/vr/ - Retro Games

No such thing. If they were great them they're still great now. Maybe you mean games that weren't great but were impressive.

>>894252
Any game that involves aiming in three dimensions, but no right analogue stick compatibility for aiming purposes.

>>894252
>games that have NOT aged well
Jesus christ, this fucking term. I can't wait for 50 years in the future where people talk about every fucking game that's a decade or so back as being absolute shit due to imperfections, and thoroughly defecate on every game made in 2000s because
>muh standards have changed, no 3d walking movement, no sensation of touch, no "whatever edgy video game advancement occurs in 30 more years that becomes a basic feature"
I want to hate you all to death.
I'm trying as we speak.

>>894279
It's not just games. Once the film industry gets its head out of its ass about framerates, we're going to discover that literally every full length film made so far with the exception of The Hobbit has "aged" terribly.

I'm one of the few people to notice that they are already shit.

Define "aged well".
Do you mean gameplay wise? Nearly the entire beat-em-up genre fits, since the gameplay was simplistic and dull even back then.
Do you mean graphically? If so than ANYTHING early 3D looks like crap, and any 2D sprites before the SNES era were rough and generally ugly.
>HARD MODE:
I see. I'm guessing gameplay then? Well, pretty much any beat-em-up hasn't aged well. Any early 3D shooter that had you aiming up or down with the shoulder buttons haven't aged well. Most FPS games have not aged well, with a few exceptions that are still pretty awesome today(Unreal Tournament, Deus Ex, etc).

Seriously though OP, with a /v/ quality OP like that I don't think this thread is going to get lots of quality discussion.

>>894252
But Crash looks fine. What your problem mate?

If a game was shit/great 15-20 years ago, it's still shit/great now.

FF7 always looked ugly. Goldeneye always had awful controls. A good amount of beat-em-up's always had pretty repetitive and simplistic gameplay.

A great game is always great.

>>894287
You honestly have no idea how film works if you're complaining about frame rates.

>>894252
Fuck you.
It looks fine and it still plays as good as back then. I still play it occasionally, and it's still as fun as ever.
The N64 Zelda's on the other hand...

Old RTSs like the original Warcraft haven't "aged well" because they were pioneers and newer games have built upon this base.

Nearly every Atari 2600 game isn't very good nowadays.

Super Mario Bros. without the nostalgia glasses kinda fits, it's a generic and unremarkable platformer but the controls are so tight I'd hardly say it was bad.

Mostly they are game that suffer from the Led Zeppelin effect (so many people have stood on the shoulders of these giants, that everyone is so used to the height so much that it's perceived as normal)...

But objectively bad?

I can't think of any.

Then again this is a retro board, so we aren't the right people to ask...

>aged well
Not THIS again

Game's aren't cheese, OP. They're played for fun. I have fun with all kinds of games from different years, from 30 years ago to 2013.

It would be more interesting to discuss how and why something else did not age well. The games did not change a single bit. But you did, anon. You didn't age well.

>>894252
>Crash
>aging badly
What the fuck are you talking about? Crash aged almost perfectly.

Also, Dragon Quest 1 and 2.

>>894346
DQ 1 and 2 were always shit, don't kid yourself.

>>894303
You're the one with no idea if you think you can shoot good action scenes in 24fps.

>>894350
Point taken.

What about Goldeneye? Amazing when it came out, then Half-Life came out a year later and everybody realized how poorly designed GE is in comparison.

>>894298
Goldeneye doesn't have awful controls. Most people just used the pleb 1.1 control scheme.

>>894373
Good control is impossible without good framerate.

>>894351
>implying you can't

>>894372
>What about Goldeneye? Amazing when it came out

If the only thing you owned wan an N64 maybe.

>>894373
Perfect Dark holds pretty well but GE isn't that fun nowadays apart from Nostalgia.

>>894373
Goldeneye's controls were a lost cause due to Nintendo's inability to design a good controller.

It's okay if you emulate it using a dual-analog controller though.

>>894381
They even have to add ridiculous sound effects (foley) to all 24fps "action" (really "disgusting blur") scenes to compensate for the terrible motion quality.

24fps can't even show panning properly.

>>894372
Quake is older and better than either of those.

>>894403
You must be getting fat subsisting on that diet of ass burgers.

>>894403
...Sound effects are a bad thing now? WTF am I reading.

>>894419
You've obviously never seen a real fight. Real punching sounds nothing like it does in mainstream films. It's a fairly quiet slapping type noise not the "BIFF! POW! CRASH!" nonsense foley artists use.

You can't actually show real fights on 24fps film, so they add comic book sound effects to make it seem like the characters are in real danger.

