/vr/ - Retro Games

>>8946167
I don't think it's bad. It's extremely simple but that's the essence of the Japanese RPG.
It doesn't really feel janky like a lot of other early RPGs, including DQ2. It's just a quick, very simple but very pure JRPG experience.

japs cant into rpgs without ripping off western works like ultimate and wizardry. and reasons for it far more political that will get me banned if i talk about it

It’s a basic introductory rpg. The sequel built upon it and improved vastly. The third game built upon those previous and expanded its gameplay also. You can’t have the third one without the foundation laid by the previous. They don’t suck and at the time, console rpgs were bare bones anyway.

>>8946167
or, hear me out, maybe you're just a retard

>>8946167
Fagotted, ADHD take.

>>8946167
wasn't the big deal with dragon quest that it was a console rpg that could be enjoyed by casual players?

I've only played 1 through 5 and 2 was my favourite.

Once in a while I still load my end game save in 2 and do some grinding. One day I'll reach the level cap.
Also I swear to god ene day the Mysterious Hat will drop. One day.

The first one is great though. There is something incredibly soulful and comfy about it I can't explain.

>It's a "Bash popular game with my contrarian opinion" thread on /vr/

>>8946167
I don't agree at all.
It's the one I remember most fondly from playing the first three a couple years ago.
I think it's great.

Dragon Quest and its consequences has been a disaster for the RPG genre.

>>8946490
Essentially, yeah, but it still confused a lot of people back then and it needed Shounen Jump articles and a strategy guide to make people understand it, and I think the Toriyama attachment help push it.
DQIII is when they really came into their own, commercially and artistically.

>You will never get into DQ in the 80s when it was the shit.

I've never played these games but something about the first one looks very peaceful and relaxing. what's the best way to play it?

What's wrong with DQ2 again?

>>8946584
It's not even a contrarian opinion. In all the dragon quest groups I'm in I and II are always below the classics, III, IV, V, and VIII. Anybody who thinks they need to start at the very beginning of the series is doing themselves a disservice, since the series only ever gets better with each entry. You might as well start somewhere good.

>>8946810
Nothing really. People get filtered by the end game, as if end games weren't supposed to be challenging. Probably the same people who claim the games are "spam attack to win".

>>8946781
DQ3 didn't really bring any novelty besides being able to changes classes. It's DQ2 which was the giant step forward and which helped define a standard and tropes for the entire genre.

>>8946490
Yes, but by today's standards, DQ1 would be too outdated for most JRPG fans. It still uses Ultima commands, it's only got 1 party member, it's got plenty of cryptic stuff, there's no linear paths or map markers, progression is gated heavily by grinding, etc. DQ1 is more accessible than computer games, but that doesn't mean it's fair or modern by RPG standards. Final Fantasy 4 is something that a casual could play, DQ1 is something that a casual might be able to tolerate for the first 1 or 2 hours before it gets too obnoxious.

>>8946805
You either play the NES version, Dragon Warrior, or you don't play it at all. The entire point of the game is the grinding, which is heavily cut down in the remakes.

>>8946869
good to know. no NES anymore but maybe ill try emulating it later. looks like it would be comfy to play on a phone inbetween doing a little creek fishing on a sunny day.

>>8946864
I'm a JRPG casual and I enjoyed the first game a lot. Played the original with a guide. And I mean the ORIGINAL, not even Dragon Warrior
>https://www.romhacking.net/translations/5416/
If you feel like replaying DQ1 you can try this

>>8946869
Kill yourself

>>8946996

The Western releases of DQ1 and 2 are a lot improved over the original Famicom ones not in the least because they had battery saves instead of 60 character passwords.

>>8946860
>DQ3 didn't really bring any novelty besides being able to changes classes
what about being able to travel all across the globe?

>>8946167
The first one was quite good compared to what it was evolving from. I don't think you truly understand just how BAD turn-based RPGs could be. I don't think you were even born in that era.

I've played 1 and 2 and I have the actual cartridges of both but never cracked 3 or 4.

>>8947094
Already done in DQ2.

>>8946167
A bolt statement.

>>8946869
The translation is fucking atrocious though. I much prefer the GBC version.

>>8946167
Let's be honest here: The first one sucked shit and only got good at the third one.

>>8947556
but that's not the third one?

>>8946869
Make a mod that gives all the NES games an all-purpose action button like their remakes do and sure.

>>8947628
That shouldn't be a hard thing to do actually.

