/vr/ - Retro Games

>>8905542
More like the Archer of gaming. Or whatever other series overstayed its welcome.

No, Citizen Kane was hated and shat on by audiences and critics alike when it came out, since it was a poorly disguised smear attack. It wasn't until the 50's when academics started praising it as a great movie, long after the people it targeted were dead.
MGS was wildly popular on release, and went on to be one of the best selling games on the console. You didn't see people hating it until around 2008 or so, when MGS4 came out and people started hating Kojima.

>>8905542
*James Bond

Kojima is the Godard of anime.
Hack meme director with brainlet political commentary

Kojima is the Godard of vidya.
Hack meme director with brainlet political commentary

The Chronicles of Riddick of gaming.

>>8905558
and now people are strating to like MGS4 so MGS4 is the true citizen kane of videogames

saved by the translator

Yeah it's a movie game

>>8905594
MGS4 is probably the one single game that did the most damage to a franchise in the history of games.

>>8905542
Found a sealed copy in my $50 yard sale buy this week.

>>8905657
Not even close lol

>>8905580
It was just riding the conspiracy wave of the 90s and early 00s. Same with Deus Ex. It's just now conspiracies are part of mainstream politics.

>>8905694
Yeah it is. MGS2 is the peak of videogames and MGS4 did everything it could to undo it.

>>8905687
Nice. Now get it sealed in an acrylic case and sell it on ebay for $3,000.

>>8905542
Can you tell me what you liked about Citizen Kane, OP?

>>8905542
rose... bud?

>>8905789
>Rose...bud

>>8905657
Never heard of Sonic Adventure anon?

Does anyone happen to have a download that has both discs combined handy? Not gonna be at my desktop for a few days

>>8906183
You mean a relatively popular Dreamcast game that got a sequel and was even ported a few times to newer platforms?

>>8905542
yes both are overrated pieces of shit

stories without dept that rely on on flashy gimmicks, checks out

>>8905597
Is this true?

>>8905542
I, Robot (1984) is the Citizen Kane of video games. Technically ahead of its time, but ultimately only of historical interest.

>>8905580
Godard is not a hack, Truffaut is

>>8905657
resident evil 4 would like a word with you.

>>8905841
Given how badly he got his ass blown out...

>>8905708
>MGS2 is the peak of movie games
fixed that for you redditor

>>8907068
RE4 saved the series from dying
trash games like Code Shitonica, REtrash and Zero/10 were a pile of shit compared to the PS1 triology

>>8905542
Still has a shit final boss.

>>8907530
Which one would you consider the final boss? If you’re talking about the tunnel escape then yes I agree.

>>8905708
>MGS2 is the peak of videogames
LOL

>>8907501
>RE4 saved the series from dying
No it didn't, in fact, it was part of the reason why the series almost died.
RE was doing just fine really. CV did well enough on the Dreamcast to warrant a Director's Cut style rerelease and its PS2 port did well. Biohazard Fire Zone was popular in arcades, the new movie was finishing production (and would go on to be a global hit), and in 2003 Outbreak would sell a million units despite being a spin-off that relied on online infrastructure which couldn't be used in Europe.
The issue was entirely with Shinji Mikami and his idea to make an exclusivity deal with Nintendo for his RE games. RE0 was always going to be a Nintendo exclusive, but it and REmake were a sign of things to come. RE0 was outperformed by Outbreak, REmake only did 300K more with 1.3 million. Then Capcom had to wait until 2005 for RE4 to come out, and Mikami had the gall to say he's kill himself if it got ported to PS2, and guess what? It fucking bombed, 1.6 million, and only when it got ported to PS2 did they make any money off of it.

Had Mikami not been so upset at Sony the franchise would've been doing just fine. Hell, I imagine RE would fared much better as an Xbox exclusive than a GCN exclusive, as every game, from ports of 2, 3, and CV, to the three brand new games, all failed.

