>8981420
Power Stone looked like crap on PSP compared to Dreamcast, also dropped frames a lot.

>>8985252
>Alpha sorting
Too bad it can't fill them, unlike PS2.

>>8982010
The development story of Sonic Xtreme is so fucking triggering. Imagine working yourself to point that doctors say you’re going to die and your game gets canned.

>>8985259
What's there to fill? It's a transparent texture, DC is superior at this by far.

>>8985214
>Bluray only mattered to home theater fags who owned a HD displays
I'm blown away, anon, who would have thought

>>8981449
>would you ask for a Sega console knowing the PS2 was on the horizon?
I loved my PSX and I took Dreamcast for the next gen. It was my first Sega console and it was a blast. I revisted PS2 later and never cared for it really.

>>8981413
>discs are tiny compared to DVDs
You're thinking of the Gamecube, which is an easy mistake since it got most of the Dreamcast's best titles after it died.

>>8981517
Sega of Japan was too butthurt about the Genesis success in the West and not performing in their own country so they killed the 32X by rushing out the Saturn. Was just total arrogance and they paid for it. I agree with you about the soluition.

>>8981342
Backwards compatibility with PSX was kind of a meme, but the fact it played DVDs was a game changer for a lot of households. A PS2 was only slightly more than the average DVD player at the time and it allowed people to have one less device.

>>8985448
The 32x killed the 32x
It also screwed over the Saturns launch

>>8982496
>Sega of America had been severely mismanaged
>letting unsold inventory build up in warehouses for years due to severely overestimating
You realise Sega of Japan actually fucked them over by announcing the Saturn right? Genesis was selling fine in America and that stock would have been sold if SoJ didn't kill interest in the system. Ridiculous they can call SoA "mismanaged" when the console as an absolute failure in their own territory. SoJ is the one that mismanaged.

>>8985465
>The 32x killed the 32x
It was selling good in America.
But SoJ didn't want it to steal the thunder from their grorious nippon console and axed it when what they should've done was leave 32X on the market for a year or 2 so they could improve the Saturn hardware to make it more dev-friendly and better at handling polygonal games.

>>8985475
>it was selling good
Lol, deluded

>>8985475
Same in Europe, it was pretty popular here. I had plenty of friends with a Mega Drive or SNES but I didn't know anyone who had a Saturn. They went from being top two to being practically non-existent.

>>8983104
>It was clearing away Saturn inventory!
Yet they were still producing Saturn's going into what appears to be late July, early August of 1998. Secondly, there is evidence from interviews of Sega of America employees that they severely over-estimated demand on later US Genesis games and hardware. As a result they had quite a bit of inventory sitting around that they later got rid of. This is why for a very long time in the late 90s and early 2000's you could still get tons of new old stock of various late gen Genesis games and accessories.

It wasn't as common with Saturn stuff beyond things like the Light Gun and Virtua Stick. Systems weren't that common to find nor where the games beyond maybe some EA sports titles. Sega reported to have sold 1.7 million US Systems by June of 1997. It's estimated that ~2 million US Systems were made in total, and maybe 1 million for Europe and Australia? That's not a big gap between amount made and sold. Which that makes sense since Irimajiri took over in 1996 and most likely started to reign in the out of control inventory and overproduction issue Sega of America had going on

So it doesn't really add up that they were clearing away a ton of Saturn inventory.
> the second is talking about them mis-judging their fanbase and not delivering a product with Saturn that their fanbase desired.
How do you get that from the Fiscal Year quote? He literally says "We placed too much emphasis on the existing market and it was an ineffective strategy for making the transition to Saturn." He's not saying the Saturn wasn't a viable product in that statement for their fanbase. He's saying they focused too much on the declining Genesis market. In other words they focused too hard on the Genesis and 32X, over-estimated demand, and had a ton of unsold stock.

>>8983165
FY98 is April 1997 to April 1998. So that doesn't really fit the timeline.

>>8985527
>He's saying they focused too much on the declining Genesis market. In other words they focused too hard on the Genesis and 32X, over-estimated demand, and had a ton of unsold stock.
Because he's a shill for SoJ and they had to cope by blaming SoA for their own failure. Genesis had plenty of life left if they didn't rush the Saturd out.

>>8985573
>Genesis had plenty of life left if they didn't rush the Saturd out.
No it didn't. Genesis peaked in 1993 then was in a very rapid decline. Console sales and software sales were down considerably. And it wasn't for a lack of trying either. Sega was still publishing and developing roughly the same amount of Genesis titles in 1993, 1994, and 1995. Many of those were even made by Japanese teams. And no, that's not worldwide, that's just the US market. Worldwide the situation was even worse.

The Genesis was on it's way out, and it was painfully obvious to everyone except Sega of America. By early 1996 both the PS1 and Saturn were outselling it.

>>8982106
Wasn't that the RPG that portrayed Kalinske as a villain?

Dreamcast failed because it was poorly designed and poorly marketed.
>objectively worst graphics of the gen. ran at only about 200mhz clock speed which is akin to 2 N64s taped together. had some onboard effects and shaders that PS2 didnt have but was significantly weaker in almost every other respect
>retarded controller that took undeniable steps down from even the Saturn 3D pad and looked like childs play compared to dualshock and Xbox/GCN controllers. very few inputs, hard stick and buttons, tons of wasted space, dev cost sunk into retarded VMUs that nobody asked for, looked childish, etc.
>couldnt play DVDs. this wasnt the main draw of the PS2 but omitting this feature certainly didnt help DC sales with older adults and families who wanted a multi-purpose media device
>loud as all fuck, shitty disc drive/laser, very long load times
>no backwards compatability, game library was fairly small and lacked much outside of a few mediocre exclusives and arcade ports (during a time where arcades were nearly dead), got very few 3rd party titles that the other 3 consolea were treated to
>way too easy to pirate games for
>lackluster online service that paled in comparison to PC offerings of the time, wasn't free like GC/PS2, and didnt offer the rich features of Xbox Live
>millions of dollars spent on marketing for shit like namedrops on MTV music awards or paying Limp Bizkit to play the console at a few shows, not to mention tons of bizarre commercials that werent particularly effective
>wasted even more money on strange marketing schemes like giving a free console to people who signed up for sega net (as if that was ever going to make money)
DC was nifty in its own way, and like any console it has a few gems, but it just couldnt compare to the other offerings of the era, and it didn't even offer much beyond what the PS1/N64 could offer for even less money.