>>8947628
It's been a while since I played them but didn't Dragon Warrior 3 and 4 already have this?

>>8947692
You need to go through the menu to talk, open doors and search.

>>8947571
This unironically is the first good FF game

>>8947698
At least using the stairs was automatic by that point.

>>8947698
>>8947629
Trying to wrap my head around it actually, I just thought of a problem in DQ4, there is at least one moment in the game when you need to talk to someone and then search on the same spot. Couldn't do that if it was one button for all.

>>8947716
Can't you just face away from the NPC and then search the ground?

>>8947698
Oh right, I remember in the Famicom version of the first game you also had to choose the direction of something/someone you want to interact with

>>8946167
It was literally the first JRPG so I can forgive the simple gameplay and grindfest. 2 was arguably worse in terms of grinding. The end game difficulty spike was bullshit.

but yeah DQ3 (snes) is the best game in the series that I have played so far

>>8947725
Yeah but you'd need to walk away and then walk back to the spot from either direction, making sure not to face the NPC, sounds janky.

However, one solution of course is to leave the command in the menu, the one-button all being just a bonus. Also, I seem to recall that in the SNES game the search command is more leniant; that in some cases it actually searches both on your feet and in front of you.

>>8947741
The first JRPG maybe, the first RPG made in Japan no

>>8947070
They were balky as hell.

>long password saves
>graphics artifacts when walking around the map because they were CNROM/UNROM and have a fixed mirroring direction
>nonsense words for spell names (this bit borrowed from Wizardry)
>worse graphics in Famicom DQ1 including characters only facing one direction

>>8947745
That's literally what I said. the first JRPG. There was no real precedent or standard that was already set so I can't really blame them for bad design choices like the overly expensive gear that required gold golem grinding to get.

>>8947751
>nonsense words for spell names (this bit borrowed from Wizardry)

I think those became standards later on. At least with nonsense names you have an incentive to look up spell description in the manual/guide; some of the Dragon Warrior spells names were misleading. I spent 1 game and a half thinking the Inferno line was a fire based spell, because Inferno=Hell=fire. I thought it was weird that it worked on fire based enemies but what the hell, didn't think much of it.

DQ3 and 4 have no differences in the Famicom and NES versions because by that point Enix knew they would get an international release.

>>8947775
actually, apparently you get more exp and money in DW3 compared to DQ3. +50% according to TCRF.

I thought DW3 was balanced perfectly personally. Still needed to grind a bit for money in places; and the game could be challenging just enough when it wanted; so I can't imagine what's the Japanese version like if it has such a lower exp/gold yield

>>8947741
>>8947745
>JRPG
This shit has been bugging me for a long time. For me EVERY RPG made in Japan is a JRPG. I mean by that logic games like Ys aren't JRPGs

>>8947775
DQ3 had an entire power-on sequence added for the NES version.

>>8947786
>+50% according to TCRF
Are they fucking lying again? It's +25%. TCRF is an amazing website but they get some shit wrong sometimes.

>>8947794
Ys is an ARPG

>>8947828
Yes. It's an ArrPeeGee.

>>8947828
Nigga I don't even... Yeah it's an action RPG. You do realise that DQ's combat system was inspired by Wizardry, right? Is it a JRPG series as well?

>>8947705
2 is very underrated and is actually my favorite if we're talking about the original NES trilogy

>>8947745
Remap the menu button to B and keep the manual action commands intact there while having A as the all-in-one action button. I think that's how the GBC games did it.

I like talking to npcs in the first one to get to know where to go. Real adventure-like

>>8947828
Actually it is an JARPG, mmh.
Ok, buddy?

>>8947716
I had a problem with the Switch remake of DQIII where I had to show someone a key item.

I was using one of the NES (no reason I just like the way they feel) but “a” would automatically talk if I was in front of an NPC instead of owning the menu.

I had to switch to a regular controller so I would have a menu button.

>>8948007
Erdrick Trilogy on the Switch are ports of the mobile games actually, not remakes exclusive to the Switch. Meanwhile on the Wii: a physical copy that includes both the Famicom originals and the SFC remakes

>>8947705
That would be Final Fantasy 1.
FF1 still holds up ridiculously well, even with the numerous bugs.

Wizardry + Ultima + Blue Hair => "JRPG"
pretty straight lineage

>>8946167
I played the GBC version, it held up pretty good and was a fun game

About to beat III. It’s the first jrpg kept that kept me interested enough to keep playing. what should I play next? Something shorter but similar focus on gameplay and party customization and not making you sit through walls of text. The thing I love about this game is just how much it can communicate in 3 or 4 sentences.