>>8905597
>>8906780
No it isn't, it's a meme purpetuated by people who don't want to give any credit to Kojima.
Jeremy Blaustein is the guy who wrote the "Miserable little pile of secrets" exchange in SotN and actually got upset when people made fun of it, but because he's an egotist he acts like he was a genius of comedy in that moment and got upset when the PSP version of SotN did a far more faithful TL and didn't get made fun of as much.
As for his work on MGS1, it just shows he didn't really know what he was doing, he changed random shit purely because he didn't know certain things, and acts like he wrote all of MGS1. Does the same shit with Silent Hill, where he goes online and pretends he wrote the games.
He's also friends with Agness Kaku, the translator of MGS2, a woman who many suspect didn't even know Japanese when she translated the game and completely missed many lines in her translation.
>Kojima wrote: "You ghosts of our former government!" Agnes Kaku went with "Farewell".

>>8907729
what is it with these gen X-er types and vainly clinging onto past ''accomplishments'' decades later that they only managed to have in the first place because of how little competition there was back then

>>8907729
blaustein is an asshole but he did a decent job with mgs1.

>>8907729
>first time
>nostalgic
?

>>8907501
ok REmake and 0 arent great but code veronica was fine and RE4 didnt really saved the franchise but kinda killed it only for the name to remain as resident evil games became a completely different things and the serie never recovered from it and only recently have we got 2 games that are survival horror (RE7 and RE2remake) and they went back to action right after.

>>8905708
They are both good, and attempting to explain the plot threads left out at the end of mgs2 isn't bad nor does it take away "muh cliffhanger ending" that mgs2fags seem to love. Just don't play mgs4 if you want to jerk off in the corner about how smart you are for enjoying a half finished story.

>>8905542
>The Citizen Kane of gaming.


Get it? Because it's a movie.

>>8908147
>mgs4
>good

>>8905542
>gets a disproportionate amount of praise
>really only great in a few places

>>8908147
Low IQ.

>>8907764
>Mantis's mother gives her life away to give birth to a child who was viewed as a monster by the father.
>Mantis gives his life away to help Snake, whom he considers a monster.
Seems like neither you, nor Blaustein, understand what a parallel is.

>>8905597
>>8907729
>>8907761
I never understood why Kojima-haters latch on to Blaustein and Kaku as proof that "Kojima's a hack" or whatever. Regardless of how accurate or how much their work deviated from Kojima's Japanese script, they're ultimately derivatives of Kojima's work. At best, they probably snuck-in one or two lame jokes or wordplays if they were truly accurate, or at worst, it means you really can't blame some of the worst lines on Kojima alone. Not to mention they both had people like Scott Dolph and Satoshi Hirano overseeing their work to make sure they didn't deviate too much.

It's a moot point either way, cause Kojima was popular in Japan way before MGS1, where most of the people played his work without the filter of a translator (but I don't expect EOPs on 4chan to comprehend that).

>>8905657
>The game made by platinum that took them 9 months felt more like a metal gear game than the actual mainline Metal Gear game.
MGS4 continues to be a mistake.

>>8905708
>MGS2 is the peak of videogames
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>8908241
Yes
>>8908276
Not an argument

>>8908838
How is he wrong?

>>8907734
Agness Kaku: "MGS2 has a garbage story and Kojima is not a true writer who wouldn't last a day in the TV writers meeting room!"
Also Agness Kaku: "ASHTUALLY! Everything good about MGS2 was becausse of ME! The Japanese was not as good. Trust me, you dumb EOP!"

Also, fuck Jeremy Blaustein for encouraging this stupid bitch too. No wonder he got ghosted after MGS1.

