/vr/ - Retro Games

Thats cute but I still like this more than BoTW

>>8934068
It’s just Ocarina Of Time again, but worse and 8 years late to the party. It took 3D Zelda decades to catch up with the original game’s open exploration and non-linear adventure style.

>>8934074
If you say so, but I'm still going to take TP. BOTW had like no gameplay. Nothing to do. Snoresville.

>>8934058
>edgy
Fucking retard plebbitspacing faggot. Twilight princess has a somber melancholy atmosphere. Only dimwits describe the game as le dark edgy. Christ, how does a games entire atmosphere go over peoples heads? Watch the title screen ONCE.
https://youtu.be/kAwwQ7dTjRY

>>8934094
People talk about TP like its shadow the hedgehog. Zelda 'fans' are so fucking weird to me.
>well is tp and altyp albwtw tbc bbc loz aol llllllllll
its so annoying
The games good. I don't care. Breath of the wild was boring, so its not good to me. I dont care

>>8934094
>just watch the title screen once
honestly they should have just hired ueda if they were going to be this uhh 'inspired'

>>8934094
Title screen is just a rip of the Ocarina Of Time title screen mixed with Shadow Of The Colossus.

>>8934058
better than the Reddit Waker

>>8934121
I feel like as I get older I like WW less and TP more. WW is just a totally incomplete game. TP is incomplete too but much less so than WW. I say this as someone who likes sailing in WW and thinks the game looks great. WW has some novel puzzle ideas and stuff that I wish TP had but other than that...

>>8934121
I disagree. At least WW tried to do something new. TP is uninspired.

>>8934131
I mean is novelty alone all that it takes to sell a game to you?

>>8934121
>reddit waker
you should honestly kill yourself

>>8934128
Mario Sunshine and Windwaker feel the same. It was design philosophy. Tight little modular squares. They were very tight and consistent in the game development process and you can see it in the execution.

>>8934131
>WW tried to do something new
only a redditor will think trying something new and failing miserably is better than copying an old successful formula
besides unlike OOT, Reddit Waker did not innovate anything in the gaming industry

Thoroughly enjoyed all console Zeldas. Only handheld one I played was ALBW, have to try the rest. Not sure if I should play the DS ones with their original controls first or just use the d-pad hack.

>>8934149
>TP is uninspired.
the Zelda games on GB/GBC are good
Minish Cap is mediocre
Four Swords is forgettable
Tri Force Heroes is trash
Spirit Tracks is okay
Reddit Hourglass is garbage, a cheap portable version of Reddit Waker

>>8934134
Wind Waker has more interesting puzzles, imagery, bosses, and enemies.

Twilight Princess has better sword combat, but there are almost no good enemies and the bosses are just Shadow Of The Colossus rip-offs.

Wind Waker is bright and expressive, and there are insane combat scenarios where you’re fighting darknuts and fighting off a swarm of those flying peahat things while some Aztec-looking bird motherfucker shoots fire at you and summons more insane shit for you to fight.

That doesn’t happen in Twilight Princess. You just beat moblins or stalfos until they die.

>>8934143
Trying something new is a great idea. However, Nintendo follows a very specific formula in their development process and it works for them.

BOTW was a first for Nintendo. They tried to adapt and, you and I may not like the result, but for many others Nintendo did succeed.

The only thing that keeps Nintendo afloat is the fact that they keep doing the same thing and changing the window dressing enough to be different from their prior iteration and, more importantly, their competition. And I like Nintendo more than their current competition.

>>8934139
He's right though, stay mad. Despite this, both suck. Pic related is the only good 6th-gen Zelda, with the possible exception of GBA ALttP+FS.

>>8934158
I dunno, you're just being overly generous to be honest. WW encounters are totally forgettable to me. I dunno why you're so stand-offish. You're definitely making WW seem crazier and more unique than it is. The truth is everything in both games dies before it can even get to its main gimmick so who even cares.

>>8934167
>with the possible exception of GBA ALttP
fixed
FShit was awful

>>8934158
>Wind Waker has more interesting puzzles
are you a 5 years old? because no one but a child will think the toddler tier puzzles of Reddit Waker are good let alone interesting

>>8934158
>fighting darknuts and fighting off a swarm of those flying peahat things while some Aztec-looking bird
I don't think any of those enemies were in the same room together and if they were they were in numbers low enough that it was inconsequential. Everything dies so quickly in WW that it can barely even get one attack off

>>8934167
Getting this to work on dolphin with four mGBA screens was awesome.

>>8934185
Wind Temple

>>8934224
i dont understand your point

>>8934226
That battle occurs in the wind temple. There’s a wizzrobe miniboss that summons all kinds of shit for you to fight and shoots fire at you. It’s extremely chaotic.

>>8934228
I dont really care. Can you stop now? It just seems like TP is the better overall game. By virtue of actually being closer to being done.

>>8934231
>Can you stop now?
No. You said you don’t think that happens anywhere in the game, and it does. Have you even finished Wind Waker?

I could probably appreciate it, if it did more to establish it's own identity. Throwing Zant aside just so it could repeat OOT's final showdown with Ganondorf was the moment this game lost my good will.
All the cool stuff in TP is kind of underbaked in favour of just more OOT fanservice.

>>8934238
>TP is bad because Ganondorf was the real final boss and villain!
>but it's okay when Reddit Waker did it
kys

>>8934236
Uh yeah many times. It use to be my favorite. I don't understand why WW fans get like this though and I speak as someone who use to be one. Its like you instantly think everyones against you
TP's ending is so bad due to >>8934238. The tutorial is totally obnoxious. The game never stops tutorializing. The puzzles aren't as unique and novel as ww. and the boat is better than the horse. But I like TP's epic narrative tone more even if its just an OoT retread. The soundtrack is really nice too, I like it more than WW's celtic& island inspired one. WW barely even took itself seriously most of the time and the lack of content in that game and its rush to end game really hurts it. I think some of WW's items just suck also like the grappling hook, hammer, magic armor.
But WW's actual ending and last fight is one of my favorites in the series and I think the way it ends is just beautiful.
Too bad spirit tracks had to ruin it.

