/vr/ - Retro Games

Gamers got suckered into Nintendo and Sony's style over substance pseudo-gaming viral marketing while Saturn had actual fucking games.

>>8920893
>sgeafags are still in denial
LMAO

>>8920903
>BAWWW GRAFX
>>>/v/

>>8920902
all those epic image galleries and mahjong games im missing...

>>8920903
...emufags...we lost...

$1 billion dollar marketing budget vs. $10 million marketing budget. Look at how well the PS5 is selling despite it being a complete piece of crap

>>8920910
/vr/ is just lite /v/ because most here is actually genuine, a lot of you are still the same retards who hide behind 20 layers of irony and constantly shitpost.

No addictive blending, no transparencies (*), weird looking polygons. That's why it failed.

>>8920910
/vr/ is just lite /v/ because most here aren't actually genuine, a lot of you are still the same retards who hide behind 20 layers of irony and constantly shitpost.

Also Sega Saturn had barely any big 3rd party support and no, 2D fighting games or platformers isn't exactly what I call big.

>>8920893
Virtual Hydlide and stuff like that were in magazines. I didnt want that, I wanted starfox and resident evil.

>>8920893
>port machine
Both the N64 and Playstation had actual games made for them

never got into saturn stuff just because no retail joint carried them really. but I always used to think " man that controller looks sexy"

>>8921082
>resident evil
>starfox
re is on saturn and theres also the better starfox (panzerdragoon)

>>8921080
>no 2d fighting games or platformers
talks about shitpost, makes literal shitpost.

>>8921086
nice meme, back to redit

This forced meme has been going on for too long.

>>8921103
Okay, give me all the biggest 3rd party support games that were made for the Saturn that made people buy this system.

>>8921107
not huge fan of 2d fighting games, but you can't say theres no 2d fighting or platformers games on the saturn, keep on shitpostin'

>>8921129
>but you can't say theres no 2d fighting or platformers games on the saturn
Reread my post again, ESL.

>>8920893
>Why did it fail despite having better games than Playstation?
Because in reality the Playstation had better games.

>>8921137
yes im retarded, but theres still 3rd party games on it

>>8920975
>>8920903
can the saturn not do transparency?

>>8921201
Can you?

>>8920893
>despite having better games than Playstation?
It didn't.

>>8921201
It can but only sometimes. Also blurry composite output hides the meshes most of the time.

>>8921246
are there any filters or anything on scaler devices to make it look right? like on ossc or something

>>8921246
Maybe if you have a really blurry CRT TV, composite alone won't mask anything.

>>8921254
You are incorrect, the TV has almost nothing to do with it.

>>8921246
the tv is the only thing that makes big changes, I'm using a flatscreen trinitron with scart

>>8921201
yes it can

>>8920893
>Why did it fail despite having better games than Playstation?
the moment Sony announced that the PlayStation was going to be $299 vs the Saturn's $399, the Saturn was doomed, the whole early launch fiasco didn't help matters either

>>8921258
Composite won't make meshes blend, only if you have a really blurry CRT TV that creates an effect similar to gaussian blur. Even gradients done with dithering pattern meshes are obvious with composite. Been listening to this sorry ass excuse from Sega fans for decades.

>>8921258
you are retarded, in this pic>>8920975, i have my saturn plugged in with scart

>>8921310
Why do those mountains look like a pair of ass cheeks?

>>8921352
you need to stop browsing /b/ and /gif/

>>8921310
>Composite wont make it blend
>uses RGB capture from an emulator
Composite most certainly will blur dithered meshes, especially with NTSC signals. There's some arguments that it doesn't work well for PAL, but who really gives a shit about PAL with retro systems anyways?

>>8920893
bad press in Europe and the USA

$100 price difference at launch, which in today's dollars would be more like $200.

sony was also a much bigger company with a much more extensive infrastructure in many other countries so they could afford marketing bigger and in many more places.

>>8921420
>bad press in Europe
no, the saturn was actually quite popular in eu

>>8921370
some games are better in pal

>>8921352
Anyone whose played both versions of EWJ knows SNES is worse in every single way.

>>8921436
By the time the PS1 launched in the US Saturn's price was already lowered to $299 thanks to the VA1 revision and falling RAM prices.
>>8921461
Only Eurotrash games. Which no one cares about those.

Is this a decent option for pseudo saturn
https://www.ebay.com/itm/185230995629?hash=item2b20a0b0ad:g:0r8AAOSwX9tgkpol

>>8920893
PlayStation games had more mainstream appeal and licenses.

>>8921201
It can but it is limited and slow and requires you to use very specific setups in your graphic paths that may not have good performance. The system wasn't built in a way so it can do all effects in any mode, instead it had like 30 different graphic paths and all had different pros/cons.
For transparency you can do like four things. polygon-on-polygon transparency is what devs wanted, but it was ultra slow, had a pixel overwrite bug (it makes anything that isn't a rectangle look like ass, worst case is the Riglord Saga 2 ending but I can't find good videos of it except on Nicovideo), and it was opaque if the polygon in question was on empty space that would've been filled by a background. The second way was polygon to background transparency, this took a polygon and a background and mixed it together - but anything inbetween the two disappeared, Guardian Heroes is the easiest example, any transparent fx will cut a piece out of the people it covers.
Then you had background-to-background mode, background overlays (these were straightforward), and two different shadow modes, the more useful one having the caveat of not allowing any other polygon transparencies.

problem is that the polygon chip was extremely slow, so programmers had to offload as much to the VDP2 as possible. Which meant that you couldn't use polygon transparency, only background transparency, which limits your game design extremely. It's like trying to do transparent polygons on the SNES.

The Saturn gpu was this stupid maze of options where every graphic path gave you different possibilities. Devs did not want that, they wanted 1 mode that does it all and is fast, and that's what the Playstation did. Only a few wizard coders pushed the Saturn hard enough with stuff like Sonic R, and that game used *multiple* different render paths depending on how far a polygon was. It was absurd.

>>8921249
one of the emulators, SSF, has an improvement that turns meshes into real transparency.

>>8921308
>the moment Sony announced that the PlayStation was going to be $299 vs the Saturn's $399
Nah, that wasn't really the problem. There was an expectation that the console business only had room for Sega and Nintendo so the Playstation would be doomed to humiliating failure just like the 3DO and Jaguar. $299 was a big gamble because the Playstation's future was extremely uncertain. $399 for a Saturn seemed like a more stable investment because it was motherfucking Sega and surely it wouldn't prematurely die or anything. What really fucked it over was a combination of its botched launch, the complex architecture making developers avoid it, and its weak specs. The Playstation's rise is really a direct result of Sega and Nintendo both simultaneously shitting the bed.