>>8907704
>RE was doing just fine really
no it didn't you zoomer retard
you were even born back then but REtrash and Zero/10 flopped on the Shitcube and Capcom didn't even bother porting them to the PS2 or PC like it did with their successful games such as RE4 (the demand for it was crazy), Okami, Killer 7 and Viewtiful Joe (P.N.03 is another garbage game that no one wanted it ported too)
classic RE was dying and Capcom tried to innovate it with new ideas lie, the multiplayer in Outbreak games or the third person camera in Dead Aim (zoomers like you think 4 was the first to do that)
4 as the perfect mix between survival horror and action adventure it was an atmospheric horror masterpiece and the pinnacle of video gaming and till this day it remains the most popular game in the series and regarded by many as the best game of all time
if 4 never happened then RE would die just like Dino Crisis and Capcom got lucky with their new goldmine Monster Hunter around that time so they were no longer relying on RE to keep them from going bankrupt

>>8910170
>(the demand for it was crazy)
The demand for every RE game was crazy retard. RE4 sold about as much as REmake and it was only ported because Capcom didn't want Mikami to fucking ruin them. That's the reason you schizo.

>>8907963
>RE2remake
7 is a walking simulator, and every hypocrite redditor faggot criticizing 4 for changing the formula of classic RE while praising bland and boring Outlast ripoff walking simulator RE7 that have nothing in common at all with classic RE deserves the rope
>RE2remake
you mean the action remake of 2? same as the above double faced redditor cunts will praise as a survival horror masterpiece while claiming 4 is not a horror game despite them having more in common than with the original 2

>>8910172
>The demand for every RE game was crazy
no one begged for REtrash or Zero/10
>RE4 sold about as much as REmake
wrong nigger, it sold more despite coming on the end of the Shitcube life span while REtrash came at the peak of the console
>it was only ported because Capcom didn't want Mikami to fucking ruin them
LMAO the absolute state of REtrash contrarian
4 was the hottest thing on the gaming industry back then EVERYONE wanted to play it but it was stuck on the Shitcube, thankfully Capcom smelled the profit and ported it's successful game to a successful console while REtrash remained on the Shitcube
cope as you want but that's the truth, no one gives a fuck about REtrash
even if you go to Steam and see the remaster you'll notice only small percentage of people beat the game, they just bought it because of the brand name they thought it was a good game like 4 only to be disappointed

>>8910190
>bunch of baseless claims with buzzwords
Alright, guess I win. Be sure to type another essay saying a whole load of nothing, retard.
I accept your concession and all that

>>8910194
>no argument
>i-i-i win!!!
keep seething loser, 4 is king and REtrash is garbage
now fuck off find a new thread to be a contrarian at

>>8907734
Because twitter is their main source of grifting and they depend on the character they construct of themselves.

>>8910325
I don't think it's necessarily a Twitter thing. Jeremy Blaustein has always been a bit of a prick. I remember he appeared as a guest on a podcast some years ago in the late 2000's and most of it was him trashing all of his former co-workers while absolving himself of any responsibilities.

There are quite few creators that were a big deal in their day, but then felt from grace for whatever reason, so they cling into whatever former glory they used to have as proof that they were someone at some point.

>>8905657
RE4

>>8907963
>REmake
>not great
>code veronica
>fine
there's a place you can go

>>8910381
>REtrash
>not garbage
take the e-celeb cock off your mouth and try playing that piece of shit instead of taking their word for granted

>>8910441
You going to point out why REmake is bad or are you just gonna keep acting like an 8 year old that just discovered swear words?

>>8905542
>The Citizen Kane of gaming.
Yeah it's the game for people who have never played any other game.

>>8910465
It was a AAA game before AAA games were a thing. I don't think there was any other game from the same period that had the same production values and attention-to-detail that MGS1 had. The closest thing was the Final Fantasy VII (which had zero voice acting) and the first two Resident Evil games.

>>8910484
Yup. People can piss and moan all they want MGS is a movie game but even in terms of gameplay, MGS totally destroyed competition with its engaging puzzle solving and arcade mechanics (i.e. time attacking and ranking system - later on expanded on VR Missions) and the complex boss fights in a 3D setting for the first time. There was nothing like it at the time and it would take a very long time for other vidya to catch up to it.

>>8910551
Even as a moviegame, I don't think there were any game that had cutscenes quite as elaborate as MGS1 prior to it. Final Fantasy VII relies way too much on pre-rendered videos and the cutscenes in the Resident Evil games are pretty basic for the most part.