>>8934247
That's a dumb comparison, because Wind Waker properly sets up Ganondorf as the bad guy, and also does more to characterise him than any other game.
TP sets up Zant, and then pulls a bait and switch. Ganondorf didn't earn that final boss showdown. Link barely even knows who Ganondorf is in that game.

>>8934259
Twilight Princess story makes no fucking sense. At all.

None of it is set up or explained. It’s just edgy thing that looks cool followed by edgy thing that looks cool.

>>8934271
what do you mean? TP big problem is over-explanation. it sets up and explains every little thing. You must be dumb as fuck.

>>8934271
>It’s just edgy
>edgy
here is that word again
go jump off a bridge you cock sucking redditor

every bad criticism leveled at 3d zeldas is actually true of twilight princess

>>8934273
Maybe I wasn’t paying attention because I couldn’t take the EDGE but I remember everything being really vague and not making sense.

>>8934058
i think it's alright
could've done some stuff better, could've done it worse
that said my second favorite one next to mm is skyward sword so idk ymmv

>>8934271
It's just another story about Hyrule being invaded by an outside force.

>>8934283
Skyward Sword wasn’t even tolerable to me. You must have the patience of a saint.

WW should have been the last zelda game

>>8934296
Considering how badly it went over, it almost was.

>>8934058
I have to agree. The dungeons are pretty cool but the rest just sucks.


Also, botw sucks massive balls. Fucking nature walking simulator but def not an action adventure game.

>>8934296
>WW should have been the last zelda game
and end one of the most iconic gaming franchises with a wet fart? no
TP saved the series

Every game after OoT and before BOTW stinks.

>>8934058
Naw, it's a great game. It's far from the best Zelda, but it's still plenty of good fun.

>>8934058
Zelda ends at Ocarina of Time

No. Twilight Princess was just about perfect.

"zelda for the nes is an open world game" is a zoomer revisionism btw

>>8934058
It's good but not perfect. 8.8 is unironically a fair score.
The biggest issues are the linearity and low difficulty, but that applies to a lot of Zelda games. The tears of light sections also could have been better, they should have given the player a new Midna/wolf ability for each section. and had more shadow enemy types (for some reason most of them were cut).
I like the tone, dungeons, items, and combat. It has most of its priorities right when it comes to being a Zelda game, especially compared to WW/SS/BotW which are all obsessed with one specific gimmick at the expense of the core content.

>>8934058
its not the best zelda
but its the ones the fans thought they wanted

there were some epic cinematic moments but twilight princess doesn't hold up compared to the other entries in the series - still a good game though obv

>>8935116
Most Zelda games feel linear once you actually know where you're going to meet the next quest goal.

>>8935115
There's some dumb boomers who push that bullshit too, but yeah obviously there's a world of difference between LoZ's world design and BotW's world design. LoZ is much much closer to the rest of the franchise than BotW is. There's a clear through-line from LoZ to LttP to OoT. LoZ does give you more choice in dungeon order than later games, but the structure is not completely flat like BotW, there's still a bunch of item gating.

>>8935121
For me the perception of non-linearity is what matters. Knowing that the game is presenting me with a choice, even if I won't take it, really adds to the feeling of exploration. When I replay games I often take the exact same paths I did before.
Ideally there should still be some actual non-linearity, but with a structure in place. "Go anywhere at any time with no obstacles" is lazy game design, arguably anti-design.

>>8935126
The structure isn't flat in BotW. It still follows the LttP formula. It just does it 4 times instead of once. Every beast requires following its own progression of trials and item collecting.

>>8935146
Why the fuck will botw fans just straight up lie to you

>>8935146
The divine beast order is flat in BotW. You can even make a beeline for Hyrule Castle. The only time the game stops you from going anywhere is on the Plateau, which is arguably the best part of the game.
In LoZ there are certain dungeons you can access right away, but others that require specific items in specific dungeons. And the final dungeon requires you to complete every other dungeon. Very different from BotW's structure.

>>8935158
moving around in that game just feels tedious and boring. i dont get the appeal at all. and i like open world rpgs. but botw just seems like a really bland version of one. nintendo just copied what others were doing mindlessly

>>8935164
That's just you being a boring person.

I still haven't played it. I should get around to it some day

>>8935170
>you just played the game wrong
The most annoying fanbase man. I wasn't even rude.

>>8935182
its fun :) good sound track too.

>all them sword techniques
>dem bosses
>dem dungeons
>dat SNOWBAORDING
>illia a cute
>THICC midna
>fishing
>swimming that actually lets you swim around instead of just diving for 5 seconds or sinking to the bottom
>that canoe minigame
>riding around the desert on a beyblade
>ball and chain is best weapon
>dem hulk hogan gorons in death mountain
>king bulbin fights like jousting on the bridge
>great final fight that has you fighting zelda, fighting a giant pic, and on horseback

>>8934058
Why is his tunic so overdesigned? it makes no sense at all

I want to fuck Imp Midna
That said, all 3d zeldas except for MM have garbage brainless autopilot dungeons, and to me that was always the dealbreaker.
I NEED to fuck Imp Midna

>>8934058
You’ve described Majora’s Mask for me, minus the “edgy” part.

>>8935164
I’m currently playing BotW for the first time and fully disagree. Moving through the world feels so much better to me compared to something like The Witcher III. Giving Link the ability to climb practically any surface is a game changer.

>>8935475
but thats really boring and slow with stamina meters and slipping in the rain. just so tedious. and then of course once you get there theres nothing for you. and i dont care about the witcher 3 either to be honest.

>>8935478
I’m not sure what other open world RPGs you’d even compare it to then. I can’t tell you how many times in other open world games I’ve wished I could just climb over whatever mountain or large hill is blocking my path to the objective rather than being forced to find the right path or road through or around.

>>8934117
>>8934107
Are we forgetting TP was announced before SotC was even released? Like a full year? It doesn't have anything in common with it other than "realistic anime" for an art.

>>8935510
True, although Aonuma and Ueda are buddies so they may have been showing off builds of TP and and SotC to each other.