>>8921469
>Anyone whose played both versions of EWJ knows SNES is worse in every single way.

for the first game, yeah, for the second one the SNES is overall the best. Saturn has better CD audio (but the backgrounds are reworked and they kind of suck) and Megadrive has a unique special effect in Villi People (blind cave salamander level). But overall the SNES takes the throne with Saturn version worth owning as an audio CD.

>>8921517
>Only Eurotrash games. Which no one cares about those.
you don't care about rayman?

>>8921095
RE sucks on Saturn. Panzer Dragoon is gay

>>8921761
>RE sucks on Saturn.
no

>Panzer Dragoon is gay
says the furry

>>8920903
Booba doesn't lie

>>8921617
The 32X I think really did the most damage to the Saturn. It split resources away from prepping the Saturn for a good US launch. This forced Sega to have to launch early after the 32X failed to try and sweep the 32X under the rug. This also meant they had to launch at $399 as the VA1 revision wasn't available yet and RAM prices hadn't started to come down yet. It also resulted in certain games like Daytona USA getting rushed out for an earlier than intended release, as well as releasing with the buggy original port of Virtua Fighter instead of Remix. It also meant there was almost no western developed software ready for launch.

If there was no 32X, Saturn probably could have launched in September of 1995 at $299 with a more polished port of Daytona USA, Virtua Fighter Remix, as well as decent versions of games that ended up on 32X instead like Doom, Star Wars Arcade, Chaotix, Stellar Assault, etc.

>>8921594
>one of the emulators, SSF, has an improvement that turns meshes into real transparency.
was hoping thered be something for real hardware. I assume we will get something like it eventually though with all the scalers on the market atm

>>8920893
Because the PS1 actually had better games than the Saturn, only problem the PS1 had where 2D fighters which sucked dick, but the sheer amount of top notch 3D fighters made up for it.

I’m a Sega fag and I love the Saturn but it’s easy to see why the PS1 sold better. Because it’s a better console made by a competent company.

>>8922741
>only problem the PS1 had where 2D fighters which sucked dick
>implying SFA3 and Darkstalkers 3 sucked dick
Get a load of this faggot

>>8920893
https://youtu.be/ExaAYIKsDBI

>>8920893
i love the saturn, but it didnt have games and it cost too much, thats why it failed in the west
thats ultimately due to sega being retards, but still

How mad are sega fanboys Sony absolutely destroyed their consoles and childhood?

Probably even more mad than nintentoddlers who's childhood got destroyed by PS1 nuking N64 from all angles.

>>8922781
I think he’s saying they were gimped versions in comparison to the saturns

>>8922825
N64 fans aren't mad like Saturn fans, but they are heavily deluded.

>>8922825
I wasn’t mad at all. I was always Sega + Sony.

>>8920903
To be fair to the devs here, imagine having to flag every single pixel for transparency
Fuck that, I'd leave it as a dither pattern too

>>8920893
>better games than Playstation

>>8920893
saturn games where turds ported from the arcade at a time when nobody gave a shit about the arcades

>>8922979
You don't have to do that? The transparency flag applies to a whole sprite, same as the mesh flag.

>>8921761
>RE sucks on Saturn
It's the best console version, moron

It cost $100 more.

>>8922759
>Because it’s a better console made by a competent company.
Not really, the PS1 is really finicky (all early models have broken lasers) and the company is only "competent" because they have/had a lot of money to burn because it's a multicorporation, they're not a video game company like Sega.
Anyway I'm really tired of playstation fans who need to constantly remind people that their multicorp took over. Yeah, congrats, your giant conglomerate demolished a soulful vidya company, happy?

>>8921370
The searchlights not adding up looks weird as fuck.

>>8923161
In all honesty though, SEGA games suck in general. Not saying Sony is awesome now, but if you compare the PS1 to the Saturn, there is no competition. But those were different times. Now we have zoom zooms to pander to and now everything looks pink and turquoise and everyone is an sjw with a mohawk in video games these days. It's really gay actually

>>8923161
Sega had an overwhelming advantage over Sony in the console market and lost because they completely fucked up as hard as possible. You can call Sony a multicorporation all you want but when the Playstation launched it was the soulful underdog of the 5th gen.

>>8920893
>nooo nooo NOOOO IT HAD BETTER GAMES IT WAS OUR TURN SATURNBROS
it's been almost 30 years already, let it go

>>8922837
Saturn fans aren't really mad. There just seems to be a handful of shit posters on this board with a hate boner for the system who keep making weekly "Sega Shitturn sucks" and "Shitturn can't do Transparency lol!" threads. When those threads get deleted, they then flood into any thread having a casual discussion about the system.

Naturally people are just getting sick of it because it basically means you can't have any kind of discussion about the system on this board without it being derailed.
>>8923164
To be fair, spotlights in real life generally don't look like what you see on PS1. They typically just overpower the ones behind them. It's only in movies where it's been faked with CGI or an old practical effect that you see something like we see on PS1.

>>8923161
This is a thread comparing a Sega console to a Sony console. Don't hate on people responding to it with facts.

>>8922781
Compared to the Saturn version, yes they suck.

>>8920903
I actually prefer the Saturn version of X4 to the PC/PSX versions because the backgrounds in some stages are animated. https://youtu.be/XgnEHV_pVm0?t=336

>>8923251
>the billion dollar megacorp underdog
Get a load of this faggot

Saturn has the best game of all time

PS1 has... uh... jarpig, jarpig, jarpig, the list goes on...

>>8924209
>Garegga
Overrated jankshit.
Raiden DX on the PSX shits all over it.

>>8920893
The Saturn was a mistake. If Sega had released the 32x as a budget cd console they would have won the gen.

>>8920893
Here’s the Saturn’s downfall: Sega banked heavily on their arcade ports being a big selling point in a time where CD based consoles were starting to offer more narrative driven games that you couldn’t get in an arcade.

>>8924275
That would have been an even bigger failure. No one wanted the 32X. That goes for both consumers and developers. There's plenty of interviews from Japanese Sega devs who were pissed that their projects were moved to the 32X, as well as Western Devs who flat out wanted to develop for the Saturn instead and were going "wtf are they doing?" when they heard of the 32X.

The fact 32X failed right out the door and wasn't selling is proof it was the bigger mistake. That misread of the market by Sega of America did far more damage to the Saturn than any of the hardware designs Sega of Japan made.