>>8909885
well, Reddit Gear Solid 2 is not a video game it's a movie game
learn the difference

>>8910613
>Reddit Gear Solid 2
Opinion discarded.

>>8910458
>terrible plot (although that's true for most RE games)
>shitty controls
>shitty fixed camera
>movement is somehow slower than the original RE1
>the tedious crimson heads
>inferior remixed OST (the original will always remain the best)
>the combat is so bad it makes SH1 combat looks good in comparison
>toddler tier puzzles
>shitty boring characters
the only thing this piece of shit got going for it is the graphics, literally a tech demo for Zero

>>8910629
>no argument
i accept your concession

>admitting this pile of shit "game" is really a fucking movie
Self-aware nugamers.

>>8905542
>>8905558

Sonic CD is the real Citizen Kane of gaming. A shitty boring game with zero cohesion that everyone pretends was a misunderstood genius work and "revolutionary".

>>8910661
funny thing is Reddit Kane was criticized back in the 40's for being a documentary and not a movie
same way Reddit Gear Solid is a movie and not a game

>>8908887
oh, it's (you). put on a trip so I can filter all your posts already.

>>8910374
Fair point, RE4 is a big contender.

>>8910643
What argument did you have? All you did was called MGS2 "reddit" as if that means anything.

>pure gameplay mgs: neat collection of stealth puzzles, gets mentioned once in awhile in hidden gem lists
>mgs: popculture phenomenon that will go down in history
Even with all the trouble it brought would anyone really trade it all in for something that would probably have been forgotten about in the release year?

4 hours of cutscenes. If we only knew how bad it would get.

>>8910964
>What argument did you have?
Reddit Gear Solid 2 being a movie game which is true
can you refute this?

>>8905542
I remember watching an old video that called Altered Beast the Citizen Kane of gaming

>>8905542
But what's the MGS of cinema?

>>8911170
The Rock. Unironically.

>>8911183
Good choice.

>>8911170
Like 20 different movies share that bill, Kojima ripped off a bunch of hollywood shit, with Escape from NY being the most obvious one. The fact that Snake answer many questions with another question is such a glaring quirk once you notice it.

Close, but no cigar.

>>8911086
And what's wrong being a"moviegame"?

>>8911198
>The fact that Snake answer many questions with another question is such a glaring quirk once you notice it.
It was a deliberate writing choice to help the player memorize shit.

I can't take anyone who says this game was good serious.

>>8911206
>NES port
Shit taste.

>>8911086
>DURRR CUTSCENES BAD BECAUSE I HAVE A LOW ATTENTION SPAN

>>8905594
EWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

>>8911309
They are bad because they are not video games

>>8911363
>I only care about the joystick wiggling and button smashing.

>>8905594
>>8905657
MGS4 was good, it sold well, reviewed well, and pretty much everyone liked it until contrarians took over and started complaining about a game most of them probably never even played because they're 14 year old zoomer faggots who don't own PS3's

If you want to cry about absurdly long cutscenes let's talk about Persona 5

>>8905542
mgs2 is reminds me more a blazing saddles sort of game imo

>>8905542
no that would be metal gear on msx

>>8911198
There's nothing wrong with answering questions with questions

>>8911429
People that like MGS4 are unironically low iq or don't truly care for MGS.

>>8911907
Questions?

>>8911909
Imagine thinking video game preferences is a measurement of IQ.

>>8905558
>Citizen Kane was hated and shat on by audiences and critics alike when it came out, since it was a poorly disguised smear attack.
They were right.

>>8906183
Have you?

>>8910681
Documentaries are a genre of movie, dummy.

>>8905708
Correct.

>>8911429
P5 doesn't have long cutscenes. It has long stretches of retarded, nonsensical dialogue that serve no purpose. The same dialogue is copy/pasted every other moment

>>8911258
Ironic

>>8912317
The original Metal Gears were on the MSX2. The NES versions were cashgrabs made by a different Konami department and had nothing to do with Kojima.

>>8905558
What did it attack?