BotW isn't a Zelda game really. More like a Zelda Gaiden.
But speaking about TP, which is on topic as retro, I like it for how relaxed it is. It IS too dark though. And the bloom lighting is shit. Gameplay is fine though. 8.8 was too generous IMO. flat-8. My favorite game in the series is LttP because it nails everything for me. Solid 9.9, gets a .1 deduction because SNES slowdown. LA is second, Zelda 2 third for me. That's nostalgia talking though.

Ocarina is still my favorite 3D Z game, as it has just enough content and 100% of the "Zelda" feel without being bogged down. WW, TP, and SS have too much baggage and lose some of the Zelda feel.

>>8935517
Honestly, I'd like if those two did a game together, Zelda or new IP (I know the ICO series is a no-go since Ueda is no longer an employee of Sony)

>>8935521
I enjoy Twilight Princess, but it does end up feeling a bit derivative despite a few very good dungeons. Wind Waker at least has the unique sunny tropical setting going for it. Link’s Awakening is my favorite 2D Zelda for similar reasons. I guess I just like summer vacation vibes.

>>8935529
I'm a sucker for vibrant colors in games. I love arcade games for that reason, whereas most FPS games I couldn't give a shit about.
BotW pisses me off big time when it gets foggy+rainy and the colors get rekt.
TP has the same issue. Sometimes it's very colorful, then you get the classic mid-2000s BROWN N BLOOM.

>>8934321
>TP saved the series
It’s probably the least talked about 3D Zelda game because it’s so irrelevant that no one even cares for it, and anytime anyone does talk about it it’s just people Midnaposting on /v/

>>8935553
This. Every once in a while you get anons like >>8935439 that mention the actual gameplay, but generally it’s just coomers that want to fuck Midna.

>>8934058
gave up in the intro segment. if im not in the main link outfit within 30 mins i aint playing that fucking shit. the intro segment was so fucking awful holy fucking shit.

>>8934058
Still better than fucking Wind Breaker

>>8934058

>>8935584
but the intro segment is maybe 5 minutes wtf are you saying? and yes the game starts before you get the outfit.

>>8935596
Skyward Sword kind of broke the Zelda cycle. I’m sure some look back on it fondly, but not nearly as many that champion for WW or TP.

>>8935596
Poor Shiggy-sama. I love all his Zelda and Mario games, because I'm not a fucking faggot. Most gamers seem to be dickheads though, but hey that's just mankind in general.
A shame he has so little to do with these games today. Same with T2.

>>8935613
is this post just trying to test peoples knowledge on what miyamoto was and wasnt involved in in some kind of reverse reverse bait thing

How do they expect you to find all the Poes without a guide?

>>8934058
I've never played this and I never will. I never had an interest in WW or TP. Never played SS either. Tried BOTW and didn't like it. The handhelds seem better. I might try ALBW someday.

>>8935616
Miyamoto hasn't had a direct hand in a Zelda or Mario game since the N64 days. His glory days are in the 80s and 90s.

>>8935439
>think of this
>see >>8934094
>get excited
>'oh tp wasnt that bad actually'
>want to replay it
>remember >>8935584
>>8934281
>>8934238

I think I just like TP because I like OoT & LTTP to be honest. I just want 6th gen expanded upon OoT.

>>8935604
The intro segment is more like 50 minutes long

>>8935621
Yeah I agree.
I like Pikmin though.
Miyamoto is just like good at designing games. I don't really get it. He doesnt code he doesnt draw(much) he doesnt do music. But he had great ideas. One of the best ideasmen. I wish I could be a professional ideasman. Miyamoto doesnt even have to play video games. In fact his games benefit from him having very little working knowledge of the industry fashions.

I will tell you all! listen up.
It's ok. It's not great. Wind Waker is better, not perfect albeit. Twilight is too easy and slow. The good parts are rare. I love atmosphere and it delivers there but the game is not engaging to play. Maybe wii version had better controls. I sold my wii version for the gamecube one. I regret it. That was before the remake though. I did my best. Wind Waker is also to easy, but overall more balanced and engaging to interface with. Exploration is real. Dungeons are good.

Twilight Princess just sucks a fat dick. All the characters are gay and the towns are boring. The enemies are boring.

>>8935636
> Wind Waker is also to easy, but overall more balanced and engaging to interface with
lmao, you can literally counter anything or just use the boomerang to stun
>Dungeons are good.
LMAO

>>8935636
How did you go from 'its okay' to 'its sucks dick' you lost me there. I agreed with you until that last bit. Twilight princess isnt a bad game at all. its just a decent game and people expect more from zelda I guess. It reminds me of flawed PS2 games that I still enjoy.

>>8935630
He has a very rational but wide imagination. I get the feeling that he looks at games as a reasonable gamer, neither casual or hardcore.

The worst part was when they used its artstyle for smash, which was a terrible fit for almost the entire cast.

>>8935553
>>8935557
Although not a failure, Wind Waker's sales were really low for the Zelda series, it kind of jeopardized the series to get the shelf like Star Fox and F-Zero, so much back in the day Aonuma did said Wind Waker's sales did hurt the series viability. TP sold like pancakes and in the end what counts for the suits is sales, not a legacy decades later.

>>8935675
Asserting in Miyamoto's mind that the only good tunic design is one that has that little X stitch on the neckline.

>>8935678
Aonuma was running the Zelda department by that time. Should’ve been Koizumi instead.

>>8935681
Still, he did have his opinions, such as frowning on the fact that Toon Link's tunic doesn't have the X, and being happy that BotW's Tunic of the Wild does have the X

>>8934058
>too edgy
Not a problem

>>8934345
the take /vr/ isn’t ready for
(I do look back on WW fondly though)

>>8935685
is any of what your saying real

>>8935723
>take
God just go away. everyone of your ilk. I dont like botw at all man.

the BOTW hate on here reminds me not to take /vr/gin opinions too seriously.

I like to fly.
I like to climb.
I like to do puzzles.
I like to dress up like a girl.

simple as. it’s a great game.

>>8934058
Why don't you fags ever talk about games you like instead of spamming bitchy tantrum threads all day about games you don't like?
Could it be that you simply don't play video games?

>>8934068
>>8934087
Holy fucking based and /thread
BOTW is the worst Zelda game ever made

>>8935731
I like to play games.