>>8985635
>graph showing that after the Saturn Sega didn't make in an entire fiscal year what they made in half of any previous one
>obviously the Genesis was the cause of this
Are you a Sega of Japan employee? I don't see any other scenario besides that or you being an almost unfathomably deranged weeb where you could twist this shit so hard so your mind as to where any of this is fathomable, when every single other person in the world knows better.

>>8985645
You couldn't have made it anymore obvious that you were nothing more than at best a toddler when the DC was on market, and know nothing about the general cultural at the time, or what was actually happening with the console. This is one of the worst, YouTube historian tier posts I've ever seen.

Maybe not just for dvds but friends parents bought him one because it does play them

>>8985691
so basically i was right on every point snd you are buttblasted. got it.

>>8982994
Not that that really matters because Sega games have to compress textures to shit just to get anything to fit onto tiny ass CDs. Maybe we could have seen the Dreamcast's true power in texture rendering in another universe, but sadly not in this one since Bernie Idiot decided online dialup shit (which got supplanted by broadband only a year later) was more important than the more obvious future that was DVDs.

>>8982994
lies
https://wars.locopuyo.com/cwsystemspecsold.php

>>8981342
I remember being in awe at the sight of it back in the day and it cost $500 dollars here in my country, while the PS1 was like $150 so I got that in 1999 instead and it already had more games that could be pirated.

I do believe the Dreamcast was killed by an executive under a mandate from another company, think Microsoft or Sony and Im inclined to think it was Microsoft. Yes, a dude or dudes, supposedly on Sega's side in the US but doing everything in their power to sink it in the eyes of the Japanese leadership. Remember: It already sold 10 million units that by then was low but still substancial, there was no reason to quit.

>>8981532
get the 8bitdo pro 2

>>8981342
>basically identical in power to PS2
No way dreamcast is able to run games like shadow of the colossus, black, RE 4, god of war 2, GT4 or metal gear solid 3.

>>8985804
to be fair, PS2 couldnt run RE4 either kek

>>8985804
Playstation 2 couldn't handle a 1:1 port of Shenmue II, according to Yu Suzuki.
Sorry Sonybro, but your console is the weakest of 6th gen. Time to face the facts.

>>8985809
>>8985893
Now imagine if shenmue and RE4 were developed exclusively with the ps2 hardware in mind. this is when GC and DC shit their pants... even xbox (see SilentHill 2)

>>8981342
People were idiots, people were like no, I will wait 2 more years for the ps2, it will be soooo much better. Maybe it was just too early, n64 was about 2 years earlier so the impression may have been that ps1 and n64 were not tapped out yet.

From the forums I was on at the time it was a battle to convince normies to give this system a chance and for me it was hard to find in stores. Even my gamer friends were convinced that final fantasy 10 would be soooo much better graphically better than shenmue.

>>8981449
Ps1 was perceived as the adult mature console, sega was seen as old timey baby sonic console for a couple of years. As a kid you would be lucky to get a console 2 or 3 years into the generation.

>>8985804
The whole caring about power thing was throw out when gamecube failed. The whole time period was idiotic cringe xtreme sports non sense. The stars wars games wouldn't run on ps2 and I think even xbox would have trouble with them. The xbox has tones of polygons with mega blurry textures.

>>8985761
The graphics were mind blowing at release, even top tier PCs didn't have games that looked as good as games like Soul Calibur while running at 60fps
No one knew or cared about DVDs in 1999. The PS2 and things like season box sets did miracles for the mass proliferation of DVDs in the 2000s. Up until its release, the general thought was "why the fuck would i buy a movie i already own just because its on a disc.
The load times on the DC were incredibly fast compared to the PS1, and even the PS2.
It had Sega's own popular franchises and third party support from big names like Capcom, Midway, Ubisoft, Activision, Acclaim and Eidos.
The rampant piracy was something that started happening after the console was already dead, and it was common knowledge how easy it was.
The online service was revolutionary at the time, and praised by everyone for its ease of use
Limp Bizkit was gigantic at the time, and weird mass market commericials were a Sega staple since the Genesis
You are blatantly underage.

>>8985678
>Are you a Sega of Japan employee?
Are you retarded and unable to read the dates? You can see there's a significant drop from September of 1993 to March of 1993. Saturn wasn't even finalized in it's design at this point. From then to October of 1994, it continues to drop. Within a year and a half Sega of America's revenue on hardware and software drops by almost 60%. The Saturn isn't even out yet in Japan, and is still months away in the US. How could Saturn be responsible for that drop? The answer is that the 16-bit market was becoming saturated and sales were starting to drop off dramatically.

That chart isn't Sega as a whole either, it's just Sega of America. By the time Saturn releases in the US, Sega of America's revenue on hardware and software has already dropped by 60% - 70%. The chart isn't trying to say the Genesis was at fault or something. It's instead evidence that the 16-bit era was over and it was time to move on. It's proof that the Genesis didn't have "Plenty of life left in it." as some try to claim. The system had been on the market for 6-7 years, and the market was saturated with sales dropping fast. It was time to retire it and move on to the next generation system.

Instead Sega of America refused to let it go and instead tried to prop it up with the 32X which severely damaged their reputation and put them in a very bad position to launch the Saturn from.

>>8985804
Forget any of those late gen games, it couldn't handle GTA III.

>>8986194
Every industry suffered a drop off because the economy crashed. The Genesis was still the best selling console in 93-94-95. It and the SNES outsold every new console until 96, and both it and the SNES had million+ selling software all the way up until 98. You're an absolute moron and making it obvious you're not only blindly making up shit in your head, but weren't even alive when any of it was going on. Shut the fuck up and fuck off with your irreverent bullshit, this thread isn't even about the Saturn or Genesis

The Sega Genesis addons and whatnot bullshit is what killed it, and saturn had NoGames, which buried it before it even had a chance

>>8981390
Ps2 couldn't run Shenmue. There's a reason Xbox got Shenmue 2.

>>8986625
Downgrade the textures and it totally could.

>>8981540
Plenty of 32x games out performed Saturn. Mortal Kombat 2, Virtua Racing and Doom come to mind.

>>8986628
Not according to Yu Suzuki.

>>8986630
I'm sure he's unbiased.

>>8986629
That's because they're bad ports, not because the 32x is more powerful. The 32x spec is a Saturn with no GPU and fuckall RAM.

>>8981342
I remember playing it in the store with Sonic Adventure. That game sucks and the controller also sucks. The rest of the library looked weird so who really cared. N64 had a bunch of games coming out that I wanted anyway so why ask for a Dreamcast? Even if I got a new console I'd want it to be a PlayStation to play the dozen other games that looked good.