>>8948261
This. But play the PS1 version if you want the definitive experience.

>>8946167
The GBC version of the first game might be my favorite game in the series. Hero is a one man army, fucking machine, gameplay is extremely tight. I wish there were more JRPGs with single player/enemy parties, too. Makes the game so much faster.

>>8946167
Got my copy for free from Nintendo Power when I was 7. Timeless classic.

>>8950208
DQ4. There is a bit more text but not that much.

In the last chapter, everyone is AI controlled except the hero. I thought it was surpringsly good but if you don't like it there is a gameshark code to turn that off.

whats the first dq that had animated enemies

>>8950671
The remake of 3 on SFC I think

>>8950671
DQ6

>>8950208
V and VI are my favorites. VI is kind of like the inverse of III (begins linear, then goes open world), with the class system of III but improved, and with the monster recruitment of V

>>8950671
4, when Psaro transforms into his second form.

>>8946873
thats literally how i was playing smt for years now. quick sessions when im watering plants in the summer. good thing about rpgs on phone is that a lot of them can be played with one hand on touch screen

>>8946167
Its true, they didn't know what they're going in the second one. Final Fantasy 1 wasn't even out yet and they had party combat. At least they figured out their fuckups

>>8946167
Maybe if you're a zoomer idiot.

>>8947628
>I love old games but I hate playing them!
Lazy as hell. It's not even a long game. Just play something else if menus are such a turn off.

>>8950827
oh yeah that moment was kick ass

When I saw that I was imagining the jaws of japanese kids dropping playing it in 1990

4 has such a great roster of great looking and souful enemies. It's a shame chapter 1 to 4 can be annoying at times (starting from lvl1 every time, the fucking merchant quest)

>>8951212
i think the worst part of NES DW4 is that you have to rely on the stupid AI shit

>>8951912
The AI was so infamous that spin-offs openly mock it (mostly Kiryl's constant insistence on throwing instant-death spells that won't work on bosses).

>>8947751
>graphics artifacts when walking around the map because they were CNROM/UNROM and have a fixed mirroring direction
You still get graphics glitches at the top and bottom of the screen on US DW1 and 2. I'm pretty sure they kept the fixed vertical mirroring from the Japanese games.

>>8946167
DQ1 is so primitive even compared to RPGs from an entire generation before that I can't comprehend how it became a franchise.

>>8951925
>>8951925
the Famicom games all have vertical mirroring but three of the four US games set horizontal mirroring. DW1 does also blank the left side of the screen to cut down on graphics artifacts which is common in games that use horizontal mirroring. yeah I know ASIC mappers would let you set the mirroring direction in software but the vast majority of games run in a fixed mirroring mode. for example SMB3 and Kirby's Adventure are MMC3 but always runs in H mirroring.

>>8947751
I don't think DW1 was any better with spells like HURT, HURTMORE, HEAL, HEALMORE. they look like placeholders.

>>8951921
The AI actually learning was a cool part but enforcing it was retarded.

>>8946860
DQ3 literally had two world maps.That was pretty fucking revolutionary at the time.

>>8946313
I'm willing to bet you have never even played the original NES version where you can't do so much as use a staircase without opening up the menu.

Famicom DQ1 had a gimmick where if you select Yes when the Dragonlord asks if you want to join him, it goes to a kill screen and gives you a password. If you reset and enter this password, it starts you with a new game but you're penalized by having lower than normal stats and the gold in the king's throne room is missing so you have no money to buy weapons with and you'll have to just beat up Slimes with your bare fists until getting some. It was removed from the US game possibly because the English text took more room and they needed the ROM space for that.

So if you didn't know, in DW1 you get different starting stat distribution depending on your name (only the first four characters are significant). Your starting HP, MP, strength, and agility all vary slightly based on that.

>>8951949
DW2 has vertical mirroring in both the US and Japanese versions all the others switched to horizontal for some inexplicable reason.

Enemies start running when you're at least twice as powerful as them (as well as be repelled by Fairy Water/Repel). Thus Blue Slimes will run from you at Level 5, Red Slimes at 6, Drakees at 7, Ghosts at 9, Magicians at 10, etc. This wasn't in DW2 onward I assume because you have a multi-character party and it would have been too hard to get that to work.

>>8946167
Lets be honest here: You have no concept of why its the way it is.