>>8935731
>/vr/gin opinions
>all that
I'm just a guy who doesn't like the same game you do jesus fuck. I'm not even the one who brought it up.

>>8935731
>Puzzles
Ahhahhahahahahah

>>8935745
Some of the shrine solutions in BotW are pretty clever. Fuck the motion control and stasis shit though.

>>8935737
Because you dont fucking post in any of them. I make threads on games I love and YOU DONT POST IN THEM. WHY? I JUST WANT YOU TO POST IN THEM

>>8935746
I actually like BOTW but I like it less than every other Zelda
Literal Ubisoft tier

It's barely a game to me. I interpret it as a cinematic experience with a dungeon simulator and a few minigames included on the side.

>>8935751
t.adhd zoomer who thinks 5 lines of texts in a row is too much

>>8935731
It's a fantastic game.
But it's not a true mainline Zelda game.
•no tunic from the get-go
•master sword has limited usage
•no true dungeons
•bosses aren't big or bad enough
It's a better overall game than SS or TP though. But a worse mainline Zelda game. So I call it Zelda Gaiden and tie it to Hyrule Warriors 2 and it works out great.

>>8934139
Are you capable of speaking like a normal person and not a fucking dipshit.
If you can't describe your thoughts without relying on calling everything reddit, your opinion is worthless.

>>8935731
>I like to fly.
I honestly prefer sailing, or maybe cars/trains if I could find a good open-world one with that Nintendo-flavor with it.
>I like to climb.
By far most boring part of BotW for me.
>I like to do puzzles.
The puzzles in that game feel more like minigolf courses or mobile game puzzles than the traditional 3D Zelda puzzles which I prefer. Of all the things I love about Twilight Princess, that might be the thing I love most.
>I like to dress up like a girl.
Heh, gay. Unless you are one I guess, but I doubt it.

Also this: >>8935757

>>8934058
>earrings
>long hair
>makeup on his eyes
>pagan shield
>needs to wear heavy chainmail for some reason(hurr its hardcore bro)

I just think Link looks really lame. The last time he looked cool was OoT. Since then Nintendo has totally backpedaled. I want the LoZ link. AoL link is some awesome musclewizard christian guy. These modern links have to wear fucking chainmail and women's capris

Am I the only one who thinks this stuff is flapping crazy? Why is nintendo doing this? I wish Sega owned zelda

>>8935775
It definitely feels like they're trying to over-feminize him, especially in BotW. Maybe they think it will make women impose themselves onto him more, or something like that? They might think making him more visually "relatable" to female audiences, or even favorable among the LGBT peoples, will boost sales.

>>8935778
I'm not trying to get political or anything here but it'd be really convenient if they could appeal to all people with the same design. Not meming I don't like the new designs because it feels like they've rounded all the edges off of link to make him into a kirby/mario tier mascot. And now his hair will be even longer in the unreleased game and he'll have tattoos and still wont wear the green tunic.
I mean why dont they just unchain themselves from zelda at that point and make something new with the same team. call it 'Zelda Team' or something tell everyone aonuma is the least but just let them go wild. i dont think they're interested in zelda games at all anymore to be honest and probably haven't for a long time now. I mean its nintendo, they could launch a new ip and convince everyone they've had it for years and nobody would buck

>>8935775
>>8935778
>>8935787
There's fujos in the Zelda team, clearly.
That's the main market for cute crossdressing in male characters in Japanese culture.

>>8935794
BotW has a lot of weird Jap imagery in general. Ideally we’ll get a new overhead Zelda game using less kiddie looking graphics than the Link’s Awakening remake.

>>8935795
I think a lot of modern japanese games have this problem.
I understand the japanese got disheartened in games during 7th gen, but this 'resurgence' or them trying way too hard to appeal to what they think people like is just too much. There's a lot of stuff in modern games that doesn't have the genuine feel of older stuff, like there was just a japanese man on the team going
>okay this is going to be a very JAPANESE game we have to TRY hard to make something CRAZY. lets be CRAZYJAPANESE again

>>8934058
Yeah, I reckon it sucks. It's kinda cool in the beginning because there's a lot of scripted content and decent pacing but it soon runs out of steam and it doesn't have the depth or the consistent level of quality that OoT had.

>>8935775
OoT and TP Links look identical save the chain mail what're you smoking?
Also, are we forgetting that the Lord of the Rings movies were really popular during TP's development? In the book Art and Artifacts they don't hide them being a reference point and one of the most iconic scenes of The Fellowship of the Ring was when Bilbo gives Frodo a chainmail.

>>8935827
oot and tp link don't look that similar to me to be honest

>>8935839
They have the exact same face. Yuusuke Nakano on Art and Artifacts seems rather disgruntled. I believe it was page 132 or 136 (I can't check right now) he mentions his original concept for TP Link was an older, grizzled knight with a full beard, who in spite of his age still carried the spirit of the Hero (as he was taking inspiration from western media) but NoA (who seemed to have plenty of feedback for TP's early production) essentially told him "Just do Ocarina again".

>>8935850
I flat out disagree with you

>>8935738
>BOTW is the worst Zelda game ever made
BOTW is amazing but it isn't a game.
It's the greatest tech demo ever made.

>>8935856
I don't know what to tell you man, only the hairdos are different but the way Nakano drew the eyes, the nose, the chin, the ears and even kept the earrings is identical in both Links.

>>8935869
Nah it's wildly different. DRASTICALLY. It's night and day. I don't understand why you're trolling me. Congratulations bro you trolled me. I hope you feel you won? Not sure why you'd otherwise lie like this

>>8935875
I'm not trolling you, TP's art style was OoT's with extra bells and whistles for details to look more "high fantasy", it's clear they wanted to make this the "big OoT next gen follow up" in all aspects after Wind Waker didn't meet the initial projected sales and the Cube's sales were tanking more and more.

Grab Nakano's concept art from TP that has Link simply standing up in a 3/4 angle, and overlay his face on top of his art of OoT Adult Link standing with the sword and shield out (the one from the N64 OoT manual where he stands beside child Link) you'll see the only diferences are the hairdo and the ever so slightly more prominent mouth.