>>8924295
It really all comes down to how well managed Nintendo was and is by comparison. Sega was always wasting money on new hardware releases while Nintendo stuck with the SNES and put chip upgrades in the cartridges instead.

>>8924295
Yeah the add on was a bad idea, but making a stand alone console that was largely a mega drive 2 would have gone over a lot better. Also it would have been out on the market much faster and would have stopped the PS1 from gaining as much traction.

>>8920893
Because it did not in fact have better games than PlayStation.

>>8924313
I’ve always thought the Saturn’s demographic tended to skew a little bit older compared to the PS1 and N64. It was a great console for 20-somethings into arcade shmups, fighting games and Japanese imports, but if you were a 13 year old in 1996, that stuff wasn’t as appealing.

>>8924275
Agree. They should've released a combo system that included all the components of the 32X, Genesis and CD whose games could also work on the add-ons if you chose to buy those instead of the new console. SEGA would've crushed the Playstation into irrelevancy.

>>8924301
Nintendo dabbled in just as many new hardware releases, they just didn't release most of them outside of Japan.

>>8924303
>>8924360
>Also it would have been out on the market much faster and would have stopped the PS1 from gaining as much traction.
>SEGA would've crushed the Playstation into irrelevancy.
No. The actual 32X launched around the same time as the PS1 launched in Japan, and was horribly underpowered. If you think Saturn was underpowered, a stand alone console version of the 32X would be even worse. The best that thing can do is what we see with Doom Resurrection, and that's with a ton of crazy optimizations.

The best you could hope for with games beyond Doom would be maybe Tomb Raider running at <15fps at best. The PS1 would have curbstomped it.

>>8920893
>fail
not in japan

>>8924598
>around 6 million Saturns sold in japan
>not a failure
Lad...

>>8924598
The world would have been a much better place if the FagStation had never been released and Sony stuck to making televisions.

>>8924598
this is bs, the saturn was huge in europe

Quality doesnt correlate with sales, which has been made readily apparent by Sony's entire time in the console industry.

>>8924619
nintendo being selfish, greedy and egocentric = good?
result: 30 years of zelda,mario, pokemon and smash

sega being dumb = blame sony?
result: their downfall

sony being open minded and let the developers do whatever they want = bad?
result: developers, players, investors... everyone is happy ???

the end consumer is not that dumb.

>>8924643
Yeah with only the official sega magaz and no TV commercials existan whatsoever

>>8924673
>Yeah with only the official sega magaz and no TV commercials existan whatsoever

https://youtu.be/4w4bOnt_Q-o

https://youtu.be/ckoq0C05jCA

https://youtu.be/hEUmg0mpPRE

kys amerimut

SEGA was an arcade company and they saw their consoles as a way to bring the arcade experience home. Some of the best selling games on the Saturn are Daytona and Sega Rally.

But the best selling game on Playstation is Gran Turismo, a racing game about grinding. Truth is the market was moving on from arcade games and wanted more "console" style "experiences". The market was just leaving SEGA behind. I'm not saying one approach is better or whatever, but people wanted different games. All the meme answers about the 32x or the hardware probably did not help, but at the end of the day it's all about the games. If the Saturn had games people wanted, they would've bought it.

SEGA did try to appeal to the market by funding a Jarpig here or there and later with the Dreamcast with Shenmue, Sonic Adventure and so on but it was too late.

>>8924751
sega always tried to be ahead of time and always tried, and did, good stuff, even tho it was quite expensive

>>8923753
>the billion dollar megacorp underdog
It's 100% true. Sony's only experience in the vidya business was producing some support chips for other consoles, a disastrously failed collaboration with Nintendo, and publishing some games under Sony Imagesoft. They were a complete underdog to Nintendo and Sega who both had a wealth of experience and fucking dominated the market. People thought it was literally impossible for a third console to succeed.

>>8924664
>Quality doesnt correlate with sales
But developer support sure does and most developers said fuck the Saturn

>>8921104
I stated a fact, not a meme
This shit console has no exclusive games made for it that are good
Most of them are shitty rpg or photo idol shit

>>8924751
>but at the end of the day it's all about the games.
This usually isn't the case as far as video game generations go. And using a game that was released after the Saturn was dead as your example certainly doesn't make for a convincing argument.

>>8924857
Lad, Sony had (has) so much money compared to Sega if they'd have proven any kind of obstacle they could easily have just bought them outright. There was no way they were ever going to lose that battle.

>>8921628
I was filtered by ewj2 shitty isometric level. Never beat it and don't care to. Ewj1 is the only game that matters to me.

>>8924867
I see that you don't know shit about the saturn library

>>8921856
>more polished port if daytona
Why was their rereleases of daytona even worse?

>>8924898
Because they weren't made by AM2 and were basically Sega Rally hacked to look like Daytona USA and have the Daytona USA tracks. They did at least look and run better than the original port, they just didn't play and feel like Daytona.

>>8923150
Poor cope

>>8921789
Why are you posting gay furry porn while calling others furry? This is classic projectu6

>>8923161
>soulful vidya
Back to pleddit

>>8924669
Isn't Sony censoring japanese games nowadays? Doesn't sounds very "let devs do what they want"

>>8925136
After the PlayStation headquarters moved to California they really doubled down on censorship of pretty much everything, even more than how much they did it before

>>8924619
>FagStation
Yeah that's about the level of intelligence I'd expect from a poster like (You)

>>8920893
both are good
>>8923003
Japan acknowledges arcade design as fantastic and they have better taste than American "people" who thought EGM opinions were worth trusting + it would've likely done relatively better if a million 2D games weren't prevented from coming out in the US

>>8921469
stage 2 music on the SNES is much better, and the lighting effects using the larger palette are nice, though overall the MD one is better

>>8924669
the PlayStation was the beginning of the end. Everyone knows it in their hearts.

>>8924885
>muh money
It didn't matter how much money Sony had. They couldn't buy their way into the market. The Playstation succeeded because it was CD based, it was easy to develop for, and the competition shot their own dicks off.
>if they'd have proven any kind of obstacle they could easily have just bought them outright
Holy shit you retard, Sega wasn't for sale. Buying them wasn't an option.

>>8925124
weak cope, go play ur gay starfox

>>8926128
starfox and panzer dragoon are equally good

>>8926142
>starfox and panzer dragoon are equally good
starfox is a blury mess with bad fps and shitty music with shitty playability, panzer dragoon is better

>>8926147
I'm emulating it so slowdown is not an issue

>>8920903
The lack of transparency isn't even that bad in this example. It would be hidden by the display at the time. But the lack of shading on the characters is what really kills the port.