>>8986638
Mortal Kombat 2 on Saturn was on a cd and like a lot of early cd games they had loading issues. 32x didn't have this problem making it more powerful in that department. Please just admit defeat when it's clear you're wrong.

>>8986650
>playing n64 even oncenwhen dreamcast launched
Lol your late n64 games blew compared to dreamcast. How anyone could play a first person shooter on n64 over unreal tournament or quake 3 on dreamcast is beyond me.

>>8986652
>shooters on the DC controller
nasty

>>8986651
>32x is more powerful because saturn doesn't have cartridges
Impressively retarded.

>>8985245
>PS1 won, even though the Saturn has better hardware.

Think you've completely mischaracterised the situation there. Needlessly complicated and an absolute cunt to program, isnt the same as "better"

>>8986652
>super smash bros
>mario golf
>donkey kong 64
>paper mario
>perfect dark
>banjo-tooie
>majora's mask
>mario tennis
>mario party 2 & 3
>kirby crystal shards
It was a good time to own an N64 and I was 9 at the time. I'd still rather play all those today than Quake 3 on a console.

>>8986663
PS2 was needlessly complicated and a cunt to program but was more powerful in most ways than the Dreamcast.
Saturn was needlessly complicated and a cunt to program but also just weaker in most ways than Playstation.

>>8986651
>>8986629
legitimate mong who's got fuck all clue what he's talking about

>>8986653
How is it nasty? Four face buttons is esentialy the same as wsad keys and quake 3 looked and ran good on dc, better than ps2.

>>8986664
>Mario, zelda the list goes on
What was wrong with Quake on dreamcast anon? It had fun 4 player split screen and you could even play fps online with dreamcast.

>>8986747
Dreamcast Quake 3 is unplayable with that controller. Or at least you won't have much fun using it. It's also just a console port of a PC game. Not really anything special in 2022.

>>8986742
You can do that but then you only can use the two triggers comfortably. And the controls are effectively back to front, so it isn't comfortable.
The N64 controller was pretty bad for FPS too but at least it had the option of using a traditionally positioned dpad for movement or sparing some face buttons.
The DC controller was truly a downgrade for getting rid of the C and Z buttons, why would they do that after the Saturn 3D pad?

>>8986670
>>8986656
Any fighting game that pauses to load during combat multiple times a round is a joke worse than n64 games that run at 5 frames per second.

>>8986750
>so it isn't comfortable
We didn't have CoD layouts back then anon and that layout was fine anyway. You would use the dpad to cycle weapons which while not ideal compared to 2 extra face buttons was still not game breaking as you're making out.

>>8986750
>The N64 controller was pretty bad for FPS
nah

>>8986749
>unplayable with that controller
Do you know this from experience or are you talking out of your ass? I played split screen multiplayer with the boys after school often. It was a hell of a lot more fun than perfect Dark. And claiming pc is superior is a load of shit as lan parties were weekend events that you needed to organise and set up. You couldn't just do that on the fly like console gaming offered you.

>>8986769
>Do you know this from experience or are you talking out of your ass?
Experience.

>>8985642
baka gaijin get the rope too

>>8986781
I still don't believe you ever really pumped hours into this because the controller made it unplayable, and even if that were the case why not use mouse and keyboard? I bought a light gun and stick for other games I found the pad didn't quite get the job done.

>>8981342
The Dreamcast hardware would’ve quickly become outdated compared to the 'main' three sixth gen consoles and wouldn’t have been able to keep up past 2002 or so.

>>8986937
What makes you say that?

>>8986937
2001 already saw MGS2, GTA III and Silent Hill 2. It didn't have a chance.

>>8986938
There wasn’t some untapped magic that would’ve miraculously given the Dreamcast more power. The aging hardware simply wouldn’t have been capable of producing the graphics that the PS2/GC/Xbox could, especially when the sixth gen was in full swing and devs were taking full advantage of the new hardware.

>>8985252
DC was more "advanced" in that regard, it also supported texture compression and had more VRAM. But PS2 had something like 120x the fillrate, and you could write to it at max speed with an independent coprocessor. So you could bruteforce nearly anything on it.

DC vs PS2 is like SNES vs Genesis, one has more advanced video but it is slower, the other has more primitive video but holy shit the CPU is so fucking fast.

>>8986939
Final Fantasy X as well. The PS2 was pumping out some really impressive looking games a year into its launch.

>>8985527
>Yet they were still producing Saturn's going into what appears to be late July, early August of 1998.

Saturn production was almost completely stopped after the 97 holidays. They only produced limited edition units after that (two Skeleton Saturns, V-Saturns, etc).

>>8986954
I deliberately wanted to pick multiplat games since they'd be more representative of the whole gen, although the Xbox ports only arrived a few years later.

>>8985635
>Genesis peaked in 1993 then was in a very rapid decline.

Yeah, because they focused on new consoles instead of the Genesis. Endless wave of expansions, Pico, 32x, Saturn, etc. They had developers stuck working on those plus also experimenting on the PC.

If they say no, fuck that, and focus on making good Genesis games, it would've had great sales until 95-6 easy.

>>8986948
The Dreamcast GPU was at least competitive. The slower CPU, lack of RAM, and lack of dedicated vertex processing were much greater problems for long term viability.

>>8986948
>>8986979
They could've released the Naomi 2 as a DC2. Add in a DVD drive and now you have hardware power between the Xbox and PS2. You could sell it at $300 at that rate too, it only had 2 extra ASICs - two of which were the same parts, so after one or two years they could be combined into the same silicon.

>>8986991
It's a risky venture, it could alienate the existing install base. Releasing too much hardware too fast is what got them into this mess.

>>8986112
so much pseud drivel. "DUDE LIMP BIZKIT WAS HUGE" okay retard but paying them money to advertise a console that ended up selling less than Saturn turned out to be kind of retarded and a waste of money didn't it? Also I dont know why you're comparing DC load times to PS1 that came out in fucking 1995, and no it did not load faster than PS2. "But dude it had all of SEGA'S popular stuff!", that's the thing idiot, it wasn't popular. the console sold 9m fucking units. it had barely any software sales. nobody gave a fuck about arcade fighters and racing games in 1999. you're countering criticisms of the console by telling me the things it did right, except those things were demonstrably not right because the console fucking tankes hard. you're one to be calling anybody underage when you say shit like Sega had a "revolutionary online service". nigger, everybody in America had a PC at the time and could play video games online for fucking free with 1000x more options and features. you are fucking underage and you are pretending the console was something it wasnt. it was the weakest console of its gen, it had the worst design, it had the most expensive and ineffective marketing, and guess what? the sales followed suit. end of story.