I specify which art because the TP art with Link standing at an angle eagle's view is much more prominent than the "simply standing" concept art.

>>8935890
you're never going to convince me and either way the hair is most of it anyway. LIke seriously stop harassing me on this. I'm done. Just stop.

>>8935902
>Replying is harassing
>On a fucking anonymous forum
Go back to Rëddit.

>>8935909
So now you're upgrading to sexual are you?

>>8935902
you are a fucking imbecile

>>8934058
best zelda desu

>>8935775
>christian guy
Holy shit lmfao go back.

>>8935931
Meds.

>>8935748
I'll do better anon I promise.

>>8935731
>I like to dress up like a girl.
YWNBAW

wtf you can talk about tp on /vr/ now
>>8936286
i think the anon realizes that believe it or not zoomer

>>8936030
He posts that image every chance he can, it stopped being funny a long time ago.

>>8934058
It was a dull ugly version of Oot. It somehow managed to feel even more dated than the N64 Zelda games.

It also came out around the same time as Okami and Oblivion which made it feel even more dated. It was supposed to be the anti Wind Waker but it was just as linear and easy as that game was. When you look back at it, Zelda was not in a good place during the Gamecube Wii DS era.

TP is one of the best games in the series, if not the best. People seem to criticize it for the stupidest reasons, like the goat herding mini games which take all of two minutes to complete out of the 60-80 hour experience. There are also the wolf segments which can drag on a bit in the beginning, but they don't take that long and are largely abandoned later on. Once the game hits its stride though, there is nothing like it. By far the coolest and most aesthetically pleasing version of Hyrule Field, very satisfying combat, good puzzles and secrets, lots of side content. There is very little to dislike, in my opinion. Even some of the things that other people seem to hate, like the character designs (e.g. Malo) are, to me, charming. TP also has some of the best dungeons and by far the coolest boss fights (the giant armored worm in water temple is my favorite boss fight in any game ever). The atmosphere and music are fantastic. The setpieces are amazing and some of the battles like the field fight against the goblins on horseback are unironically epic as fuck. Say what you want but this was a good game and there hasn't been a Zelda since which has adequately captured the same feeling of high fantasy and adventure.

>>8935890
It never ceases to amaze me how people don't realize TP's art style is just a direct evolution of OoT and MM.

the turboaustism about tiny details in link’s character model in this thread is really just amazing

There has never been a good 3D Zelda game.

>>8935890
Ganondorf, Link and Zelda all looked great. Problem was everything else.

I was quite disappoint. WW was much better since you actually had tome feeling of progression, but TP felt like a never ending goose hunt. Didn't have any of the charm, either. That said, no Zelda game after MM really wowed me any more.

>>8936580
Not really though. OOT is very 90's anime. The characters all have simple motifs, and eye catching colour schemes. The design mentality of TP was first make everything brown grey and murky, and secondly, add a load of superfluous details to everything because "good grafix". there was also a lot of wild west and feudal Japan things going on, which was very much not part of OOT's aesthetic.

>>8934068
Same
>>8934074
Its the only true follow up to the N64 games and has a handful of improvements mixed with a lot of good but inferior things.

>>8934074
It's OOT but 4x the length with half the substance and most of it is copied too. Also desaturated out the ass. There's a reason the people obsessed with Midna don't even know which game she's from.

>>8937320
Like every Japanese game it's basically just Western stuff with an anime spin. The master swords iconic design is literally just a sword from Germany painted blue.

>>8934058
I enjoyed it, but I didn't like how most of the items were useless outside of their dungeons

>>8934058
Could have fooled me if not for the last sentence.

The slow start is the only valid excuse against TP, its a perfectly fine game otherwise.

>>8934247
>dude, you don't like this shitty thing, therefore you must like this shitty thing!
This line of thinking should get you thrown into a mental asylum.

>>8937320
>>8937337
in TP's case, they added things they thought the US would like, like Phantom Zant being visually inspired on the Leia hologram from A New Hope, and for some reason in their heads Spaghetti Westerns are still "a thing popular in America" and not an artifact of 60's Italy.

And of course, the clear Lord of the Ring movies visual inspiration.

>>8937375
>t. Reddit Waker fag

>>8937553
You sure do know a lot about Reddit. May I suggest going back?

>>8937413
Hidden Village showdown was cool though.

>>8937734
Oh, absolutely. I actually love those movies, so the theme being a reference to For a Few Dollars More and have the shoot out made me wish the game could've done that setpiece at least one more time.

>>8935775
>long hair
>chainmail bad
What? TP is his best look. Stop being a retard.

Most zelda games are pretty decent, mid at worst. I dont think I've ever felt a zelda game was 'bad' per se, but my definition of a bad game is probably different than that of the kind of person who nitpick a lot of the shit in this thread. Only ones I didn't much care for were zelda 2 (I just don't care to waste time on its bs difficulty desu, but it was decent with an easy patch- say what u want, I got no shame) and gba fsa (I played it solo on the 3ds remake, but it would def be at least sorta fun with multi-player). Havent played both yet, MM will always be my favorite. All the others are either good or decent to me. But, then again, I haven't played a zelda game in years. I experienced all these games in my childhood and teen years, so if I played them for the first time nowadays, I'd prob classify more of them as mid or mediocre. In general, I just think the old style of zelda games is kinda archaic at worst or just been done before at best, so the series definitely needs to be something different than all that stuff moving forward, whether that's botw-esque shit or just a new spin on the old formula thst goes beyond just "oot with X gimmick." I still would enjoy a new zelda game that uses the old formula, but it wouldn't be as memorable.

Why do people complain TP's Hyrule Field is empty when Ocarina's field is way emptier and the entirety of Wind Waker is emptier.

>>8934058
Twilight Princess is fucking amazing though, albeit too easy at times

it needed to 1. come out after majora's mask, and 2. get a sequel

>>8938126
it… did come out after MM?

>>8938126
it was gonna get a sequel but they shot it down
also it came out 6 years after majora

>>8938140
HA

HA

HAH

>>8938126
Presumably you mean come out after MM instead of Wind Waker? No, huge mistake. Yet another Zelda game set around Medieval style Hyrule would’ve felt way too samey and repetitive. Wind Waker’s setting was a welcome change-up.