>>8924880
It's ALWAYS about the games. People just buy a console to play the games.

And it's just the strongest example of what the market liked at the time, so it's perfectly fine to use.

>>8920893
does it? from the looks of it, as someone who never played it originally, it seems to have no interesting games besides sonic adventure, crazy taxi, soul calibur and a few more. While playstation has dozens of cool games

>>8926404
You're thinking of the Dreamcast.

>>8926404
dreamcast has more cool games than the ps

>>8926409
>>8926436
name actual games, or else i'll assume i'm right and you're fanboys with no facts.
PSX has dozens of good games, that's facts. Even if you're not particularly fond of said games, the sole fact that you have whole franchises like crash, spyro, digimon, monster rancher, final fantasy...
How can dreamcast even compete? enlighten me

>>8926448
To be fair the Dreamcast had some definitive versions of games like Soul Reaver and THPS1+2. The originals it had like Crazy Taxi were fucking amazing too. And unlike the Saturn it had a good architecture and developers actually liked it. It was the greatest console to ever have its life cut short by retarded business decisions.

>>8920893
>Sega game console
>Nintendo Life
What's going on?

But seriously, it was more expensive than the Playstation and had less retail distribution.

>>8926448
>How can dreamcast even compete?
Shutokou battle 2
Sa
rayman 2 (best version)
hydro thunder (better on the dc)
shenmue
skies of arcadia
crazy taxi
quake 3 (has more polygons tham the pc port)
sega gt
vf
ecco
f355
jet set radio
tr
msr
sega rally 2
daytona 2001
18 wheeler
propeller arena

how can the ps1 compete?

those are just my fav, just go watch a top 20 dc games

>>8926448 #
>How can dreamcast even compete?
Shutokou battle 2
Sa
rayman 2 (best version)
hydro thunder (better on the dc)
shenmue
skies of arcadia
crazy taxi
quake 3 (has more polygons tham the pc port)
sega gt
vf
ecco
f355
jet set radio
tr
msr
sega rally 2
daytona 2001
18 wheeler
propeller arena

how can the ps1 compete?

those are just my fav, just go watch a top 20 dc games

>>8926569
>how can the ps1 compete?
It did.

>>8926062
>They couldn't buy their way into the market.
That's literally what they did though, paying off Publishers like Psygnosis, Namco, Squaresoft and Eidos to work exclusively on the Playstation, and giving them access to their extensive music library rights.

>>8926062
>Sega wasn't for sale. Buying them wasn't an option.
So Sega wasn't for sale despite them spending the 90's attempting to merge with Bandai, and then attempting to sell themselves to Microsoft. Holy shit nigger you're the dumbest retard in this thread.

>>8926571
gaystation fags are delusional

>>8926448
You do realize the console in the picture is a Sega Saturn, not a Dreamcast right?

>>8926572
It's funny how people try to downplay the power of money.

>>8920893
Very few games got brought over to the West. I would've loved to have Radiant Silvergun back then, among others. I blame SEGA for this.

I enjoy my Saturn for what it is, but its a lesser machine than the Playstation. Both graphically and especially the game library.

>>8926727
>graphically
saturn is graphically superior to the ps1 tho

>>8920893
The standard account is that it failed not due to its hardware but to bad business decision after bad decision by Sega.

>>8926584
>So Sega wasn't for sale despite them spending the 90's attempting to merge with Bandai, and then attempting to sell themselves to Microsoft.
Please stop posting, Anon. You're embarrassing yourself. Sega didn't attempt to sell themselves until long after the Playstation was released. If Sony had offered to buy Sega at any point from the 80's to the 90's they would have been laughed off the face of the Earth. Sony's top brass would never have agreed to buying Sega anyway even if it were possible, which it wasn't. Ken Kutaragi had to fight hard internally just to keep the Playstation project alive. Its success is an underdog story whether you like it or not. Now go learn some history.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_(console)#Background

>>8926774
>The standard account is that it failed not due to its hardware
Its shitty hardware played a huge roll in its failure because it repelled developers. But I guess you could argue the shitty hardware was a result of bad business decisions.

>>8926774
Even Sega themselves (via Hideki Sato's interview, designer of the Saturn and the rest of Sega's consoles) admit that it was a problem of software as to why the Saturn flopped and Sega inevitably had to exit the console race.

>>8926742
heh

>>8926850
I think it's overrated. The PS2 had complex hardware as well and it did fine.

Please... do not compare a turd to a masterpiece. PSX and Saturn can never be compared. There's a reason an executive said "Saturn is not our future". Burst your Sega Saturn-bubble already.
Join Saturn+Dreamcast in an attempt to make a fair comparison with the PSX. Even so, it's still a shameless comparison, as the PSX alone outsold Sega's last two consoles... and when the dreamcast was discontinued, the PSX was still going strong.
Bring the N64 + Saturn + Dreamcast + Gamecube + Xbox combined to compare against the PSX. Unbelievable... but still it's not a 100% fair comparison because the PSX alone has sold more than all these consoles put together and has more valuable and memorable games than all these consoles. mind blowing, right?

So please let's make fair comparisons for the sake our dignity as fans. Inferiority is the cause of every failure.

>>8926869
>brown and grey movie games
Not a single good game on here

>>8926572
Psygnosis and Eidos released games for both the Saturn and N64. Namco released two N64 games, licensed Ridge Racer to Nintendo, and supported the Dreamcast. Even Square wasn't entirely exclusive since FFVII and FFVIII were ported to Windows. Congratulations on being wrong and gay, Anon. Are there any more errors you'd like to make today?

>>8926868
Exactly, the bigger issue was the 32X diverting time and resources away, resulting in an awful launch in the US and Europe. It started out in a bad position and never recovered.

>>8926897
Actually there isn't a single movie game on there. Even MGS isn't a movie game. The war is over. The Saturn lost. It's time to stop being bitter.

32X did nothing wrong.

Saturn should've been delayed so that it could be given a video chip that was as good as if not better than the PSX's and redesigned internally so that it wasn't so much of a costly clusterfuck to manufacture. That was the real problem with the Saturn -- games for it were not only more difficult to develop but also looked and ran worse than what you could be playing on Playstation -- and why *it* killed Sega.

>>8926921
MGS is a movie game. So are the jarpigs, storyshit, muh cinematic platformers, and walking sims like Toilet Hill
None of these appeal to hardcore gamers

>>8926921
MGS has like 4 hours of cutscenes

>>8926937
32X diverted resources and games away from the Saturn. If those resources and games were put into the Saturn as they should have been, the system could have launched with a much stronger line up of software that would have looked much better than what we actually ended up having.
>Saturn needed delayed to get better hardware!
Wasn't going to happen. Sega needed a new system in 1994 for Japan, the Mega Drive had been dead there for years. And the Saturn's hardware is no where near as bad or underpowered as you may think. It just has it's own set of quirks and trade-offs as every system has in every generation.