Bad thread from OP. It's because Sega ran out of money lmao

>>8986991
In the world where Saturn didn't flop and Sega didn't have to rush DC to market, DC would have been a Naomi 2 based platform.

>>8987058
That anon was wrong about a lot of stuff, although I will say the Dreamcast had a pretty successful launch and it was relatively popular here in the U.S. thanks to the low price at launch and impressive graphics. I got mine on 9/9/99 and it was the first console I ever bought with my own money.

>>8987069
sure, but clearly it was all hype because it sunk like a rock after release. there's nothing wrong with liking DC but pretty much every point here >>8985645 is spot on and time and time again you see sega drones defending shit that killed the console because they arent willing to accept that it was highly flawed

>>8987105
Overall, the Dreamcast had a solid first year on the market, but then the PS2 launched in fall of 2000 and the DC was no longer the most powerful console available. Plus, like others have said, a lot of people chose to wait for the PS2 instead of investing in another Sega console.

>>8985645
>and it didn't even offer much beyond what the PS1/N64 could offer for even less money.

I agree with most of your points but not this one. Seeing Sonic Adventure or SoulCalibur for the first time was a huge graphical leap over what we’d been used to with the PlayStation or N64. The Dreamcast felt truly next gen at the time.

>>8981676
I'm 33 and the PS2 having a DVD player is the only reason my childhood video gaming didn't die with the Genesis.
>>8981342
Probably because you don't talk to anyone.
>>8982279
Aren't fats the only ones worth anything? I still have mine but GT3 A spec doesn't cut it anymore with a full Sim rig and my pc.

>>8985645
XBL didn't even exist when Dream cast came out you fucking nigger. I remember having to use my computer to connect to other Halo 1 players if we wanted to play. SOCOM and FF11 didn't even come out until after Halo. What the fuck are you talking about?

>>8987201
I was in college during the sixth gen and the PS2 doubling as a DVD player was a common sight in dorms and apartments. I’d imagine if you were only a kid back in the early 00s, the DVD aspect wasn’t as big a deal to you as games.

>>8981517
Saturnfags will seethe.

>>8987210
Yeah, a lot of that post is disingenuous. XBL didn’t really hit its stride until around 2003 or 2004.

>>8987213
I owned 1 DVD at the time, The Matrix. My dad was all about movies and box sets, it was how I convinced him to buy one for us. Ultimately made me hate Japanese games because of the Gundam game and how jewish Bandai and other jap companies are. Journey to Jaburo sucked dicks.

>>8987219
Halo 2 was one of the big reasons Live changed directions and shaped the current shittiness of console gaming. Even CS:Source still let you host your own server and that game was the same year. 2004 was the beginning of the end for that style of online gaming in my eyes. The split is more apparent in FPS games than anywhere else.

>>8982426
>they were desperate because they knew sony was going to annihilate everybody

I don't think they knew shit.

Sega and Nintendo likely believed that the PlayStation was going to be yet another also-ran.

3DO
CD-i
Amiga CD32
Jaguar
PlayStation

Could've easily happened.

Nobody could have predicted how the PlayStation would blow up.

>>8984841
based if truth

>>8987269
IIRC, Sega of America’s CEO did anticipate the PlayStation having pretty good 3D specs and tried to push Sega of Japan to beef up the Saturn’s 3D capabilities. The end result was the Saturn’s notoriously difficult Frankenstein architecture.

>>8987289
This is a meme
Saturn had arcade boards that did 3D like Daytona and wanted to bring it to console

>>8982496
>This info has recently come about from translated Japanese newspapers articles from the time, as well as being mentioned in Sega's FY98 report.
Where can i read about it?

>>8987058
I'm comparing the Dreamcast to the PS1 and N64 because that was it's market competition. The Dreamcast shared a market with the PS2 for 3 months before Sega went bankrupt.
Sega's own games make the majority of sales on the console, the console has multiple million+ software sellers, and the console itself sold almost 10m units in 16 months as I mentioned previously in this thread, which was more than the PS2 itself sold in the same length of time. You are being wholly disingenuous and downright unknowledgeable stating the console wasn't popular.
Not even 50% of Americans owned a home computer by 2000, and the percentage of those that did and used them to play games was miniscule. This is the most glaring proof of how underage you actually are, if you think Sega getting a console with online connectivity in 1999 wasn't a gigantic revolution for the entire industry. Xbox live itself wouldn't be active for another 3 and a half years.
You are blatantly underage, and speaking out your ass about things and times you know absolutely nothing about, and we're likely not even born for. This is not Twitter or TikTok or whatever other social media shithole you use. No one needs to hear your idiotic babble. Shut the fuck up, and fuck off.

>>8981517
You mean well but I think you're stupid. If they focused on making the Saturn a true 3D console rather than only somewhat, it might've been a viable competitor to the Playstation and N64.

>>8987434
True, but I’m pretty sure SoA wanted the SGI tech that ended up going into the N64.

>>8987058
>everybody in America had a PC at the time and could play video games online for fucking free with 1000x more options and features
>in 1999

>>8987678
When Nintendo backstabbed Sony the first thing Sony did was offer Sega the same partnership, and for the PlayStation to be Sega's new next gen console. The japs said no.
Tom Kalinske was very down on the Saturns development, and personally visited SGI and made a verbal agree to license the same tech used in the N64. The japs said no.
When the Dreamcast was being made, multiple SoA higher-ups worked out a deals with Microsoft and 3dfx for a type of proto Xbox console that would run a windows based OS, and x86 architecture to make PC ports and development seamless and simple after the disaster that the Saturn was. The japs said no.
EA was willing to heavily support the Dreamcast, due to always having a good relationship with SoA, and their games always being among the highest sellers on the Genesis. Their single demand was that they be the only publisher allowed to release sports games on the console. SoJ had just approved 10m purchasing Visual Concepts to make sports games for them, and refused, so EA blacklisted Sega.

>>8987724
Not only that but he's so underage he doesn't know DCs online features were also free, and thinks Seganet was some gaming subscription you paid for like XBL instead of Segas own ISP branch.