>>894403
>sperging this hard

>>894436
Realism is boring.

>>894437
20 years from now, people will be talking about old movies aging just like we're talking about old games. They'll be just as wrong -- in both cases there is no aging and the bad stuff is always bad. In the case of movies the bad stuff is almost everything.

>>894403
2/10

>>894436
>real danger cannot be expressed at 24fps
6/10

>>894449
If all you can see is juddering blur because people still think shooting at 24fps is acceptable, then yes. Even some N64 games did better than 24fps.

>>894458
Go watch some Showscan, see what we could have had since the 70s if the film industry wasn't so cheap.

10/10, troll has killed the thread.

>>894479
This thread was stillborn

It wasn't really great at the time either, but now it's downright unplayable.

>>894287
but the hobbit was mediocre

>>894559
48fps isn't really enough, but it's a huge improvement over 24fps. There's no competition so it wins by default.

>>894298
What about Sonic Adventure 2? It was groundbreaking back in the day, but going back it has plenty of flaws, if still a fun game.

>>894252
Crash aged beautifully, don't know what you're talking about.
Got the wrong termL

>>894252
Videogames cannot age because they play the same they did in the past.
Try again and this time make a thread about how your taste in video games have changed over the years

>>894624

stop with the bullshit semantics

do we really have to go around saying "games that show their age?"

I used to feel the same way. That there's no such thing as games aging poorly. That the quality will always remain the same. In some cases I agree, while in others disagree. For example. I still enjoy games like sonic adventure 2 and donkey kong 64. I think that the people that claim those are poor games, have simply always had a distaste for them. On the other hand I was disappointed to find out that almost all of the gameboy games I grew up playing feel very shallow now. (except Pokemon) I used to love the Mario land games, and hold them in very high regard. Now I realize that they basically watered down variations of their console counterparts. They just felt very shallow. In short, I'm saying that there are some games that do age poorly. People just blow it out of proportion much of the time.

>>894304
>The N64 Zelda's on the other hand...
Ugh, you're one of those.

>>894578
>groundbreaking
>has plenty of flaws
This is exactly why the "aged well/bad" argument doesn't work.
>IT WAS AWESOME BACK THEN
why?
>IT HAD VERY BAD FLAWS
Why? What are you comparing it to? This is like being an architecht and finding the first example of a skyscraper (The home insurance building in Chicago, fyi) and going
"It was great back then! For its time, I mean! But now, its shit! Compare it to the Burj Khalifa!"

Of course, having hundreds of years of technology, trial and error, and natural innovations that came from constructing other skyscrapers.
In fact, there are only two areas of the world I ever see this argument pop in.
>Describing the physical changes in attractive/sexy celebrities
>video games
Both are stupid conversations, and you should feel badly for ever having to ponder this. If you thought the game was shit then, good. If you loved it back then, but see "flaws" now, it's because you don't know how to spot investments in a medium and are over-accustomed to being spoiled.

>Citizen Kane is shit man, that black and white film with terrible sound quality, but Grown Ups 2 ah man, DAT TECH"

Also, this is /vr/, not /v/, and I always love how the games discussed in these dumbass topics are always 90s games, proving the age range in this discussion.
MAN JOUST HAS AGED TERRIBLY
OH MAN THAT PONG, DAT AGING

>>894670
Who is that fox supposed to be?

>>894578

Sonic Adventure 2 was never considered to be anything special and was critically panned at release. You just grew up.

these threads are bad enough in /v/, i don't know why you would think it would go over better on a board that is exclusively about old games

>>894738
Why do you anon's love posting such blatant misinformation as if you aren't going to be corrected quickly?

http://www.metacritic.com/game/dreamcast/sonic-adventure-2

>>894436
>You can't actually show real fights on 24fps film
Actually, you can. The problem is that real fighting usually involves lamely slamming into each other and grunting until some runs out of energy or dies. This isn't exciting - so cut the exciting sound effects.

NOBODY fights the way they do in 60fps fighting games in real life.

>>894670

>>894396
>It's okay if you emulate it using a dual-analog controller though.
You don't need twin analogues for FPS games. The Dreamcast port of Half Life proved this. And Perfect Dark\Goldeneye\etc, are perfectly playable if you change the settings so aiming is done with the analogue stick, and movement with the C-buttons.

>>894817
>DC Swirl:90
>The 2nd best "Sonic The Hedgehog" game ever after Traveller's Tales' "Sonic R" for Saturn.
>Sonic R
>best
...