Yes, compared to III its not that good, and even now its a bit dated if you go back to it, especially the NES release.

But every single JRPG you ever played owes this game for its existence, being the literal beginning of the genre.

Hell its not even that bad, just lacking in substantial content and is very grind heavy with the NES version.

Dragon Quest I crawled so Dragon Quest III and other popular JRPGs could sprint.

>>8952383
>Hell its not even that bad, just lacking in substantial content
That's the point. There's nothing really to do in the game. There's like three plot points/quests in total.

>>8952406
>get princess (actually optional and you can beat the game without her)
>get crap to make Rainbow Drop with
>get Erdrick's Armor

@8946873
@8951098
weird samefag schizo

I've never played DQ3 and 4, I honestly couldn't tell you a thing about them.

>>8952406
How old are you? Did you play this when it was new like me? If not then you need to stfu because you're making an absolute ass out of yourself.

WHAT
the
HECK
was the fighters ring for

>Remember, silent and black and white films are SHIT. You're not allowed to enjoy them for what they are and taking their time period into account, ever. You are not allowed to put yourself in other time periods and enjoy things. When you do, you are harming absolutely no one, but you offend me because I have no sense of empathy or imagination. Also you might be racist.
If someone made an argument like this to me, I'd stab the fucker in his throat and bury him in my back yard. Deep, I own an excavator.

1 > 2 > 3

3 is "any rpg you've played that lets you create a party, but for retards"

>>8950208
Dragon Quest IX. It's not retro but it's basically the sequel to III in terms of party customization. It has the best battle system in the series.

>>8952713
Just like the Dragon Scale gives you a slight defense boost, the Fighter's Ring was supposed to give your attack a slight boost, except it's bugged and doesn't actually work so it's useless and you can just sell it for a small amount of money.

Also the Magic Armor is functionally useless since it's fucking expensive and you can just skip to Erdrick's Armor.

>>8951936
Yeah yeah we get it. It doesn't use a separate button for every action imaginable therefore it's primitive compared to *insert any unplayable western garbage for computers here*

>>8952804
You better have a cheating device if you're going to play IX, because a lot of the game is walled behind an online service that doesn't exist anymore. And even when it was active, it was shit because the regular DS wi-fi only worked on WEP, which nobody in their right mind uses.

>>8953137
>therefore it's primitive compared to *insert any unplayable western garbage for computers here*
If you are under the age of 18 please discontinue using this website.

>>8952767
DQ1 was already Ultima 1 but with all the fun, complexity and soul vacuumed out.

>>8953853
overrated series anyway

The first super Mario sucked shit and didn’t get good till the third one, too, what’s your point

>>8952406
Isn't that the point?
Its short, but its very consistent, and is good at what it does consistently.

And as you go further into the series, you see that the consistency was the core concept that was expanded upon.
One example is that in DQ1, the small stat upgrades you get per level matter a lot since its basically a resource simulator where you don't know the operating costs of new areas. In the following games the same is true, where getting a level unlocks new shiny stats or new shiny spells for the magic users. Thats true even for DQ5-6, where monsters are more stat block dependant and far bulkier than the humans.

>>8953853
>press this button to open doors
>but press THAT button to open chests
Very complex system, not for console casuals who are into Dragon Quest

>>8955768
The first two Mario games are fun, same with Zelda and Dragon Quest. Also there were Persona games before 3

>>8956895
The first two marios are not fun and neither is the first zelda

>>8947751
Discreet mappers on NES are limited since you can only have one game engine while MMC1/MMC3 let you have multiple engines.

>>8956813
I mean, if you think the fun of the game is attacking wild monsters, sure I guess. For most of the series, it's the story, the sense of exploration, and the branching decision paths that make the game fun. Yes, combat and stat levelling are fun too, but they're not the main draw of the game, while in DQ I there's barely anything else but this. If you want a simple RPG like that, just go play the first two FFL games.

>>8957728
The best part of DQ1 to 4 were exactly the fights for me. Unlike in later gens, good Famicom jRPGs manage to make random encounters engaging. In those games you're often not really allowed to make a mistake and take the wrong decision in battle unless you want to spend your entire time backtracking to heal.

>>8957748
I'm not impressed that you are good at random encounters.

>>8957018
Stupid post

>>8957728
>FFL
What's that? Final Fantasy Legend?

>>8950817
VI is the closest Dragon Quest ever came to being Final Fantasy.

>>8958343
Yeah, it's one of my least favorite DQ games

>>8946167
The third one was also the last good one.