If the system sold well enough, developers would have supported it with games. PS2 is evidence of that. And a better launch would have given a better first impression and would have lead to stronger sales.

>>8926868
The PS2 had complex hardware but you could shit out something playable while letting most of it go to waste. There's a ton of hastily made shovelware that squanders VU0, VU1 and DMA which plays just fine.
Saturn needed every scrap of performance in order to fulfill the potential of 3D games. It couldn't afford to waste performance because of its complexity, unlike PS2.

>>8926969
>32X diverted resources and games away from the Saturn. If those resources and games were put into the Saturn as they should have been, the system could have launched with a much stronger line up of software that would have looked much better than what we actually ended up having.
No. 32X was to buy Sega more time as an intermediary between the Genesis and their next system. As long as it was selling ok in the west, it wouldn't have been that big of a burden on Sega to ride only on Genesis/32X for longer than they did so that the problems of the Saturn could be further ironed out so they'd stand a better chance against Sony.
>Wasn't going to happen. Sega needed a new system in 1994 for Japan, the Mega Drive had been dead there for years.
That's pretty retarded. You're going to kill your successful, booming western market in the hopes that your next console will somehow take over Japan? Risky bet, and another reason why Sega had to eventually fold.
>And the Saturn's hardware is no where near as bad or underpowered as you may think. It just has it's own set of quirks and trade-offs as every system has in every generation.
Show me a multiplat 3D game that was better than its PSX counterpart. You can't, because its hardware is objectively inferior for non-sprite-based games.
>If the system sold well enough, developers would have supported it with games. PS2 is evidence of that. And a better launch would have given a better first impression and would have lead to stronger sales.
PS2 was a) able to ride off the coat-tails of the massively successful PSX and b) able to be sold also as a DVD player. Sega didn't have the same luxury. Also, I'd say the PS2 wasn't nearly as poorly designed nor dev-unfriendly as the Saturn was. A more apt comparison would be the PS3 and its CELL, which was much more difficult to develop on than the 360 and thus gave Microsoft the lead over Sony for that generation.

>>8920893
The Saturn has nothing bro. Only reason to own one is for Sega's first party racing games

>>8927101
>32X was to buy Sega more time
No it wasn't. It was done entirely to appease Sega of America who refused to back the Saturn. SoA was convinced no one was going to pay more than $200 for a new console and didn't want to let the Genesis go. They convinced SoJ their read was correct and SoJ offered them a Genesis with more colors, and they countered with 32X. The plan was 32X in the US and Saturn in Japan.
> As long as it was selling ok in the west
But it wasn't. It as dead on arrival. Consumers didn't want it, and developers didn't want to support it.
>You're going to kill your successful, booming western market
The western market wasn't booming as much as you think. There's a sharp decline in sales for 16-bit consoles starting at the end of 1993 and in 1994 the writing was on the wall. Then there's the fact that Sega of America was being poorly managed as has been revealed in translated interviews. Part of why Sega posted a huge loss in 1998 was because they wrote off a ton of inventory from Sega of America because they severely overproduced Genesis systems and games and had them sitting in warehouses for years.

https://mdshock.com/2021/04/14/segas-financial-troubles-an-analysis-of-export-revenue-1991-1998/

>Also, I'd say the PS2 wasn't nearly as poorly designed nor dev-unfriendly as the Saturn was.
It was, it's a convoluted mess of a system as anyone who's developed for it will tell you. Devs didn't care though because it was selling well and had a good install base. PS2 sold well because it had a good launch of solid software with more good titles right around the corner. The "it was a cheap DVD player" is effectively a meme that really has no evidence other than an off the cuff comment from Sam Pettus on an old G4 video. Most of what he's stated over the years doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

Saturn could have sold well enough to warrant developer support if it had a similarly good launch.

>>8926983
>Saturn needed every scrap of performance in order to fulfill the potential of 3D games.
Then why are there 3D games that perform just fine and barely use half the hardware?

I always wanted to play Shining the Holy Ark and Legend of Oasis. Aside from that I'm not into the Saturn's library, PSX had better RPGs

>>8927236
"Just using half the hardware" is the difference between Daytona USA and Sega Rally, or Panzer Dragoon and Zwei. It's an enormous difference not just to graphics but also to playability.

>>8927264
Both Daytona USA and Panzer Dragoon use both CPUs and VDP1 and VDP2. You can see for yourself loading them up in SSF and seeing both CPUs are active and executing code. The difference between them is simply more dev time and polish.

Meanwhile you have a game like say Alien Trilogy that does only use 1 SH-2 and is pretty much on par with it's PS1 equivalent. Other games like Powerslave don't use the M68k for Sound nor do they use the SCU DSP. If you lower the clock speed for the Slave CPU you'll see there's barely any performance hit for Powerslave meaning what job it has the slave doing is pretty minor. Yet it's one of the better looking and running games on the system.

>>8927304
>Both Daytona USA and Panzer Dragoon use both CPUs and VDP1 and VDP2. You can see for yourself loading them up in SSF and seeing both CPUs are active and executing code.
This is true. I had believed otherwise but it looks like they use the slave CPU a fair bit.
>The difference between them is simply more dev time and polish.
The point still remains that optimizing for the Saturn is more important simply because it has less headroom. For a Saturn game, lacking dev time and polish means not being able to see three feet ahead and single digit framerates. For a PS2 game, lacking dev time and polish just means muddier textures and more jaggies.

>>8926957
>MGS is a movie game
Nope. Cyberswine was a movie game. MGS was a stealth game with cutscenes.

>>8926869
go kys, the saturn is way better than the gaystation.

>>8927137
go watch a top 50 saturn games retard

>>8927418
>watch Top 50 Saturn Games video
>inferior ports/multiplats
>cringey weebshit
>no Sonic 4
Saturn failing makes so much sense now.

>>8923454
>There just seems to be a handful of shit posters on this board with a hate boner for the system who keep making weekly "Sega Shitturn sucks" and "Shitturn can't do Transparency lol!" threads.
Absolutely. One of the spergs already made a new thread after getting btfo in this one >>8926381

>>8927432
Looks like it's time for me to make one

>>8926904
The N64 wasn't released in 1995, and Sony bought Eidos' exclusivity after the release of Tomb Raider. It's a verifiable fact you can look up for yourself on the internet so you can stop being wrong on /vr/ Lol at trying to use the PC to win an argument about the Saturn though.