>>894831
>moving with right fingers
>aiming with left fingers
all of my nope

>>894843
It's a matter of practice. Look at guitar playing. Playing notes with the left hand and strumming with the right is arguably fundamentally wrongheaded, since you're forcing your left hand to perform the more complex tasks.

It's like inverted aiming. It might piss people off, but if they're forced into it, they'll adapt.

>>894854

>tapping the arm is harder than picking the strings

Ok, I give up.

>>894869
>>tapping the arm is harder than picking the strings
Arranging your fingers into chord sequences is much harder than strumming. Finger picking is a different skill entirely.

I can't think of a game that was great when it was released, and is not great now. If it was great then, I'll like it now, if it sucked then, it'll suck now. I don't know what made me grow up liking the look of retro graphics, but I do, and it annoys the hell out of me whenever my friends mention "I can't play this, it looks so terrible." I'm not even that old; I'm 22.

>>894942
The kind of games which "date" IMO, are ones built upon a gimmick.

>>894998

>>894854
>implying left handed guitars don't exist
>implying that left handed people have an advantage in guitar playing by picking with their non dominate hand and that there is no reason for left handed guitars to exist

>>894308
Led Zeppelin were just another boy band putting an acceptable face (i.e., a white one) on blues-influenced rock music. See also: The Rolling Stones.

Goldeneye and Banjo Kazooie. I used to love them, but these days... Bleh.

Mario 64 OTOH, has aged brilliantly. The graphics were never impressive, but the gameplay holds the fuck up.

>>895038
Look at the racial masochist over here.

I'm willing to bet you're White, you self-hating Europhobe.

>>895058
>likes to listen to white men pretending to be black
>calls me self-hating

games DON'T age. people age, and their standards change.

>>894264
Back in the 1300's eating dirty potatoes that were boiled in water was considered a great meal. It was great then but now it's not so great because we have more things to choose from and we have evolved our tastes.

Things do age poorly just like movies and music and all inventions. The wheel made of stone was a great invention at the time and made modern civilization possible, but if you took your modern car down to the tire shop and had them install solid rock wheels you would say, hey, this is shit.

>>895084
Yes, but the gems of food... a honey and creme cake made for a king was exquisite, and would be just as amazing today.

>>894252
Games dont really "age". What actually happens is that people often treat undeserving games as if they were amazing at the time of release, either because of hype or because they did not know any better (possibly because they were kids). When you look back, you only see the mediocre game and will think it "aged".
Early 3D is the most obvious example. It was a novelty, so games like OoT or any other big franchise that moved to 3D were highly anticipated.

>>895069
Im not a fan of that band at all, but that is one of the most retarded tropes in all of music. Most rock and pop music is based on rhythms brought over from Africa by black slaves. So if you have an issue with blues rock, you have an issue with all rock and pop.... oh one electronic music too.

>>895095
and*

>>895090
So wait, people are mad because of the term "aged" ? Obviously the game didn't change in any form it's just that when it was released we all thought it was good. Now when we go back and play it it seems terrible because we have way better games and some games even seem unplayable. A good game is always a good game, like Yoshi's Island, because compared to what we have now it's still pretty awesome. So when we say the game has "aged" poorly what are we actually referring to? I like to think that the we have newer, higher standards for how fun a game should be and how it should be presented.

>>895101
>I like to think that the we have newer, higher standards for how fun a game should be and how it should be presented.
Except modern standards are in some case so low they border on retarded.

Games do not age. They are exactly how they were when they were released.

What changes are player expectations and skill.

>>894403
Unpopular opinion alert

I agree

>>895106
We have reached a point where we expect clear graphics and a decent frame rate. I mostly played my SNES even as new consoles came out and I didn't have any problems, but recently I started buying some N64 games I used to enjoy and they are borderline unplayable most of the time because of the frame rates. I mean, they are still fun but I was playing bomberman hero today and the graphics for the lava and the water are just so bad that my eyes hurt if I play it too long. I think it's just a matter of what we expect as a norm when playing a game. Some games are terrible that get released simply because they have bad game controls.

>>895115
What about my animu? It's often animated at 12fps.

>>895116
>the graphics for the lava and the water are just so bad that my eyes hurt if I play it too long.
Minecraft must make your brain bleed.

>>895118

More frames = more fluid animation

Animating at 12fps is a cost cutting technique so they can produce more material faster

>>895101
The only thing I think seems worse in retrospect were console JRPGs.

Now looking back, while a bit complicated to use, PC Western RPGs based on DnD were superior in every way.

>>895038
The Yardbirds yeah. Not Led Zeppelin.

>>895125
I know, dude. And in fairness, a lot of anime switches between 12\24fps depending on animation fluidity requirements.