>>8935636
This is bait but here we go
>Exploration is real.
Sailing for long periods of time on a barren with little to nothing to actually do isn't exploration
>Dungeons are good.
WW has easily the most braindead dungeons of any 3D Zelda

>>8934058
GC/Wii is retro now? Whelp. I'm old.

>>8938245
Same. I was in college during the main sixth gen years but those were some great years and I have fond memories from back then.

>>8938209
TP was what people wanted to follow MM, but we got instead Reddit Waker a shitty game toddler tier difficulty and art style
Reddit Waker is the reason why Zelda turned from a franchise that appeals to both children and adults to a franchise that appeals to children and manchildren

>>8938254
I see.

>>8938209
Wind Waker's sales (compared to previous games and itself's own projected sales) say otherwise. I was on the IGN forums at the time as well in a school game club, and from at least those experiences people HATED Wind Waker upon reveal and after release, and lambasted Four Sword and Minish Cap by proxy due to "Powerpuff Link",

>https://www.gamespot.com/articles/gdc-07-aonuma-reflects-on-zelda/1100-6167134/

>>8938209
>huge mistake.
Wind Waker was critically panned, and it was rushed out the door unfinished.

it would have been a HUGE OPPOSITE OF MISTAKE, dummy

>>8938278
To each his own I guess. I was 12 when OoT came out and it never clicked with me. At 17, I was all in on the GameCube and Wind Waker. Still my favorite 3D Zelda game and Nintendo console.

>>8938280
It wasn’t critically panned.

>>8938281
>I was 12 when OoT came out and it never clicked with me.
your opinions on this series are fucking worthless, holy shit

>>8938289
What? I was literally the perfect age to enjoy Ocarina at the time.

>>8938286
it was, Wind Waker is one of the weakest selling Zelda games, and the backlash it got for the artstyle was palpable

>>8938295
It got good reviews at the time. What do you think “critically panned” means?

TP was the best game in the franchise everybody who says it sucks is a Reddit nigger

>>8938293
...and you got filtered.
why are you even on /vr/ bro?

>>8938312
It just wasn’t my thing nor was the N64 overall. How old were you in 1998?

>>8938314
Waiting on your answer, anon. I know you’re still here.

>>8938281
I was 8 years old when OoT came out admitedly, and 11~12 when TWW was released and my own personal take was "but Zelda games are always good!" (I wasn't aware the CDi games existed, but I had played OoT, MM, LADX and the Oracle games in that order)

But back then, I had also just gone dial up internet and I remember also the ammount of hatred online about TWW, and also on the schoolyard calling it "gay".

I remember a website, the Odyssey of Hyrule, genuinely thinking it wasn't going to be a game with actual gameplay but a Dragon's Lair type of game (it seems the guy didn't believe it was actual in-engine graphics). The website was pretty big at the time, I used to go on there daily but man, he despised TWW and his opinion echoed on many other of those old Zelda websites and phpBB forums.

At the time, nobody of us knew what "tech demo" meant but people were pissed they "changed the graphics" from the Link vs Ganon tech demo, pointing at that as the game they wanted.

>>8938391
it was a bait and switch in the truest capacity

>>8938407
Not really, anon.

>>8938407
>>8938410
I'll just say, the developers were simultaneously aware and tone deaf when they decided to actually hide the artistic direction they had chosen to go for the game from Miyamoto until it would've been too late for him to tell them to not do that, as he was busy overseeing Mario Sunshine and Metroid Prime at the time.

>>8934058
Better than the bowel movement they named Wind Waker, anon

>>8937674
Kek

>>8938427
Gonna need a source on that. I guarantee nothing was “hidden” from Miyamoto.

>>8938505
>https://www.zeldadungeon.net/the-wind-wakers-visual-style-kept-secret-from-miyamoto/
>“When we were first working on the toon shaded Link, and that graphic representation of the Hyrule world, because it was such a drastic change, we actually kept it a secret from Mr. Miyamoto in the beginning. We had actually recently shown an example of what the next Zelda might look like, based on the ‘Ocarina of Time’ graphic style, and because this direction was so different, we knew that Mr. Miyamoto wouldn’t approve it as it. So, I worked with my team to at least get it to a point where a battle sequence between Link and a Moblin would actually work in this world, and then that was the first time that we brought it to Mr. Miyamoto. That was only time we felt comfortable bringing it to Mr. Miyamoto.

It’s not as though we were consciously keeping it a secret, but when Mr. Miyamoto would say, ‘Hey, you got anything to show me?’ I would kind of just push him off, and buy time as much as I could. But, at the same time, I think Mr. Miyamoto also understood that we were working on creating something, and just weren’t ready to show it to him yet. Honestly, I don’t know how well we kept it a secret anyway.”

>>8938515
In the end, I’m glad they did. Miyamoto’s instincts were wrong when it came to removing Rosalina from Galaxy 2. Her story is what made the original Galaxy special.

>>8938520
It really depends on your opinion. I like Wind Waker and all, but it is true it caused a hit to the series' sales. Sometimes I wonder how it would've been if it was celshaded anime in the style of late 90's affairs, like what Mega Man Legends tried to do, or the Tales of games did as well, rather than the 60's anime movie style Wind Waker ended up going for. Would sales been more generous? Would've people been less angry? If anything, this thread shows to this day there's people who feel betrayed by Nintendo, especially since Zelda was one of those key pieces to defend yourself in the schoolyard after the "little brother's lunchbox" comment basically killed the GC's rep, and even led to the indigo console to stop being the main console in favor of platinum.

>>8938520
Listen man you're wrong here. That's over a decade different. Like fuck off honestly. Miyamoto was a genius and I wish he still had control of zelda during windwaker

>>8938541
Honestly, I would've rather Koizumi to be in charge of Zelda rather than Aonuma.

>>8938528
Wind Waker remains my favorite 3D Zelda but I get that it wasn’t what people expected. I’ll say this: Even though the development time was cut short and some content is missing, it still feels like there was a unique vision with Wind Waker. The story is well told and ties in nicely with Ocarina. Twilight Princess feels like they played it too safe.