>>8926841
Sorry Anon, but you were the one who embarrassed yourself and proved you know nothing about history or basic finance and economics for that matter. I guess you'll just have to make a bunch of new shitturn threads now to cope.

>>8920893
No Final Fantasy. I remember going to Gamestop to buy FFVIII and saw employees putting out a sign for Dreamcast. No one bought one while I was hanging around in line.

>>8922741
Wait, were each breast fifteen pounds or was the combined total fifteen pounds?

I feel like the Saturn was more arcadey, where the 64 and Playstation had more deep games available to it.

>>8926869
Xbox is still better than PlayStation and PlayStation 2.

>>8927479
>Sony bought Eidos' exclusivity after the release of Tomb Raider
Wrong again. Holy shit Anon, is being wrong your fetish or something? Eidos released Saturn games up until 1997 and only stopped because the Saturn fucking died. Then they strongly supported the Dreamcast starting in 1999. What you're thinking of is how Sony briefly bought console exclusivity over the Tomb Raider franchise, which was very short lived considering TR4 and 5 were ported to the DC. Bask in your wrongness. Soak in it.
>you know nothing about history or basic finance and economics for that matter
You think Sony could have bought a company that wasn't for sale because you're under the impression money is literally magic. You know as much about history, economics, and basic finance as a baked potato.

>>8927432
>inferior ports/multiplats
go kys

I sold mine to get a PS1 when I was a kid. I do not regret this decision

>>8927746
get a load of this guy

>>8927883
>I do not regret this decision
https://youtu.be/f-kULCJ6N64
oof

>>8927746
Liar liar pants on fire

>>8927407
Metal Gear Solid also had plenty of hours of pure gameplay if that’s what you wanted in the form of the VR missions.

>>8927893
>playing an FPS on console instead of PC
Get a load of this tard.

>>8927885
>>8928740
I accept your surrender

>>8927746
Sega bought 6 months of exclusivity for Tomb Raider on the Saturn. Then Sony bought something like 3 or 4 years, knowing that the game was a gigantic hit and the series is gonna be huge. And it was huge, one of the biggest titles of the 90s, and it had an extremely large mainstream presence too. You had Lara in energy drink ads, E3 having Lara models every year, there was a movie too.

Once the exclusive deal was over, they could port the games to Dreamcast, but by that point the series was past its prime.
Eidos did release everything else on other platforms when they could, except they really had no other console platforms for a while. The Saturn died (they finished Fighting Force for Saturn, but it was canned in the last minute) and the N64 was too expensive. They did FF2 on the Dreamcast later, but that game was horrible.

>>8920902
>marketing
This. Marketing is everything. People love to told what to buy.

>>8928910
*to be told

>>8927228
>It was, it's a convoluted mess of a system as anyone who's developed for it will tell you

false. The only issues were that it wasn't built like a PC with one central cpu and one strong gpu, the direction in which the market was going (in fact the gpu was partially broken, but it was so fast it didn't matter).

Developers had to learn how to offload things to the coprocessors, and to stream textures on demand because the GPU didn't have enough RAM for that and high resolution framebuffer. Once that was done, the PS2 could pull off a lot of advanced effects by sheer brute force (at least one game had normal mapping for example). The fact that is was on the market for 6+ years helped a lot with this.

>The "it was a cheap DVD player" is effectively a meme
Fuck off back to sega-16 with your alternate universe bullshit. Anyone who cared about videogames at the time can tell you that the PS2 being a DVD player was a HUGE selling points. It wasn't a cheap player per se (nor a good one), but a shitload of parents used the PS2 as their first DVD player.

>>8927101
>Also, I'd say the PS2 wasn't nearly as poorly designed nor dev-unfriendly as the Saturn was. A more apt comparison would be the PS3 and its CELL, which was much more difficult to develop on than the 360 and thus gave Microsoft the lead over Sony for that generation.

PS2 was complex, but ultimately it was really, really fucking fast.
Saturn was complex, lacked features, and was very slow on top of that.
PS3 is a good comparison to Saturn, since the PS3 was also complex and yet slow. To be fair the X360 as also complex, but it had less hooplas and the GPU was much faster.

What gave Microsoft the edge was that they launched a year earlier, despite MASSIVE quality assurance problems, which lead to a 2 billion writeoff on their extended warranty program. They were the first on the market with an incredibly huge leap in graphics quality, and the most solid online play on the planet. The PS3 was late, had weaker hardware (despite Sony saying otherwise), and cost so much that you could buy a Wii and a 360 and still have money left over (wii60 was a meme at the time).

Oh, and Sony made themselves look like an ass with their pre-launch press conference.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRqKffIjCDU

Here is something that gets completely overlooked. The Sega Saturn back then was a Premium System. It was built like a tank. Everything right down to the brilliant 6 button controller screams quality. Unlike the flimsy Playstation. Or the budget Dreamcast. My launch Saturn still works. Not a single glitch, freeze or reset in almost 3 decades and literally thousands of hours playtime. Who the fuck cares if americans cant ASM. Fuck their shitty games anyway.

>>8926850
>Its shitty hardware played a huge roll in its failure because it repelled developers.

You can get around this with good dev support. By late 1997 the dev kits pretty much completely masked the hardware idiocies and could do advanced tricks like chrome lightning effects (only one game used it, Zero Divide).

Sadly, by that time everyone pulled Saturn support, because Sega was completely fucking retarded.

>I accept your surrender

>>8928941
sadly the saturn cant play pirated games as easily so itll be forgotten

>>8928905
>Then Sony bought something like 3 or 4 years
It was two years. It wouldn't have made a difference if the Saturn version of Tomb Raider II had been released anyway considering it was a dead platform by 1997.

>>8928950
Every single thing I said about Eidos is true. Which is why you can't refute any of it. Seethe, cope, and dilate.

>>8928957
>cant play pirated games as easily
That's why it didn't sell so well in the west. Saturn mod chips weren't that easy to come by. So you actually had to purchase the games.

>>8929082
Saturn was not dead 1997 stop parroting youtubers

>>8929096
i have a saturn but i cant play fucking anything on it because its so expensive even modding it is

>>8929479
>doesn't know about kai saturn and cdrs
anon...