>>895101
The thing is that standards didnt really change, either. Or at least I dont think they do. I got pissed off by tank controls back in the day, and I still do today. The same goes for bad camera controls, and all the other things commonly associated with early 3d.
A game would have to be very exceptional to age due to higher standards (for example, a cruddy game that becomes the start for a popular genre or something). But when people talk about aging, they usually refer to games that didnt do anything like that.

>>895127
Actually you're wrong because all the good jrpgs were mostly on the psx.

>>895147
I think he's saying that console JRPGs are inferior to western computer RPGs from the same era.

>>895120
minecraft is fine, it runs smoothly (go watch a youtube video of bomberman hero in the big sand flowing level)

>>895145
standards have definately changed. If tomorrow sony said they have a game that looks and plays just like mario brothers 3 I dont think it would be received too well because now anybody with a computer can make a basic game like that.

We learn on what other people have spent their lives creating and discovering, like how Einstein spent all that time making his formulas and now they are taught in grd.11 physics and we can understand them. For me, aging is just a matter of how fun the game is and how well it can stand up against what games are out today.

>>895156
Was he? Can't blame me for being confused by his wording.

>>895164
It was rather confusing, but I think that's what he was saying. Personally, I disagree. JRPGs in the mid-90's contributed greatly to videogames as a storytelling medium.

>>895048
I think Kazooie and Tooie hold up better than Mario 64. All of them are great games though.

>>895158
>looks and plays just like mario brothers 3
The NSMB series has some pretty crazy sales and they are pretty much SMB1 remakes from a gameplay perspective.
And of course some aspect of visuals age, but thats purely technical limitations.

>>895179
I think those games are garbage compared to the controls of Mario 3 (this is a largely biased opinion because I regularely do speedruns of Mario 3), as far as mario controls go I would rate them 3>World>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>1(can't turn around in mid air which bugs me) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nsmb series

>>895189
I dont know if you are the same guy, but they still are well received. I do not know what is causing people to ignore their flaws, but I wouldnt be surprised if the kids that are currently playing them started to claim they aged bad in a decade.

>>894670
>"It was great back then! For its time, I mean! But now, its shit! Compare it to the Burj Khalifa!"
Well... yes. you could look at the Empire state and say ''yes, this building is an inferior office building to modern designs''
Whereas you could look at say, the sydeny opera house and say ''Yeah, this is still a pretty ballin opera house''
That doesn't mean the empire state is worthless, it's still functional and historically interesting as one of the first skyscrapers, but you couldn't really compare it to a modern design.

>>895206
I really can't comprehend how they are well received because when compared to World or Mario 3 they just seem so , easy and boring.

>>894546
That game is awful. No matter how fast you go, the turning stays the same. You can be running at a hundred miles an hour and make a perfect ninety degree turn. Sonic just feels weightless.

Loved it as a kid, nostalgia brought me back, but playing it again was fun at first but became an intolerable chore by the time I got to Gloomy Galleon.

>>895245
I agree, I tried it again and the
"going back as another character to collect the different fruits" got old pretty quickly.

A lot of N64 games haven't held up well IMO. I still really enjoy Kazooie though.

>>894351
Gee, why don't you watch any good action movie ever and get back to me on that.

>>895089
You just made his point even further.

>>895156
Yes, I believe while Western RPGs were more clunky, they told better stories and were better experiences.

I mean, all I had to compare at the time, was the stories of Double Dragon and shit like that.

>>895224
Couldn't you say the Empire State building is a pretty ballin' skyscraper, and the Sydney Opera house is inferior to modern designs? Comparison like that is folly and completely relative.

>>895084
>Back in the 1300's eating dirty potatoes that were boiled in water was considered a great meal.
For beggars. Not even peasants ate that bad. And you also just made that up.

Good food has always tasted good, and bad food is bad. Meals prepared with fresh ingredients taste objectively good, as long as the food isn't completely foreign to your palate. If our tastes have evolved SO much, why does soup taste great? Why does steak still taste delicious after 5000 years?

>>894252
Id read Andy Gavin's blog and read his story on the development on the first crash. It will blow you away, they practically reversed engineered the Playstation and when they showed exec at Sony, they didnt believe the PS1 was capable of graphics that crisp and thought they were using something else. In fact, Sony started development on a game to compete with Crash and had to cancel it because they realized even they didnt know how to program that well for the system yet.

TL DR, an internal team at Sony in San Francisco tried to make a game to compete with Crash but had to cancel it because they couldnt make it look like Crash.