>>8987537
>I'm comparing the Dreamcast to the PS1 and N64 because that was it's market competition
no
>The Dreamcast shared a market with the PS2 for 3 months before Sega went bankrupt.
no

discarded

>>8987724
>>8987734
yeah, everybody had a PC in 1999. where the fuck did you live? and seganet required a subscription. fucking underage retards larping as boomers.

>>8987724
Kek, this. Our family computer in 1999 was a 56k modem Gateway that could handle Diablo II and Warcraft II, but certainly wasn’t equipped with a 3D accelerator or anything. I didn’t have an actual gaming PC until around 2003.

>>8987758
SegaNet ≠ Dreamcast. Online play on the Dreamcast didn’t require a subscription.

>>8987760
diablo 2 didnt even exist in 1999 and by the sound of it you had a PC

The Dreamcast was a good boy. He did what he could with the tools at his disposal. The Dreamcast was, just like the Saturn, competing with the last generation. The Saturn could outplay the SNES, The Genesis, the 3DO and even the Jaguar, but when faced with consoles of equal footing it got roflstomped. The Dreamcast answered that with a Roflstomp of its own, and in return was brought up against real competition. If Sega hadn't called it quits, it might've lasted just a little bit longer - maybe even long enough for a new system to be born.

Alas, in this timeline all we'll ever see is the Sega Dreamcast, and never the Sega Dreamscape. The Dreamcast is still a good boy, a good machine. From a a better time.

>>8987771
why is every DC fan a sentimental faggot like this. even god realized you dont deserve quads for being such a buttnugget. the DC was only alive for like 2 years anyway so i dont know when you even had to make precious memories worth being so obsessed with. the thing was a piece of shit dude, get over it.

>>8987786
mythmaking to cope with being absolutely mogged by sony

>>8987751
>>8987758
The Dreamcast was launched on September 9th of 1999. the PS2 was launched October 26th of 2000. The Dreamcast was discontinued on January 30th 2001.
The Dreamcast multiplat titles are all N64 and PS1 games, because that was what it was on market with. Every Dreamcast multiplat game on the PS2, GC or Xbox, were ports of previously Dreamcast exclusive games. The DC was never directly in competition with PS2, whether technologicaly or in terms of multiplats. Their timeline does not cross.
Seganet was Segas own ISP, in the vein of AOL, online functionality for games was free.
You are underage, and retarded. Discard your life with a bullet through your mouth before you waste everyones time opening it again.

>>8987806
DC was discontinued in march, not january lying faggot. that gives them roughly 6 months of overlap, not 3. doesnt seem like much time though, does it? oh yeah, that's because the console died such a quick and cuckold death that this 6 months also made up nearly 1/3 of its entire lifespan lmao. also the DC had N64 sloppy seconds because nobody was making new games for the console. the PS2 shared a market with N64 for 2 years and doesnt share almost any of the same games.
>You are underage, and retarded. Discard your life with a bullet through your mouth before you waste everyones time opening it again.
imagine typing this because you're angry that a children's toy from 1999 didnt sell well lol

This retard has already been told a number of times. Stop giving the kid (you)s, he will never get to smoke on an airplane or afford a house, his generation has nothing to look forward to.

>>8987862
t. mad about facts

>>8987769
What?

>>8987891
diablo 2 didnt exist in 1999
i said everybody had a PC in 1999, and you did, backing up my claim, despite your sttempt to refute my claim by sayinf "WELLLLLL I HAD A PC BUT IT WAS A SHITTY PC...". btw id take a hewlett packard from '93 over a cuck cast any day of the week

>>8987434
No, this is parroting.

Saturn development started in late 1991, but nobody in the company knew 3d at the time, except Yu Suzuki who was EXPERIMENTING with it (this experiment turned into Virtua Racing, which ended up so successful internally that they decided to release it). The Saturn hardware dev team interviewed the other developers inside Sega, everyone just wanted better 2d because that's what all the teams knew how to do. The only one who said to go for 3d was Yu Suzuki alone.
So the design team took the 2d engine and modified the sprite engine so it can do 4-point transformed sprites, which can sort of mimic triangles.

This was all confirmed with interviews made with the Saturn hardware developers.
The problem in the end wasn't this, it's that the architecture used too many chips and memory, and the 3d blitter had an extremely low fillrate and using any one of its features meant that 2 other features had to be turned off.

>>8987786
>>8987793
Same reason people that like the Jaguar and 3DO and Pippen. They had fond memories of it.

>>8987931
Let me throw this scenario at you, anon: The aforementioned Gateway PC that we had in 1999 was the very same PC we still had when Diablo II came out in 2000.

>>8987269
Sega knew that the Playstation was gonna be fucking huge. Sega of Japan wanted to make a joint console together with them, and brought the Saturn specs for them to see. Sony said no.
Sega of America entertained the idea too, but that was before that.
Also the Saturn hardware dev regularly had dinner with Kutaragi, who treated him like a joke all the time.

>>8987931
>id take a hewlett packard from '93 over a cuck cast any day of the week

No you wouldn’t.

>>8987951
yes i would. literally any PC made post 1990 would be more fun than a dreamcast

>>8983496
Yep. I still have that afterglow controller. It's outlasted my xbone controller and my series s/x controller. I don't abuse my controllers either, Microcock just sucks at making a good controller.

>>8987938
Provide source that 3D was late in development then

>>8988385
Also, the actual late addition was a second SH-2 chip
This rumour about the Saturn wasn’t designed for 3D started from its launch by Sony fanboys and I can’t believe it has still gone on this long

>>8981346
>over 100 games at launch
>no games
have you tried dying better yet die right now in this moment.
>>8981390
the ps2 is inferior to dreamcast in fact it will never reach the same specs.

>>8981365
They got to a point where they had a overstock of unsold Dreamcasts, and barely anybody was buying because it got BTFO'd by the PS2 over the holiday season — It failed.

>>8988550
>the ps2 is inferior to dreamcast in fact it will never reach the same specs.
you are fucking retarded
https://wars.locopuyo.com/cwsystemspecsold.php
PS2 BTFOs DC in basocally everything except shader and effect support, most of which it can brute force anyway because it's about x2 as powerful

>>8988550
Is this what cope means

>>8988557
I wish I could travel back to 2002 when I got a brand new Cast for $50 at Target.