>>8928838
>instead of PC
you want me to play the shitty version with shitty dos music and warping effects when you look up and down? get a load of this autist. nice cope too

>>8928869
I accept ur cope

>>8929082
>considering it was a dead platform by 1997.
why are these zoomers so retarded

>>8920893
Because it had good games, but it neither had more good games than playstation, nor more good games in more genres than playstation.
First and second gen playstations you were living large no matter what the fuck you liked to play, and it made sony larger than life. Dreamcast was great for some people, and just had absolutely jack shit to offer for others. Sony decided that was actually a good business model for some dumbass reason come PS3, and has been garbage ever sense.

>>8929371
>>8929615
>pretending the Saturn wasn't dead by 1997
It was dead as a doornail by '97. Of course you zoomers wouldn't know that because you weren't alive back then and you're too retarded to learn history.

>>8929096
>saturn failed because it was too difficult to pirate on
>dc failed because it was too easy to pirate on
And you wonder why no one takes you people seriously?

>>8929479
>modding
>expensive
Better stick to the free phone games. Also 18+

>>8929670
>wikipedia
zoom zoom

Saturn had potential and it was double-butt fucked without lube by Sega of Japan and America.

>>8920893

>>8930193
pottery

>>8920893
PS had more IPs with greater mass market appeal on top of exclusive deals with more recognizable IPs. It's as simple as that.
I always thought the Saturn was more interesting but I'm an arcadefag with my own bias there. People were more into stuff like FF, MGS, Crash and FF, all of which weren't coming to Saturn at all. A handful of them like RE had like one entry on Saturn but they were largely exclusive to PS. I love my highly accurate arcade ports and Saturn originals but normies didn't really care about any of that anymore.

>>8930258
Forgot to add, I would also chalk it up to the Saturn being more difficult to develop for but I think it just has more to do with money and audience reach. N64 and PS2 were also supposed to be extremely tough to develop for but given the massive userbases those two consoles had, something the Saturn defiantly didn't, I'm pretty sure devs just sucked it up and soldiered on.

>>8920893
>>8920902
Saturn should have just been another 2D machine and 32x should have never been a thing. They could have kept promising their 3D console would be on the way soon and just release Dreamcast around the same time they did. If people kept insisting that Saturn do 3D then just release a periperal to satisfy these autists. If it centered around 32bit 2D games and was a cheaper alternative to N64 and PS1 I would have loved having it as a solid alternative console or as my 2D games machine. I still liked 2D games back then. It would have been sweet to see N64 be primarily 3D with the best graphics and no loading for games, PS1 handling the most variety as far as genres go and cinematic games, and then Saturn could have been the 2D powerhouse. This would have made the entire 5th gen without a doubt the absolute best gen in gaming of all time to me. But fags wanted to hammer in 3D too damn much sadly.

Saturn was not better than Playstation. It was a failed inferior version of it that didn't know what it truly wanted to be. Dreamcast was a better competitor.

>>8930560
A pure 2D machine would have flopped even harder. Nobody wanted a neo geo cd or pcfx. Playstation proved being good at 3D didn't mean being bad at 2D.

>>8930178
What potential? It was a mess to develop for and Sega didn't gave any developments kits, it was good for 2D fighters and that was it.

>>8920902
lol Sega had the absolute worst marketing and its not even close.

Their entire pitch was "lol nintendies" and it shockingly didnt work.

>>8930083
>>8929593
do you have any idea how rare and expensive kai saturn is

>>8931221
>rare
ebay
>expensive
well its like 40 bucks

>>8931240
no it isnt. there are only two listings. and both are $80

>>8929371
>Saturn was not dead 1997 stop parroting youtubers
Console sales have slowed down to a crawl by 1997, you can see this in reports. The console serial numbers also reflect that they simply did not make it in high numbers by then either. Europe had like 50k consoles made in 1997. USA had a bit more.

Meanwhile PSX was getting final fantasy 7 and selling in multiple millions.

>>8931221
Yeah, an action replay ($30 last time I bought one), a screwdriver, a hairpin, and a burned disc that refreshes the firmware to pseudosaturn.

alternatively you can buy modchips for $20.

>>8920893
Those games were cockblocked from coming to America.

>>8931291
its literally. literally $80 or more for one.

>>8920893
better ga- this must be some kind of runaway meme that got out of hand over many years. Kind of like those African dictators that begin to believe their own bullshit

>>8920893
Poor timing as well as coming out after their 32x, burning whatever trust they had with their consumers.

>>8931297
>$80 is too expensive
It’s 2022 a fucking Big Mac costs 80 dollars stop being poor

>>8931256
I live in europe, here pseudo kais are like 40/50

>>8921206
Lol what? What the fuck does this even mean?

>>8931221
>do you have any idea how retarded and ignorant i am
Of course not. I can only judge by the stupidity you've demonstrated here so far, which I'm sure is just the tip of the iceberg.
What I know for a certainty is that I can get a "kai saturn" for $30 from many vendors, or flash any of my ARs, none of which I paid more than a buck for.
Stay stupid. Stay poor. Stay mad.

>>8932451
a non flashed AR is like $80 here

>>8921201
sometimes it seems perfectly able to do it

>>8924209
Post ur letter scoare's... what's that? you dont have any?? quite unfortunate...

not like this, poserbros...

>>8932456
Sweet. Resellers there mush be minting it. Imagine being able to just order something for $30 online and being able to flip it to tards who can't manage that for a markup like that.

Guys, can we stop the Saturn vs PlayStation fight and just unite in hating the piece of shit that is N64?

>>8933197
but im talking about online prices. You literally cant find it for less than $80 online

>>8933775
based, ps1 and saturn are good, even tho I'm a saturnfag I have to say, the ps1 has some of my favorite games, but the n64, its just a nostalgiafag console

>>8933775
>>8933801
The n64 zeldas are just that good to me that I'll take them over the entire libraries on Playstation and Saturn.

> no franchise from the genesis made it over

uh yea thats about it

>>8933775
Yes.
Fuck the Nogames 64, and fuck Nintendo consoles/games in general for that matter.

>>8933775
why do saturnfags always resort to this cope?

>>8933775
Saturn and N64 are better than Playstation you mean

>>8933807
>n64 zeldas
>ocarina of time is better on gc and majorasmaks is just gay

>>8933817
>cope
gaystation fags and their solid arguments

>>8933820
ps and saturn don't have fps, blurr, filters and sound issues

>Virtua Fighter 2
>Panzer Dragoon series
>Nights
>Last Bronx
>Tomb Raider
>Sonic R
>Dead or Alive
>Daytona USA
>Touge King The Spirits 1/2 (lowkey best racers on the system)
>Sega Rally Championship
>other 3D fighters

These big 3D games are the only ones that would impress people and the PS just had more of them. They were seen as good enough or better, and it wasn't a smart investment to buy an expensive console for just a handful of titles. Why buy a Saturn for just VF2 when you could get Tekken 2 and more games? Plus Sega was focusing on arcade experience, when the drive was towards longer games (Adventure, rpg, racing). Gran Turismo was right around the corner and there was nothing like that on the Saturn.