>>8907729
His translation is good contrarian. Even that change was good. See TTS for a translation without Blaustein, its shit

>>8910178
you clearly never played them,OG 2 was as much action as the remake.

>>8905542
I wish more people would play MG1 and MG2. Now I know secondaryfags and Generation Z fags would just read look up some fanmade wiki, but they're both fun games and they're part of the lore. Saw lots of people dismiss what I told them about BB because
>MGS4 BB is not an asshole

>>8913049
>MGS4
That game ruined the series

>>8913049
I once suggested someone on a thread on /v/ to start with the Metal Gear games and a dozen of faggots had a meltdown over that telling me they're not canon to the story.

Was the sniper rifle aiming supposed to be the worst thing ever on purpose?

>>8913049
MG 1 kind of shit but MG 2 is good

>>8912280
>hey anon what's your favorite movie?
>oh it's the WW2 documentary by national geographic!
kys

>>8913028
>OG 2 was as much action as the remake.
no it wasn't you faggot

>>8913049
>bruuuh rember that part in MGS2 when colonel tells you to turn off PS2? that was ahead of it's time!

> pacman with guns
MGS was outclassed mechanics wise by stealth games way before its release even. It just made PS1 babies poopie their pants over the cutscenes, just like FF7 (also garbage)

>>8905558
>it was a poorly disguised smear attack
Sounds like the divine comedy.

>>8913274
>I, too, parrot my opinions from misleading Razorfist videos.

>>8913285
Sorry for owning a PC before it became the normie thing, Snoy

>>8913294
Sorry that nobody outside your poor man's Dennis Miller of a wannabe-rockstar Youtuber gives a shit about Thief.

>>8913294
I have a great game for you, wageslave

>>8913326
I have no idea who the fuck you are talking about, I played MGS as a kid just like you and even then knew it was backtracky bullshit with stealth mechanics as simple as what console niggers deserve. I recently tried re-playing it because I had a fond memory or two, and dropped it on the third instance of "go back to the first facility, faggot"
Backtracky, stealth mechanics so basic they've been done on fucking 1980s home computers, cutscenes to shame some films (since overdone so it seems ok by comparison)

>>8913339
>Backtracky, stealth mechanics so basic they've been done on fucking 1980s home computers, c
It's almost as if Metal Gear Solid was a sequel to a pair of MSX2 games from the 80's.

>>8913348
Oh, cool, so there's a reason why it's so bad. Not an excuse though.

>>8905580
Godard haters are pseuds

>>8913358
>mario sucks because you can't shoot guns and drive cars

>>8913358
>It's bad because it's a sequel to an older game.

>>8913348
>>8913358
>>8913363
>>8913364

LOL the absolute cope
> these features bad
> ummm actually this badness is just loyalty to source
> okay still bad
> you just hate sequels!
MGS redittors or something else. inb4 "You need incredibly high IQ to enjoy MGS"

>>8913373
The popular million-selling game is not bad, you just suck at it.

>>8913384
Holy shit the mgsedditor actually went there. What is there to suck at in MGS? It's braindead pacman tier "Stealth", I beat it in a few days when my age was in the single digits.
> popular necessarily good
Truly, the mind of a generation

>>8913387
>implying mgs is stealth
then again i expect this level of autsim from insecure pc gaymers

>>8913392
> he didn't see the quotation marks
Correct, it's not stealth because it's no gameplay to speak of at all. Thanks for agreeing. Good night, redditor.

>>8913394
Reddit Derangement Syndrome.

Citizen Kane is a bad movie and I'm tired of pretending to like it

>>8913359
Godardfags are the ultimate faux-intellectuals.

>>8913392
>implying mgs is stealth
yes we know, Reddit Gear Solid is a movie with zero gameplay

>>8905558
I knew I would be pissed off by contrarians if I entered this thread. It only took two posts.

>>8913253
That's just another example of people missing out the point of MGS2 deconstructionism and praising it for he wrong reasons leading contrarians to call it pretentious like the le reddit MGS2 retard in this thread. It is kind funny how both opposites just end up revealing their low IQ when they fail to grasp what Kojima was attempting with MGS2.