>>8986559
>It was because the Economy crashed!
That doesn't explain how the pattern continues for years later even after the economy recovers. Nor does it explain how the PS1 sold better in the same period.
>The Genesis was still the best selling console in 93-94-95!
It was in 1993. In 1994 it barely beats the SNES in the US, but worldwide it's behind. And in 1995 the SNES surpassed it in the US.
>It outsold every console until 1996!
Let's actually look at those numbers. Sony sold about 1.7 Million PS1's in the US in 1995, Sega sold about 2.1 Million Genesis systems. Sure Genesis sold 400k more, but this should really set alarm bells off. In 3 months the PS1 sold 80% of what the Genesis sold in 12 months. The next year, both the PS1 and Saturn easily outsell the Genesis in both the US and Japan by a wide margin.
>It was sellling software reaching a million copies until 1998!
But almost none of those were first party Sega titles, while Nintendo's were first party titles. So Nintendo was making far more revenue from it's legacy 16-bit software than Sega was from theirs. And Sony was selling far more games in this period for the PS1.
>You're a moron who wasn't alive in this era!
I was born in the 80s and lived through this era. I remember it quite well. The fact is you're clinging to old meme tales of this generation that have since been proven false now that we have actual hard data on the subject.

The point is, by 1995 the writing was on the wall. The 16-bit generation was done and it was time to move on. Sure it could stick around as a legacy budget system, but it wasn't viable to be the main focus. People were ready for new systems and the PS1's success is proof of that.
>This thread isn't about the Saturn or Genesis!
Then stop trying to use the Saturn as a crutch to blame everything on. The reality is it's more complicated than that and a lot of blame falls on Sega of America as well. They weren't perfect and innocent in all this. They made a lot of fuckups too.

>>8988550
I like the way Dreamcast looks but that’s clearly not true
Just compare the PS2 Berserk game to the DC one

>>8986965
>Yeah, because they focused on new consoles instead of the Genesis.
Nintendo saw a similar drop in sales for the US market in this period. The 16-bit systems were hitting 5-6 years old at this point. The market was becoming saturated and dying down at this point. Just look at Sales for games like Sonic 3. It sold significantly less copies than the first 2 games despite massive advertising campaigns.

>>8982106
Bullshit
Shenmue was/is a dogshit walking simulator and a literal massive waste of money. Yu Suzuki peaked with super scaler games and it took until shenmue 3 being a flop for people to realize it.

>>8986948
Didn't Wii outsell all the competition despite being a glorified gamecube?

>>8986951
Dreamcasr unlike SNES had superior games to ps2. Ps2 DVD drive and Sega past fuck ups were the final nail in the coffin.

>>8988936
The PS2 library surpassed the Dreamcast's within a year.

>>8988618
You're correct in this case but that's a really bad comparison site. It doesn't even mention the PS2's VUs and most of the figures are just asspulls.

>>8989067
Not in arcade/arcade-style games. If you're into moviegame garbage or RPGshit though, PS2 would be for you.

>>8989102
>Not in obsolete coinguzzlers
Indeed.

>>8989076
prove that its an asspull. its the most well-documented comparison of their specs you can find, and you can reference the individual specs against searches for those specs on google.

>>8989103
Filtered by superior actual videogames.

>>8989130
Pretty much every row has something wrong with it.
>Xbox doesn't have an EFB, let alone a 64MB(!) one
>Xbox doesn't have a textute cache, let alone a 64MB(!) one
>Doesn't even mention PS2 texture read bandwidth, even though it's unusually good
>Xbox doesn't have anywhere close to 120GFLOP floating point performance. I don't think even the Xbox 360 does. Also this spec is misleading since it makes no distinction between CPU SIMD processing or GPU vertex processing and whether vertex processing is fixed function or programmable
>"Real world polygon performance" has no reasoning whatsoever. DC exceeding PS2 in this respect is particularly silly given that it depends largely on the above point too
>Total memory count ignores that 16MB of Gamecube ARAM is about 16x slower and basically unusable outside of swap/cache, but also forgets to add GC's 3MB embedded GPU memory and PS2's 4MB VRAM despite mentioning DC's 8MB VRAM.
>"Sound performance: 48"
>"Resolution in games: 320x240"
The whole table contains figures which are either flat out wrong, compares the wrong figures, or forgets to mention some of the figures that are being compared. If you know the first thing about specs, that table is a joke.

>>8989167
find one thing that's wrong on that spec sheet and give me opposing references from google. otherwise, you're talking out of your ass.

>>8989139
Sega was filtered by gamers.

>>8989174
Are you illiterate?

>>8981342
>Why did it fail so horribly?
It didn't.
It had a pretty good little run but Sega could not recover from previous losses.

>>8989185
no, but apparently you are. everything you said is subjective. i gave you a well-known source for spec comparison of each console and you reply with your opinion. none of that green text means shit unless you provide a source. look at the spec sheet i posted, find a particular spec for any console, google it, and give me sources that oppose the information on the spec sheet. if you cant do that, you dont have an argument.

>>8981342
It didn't fail, not really.
The Dreamcast is a really strange console. Frankly it sort of confirms how ignorant people are about business practices. SEGA was kind of riding on the hinges by releasing consoles in the first place.

People treat it like SEGA was the paramount company that wasn't anything like Hudson or some shit, no; not at all. To people who aren't from the markets where it was successful, SEGA was a hiccup in the home market.

>>8989221
Not him, but let me point out the most obvious bullshit. The original Xbox could do 20 GFLOPs, not 120.
https://gamingbolt.com/the-evolution-of-console-gpus-from-dreamcast-to-xbox-series-x
https://www.gamespot.com/gallery/console-gpu-power-compared-ranking-systems-by-flop/2900-1334/

what is the retro console from the 1990's for the gamer who hates nintendo, hates mario bros, hates the legend of zelda, hates Pokemon and hates all Nintendo

Nintendo is for morons

and I want a console from the decade of the 1990's to be anti-nintendo in everything.

>>8989310
fair enough, at least you provided a source. when the difference is that obvious and separated by a 1 like that i would argue its a typo more than anything. what else?

>>8989314
Faggot

I can remember being a kid and seeing the dream cast play booth at toys r us with sonic adventure loaded up. No one cared about sonic man. Crash and Mario were the SHIT. We had golden eye. We has syphon filter. We had metal gear solid. We had jet force gemini. 3D Megaman. We. Had. Fucking. POD RACING. By the time dream cuck was releasing games we were seeing shit like FF8 on PS One and then Perfect Dark. Those games looked fucking gorgeous! We could RENT games at blockbuster. We were still looking screenshots in gaming magazines and for upcoming titles the cast was a pass. No one is begging their parents for sonic when you could play crash fucking WARPED or MAJORA. To me its pretty clear. Think back!