The rest of Saturn's library is interesting or good, but at the same time they are mostly 2D or a mix of 2D/3D games and won't win audiences over, despite how much I love them.

>>8933861
>Why buy a Saturn for just VF2 when you could get Tekken 2
tekken 2 is shitty compared to vf2

>>8933861
>when the drive was towards longer games (Adventure, rpg, racing)
>I don't know the Saturn's library

>>8933861
There was also Burning Rangers, which is a very impressive looking game.

>>8933897
In screenshots more so than in motion.

>>8933861
>big 3D games
you forgot to mention quake, hexen, duke nukem 3d and stcc

>>8933894
I'm saying from a consumer's perspective (kids and parents) rather than a "gamer's" perspective. VF was the better series early on, but PS looked to be a better deal since it looked to have a game as good plus tons more. Simiarily, the PS had games that looked as good on the surface as the N64 (Crash, Spyro, Ape Escape, etc) even if the N64 had more technically impressive platform titles.

>>8933895
If you look up the "Japan only Saturn" lists, it's all really neat 2D games. Very niche for the 90's though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPWFbVkKcaM

>brag about saturn being the best MUH ARCADE PORTS machine
>have no 1CC no score no nothing
>only playing garbo non games such as sakura taisen
Saturn fags have dementia

>>8935907
>>have no 1CC no score no nothing
>no nothing
but muh rare sealed copy of gaydiant shittergunt

>>8922741
Welp now I need to go masturbait, thanks

>>8920893
I love the Saturn and all but what with the nonstop spam of it, is it one guy??

>>8920893
>despite having better games than Playstation
It didn't, that's why

>>8924248
And Einhander, and Philosoma, and Cotton 100%, and Harmful Park

Saturn has a lot of shmups but PS1 has a lot of GOOD shmups

>>8937601
>>8937609
>i dont know the saturn library

>>8937609
>GOOD shmups
doesn't have radiant silvergun

>>8937737
>radiant silvergun
trash game with stupid columns-ripoff scoring, quantity over quality boss fights, unfitting music that belongs in a jarpig and runs like dogshit on real hardware. surely you saturntards have a better shmup than that to play...?

>>8937609
Those non-player games are a joke in the shmup community

>>8938039
>trash game
stopped reading after that

>>8920893
Sega games are a very particular style which don't resonate to most people. Even in this thread, most people hate them. At the time anyone who had one knew to get most their games from Japan, so it was already a niche crowd. Publishers of the most popular games like EA tend to focus more on Playstation and it just snowballed from there. I personally consider the Saturn a top 5 console of all time, and the original Playstation is my 7th most favorite, which is still great.

>>8940131
>nfsu games
shit tastes

>>8940162
I have accepted that what I like don't have the mass appeal. While I don't have enough money to support what I do like, most others have supported the games they do like, and it is nice some of those are still appealing to me.

>>8921460
And was still third place there.

>>8924598
Wow, one country out of the 120.

>>8926147
>Starfox
>shitty music

Choose One.

>>8941050
no, heres the popularity of consoles in the eu (pt,fr,uk) in to 94 till 99
>ps1>saturn>megadrive>n64
now amerifat btfo

>>8941071
I didnt choose, it came bundled

>>8941079
Wrong. Europe sales for the N64 are around 6.75 million units. More than double the estimates the Saturn did.

What is better, model 1 or model 2?
Is the saturn better built than a dreamcast?
Is a dreamcast dream?

>>8941086
So you have shit taste, got it.

>>8920902
From my perspective it's the Saturn games that feel fake and I really have a hard time finding one I want to play.

>>8921594
Wow, great post. Brings knowledge and examples from a lot of different sources together concisely.

>The Saturn gpu was this stupid maze of options where every graphic path gave you different possibilities.
I think I would have been a good Saturn dev. I have the same 'tism as the Sonic R dev where I can flowchart things in an orderly fashion to get the results I want.

The real problem with the Saturn, imo, was its parallelism (explained very well by the Sonic R dev on GameHut). That is more than flowcharting; you need to arrange every problem into sets of 4 instructions, likely interlocking them with every other problem as a result, thereby making it impossibly difficult to go back and change anything without losing your extremely precise performance optimizations.

>>8941126
nice cope.
you cry while I listen to the orchestra tier ost of pd, on my saturn, that reads cds and not cartridges

>>8941114
I said popularity, saturn was bigger than the n64

>>8941252
That's just the VLIW DSP chip, which is frankly the final boss of Saturn programming since it's quite hard to even find a use for.

>>8920893
Bernie Stolar

>>8921061
>Look at how well the PS5 is selling despite it being a complete piece of crap
I don't know if that's really fair. The production shortages in getting the components, coupled with scalpers taking advantage of bots to buy out what little actually gets shipped, have really skewed its performance, same as the new Xbox and pc graphics cards.

>>8943000
I'm so sick of the new state of affairs of games and media. It really just makes me feel like my soul is leaving my body

>>8943002
it really does feel like someone went out of their way to just murder the old world

>>8943768
Happened in 1945, you're just feeling it harder now.

>>8920893


-NO FIFA
-Games realease 4 months after psx version release
-the whole USA and videogame magazines in North america and Europe were bought by Sony suitcases and money.

Go ahead and read magazines from 1996 and 1997 from 14 different countries

>>8920893
Because Sega was retarded enough to do a publicity stunt where they announced the Saturn the same day as E3. Stores were rightfully pissed at Sega for doing this and told them to fuck off. Also the price point and the fact that you could play more good Playstation games than the entirety of the NA Saturn library. This in addition to it's fucky hardware compare to the relatively straightforward PSX MIPS processor.

>>8945228
In fact, the only REALLY good Saturn exclusive games are the Panzer Dragoon series games and even out of those, only Panzer Dragoon Saga is genuinely worth the investment of a Saturn (if you can find at least 5 other good games for it and at a cheap price. Otherwise, wait for Saturn emulation to get good before bothering with the Saturn.

>>8945238
>only Panzer Dragoon Saga is genuinely worth the investment of a Saturn
Zwei is better and the crowning jewel of the series.

>>8945250
Orta's the only actually good PD game.
The Saturn trilogy has aged very poorly.

>>8945272
>aged
post discarded
>>>/v/