>>8907495
>>8910178
>>8910613
>>8910681
>>8911086
>>8913394
>>8913707
>>8913394
>>8911086
>Yes, Mr Sherman. Everything you don't like is Reddit.

What is it about Kojima and the Metal Gear series that attracts so many haters and mentally ill idiots that seek to discredit as much as possible?

>>8911378
somebody shoot this guy

>>8913049
hate to say it but as good as mg2 is, it's kind of goofy and primitive in a way that I'm not sure if it would actually improve the story of mgs1 on a first run. It is worth playing though sure.

>>8914550
I emulated Metal Gear 1 & 2 immediately after finishing MGS1 back in the day and I was a bit disappointed that the events of those games were not as epic as the mission logs in MGS1 implied with that said. They leave out a lot of the sillier parts like the poisonous Zanzibar hamsters. Still, it's pretty how much MGS1 took from the MSX2 games, especially from Metal Gear 2, as pointed out here.
The Virgin MGS1
>Check the back of your CD case for Meryl's number."
The Chad Metal Gear 2
>The prisoner is using tap codes to spell out his frequency number. Use the chart in your manual.

>>8905542
More like
>Citizen Game of Kaning

>>8914169
>t. redditor

>>8906183
What a shit game

>>8913019
That line change shows he literally didn't understand what he was translating. Blaustein is a hack and people sucking his cock is the dumbest shit ever. He's also the reason SH2 and 3 can't be ported, since he was in charge of contracting the VAs

>>8914990
>He's also the reason SH2 and 3 can't be ported, since he was in charge of contracting the VAs
Pretty interesting that Castlevania: SOTN and MGS1 both had voice acting changes when they were remade on newer gen consoles. Makes me wonder if there were contract issues involving those games too.

>>8909916
goddamn the ego on these people. at best their role could be extended to being considered editors, but that’s all. besides, does no one remember how much of these games’ charm was their clumsy translation of Jap phrasing? regardless of people liking it, that’s a result of poor translation skills, not expertise…

>>8907729
>reference to one line backstory that no one is likely to make a connection to except nerds after the fact who've researched it
>punchy little morality tale
he overstepped his duties but it was a good edit.

>>8915441
Nigger, he's the guy translating it. He probably has to read the text over upwards of 10 times. He couldn't draw that connection and KNEW he was changing the text at that.

>>8915441
>>8915443
If "it feels too nostalgic" sounded weird in English, he could've easily went with "it feels very familiar" for the same effect and would've even worked better.

>>8915401
A translator is ultimately nothing more than a servant to the original author. In the best case scenario, they might add some cool one-liner or joke that wasn't in the original and in the worst case scenario, it also means that they also have to take responsibilities for any potential plot holes or awkward lines (e.g. "We've managed to avoid drowning"), but the big ideas ultimately belongs to the original author. The idea that Agness Kaku came up with the themes and political commentary by herself is laughable to anyone who knows the original Japanese MGS2 script.

>>8914990
>It's not a weak point It's a weakness

>>8915759
There's a difference between the two though. Weak point is used for material objects. Weakness is used for living things.

>>8915780
Character flaw sounds far less clunky

>>8915759
>It's not a weak point It's a weakness
That's just the fault of an overly literal translation.

>>8915815
I always wondered why they changed that line and not the part where Liquid Snake says Big Boss was in a coma when Solid and Liquid were made, when the original merely said Big Boss was infertile. Makes me wonder if they only changed the script due to royalties issue, as alluded here.>>8915016

>>8905594
The bosses were not as good as previous game. Most lacked personality of mgs3 or timing complexity of mgs 2 such as fatmans bomb ambushes, or the Fury coming home

>>8907701
Hard in mgs 2 is actually hard , my fingers still hurt trying to beat extreme on pc. Every boss can be done no damage if your timing is correct (Except when you and snake team up, that part is complete bullshit).