Dreamcast fmv cutscenes looks absolute horrendous, like tekken 1 level of bad, why's that?

>>8989375
Probably just a lack of storage space.

>>8989103
Why do you even leave /v/?

>>8981342
It was extremely easy to pirate. A lot of Sega fans were burned with the Sega CD, 32X and Saturn. Confusing branding. Didn't appeal enough to kids. Coming mid-generation, a lot of families had recently bought other consoles.

>>8989067
Ps2 ports of dreamcast games were almost always worse and what games surpassed dreamcast? Final Fantasy? God of War? Those aren't very good games anon. Shenmue is a story adventure game which I usually hate but since it was made by Yu Suzuki it's good unlike most of your ps2 library.

>>8988861
>Shenmue was a flop so it proves hes he's hack!!!!
What a zoomer take. Shenmue is one of the best adventure games ever made. Sucks how they all end on cliff hangers but other than that what more should an adventure game offer you? Ryo driving forklifts will never not be fun. Driving a forklift in Gta3 is fucking shit by comparison and that's a maximum destruction sandbox type of game.

>>8988806
First off if you want to quote people, actually quote them instead of typing out like you're having an imaginary argument with them. I know voices talk to you in your maladjusted brain but you look like even more of a spastic than you already are.
>That doesn't explain how the pattern continues for years later even after the economy recovers.
Wow almost like the Saturn was a titanic flop everywhere in the world, and Segas export income declined along with it, even as the market recovered. fucking shocking!
>The next year, both the PS1 and Saturn easily outsell the Genesis in both the US and Japan by a wide margin.
The Saturn never oldsold the Genesis, ever. The fucking rebrand Genesis they released in 1998 sold more in that year alone than the Saturn did in it's entire life. Also nice job admitting it took until 97 for new consoles to outsell 16-bit ones. Really needed to rush those
>But almost none of those were first party Sega titles
Because Sega had force shifted all focus to the Saturn, which didn't sell at all, which generated a ton of backstock in warehouses which was the cause of your original schizo delusion that it was somehow old Genesis games. You are a legit fucking retard, who can't even keep his own bullshit straight. Sega doesn't produce any Genesis stock for 4 years but it still somehow fills up warehouses.
>you're clinging to old meme tales of this generation that have since been proven false now that we have actual hard data on the subject.
You not being able to read and creating theories with 0 basis whatsoever are not "hard facts" it's the idiotic babbling of the mentally challenged.
>stop trying to use the Saturn as a crutch
Sega was broke because the Saturn was a massive failure worldwide and the company had not made a profit in over 5 years as all income was used to cover the Saturns losses. This is factual, researched and proven. No matter what stupid head canon you make up will not change this. Unironically take your fucking meds.

>>8988058
Afterglow makea surprisingly good controllers. I have the wired Switch Pro Controller by them and it's been very good to play SNES and PS1.

>>8989431
not sure if trolling

>>8989431
You don't drive forklifts in GTA3 idiot. Expand your horizons beyond shitty walking simulators if you think Shenmue is a good game.

>>8989460
Who would want to drive a forklift when you can drive a kino baggage handler instead?

>>8989445
>Actually quote me!
Then the post would go beyond the character count.
>Wow almost like the Saturn was a titanic flop
Again, the declining revenue trend for Sega of America is still going before the Saturn had even launched in the region. The chart is only Sega of America so the Japanese market isn't a factor here. How can Saturn's failure in the west be the cause of declining sales in the US when it wasn't even being sold yet?
>The Saturn never outsold the Genesis, ever.
It did in 1996. Genesis sold 1.3 Million units in the US, Saturn sold about 1.5 Million systems in the US. If we then expand to world wide numbers, Saturn sold about 4 million systems world wide in 1996, Genesis sold about 1.5 Million world wide. So yes, Saturn did outsell the Genesis.
> Also nice job admitting it took until 97 for new consoles to outsell 16-bit ones.
Apparently 1996 is now 1997. Again, look at the actual numbers. PS1 was only about 400k behind the Genesis in the US in 1995 and that was only with 3 months of sales. That's a clear indicator that people were ready to move on to new systems. In 1996 PS1 sold about 4 million systems compared to the 1.3 Million the Genesis sold. World wide it was about 6.6 Million compared to the 1.5 Million the Genesis sold.
>Because Sega had force shifted all focus to the Saturn
Except this trend starts before that as early as 1994. Sega was still heavily producing Genesis games at this time as well as in 1995. In 1996 is when things start to get toned down. Yet the top selling games in the charts at this time were not first party titles, but instead third party titles from EA and Acclaim, like Madden, NBA Jam, Mortal Kombat, etc. Go look at NPD data from this time period. Sonic 3 and Sonic and Knuckles both barely broke 1 million copies sold in the US. That's a massive drop from what the previous 2 games.

The simple fact is Sega was losing revenue in software to third parties, and in declining hardware sales long before Saturn.

>>8989460
>you don't drive forklifts in gta3 idiot
Tell us more young one.

>>8989460
>Name a better adventure game than Shenmue
>ITS A WALKING SIMULATOR
Is that all you can post?

>>8989475
The dodo mogs all other vehicles.

>>8989496
>>8989445
>The Saturn generated the backstock in warehouses!
Yet there's no massive Saturn stock to prove this. US Saturn production total is estimated to be around 2 million systems, with a bout 1.7 million being estimated as sold. Software runs are even lower.
>Sega doesn't produce any Genesis stock for 4 years but it still somehow fills up warehouses.
Sega was still producing Genesis stock as late as 1997. We know this as we have Model 2 Genesis systems and US Games still being produced up to this point and being manufactured in the US and Mexico before Majesco took over in 1998. Secondly the overestimating demand and overproducing didn't happen in just 1996 and 1997. It goes back much farther to around 93-95. There were interviews years ago discussing that games like Shining Force II were severely overproduced as they over-estimated demand. Same with Sonic 3, Sonic and Knuckles, etc. Remember Iramajiri took over after Kalinske left at the end of September in 1996. Sometime after that is when he discovered the mismanagement of inventory.
>creating theories with 0 basis whatsoever
It comes from translated Japanese newspaper articles, interviews, sales data, etc.
>It was Saturn! This is factual, researched and proven.
Then why does the financial downturn start long before Saturn was even released and continue for a good year and a half before the Saturn comes out? To be clear, I am not saying Saturn wasn't a failure outside of Japan. I'm saying it's not the sole cause of Sega's financial problems and there's arguably culprits that are much more guilty.