>>894271
>tfw using L1 to aim up and L2 to aim down

>>895374
I didn't explain myself very well.
You look at the Empire state and say ''this bulding is poorly insulated, it cannot handle internet infrastructure, it's elevators are slow it is a poor office building''
You look at the opera house and say ''It looks good, It can hold many people, it is a good opera house''
An Opera house and an Office building are judged by different criteria, hence an old Skyscraper will generally be inferior to a new one, an Old Opera house could very well hold its own against a modern one, the point is that some classes of buildings benifit from advancing technology more than others, an outdoor ampitheatre could still be good thousands of years later, an Airport might be obsolete withing a few years of it's construction.

Simarly, games of different genres are judged by different criteria, and therefore some benifit more from advancing tech than others.
Goldeneye: The framerates are low, the controlls are clunky, the environments are small, this is a poor FPS
Final Fantasy VI: The Charaters are memorable, the story is engaging, the cast is diverse, this is a good RPG

Am I making sense? I'm not saying that FFVI is perfect, there are plenty of flaws with it, it's just that these flaws don't really hurt the overall experiance that much because the core of the game is about the plot and the characters, those core elements would not be greatly improved by better technology. You could hold up FFVI to a modern RPG and say ''these are both good games, one of them has prettier graphics but that's not what an RPGs are about'', it aged well.

Goldeneye, on the other hand is an FPS, the game would be greatly improved by higher framerates and better controlls, you hold it up next to a modern shooter and say ''Well yeah, that one has worse controlls and low framrates, why would you play that?'', it aged poorly.

Sorry for the rant.

Note: I realise quality is subjective, and thus this entire thing is subjective

>>895727
That last line.

>>894308
Old RTS are so hard to play now. I find it funny that Dune 2, for all its innovation, is not half as fun to play as the first Dune, which is a great game.

Games don't age, you have only become more entitled

>>895670
Tomb Raider ?

>>895084
Potatoes are still top tier food, and eating dirt helps prevent allergies and autoimmune disease.

>>894756
you seriously have autism. can't you even discus the content of this thread, rather than attacking OP's character?

>>895084

Man stone wheels and automobiles are like leagues apart. Like Stone wheels weren't even used anymore with the horse and carriage, they had wooden wheels. Your analogy would have made more sense if you made the comparison to wooden wheels with automobiles because the early automobiles used them.

>>894308
>Super Mario Bros. without the nostalgia glasses kinda fits, it's a generic and unremarkable platformer but the controls are so tight I'd hardly say it was bad.

You do know that it is one of the first Sidescrollers ever right?

>>894817

I guess I was thinking of >http://www.metacritic.com/game/gamecube/sonic-adventure-2-battle

I'm reading this thread and are you guys seriously saying "no game can ever age badly, you're just becoming pickier and more entitled"?

I and my brother have played a ton of old games, ones from our childhood and ones we've never heard of before but sound neat.
7th Guest was fun, despite the game's age making it crash randomly and glitch up the graphics during some puzzles, making it needlessly difficult and making us absolutely hate Stauf. It wasn't SCARY, but it was a fun experience and we beat the whole thing.
Glover was fun despite some control issues at first, but we keep losing track of it so we have yet to beat it.
Alone in the Dark had such clunky shit controls that we couldn't get out of the first building before giving up.

If I say Alone in the Dark aged poorly, that doesn't mean I'm shitting on the other two or old games as a whole. Alone in the Dark just aged like shit. Back then it was considered a great game, but now playing it is a painful chore.

>>895038

I think you should stop parroting what your hipster friends tell you and actually listen to some of the music you're referring to

>>895245
The only thing that bothered me was the length, it was far to short of a game.

You can get 101% within a few hours.

Great game, thou. I don't see what you guys mean by 'not aging well'. It just seems more like you guys are taking the rose tinted goggles off and criticizing, not that it 'aged badly'

>>894738

It wasn't panned on release. It generally received good reviews and was considered an improvement over the original.

>>896228
Just because it was first doesn't mean its still great. I grew up on it. I didn't buy it from a flea market 6 weeks ago. Its fun for a minute but no I'm not going to sit for hours and play it. That being said that's why i enjoy emulators and quick save because i already grinded through these games before. Now i just want to play nes instead of angry birds.

>>896271
that's not retro...

Fallout 1 and 2 i'd list are games that haven't aged well. They're good games in their own regard but they're really horrible looking these days and there's alot of cumbersome tricks you have to do to get things to even go right.

On the other end of the spectrum you've got games like the first three Heroes of Might and Magic that still look and play fantastic even to this day. Street Fighter 2 is still fairly good as well for the most part.