>>8938541
There’s no right or wrong answer. There’s plenty to love about Wind Waker. Also this >>8938545. Koizumi should’ve been given the reigns to Zelda.

>>8938410
>hey here is that thing you love isn't it great?
>oh btw here is the actual game, FUCK YOU

>>8938549
Too many people treat TP like its dogshit when it just isn't.
Is it weird that I think Windwaker is a better game, but I prefer to spend time in twilight princess more? Because thats where I fall. I like sailing I like the artstyle. But I really just can't play windwaker anymore. TP's atmosphere is just stronger to me. I wish that these games could have been one game that got care and attention rather than both being rushed.

>>8938520
dude is never wrong about Zelda games however, FUCK YOU

>>8938553
The tech demo was just a tech demo. It’s not like they promised it as the next Zelda game and scrapped it. Here’s something else I don’t understand: Ocarina and Majora’s Mask were both very clearly supposed to look stylized like a cartoon or anime. It’s just that the hardware limitations of the N64 didn’t allow them to fully realize that. Why people think those games are supposed to represent a “realistic” looking Zelda is beyond me.

>>8938547
If we go by what Aonuma said in GDC 07 that WW nearly put the whole franchise on ice, I felt there was a lot of pressure from the suits (as well as NoA, per Nakano's account) to play it safe and deliver exactly to a T what people asked for.

>>8938549
Sometimes I wonder why they don't her Koizumi and a smaller team make a normal Zelda game in the style of OoT while Aonuma still focuses on BotW2.

Koizumi also did one of the best DKC games, "Jungle Beat" but nobody played it thinking it was a Konga rythim game rather tham a platformer because of the bongo controller.

>>8938557
TP is just a well rounded game, Wind Waker is a fucking techn demo rushed cut content gobblegook for your kid nephew, if you like it you're castrated it's SHIT

>>8938563
>Ocarina and Majora’s Mask were both very clearly supposed to look stylized like a cartoon or anime
oh yeah, LOL, those redeads, and the deadhand, and the lizardfos, and the stalfos, and the go fuck yourself you're an ignoramus who talks out of his ass, and

>>8938567
Yes, 100% they’re meant to look stylized but the N64 could only produce blocky, angular character models.

>>8938520
>a generic cartoon fairy godmother character is what made a game special
reevaluate your life dude

>>8938563
I've noticed burgers think of OoT and MM as "realistic" games. You're right they were limited by the hardware, but when I first saw the artwork on magazines and the manual, to me OoT looked like Slayers with a small dash of Peter Pan while Majora's Mask looked like Slayers meets Hellboy. I'm hoping for a mod for the PC port of OoT that goes for anime cellshade, to truly bring Nakano's art to life. OoT3D got close but was gimped by that console's own limitations.

>>8938573
Yep, absolutely it did. It added unexpected depth to a Mario game and makes it stand out. Rosalina’s Storybook is very memorable.

>>8938563
You're being autistic about what the word realistic means. The tech demo isn't realism either. But honestly I have a feeling you already knew this and are just farming.

>>8938583
It probably depends on how old you were when Wind Waker came out. If you were a clueless teen, you probably thought it looked like a “baby game”. If you were a bit older, it was obvious that Nintendo was going for a Miyazaki/Ghibli feel with Wind Waker.

>>8938574
Nobody knows what any of that shit is and no ''burgers''(nice insult for no reason) did not think it was 'realistic'. You don't know what people are talking about and exclusively see the world in black and white.

>>8938586
Your post has nothing to do with mine at all.
>it was obvious
How condescending.

>>8938590
It was extremely obvious if you’d seen even one Studio Ghibli movie prior to 2003.

>>8938587
This very website, let alone this specific board, has always called OoT and MM as "realistic" (for N64 standards) and that Zelda games should aim for more "realism" in the style of Skyrim and Dark Souls (especially during the height of the popularity of those two games).

>>8938593
>>8938593
Yeah I'm sure man. I don't really care about whatever hazy halfbrained memory you have of getting into arguments on 4chan over the artstyle of Zelda over a decade ago. Your entire argument is a bizarre tangent that has nothing to do with the discussion.

>>8938597
It was on response to >>8938574 about OoT and MM being visually designed to look like a cartoon or anime, but were gimped by the N64

>>8938604
I don't really care to be honest because you're arguing in bad faith. Are you saying that WW's artstyle is a logical continuation of OoT? Because not even the developers would say that. You're using the word realistic like it's a cut label and not a spectrum you lean more or less into. By that standard yeah I have no problem saying OoT is more realistic than WW. I Can't believe I have to even tell you this. Nobody is saying OoT looks lifelike. Stop arguing in bad faith. You have a very bad hot take.

>>8938609
Two different approaches. Like that anon said, Ocarina’s concept art resembles anime like Slayer whereas Wind Waker is clearly Miyazaki inspired.

>>8938609
What the fuck are you talking about? You're either the one arguing in bad faith or blind as a bat.
What I'm arguing is a hypothetical scenario. >>8938616 got the right idea except for the source, I am not saying Wind Waker is Miyazaki inspired, rather, it's inspired of pic related (incidentally the same inspiration source as Samurai Jack, no black outlines and all, hence child Jack and Toon Link looking identical). Up until relatively recently, The Little Prince and the Eight Headed Dragon was unknown unless you were very deep into historical anime circles, or an animation buff. People didn't recognize the style for Wind Waker as this, and just called it for babies.

But at the time, people DID knew other shit as their anime gateway drug, such as Slayers and Outlaw Star. What I'm arguing is, would people have accepted Wind Waker better had it's character design looked like something out of a Tales of game (more modern anime character on celshaded 3D)? The artwork for the previous Zelda games looked very anime as-is, although more period accurate than Wind Waker's 1963 throwback.

I personally think people would've been more lenient on Wind Waker had it not gone for the Little Prince-inspired aesthetic.

>>8938635
>I personally think people would've been more lenient on Wind Waker had it not gone for the Little Prince-inspired aesthetic.

You’re probably right, but man I love that look. Anyone that calls it a “baby game” is a moron.