>>8946167
Ever played Ultima or any RPG that came before? DQ is gold in comparison to those shitfests.

>>8946167
1 is good and one of the few jrpgs were there is some valuable resource managment the whole game.

2 is dogshit

3 is THE jrpg

>>8958562
Ultima was always shit gameplay wise but the classic Wizardry 1 aged fine.

>ultima's overworld + wizardry combat system = Dragon quest
Thank god it didn't copy Ultima's shitty combat

>>8958562
People like to pretend that it's not the case and also claim that shit like Dragon Slayer is better than Zelda. Popular thing bad, less popular thing good

>>8947556
FFI is (far and away) the best game in the series.

>>8947556
Well said mate, job system was kino, too bad shit like 4 and 6 set the standard for gay character shit instead of cool job systems

>>8952349
One of my favorite things about Dragon Warrior is that the treasure chests respawn. I guess there isn't enough memory to keep track of how many and which chests are open, so after I think 8 or so (it's been awhile since I played) you can go back to, say, the Mountain Cave or Tantagel and the chests are ready to be opened again. There's a way to farm easy gold with it in the castle but I'd rather fight goldman.
>>8952862
Do you do the Dragon Scale glitch? It's only 2 extra Defense but I have to do it every time. It's hard to pass up.
>>8957728
RPGs are about power fantasy. If you don't care about stats and leveling up and training hard, you are probably a normalfag with a wife and kids and a house and a fulfilling job, which begs the question: why are you playing RPGs, which are designed to make weak and sad people feel powerful in ways they can never physically be?

>>8946167
>bad jrpgs with no story/characters and awful shallow combat

They are ALL bad, held up by nice artwork and occasionally decent music.

>>8958578
>3 is THE jrpg
Honestly 2 is the jrpg. I'm not really a big fan of the original version (the SFC one is good though) but it introduced practically every element that is still used in turn-based jarpigs today

>>8957876
Yes. It's my favorite simple RPG series. If you want an RPG mainly for the pure battle/progression mechanics, it has some of the most interesting ones, with different classes (humans, mutants, monsters) having different methods of progressing and different mechanics. It's designed to be able to just pick up and play so the story is minimal but the action is always interesting. And there's so many different RNG mechanics that you pretty much always end up with a totally unique run every time you play. Mutants learn spells randomly and gain different stats randomly, monsters transform into other monsters, and humans level up by potions allowing some stability among the random mutants and semi-random monsters.
>>some other guy
>RPGs are about power fantasy. If you don't care about stats and leveling up and training hard [...] blah blah blah etc
I do care about that. But the first one is the worst for that.

>>8960201
This. I have no idea what people have against DQ2. I hate the "filtered" meme but in this case they're probably just mad they got filtered by the Path to Rhone and couldn't find the Sun Crest despite an NPC telling you exactly where to look.

>>8960218
Those games have always looked interesting to me, I'll give them a try someday

>>8958578
You're delusional if you think DQ1 has better combat mechanics than Ultima 1 or 3

>>8959385
Correct. The NES has only 2k of RAM so there's not enough space to hold all the status flags for every chest you opened.

>>8961294
and yet other games did it...

Not trolling though they might have used the extra RAM from the save RAM to do it. With that said, shouldn't a single byte be enough to store 256 item status (chest or otherwise)? Even if my math is wrong, considering how few chests there are in DQ1 a single byte should have been enough so I think it could have been done.

I think the real issue was having to save that in the password for the original version. IIRC the first one that didn't have respawning chests was DQ3 (someone correct me if I'm wrong) and coincidentally it was the first one to have saving (not passwords) in Japan.

>>8961326
The first two games were CNROM/UNROM originally so the game engine was only designed to use the built-in 2k RAM. They added 8k RAM for the save game when converting them to MMC1 for the Western release. but it's not used for anything else. DQ3 and 4 used the same cartridge hardware in Japan and the West so that extra 8k RAM was always there and the engine made use of it so you don't have respawning chests anymore.

>>8961326
According to the RAM map here

https://datacrystal.romhacking.net/wiki/Dragon_Warrior:RAM_map

there are actually a lot of unused RAM addresses. Definitely MORE than enough for the chests.

So again if it boils down to a "technical issue" I think the issue was they didn't want to bother having to come up with a password system that uses so many variables.

That's assuming it boils down to a technical issue and isn't just a conscious design choice to help players earn gold or because some other older RPGs they liked did the same thing