>>8989496
>the declining revenue trend for Sega of America is still going before the Saturn had even launched in the region
Because there was a fucking economic crash that universally affected every entertainment industry around the same time you fucking retard. Notice that it continues to decline drastically because of the fucking Saturn, while every other company goes back up.
>Saturn sold about 1.5 Million systems in the US.
The Saturn never broke a million sales or even approached it, the highest selling year was it's launch and it didn't even sell 50k more units than the fucking 3DO did the same year. It was DoA.
>In 1996 PS1 sold about 4 million systems compared to the 1.3 Million the Genesis sold.
Because the Genesis was abandoned and all focus was put on the Saturn, which no one bought. A 16 bit console was still the highest selling, and still sold the most games. There was no rush or demand, which is why it took 2 years for the PS1 to establish a strong market.
I am sick of going in circles with you, you are either a deranged weeb, or an actual nip. I will repeat. Sega was broke because the Saturn was a massive failure worldwide and the company had not made a profit in over 5 years as all income was used to cover the Saturns losses. This is factual, researched and proven. No matter what stupid head canon you make up will not change this. This is why the Dreamcast died, this is why it's being talked about in this thread. Stop being retarded, stop making up bullshit, stop acting like a delusional teenage girl who throws a crying tantrum when someone points the Saturn was a failure and fuck off. Last reply you get from me.

>>8989503
shit bait
>>8989505
escape from monkey island
myst
broken sword
kings quest
Sam and max
grim fandango
sanitarium
I have no mouth and I must scream
indigo prophecy
syberia
blade runner
snatcher

>>8989524
>lists a bunch of point click games found from a Google search
These are your Shenmue killers? Yikes. And how do you not know there are forklifts in gta?

>>8989527
Yakuza is the shenmue killer but then that was SEGA so, yeah

>>8989527
I listed adventure games I've played. I'm sorry I actually play video games, I forgot that was frowned upon here.

>>8989549
Too much gameplay, needs more aimless walking and waiting for timers.

>>8989558
That is why it was the killer

>>8989523
>Because there was a fucking economic crash
For the United States your off by a few years there. The 90's recession was around 1990-1992. By 1993 things were recovering and by 1994 things were almost back to what they were. So that doesn't really explain the downturn in sales from 94-95. Now there was an issue in Japan with the value of the Yen changing which would have an impact on export costs. But that alone doesn't really explain the decline in overall hardware sales and software sales.
>The Saturn never broke a million sales or even approached it, the highest selling year was it's launch
From Sega's January 1997 DTS Newsletter as well as the full press release it's quoiting it states they sold 1.3 Million Saturns with about 1.2 Million selling through to consumers in 1996, and 5.5 Million Saturn games with about half being first party. Genesis they sold about 1.1 Million in the US and 3 million games:
https://antime.kapsi.fi/sega/files/DTS-0197.pdf
https://segaretro.org/Press_release:_1997-01-13:_Sega_tops_holiday,_yearly_sales_projections

So as you can see, Saturn did in fact break a million sales and did infact outsell the Genesis in 1996 in both hardware and software. My previous numbers were off by a couple 100k because I was having trouble finding this source and was going off of less accurate one. Still the point remains, we have Sega's total shipped numbers there as well as sell through to consumers.
>PS1 outsold the Genesis because the Genesis was abandoned and all focus was put on the Saturn, which no one bought
See above. It was time to move on. PS1 was selling because people wanted new systems, N64 came out that same year and outsold the Genesis and SNES as well. The 16-bit era was over.

>>8989558
>32yr old zoomers so filtered they walked past the arcade not realising what it was

>>8989747
That's true, the best part of Shenmue was just playing an emulated version of Space Harrier. Though you could just grab a copy of Yu Suzuki Game Works and trim the fat.

>>8981342
>Why did it fail so horribly?
Sega is a really stupid company that succeeds in spite of itself.

>>8981346
This guy speaks the truth. Dreamcast console sold too well. Dreamcast software did not. So SEGA was forced to either raise the price of the console or pull the plug.

>>8989821
I thought the Dreamcast had a good attach rate.

>>8989821
>Dreamcast console sold too well
beyond launch, no

>>8988385
>Provide source that 3D was late in development then

It wasn't put in there late. They designed it so it could do 3d by distorting sprites so they can be used as polygons.

>>8988406
>Also, the actual late addition was a second SH-2 chip
The hardware designers were interviewed, they said that they chose the SH2 because it had a link mode where you could put two chips in the same bus. Using two SH2s was there from the minute they decided on using SH2s.

The only thing put in late on the Saturn was the CD drive, and another megabyte of DRAM on a 16-bit bus.

>>8988931
The Wii wasn’t marketed as a powerhouse console. The Dreamcast’s big appeal for its first year was how much more powerful it was compared to the rest of the market.

>>8981342
cord at bottom of controller
instant fail

>>8990141
very stupid design but there's actually a notch on the back of the controller that you can push the cord into so it comes out of the front, as retarded as that is

>>8989375
It's because you are playing burned CDIs which had the movies recompressed to a tenth of their quality so they can fit the GD-ROM on a single CDR.

on a more serious note, it's because Dreamcast uses MPEG1 encoded movies. It's not strong enough to do more in software in 640x480. The other consoles had hardware accelerated MPEG2 decompression support. So yeah, it would only look as good as PS1 games most of the time.

>>8990137
>In the summer of 1993, a slight incident occurred. Sega stated that the performance of the SH-2 (25 MIPS) was insufficient for a next-generation home console (this was right around the time when Sega’s biggest rival Nintendo announced that they were including a 64-bit CPU as well as a graphics processor jointly developed with Silicon Graphics, Inc. in their next console, the Nintendo 64). They wanted to increase the performance of the SH-2 by raising the frequency. However, to do that, it would be necessary to re-examine the chip design, and the SH development group did not have the time remaining to do that.

>The decision of what to do was left for the top-level meeting between Hitachi and Sega executives that took place in Hakone in September 1993. The SH group had prepared a secret plan to resolve the “performance improvement problem.” Their solution was stated as follows: “If we use the multiprocessor function that is included in the SH-2, we can operate two SH-2s linked together. This should satisfy the request for higher performance.” Nobody had expected that the multiprocessor function, which they had been reluctant to include, would prove to be this useful.

>In this way, Sega’s next console, the Sega Saturn, came to be equipped with two SH-2s.