>>8938638
I don't disagree, the game's visual look is quite unique. One of my favorite cartoons of the time was in fact Samurai Jack, so even then I could see the similarity between Toon Link and child Jack.

>>8938635
Anon, this is an excellent post and the reason /vr/ is still worth coming to. I love knowledgeable, nerdy posters like yourself. Keep it up.

>>8938572
all graphics are stylized, but NO OoT is not a cartoon you daft fuck

>>8938302
Its a zelda game, of course its gonna get good reviews.
See Breath of the Tech demo, reviewers heralding as the most incredible thing in the world.

>>8938675
Disregard the word 'cartoon' then. OoT’s characters are clearly anime inspired.

>>8938579
It did and miyamotos a giant faggot. Galaxy 2 is was way worse as a result and he basically killed the mario RPGs forever.

>>8938675
By realism, do you mean actual photorealism like what western games were many times trying to achieve? Or simply "could be doable IRL"? The environments and architecture sure, looked more real and less stylized than Wind Waker, but they still look in the artwork out of any 90's OVA, but entirely possible IRL unlike, say, the strange shape of Ganon's Tower in WW.

>>8938635
You entirely missed the point of my post good job.
>>8938652
How the fuck did you not already know all that shit already

>>8938695
I’ve never been a big anime nerd so I had no idea that’s where the inspiration for Wind Waker came from. Back in 2003 I noted the similarity to Samurai Jack, but didn’t know the root source.

>>8938638
>Anyone that calls it a “baby game” is a moron.
It's still a baby's game, I've never played a game as insultingly easy as Wind Waker.

>>8938706
Don't bother, he's being a massive faggot treating this as "some common knowledge" out of pettiness when the common weeb in reality only follows the anime of the season or the most popular shonen rather than look back into the medium's history.

None of the people who praise WW ever actually go beyond its superficial elements to be honest

>>8938752
What is there to really hate about it? I explored the world, went into dungeons, pushed blocks around, found keys, etc. just like all the other Zelda games from that time. Yes it sucks that the Triforce shard hunt replaced some extra dungeons, but I still enjoy the total package.

>>8938745
I don't disagree with Wind Waker's dificulty being lacking, I found Hero Mode in HD to be a great addition, I just wish it allowed to be made even harder with the Ganon amiibo like in TPHD or something.

>>8938761
Oops, meant for >>8938752

>>8938767
You did the right quote, but he deleted his message it seems.

>>8938768
Guess so. Anyway, I’ve really never minded Wind Waker’s fairly easy difficulty. It makes for a breezy summertime replay.

>>8938684
that's worse
fuck anime
fuck japan
fuck you

>>8934345
minus the 2D GBC/GBA games, of course.

>>8938784
>fuck Japan
>in a thread about a videogame series made in Japan by Japanese people
>posting on fucking 4chan, a website made to discuss anime and Japanese culture
>and even specifies Japanese stuff is considered on-topic on all boards
I never understood how you normalfags even ended in this website.

TP just looks cool
that link design is the definitive one for me.

>>8938863
kys

>>8938863
not him but liking japanese stuff is the normalfag thing. normalfags love anime and all that crap now. its all so mindless. its pretty laughable for you to use the word normalfag like that. skincrawling.

>>8938868
>a Leafy zoomer
Good god.

>>8938870
Nah, normalfags only care about the popular mainstream shonen of the week, like MHA and they watch it only as a social activity to have something to talk with their classmates or friends. You'll never see any of those faggots willingly checking out something like Hell Teacher Nube, GaoGaiGar or Tenchi Muyo unless there's some controversy like a bad netflix adaptation and they'll watch one maybe two episodes and call it done.

>>8938867
It's the best 3D model by far. The best "artwork" link is from LTTP. for obvious reasons.

>>8938881
I kinda enjoy the redone version of ALttP's art by Nakano. The original is still peak SOVL, but I find something also charming about Nakano's take on it (as well as his Oracle art)

>>8938881
I prefer the white leggings to bare legs but to each his own.

>>8938870
>normalfags love anime and all that crap now.
this, it really pisses me off because now i cannot like it either

>>8938881
Seeing Zelda 1 Link in 3D in Hyrule Warriors was my favorite.

>>8938905
They don't like anime, though. They only watch MHA and what else? Maybe something "edgy" (by their standards) like Demon Slayer "ironically"? They don't genuinely like anime. They're trend hoppers watching an on-going show to socialize.

>>8938961
If you haven't seen the uncut version of Outlaw Star, you cannot say you like animu IMO.
It's the standard I set for faggots.

>>8938985
I did though. You see, I'm not american, I had to download it fan subbed in my language back then. I always felt you were lucky to have that on Toonami, but our Toonami had Yu Yu Hakusho, so it balances out.

>>8939026
You'd think but in America the Toonami airings decided to cut the hot springs episode so.

>>8939032
Why are TV standards for animation over there so uptight anyway? I heard about Saint Seiya over there having all blood changed to blue so it'd be sweat and a bunch of other weird edits.

Also soundtracks, I never understood why old localizers like 4kids even bothered with that, seems like a waste of resources to me.

>>8939026
Toonami censored OS for obvious reasons. That's why I said uncensored. Lots of kids saw Outlaw Star censored.
You MUST be a proper lover of anime to have seen the uncensored version, or that of YYH, or of Tenchi or of Rurouni Kenshin, FotNS, or any of the 60s-90s shows.

>>8939057
I basically grew on those shows man, a lot of them were on public TV when I was growing up. It saddens me stuff like Ghost Sweeper Mikami and Hell Teacher Nube are forgotten and get zero discussion online.

>>8938961
Yes. They do genuinely like anime. You are in such a bubble its unreal.

>>8939106
I mean with all these shitty layers of irony and "haha I'm such a scum lowlife weeaboo because I like [mainstream shounen] haha such a nerd haha" I see it on the same level as girls pretending to be "nerds" just because they watch Marvel movies but never picked up a comicbook in their lives.

>>8934058
The dungeons are fun and it still looks good

>>8939109
You gotta stop man. Jesus.

>>8939069
They used to. We've been flooded by people that never lurk.